Some comments pointed out that Hanni is the grooviest dancer in NewJeans and I also agree with that! I put Haerin as an example because that segment was about balancing the very "accurate" girl group technique with groovy execution, which I think Haerin does best, but if you want to see the grooviest version of the dance you should definitely watch Hanni. I will start editing the Hybe bg ranking (Bts, Txt, Enhypen) soon - if you have any lesser known videos of any of the members that you feel like should be taken into consideration, feel free to link them below! I mean stuff outside of dance practices and other officially posted videos that I might have missed
I know it doesn't quite make sense considering they broke up but is there a chance you could add trainee a in the ranking? even if just in the comment section of the video.
@@callmereven I mostly paid attention to JJ and James, so I'm actually not really familiar with the whole group. I was definitely planning on analysising them, but now I feel like there isn't really a point (especially since some of them left the industry in general afaik)
It's crazy how groovy and not-groovy both have their respective appeal. Groovy is playful, all encompassing, infectious, flirty and juicy. Not groovy is sleek, swift, impeccable, deliberate and elegant. There's lots of passion in both, but with different charismas
such a good description. I see many people got a chance to shit on Kai , San in this video, Because they thought this video maker is criticizing them .
@@SadiaIslamShouki Thanks! At the end of the day people have preferences, the annoying thing is when some people feel the need to put down a different style in favor of their own, instead of letting every style coexist. Tons of wasted energy in saying how much one dislikes something, energy that can be spent on appreciating what one enjoys imo.
@@SadiaIslamShouki things as they are kai is too overhyped, just because he is from exo (one of the most popular grouop) overall his dance look striking because of his stage presence+facial expressions but he doesnt have a good technique
I think the reason why most kpop groups gave up on the groove is because it’s hard to be in sync to follow the groove, kpop dance are known for it’s unison and clean formation dances and grooving is very individualistic way of feeling the song through dance. That’s why most idol prefer sharp angles etc
I Agree. From what i see, the individualistic way that you mentioned is more supported when the member has their center time instead of throughout the entire choreo e
I think training has a lot to do with it as well, most Kpop dancers come into the company with limited dance experience and are given strict instructions to follow, this doesn't allow them to build a dance style or rhythm. When they are asked to freestyle they can't because they only know how to dance, they don't have personal rhythm. Similar to Ballet dancers who are taught technically and are made to abandon all rhythm.
Not really look at XG and a lot of dance crews who have less amount of training time even 2nd gen groups have groove I think it’s just what they prefer coz u can teach groove literally in hip hop and jazz
@@erosivy3832 have you ever tried teaching someone how to groove? It's so difficult especially when they have close to no dance experience in hip-hop. Kpop companies are not going to waste millions and years on groups for a "if". The best business decision is to teach technically so it can look balanced and in sync on stage. You have to remember most kpop entertainers aren't professional dancers and don't have a dance background so using XG or other groups isn't really helpful. Groove isn't needed in Kpop, so there's no need to spend time on perfecting it. Some people lack rhythm and that's it.
@@clo9767 half the members in NewJeans and XG aren't groovy. The only thing they have to give you that illusion is their music genre. We just left the Y2K takeover craze so a lot of Korean entertainment labels are taking advantage of this and taking influence from Black American/AA culture especially the 2000s/90s music and fashion. Either way my point is looking at K-pop as a whole from 1st gen to current 4th gen. A few rookie groups coming out with RnB influence music isn't changing a pattern I've observed for the decade I've been into K-pop and my knowledge of dance. I think you've completely misunderstood my points/argument or we just arent even near the same page of subject. Because I'm not focused on groups being insync, I'm focused on how dance genres and dance backgrounds have an impact on an idols dance career and how this ultimately affects the rest of the group. And more broadly, the Korean music industry.
as a trained dancer i’ve always enjoyed watching jhope dance because he just has the groove to him that is extremely hard for most dancers to achieve and it’s so satisfying to see him do it so effortlessly.
@@skyward7903 started street dancing at 12 years old I think (source: 'Mama' from BTS' 'Wings'). His groove is practically subconscious at this point, the 16 years of work really show in how effortless his dancing is.
@@kya7149 he is really good in groovy dances, it's a shame that Bighit focuses in popping, footwork and sharp moves with their other trainee's..If HYBE sent ENHYPEN in America to train, like TXT,Trainee A and &team, they will be definitely the best dance group in Kpop..
I think best example is Exo. Kai focuses on the sharpness, while Lay has that groove. They both have crazy good stage presence but very different styles.
I feel like Mark is both a combination of groove and technique but many people overlook how skillful he is since he moves so flowy and fun. His isolations are great but he never looses the fun element of every move. Mark is remarkable and about time people notice it. Second underrated dancer is definitely Jaemin , no one ever talks about his arm and upper body control which is pretty impressive but besides that he never forgets to give facial expressions and make the moves fit the rhythm and vibe of the song perfectly. He is making everything look effortless.
@@facts_in_fiction yes it is but groove is based in something else it is more emotion/feeling of the song driven while technical skills are sth you can learn through a lot of practice. I don’t believe groove can be taught the same way ,you have to feel it. Most of the time people just have it naturally.
I always watch Mark and Taeyong dance one after the other when I watch dance practices, because they're almost opposites and yet both so good, it's so interesting.
And what I llove about them is they have solidified their signature styles that u can distinguish them individually and yet they mesh into their groups so well. I love Ty's theatrics wheb he performs and Mark is such fun dancer. The moment Mark lets go and take the sexy route fully is going to be the end of al ot of czennies
Mingi is one of the most underappriciated dancers in this generation. Bcs he is a main rapper and a main dancer at the same time, he doesn't get many opportunities to showcase his dance (lately more tho) bcs he is more bussy with his rapping. But get anyone from any 4th gen group and have them dance battle with mingi, not many can even come close to beating him ngl. Mingi dance king. But fr 4th gen really is a dance powerhouse, so many talented dancers.
Being Jamaican I grew up around grooving so I'm definitely groove biased. It's why groovy dancers in kpop tend to catch my eye over ones who prioritize angles, sharp lines or explosiveness (which most times to me just came off as "stiff" or "too much"). Mark and Jungwon's (2 of my personal favs from their grps) groove make wtv choreo they're doing that more fun to watch as it looks like they just allow their bodies to flow with the rhythm instead of trying to be perfect by hitting all the angles. It also adds their personal touch/style to a choreo which is always fun to see.
I strongly agree about Mark and Jungwon. The way they dance looks really fun and entertaining, and makes you also wanna dance. Now I'm realizing that it was their natural groove that made their dancing so attractive to me.
Depends on the dance but overall I agree; cases like Naughty the sharp clean technique is literally how it supposed to be so it looks better, but songs that demand the performer to be playful, flirty or plain full of swag REALLY benefit from some groove in their execution… and that’s like most of current KPop.
This explains Ryujin’s dance style to me a lot. I usually prefer groovy techniques in dancing, that have a lot of bounce and power. It’s how I prefer to learn dance myself. But I’m always so intrigued by how clean and easy Ryujin’s dancing looks. It’s sharp and relatively “groove-less” most times. I’m often dumbstruck how she makes things look so clean.
Ryujin just has this… _something_ to her dancing that I can’t put into words. It’s not groove, not exactly, but it’s mesmerising. She knows where to use her isolations, where to add little head movements and overall she’s just… she’s just so damn _cool._ She looks _cool_ no matter what she does. I wish I had a better technical vocabulary to describe it.
I think Kai’s personality and dance style fit together really well - as does his continued love of ballet technique and form. Since ballet is a very, very non-groovy and tense dance form, it makes sense. I sometimes wonder if SM’s overall focus on fully executed, sharp moves was also influenced by Kai’s style.
@@mwyz I think it’s specific to SM though - other big 3 groups have never had similar preferences, and groovy dance styles used to be the norm. They were the norm even for very early SM groups. Groovy styles can and are perceived as powerful by the public too, SM just seems to prefer a cleaner style
This made me realize why I’m obsessed with San’s fancams, the lack of groove and the emphasis on control and power is just so satisfying to me. Also explained why I think Mingi shines so much more in his tiktoks more than on comeback stages because he can fully utilize his groove to the right songs. I would love to see ateez have a less power emphasizing dance and see how they perform
To add to your explanation - groove makes u wanna stand up, dance, and join the fun (faves for this are Mark and Jhope), while non groove sort of makes u sit back down, almost frozen in awe of the beauty of the movement (ahem, Kai) ❤️🔥 both equally captivating in their own way
not all members tho, their choreographies has so many hip-hop elements to make u think they are groovy, they pretty much trick u lol, similar to New Jeans. Still XG are a really balanced dance group, all members have potential and I think most of them had some kind of background before training (despite not being kpop they strained as a kpop group).
Perfect video. Side note: I'm not even a traininee A stan because I don't know the other members but it's such a pity to not see JJ debut. Or maybe there's a better path for him. The boy is so young and talented.
On one hand it would've been interesting to have someone with his skills in the industry, on the other hand his artistry would definitely thrive more in the dance scene. I guess we'll see if he debuts somewhere else (maybe one of the Hybe groups that are said to debut?) or if he quit kpop altogether
@@facts_in_fiction I agree with what you said about the dance scene... Sometimes there are dancers even in group I stan that I think would have been better suited for the dance scene or (maybe it's rude to say it) that their dancing talent is "wasted" in the kpop industry. I think JJ belongs to the dance scene. Still if it was his dream to debut, I feel sad for him.
That Jaemin and Jisung video is so iconic and I’m so glad that you used it as an example. Also really appreciate that you talked about Mark, I’ve always found the way he dances so fun and eye-catching and I feel like not enough people talk about how amazing of a dancer he really is.
This video is truly an eye opener to me, as a dancer with a hip hop background that became a kpop Stan over 7 years ago there was always something that I found to be quite intriguing with the k dance community and it’s the fact that I never thought that “the groove” would make such a big difference and it totally makes sense now that I think about it. As an example (as a matter of preference) when people would be complimenting Taeyong in a dance practice I’d be entirely stuck on Haechan just because I’d like the way he would balance his moves between soft and sharp but now I realize that it’s also the grooviness in the relatively soft moves that made me be more attracted to Haechan’s dance style! I just discovered this channel but I already love it!!!
I hear a lot that people think nct members like ten or haechan don't groove at all, but I really agree with your assessment of the soft grooves, that's exactly the thought I had before as well
Omg same!!! Haechan has a really nice groove imo, much more than Taeyong so I usually find myself entranced with his dancing vs. being impressed by Taeyong's. Taeyong is objectively good, but Haechan makes me ✨️feel✨️ something. Same with Mark
same!! every time i watch a nct dance practice my eyes just keep going to haechan, he grooves so smoothly and has such an impeccable blend of techniques, i adore his style
coming from a classical dancing background, groove is probably one of the hardest things to acquire if you dont naturally have it. to this day i can only feel some sort of groove when i'm relaxed and know the choreography enough for it to come from muscle memory. and yes, groups are so less focused on it these days! even on training footage, we used to see idols doing so much hip hop technique and groove/jack exercises, today you rarely see it. also, i struggle a little to tell when a dancer is just bouncy vs when it's groovy. any tips?
It's complicated since the bounce is a groove when correctly executed, I would say when it looks more like jumping/exercise than like dance it's probably not actually groove
as someone who used to do traditional dance (for fun), i also struggle with being groovy since the traditional dance i learn acquires me to be mostly fluid and clean all the time so being groovy is not really encouraged but i also find it easier for me to be groovy when i'm relaxed enough and feels no pressure when asked to execute groovy choreographies :) if your goal is to be able more groovy in a natural way, then i wish the best for it to happen sooner for you ❤
You need feel the music. Small detail in movement or vocal technique reflect from your feeling and your mind. Some person have strong personality so they act in certain way, but some people can act so they can have different personality.
I have Seventeen and Pentagon in my head as kind of opposite dance styles in my head, even though they're both very expressive and have a lot of movement, and this explains why perfectly: Seventeen don't have much room for grooving, as Hoshi likes to have every move and angle accounted for, right down to the exact number of degrees you should turn your head, it's all very precise, and the expression is worked into the choreography itself. Pentagon, on the other hand, leave plenty of room for grooving, and I'd even say you have to be good at grooving to make their choreography come to life, so the baseline choreography keeps everything cohesive, while the grooving room lets each member's style shine through. They just require different skill sets.
an advice is to watch seventeen performing songs that are years old on concerts. they dont care as much about being so perfect, hitting every step and syncing because usually theyre just having fun, so the members' individual style can shine through more
Maybe this is why I liked Hanni's dancing so much at debut? I thought her and Haerin immediately stood out but I couldn't put my finger on why. It wasn't necessarily their technique/sharpness but the way they ride the music feels genuine and connected. I think I noticed it most during Hype Boy as Hanni expresses the song a bit better than the other members
Kai wasn't simply taught how to dance in SM. He wasn't just company taught. Kai was doing ballet as a kid for quite sometime -- a form of dance which prioritizes crisp lines in one's movement. He then took to a more gentler, but no less striking, form of dance during 2015-2016: contemporary. But his dancing roots show.
This is so interesting because it explained a LOT as to why I personally don't agree with some kpop dance opinions, but because I don't have a background in dance, I didn't know how to explain it technically (just wanna preface that I'm more groove biased because I did traditional dance for a bit). But it's also something that general, non-dancer fans don't realize is that kpop choreo is a literal mix of every genre, which is why some idols look better than others /depending/ on the song+choreography !! Like Mmmh? I always thought that dance was kinda 😭 until you provided the groovier example. And especially considering Rover, Kai is clearly more into lines and angles most likely because of his ballet experience. YOUR COMMENT ON MINGI MAKES SO MUCH SENSE because I've said before Mingi isn't really my favorite dancer in ATEEZ, even though he officially labeled as a dancer in ATEEZ, which surprised a couple of people, but that's because ATEEZ choreography is more focused on hitting the moves, no? BUT MINGI DOESN'T ALWAYS DO THAT, which makes some of his execution not match up with the other members, therefore making him stick out. Same goes with Jaemin. I think he uses his head to support a lot of his grooves in the recent years (make a wish and ridin). IS THAT WHY HE LOOKS SO GOOD DOING THE BEGINNING OF UNIVERSE?! also totally off topic but Mark's groove is the most sexiest thing ever HAHHAHAH This was so informative (the way I mentally took notes, especially for the next time I attempt Easy because i didn't realize it was a multitasking thing NO WONDER IT'S SO HARD) and I hope you keep up the good work!
Yeah, Mingi's style/technique doesn't always suit Ateez choreo that well, which is why a lot of people tend to underestimate him on first glance. And yes I loved Jaemin in make a wish, there are a lot of moments where dances in the most groovy way out of the members of the unit!
Idk what y'all mean but mingi's dance style has always suited ateez choreos. Mingi just had a hard time adjusting back to being on stage for a few performances after he came back from hiatus. I also wasn't going to comment this bc ur video tries to explain a dance concept and u tried, but not entirely complete. Groove can be varied depending on dance styles. Krump has a totally different groove from ballet from popping from house... I knew u had made a wrong definition of groove the moment u said kai's mmmh doesn't isn't groovy. Kpop tends to judge dance based on either contemporary or street hip hop. Street hip hop has a different groove than krump. Kai's mmh choreo uses a combination of krump grooves and contemporary... To an extent
In short, just because smthin is sharp and angled does not mean it doesn't have groove. Groove is more abt the feeling of the music than it is a movement. So it can vary. Musicality is how u hit beats. Flow is the transition from step into another. I mention these three bc they are often confused with each other. Edit: u r confusing groove and swag/character. It's not the same concept in dance.
@@facts_in_fiction Jaemin during Make a Wish was really something else. I didn't realise until I watched your video that I actually really like groovy dancers. Make sense
@@strangerinmoscow6858 I dance funk styles and I also learned krump at some point, I know that there are different grooves. Ballet and its adjacent styles are known to no have groove in that sense at all. Groove is a term that originally comes from jazz musicians and is used in a variety of ways, but the technically correct one is that it is a type of movement quality that you can pinpoint and describe, it's not just a feeling and that's why you think there is a ballet groove when there isn't. This is something I've learned from dozens of street dancers of different styles, most dislike this notion that you have that it's only a feeling because that's counterproductive to understanding the concept and difficulty of groove. Kai is grooving a little bit in Mmmh because it's part of the choreo (the body rolls), but it's so minimal that anyone would say that it's not a groovy execution
Mingi’s groove is exactly why he’s my favorite dancer in atz, the way he plays with the rhythm and the way he throws his weight to really Hit a strong step in the choreo when he wants to. But then he’s also so wavy, adding in body rolls and extra spins just because he can just ❤❤❤❤❤ watch his fancams guys, he’s insane, i could literally watch him dance all day 😍🥰
actually while i’m rambling about Mingi’s dancing, another thing I love about his performances but its not really groove related, is how he incorporates his clothes and accessories in the performance. Seriously, I used to dislike how the stylists would always give him long coats to wear every stage UNTIL I saw them in concert and you can tell he’s subtly controlling those coats to swing out in a big sweeping move when he wants to, where he places his arms to create more interesting dance lines with the coats, its actually really cool and of course all his cool sunglasses and stuff. :D just very fun man to watch dance. But I do like that he’s been branching out with more daring styles and outfits bc his body lines are so amazing too without a coat covering it up. Basically I love both now, both is good. Okay I’m done!! 😂❤
i've always noticed jungwon's close relationship to the music, his musicality is amazing, he always knows when and how to use groove to his advantage; such an underrated dancer. ofc jj takes the cake since hes been doing locking for god knows how long, its like he lives and breathes groove haha
Hoshi is a versatile dancer. He has that groove and precision in his dance and he applies it wherever necessary. Indeed one of the best dancers in the industry.
There's nothing more nice then watching Kpop dance youtubers who actually know what they're talking because you make such good points & teach us non-dancers a lot about dancing. I always wondered why I liked Trainee A JJ's cover of Mmmh a tiny bit more than even Kai's dancing, even when the latter is still among my top favourite idol dancers, it shows how groove & having that sensuality in your dancing actually makes a difference. The fact that Jaemin is a groove-based dancer also explains why I enjoyed watching his fancams so much during Make a Wish era😅cause that's where he was really in his element. I also enjoy watching clean, technical & popping dancers like Jisung, Ryujin, & Kai so it would be interesting to see a video in the same format explaining them (if you haven't made one already, if course) You & Kpop Dance Deep Dives are 2 of my favourite K- youtubers❤
Oh my god that NCT video! When I first saw that video, I was just starting to get to know them and I thought Jaemin was the main dancer. It really shows how one style isn’t necessarily better than the other. It really depends on the type/genre of the song and the choreo itself. That video is such a good example of the contrasting style in dancing. And made me realize which one I prefer 😂
This was SO interesting, thank you! I love when knowledgeable people can explain things I can feel, but not put my finger on. With Easy, I always felt like Lee Know embodied the song, but I'd just sort of flail in his direction and say "doesn't the way he's moving just look like it sounds?" without being able to explain it 😭 And that also explains why (though he's my favourite SKZ dancer, recently followed by Changbin) in some songs a member with a different style draws my eye instead.
SONG MINGI, the groove king. His last name is "song" and rightfully so - he actually feels the song. When groove is called for, he's always gliding, sliding, rolling and flowing while not losing form. His iconic groovy ways made me fall head over heels in love.
proof that Sung Hanbin is iconic even pre-debut,, i love his versatility in switching from groove to less groovy based on what the performances call for
Ahhhh I love that you used that Jaemsung example! It's my favorite Jaemin dance video and really shows what Jaemin's capable of when he's in his element 😍😍
This is why I love WayV's choreos a lot cuz they combine both clean and sharp movements with soft and "wavy" moves. Plus they execute it with finess so it looks both clean and groovy. Kick Back and Action Figure demonstrate this a lot.
Firstly, I dunno where your channel came from but LOVE that this video found me, great work! You've put in to words what's sooo hard to describe at times because groove we sometimes just call "sauce" ha whilst less groovy dancers are seen as more mechanical when in reality they're just clean and technical. It's probably why XG are such a stand out performance wise for, they have so much groove in their choreo (Jurin, Cocona & Maya and even Chisa at times being stand outs) and probably why they're often praised for looking like they're having fun whilst performing. There's definitely been a change in the type of choreo style that you find in K-Pop now as KDDD has explained many times with open style choreo being more common and idols dancing in ways that were not the norm years ago, B.I - Btbt being another great example. I personally love it and can't wait to see more of it because groove adds that extra personality to a performer when it's the right moment, Shotaro and Mark (ah i wrote about Mark before even getting to that part in the video ha) nowadays being great examples of this! Jungwon, Jaemin & Allen, Jisung are some of my favourites to watch dance so loved seeing them in this video, I've literally included them in my top dance videos on my other channel haha. Sunwoo from the Boyz is probably another example of a groovier approach vs Q who is more technical but in that instance I love them both equally pretty much. Great video once again!
The style that is now referred to as open style actually used to be infamous for not being very groovy, essentially using moves and technique from street styles for choreo but not really including groove, and boy group choreos have been choreographed by open style dancers since around 2010, which was the reason groove was disappearing from choreos around that time (1st and early 2nd gen choreos were usually very groovy, though usually more in that middle school hip hop hype way with a lot of jumping). Nowadays the trends in open style just changed towards more groovy execution (which I'm also really happy about). I'm talking about the history of commercial and open style dance in my 'sexism in kpop dance' video, in case that interests you 😅 I think most kpop youtubers come from other styles while I sort of lived through this change in the scene, so my perspective might be a bit different
@@facts_in_fiction Oooh interesting! I guess there's a big change between Shinee's Replay and Lucifer or Ring Ding Dong although the EDM era probably didn't leave much room for groove too? I'll check that video out now!
As a dancer myself, in short, feeling the music is how you groove better, thinking and feeling is what differentiates a dancer who has it. In the words of the greatest pop dancer to ever grace this planet and crowned the King of Pop, MJ, "Thinking is the biggest mistake a dancer could make, you have to feel." It's what separated him as dancer from those who had less groove. Tho this never meant those who had no groove at all were anything less of a good dancer, bcs even a dancer without groove can execute a dance intended without groove. Both dancers have their strengths and I like how the video mentioned that. A dancer who can execute with both groove and no groove is an extremely talented dancer.
I'm someone who much prefers groove to sharp, intense, controlled movement. Watching tense dancers makes me tense, but watching groovy dancers makes me want to dance with them. Also, I'm obsessed with Minho in Easy. He really makes it look so easy when it absolutely isn't. I think he's one of the few dancers that manages to find a perfect balance between being groovy and still looking clean and sharp. His tiger inside Fancam is a great example.
I love this video! I feel like lee know having groove in easy is why so many stays were obsessing over him fancams when the song came out instead of the other members, because you can see he's feeling the groove of the music, making it look easy, whereas the other members, while they're great dancers, didn't get as much attention during that era.
I also feel like Kai's ballet background makes him more focused in sharpness and precision in his dance steps. More like a habit since ballet dancers tend to focus on elegance, angles, and body controls. Still one of the greatest dancers in 3rd Gen and the whole KPOP.
when i saw the title i immediately thought of JJ and so I clicked. how glad am I that you actually included him even if he’s still a trainee right now. it’s true that watching him makes you want to dance as well. he just makes it look so easy when in reality it takes real talent and years of experience to end up being that good. hope we get to see him debut soon.
I love this! Giving context to the history of groove and examples. Like you gave, J-Hope and Hyoyeon comes to mind first when I think of groove, although I'm not a fan of J-Hope music or bts. His definitely the Groove King of Kpop in my eyes and like pointed out I'm sure had to do with his experience as a street dancer. Same with Hyo who specialises in HipHop even working under the Janet Jackson. As for those who lack Groove, Kai is perfect example. This probably has to do with his background in Ballet. Ballet is known to be a restrictive dance style and ballet dancers are taught to fight against urges of rhythm for a more technical style. So although it's made Kai a very technical dancer, his also lost a sense of Groove that he may have had if he didn't train in Ballet earlier in life.
Hobi is dancing itself !!! Every move he makes has swagger, and groove, naturally. But he can turn it down, turn up the control and be very isolated, tight and precise. I mean if you have ever seen him dance, than you know his isolations and body contol are incredible. But he has also studied many different kinds of dance starting at a very young age. He belonged to a street dance crew, and attended a dance academy. He is incredibly versatile as a dancer, and in many, many other ways. Hobi still continues to suprise me from time to time in the best of ways! 💜💜💜 Jhope is truly a one of a kind dancer/talent, and that just becomes more clear from his nicknames, lol, obviously. Dance Leader🕺🏻/ Team Captain🕺🏻 👑King of Performance👑 🌞Golden Hyung, etc.... 💜💚💜💚💜
I'm so glad you included Lee Know and Hyunjin in Easy cause I was so curious what you were going to say about them!! They have very different dancing styles that suit different kinds of moves but I've always preferred Lee Know because he hits EVERY beat on the mark and makes it look effortless. Hyunjin has a much more flowy style but sometimes I feel like it makes him look sloppy when he throws himself into it too much.
it’s nice to see san getting a lot of praises here. many non-fans and professionals think he’s a really good dancer and one of the best in 4th gen. you said he did really well with the law challenge and he actually has groove, he can do it but for him, it’s stylistic (i saw your comment). he chooses how to go with the song or how he prefers. San did taekwondo and boxing when he was a child. So I think in his dance style, those are also affected. It always amazes me the fact that this man didn’t know how to dance, even the simple steps so he was called the lead vocalist only when he debuted. but he worked really hard that now he’s in the lists with the best dancers and also one of the best dancers in ateez. i hope he always sees all the positive feedbacks
Oh so this is why my bias is Mingi in ATEEZ.. his dancing is so good to my eyes how he looks so effortless and so so free, like he’s just gliding on air. Like nobody told him that gravity exist 😭💕🖤
Yesyesyesyes I'm so glad I found this video!! I'm always frustrated that the "groovy" dancers never get as much time in the spotlight because the style isn't really incorporated much in kpop dance (sharp isolations and popping seem to be much more appreciated). Jhope, Minho, Mingi, Hanni etc. are my favorite type of dancers :D
Wendy truly slayed “Step Back” the most out of GOT The Beat imo and I think it’s because her musicality was the most on point (related to grove, right?)
this has literally opened my eyes to why i prefer certain dancers in a group over the "main dancer" like i loved that u included jungwon bc although niki is member most praised for dancing in enhypen, i enjoy jungwons dancing a lot more bc of how he uses his whole body so well with groove and fully encaptures the choreography energy and has such sharp detail to where he adds rigidity
Same here op. All you see are praises towards ni-ki and I completely agree he’s one of the best dancers in K-pop but my eyes always goes to jungwon. The same goes for jaemin over jisung and Haechan over taeyong. This video was an eye opener
@@prathikshamalaichamy1303 exactly!! jungwon has fluidity but also can be super sharp, whereas nikis dancing is mostly just sharp to me. jungwon adds little details that make him stand out to me(especially as a former dancer)
So this was the reason why I prefer lee know fancam over hyunjin fancam. I know both are talented, but I can't help the fact that lee know dance is so relaxed and looked easy. Now I know that I'm more groovy biased lol
9:55 I also get why you like San’s execution! I realized that clean dancing looks GREAT on people who have long limbs :)) like a move may seem like a quick snap for shorter limbs but longer limbs make a move look defined and intentional
Mingi's groove is soooo good... Like although he's a main dancer he's still too underrated.... Like he's such a good performer and dancer.... ATEEZ IS THE BEST
groove is THE thing that makes dancing fun it's sad to see that stiff company studio style everywhere in kpop but I understand that no one can sing and dance both perfectly
You should do a video focusing on the 5 elements of dance (if you're interested and have time) - relationship, energy, shape, space, and time. When I majored in dance, these were the most important elements that we focused on everyday. I still use them as a dance teacher right now.
It would be cool if you did more videos like this one, where you clarified the meaning of different dance terms such as versatility, musicality, texture and dynamics and perhaps discussed what dance skills are often overlooked or even overhyped in kpop, especially by people who may not be very familiar with dance.
Seeing you put Jungwon as a Groove example just completely validated my impression of his dancing since I-land. I couldn’t figure out what about his dance style was so intriguing and appealing to me personally and your video provided an amazing/clarifying explanation!! Thank you.
yay so glad youtube recommended your channel to me! it's always nice to have dancers comment on kpop dancing in such detail. im gonna go binge watch all your other videos now
I am so fascinated with KPop performances. These detailed analyses and breakdowns explaining dance principles are extremely interesting for me! I appreciate the detailed explanations and examples, because I don't know the first thing about dance. Thank you so much for making these videos! You put into words some of the things I notice myself when watching fancams, and it's so satisfying cause your explanations just make it click for me. These are lessons for me ♡
i think for tutting choreos like naugty (where showed karina and ryujin), its best to keep it clean. That's the hardest part about tutting or voguing (which chungha also shows well by keeping it clean even though she has a groove to her when she needs it)
As a dancer I have to say Mark is probably one of the dancers with the most groove I’ve seen. He can definitely dance very clean and tune the groove down- but if you watch most NCT choreos he clearly dances in his own groovy style
Finally! Someone who really appreciates Jiwoo being a good hip hop dancer, girlie popped off with YDS and their Beat Run special stage the best. Also special mention to XG's Cocona and Jurin especially Cocona, she has that groove and Shooting Star proves it!! Kinda want your opinion on Lightsum's Juhyeon and Sangah although they don't have recent releases but still, especially Juhyeon, girlie is a great dancer technique wise and I love how she applies fluidity in every choreographies they have especially in Alive, every step she had it nailed right, from the alignment to the execution.
The way you incorporated the videos and the text made it really easy to understand! I think groove differences were *really* visible in the 90s Love example. Also, I just watched through your channel because I love dance analyses and dance related content in general! I would *love* if you could do an analysis (or somehow incorporate it into any other video) on Rocky from Astro, who is, in my opinion, extremely underrated for being one of Kpop's top dancers. His style is focussed on *extremely* precise, sharp lines and being grounded. He emphasises perfectly timed moves to the point of changing the original execution of a move by just one beat when covering a certain song just because he feels like it fits better. When participating on the competition show "Dance War", professional judges constantly gave him the highest of praise. After having learnt ballet from a young age, he's dabbled into a wide range of different styles, which makes him pretty versatile! His company did him pretty wrong by not promoting him properly. Long story short, I'd love to hear what you have to say about him!
Was interesting to see Jisung Jaemin example, for me often when I see Jisung side by side with another dancer, while hes clean something feels like its missing. I couldnt really explain what exactly and this video explained it really well.
i used to not get why i don't find jisung's dancing as appealing as people say but now i know, i simply prefer groovier dancers! i also understand that groove vs no groove dancers can both be good depending on the song/choreo. thank you so much for this!
To me groove will always win over technical precision. Dancers without groove look robotic and also don’t give me the same emotion or hype me up like groovy dancers do.
Thanks a lot!! I have seen this word many times, tried to look for its meaning, and vaguely guessed but never fully understood until now. You explained it so well, wow!!
i couldn’t agree more. and being an exo-l since 2014 i couldn’t place why i didnt resonate with kai’s dancing style. on paper he’s so well trained classically and his proprioception is some of the best in the entire industry but his movements always seemed too influenced by his ballet foundations. sharp, clean, posture being tight and minimal use of loose movements and head/neck bops. i think the subtlety and control works really well with his solo stuff tho. taemin, jimin, kai, and san are standouts to me in terms of overall consistency and breakthroughs in performace styles.
For kai stans it's hard to accept that technically he is not the best. He is not bad but he is notTHAT GREAT as his fans make him see. Kai stands out more because of his stage presence and his facial expression that make his dance striking.
@@adeley9318 kai is not being best is just your opinion. objectively and according to professionals, he’s one of the best in the industry and personal comments like yours won’t change this fact so go ahead and have your own opinion anyway
@@sansppudding870 well he is chosen because he is from EXO one of the most popular groups and as i said overall his dance "doesn't look bad" but technically not the best
not even finished the video yet, but this really helped me to realise why for Kai's Rover challenge I preferred the execution of some other dancers/idols over Kai's stage version! So interesting how the same choreography and basic movements can be interpreted so differently, I love dance analysis videos!
THANK YOU for including harry-june from dkb ! he is one of thee grooviest and most talented dancers in the industry despite only being 19 and from a very unknown group.
I’m not a dancer but there was always something lacking in lots of Kpop dancing that I couldn’t quite point out and now thanks to you I realized it’s groove
I think you should take a look at Dayeon from Kep1er, she has experience in various genres but hip hop is her strength, and honestly she's one of the idols with best groove in 4th gen, it just comes naturally to her.
absolutely LOVED this video!!! so much work must've gone into it... i absolutely devoured all of your channel's videos, as a non-dancer, they are super instructive and bring up so many things i could've never noticed myself. i see you included sung hanbin from boys planet in the video; i would love to see a ranking of some boys planet contestants (maybe top 28 or your favorite dancers!) if you ever have the time
Thank you for making this video! I'm not a trained dancer but still I thought you explained it really well in a way I could really understand what you were showing in the examples. Good work!
Thank you, I'm glad it's understandable! I always worry whether I'm able to explain the concepts/terms to viewers who aren't familiar with them already haha
Some comments pointed out that Hanni is the grooviest dancer in NewJeans and I also agree with that! I put Haerin as an example because that segment was about balancing the very "accurate" girl group technique with groovy execution, which I think Haerin does best, but if you want to see the grooviest version of the dance you should definitely watch Hanni.
I will start editing the Hybe bg ranking (Bts, Txt, Enhypen) soon - if you have any lesser known videos of any of the members that you feel like should be taken into consideration, feel free to link them below! I mean stuff outside of dance practices and other officially posted videos that I might have missed
I know it doesn't quite make sense considering they broke up but is there a chance you could add trainee a in the ranking? even if just in the comment section of the video.
@@MorePara8 it would be too many people for one video lmao and I don't really have a ranking in mind for them at the moment
@@facts_in_fiction lol well they're 13 I understand you 😭
@@callmereven I mostly paid attention to JJ and James, so I'm actually not really familiar with the whole group. I was definitely planning on analysising them, but now I feel like there isn't really a point (especially since some of them left the industry in general afaik)
Another Jimin pre-debut tho:
ua-cam.com/video/wPywFydPOS0/v-deo.html
It's crazy how groovy and not-groovy both have their respective appeal.
Groovy is playful, all encompassing, infectious, flirty and juicy.
Not groovy is sleek, swift, impeccable, deliberate and elegant.
There's lots of passion in both, but with different charismas
Really good description, that was exactly what I wanted to convey!
💯💯
such a good description. I see many people got a chance to shit on Kai , San in this video, Because they thought this video maker is criticizing them .
@@SadiaIslamShouki Thanks! At the end of the day people have preferences, the annoying thing is when some people feel the need to put down a different style in favor of their own, instead of letting every style coexist.
Tons of wasted energy in saying how much one dislikes something, energy that can be spent on appreciating what one enjoys imo.
@@SadiaIslamShouki things as they are
kai is too overhyped,
just because he is from exo (one of the most popular grouop)
overall his dance look striking because of his stage presence+facial expressions but he doesnt have a good technique
I think the reason why most kpop groups gave up on the groove is because it’s hard to be in sync to follow the groove, kpop dance are known for it’s unison and clean formation dances and grooving is very individualistic way of feeling the song through dance. That’s why most idol prefer sharp angles etc
I Agree. From what i see, the individualistic way that you mentioned is more supported when the member has their center time instead of throughout the entire choreo e
I think training has a lot to do with it as well, most Kpop dancers come into the company with limited dance experience and are given strict instructions to follow, this doesn't allow them to build a dance style or rhythm. When they are asked to freestyle they can't because they only know how to dance, they don't have personal rhythm. Similar to Ballet dancers who are taught technically and are made to abandon all rhythm.
Not really look at XG and a lot of dance crews who have less amount of training time even 2nd gen groups have groove I think it’s just what they prefer coz u can teach groove literally in hip hop and jazz
@@erosivy3832 have you ever tried teaching someone how to groove? It's so difficult especially when they have close to no dance experience in hip-hop. Kpop companies are not going to waste millions and years on groups for a "if". The best business decision is to teach technically so it can look balanced and in sync on stage. You have to remember most kpop entertainers aren't professional dancers and don't have a dance background so using XG or other groups isn't really helpful. Groove isn't needed in Kpop, so there's no need to spend time on perfecting it. Some people lack rhythm and that's it.
@@clo9767 half the members in NewJeans and XG aren't groovy. The only thing they have to give you that illusion is their music genre. We just left the Y2K takeover craze so a lot of Korean entertainment labels are taking advantage of this and taking influence from Black American/AA culture especially the 2000s/90s music and fashion.
Either way my point is looking at K-pop as a whole from 1st gen to current 4th gen. A few rookie groups coming out with RnB influence music isn't changing a pattern I've observed for the decade I've been into K-pop and my knowledge of dance.
I think you've completely misunderstood my points/argument or we just arent even near the same page of subject. Because I'm not focused on groups being insync, I'm focused on how dance genres and dance backgrounds have an impact on an idols dance career and how this ultimately affects the rest of the group. And more broadly, the Korean music industry.
Mark's groove is my favourite, he really knows how to ride the beat. He has good foundation in both rap and dance.
No he isn't that great.
@@chenles_defender ok
@@chenles_defender bffr 💀💀💀💀
@@chenles_defender I think u should shut up😊
lol he is great, and I genuinely wanna know why you hate him sm
as a trained dancer i’ve always enjoyed watching jhope dance because he just has the groove to him that is extremely hard for most dancers to achieve and it’s so satisfying to see him do it so effortlessly.
Jhope was a street dancer right? No wonder he has such a good groove, I love watching him!
@@skyward7903 street dancer? Oh yeah he was a ghetto Wannabe
@@skyward7903 started street dancing at 12 years old I think (source: 'Mama' from BTS' 'Wings'). His groove is practically subconscious at this point, the 16 years of work really show in how effortless his dancing is.
@@kya7149 he is really good in groovy dances, it's a shame that Bighit focuses in popping, footwork and sharp moves with their other trainee's..If HYBE sent ENHYPEN in America to train, like TXT,Trainee A and &team, they will be definitely the best dance group in Kpop..
Instead they brought in GRV's Nick Joseph to train Enhypen.
I think best example is Exo. Kai focuses on the sharpness, while Lay has that groove. They both have crazy good stage presence but very different styles.
agree! It is like Ryujin and Chaeyoung in the case of ITZY~
Looked for this comment! ❤
Balance 💗
@@lonelydaisy6413 😂😂😂😂Yixing really said "Balance!!"
also kai has a ballet background !!
I feel like Mark is both a combination of groove and technique but many people overlook how skillful he is since he moves so flowy and fun. His isolations are great but he never looses the fun element of every move. Mark is remarkable and about time people notice it. Second underrated dancer is definitely Jaemin , no one ever talks about his arm and upper body control which is pretty impressive but besides that he never forgets to give facial expressions and make the moves fit the rhythm and vibe of the song perfectly. He is making everything look effortless.
Groove is also part of technique..
@@facts_in_fiction yes it is but groove is based in something else it is more emotion/feeling of the song driven while technical skills are sth you can learn through a lot of practice. I don’t believe groove can be taught the same way ,you have to feel it. Most of the time people just have it naturally.
I always watch Mark and Taeyong dance one after the other when I watch dance practices, because they're almost opposites and yet both so good, it's so interesting.
LITERALLY 100 me
And what I llove about them is they have solidified their signature styles that u can distinguish them individually and yet they mesh into their groups so well. I love Ty's theatrics wheb he performs and Mark is such fun dancer. The moment Mark lets go and take the sexy route fully is going to be the end of al ot of czennies
I loved seeing Mingi there ngl. Some people forget he's in ATEEZ's dance line, he literally knows how to break dance 😭✨
He's so sexy for that ugh
Mingi is one of the most underappriciated dancers in this generation. Bcs he is a main rapper and a main dancer at the same time, he doesn't get many opportunities to showcase his dance (lately more tho) bcs he is more bussy with his rapping. But get anyone from any 4th gen group and have them dance battle with mingi, not many can even come close to beating him ngl. Mingi dance king. But fr 4th gen really is a dance powerhouse, so many talented dancers.
@@prrrpa1511 I couldn't agree more 👏
@@prrrpa1511 totally agree
and to add to that, his freestyle is always flavorful! heavily influenced by hip-hop!!!!
Being Jamaican I grew up around grooving so I'm definitely groove biased. It's why groovy dancers in kpop tend to catch my eye over ones who prioritize angles, sharp lines or explosiveness (which most times to me just came off as "stiff" or "too much"). Mark and Jungwon's (2 of my personal favs from their grps) groove make wtv choreo they're doing that more fun to watch as it looks like they just allow their bodies to flow with the rhythm instead of trying to be perfect by hitting all the angles. It also adds their personal touch/style to a choreo which is always fun to see.
I strongly agree about Mark and Jungwon. The way they dance looks really fun and entertaining, and makes you also wanna dance. Now I'm realizing that it was their natural groove that made their dancing so attractive to me.
@@bibinurmagzomova9495 Exactly this! They always look so cool and entertaining it makes me want to joing them
This is definitely what I've been trying to say but I didn't know how
yes! non groovy dancers often seem so stiff and dull to me and so I rather not watch them even tho I know they're technically good lol
Depends on the dance but overall I agree; cases like Naughty the sharp clean technique is literally how it supposed to be so it looks better, but songs that demand the performer to be playful, flirty or plain full of swag REALLY benefit from some groove in their execution… and that’s like most of current KPop.
This explains Ryujin’s dance style to me a lot. I usually prefer groovy techniques in dancing, that have a lot of bounce and power. It’s how I prefer to learn dance myself. But I’m always so intrigued by how clean and easy Ryujin’s dancing looks. It’s sharp and relatively “groove-less” most times. I’m often dumbstruck how she makes things look so clean.
Ryujin just has this… _something_ to her dancing that I can’t put into words. It’s not groove, not exactly, but it’s mesmerising. She knows where to use her isolations, where to add little head movements and overall she’s just… she’s just so damn _cool._ She looks _cool_ no matter what she does. I wish I had a better technical vocabulary to describe it.
she's like a ninja, dude, she's so cool to watch with her sharpness. @@WhitePaintbrush
Ryujin always makes the choreo look extremely effortless.
I think Kai’s personality and dance style fit together really well - as does his continued love of ballet technique and form. Since ballet is a very, very non-groovy and tense dance form, it makes sense. I sometimes wonder if SM’s overall focus on fully executed, sharp moves was also influenced by Kai’s style.
I think yes definitely and not just SM
you can see that most 4th gen bg dancers are influenced by kai's dance style
so on point
SM's always been into that "powerful" aesthetic or image, and I think the dance style is somewhat a byproduct of that.
Let's also get this straight. Kai HAS groove, he is just not the wiggliest worm out there
@@mwyz I think it’s specific to SM though - other big 3 groups have never had similar preferences, and groovy dance styles used to be the norm. They were the norm even for very early SM groups. Groovy styles can and are perceived as powerful by the public too, SM just seems to prefer a cleaner style
This made me realize why I’m obsessed with San’s fancams, the lack of groove and the emphasis on control and power is just so satisfying to me. Also explained why I think Mingi shines so much more in his tiktoks more than on comeback stages because he can fully utilize his groove to the right songs. I would love to see ateez have a less power emphasizing dance and see how they perform
To add to your explanation - groove makes u wanna stand up, dance, and join the fun (faves for this are Mark and Jhope), while non groove sort of makes u sit back down, almost frozen in awe of the beauty of the movement (ahem, Kai) ❤️🔥 both equally captivating in their own way
Atte a Kai Stan 😂
XG is a perfect example of a group where all the members have groove and wow it really shows and they make the moves even more impactful
Real, I'd love for this channel to do an analysis on all XG members dance style
not all members tho, their choreographies has so many hip-hop elements to make u think they are groovy, they pretty much trick u lol, similar to New Jeans. Still XG are a really balanced dance group, all members have potential and I think most of them had some kind of background before training (despite not being kpop they strained as a kpop group).
Perfect video.
Side note: I'm not even a traininee A stan because I don't know the other members but it's such a pity to not see JJ debut. Or maybe there's a better path for him. The boy is so young and talented.
On one hand it would've been interesting to have someone with his skills in the industry, on the other hand his artistry would definitely thrive more in the dance scene. I guess we'll see if he debuts somewhere else (maybe one of the Hybe groups that are said to debut?) or if he quit kpop altogether
@@facts_in_fiction I agree with what you said about the dance scene... Sometimes there are dancers even in group I stan that I think would have been better suited for the dance scene or (maybe it's rude to say it) that their dancing talent is "wasted" in the kpop industry. I think JJ belongs to the dance scene. Still if it was his dream to debut, I feel sad for him.
He was recently spotted at Seventeens concert with the other pledis trainees if im not wrong so there might be hope that he could debut
I feel like his dancing skills are too good for kpop and would get wasted in that industry
@@-amel-9896 I agree.
That Jaemin and Jisung video is so iconic and I’m so glad that you used it as an example. Also really appreciate that you talked about Mark, I’ve always found the way he dances so fun and eye-catching and I feel like not enough people talk about how amazing of a dancer he really is.
This video is truly an eye opener to me, as a dancer with a hip hop background that became a kpop Stan over 7 years ago there was always something that I found to be quite intriguing with the k dance community and it’s the fact that I never thought that “the groove” would make such a big difference and it totally makes sense now that I think about it.
As an example (as a matter of preference) when people would be complimenting Taeyong in a dance practice I’d be entirely stuck on Haechan just because I’d like the way he would balance his moves between soft and sharp but now I realize that it’s also the grooviness in the relatively soft moves that made me be more attracted to Haechan’s dance style!
I just discovered this channel but I already love it!!!
I hear a lot that people think nct members like ten or haechan don't groove at all, but I really agree with your assessment of the soft grooves, that's exactly the thought I had before as well
Omg same!!! Haechan has a really nice groove imo, much more than Taeyong so I usually find myself entranced with his dancing vs. being impressed by Taeyong's. Taeyong is objectively good, but Haechan makes me ✨️feel✨️ something. Same with Mark
same!! every time i watch a nct dance practice my eyes just keep going to haechan, he grooves so smoothly and has such an impeccable blend of techniques, i adore his style
How can u be a dancer and not know this? Lol
@@redefinedliving5974 well just because you find joy in something doesnt mean you have to know everything or like understand everything about it?
coming from a classical dancing background, groove is probably one of the hardest things to acquire if you dont naturally have it. to this day i can only feel some sort of groove when i'm relaxed and know the choreography enough for it to come from muscle memory.
and yes, groups are so less focused on it these days! even on training footage, we used to see idols doing so much hip hop technique and groove/jack exercises, today you rarely see it.
also, i struggle a little to tell when a dancer is just bouncy vs when it's groovy. any tips?
It's complicated since the bounce is a groove when correctly executed, I would say when it looks more like jumping/exercise than like dance it's probably not actually groove
IF YOU DON'T GOT IT. YOU DON'T GOT IT. There is no school you go to learn how to groove. No matter how much black content you absorb
as someone who used to do traditional dance (for fun), i also struggle with being groovy since the traditional dance i learn acquires me to be mostly fluid and clean all the time so being groovy is not really encouraged but i also find it easier for me to be groovy when i'm relaxed enough and feels no pressure when asked to execute groovy choreographies :)
if your goal is to be able more groovy in a natural way, then i wish the best for it to happen sooner for you ❤
You need feel the music. Small detail in movement or vocal technique reflect from your feeling and your mind. Some person have strong personality so they act in certain way, but some people can act so they can have different personality.
@@chayo4537 i’ve been saying this for so long but no one is hearing me lmfaoo
this is literally my favorite youtube channel ever, the jaemin-jisung example was AMAZING
Thank you so much!
HARD AGREE
I am literally sipping tea while watching this video and saying „I always knew Jaemin was an eye catching groovy dancer *smirk* ”LOL
off topic but does anyone know the name of the song jisung and jaemin is dancing to? Its so familiar but I can't remember the title
@@sunghoonkisserThe name of the song is X by J Balvin and Nicky Jam!! 😊
I enjoy watching lee know from stray kids dancing, he got the grooves, precision and technique. the only thing he really lacks is.. dance content
I have Seventeen and Pentagon in my head as kind of opposite dance styles in my head, even though they're both very expressive and have a lot of movement, and this explains why perfectly: Seventeen don't have much room for grooving, as Hoshi likes to have every move and angle accounted for, right down to the exact number of degrees you should turn your head, it's all very precise, and the expression is worked into the choreography itself. Pentagon, on the other hand, leave plenty of room for grooving, and I'd even say you have to be good at grooving to make their choreography come to life, so the baseline choreography keeps everything cohesive, while the grooving room lets each member's style shine through. They just require different skill sets.
Though some Seventeen choreos are quite groovy as well (for example left&right)
an advice is to watch seventeen performing songs that are years old on concerts. they dont care as much about being so perfect, hitting every step and syncing because usually theyre just having fun, so the members' individual style can shine through more
You should watch some of his freestyles during concerts. He’s very groovy!!
Song Mingi is the definition of groove when a performance allows for it, that boy has such bounce to him 😍
I think that's why everyone leaves the concerts enamored with him - he's just so bouncy and fun when he dances for a crowd!
@@vanessarayfox that and the body rolls ;)
Maybe this is why I liked Hanni's dancing so much at debut? I thought her and Haerin immediately stood out but I couldn't put my finger on why. It wasn't necessarily their technique/sharpness but the way they ride the music feels genuine and connected. I think I noticed it most during Hype Boy as Hanni expresses the song a bit better than the other members
Kai wasn't simply taught how to dance in SM. He wasn't just company taught. Kai was doing ballet as a kid for quite sometime -- a form of dance which prioritizes crisp lines in one's movement.
He then took to a more gentler, but no less striking, form of dance during 2015-2016: contemporary.
But his dancing roots show.
This is so interesting because it explained a LOT as to why I personally don't agree with some kpop dance opinions, but because I don't have a background in dance, I didn't know how to explain it technically (just wanna preface that I'm more groove biased because I did traditional dance for a bit). But it's also something that general, non-dancer fans don't realize is that kpop choreo is a literal mix of every genre, which is why some idols look better than others /depending/ on the song+choreography !!
Like Mmmh? I always thought that dance was kinda 😭 until you provided the groovier example. And especially considering Rover, Kai is clearly more into lines and angles most likely because of his ballet experience. YOUR COMMENT ON MINGI MAKES SO MUCH SENSE because I've said before Mingi isn't really my favorite dancer in ATEEZ, even though he officially labeled as a dancer in ATEEZ, which surprised a couple of people, but that's because ATEEZ choreography is more focused on hitting the moves, no? BUT MINGI DOESN'T ALWAYS DO THAT, which makes some of his execution not match up with the other members, therefore making him stick out. Same goes with Jaemin. I think he uses his head to support a lot of his grooves in the recent years (make a wish and ridin). IS THAT WHY HE LOOKS SO GOOD DOING THE BEGINNING OF UNIVERSE?!
also totally off topic but Mark's groove is the most sexiest thing ever HAHHAHAH
This was so informative (the way I mentally took notes, especially for the next time I attempt Easy because i didn't realize it was a multitasking thing NO WONDER IT'S SO HARD) and I hope you keep up the good work!
Yeah, Mingi's style/technique doesn't always suit Ateez choreo that well, which is why a lot of people tend to underestimate him on first glance. And yes I loved Jaemin in make a wish, there are a lot of moments where dances in the most groovy way out of the members of the unit!
Idk what y'all mean but mingi's dance style has always suited ateez choreos. Mingi just had a hard time adjusting back to being on stage for a few performances after he came back from hiatus.
I also wasn't going to comment this bc ur video tries to explain a dance concept and u tried, but not entirely complete. Groove can be varied depending on dance styles. Krump has a totally different groove from ballet from popping from house... I knew u had made a wrong definition of groove the moment u said kai's mmmh doesn't isn't groovy. Kpop tends to judge dance based on either contemporary or street hip hop. Street hip hop has a different groove than krump. Kai's mmh choreo uses a combination of krump grooves and contemporary... To an extent
In short, just because smthin is sharp and angled does not mean it doesn't have groove. Groove is more abt the feeling of the music than it is a movement. So it can vary. Musicality is how u hit beats. Flow is the transition from step into another. I mention these three bc they are often confused with each other.
Edit: u r confusing groove and swag/character. It's not the same concept in dance.
@@facts_in_fiction Jaemin during Make a Wish was really something else. I didn't realise until I watched your video that I actually really like groovy dancers. Make sense
@@strangerinmoscow6858 I dance funk styles and I also learned krump at some point, I know that there are different grooves. Ballet and its adjacent styles are known to no have groove in that sense at all. Groove is a term that originally comes from jazz musicians and is used in a variety of ways, but the technically correct one is that it is a type of movement quality that you can pinpoint and describe, it's not just a feeling and that's why you think there is a ballet groove when there isn't. This is something I've learned from dozens of street dancers of different styles, most dislike this notion that you have that it's only a feeling because that's counterproductive to understanding the concept and difficulty of groove.
Kai is grooving a little bit in Mmmh because it's part of the choreo (the body rolls), but it's so minimal that anyone would say that it's not a groovy execution
Jungwon, and Mark are some of the grooviest dancers i’ve seen in kpop. They’re so fluid and definitely know how/when to use groove.
Mingi’s groove is exactly why he’s my favorite dancer in atz, the way he plays with the rhythm and the way he throws his weight to really Hit a strong step in the choreo when he wants to. But then he’s also so wavy, adding in body rolls and extra spins just because he can just ❤❤❤❤❤ watch his fancams guys, he’s insane, i could literally watch him dance all day 😍🥰
actually while i’m rambling about Mingi’s dancing, another thing I love about his performances but its not really groove related, is how he incorporates his clothes and accessories in the performance. Seriously, I used to dislike how the stylists would always give him long coats to wear every stage UNTIL I saw them in concert and you can tell he’s subtly controlling those coats to swing out in a big sweeping move when he wants to, where he places his arms to create more interesting dance lines with the coats, its actually really cool and of course all his cool sunglasses and stuff. :D just very fun man to watch dance.
But I do like that he’s been branching out with more daring styles and outfits bc his body lines are so amazing too without a coat covering it up. Basically I love both now, both is good. Okay I’m done!! 😂❤
I really love Mark and Haechan's dance style they're one of the best dancer in NCT.
i've always noticed jungwon's close relationship to the music, his musicality is amazing, he always knows when and how to use groove to his advantage; such an underrated dancer. ofc jj takes the cake since hes been doing locking for god knows how long, its like he lives and breathes groove haha
Hoshi is a versatile dancer. He has that groove and precision in his dance and he applies it wherever necessary. Indeed one of the best dancers in the industry.
There's nothing more nice then watching Kpop dance youtubers who actually know what they're talking because you make such good points & teach us non-dancers a lot about dancing. I always wondered why I liked Trainee A JJ's cover of Mmmh a tiny bit more than even Kai's dancing, even when the latter is still among my top favourite idol dancers, it shows how groove & having that sensuality in your dancing actually makes a difference.
The fact that Jaemin is a groove-based dancer also explains why I enjoyed watching his fancams so much during Make a Wish era😅cause that's where he was really in his element.
I also enjoy watching clean, technical & popping dancers like Jisung, Ryujin, & Kai so it would be interesting to see a video in the same format explaining them (if you haven't made one already, if course)
You & Kpop Dance Deep Dives are 2 of my favourite K- youtubers❤
Oh my god that NCT video! When I first saw that video, I was just starting to get to know them and I thought Jaemin was the main dancer. It really shows how one style isn’t necessarily better than the other. It really depends on the type/genre of the song and the choreo itself. That video is such a good example of the contrasting style in dancing. And made me realize which one I prefer 😂
This was SO interesting, thank you! I love when knowledgeable people can explain things I can feel, but not put my finger on. With Easy, I always felt like Lee Know embodied the song, but I'd just sort of flail in his direction and say "doesn't the way he's moving just look like it sounds?" without being able to explain it 😭 And that also explains why (though he's my favourite SKZ dancer, recently followed by Changbin) in some songs a member with a different style draws my eye instead.
SONG MINGI, the groove king. His last name is "song" and rightfully so - he actually feels the song. When groove is called for, he's always gliding, sliding, rolling and flowing while not losing form. His iconic groovy ways made me fall head over heels in love.
proof that Sung Hanbin is iconic even pre-debut,, i love his versatility in switching from groove to less groovy based on what the performances call for
Ahhhh I love that you used that Jaemsung example! It's my favorite Jaemin dance video and really shows what Jaemin's capable of when he's in his element 😍😍
Same, coming across that video again after years is actually what inspired me to make this video lmao
i wish they give him more dance videos TuT
Grooviest idol is arguably EXO's Lay Zhang. That man was born to groove.
Ikr
love that guy
the way i was patiently waiting for mark lee to show up because i knew there was no way someone could make a video about groove and not include him
This is why I love WayV's choreos a lot cuz they combine both clean and sharp movements with soft and "wavy" moves. Plus they execute it with finess so it looks both clean and groovy. Kick Back and Action Figure demonstrate this a lot.
VOTE SUNG HANBIN TO KEEP HIS FIRST PLACE IN BOYS PLANET 🙏🏻
As an animator, this is extremely useful info and the sort of observational detail I obsess over 👍🏼
Firstly, I dunno where your channel came from but LOVE that this video found me, great work! You've put in to words what's sooo hard to describe at times because groove we sometimes just call "sauce" ha whilst less groovy dancers are seen as more mechanical when in reality they're just clean and technical. It's probably why XG are such a stand out performance wise for, they have so much groove in their choreo (Jurin, Cocona & Maya and even Chisa at times being stand outs) and probably why they're often praised for looking like they're having fun whilst performing.
There's definitely been a change in the type of choreo style that you find in K-Pop now as KDDD has explained many times with open style choreo being more common and idols dancing in ways that were not the norm years ago, B.I - Btbt being another great example. I personally love it and can't wait to see more of it because groove adds that extra personality to a performer when it's the right moment, Shotaro and Mark (ah i wrote about Mark before even getting to that part in the video ha) nowadays being great examples of this!
Jungwon, Jaemin & Allen, Jisung are some of my favourites to watch dance so loved seeing them in this video, I've literally included them in my top dance videos on my other channel haha. Sunwoo from the Boyz is probably another example of a groovier approach vs Q who is more technical but in that instance I love them both equally pretty much.
Great video once again!
The style that is now referred to as open style actually used to be infamous for not being very groovy, essentially using moves and technique from street styles for choreo but not really including groove, and boy group choreos have been choreographed by open style dancers since around 2010, which was the reason groove was disappearing from choreos around that time (1st and early 2nd gen choreos were usually very groovy, though usually more in that middle school hip hop hype way with a lot of jumping). Nowadays the trends in open style just changed towards more groovy execution (which I'm also really happy about). I'm talking about the history of commercial and open style dance in my 'sexism in kpop dance' video, in case that interests you 😅 I think most kpop youtubers come from other styles while I sort of lived through this change in the scene, so my perspective might be a bit different
@@facts_in_fiction Oooh interesting! I guess there's a big change between Shinee's Replay and Lucifer or Ring Ding Dong although the EDM era probably didn't leave much room for groove too?
I'll check that video out now!
As a dancer myself, in short, feeling the music is how you groove better, thinking and feeling is what differentiates a dancer who has it. In the words of the greatest pop dancer to ever grace this planet and crowned the King of Pop, MJ, "Thinking is the biggest mistake a dancer could make, you have to feel." It's what separated him as dancer from those who had less groove. Tho this never meant those who had no groove at all were anything less of a good dancer, bcs even a dancer without groove can execute a dance intended without groove. Both dancers have their strengths and I like how the video mentioned that. A dancer who can execute with both groove and no groove is an extremely talented dancer.
I'm someone who much prefers groove to sharp, intense, controlled movement. Watching tense dancers makes me tense, but watching groovy dancers makes me want to dance with them.
Also, I'm obsessed with Minho in Easy. He really makes it look so easy when it absolutely isn't. I think he's one of the few dancers that manages to find a perfect balance between being groovy and still looking clean and sharp. His tiger inside Fancam is a great example.
rare for a kpop video to make me feel like im learning something and not debating opinions. Thanks!
I love this video! I feel like lee know having groove in easy is why so many stays were obsessing over him fancams when the song came out instead of the other members, because you can see he's feeling the groove of the music, making it look easy, whereas the other members, while they're great dancers, didn't get as much attention during that era.
I also feel like Kai's ballet background makes him more focused in sharpness and precision in his dance steps. More like a habit since ballet dancers tend to focus on elegance, angles, and body controls. Still one of the greatest dancers in 3rd Gen and the whole KPOP.
Stylistic choice
Thank you for including Hanbin on your video!! 🤗
when i saw the title i immediately thought of JJ and so I clicked. how glad am I that you actually included him even if he’s still a trainee right now. it’s true that watching him makes you want to dance as well. he just makes it look so easy when in reality it takes real talent and years of experience to end up being that good. hope we get to see him debut soon.
I love this! Giving context to the history of groove and examples. Like you gave, J-Hope and Hyoyeon comes to mind first when I think of groove, although I'm not a fan of J-Hope music or bts. His definitely the Groove King of Kpop in my eyes and like pointed out I'm sure had to do with his experience as a street dancer. Same with Hyo who specialises in HipHop even working under the Janet Jackson.
As for those who lack Groove, Kai is perfect example. This probably has to do with his background in Ballet. Ballet is known to be a restrictive dance style and ballet dancers are taught to fight against urges of rhythm for a more technical style. So although it's made Kai a very technical dancer, his also lost a sense of Groove that he may have had if he didn't train in Ballet earlier in life.
Hobi is dancing itself !!! Every move he makes has swagger, and groove, naturally.
But he can turn it down, turn up the control and be very isolated, tight and precise. I mean if you have ever seen him dance, than you know his isolations and body contol are incredible. But he has also studied many different kinds of dance starting at a very young age. He belonged to a street dance crew, and attended a dance academy. He is incredibly versatile as a dancer, and in many, many other ways.
Hobi still continues to suprise me from time to time in the best of ways!
💜💜💜
Jhope is truly a one of a kind dancer/talent, and that just becomes more clear from his nicknames, lol, obviously.
Dance Leader🕺🏻/
Team Captain🕺🏻
👑King of Performance👑
🌞Golden Hyung, etc....
💜💚💜💚💜
I SWEAR THAT IF JJ HAD DEBUTED, I THINK HE WOULD BE THE BEST DANCER OF GEN 4 OR EVEN THE ENTIRE KPOP
tbh!!! but i believe he’s still gonna debut because he never left Korea even after the TraineeA project was cancelled
@@keiko8888 i hope so 🤞
He will certainly debut but not now. And yeah, he is the best dancer of the whole kpop!
I'm so glad you included Lee Know and Hyunjin in Easy cause I was so curious what you were going to say about them!! They have very different dancing styles that suit different kinds of moves but I've always preferred Lee Know because he hits EVERY beat on the mark and makes it look effortless. Hyunjin has a much more flowy style but sometimes I feel like it makes him look sloppy when he throws himself into it too much.
I understood that reference in mingi's part lol. I was also surprised when they called him a tension based dancer imo he's super groove
it’s nice to see san getting a lot of praises here. many non-fans and professionals think he’s a really good dancer and one of the best in 4th gen. you said he did really well with the law challenge and he actually has groove, he can do it but for him, it’s stylistic (i saw your comment). he chooses how to go with the song or how he prefers. San did taekwondo and boxing when he was a child. So I think in his dance style, those are also affected. It always amazes me the fact that this man didn’t know how to dance, even the simple steps so he was called the lead vocalist only when he debuted. but he worked really hard that now he’s in the lists with the best dancers and also one of the best dancers in ateez. i hope he always sees all the positive feedbacks
Oh so this is why my bias is Mingi in ATEEZ.. his dancing is so good to my eyes how he looks so effortless and so so free, like he’s just gliding on air. Like nobody told him that gravity exist 😭💕🖤
Yesyesyesyes I'm so glad I found this video!! I'm always frustrated that the "groovy" dancers never get as much time in the spotlight because the style isn't really incorporated much in kpop dance (sharp isolations and popping seem to be much more appreciated). Jhope, Minho, Mingi, Hanni etc. are my favorite type of dancers :D
Wendy truly slayed “Step Back” the most out of GOT The Beat imo and I think it’s because her musicality was the most on point (related to grove, right?)
this has literally opened my eyes to why i prefer certain dancers in a group over the "main dancer"
like i loved that u included jungwon bc although niki is member most praised for dancing in enhypen, i enjoy jungwons dancing a lot more bc of how he uses his whole body so well with groove and fully encaptures the choreography energy and has such sharp detail to where he adds rigidity
Same here op. All you see are praises towards ni-ki and I completely agree he’s one of the best dancers in K-pop but my eyes always goes to jungwon. The same goes for jaemin over jisung and Haechan over taeyong.
This video was an eye opener
@@prathikshamalaichamy1303 exactly!! jungwon has fluidity but also can be super sharp, whereas nikis dancing is mostly just sharp to me. jungwon adds little details that make him stand out to me(especially as a former dancer)
So this was the reason why I prefer lee know fancam over hyunjin fancam. I know both are talented, but I can't help the fact that lee know dance is so relaxed and looked easy. Now I know that I'm more groovy biased lol
9:55 I also get why you like San’s execution! I realized that clean dancing looks GREAT on people who have long limbs :)) like a move may seem like a quick snap for shorter limbs but longer limbs make a move look defined and intentional
groovy over sharp anyday, kpop needs more groove
Mingi's groove is soooo good... Like although he's a main dancer he's still too underrated.... Like he's such a good performer and dancer.... ATEEZ IS THE BEST
groove is THE thing that makes dancing fun
it's sad to see that stiff company studio style everywhere in kpop but I understand that no one can sing and dance both perfectly
You should do a video focusing on the 5 elements of dance (if you're interested and have time) - relationship, energy, shape, space, and time. When I majored in dance, these were the most important elements that we focused on everyday. I still use them as a dance teacher right now.
It would be cool if you did more videos like this one, where you clarified the meaning of different dance terms such as versatility, musicality, texture and dynamics and perhaps discussed what dance skills are often overlooked or even overhyped in kpop, especially by people who may not be very familiar with dance.
7:48 Now I understand better why every time I watch Lee Know dance I want to move my body like him just like water!!
Two K-Pop artists I think have natural groove are Taemin from SHINee and V from BTS. I also like Hanni from New Jeans.
Love this kinda in depth analysis, would like to see maybe relaxed vs tension dancers for your next vid
Seeing you put Jungwon as a Groove example just completely validated my impression of his dancing since I-land. I couldn’t figure out what about his dance style was so intriguing and appealing to me personally and your video provided an amazing/clarifying explanation!! Thank you.
yay so glad youtube recommended your channel to me! it's always nice to have dancers comment on kpop dancing in such detail. im gonna go binge watch all your other videos now
I am so fascinated with KPop performances. These detailed analyses and breakdowns explaining dance principles are extremely interesting for me! I appreciate the detailed explanations and examples, because I don't know the first thing about dance. Thank you so much for making these videos! You put into words some of the things I notice myself when watching fancams, and it's so satisfying cause your explanations just make it click for me. These are lessons for me ♡
i think for tutting choreos like naugty (where showed karina and ryujin), its best to keep it clean. That's the hardest part about tutting or voguing (which chungha also shows well by keeping it clean even though she has a groove to her when she needs it)
As a dancer I have to say Mark is probably one of the dancers with the most groove I’ve seen. He can definitely dance very clean and tune the groove down- but if you watch most NCT choreos he clearly dances in his own groovy style
Love this succinct and thorough video exploring what's groove and what isn't in kpop dances. Thank you.
I’ve always wondered why I don’t vibe with Kai’s style of dancing very much, I always found him a little stiff…. But this makes sense now
I love how you pair the examples! It really shows how different artists interpret songs differently.
Finally! Someone who really appreciates Jiwoo being a good hip hop dancer, girlie popped off with YDS and their Beat Run special stage the best. Also special mention to XG's Cocona and Jurin especially Cocona, she has that groove and Shooting Star proves it!! Kinda want your opinion on Lightsum's Juhyeon and Sangah although they don't have recent releases but still, especially Juhyeon, girlie is a great dancer technique wise and I love how she applies fluidity in every choreographies they have especially in Alive, every step she had it nailed right, from the alignment to the execution.
hanbin!!! 😍💞
sung hanbin!!
The way you incorporated the videos and the text made it really easy to understand! I think groove differences were *really* visible in the 90s Love example.
Also, I just watched through your channel because I love dance analyses and dance related content in general! I would *love* if you could do an analysis (or somehow incorporate it into any other video) on Rocky from Astro, who is, in my opinion, extremely underrated for being one of Kpop's top dancers.
His style is focussed on *extremely* precise, sharp lines and being grounded. He emphasises perfectly timed moves to the point of changing the original execution of a move by just one beat when covering a certain song just because he feels like it fits better. When participating on the competition show "Dance War", professional judges constantly gave him the highest of praise. After having learnt ballet from a young age, he's dabbled into a wide range of different styles, which makes him pretty versatile! His company did him pretty wrong by not promoting him properly.
Long story short, I'd love to hear what you have to say about him!
i personally love jungwon's dancing because he grooves with a lot of strength which you don't normally see in dance
Was interesting to see Jisung Jaemin example, for me often when I see Jisung side by side with another dancer, while hes clean something feels like its missing. I couldnt really explain what exactly and this video explained it really well.
i like your analyzes a lot, please continue!!
i used to not get why i don't find jisung's dancing as appealing as people say but now i know, i simply prefer groovier dancers! i also understand that groove vs no groove dancers can both be good depending on the song/choreo. thank you so much for this!
To me groove will always win over technical precision. Dancers without groove look robotic and also don’t give me the same emotion or hype me up like groovy dancers do.
Thanks a lot!! I have seen this word many times, tried to look for its meaning, and vaguely guessed but never fully understood until now. You explained it so well, wow!!
thank you for introducing jj, now i can't stop replaying his dance cover, he really did the best even better than kai imo
i couldn’t agree more. and being an exo-l since 2014 i couldn’t place why i didnt resonate with kai’s dancing style. on paper he’s so well trained classically and his proprioception is some of the best in the entire industry but his movements always seemed too influenced by his ballet foundations. sharp, clean, posture being tight and minimal use of loose movements and head/neck bops. i think the subtlety and control works really well with his solo stuff tho. taemin, jimin, kai, and san are standouts to me in terms of overall consistency and breakthroughs in performace styles.
taemin, jimin, kai and san. i couldn’t agree more
For kai stans it's hard to accept that technically he is not the best. He is not bad but he is notTHAT GREAT as his fans make him see.
Kai stands out more because of his stage presence and his facial expression that make his dance striking.
@@adeley9318 kai is not being best is just your opinion. objectively and according to professionals, he’s one of the best in the industry and personal comments like yours won’t change this fact so go ahead and have your own opinion anyway
@@sansppudding870 well he is chosen because he is from EXO one of the most popular groups and as i said overall his dance "doesn't look bad" but technically not the best
@@adeley9318who's the best!
Support Sung Hanbin from Boys Planet :)
this was good, i liked the way you analyzed the dancing styles and pointed out stuff i didnt notice before
not even finished the video yet, but this really helped me to realise why for Kai's Rover challenge I preferred the execution of some other dancers/idols over Kai's stage version! So interesting how the same choreography and basic movements can be interpreted so differently, I love dance analysis videos!
This is really interesting I felt the same way about this too. Especially Jungwon killed the rover cover, my favorite over all.
THANK YOU for including harry-june from dkb ! he is one of thee grooviest and most talented dancers in the industry despite only being 19 and from a very unknown group.
I love your videos theyre so interesting and detailed!! I didnt skip a single part, please continue more content like this as you do already!! ⭐️⭐️
That's incredible I don't know anything about dance but I still see the differences and get the point your explanations are so clear love it 🥰
I’m not a dancer but there was always something lacking in lots of Kpop dancing that I couldn’t quite point out and now thanks to you I realized it’s groove
I think you should take a look at Dayeon from Kep1er, she has experience in various genres but hip hop is her strength, and honestly she's one of the idols with best groove in 4th gen, it just comes naturally to her.
absolutely LOVED this video!!! so much work must've gone into it... i absolutely devoured all of your channel's videos, as a non-dancer, they are super instructive and bring up so many things i could've never noticed myself.
i see you included sung hanbin from boys planet in the video; i would love to see a ranking of some boys planet contestants (maybe top 28 or your favorite dancers!) if you ever have the time
I love the comparisons with different artists, but with the same songs. That makes it easier to get the difference 😄👍 Awesome video!
Thank you for making this video! I'm not a trained dancer but still I thought you explained it really well in a way I could really understand what you were showing in the examples. Good work!
Thank you, I'm glad it's understandable! I always worry whether I'm able to explain the concepts/terms to viewers who aren't familiar with them already haha