As an RACV roadside assistance patrolman, Waze is not only superior with speed accuracy but amazing for identifying where a potential breakdown vehicle is and warns others to slow down and watch out for me keeping me safe especially on freeways. I encourage everyone to not only run Waze but to report everything along the route. It could quite literally save mine and my customers lives!!
Unfortunately the sound seems to be an issue for me when I pair to my Polo. I can't hear the instructions even when putting the sound up. If I can sort that, I'll certainly use WAZE only
Google maps will it give directions in some o/s countries. Waze is so superior it’s not funny. I was warned today of a couple,coppers hiding up the road in a Victorian BMW Highway patrol station wagon with their speed camera.
Our Google maps speed indicator doesn't fluctuate like the example did,however if it's that inaccurate, that's concerning. One other issue, everyone thinks heavy trucks are speeding when they overtake on motorways and Highways,actuallytheir speed limiters are set more accurately than light vehicle speedos, so they're not speeding,they're running just below the limiter speed setting and the light vehicle speedo is inaccurate.
@@Harrybollox Looks like you shared a class with him. Accuracy doesn't care about the numbers involved - its about how close to the correct value it is and when there are different values the only easy way to quantify that is by using percentages. If you are 2k's over at 80 you're further away from the target value than 2k's over at 100.
@@Harrybolloxbut percentages do apply in another way, let’s say you get fined X amount for 15-30km/h over, 30km/h over at 60 is 50% over whereas at 100, it’s only 30% over for the same fine. Technically, there is only one offence, and that is speeding. 1 km/h and above the speed limit is the offence. The speed brackets are only used for the purpose of writing infringements.
Waze is a life saver. i have a crazy story. I was driving to Canberra around 9 pm in the dark and there was a dead kangaroo just in the middle of the road my waze app alerted me that there was an object on the road ahead, i just slowed down to 80 from 110 and in like 2 seconds there was a full grown dead kangaroo right in front of my car, had i not been alerted i would have hit it at 110 kph dead on. its crazy how useful it is and how solid waze community is about helping each other not to mention all other benefits. i use it all the time now.
and let me guess, you drove around it,. leaving it for the next person to hit? you're useless, you know that, right? just as useless as this supposed "test" was.
In the UK at least the requirement is that you drive at a speed that you can see the road ahead to be clear, presumably without the Waze warning you would have continud driving dangerously.
I commute to Melbourne every week and man, Waze gets pretty wild with the directions to avoid traffic. That should be your next test! Google Maps Vs Waze directions. Google Maps rarely diverges from the most appropriate highway route. Waze will take you through the backroads to get you there quicker, but I've got no way of actually determining whether Waze is saving me time or sending me on a wild goose chase. Either way it makes the morning drive interesting.
I feel that too. Lots of times waze will want me to take inner streets only to then come to a major busy road where I have to cross 2 lanes of traffic to enter. Sometimes its not worth the risk of doing that at peak hours and is easier to go with the flow and lose 1 minute. One time it made me take a bicycle path through a small park in order to get me across some rail tracks as well. Most recently it showed the fastest way home on single lane roads with backed up traffic all the way. I preferred going on the A road that was congested and slower, but had multiple lanes and kept moving, vs sitting still for traffic lights. I still use Waze all the time though, but try to use my judgement on roads that I am experienced with.
I found waze will tend to take all these back roads and it doesn't save any time, and you are constantly stopping and turning, then starting then stopping and turning
My experience with Google Maps is totally different to what you showed. The speed is always rock solid. It doesn't jump around like it did during your test.
Same. I don’t have this problem with Google maps on Apple CarPlay, wireless, could be a GPS signal related issue like people have said. It’s pretty accurate and doesn’t jump at all
Likewise, never had google maps jumping like that. Have run Google and waze against each other and had the same reading on both apps. Something was wrong with your google maps there.
If we just used the speedo in the vehicle, we’d never know, as long as the slower car isn’t fluctuating in speed , their slowness don’t bother me, it could be a new driver or a older cautious driver, have patience mate.
Real Story - a few months back I was pulled over by the HWY Patrol (I may have been speeding slightly). When I pull over Waze gave me a warning of Police reported up ahead - I responded by saying .....DER !!! BTW - I got a warning
Yup, I've never seen mine jump around at all. I've used both googlie maps and wayze and both show the same variance against my speedo when I'm on cruise control at a set speed. Perhaps the issue is only on iPhone and Google Maps, or even just that model. Not sure why you'd go to the trouble to get a speed detector gun and only test against one car and one phone model/ecosystem. Interesting test nevertheless. I've always assumed that my GPS was more accurate than the speedo, but it's good to have it verified.
@@-PORK-CHOP-lmao why do people always say stuff like that. It’s not that us (yeah, myself included since a few years ago) iPhone users don’t know Androids exist… Like can you say anything else or you’re a bot like almost every comment on UA-cam?
I recently retired from a major Police department after 25 years, I went to radar school a long time ago. The radar gun only gives an accurate speed if the vehicle is coming straight at it. Since there is an angle from the radar gun ,the benefit goes to the driver. The further you are parked away from the road with a bigger angle the speed on the radar gun decreases. Thats why the moving radar units in police vehicles are more accurate because the vehicle is coming straight at it on the road.
He is using a LIDAR device not a RADAR device. Completely different technologies. The angle he was at in relation to the approaching vehicle would not make any difference to the LIDAR'S accuracy.
In Victoria its almost impossible not to get a speeding fine at some time. Cameras are everywhere. And to increase revenue they've been aggressively lowering speeds on safe, wide, segregated roads by 20, 30, 40kmh so that even if you're literally crawling along, you're probably still doing more than the number they stuck on a pole last week. Exhibit-A princes freeway either side of Garfield. Used to be 110. Now 80. On a divided dual freeway. Meanwhile the unsafe, incompetent, aggressive driving we all have to put up with everyday, the stuff that causes real accidents, forget about it, our authorities have zero interest.
On the flipside in Melbourne's outer suburbs the biggest issue I face is drivers hogging the passing lane driving 15-20 below the speed limit. Unsafe, incompetent, underconfident, inconsiderate, inefficient drivers making it unsafe for those of us who actually can drive at the speed limit. That said there is absolutely no need for anyone to drive above the speed limit either whether on an 40,50,60,70, 80 or a 100 zone. Be safe, be smart.
You can do 80 though right? Like you don't have to do 110 in the 80 zone do you? I'm just kidding I know you can't. I'm a vic cop and we do change the limits on purpose to raise revenue. But we don't fine everyone. Just you and some others. We like to fk with the guys that say its about revenue raising because its not, we're just trolling. Funny shit. Also, your mull habit is out of control mate, next level. Watch out because no one wants a chill dude to turn into a paranoid psychotic .
And then there’s the ones that don’t understand why they shouldn’t pull out at 80 in front of a truck at 100 in their matchbox car, like it’s nothing. They have no idea but they won’t get a speeding fine so all good.
I'm a truck driver and use Waze as part of my MDT which is Android based. I also run Google on my Samsung and after 6 years of driving have found Waze MUCH more accurate than Google.
They should have rerun the test with Waze right away to see if it too was giving such fluctuations. GPS is based on signals from satellites and if you don't have enough of them overhead at the time the positioning (and thus speed reading) can fluctuate.
I cured my speedo by fitting 45 profile tyres in place of 40 (std) - this avoided the awful ride quality over our UK "speed bumps" and means that the speedo is spot on at speeds up to 100 mph - as tested on track. This also helps to protect my OZ alloys better too !
Professional drivers have been screaming this for years... Choose a speed, do your best to maintain that speed, drive in the appropriate lane for what the traffic is doing around you. Its not hard.
I have been using waze and have not had any speeding fines, my speedo is always showing 5 kmh over AS indicated. Your segment has now strengthen my case in using waze, as it is superior. Thank you
Looks like an Apple thing, I have Samsung S24+ and use Google maps, it never jumps up and down like your one did, it's always stable, been using it since it was implemented ran through hundreds of speed cameras in Sydney basing my speed in what Google Maps is saying, all ok.
I use Waze all the time for navigation, tracking accurate speed & changing traffic situations. Occasionally, I find myself even using Apple Maps over Google Maps. I only use Google Maps to discover nearby businesses, get reviews, etc, but very rarely for nav.
Very interesting video! here in the UK, a loooottt of people simply do not understand the rules and other variables around speeding tickets and what you can get way with. For example, my car normally shows about 8% above what I'm doing in terms of MPH. so it will say 32/33 when I'm actually doing 30, and 75/76 when I'm doing 70. But speed camera enforcement laws state that the speed to get a ticket is actually ((speed limit * 1.1) +2) or the '10% plus 2 rule'. So in a 70mph limit for example, you will have to do 79mph to get a ticket, and on the average car speedo, that's like low to mid 80's. So I do 80mph on my speedo (to play it safe) in a 70, and follow that rule elsewhere, so 34 in a 30, 45 in a 40, 56 in a 50, 67 in a 60 etc. Never had a speeding ticket once, and on top of that, its great for overtaking traffic sitting there at the "speed limit" unknown that when I fly past them, I'm still within the law 🤣
This is a good experiment as it shows the mechanical/electrical losses between the sensors and the readout. Across Europe, and I guess other areas speedometers have to read in the range of +10%/0. This range allows for tyre wear. New standard road tyres typically have a tread depth of 8mm and a minimum legal depth of 1.6mm here in the U.K. meaning a loss of 6.4mm on the rolling radius over the life of the tyre. For those that don’t know the rolling radius is the vertical distance from the wheel centre to the road. Inflation pressures tyre temperatures also change the rolling radius. The rolling radius determines the number of rotations the wheel makes over a given distance and speed is measured by counting the rotations and multiplying by a nominal circumference to give the speed. If you want to know your real speed use gps as the readout will always be more accurate than a mechanical/electrical speedometer.
You will find, however, if you pulled up speedo data with a scan tool, your digital speed in the computer was correct before. So now your odometer will be reading 3km/h too fast now.
car speedometer will never be accurate. too many variables that influence it's reading, rim size, tyre size, tyre pressure, & tyre thickness. it needs to be calibrated after every run. that's why car manufacturer put 5-10km/h tolerance.
I’ve been using Waze for this for years and have always breezed past. I saw Apple had introduced the speedometer feature recently as well, and it was jumping all over the place, similar to your experience here with Google. Only used it once and back to Waze for me.
4:23 and here is the issue with Victorian road safety… we spent years and millions of dollars telling everyone how 5km over the limit means instant murder, and now we have a state full of drivers who struggle to drive in a straight line and no concept of the physics involved in managing a vehicle safely.
Google maps hasn't only just introduced the speed feature, it's been there for a long time. I've found the Google maps speed to be steady and not jumping around, I'm on Android if that makes a difference though. Most cars I've checked have been around 4-5kph out, except a friend's 2002 Mitsubishi Verada, it was bang on the same as GPS at any speed.
It's nothing to do with Google maps or waze or any other app on the device - they ALL use the NMEA output from the GPS unit built into the phone or dash unit's hardware.
Yeah didn't they only just introduce the live speed readout. Previously it did display the speed limit for the road you were on but didn't actually reflect the speed you were doing in real time?
@@Devastator0 It must be on the Car play version of Google maps as it has been on the Android phone version for quite a while, I haven't seen it on the Android Auto yet but I haven't been in the car for a few days.
Australian Design Rules (ADR) A vehicle whos spedometer read 60, the actual road speed must be between 54 and 57 Km per hour. I worked in the car industrie for 27 years. In Quality Control and this was one of the tests that we were required to do on ALL vehicles
Disagree. The Standards require it to be at least 90% accurate. It does not require it to be no more than 57 at 60. Sounds like you are speaking from a manufacturer’s perspective, as they obviously don’t won’t to show a vehicle doing less than real speed. Highway patrol car speedos are set at 2% accurate. So that means 58 or 59 at 60 would be in breach of ADRs if we went by your standards.
Sounds like a Toyota thing perhaps? All my modern Holdens and fords have had the speedo read at worst 1-2 km more than my true speed, and this is a consistent difference, not a % difference that increases the error as the speed increases. I still have a VE, and it’s only 1km/h out at 100. My FG was out by 2 at 100, but with a slight change in tyre size, it’s spot on now. Other VEs,VZ, BF, BA and even AUs I’ve owned have all been within 2km/h at 100. The worst car I had was an ‘07 Subaru that was 9km/h out at 100km/h. A Camry I had in ‘06 was around 5km/h out.
BTW the actual design rule in ‘07 when I argued with Subaru was that a speedo could not read lower than the true speed, but it was allowed to be up to 10% optimistic with its reading, so displaying 109 when I was doing 100 was perfectly acceptable to them. Edit - just checked and it’s still the same ADR requirement.
@@Madracer09 Speedos ALWAYS read fast, if they read slow, they'd cause hundreds of speeding fines, the car manufacturers would get their butts sued off.....Think about it, It's ALWAYS been this way....
I don’t have this variation on iPhone so can we drop the Dsmsung shilling? I have tested both Gmaps and Waze. I find Waze less cluttered and more active community. YMMV
We tested our Peugeot 3008 GT / 2018 model and it's off by 4kmH ... I was told by police that live on my street that it's correct in saying that as car are design abit less as of 4k's when showing you're doing 100kmH means I'm doing 96KmH ... I very much believe that whatever they read, the intent is to give a fine as money collected for the State Government whichever way you see it! Thank you for this great video.
Back in the "old days" before GPS, if you asked the local HWP in my small rural NSW town nice enough they'd perform an on-road "speed check" for your vehicle with their calibrated radar.
When I’m driving interstate, I don’t use either Google or Waze. I use GPS speedcheck. I can’t vouch for its accuracy, but I’ve driven past highway patrol and have never been fined by a camera - yet.
I bought one of the kings heads up display units. It is also GPS based, and will always project up on my screen. Then I used 2 different GPS apps (which were both reading the same speed as each other) and used them to recalibrate the kings HUD (which was out by 5km at 100km/hr). I also checked the now calibrated kings unit against one of the overhead speed checkers on a fwy in Victoria. I found that the GPS apps and the kings now read exactly the same as the one on the fwy. funny enough, when I changed my 4x4 tyres shortly after this, to a larger (but still legal) size, my speedo was now reading the same as my GPS!
Google bought the app Waze a while ago, but they've kept them separate. This means different people run each app. I think Google Maps ratings aren't very accurate also! Google has been deleting my reviews for the past two months, even if they're similar to other negative reviews they've already posted. Because of this, the star ratings on Google Maps might not be real
I have an MG4 EV (in the UK) and it is the first car I've ever driven whose speedo is accurate - it shows the same speed on the driver screen as GPS apps (including Waze etc.) show on my phone. 🙂 (Cars in the UK - and I guess also the EU - *must not* under-read, i.e. they must not show a speed that is less than actual. However they are allowed to over-read by up to 10%, so an indicated 60 mph may be a real 54 mph).
In recent years I've had Ford, Skoda & BMW and the Ford had the most variance. Ford at 70 mph on the speedo was just 66.4 mph on my GPS so 3.6 mph / 5.8 kmh under. Skoda was 1.2 mph under @ 70. And at 70 mph indicated the BMW was 1.0 mph under with new tyre and 1.5 mph under with tyres worn close the the UK legal limit. The Andoid app I use is GPS Test and the variance between different smartphones was just 0.1 mph. Not sure what was going on with the Google app in the video, mine has always been stable and agreed with TomTom or GPS Test. It's also good to see someone else's experiments match my own findings, cheers.
Great and informative video Paul. As an Uber driver, I rely on accurate directions and hazard warnings - although sometimes Waze does get the routing incorrect - it has improved over time.
Waze will be using a longer sample time and refreshing the speed less frequently than google maps, thus showing a more constant speed. Google will be updating its speed multiple times per second, and that's why it's jumping all over the place. They are both reading the same information from the iPhone GNSS chip, but processing and displaying it differently. The high accuracy 1/4 mile and 0-100km/h GPS measurement devices like the RaceBox use Doppler GNSS measurements to calculate extremely accurate speed, distance and time. This is done without differential GNSS correction data. For precise, and accurate position and speed, RTK or post-processed kinematic GNSS observations are required. The vehicle you were testing was reading 5% higher than actual speed. Which is about average for most modern cars. I have an early 90's car that has a speedo that is spot on. My other late 00's car reads 10% faster than actual speed. One hilux I drove for work was only doing 85km/h when the speedo showed 100km/h When driving on the motorway with a signposted speed of 110, more than half the road users sit in the right hand lanes doing 105 km/h because they're scared of getting a speeding ticket wondering why everyone else in on their arse, or undertaking them. They're actually driving at 95km/h, doing 15km/h under the speed limit and causing unnecessary congestion all because manufactures err on the side of caution, so that the display never shows a speed that's less than the actual speed. Another reason that manufactures over estimate the speed, is for fuel efficiency calculations. If the ODO is showing 5% more distance than the car has actually travelled, the fuel consumption figures are instantly 5% better than the real world figures. With all the technology in new vehicles, they should use the internal GNSS (GPS) to constantly re-calibrate the speedo/ODO at regular intervals, so that even when different tyres, rims or gear ratios are installed, the computer automatically adjusts itself to show the driver accurate speed and mileage information.
Yeah, I’ve also thought about the the idea that the car should automatically calibrate its speedometer’s accuracy using GPS. In fact it would only need to do this one time! Because once you know the speedometer is permanently wrong, you just can’t appreciate it…
Have noticed this for a while now, when i worked at a hire car place most car from corolla to vf commodore etc, most were 4-5 some as 7 as 100 speedo 92 GPS.....once again the numpties in power making our roads slower so we spend longer on the road as some people "drop 5" so they can be doing 80 odd in a 100 zone 😂😂🤦♂️🤦♂️
I have an Ultraguage plugged into the OBD2 port of my FJ Cruiser, amongst the many gauges it gives me is a digital speedo, it reads 2 - 3km/h higher than the analogue speedo across all speeds, but dead on the same as Waze. I've been using Waze for many years, its hazard warning is excellent, it could be parked cars, roadworks, potholes, or even the Fuzz, it is a licence saver.
From all the cars I've owned in the past 30 years, from my experience the Tesla seems to have the most accurate speedo. It's almost dead on accurate with GPS speed. For 100kph the car is reporting, GPS is 98-99kph.
Waze is excellent the only thing that annoys me is people that report a car on the shoulder of the road when it is no where near the road , even behind a guard rail people still report it , crazy
I drive rental vans for touring guiding. I always use Waze. Recently I was pulled over doing 102 downhill. The cop asked me how fast I thought I was going. I told him I had just touched on 102. He agreed and waved me on.
Always use GPS for accurate speeds here. Plus in the UK speed cameras are set to a 10%+2mph tolerance. So you can do 78mph in a 70mph without fear of getting a ticket.
In Victoria, we had the +10% + 3kph, but they needed more revenue so got rid of the 10% and made it over 3kph, got a fine. Now it is at 3 kph over get a fine, Revenue over safety.
Ex auto industry engineer... Clusters were calibrated intentionally+3 or +4 km/h at 100 km/h. However that error decreases with speed, so at say 60, it might only indicate 61. Of course tyre size and other factors can affect it, but that will be the norm out of the factory for most cars
I changed tyres on my old 2003 Prado from standard Dunlop Grandtrek (28 PSI) to Michellin which I could run at 41psi for better “rolling resistance” / fuel economy- however savings were lost with speeding fines as was getting pinged for about 1-2 kms over the limit before running a GPS speedo on my phone! Good segment BTW!
Totally normal and has been this way basically forever. Nearly all motor vehicles will actually be going at 92-100kph at an indicated 100kph. The vehicle manufactures have done this not for safety, as you suggested, but because they need to be able to fit different sized rims and tyres for the different versions of each model. Plus there are optional wheels and tyres that also can be fitted. "The Australian Design Rules require that a vehicle's speedo must not indicate a speed less than the vehicle's true speed or a speed greater than the vehicle's true speed by an amount more than 10 per cent plus 4 km/h. This means that the vehicle's true speed must not be higher than the speed indicated by the speedo." So to ensure that the new vehicle being sold is not in breach of ADR's, the manufacturer ensure the speed is reading high. So when you hear someone complaining that they are doing the speed limit but everyone else is passing them and therefore they must be speeding, remind them that they are the ones traveling under the speed limit. Cheers
Fun fact, to avoid people abusing this, in Switzerland you get fined for even going 1kmh over the speed limit. And itll range from like 50-400 aud depending on the area
No and yes, you'll get a 40.- CHF fine for going 1 km/h over the speed limit. But when measured by a radar, you'll get 5 km/h measuring tolerance deducted. When measured with a laser, it's 3 km/h. So in a 50 km/h zone, you'd have to drive 56 km/h, get 5 km/h deducted with makes you 1 km/h over.
The fines are based on your income. The proportionality of economic hurt is the same for someone who's on the lower end of society (that can drive) to that of a multimillionaire. The 5 km/h fine is not the same from one recipient to the next.
@@zoe..din switzerland? that is false. Fines for small violations have fixed prices, that you can see in the OBV (Ordnungsbussenverordnung). Everyone pays the same. Speeding fines get measured by your income at: +16km/h within city limits +21km/h out of city limits +26km/h on the highway
Also repeat the test on an incline / decline as that should throw the GPS speed off as relative to the satellites your speed has changed slightly compared to your actual ground speed.
@@somat111 No point as the cameras are never set up on a hill or a descent, they always are set up on a flat section of road so if contested the answer is the road was flat so if the radar indicated a speed you had to be doing that speed as road conditions didn't assist such as downhill, same as cameras in the tunnels they are not on the entry or exits because these normally not flat, the cameras are always on the flat section in the tunnel
@@-PORK-CHOP- I assume you are being sarcastic, I see speed cameras on downhills all the time, another popular spot is at the bottom of a hill pointing back up the hill.
Ever since I started using my Garmin GPS Navigator I've always driven using GPS as my speed, and have never had a speeding ticket. (Now I use Waze as well). My only complaint about Waze, is the size of the display for speed. What would be an interesting one for you to look at is some of the GPS apps that show speed, but aren't navigator apps
Car Speedo error was consistent at both speeds and didn't change. 5 percent. 80 kmh x 5pc is 4 kmh 100kmh x 5pc is 5 kmh This is why hat wearing Camrys are so frustrating on the road - they think they are doing a conservative 95 and they are only doing 90 :)
Correct me if I'm wrong: but how is that "calibrated speed gun" accurate when you are measuring at an angle? Is the speed gun not measuring the speed of approach between the vehicle and the gun? Because the vehicle isn't directly approaching the gun. Its approaching the road to your left.
Hi Paul, Just wanted to say thankyou for confirming what we have experienced also. However both my wife & I have used Google maps to confirm our speedo's are incorrect by 4-5 KMH. By chance we have had the opportunity to to check our speed with roadside radar that displays your speed which has matched Google maps. We will try Waze now thanks to your research to compare. Love your work!
I hope everybody sees your video to learn their car isn't doing the 100/110 they thought out on the highway. My VE HSV is 98/100 and my Ranger is 96/100. I tend to think the manufacturers do this so your service comes around quicker. When my wife had a Hyundai that was 90/100. She was behind me on the freeway one day when I was in my Prime Mover and rang me and said I was speeding at 110km/h. Once she learned that the speedo was around 10 out as we all probably do we just add that missing speed to get up to the correct speed. I use my Ranger as a daily and sit on 104 in a 100
Great video guys! Waze user here for many years and have always trusted its accuracy across several vehicles but have also wondered how spot on it was compared to a calibrated speed checker so thank you for answering that! Possibly the only other consideration is the orientation of the phone whilst using. Weirdly I've noticed some fluctuations when the phone is stored somewhere forward of the gear shifter horizontally and I guess out of line of sight of the sky vs say on a dedicated air-vent or windscreen mount in a vertical position.
From my reading, the new ADR 18 says speedos cannot indicate less that the true speed, and over-indication accuracy is limited to a maximum 10 % plus 4ks. Most are about 6% from my reading.
The google maps thing, as others are saying, really looks like an apple issue. You mention they just introduced the feature, so it could be an early glitchyness, but it's been on Android for a while (like 5 years) and it's stable there. Apple has been pushing their maps in the last year or so and, given apples history, it wouldn't surprise me if apple is limiting it in some way.
This confirms something for me. The roadside speed indicators with the LED readouts have always seem to underestimate actual speed, and I have always wondered if police speed guns were similarly calibrated. If your unit is showing 3 or 4kph under, this also aligns with the old "10% grace" number...if you're caught doing 88 in an 80 zone, you're likely doing 92, and fresh out of excuses.
Hi there Paul, There is one other device that shows your speed and that’s the humble Navman dashcam, because it uses GPS , unless you drive through long tunnels, and is very close to the Waze app in terms of the speed displayed, in my case it’s about 3 to 4 kms under what the car speedometer displays.
Perhaps the problem with Google is how often the app recalculates speed. Both systems rely on GPS coordinates and time travelled since the previous calculation. I would be curious to see results on hills as I noticed my trusty Tomtom "loses" speed when climbing. Whatever the case, the car speedo will always register low and that's the safest system to trust.
Important to note that only the dash display speed is conservatively adjusted to comply with ADR. If you use an OBD2 reader such as ScanGauge it will display the correct speed without the need for GPS apps.
If you install a Scangauge or similar in your cars OBD2 port and set it up to read your speed you get the same speed as Waze i.e. the accurate speed. The cars computer knows the accurate speed in order to increment the odometer accurately but car manufacturers increase the displayed speed on your dash by 4 km/h. I have tested this on several cars and its always out by 4 km/h.
Not sure if say driving up or down a massive hill, the Wase or Google GPS speedo would be less accurate. Depending on how the GPS data signals work could be the following: 1. GPS may work in a one dimensional capacity only and if so, to know the real speed, would require a mathematical vector and/or trigonometry equations (eg theoretically, say one was driving vertically up, the GPS may indicate that one was travelling at 0 km/hr). or 2. The GPS compares the time signals it receives from the satellites with its internal clock. Knowing the speed of light and when the signals were sent and received, the device calculates distance from each satellite, and thus, one's longitude, latitude and altitude and thus also correct speed (depending on the quantity of satellite signals received).
My assumption, which you've disproven, is that both apps use the speed that the GPS subsystem tells it, but apparently that's not the case and each needs to be calculating it themselves. I like that Waze has an overspeed alarm, but don't like that the sound is more of an "ahem" rather than "Watch out!", and you can't change it.
As someone whonhasbusedbgos speed to determine how fast I can go (an how much under the limit other road users are travelling. Just be aware uphills and downhills will change the reading
Hi Paul, to get an accurate results with Google map you need to use an Android device it is way staple than Apple devices. I am a courier driver and I switched a lot between them till I figured out Android is better with Google map. Hopefully that is help and thanks for the great videos you always provide.
Just take care with the car’s speedo. I have an example with bmw idrive 8 cars. On my G42 M240i if you have your phone connected to apple carplay, the speedo will have an 1km/h over the waze constant, at any speed. I heard that on the forums but I can confirm that it will be pretty much spot on. I use it 100% of the time in the car. Even at 200km/h on the dash, on waze is 199hm/h. I don’t know if only bmw does that but the only way to test it is to compare waze vs dash speeds.
Dont forget the Cosine Effect. As you are measuring it from a slightly offset position. The vehicles are not approaching you directly. So actual speed may be very slightly higher than the Lidar measures.
Lets also not forget tyre size makes a difference, on my GU Patrol I went up to 33" tyres on the 16 rim (stock) which has brought my speed to exactly the same as GPS, so now I also know on the Speedometer, is the speed Im actually doing.
The cars speedo was showing the same speed on cruise as the waze test and not fluctuating, yet the Lydar gun gave different read outs. So the car speedo and waze was the only constant in all these tests.
Both speedo errors at 80 and 100kph were exactly the same. 1:20 or 5%. As you said, all factory speedometers are calibrated to be under. Good to learn about Google Maps. I'll stick with Waze. 👌
Detected speed by speed cameras are also reduced and adjusted by 3% of the detected speed. So even if your radar speed is detect at 62kph, you won’t get fined as it will be amended to the -3% calculation
Good vid guys - worth noting any app is 100% dependent on your device (and even location in your vehicle for sats to locate) and the app itself. I would suggest Waze has some sort of smoothing software wise, is very similar to the zillion other 'gps speedo' apps. Google Maps has a few tweaks to do software wise but the looks.
GPS Speed is derived from the doppler effect, it uses the compression of the known GNSS transmission code length and compares the time it takes to receive the signal vs how long the signal was. Each satellite (or SV as they are known) has an atomic clock on board, and this is frequently synchronised with ground stations which have VERY precise atomic clocks. The signal is time stamped at the start and end of the code broadcast, so the original length is fixed. If your travelling towards the signal then the signal compresses and the subtle change in timing is easily calculated to at least 1/100th of kmh, conversely the signal stretches as you travel away from a satellite and thus a speed can be calculated. It has nothing to do with position. Its all timing. But position is a function of timing anyway, that's how global position systems work. The P/Y/L Code offer varying abilities to detect atmospheric distortion to correct timings to bring down your position, by comparing the way different frequencies distort through the same atmosphere on their way to the receiver. having two receivers allows you to almost completely solve the integer ambiguity and almost remove all timing error through double differencing, but that is a topic of geodetic surveying beyond the scope of GPS speed ranging. It's worth noting that the fluctuations are more to do with the device and/or software, I would surmise that the developers have added the feature as more of a gimmick then a genuinely reliable tool compared with something like a Vbox for instance which uses dedicated hardware and software to measure the GNSS code via the doppler effect along with G-Sensors to track your performance numbers.
Phones aren't able to calculate speed using GNSS doppler. If they were able too, there would be no need for dedicated devices like the VBox, and we could just download an app that processes Doppler observations to display precise speed as well as 1/4mile and 0-100km/h acceleration times.
After years of driving heavy vehicles, I am absolutely convinced that passenger vehicles are actually made to read 5 kph above their indicated speed, and commercial vehicles (those that are registered as heavy vehicles) are made to display the actual speed.
I’m pretty sure car manufacturers put the 5% to cover their legal bases. On the VW cars with RNS510 head units, you can enter the diagnostic mode and reads the speed off the canbus, the car knows its actual speed and the speed displayed on the speedometer is 5% out.
The accuracy of GPS varies according to the number of satellites the unit is locked onto. I suggest you have a dedicated GPS handheld that can display how many satellites are available. There are many more satellites available now, but the configuration of available satellites is constantly changing. Ideally, you need an even spread of satellites across the sky.
Watching this, the speedometer is out 5% not 10% as you said (1kph per 20) which is pretty normal for most Australian delivered vehicles. Waze, GPS dash camera are all reliable as use multiple satellites and triangulate, hence many trucks use GPS telemetry for position and speed.
I thought it was 3kmh and 3% over 100kmh, wouldn’t surprise me if they’ve tightened that up in the name of revenue (Oh sorry, I mean safety) Victoria is a joke.
@@JFMagnet I'm not sure... think I quoted what was said in the video. I was booked in NSW, for being 6 kph over the 50 kph limit. The camera was placed on the side of a wide road that was descending and had little traffic. The fine came from *"NSW Revenue".* 🤦♂
GPS can be good as a guide, but is affected my many things as well as the receivers can be of different quality. I've often used my garmin watch to get the best comparison, using the multiband mode. Even that in the wrong situation can get it wrong. It was good here to demonstrate what can happen though.
The thing to remember is that gps information is being sent by satellites from approx 20,000km away, sending a signal through atmosphere which may be affected by cloud cover, humidity, pressure, and topography. People think it's more reliable due to the fact that its used in aviation and military activity; however, it must be remembered that their uses in aviation and military precision have no requirement for meter precision. For example, a plane might use it to track its approximate position and speed over a track that covers hundreds or thousands of km, and military attacks that use gps accuracy are usually dependent on a wide area of attack (eg artillery strike or carpet bombing). When the need for precision is necessary in aviation or military operation, they use controls that are localised and/or ground based, such as ILS or laser guidance. Compare this to your speedometer, which is programmed to know how many times your wheel is rotating in the last fraction of a second and can determine the speed based on its standardised measurements. However, the manufacturers know that not everybody keeps their cars measurements standardised; maybe you put 17inch rims on to replace your 16"s. At 60kph, your 16s are rotating at 6.27 times per second; but a 17 inch rim rotating at 6.27rps, is travelling at 61.24 kph, an increase of just over 2%. Your speedo doesnt know you put bigger rims on, so it shows 60kph. Thats why theyre given an overread tollerance of up to 5% (they can legally overread by 5%, but must never underread - ie, you cant be travelling at 82kph and reading 80kph), to allow for if you put bigger rims on the car, or higher aspect tyres. Thats also why a lot of states have a maximum of 2inches extra allowed on tyres, because at 60kph, 3 inches would actually add 8kph on top of what youre reading.
I've been using Waze for over 4 years now & use it on android. We have 2 vehicles and I normally use cruise control to lock in my speed at the posted limit. 1 car has adaptive cruise control the other vehicle is older and not adaptive cruise control. The first few times passing oncoming police vehicles was a bit scary seeing my car's speedo showing up to 8 kph above the posted limit and no tickets or traffic stops so far. In recent months with a new android device my GPS speed on Waze has on occasions fluctuated hugely jumping up or down by up to 40 kph while locked into cruise control, this doesn't occur all the time but has started to impact my trust with my indicated speed. I've tried to problem solve & read articles to see what's occurring with my GPS. This rapid increase & decrease seems to happen on rainy or overcast days, the other topographical difference has been multiple phone towers in the vicinity where it occurs. It'd be interesting to know if other users of Waze have observed similar GPS behaviour?
Next test ... put four phones in test car. 2 x iPhones and 2 x popular Android phones. Show us all on camera that you're running just one GPS app on each (Waze and Google's). Something wrong with your iPhone/reception if the speed is jumping around like that and Waze wasn't running at the same time as Google Maps.
As an RACV roadside assistance patrolman, Waze is not only superior with speed accuracy but amazing for identifying where a potential breakdown vehicle is and warns others to slow down and watch out for me keeping me safe especially on freeways.
I encourage everyone to not only run Waze but to report everything along the route.
It could quite literally save mine and my customers lives!!
@purehardstyles 💯 Also has " Object on Road " Which saved me one time. Some knob head, dropped his spare tyre on the freeway...
Unfortunately the sound seems to be an issue for me when I pair to my Polo. I can't hear the instructions even when putting the sound up. If I can sort that, I'll certainly use WAZE only
I have had google maps do everything you say waze does
Google maps will it give directions in some o/s countries. Waze is so superior it’s not funny. I was warned today of a couple,coppers hiding up the road in a Victorian BMW Highway patrol station wagon with their speed camera.
Our Google maps speed indicator doesn't fluctuate like the example did,however if it's that inaccurate, that's concerning. One other issue, everyone thinks heavy trucks are speeding when they overtake on motorways and Highways,actuallytheir speed limiters are set more accurately than light vehicle speedos, so they're not speeding,they're running just below the limiter speed setting and the light vehicle speedo is inaccurate.
Going faster didn’t change the inaccuracy.
The error is 5% in both examples of 80 and 100 kph.
Correct. Our erstwhile reporter works that out to be 10%. Clearly he failed common sense and maths at primary school.
Percentages do not apply in speeding fines, it’s pure kmh
@@einfelder8262 I came here to say that!
@@Harrybollox Looks like you shared a class with him. Accuracy doesn't care about the numbers involved - its about how close to the correct value it is and when there are different values the only easy way to quantify that is by using percentages.
If you are 2k's over at 80 you're further away from the target value than 2k's over at 100.
@@Harrybolloxbut percentages do apply in another way, let’s say you get fined X amount for 15-30km/h over, 30km/h over at 60 is 50% over whereas at 100, it’s only 30% over for the same fine. Technically, there is only one offence, and that is speeding. 1 km/h and above the speed limit is the offence. The speed brackets are only used for the purpose of writing infringements.
Waze has saved my ass too many times times to count. I can't drive without it running.
Same
💯 Plus the sneaky Police reports, you can post.
Same, thanks to the input of others.
Same here. When I moved out here, I wasn't used to all the speed cameras. But Waze made me an instant veteran
same 🙂
Waze is a life saver. i have a crazy story. I was driving to Canberra around 9 pm in the dark and there was a dead kangaroo just in the middle of the road my waze app alerted me that there was an object on the road ahead, i just slowed down to 80 from 110 and in like 2 seconds there was a full grown dead kangaroo right in front of my car, had i not been alerted i would have hit it at 110 kph dead on. its crazy how useful it is and how solid waze community is about helping each other not to mention all other benefits. i use it all the time now.
It's people on waze reporting it, it doesn't just know
@@notxander6838 He knows, he literally mentioned the helpful Waze community at the end of the comment.
and let me guess, you drove around it,. leaving it for the next person to hit?
you're useless, you know that, right? just as useless as this supposed "test" was.
In the UK at least the requirement is that you drive at a speed that you can see the road ahead to be clear, presumably without the Waze warning you would have continud driving dangerously.
I commute to Melbourne every week and man, Waze gets pretty wild with the directions to avoid traffic. That should be your next test! Google Maps Vs Waze directions. Google Maps rarely diverges from the most appropriate highway route. Waze will take you through the backroads to get you there quicker, but I've got no way of actually determining whether Waze is saving me time or sending me on a wild goose chase.
Either way it makes the morning drive interesting.
I feel that too. Lots of times waze will want me to take inner streets only to then come to a major busy road where I have to cross 2 lanes of traffic to enter. Sometimes its not worth the risk of doing that at peak hours and is easier to go with the flow and lose 1 minute. One time it made me take a bicycle path through a small park in order to get me across some rail tracks as well. Most recently it showed the fastest way home on single lane roads with backed up traffic all the way. I preferred going on the A road that was congested and slower, but had multiple lanes and kept moving, vs sitting still for traffic lights.
I still use Waze all the time though, but try to use my judgement on roads that I am experienced with.
I found waze will tend to take all these back roads and it doesn't save any time, and you are constantly stopping and turning, then starting then stopping and turning
You’ll need 2 people to drive for that test at the exact same time and follow every road rule.
@@13965082 Pretty sure that's something they could manage.
Invariably when I ignore Waze I end up in a traffic jam so opt for following its guidance … works for me 😁
My experience with Google Maps is totally different to what you showed. The speed is always rock solid. It doesn't jump around like it did during your test.
Is it possible that the stability of the Google Maps speed reading is affected by the make and model of phone that you are using?
Could be less consistent satellite coverage
Same. I don’t have this problem with Google maps on Apple CarPlay, wireless, could be a GPS signal related issue like people have said. It’s pretty accurate and doesn’t jump at all
Likewise, never had google maps jumping like that.
Have run Google and waze against each other and had the same reading on both apps.
Something was wrong with your google maps there.
@@cedriclynchgood point. I wonder if the same phone was used for both Waze and Maps.
Already knew this.
Hence, people driving in the right lane doing 95 is really annoying.
You mean the one who's overtaking that you're tailgating?
If we just used the speedo in the vehicle, we’d never know, as long as the slower car isn’t fluctuating in speed , their slowness don’t bother me, it could be a new driver or a older cautious driver, have patience mate.
You missed the best feature of Waze to report Police and speed camera locations
Allegedly ??
But that’s not what Waze is for; it’s only for reporting potential hazards on the road. 😂😂😂
You can do this on google maps
Real Story - a few months back I was pulled over by the HWY Patrol (I may have been speeding slightly). When I pull over Waze gave me a warning of Police reported up ahead - I responded by saying .....DER !!!
BTW - I got a warning
Shhhhhh! All we need is legislation to outlaw Waze
The google maps speed on my Samsung is pretty stable :)
Yup, I've never seen mine jump around at all. I've used both googlie maps and wayze and both show the same variance against my speedo when I'm on cruise control at a set speed. Perhaps the issue is only on iPhone and Google Maps, or even just that model. Not sure why you'd go to the trouble to get a speed detector gun and only test against one car and one phone model/ecosystem.
Interesting test nevertheless. I've always assumed that my GPS was more accurate than the speedo, but it's good to have it verified.
@@wanderer397 Yes, fanboys don't think anything exists outside their little apple community 🤣🤣😂😂😂😂
100%
@@-PORK-CHOP-lmao why do people always say stuff like that. It’s not that us (yeah, myself included since a few years ago) iPhone users don’t know Androids exist…
Like can you say anything else or you’re a bot like almost every comment on UA-cam?
same here
I recently retired from a major Police department after 25 years, I went to radar school a long time ago. The radar gun only gives an accurate speed if the vehicle is coming straight at it. Since there is an angle from the radar gun ,the benefit goes to the driver. The further you are parked away from the road with a bigger angle the speed on the radar gun decreases. Thats why the moving radar units in police vehicles are more accurate because the vehicle is coming straight at it on the road.
only with radar, diferent with radar.
Also the iphones gps recievers are garbage, they always have been.
@@SteveBbb-y6dwell he just showed the iPhone was bang on, soo you’re talking out of your backside
He is using a LIDAR device not a RADAR device. Completely different technologies. The angle he was at in relation to the approaching vehicle would not make any difference to the LIDAR'S accuracy.
In Victoria its almost impossible not to get a speeding fine at some time. Cameras are everywhere. And to increase revenue they've been aggressively lowering speeds on safe, wide, segregated roads by 20, 30, 40kmh so that even if you're literally crawling along, you're probably still doing more than the number they stuck on a pole last week. Exhibit-A princes freeway either side of Garfield. Used to be 110. Now 80. On a divided dual freeway. Meanwhile the unsafe, incompetent, aggressive driving we all have to put up with everyday, the stuff that causes real accidents, forget about it, our authorities have zero interest.
On the flipside in Melbourne's outer suburbs the biggest issue I face is drivers hogging the passing lane driving 15-20 below the speed limit. Unsafe, incompetent, underconfident, inconsiderate, inefficient drivers making it unsafe for those of us who actually can drive at the speed limit. That said there is absolutely no need for anyone to drive above the speed limit either whether on an 40,50,60,70, 80 or a 100 zone. Be safe, be smart.
Thats why vic sucks mate, too many toll, too much sneaky cops, revenue generator for vic govt.
Nonsense
You can do 80 though right? Like you don't have to do 110 in the 80 zone do you? I'm just kidding I know you can't. I'm a vic cop and we do change the limits on purpose to raise revenue. But we don't fine everyone. Just you and some others. We like to fk with the guys that say its about revenue raising because its not, we're just trolling. Funny shit. Also, your mull habit is out of control mate, next level. Watch out because no one wants a chill dude to turn into a paranoid psychotic .
And then there’s the ones that don’t understand why they shouldn’t pull out at 80 in front of a truck at 100 in their matchbox car, like it’s nothing. They have no idea but they won’t get a speeding fine so all good.
I use Google maps on my Android and I can't say I've ever seen it fluctuate like that.
I'm a truck driver and use Waze as part of my MDT which is Android based. I also run Google on my Samsung and after 6 years of driving have found Waze MUCH more accurate than Google.
Google Maps never fluctuates like that for me either and running a cheap old android phone.
They should have rerun the test with Waze right away to see if it too was giving such fluctuations. GPS is based on signals from satellites and if you don't have enough of them overhead at the time the positioning (and thus speed reading) can fluctuate.
Same for me
I cured my speedo by fitting 45 profile tyres in place of 40 (std) - this avoided the awful ride quality over our UK "speed bumps" and means that the speedo is spot on at speeds up to 100 mph - as tested on track. This also helps to protect my OZ alloys better too !
Professional drivers have been screaming this for years... Choose a speed, do your best to maintain that speed, drive in the appropriate lane for what the traffic is doing around you. Its not hard.
Waze is not only about speed cameras, users can also report dangers and it gives you shortcut
I have been using waze and have not had any speeding fines, my speedo is always showing 5 kmh over AS indicated. Your segment has now strengthen my case in using waze, as it is superior. Thank you
Looks like an Apple thing, I have Samsung S24+ and use Google maps, it never jumps up and down like your one did, it's always stable, been using it since it was implemented ran through hundreds of speed cameras in Sydney basing my speed in what Google Maps is saying, all ok.
Agreed ditch the apple and use an android for Google maps, I've never had fluctuations on my Google Pixel
I agree. I've been using Google on my Samsung Galaxy and it shows the exact same speed Waze shows, without jumping all over the place like in Apple.
I’ve got a 14 pro and have no issues.
My workphone is a 15 Pro Max and it jumps all over too. My older Android LG is rock solid.
100% THIS. Samsung devices are actually accurate. iPhone are crap for all kinds of sensor accuracy
I use Waze all the time for navigation, tracking accurate speed & changing traffic situations. Occasionally, I find myself even using Apple Maps over Google Maps. I only use Google Maps to discover nearby businesses, get reviews, etc, but very rarely for nav.
Very interesting video! here in the UK, a loooottt of people simply do not understand the rules and other variables around speeding tickets and what you can get way with. For example, my car normally shows about 8% above what I'm doing in terms of MPH. so it will say 32/33 when I'm actually doing 30, and 75/76 when I'm doing 70.
But speed camera enforcement laws state that the speed to get a ticket is actually ((speed limit * 1.1) +2) or the '10% plus 2 rule'. So in a 70mph limit for example, you will have to do 79mph to get a ticket, and on the average car speedo, that's like low to mid 80's. So I do 80mph on my speedo (to play it safe) in a 70, and follow that rule elsewhere, so 34 in a 30, 45 in a 40, 56 in a 50, 67 in a 60 etc.
Never had a speeding ticket once, and on top of that, its great for overtaking traffic sitting there at the "speed limit" unknown that when I fly past them, I'm still within the law 🤣
The 10%+2 is a guide, it isn’t law. and not all police forces use it so do not rely on it as it won’t stand up in court!
Very informative video guys, thanks!
This is a good experiment as it shows the mechanical/electrical losses between the sensors and the readout. Across Europe, and I guess other areas speedometers have to read in the range of +10%/0. This range allows for tyre wear.
New standard road tyres typically have a tread depth of 8mm and a minimum legal depth of 1.6mm here in the U.K. meaning a loss of 6.4mm on the rolling radius over the life of the tyre. For those that don’t know the rolling radius is the vertical distance from the wheel centre to the road.
Inflation pressures tyre temperatures also change the rolling radius. The rolling radius determines the number of rotations the wheel makes over a given distance and speed is measured by counting the rotations and multiplying by a nominal circumference to give the speed.
If you want to know your real speed use gps as the readout will always be more accurate than a mechanical/electrical speedometer.
Just installed 10mm higher tyres, speed at an indicated 100 was a real 95, now its at 98. More accurate.
You will find, however, if you pulled up speedo data with a scan tool, your digital speed in the computer was correct before. So now your odometer will be reading 3km/h too fast now.
car speedometer will never be accurate. too many variables that influence it's reading, rim size, tyre size, tyre pressure, & tyre thickness. it needs to be calibrated after every run. that's why car manufacturer put 5-10km/h tolerance.
I’ve been using Waze for this for years and have always breezed past.
I saw Apple had introduced the speedometer feature recently as well, and it was jumping all over the place, similar to your experience here with Google.
Only used it once and back to Waze for me.
4:23 and here is the issue with Victorian road safety… we spent years and millions of dollars telling everyone how 5km over the limit means instant murder, and now we have a state full of drivers who struggle to drive in a straight line and no concept of the physics involved in managing a vehicle safely.
I wish more people knew this and calibrate the speeds they do with a gps speedo app. May make them feel less entitled to hog the right lane.
Google maps hasn't only just introduced the speed feature, it's been there for a long time.
I've found the Google maps speed to be steady and not jumping around, I'm on Android if that makes a difference though.
Most cars I've checked have been around 4-5kph out, except a friend's 2002 Mitsubishi Verada, it was bang on the same as GPS at any speed.
It's nothing to do with Google maps or waze or any other app on the device - they ALL use the NMEA output from the GPS unit built into the phone or dash unit's hardware.
Yeah didn't they only just introduce the live speed readout. Previously it did display the speed limit for the road you were on but didn't actually reflect the speed you were doing in real time?
@@einfelder8262 finally someone said it
@@Devastator0 It must be on the Car play version of Google maps as it has been on the Android phone version for quite a while, I haven't seen it on the Android Auto yet but I haven't been in the car for a few days.
Nope not if you're using it on android auto.
Australian Design Rules (ADR) A vehicle whos spedometer read 60, the actual road speed must be between 54 and 57 Km per hour. I worked in the car industrie for 27 years. In Quality Control and this was one of the tests that we were required to do on ALL vehicles
Disagree. The Standards require it to be at least 90% accurate. It does not require it to be no more than 57 at 60. Sounds like you are speaking from a manufacturer’s perspective, as they obviously don’t won’t to show a vehicle doing less than real speed. Highway patrol car speedos are set at 2% accurate. So that means 58 or 59 at 60 would be in breach of ADRs if we went by your standards.
Sounds like a Toyota thing perhaps? All my modern Holdens and fords have had the speedo read at worst 1-2 km more than my true speed, and this is a consistent difference, not a % difference that increases the error as the speed increases. I still have a VE, and it’s only 1km/h out at 100. My FG was out by 2 at 100, but with a slight change in tyre size, it’s spot on now. Other VEs,VZ, BF, BA and even AUs I’ve owned have all been within 2km/h at 100.
The worst car I had was an ‘07 Subaru that was 9km/h out at 100km/h. A Camry I had in ‘06 was around 5km/h out.
BTW the actual design rule in ‘07 when I argued with Subaru was that a speedo could not read lower than the true speed, but it was allowed to be up to 10% optimistic with its reading, so displaying 109 when I was doing 100 was perfectly acceptable to them.
Edit - just checked and it’s still the same ADR requirement.
@@Madracer09 Speedos ALWAYS read fast, if they read slow, they'd cause hundreds of speeding fines, the car manufacturers would get their butts sued off.....Think about it, It's ALWAYS been this way....
@@commodorenut Read my other comment, they ALL read "optimistic", and for good reason....
I think you mean to say "Don't rely on Google Maps with an iPhone" - i havn't got this fluctuation on any of my Samsung phones.
It’s media through the car ya fool 💀
I don’t have this variation on iPhone so can we drop the Dsmsung shilling? I have tested both Gmaps and Waze. I find Waze less cluttered and more active community. YMMV
Doesn’t it have a Google maps app on the car…
Here in South Africa we are allowed 10kph over any speed limit, not a percentage.
In STH Australia, my old licence use to say ‘not to exceed any speed limit by more than 10kmh’.
We tested our Peugeot 3008 GT / 2018 model and it's off by 4kmH ... I was told by police that live on my street that it's correct in saying that as car are design abit less as of 4k's when showing you're doing 100kmH means I'm doing 96KmH ... I very much believe that whatever they read, the intent is to give a fine as money collected for the State Government whichever way you see it! Thank you for this great video.
Seems like real law enforcement begins only after they have made budget.
What about using a Garmin Sat Nav. How accurate are they compared to your speed gun.
I've been using Waze for 5 years now, and I've never gone back to Google Maps to be my daily.
Back in the "old days" before GPS, if you asked the local HWP in my small rural NSW town nice enough they'd perform an on-road "speed check" for your vehicle with their calibrated radar.
When I’m driving interstate, I don’t use either Google or Waze. I use GPS speedcheck.
I can’t vouch for its accuracy, but I’ve driven past highway patrol and have never been fined by a camera - yet.
You’re 100% correct. I’ve used Waze all over the world and it is the single best one for accuracy.
just set the cruise control on the road speed limit an enjoy driving and don't stress bu constantly checking the speedo
I bought one of the kings heads up display units. It is also GPS based, and will always project up on my screen. Then I used 2 different GPS apps (which were both reading the same speed as each other) and used them to recalibrate the kings HUD (which was out by 5km at 100km/hr). I also checked the now calibrated kings unit against one of the overhead speed checkers on a fwy in Victoria. I found that the GPS apps and the kings now read exactly the same as the one on the fwy. funny enough, when I changed my 4x4 tyres shortly after this, to a larger (but still legal) size, my speedo was now reading the same as my GPS!
Google bought the app Waze a while ago, but they've kept them separate. This means different people run each app.
I think Google Maps ratings aren't very accurate also! Google has been deleting my reviews for the past two months, even if they're similar to other negative reviews they've already posted. Because of this, the star ratings on Google Maps might not be real
I have an MG4 EV (in the UK) and it is the first car I've ever driven whose speedo is accurate - it shows the same speed on the driver screen as GPS apps (including Waze etc.) show on my phone. 🙂
(Cars in the UK - and I guess also the EU - *must not* under-read, i.e. they must not show a speed that is less than actual. However they are allowed to over-read by up to 10%, so an indicated 60 mph may be a real 54 mph).
In recent years I've had Ford, Skoda & BMW and the Ford had the most variance. Ford at 70 mph on the speedo was just 66.4 mph on my GPS so 3.6 mph / 5.8 kmh under. Skoda was 1.2 mph under @ 70. And at 70 mph indicated the BMW was 1.0 mph under with new tyre and 1.5 mph under with tyres worn close the the UK legal limit. The Andoid app I use is GPS Test and the variance between different smartphones was just 0.1 mph.
Not sure what was going on with the Google app in the video, mine has always been stable and agreed with TomTom or GPS Test. It's also good to see someone else's experiments match my own findings, cheers.
Great and informative video Paul. As an Uber driver, I rely on accurate directions and hazard warnings - although sometimes Waze does get the routing incorrect - it has improved over time.
Waze will be using a longer sample time and refreshing the speed less frequently than google maps, thus showing a more constant speed.
Google will be updating its speed multiple times per second, and that's why it's jumping all over the place.
They are both reading the same information from the iPhone GNSS chip, but processing and displaying it differently.
The high accuracy 1/4 mile and 0-100km/h GPS measurement devices like the RaceBox use Doppler GNSS measurements to calculate extremely accurate speed, distance and time. This is done without differential GNSS correction data.
For precise, and accurate position and speed, RTK or post-processed kinematic GNSS observations are required.
The vehicle you were testing was reading 5% higher than actual speed. Which is about average for most modern cars. I have an early 90's car that has a speedo that is spot on. My other late 00's car reads 10% faster than actual speed. One hilux I drove for work was only doing 85km/h when the speedo showed 100km/h
When driving on the motorway with a signposted speed of 110, more than half the road users sit in the right hand lanes doing 105 km/h because they're scared of getting a speeding ticket wondering why everyone else in on their arse, or undertaking them. They're actually driving at 95km/h, doing 15km/h under the speed limit and causing unnecessary congestion all because manufactures err on the side of caution, so that the display never shows a speed that's less than the actual speed.
Another reason that manufactures over estimate the speed, is for fuel efficiency calculations. If the ODO is showing 5% more distance than the car has actually travelled, the fuel consumption figures are instantly 5% better than the real world figures. With all the technology in new vehicles, they should use the internal GNSS (GPS) to constantly re-calibrate the speedo/ODO at regular intervals, so that even when different tyres, rims or gear ratios are installed, the computer automatically adjusts itself to show the driver accurate speed and mileage information.
Yeah, I’ve also thought about the the idea that the car should automatically calibrate its speedometer’s accuracy using GPS. In fact it would only need to do this one time! Because once you know the speedometer is permanently wrong, you just can’t appreciate it…
Have noticed this for a while now, when i worked at a hire car place most car from corolla to vf commodore etc, most were 4-5 some as 7 as 100 speedo 92 GPS.....once again the numpties in power making our roads slower so we spend longer on the road as some people "drop 5" so they can be doing 80 odd in a 100 zone 😂😂🤦♂️🤦♂️
I have an Ultraguage plugged into the OBD2 port of my FJ Cruiser, amongst the many gauges it gives me is a digital speedo, it reads 2 - 3km/h higher than the analogue speedo across all speeds, but dead on the same as Waze. I've been using Waze for many years, its hazard warning is excellent, it could be parked cars, roadworks, potholes, or even the Fuzz, it is a licence saver.
From all the cars I've owned in the past 30 years, from my experience the Tesla seems to have the most accurate speedo. It's almost dead on accurate with GPS speed. For 100kph the car is reporting, GPS is 98-99kph.
Yep - was driving a Model Y the other day and I concluded it was reading about 1.5 over, on average. (brand new tyres)
Consistent with what I saw on my model 3 too. Basically means don’t assume you have a comfy 10% buffer when driving.
I’ve got a brand new BMW X3 that is basically spot on too. Surprised me actually.
Waze is excellent the only thing that annoys me is people that report a car on the shoulder of the road when it is no where near the road , even behind a guard rail people still report it , crazy
Great/interesting video guys, accuracy didn't change though, 5% at 80 and 5% at 100
I drive rental vans for touring guiding. I always use Waze. Recently I was pulled over doing 102 downhill. The cop asked me how fast I thought I was going. I told him I had just touched on 102. He agreed and waved me on.
Always use GPS for accurate speeds here. Plus in the UK speed cameras are set to a 10%+2mph tolerance. So you can do 78mph in a 70mph without fear of getting a ticket.
In Victoria, we had the +10% + 3kph, but they needed more revenue so got rid of the 10% and made it over 3kph, got a fine. Now it is at 3 kph over get a fine, Revenue over safety.
When I bought new tyres I fitted 55 profile tyres in place of the 50s. The speedo now reads actual speed and I can now confidently drive on the limit.
This was very helpful. It's been something that I have been wondering about for some time. I use Waze as well.
Ex auto industry engineer... Clusters were calibrated intentionally+3 or +4 km/h at 100 km/h. However that error decreases with speed, so at say 60, it might only indicate 61. Of course tyre size and other factors can affect it, but that will be the norm out of the factory for most cars
i am not an auto engineer
the speed indicated is always 3 below gps speed whatever speed. (Hyundai ioniq and kona)
I changed tyres on my old 2003 Prado from standard Dunlop Grandtrek (28 PSI) to Michellin which I could run at 41psi for better “rolling resistance” / fuel economy- however savings were lost with speeding fines as was getting pinged for about 1-2 kms over the limit before running a GPS speedo on my phone!
Good segment BTW!
Totally normal and has been this way basically forever. Nearly all motor vehicles will actually be going at 92-100kph at an indicated 100kph. The vehicle manufactures have done this not for safety, as you suggested, but because they need to be able to fit different sized rims and tyres for the different versions of each model. Plus there are optional wheels and tyres that also can be fitted. "The Australian Design Rules require that a vehicle's speedo must not indicate a speed less than the vehicle's true speed or a speed greater than the vehicle's true speed by an amount more than 10 per cent plus 4 km/h. This means that the vehicle's true speed must not be higher than the speed indicated by the speedo." So to ensure that the new vehicle being sold is not in breach of ADR's, the manufacturer ensure the speed is reading high. So when you hear someone complaining that they are doing the speed limit but everyone else is passing them and therefore they must be speeding, remind them that they are the ones traveling under the speed limit. Cheers
Fun fact, to avoid people abusing this, in Switzerland you get fined for even going 1kmh over the speed limit. And itll range from like 50-400 aud depending on the area
No and yes, you'll get a 40.- CHF fine for going 1 km/h over the speed limit.
But when measured by a radar, you'll get 5 km/h measuring tolerance deducted. When measured with a laser, it's 3 km/h.
So in a 50 km/h zone, you'd have to drive 56 km/h, get 5 km/h deducted with makes you 1 km/h over.
The fines are based on your income. The proportionality of economic hurt is the same for someone who's on the lower end of society (that can drive) to that of a multimillionaire. The 5 km/h fine is not the same from one recipient to the next.
@@zoe..din switzerland? that is false. Fines for small violations have fixed prices, that you can see in the OBV (Ordnungsbussenverordnung). Everyone pays the same.
Speeding fines get measured by your income at:
+16km/h within city limits
+21km/h out of city limits
+26km/h on the highway
@@TheYamyam97 ah, thanks! I only had half the picture.
Might be worth redoing this with an Android phone. Especially for Google maps
Yep I think it's worth us trying this again with Apple v Android.
Also repeat the test on an incline / decline as that should throw the GPS speed off as relative to the satellites your speed has changed slightly compared to your actual ground speed.
@@somat111 No point as the cameras are never set up on a hill or a descent, they always are set up on a flat section of road so if contested the answer is the road was flat so if the radar indicated a speed you had to be doing that speed as road conditions didn't assist such as downhill, same as cameras in the tunnels they are not on the entry or exits because these normally not flat, the cameras are always on the flat section in the tunnel
@@-PORK-CHOP- I assume you are being sarcastic, I see speed cameras on downhills all the time, another popular spot is at the bottom of a hill pointing back up the hill.
@carexpertaus 4km at 80kph is 5%.... Speedo accuracy is always inaccurate via a percentage.
Ever since I started using my Garmin GPS Navigator I've always driven using GPS as my speed, and have never had a speeding ticket. (Now I use Waze as well). My only complaint about Waze, is the size of the display for speed.
What would be an interesting one for you to look at is some of the GPS apps that show speed, but aren't navigator apps
Car Speedo error was consistent at both speeds and didn't change.
5 percent.
80 kmh x 5pc is 4 kmh
100kmh x 5pc is 5 kmh
This is why hat wearing Camrys are so frustrating on the road - they think they are doing a conservative 95 and they are only doing 90 :)
It's a great rort for manufacturers to give you 95% of your warranty & a great way to annoy truck drivers!
Ok now I’m back to waze, you convinced me!
A GPS will be out on uphill or downhill as it only takes point A & B, OK on the flat
Correct me if I'm wrong: but how is that "calibrated speed gun" accurate when you are measuring at an angle? Is the speed gun not measuring the speed of approach between the vehicle and the gun?
Because the vehicle isn't directly approaching the gun. Its approaching the road to your left.
Hi Paul, Just wanted to say thankyou for confirming what we have experienced also. However both my wife & I have used Google maps to confirm our speedo's are incorrect by 4-5 KMH. By chance we have had the opportunity to to check our speed with roadside radar that displays your speed which has matched Google maps. We will try Waze now thanks to your research to compare.
Love your work!
Out of curiosity, what’s Garmin.
Never had a fine on GPS speed with cruise. Huge range of vehicles and trucks.
I hope everybody sees your video to learn their car isn't doing the 100/110 they thought out on the highway. My VE HSV is 98/100 and my Ranger is 96/100. I tend to think the manufacturers do this so your service comes around quicker. When my wife had a Hyundai that was 90/100. She was behind me on the freeway one day when I was in my Prime Mover and rang me and said I was speeding at 110km/h. Once she learned that the speedo was around 10 out as we all probably do we just add that missing speed to get up to the correct speed. I use my Ranger as a daily and sit on 104 in a 100
Great video guys! Waze user here for many years and have always trusted its accuracy across several vehicles but have also wondered how spot on it was compared to a calibrated speed checker so thank you for answering that! Possibly the only other consideration is the orientation of the phone whilst using. Weirdly I've noticed some fluctuations when the phone is stored somewhere forward of the gear shifter horizontally and I guess out of line of sight of the sky vs say on a dedicated air-vent or windscreen mount in a vertical position.
From my reading, the new ADR 18 says speedos cannot indicate less that the true speed, and over-indication accuracy is limited to a maximum 10 % plus 4ks.
Most are about 6% from my reading.
They never go over. The tolerance is for below only.
@@deleted.6743no the speed is always reading over. I,e it could be displaying 114km/h while you are only doing 100km/h
The google maps thing, as others are saying, really looks like an apple issue. You mention they just introduced the feature, so it could be an early glitchyness, but it's been on Android for a while (like 5 years) and it's stable there. Apple has been pushing their maps in the last year or so and, given apples history, it wouldn't surprise me if apple is limiting it in some way.
This confirms something for me. The roadside speed indicators with the LED readouts have always seem to underestimate actual speed, and I have always wondered if police speed guns were similarly calibrated. If your unit is showing 3 or 4kph under, this also aligns with the old "10% grace" number...if you're caught doing 88 in an 80 zone, you're likely doing 92, and fresh out of excuses.
Hi there Paul,
There is one other device that shows your speed and that’s the humble Navman dashcam, because it uses GPS , unless you drive through long tunnels, and is very close to the Waze app in terms of the speed displayed, in my case it’s about 3 to 4 kms under what the car speedometer displays.
Perhaps the problem with Google is how often the app recalculates speed. Both systems rely on GPS coordinates and time travelled since the previous calculation. I would be curious to see results on hills as I noticed my trusty Tomtom "loses" speed when climbing. Whatever the case, the car speedo will always register low and that's the safest system to trust.
Important to note that only the dash display speed is conservatively adjusted to comply with ADR. If you use an OBD2 reader such as ScanGauge it will display the correct speed without the need for GPS apps.
Always wondered this thank you!
If you install a Scangauge or similar in your cars OBD2 port and set it up to read your speed you get the same speed as Waze i.e. the accurate speed. The cars computer knows the accurate speed in order to increment the odometer accurately but car manufacturers increase the displayed speed on your dash by 4 km/h. I have tested this on several cars and its always out by 4 km/h.
I’ve always wondered about this!!
Not sure if say driving up or down a massive hill, the Wase or Google GPS speedo would be less accurate. Depending on how the GPS data signals work could be the following: 1. GPS may work in a one dimensional capacity only and if so, to know the real speed, would require a mathematical vector and/or trigonometry equations (eg theoretically, say one was driving vertically up, the GPS may indicate that one was travelling at 0 km/hr). or
2. The GPS compares the time signals it receives from the satellites with its internal clock. Knowing the speed of light and when the signals were sent and received, the device calculates distance from each satellite, and thus, one's longitude, latitude and altitude and thus also correct speed (depending on the quantity of satellite signals received).
My assumption, which you've disproven, is that both apps use the speed that the GPS subsystem tells it, but apparently that's not the case and each needs to be calculating it themselves.
I like that Waze has an overspeed alarm, but don't like that the sound is more of an "ahem" rather than "Watch out!", and you can't change it.
As someone whonhasbusedbgos speed to determine how fast I can go (an how much under the limit other road users are travelling. Just be aware uphills and downhills will change the reading
Hi Paul, to get an accurate results with Google map you need to use an Android device it is way staple than Apple devices. I am a courier driver and I switched a lot between them till I figured out Android is better with Google map. Hopefully that is help and thanks for the great videos you always provide.
Just take care with the car’s speedo.
I have an example with bmw idrive 8 cars. On my G42 M240i if you have your phone connected to apple carplay, the speedo will have an 1km/h over the waze constant, at any speed. I heard that on the forums but I can confirm that it will be pretty much spot on. I use it 100% of the time in the car.
Even at 200km/h on the dash, on waze is 199hm/h. I don’t know if only bmw does that but the only way to test it is to compare waze vs dash speeds.
Love your work mate
Dont forget the Cosine Effect. As you are measuring it from a slightly offset position. The vehicles are not approaching you directly. So actual speed may be very slightly higher than the Lidar measures.
Lets also not forget tyre size makes a difference, on my GU Patrol I went up to 33" tyres on the 16 rim (stock) which has brought my speed to exactly the same as GPS, so now I also know on the Speedometer, is the speed Im actually doing.
The cars speedo was showing the same speed on cruise as the waze test and not fluctuating, yet the Lydar gun gave different read outs.
So the car speedo and waze was the only constant in all these tests.
You are our fearless leader Paul !!! 🫡
Both speedo errors at 80 and 100kph were exactly the same. 1:20 or 5%.
As you said, all factory speedometers are calibrated to be under. Good to learn about Google Maps. I'll stick with Waze. 👌
Detected speed by speed cameras are also reduced and adjusted by 3% of the detected speed. So even if your radar speed is detect at 62kph, you won’t get fined as it will be amended to the -3% calculation
Good vid guys - worth noting any app is 100% dependent on your device (and even location in your vehicle for sats to locate) and the app itself. I would suggest Waze has some sort of smoothing software wise, is very similar to the zillion other 'gps speedo' apps. Google Maps has a few tweaks to do software wise but the looks.
I always drive via a Garmin GPS (which is spot on) in the work Navara as the speedo over reads the actual speed by 8 kph at 100 kph.
GPS Speed is derived from the doppler effect, it uses the compression of the known GNSS transmission code length and compares the time it takes to receive the signal vs how long the signal was. Each satellite (or SV as they are known) has an atomic clock on board, and this is frequently synchronised with ground stations which have VERY precise atomic clocks. The signal is time stamped at the start and end of the code broadcast, so the original length is fixed. If your travelling towards the signal then the signal compresses and the subtle change in timing is easily calculated to at least 1/100th of kmh, conversely the signal stretches as you travel away from a satellite and thus a speed can be calculated.
It has nothing to do with position. Its all timing. But position is a function of timing anyway, that's how global position systems work. The P/Y/L Code offer varying abilities to detect atmospheric distortion to correct timings to bring down your position, by comparing the way different frequencies distort through the same atmosphere on their way to the receiver. having two receivers allows you to almost completely solve the integer ambiguity and almost remove all timing error through double differencing, but that is a topic of geodetic surveying beyond the scope of GPS speed ranging.
It's worth noting that the fluctuations are more to do with the device and/or software, I would surmise that the developers have added the feature as more of a gimmick then a genuinely reliable tool compared with something like a Vbox for instance which uses dedicated hardware and software to measure the GNSS code via the doppler effect along with G-Sensors to track your performance numbers.
That's exactly what I eas gunna say....!
Phones aren't able to calculate speed using GNSS doppler. If they were able too, there would be no need for dedicated devices like the VBox, and we could just download an app that processes Doppler observations to display precise speed as well as 1/4mile and 0-100km/h acceleration times.
After years of driving heavy vehicles, I am absolutely convinced that passenger vehicles are actually made to read 5 kph above their indicated speed, and commercial vehicles (those that are registered as heavy vehicles) are made to display the actual speed.
I’m pretty sure car manufacturers put the 5% to cover their legal bases. On the VW cars with RNS510 head units, you can enter the diagnostic mode and reads the speed off the canbus, the car knows its actual speed and the speed displayed on the speedometer is 5% out.
The accuracy of GPS varies according to the number of satellites the unit is locked onto. I suggest you have a dedicated GPS handheld that can display how many satellites are available. There are many more satellites available now, but the configuration of available satellites is constantly changing. Ideally, you need an even spread of satellites across the sky.
Watching this, the speedometer is out 5% not 10% as you said (1kph per 20) which is pretty normal for most Australian delivered vehicles.
Waze, GPS dash camera are all reliable as use multiple satellites and triangulate, hence many trucks use GPS telemetry for position and speed.
You get booked for speeding at 102 kph in a 100 zone in Vic? Man that's savage fund raising! 💩🇦🇺
I thought it was 3kmh and 3% over 100kmh, wouldn’t surprise me if they’ve tightened that up in the name of revenue (Oh sorry, I mean safety) Victoria is a joke.
@@JFMagnet I'm not sure... think I quoted what was said in the video. I was booked in NSW, for being 6 kph over the 50 kph limit. The camera was placed on the side of a wide road that was descending and had little traffic. The fine came from *"NSW Revenue".* 🤦♂
The tolerance is 2km/h regardless of speed for fixed cameras. For mobile cameras it's 3km/h up to 100km/h, and 3% above that.
They are giving less leancy because people are using GPS. Less excuse for bwing wrong.
@@rakalin9015 No doubt you would never even jaywalk. 🤮
GPS can be good as a guide, but is affected my many things as well as the receivers can be of different quality. I've often used my garmin watch to get the best comparison, using the multiband mode. Even that in the wrong situation can get it wrong. It was good here to demonstrate what can happen though.
maybe try doing this on uphills and downhills to see the accuracy difference
The thing to remember is that gps information is being sent by satellites from approx 20,000km away, sending a signal through atmosphere which may be affected by cloud cover, humidity, pressure, and topography. People think it's more reliable due to the fact that its used in aviation and military activity; however, it must be remembered that their uses in aviation and military precision have no requirement for meter precision. For example, a plane might use it to track its approximate position and speed over a track that covers hundreds or thousands of km, and military attacks that use gps accuracy are usually dependent on a wide area of attack (eg artillery strike or carpet bombing). When the need for precision is necessary in aviation or military operation, they use controls that are localised and/or ground based, such as ILS or laser guidance.
Compare this to your speedometer, which is programmed to know how many times your wheel is rotating in the last fraction of a second and can determine the speed based on its standardised measurements. However, the manufacturers know that not everybody keeps their cars measurements standardised; maybe you put 17inch rims on to replace your 16"s. At 60kph, your 16s are rotating at 6.27 times per second; but a 17 inch rim rotating at 6.27rps, is travelling at 61.24 kph, an increase of just over 2%. Your speedo doesnt know you put bigger rims on, so it shows 60kph. Thats why theyre given an overread tollerance of up to 5% (they can legally overread by 5%, but must never underread - ie, you cant be travelling at 82kph and reading 80kph), to allow for if you put bigger rims on the car, or higher aspect tyres. Thats also why a lot of states have a maximum of 2inches extra allowed on tyres, because at 60kph, 3 inches would actually add 8kph on top of what youre reading.
I've been using Waze for over 4 years now & use it on android. We have 2 vehicles and I normally use cruise control to lock in my speed at the posted limit. 1 car has adaptive cruise control the other vehicle is older and not adaptive cruise control. The first few times passing oncoming police vehicles was a bit scary seeing my car's speedo showing up to 8 kph above the posted limit and no tickets or traffic stops so far.
In recent months with a new android device my GPS speed on Waze has on occasions fluctuated hugely jumping up or down by up to 40 kph while locked into cruise control, this doesn't occur all the time but has started to impact my trust with my indicated speed. I've tried to problem solve & read articles to see what's occurring with my GPS. This rapid increase & decrease seems to happen on rainy or overcast days, the other topographical difference has been multiple phone towers in the vicinity where it occurs. It'd be interesting to know if other users of Waze have observed similar GPS behaviour?
I’ve noticed heavy cloud can affect GPS. It’s a GPS thing - not just Waze.
@akaluke1 ok thanks for that. I was starting to wonder if it was my old nav system head unit but it's good to get clarity from another user
are you guys using the old holden testing sight?
Next test ... put four phones in test car. 2 x iPhones and 2 x popular Android phones. Show us all on camera that you're running just one GPS app on each (Waze and Google's).
Something wrong with your iPhone/reception if the speed is jumping around like that and Waze wasn't running at the same time as Google Maps.