Night's King Did Nothing Wrong Change My Mind (Seriously)
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- Опубліковано 15 січ 2025
- The Night's King in the books!!!
Fun fact originally this was going to follow the horn of Joramun but then guest right was brought up and I had to scrap that version and factor it in because I am now even more convinced. That seems to make sense of his "sacrifice" to me... if we can even trust it was a sacrifice rather than just sharing food being painted as something more sinister...
Plot twist, Michael is a white walker putting out Others propaganda.
I don't think this is a Michael positive comment. Purge is a racist
Old Nan says Night King could have been a Stark called Bran who lived in Winterfell and slept in Bran's bed.
We know Bran can view events in the past through the weirwoods, and it is hinted that he can change things in spite of what Bloodraven tells him
If Bran's consciousness can travel to the past, and then skin-change into a human body, he could literally be the person remembered as the Night's King
And then Old Nan would be right
The key to following this saga is not to pay attention to what characters say but to focus on what they do.
Also a good idea with real life leaders/politicians
Do you think GRRM was referring to the NIGHT’s KING when he said the hero of ASOIAF was dead before the books started?
I’m kind of paraphrasing him, but I remember hearing someone say that George had said something like that.
Everyone thinks he meant Raegar
Oh? I'd be really curious to the context of that sentence... Also when he said that.
I think Targaryens are being given too much of a central spot to ALL of Westerosi history. There was dude I knew, who once linked Valyrians with the Long Night originators IN Westeros. Come on... just because these people owned dragons, does not mean that they are THE ONLY stakeholders to everything. GRRM has set up the things in such a way that NO ONE character gets most shares of the cake (something Dany fanclub needs to get over, even the Stark or Stannis fanclubs aren't as idiotic as theirs)
I love a sneaky mayhaps
I have been following ASOIF theories for years now, and this is a completely fresh take I’m enthralled with. Thanks for sharing, subscribed.
This is how I feel! Just a few days ago I was thinking while washing dishes how much I missed all the old channels like Gray Area, Quinn’s, In Deep Geek etc doing actual theory videos on ASOIAF and then I got recommended one of these videos and it’s been a wonderful few days going though all these videos!
This series is so good! Your theory about the wall feels right. So much so I fear you may have spoiled the books 😂
Yep, i was thinking damn this is the first theory that actually makes me a bit sad because of how much i believe it.
Sorry to burst your bubble but GRRM not gonna finish the books. I'm 97.5% sure of this.
@@outcastassets who the fuck cares its all made up bullshit anyway ( GRRM SAID THIS) this free made up stuff just blends really amazingly with the made up stuff that made alotta money
I never saw the night's king as the bad guy. His bad reputation, deletion of his entire existence from history etc, all seems too convinient and neat and as you said, history is written by the victors.
The most telling and heartbreaking line for me was Jon's line to Qhorin. When they're sitting around the fire and Qhorin tells him he'd have 'betray' the night's watch to fool the wildlings, and Jon asks him "You'll tell the others that I didn't actually betray you, right?" (I can't rememwthe exact wording and chapter).
It made me so sad because I knew what was going to happen and Qhorin would never get to tell the other brothers that Jon was innocent. I couldn't help thinking of the night's king and how innocent Jon sounded, knowing that only he'd know the truth but he'd go down in history as a turncloak. Maybe that's what happened to the night's king. Maybe he was trying to help and save people but the ones who could absolve him died and he was painted as the villain.
Several times.
I had a theory, when Bran was warging into the past, that he would go back to the First Men (Trying to prevent the war) and be warged in the man who was transformed into the Night King. Hence why the Night King was drawn to Bran. Bran being the 3-eyed Raven and the Night King.
But, no "who has a better story than Bran the Broken?" and Arya jump-striking is what we got.
Barely related to the video but, since George is going at a glacier pace on the remaining books, I might as well put it here.
“Somebody put a whole in the wall” hahahahaa
:A hero is just a villain to the other side." --GRRM
Another great episode MTAS! Especially love the bits about the horn and how each of Bran the Breaker and Joramun passed off the “win” as their own doing. I’m 100% on board for Nights King not being the big bad.
One thing I had come to a different conclusion on was who would fulfill the role of the new NK. Here are my thoughts on a different candidate to Stannis :
A Storm of Swords - Bran IV
“As the sun began to set the shadows of the towers lengthened and the wind blew harder, sending gusts of dry dead leaves rattling through the yards. The gathering gloom put Bran in mind of another of Old Nan's stories, the tale of Night's King. He had been the thirteenth man to lead the Night's Watch, she said; a warrior who knew no fear. "And that was the fault in him," she would add, "for all men must know fear."
A woman was his downfall; a woman glimpsed from atop the Wall, with skin as white as the moon and eyes like blue stars. Fearing nothing, he chased her and caught her and loved her, though her skin was cold as ice, and when he gave his seed to her he gave his soul as well.
He brought her back to the Nightfort and proclaimed her a queen and himself her king, and with strange sorceries he bound his Sworn Brothers to his will. For thirteen years they had ruled, Night's King and his corpse queen, till finally the Stark of Winterfell and Joramun of the wildlings had joined to free the Watch from bondage. After his fall, when it was found he had been sacrificing to the Others, all records of Night's King had been destroyed, his very name forbidden.
"Some say he was a Bolton," Old Nan would always end. "Some say a Magnar out of Skagos, some say Umber, Flint, or Norrey. Some would have you think he was a Woodfoot, from them who ruled Bear Island before the ironmen came. He never was. He was a Stark, the brother of the man who brought him down." She always pinched Bran on the nose then, he would never forget it. "He was a Stark of Winterfell, and who can say? Mayhaps his name was Brandon. Mayhaps he slept in this very bed in this very room."
History doesn’t repeat itself, but it often rhymes. The stories, songs and legends of the dawn age and age of heroes are all conflated, embellished and elaborated. The story grows in the re-telling.
I’ll be brief:
Jon Snow will be the new Nights King:
- He will be undead (assuming his likely resurrection) and so will “know no fear”. What’s there to be afraid of when you’re already dead? Plus Jon may take on a more wolfish and less cautious characteristic after living second life in Ghost.
- He is referenced constantly as the embodiment of death (he “knows” nothing; the state beyond life: nothingness) and is highlighted as “what death is”:
GOT, Bran 1
“When that day comes, you must take no pleasure in the task, but neither must you look away. A ruler who hides behind paid executioners soon forgets what death is. That was when Jon reappeared on the crest of the hill”
- He leads the Nights Watch. And once resurrected, his brothers will follow him because he is a miracle (not literal strange sorceries but awe and wonder that someone could who has been killed could be brought back to life - eg Stoneheart). I also love that some of the NW brothers will follow him as they realise that he’s just doing the right things - it wasn’t sorcery, his cause was just just!
- He won’t literally see a woman from atop the wall (embellishment) but he will take to wife a person that could be seen from the top of the wall - ie someone from beyond the wall, ie a wildling - Val, who fits the description. Chasing and catching is also exactly how you woo / claim a wildling for a wife.
- She will be his “corpse bride” not because she is dead, but because he is ; ie bride of a corpse.
- “her skin was cold as ice” rather rhyming than repeating, perhaps Jon will be resurrected as a “fire wight” (like Beric) by Mel. So to him, her skin will be cold as he will be fire made flesh (especially as he is a Targaryen)
- the “Stark in Winterfell” will be Bran, who is also his “Brother” who will bring him down.
- the use of “Mayhaps his name was Brandon” is (a) a cheeky use of the Mayhaps clause highlighting the likelihood of a lie as you pointed out and (b) also typical Old Nan scare tactic to make Bran more afraid.
- “all records of Night's King had been destroyed, his very name forbidden.” His name was Jon Snow.
Ygritte remembers the tale - as there was no way to expunge the unwritten history of the Night’s King from the memories of the free folk:
ACOK, Jon IV
“I’m Jon Snow”
She flinched. “An evil name”
I actually agree it is Jon who is the strongest parallel and will be the closest, but many characters embody parts of the legend at least with symbolism. I just wanted to get a Mannis joke in there and use the Davos Stannis talking about the wall meme format again haha
There is another possible piece of evidence I found covered tomorrow morning's episode that also likely points heavily to Jon in this role.
Very good catch on the evil name line though.
Jon being the actual person who will fulfill a role Stannis embodies first kind of fits. The whole fandom thinks he will do that in the sense of Azor Ahai reborn, but perhaps it’s really the Night’s King role he will take on once Stannis falls. Stannis might parallel the historical story of Night’s King, where he discovers what’s going on while ruling from the Nightfort and that the wall needs to fall, but will be killed by outside forces before he can complete the task. Then Jon will be left to pick up the pieces and actually bring Night King’s goal to fruition.
Also lots of Azor Ahai and Night’s King parallels so it doesn’t even have to be a fake out, Jon could very well take on both of those roles after Stannis somehow fails in them
That "an evil name" has always stuck with me
😂😂your description of how the Starks talk about their black sheep cousin is freakin gold
Your videos are amazing. Always love hearing new perspectives
I've never thought of the Night's King story that way. My mind, once again, has been blown.
Bran (OG) made a deal with the Children of the Forest he is the “evil” one. He wants to be the stallion that mounts the world.
The Night King (John Snow OG) is the « good guy » but the 3 Eyed Raven has spent millennia whispering slander in man’s ears.
In the show Jon brought the Wildlings through the wall.
You make many great points; however, George Martin is vehemently anti-slavery. The problem w positing that the Others aren’t villains from a human perspective is that they are the ultimate slavers. They kill humans and bring them back to a tormented half life where they maintain some memories but are twisted thralls. Martin has given us several groups of men who are strong parallels to the Others: the Wise Masters in Slavers Bay. The Iron Born pirates epitomized by Balon and Euron. Illyrio Mopatis. And Roose and Ramsay Bolton. This is a who’s who of the worst human villains in the story. While it makes sense that the Others are not villains by their own morality, and I like your Night’s King idea, it’s hard to get around the fact that the Others are the epitome of evil from a human perspective in their turning human beings into half alive zombie thralls, who have none of the joys of living nor the peace of death.
The night's king is not a white walker though
Following your theory, I think it's likely that the wall was brought down at the Nightford with the Horn of Joramund. Naturally, the next step was to chop down one/multiple of the Weirwood Trees that were exposed, either to rescue the Others tied to the tree or take down the Wall permanently. Then they burnt down what they thought of as the "stump", yet the Weirwood-Other-Refigerator kept the outside of the tree cool, so only the inside was burned out - leaving us with the Weirwood Well at the Nightford.
Why is the Weirwood Well a well and not stump? Because, when the wall was formed, it first formed more of a mound at the base of each Weirwood-Other-Refigerator, since that's where the Other is tied to the tree. They probably figured out later that they also need cladding to form the Wall, which is probably the thing that Brandon the Builder actually built.
I've been watching these videos agreeing with most of it, but thinking, "the Nightfort well/tree should carry on up through the fortress rather than stopping at the kitchen tho" was my only real issue with it, and you've solved it for me thanks. Jusy realised it's a stump. They probably cut It's heart tree down after they overthrew the Night's King.
I really like this theory and i want it to be true only i can’t understand why would Joramun and the wildings stay beyond the wall afterwards? Why would they not cross over to the south side when the wall is broken?
My whole fanfiction is based on this. I do not think that the Others are the ones that mankind should be afraid of…
recommended to me on my home page
The Jon and Nights King parallel is pretty cool, catching up on all your videos, keep up the great work.
Horn of Joramun is such a chunky phrase. I propose you start calling it the Hornamun.
That is great interpretation of the night's king
"Mayhaps," just like in the Frey kid's game. Lord of the crossing. Mayhaps,
Honestly love this theory. Do you think the wall "weeps" (i.e. melts) because Brandon the Breaker tried to help build it up faster? Like they had to cover their tracks and if the wall is down, it probably has to take time to rebuild. So if they rebuild part of it in a fabricated manner, perhaps that is why the wall melts. I have nothing to back this up, it was just a thought that popped into my head as I was watching the videl. What do you think??
Thank you for the amazing theory. Just finished all of your videos and all of the ideas are well connected along with all of the meta information. I'll just add one more in terms of human sacrifice in human history, which seem to be prevelant ritual in prehistoric times. George is huge fan of mesoamerican culture, which was the almost the last huge civilization that practice ritualistic human sacrifice. Many civilizational growth was recorded by some type of ending of the practice. Like George said he really like telling the classic tale.
I’m so glad I saw you on DavidLB you’re freaking hilarious man
Holy hell incredibly hilarious modern parallel good one
with this theory it might not be a stark that became night's king, maybe its was a greystark or other stark cadet branch since lost to time.. because if old nan is right and it was a brandon who became nights king; it make no sense he would be a stark, because Brandon the breaker is a stark. Who the fuck gives two of their living kids the same name. But if Brandon the breaker fought against Brandon "the night's king" Greystark that makes some sense. And we do know the starks will straight up destroy their cadet houses as we know they did the greystarks, maybe after stomping the night's king brandon the breaker broke an entire house, or he broke the sanctity of kinship becoming a kinslayer and having to make sure not one word be remembered by history because it would defame the highly regarded honor of House Stark. Or and this one is wild maybe brandon the breaker was not a stark but instead a gre/karstark, but after killing the “true” stark night’s king his house adopted winterfell and the name stark , he is known as brandon the breaker because he broke the lineage of the old kings of winter. … full discretion im pretty baked
these videos are fantastic. thank you❤️
I for one accept our 'Other' overloards
Brandon the breaker and night’s king one in the same?
Since the filming of this video I have actually wondered the same thing. Old Nan literally suggests he could have been a Brandon. Brandon the Breaker was a Brandon at that time and involved in the battle.
The north could have been told "Yeah your king died in battle, remember him forever as Brandon the Breaker."
Certain things seem muddy and like it might be a stretch but not so much that it couldn't turn out to be the case IMO.
Instead of Bran the Breaker (of the wall) what about Brandon the Oath-breaker?
Old Nan's last line about the Night's King probably living on Bran's room 8000 years ago is just a scare tactic imo. Great Keep of Winterfell was a fairly recent addition in Westerosi standards.
Perhaps, there are many secrets hidden in the Citadel, Nightfort itself, Isle of Faces and the much neglected Old Keep of Winterfell and Moat Cailin apart from the Crypts. I won't be surprised if we find some information in the Chronicles of Asshai and the random runes left by First Men throughout Westeros (with some runes unfortunately getting faded away due to natural forces)
The problem is that he gave the Others guest right, not the other way around.
Guest right goes both ways, as demonstrated when Littlefinger invites the various Vale lords into the Eyrie in AFFC, feeds them, and one of the lords pulls a sword on him. All the other lords act disgusted that he would break guest right, meaning the guests themselves are also disallowed to kill their hosts
having brandon the builder being a villain is kinda crazy though
Do guest rights still matter once the Wall is destroyed? I could understand guest rights applying if the Others had to pass through a physical doorway in a physical wall, but once the Wall and doorway are gone, does it still count? Surely Aegon the Conquero, the Andals, or the First Men weren’t breaking guest rights when they invaded Westeros, since there were no negative side effects. I love all your theories, I’m just not sure if this part of it holds up.
Algormancy!
Bro what?
@@vaibhavgaur5268 idk, just something I started commenting on videos of creators I wanna support when I don’t have an actual comment to make, to boost their engagement 🤷
@@chables74 ahahahhaa damn I see. I was tripping seeing this everywhere. Good on you bud
You forgot to remind us that the Night's King and the Night King are two different characters. For now, the Night King only exists in the show.
I like this idea but it leaves a question: if the Others were around before Nights King, why is he extraordinary? The story implies strongly that he’s their leader. For that to be true, Brandon the Breaker and Joramun would’ve needed a mega spell to give him authority over the existing Others no? That seems unlikely without COTF help.
Absolutely love this theory!
"Mayhaps his name was Bran" wasn't a lie. She just didn't know how true it was.
Maybe the Night's King was LITERALLY Bran.
In order to solve the problem while he still might have had the power to do so, Bran used his power to enter the mind of another Stark in the past. Through his time there, he concocted his plan of bringing the wall down using the horn. He'd give sacrifices to The Others to give them guest right.
While waiting for them to come gather at the Heart Tree of the Night Fort, he was beset upon by those who would not have him changing things. Those who wanted to keep the power, and contain the consequences. He and his story was buried and lost in time. Bran failed, but this gave him the exact blueprint he needed. Who needed to be where in order to prevail during the Long Night.
Brandon the Breaker will use that failure in order to end the old ways and make peace with the Night's King.
4:20 now ask yourself "who do they do this to in our world?"
Do I hear a lil Mitch Headberg in how ou say "..was coool,,,"???
Bears can be mean sometimes, but frogs are always coooool. Love ya Mitch ❤💔
Maybe the coolest actually
Yes, sir, my exact thoughts 💯
What means "Others returning to the weirwoods"?
I'm confused, the Others just want the eternal rest or are they trying to live in their own terms without been slaved by the old ways of the children of forest? Or something else? You have so much videos i trying to catch you guys, patience with me please
Hi from Brazil btw
So, Night's King was cool, but not too cool, so he's not icy?
Are you talking about some austrian painter?
When do you mean the knights king and when do you mean the Night King ? Or they the same p3rson?
There is an irony about you saying 'we need to do away with conservative....' and then saying 'guest right is good' in almost the same sentence. Guest right IS a cultural norm that was been conserved and must continue to be conserved.
Conservatism isn’t one particular tradition, it’s a system of oppression which maintains the rule of one class over another. That said I think this theory is not correct.
❤🔥❤🔥❤🔥❤🔥❤🔥❤🔥❤🔥❤🔥❤🔥
The Night's King was cool actually - love it
sure, red flag #1 : dude expects child sacrifice on his name. probably one of the most indefensible things.
mmm I think brandon the breaker broke the horn
I love this channel but this is possibly the worst ice and fire theory video ive seen. The not so subtle republican politics comparison is just so extra LOL. The starks are trump voters?
Night’s King good, Azor Ahai bad?
❤
The irony of 'progressivism' being 'truth' and objectively right.
Always has been. Always will be. The only problem with being too far left is that you're only vindicated long after you die.
Nights King? More like the Nice King 🤴 ❤
It’s a nice video, but bloodraven has done a lot of morally questionable things as hand (being a kin slayer). Why would he now want to free people when he spent his whole life trying to control people?
There are no "good guys" in Game of Thrones.
I like the theory, but, um....sacrificing humans isn't something good guys do.
The others do seem to take sheep as a sacrifice as well. Also he might have been teaming up with the night's queen to birth "others" night's queen permanent shadow babies with the goal of bringing down the wall. Either of those things could be called sacrificing to the others but the thing he would be sacrificing is either his sheep or his life force. In the way Stannis has to give his life force to birth a shadow baby but idk that I would say he sacrificed a human even if it was a potential son in some magic sense.
Lol gosh you think in simple terms. Read Dr.Seuss or something.
The apotheosis of leftism.
This theory makes me wonder if GRRM is delaying/changing/stalling Winds of Winter because of his change in beliefs, or at least in the beliefs of his audience and therefore the reception his books would now receive. Maybe changing the writing to focus less on this lesson about 'embracing the undead ice demons and letting them into your civilization is a good thing' and 'yes, traditions can exist for millenia and be wrong and should be broken', to focussing more on the characters/politiking/dany fan club/etc.
This sort of lesson would've been fine 20 years ago when everything wasn't so partisan, but not now. It would piss me off too. Like non-white actors in an 80's medieval fantasy show would've been novel, funny, etc. but not anymore. It's not something you can just choose to ignore either, when you know who the creators/author are, their beliefs as well as their personal lives (read: phat phuking loser). But alas, being so invested in ASOIAF, I can only say...........
WRITE THE DAMN BOOKS GEORGE
clearly, a Night´s King propaganda! :D
The nights king turned against his brothers because they were woke and trying to censor him he said screw that and decided free speech was more important. The nights queen was a conservative woman who wanted a traditional marriage , she finally found it with the nights king but the night's watch hated them for it, they thought they should sleep around and have multiple partners but they refused. They only wanted each other. Everyone hates people that are happy. I don't know maybe that's how it happened. I hope all is well on your end best wishes to you and yours.
Brandon the Breaker
Brandon the Broken
Brandon the Builder
hmmmmm
you're kind of a mansplainer
I was already watching In Deep Geek style Game of Thrones videos long before I stumbled onto your channel. I was watching prior to the beginning of the year a bunch of esoteric stuff like Elden Ring Archeology's Channel . So the algo should've been ripe to recommend your content.
But funny enough the moment I started watching Hunter Avallon's content I get recommended your channel. And here you are BTFOING politics.
I came from one of those small milquetoast, but highly geriatric go- with-flow Men's Rights antiwoke podcasts .That navigate in a contact point sensibilities way rather then actual principles. Though they speak on "god given rights for days"(in a strictly communal setting, which is what they want. Such thing don't exist)They caulked Hunter Avallon's change in politics, as his girlfriend changed him. But in there rebuke it's like a vogue idea as opposed to something they belligerate. If you know how they speak to thing. It's the commonality trying way of speech that that can't be argued to be wrong kinda mostly. (They insufferably don't like to use the term "grifter'. But their spot checking in podcast everyday conversation format as opposed to a video hitpeice)They obviously share the belief that men simp for women with Hunter's beligerating guests described in the next paragraph.
So I thought Hunter Avallon was just gonna be this edgy Breadtuber light person .Making sniping liberal comments, which is easy cause the world is fucked and capitalism is the stupidest shit ever.. I was raised by histrionic boomer parents and even I was surprised how often in Hunter's debates they'd bring up his girlfriend brainwashing meme
Make no mistake the sexism is not something these types truck themselves as being antiquated. It is part of contemporary thought for them. In fact that's why they see liberalism as such, that's why we call them neoliberals(private property is expecting fourth dimensional/temporal forcefields over your shit. While on in five children lack food security in this country.)