They used the wrong spring. This is the perfect application for a torsion spring. I have one on the way finally and my own machine shop. I'll try to report back if I get positive results from my line of thinking.
Any gunspring place like wolff will have many different types. I think some minor machining will have to happen to fit a torsion spring though. And of course some experimentation to find the right spring rate.
@@Blxzers marginally. I haven't tried the torsion spring yet. I did relieve to top area of the hole in the trigger housing so when the trigger stop rocks back that the standard compression spring can sort of rainbow up. I did that on my mill but a person could easily do the same with a Dremel. As you are looking down the hole for the spring in the housing, relieve the top half of the hole to be more like a cone shape, grind away about 3.5 mm from the 12 o'clock position, tapering back such that you don't remove any material at the 12 o'clock position at the very base of the hole. I have absolutely 0 spring deformation so far. What sucks is I have only shot about 80 rounds with it. My 10.5 pistol just isn't going to work without tuning with this trigger. Even with H3 buffer the cyclic rate is so fast that the action isn't picking up he next round off the mag. Tried with H3,H2, and standard buffer. I'd get 2 to 5 round bursts every time. It could also be not enough gas so the action isn't cycling fully. At some point I am going to machine a booster, like a krinkov, and try that route. Next in line is my trusty ole M16 clone with it's 20 inch barrel and as intended gas system. Trigger itself is good to go after the mod. Now to figure out how to pair it. But I don't want to waste too much ammo at the moment.
@@Blxzers primary issue with the torsion spring is how to integrate it in with the existing design. I haven't figured out a good way to do that yet and just haven't machines my own housing to accommodate it.
Nevermind the issue we all want to address, what you've done is explain this issue as if I was a friend having a beer with you one lazy afternoon. Some people try to think you're a toddler explaining this stuff, thank you for being straight forward about it. I'm your 500th subscriber.
It's why I no longer buy "gen I" of ANYTHING anymore. You're 100% correct. This malfunction has been showing up within 300 rounds on most of the YT posts I've seen. This tells me either they didn't test this product, or they KNEW but wanted to get it to market ASAP. Couple that with the tyrants doing what they do best, and here we are. They've come out with a "modified" locking bar that supposedly fixes the issue, so basically, order the bar, extra springs and now you have a $380 + $25 + 3 + shipping trigger.
Personally, my fix would be to remove the linear compression spring and put in a torsion style just like the hammer has. This is a 100% guaranteed fix with correct geometry and consistent force throughout the range of travel. There is more than enough material to allow opening up the pocket for the proper clearance.
Just got mine in. I bought 24 of the springs from McMaster carr everybody is sharing. I'm going to wait and put one of those in place of the oem spring and see how that goes before I make any modifications. I like your solution and may end up doing this exact mod. Thank you for bringing this to light and coming up with a solution instead of bitching. Rare breed just denys that this is happening to anyone. Can't wait to learn more from you in the future.
@@RINO711 I'm 200 rounds in on one of the new springs from McMaster carr. No issues. I'm running it in a bcm 16" upper and palmetto lower with an h3 buffer. If anything changes I'll update.
Respect for your service.. It's a SAD Day when a Company Chooses Poor Business practices, They Are/Have Let An Opportunity to Strengthen their business ...They Could Have Worked with their Manufacturing & Customers Fixed The Problem & Grown a Reputation for being a Stand Up Company that CARES about their CUSTOMERS while fine tuning their Product. A SAD DAY FOR MADE IN USA MANUFACTURING AND THEIR CUSTOMERS
I would like to see a better detailed picture that you can actually see where you made the 1/2 moon cut out its really not easy to see in this video thanks !!!
You can take out a little at a time and rock it until it fits in there without distorting if you plan on doing it. he is basically going in straight, the bit is slightly curved so it eats less the deeper in the area, and MORE towards the outside which gives the spring a channel to lay in.. I personally would've used a hammer spring or something.
Thank you buddy i just learned a lot! waiting on 2 this week but got hit by a car and had spinal cord surgery so dexterity is shot but ,we definitely need more people like you buddy,if you ever do set something up ,I’m in !! Thank you for your time and knowledge!!
This is a very helpful vid, thanks. I just wanted to add that for minimal cost you can order music wire (spring tempered wire) and form your own springs by wrapping around a drill bit of specific size in a powered drill. Wear gloves and use a bit that is slightly smaller than the actual inside diameter of the spring you are duplicating. Then just clip to the length you need. I’ve used this method to create springs when I
Kinda what Iwas thinking like mini music wire damage industries sells for buffer springs, they may know of a company that could make the springs or sell you the right size material to make or own, I also thought of contacting springco they make high quality bolt extraction springs and may have what we need, or direct us the right place to source the material to make our own springs
Appreciate the video. I found them in stock online this evening and then I passed because of your video. I have no interest in buying a product then having to potentially mod to run correctly. I hate gambling on time as it's just a matter of time before they are off the shelves due to our government.
Watching your spring fly off reminds me of the install of my Fostech Echo, same thing sort of, but a lot more parts went flying, probably all of them. An hour later my wife and I had it all found and back together. Now I work on that trigger in a box, keeps the parts close incase of implosion.
As of Sept.17th it seems as though the problem is we’ll know and understood. I was days away from purchasing one of these. Thankfully I just became aware of this issue yesterday. Now, if they do not recall these and make it right for all previous customers, I will not be getting one. Do the right thing Rare Breed.
I was lucky enough to order mine the first day they went on sale, got it a couple weeks later. Due to laziness and covid, I've only gone to the range with it once. Put around 300 rounds through it and later learned of this spring issue. The spring in mine is showing signs of it, but it hasn't quit yet. Glad to see there are fairly easily obtained replacement springs in the comments here, as well as possible DIY fixes because it's highly doubtful rare breed will do anything about it. They most likely just want to make as much money as they can and/or flood the market before the ATF starts shooting dogs over them. Can't blame them for the former, and I'd actually support the latter - make it that much more impossible for an unconstitutional organization to do its illegal job.
If this is a design flaw and the makers at Rare Breed know it then wtf are the still selling it @ $380 per trigger knowing that it would never hold up???
Just a tip.. and someone has probably said it already..if so I apologize...but Whiskey doesnt do well being kept in the sun as well as being subject to frequent temperature changes. Store it in a cool dark place
Thanks again for getting back to me. I have no idea about the rules regarding this type of trigger. I just wanted to throw the question out in web land in case there is any cause for concern or to head any possible trouble off at the pass before trying to fix an engrossing problem gets anyone in trouble with the law.. Thanks again and stay safe.
I ordered my FRT 15 on May 27. Just received it yesterday, June 3. I can see the hole in the housing for the spring has a wider diameter than what I've seen on previous housings. Testing starts tomorrow and I'll post the results here.
Yeah i never used mine cycled the rifle manually about 50 times and the spring got ruined. Contacted the manufacturer got angry bitter woman and no help for replacement spring. So i got new springs from mcmaster carr. Modified the arm with a die grinder no more damaged springs.
How about everyone QUIT fixing them and have the company turn out a product that works. Would you buy a new car that you immediately had to fix and replace parts after you drove it off the lot?
With the atf issues. And with a chance to buy something compaired to a 50k sear block. It should be no wonder why. Especially when civil war looks grim.
I've thought about smoothing the sear surfaces to make the break better as well as having a machine shop make a new rear sear with an angled pocket for the spring
Rare Breed needs to think of this different. Use a mini spring shaped just like the spring used on an AR 15 Hammer.... those springs are designed to “rotate” a lever
Well I know we all support the work they're doing at Rare Breed and we all are supporting their fight against the ATF but it is not a wonderful or well built problem if EVERY customers seems to be having the same malfunction issues due to a clear design flaw. Moreover, it is very unprofessional for Rare Breed to be asking for support, especially monetary support, when they are apparently blowing off customers, their concerns and their issues with this product and trying to blame the users or their weapons instead of taking responsibility and addressing the issue like a professional business would do.
Until Rare Breed addresses the issue and replaces or fixes every trigger they have sold with this known flaw I will not even consider buying anything from them. They purposely shipped these triggers with a known and obvious defect. Hold them accountable and keep anyone representing the 2A community honest!!
What I did was stole s spring that I believe came from one of my echo 2 and I put a shorter spring that was slightly stronger it seems to work you can feel it stop binding when you're just manipulating it by hand and so far I haven't had a single malfunction that I was only 150 rounds so.... for what it's worth as soon as I get some more ammo I'll test it more
It's a great way of fixing this trigger and I have fixed mine in the same manner ... they however used the wrong style spring ... a true auto sear uses the proper style spring for this application.... also spring stock from brownells ... I made my new spring
Great fix, I'd really like to find extra springs. I'm wondering if the inconel springs from PSA might be more durable. Great taste in Rum man. I love Guatemalan and Honduran rum.
No "agency" letter yet......sells as many as they can for the $$$$ before the agency rewrites the definition...... the consumer makes the necessary mods in order to rectify the defect of original design in order to function properly......flawless Capitalism! Not hating...just calling it. 🇺🇸👍🇺🇸👍🇺🇸
This is the second video I see where that tab and spring are an issue. Rare breed triggers refuse to accept that its a design flaw with their trigger and blame the users..
I was on the verge of purchase. This is the third video that has addressed problems. I'll stick with semi-auto or the binaries until they fix the design flaws.
They were almost up to $1200 at one point... but most were 700-1000... ridiculous...But Im still going to get one. unless the state or feds bans them in between so 🤷🏻♂️
Any follow up on how well this has held up and if there’s any response from rare breed for springs origin or upgrade or even if they intend on fixing the error. I just bought one haven’t ran it yet but after seeing this I’d rather not run it without having this remedied. Thankyou for all this wonderful information it’s a huge help. Would also possibly be interested in having you service the error seeing how you’ve done this more than likely a few times over now.
I'd say if they (manufacturer) wouldn't correct it, then create a new product of your own using the same principle but with the design flaw correction -- that would make it a new product and not a copyright infringement
The part number you need for the reverie trigger spring is McMasters Springs number C04018020C04018020 FYT trader spring from WB Jones and yeah I got that from bench 175
By smoothing/rounding the edges of the hole in the housing will also decrease the bind on the spring. Spring is seated far enough in housing and "tab" that it is very unlikely the spring will be lost while in operation unless you get to crazy with smoothing the housing edge.
How were you able to determine this was the correct spring or did you get info from RBT? Part is relatively inexpensive, but shipping is usually much more than parts
@@alanlittle990 in my line of work i have the ability to back engineer parts and pcs.... i am also very grateful to have experienced people that i work with..... with that being said, we back engineered the OEM spring and came up with a very suitable replacement. RBT would NOT give any information.
Dont modify the trigger! It voids any possible future replacement and jepordizes the structual integrity. If your having problems with the spring being damaged just take the spring out of a BIC lighter and cut it slightly longer. Its a little smaller in diameter but i thought maybe that would give it room in the recess to shift rather than being pinched. Ive been running my BIC spring for at least 1000 rounds now and it hasnt been mis shaped at all, runs perfect.
I get what your saying but you’re speculating a warranty that isn’t implied or communicated in any way. Further more, Rare Breed hasn’t even acknowledged the issue, as a matter of fact, they did just the opposite and rolled out another batch of the exact same triggers. So, I’d rather fight that fight when I get to that point and be able to use the trigger up to that point
@@mp2103 sure there isnt a guarantee of a replacement but by modifying it you are guaranteeing there never will be, its not necessary though, BIC lighter spring works like a charm, try it
@@corywilley1595 we’ll agree to disagree. Your assumption that they won’t warranty it with this mod is the same as assuming they will warranty it at all. So far their customer service has ran and hid from the issue. I will try the bic spring though! Thanks!
Has anyone else had issues with single shots from this trigger? It seems to only want to double (or triple) and I'm seeing difficulty getting a single shot with it which makes it pretty much ineffective for anything other than a range toy
I'm trying to make a captive housing for the spring almost like a tiny hydraulic shock that pivots and working with a flatspring idea will post what works best
My FRT-15 is still sitting in it's package waiting for a official or unofficial fix. Local gunsmiths are a no go as the last one i had do a simple laser bore zero busted the elevation on my scope.
I agree. The machining quality, drop-in fit and finish are commendable. The spring design was an afterthought and a violation of simple concepts of physics.
Tell your friend to let you weld up the current pocket and drill the correct 45 degree angled pocket. It would make for a great video series and proof of improved concept
I'm still on the fence, because as I've said before on other vids this isn't OBVIOUSLY a dmr type rifle trigger, more of a fire team CQB trigger. Love the trigger though. Hoping the NEW SPRING IS HEAVIER to resist the binding and kinking issue it has IN THE ORIGINAL VERSION.....
Alright so after 2 weeks I received a reply from customer service and they claim that they started shipping the modified bevel after 3/1 so in my 2 triggers I just received I don’t see the bevel so either they’re full of it or they did it on such a way it’s mostly internal and a very very slight bevel. I’ll take them apart now abs find out
I haven’t installed my trigger yet but, it appears that the forced reset lever located at the top rear of the trigger housing has a return spring that gets pinched between the lever and the housing and causes malfunctions. It may be caused by the spring pocket and lever not aligning during movement and or by to much pressure on the trigger. BROzooka arms has another good video on the problem and fix.
Excellent video it was very informative and well explained. I do have one question, did you ever test fire the gun after making the mod to the bar and did that resolve the problem?
They could just put a spring in like a trigger spring and that would completely fix the problem and have less holes to mill. Just make a wider cut for the tab and put a different spring in it and call it a day
Couldn't you just take that little coil spring out and replace it with a little steel flat-spring? Seems like it'd be a PERFECT application of that type of spring and I'd think it'd be REALLY easy to install...
@@mp2103 I’ve never had to fix my CMC drop ins but if I did I’d certainly be looking for a replacement trigger to be sent or I’d find a better product.
@@mp2103 I also understand your point but to be fair, any trigger should function properly for much longer than “a couple hundred rounds” when installed properly. You certainly installed it properly so my point is that for the cost it should be both fun and reliable. I place a priority on reliability so that’s my issue. Thank you for the video and explanation. I have considered buy a RB trigger but I have a hard time coughing up all that money.
@@daniellee3275 I have the same thoughts on reliability being paramount, however I would never use this trigger in a defensive platform. It would be restricted to a fun range gun due to the near impossibility of firing just a single round. I have one of these triggers and I hope that either rare breed or gunsmiths can figure out an easy fix for this problem that will bring reliability back to 100% so that I can pick up another AR to put this trigger in.
I think the spring design for that tab should be the same spring design as a HAMMER SPRING!! They should use the same SPRING DESIGN for that tab as an AR15 HAMMER SPRING only SMALLER. .OR the same SPRING DESIGN aas an M16 AUTO SEAR.
I haven't purchased one yet but is there a possibility of filling in the cavity the factory made and setting up the trigger in a milling machine and milling a 45 degree hole to house the spring
Hey MGG, Just spitballing here, But would it possible to install a slightly shortened spring with a rounded edge plunger pin at the end, similar to the spring and pin for the mag release button or captured retention pins that connects the upper to the lower? I feel like that would alliviate the spring getting caught and bending while giving a smooth surface for the action to work
I tinkered with this idea myself. Something to the effect of a bolt release spring follower. The problem is but the time the tab is pushed forward by the BCG, the pocket in the tab and the pocket in the housing are so far out of line it’s still going to distort the spring in the middle. You’d still need some sort of relief in the bottom of the black tab to keep the tension off the middle of the spring. I like where your heads at though! Same place I went initially.
If there’s a gen-2, a better solution for rare breed would be to use a torsion spring because torsion springs are designed for non-linear motion. Due to the pivoting nature of that piece, there will always be some degree of non-linear motion in this application no matter the angle of the spring recesses. The non-linear motion can be reduced and/or alleviated as you put it, but not eliminated.
I sent an email to Big Daddy Unlimited ( only authorized dealer) after watching a Brozooka Arms clip addressing this same issue and never heard back from them. I wanted to see if there is a repair/ replacement program being offered. My question is, if we repair and modify our triggers without sending them back to the factory are we violating some obscure atf law and setting ourselves up for some wrist bracelets and quality time making gov license plates?
I think In order to break any laws here, you’d have to be attempting to modify the original function to function in a way that is out side the legal confines of the law. What I’m doing here is a mod to make the trigger function at is should, which is legal in its original state.
@@mp2103 BDU has not impressed me, luckily I didn't use my main email but they SPAM your inbox. On top of that, they don't have anything in stock. I'm not going to pay for a service with nothing in stock.
I was gonna buy one and after they tried to say touching that bar n spring can brake it..lol just foolish ..why they are saying that is crap ..just bad design on a killer trigger..they should stop the bs and fix it not blame ppl touching the bar
Good idea on the trigger modification. I may try it as I am handy with a dremel. i am gonna wait to see Rare Breed's response. By the way do you have or paln to have a video shooting that pistol with the modification?
I just received a email from rare breed and the triggers are back in stock (300) however, there is no mention of a updated or newly designed trigger? Thanks again
I am anxiously awaiting the arrival of my FRT-15 (FINALLY got the back-in-stock email in time, two days ago!) so I haven't even held one, let alone experienced this problem and developed and tested a solution.... But looking at all these videos about a spring that is misaligned with its direction of compression, I can't help wondering if the simplest and most durable fix wouldn't be to cut and fit a chunk of elastomer to fill that entire cavity in the back of the trigger assembly. There may or may not be sufficient clearance to retain it with one or two tiny zipties; if necessary it would be fairly simple to drill and pin it and the trigger. Does that seem like a viable possibility? I have some heavy black rubber sheet material that was discarded at work despite being in brand new unused condition; I am sure it is at least 1/2" thick. I would be glad to cut a piece (even though cutting this stuff is a MAJOR pain in the butt!) and send it to you to experiment with, if it seems worth the trouble. I would just try it myself, but nearly all of my shooting is done at an indoor range where extensive FRT-15 testing would probably be frowned upon....
Unfortunately the quality of the parts doesn’t make up for the design flaw, lack of quality control and virtually no customer support other than if you don’t like your trigger, list it on gun broker and get your money back. Gee, thanks Rare Breed. Way to take care of your customers who drooped $350 on your defective trigger design (that could be easily addressed and corrected). Btw potential customer, the issue is not with your weapon platform. It lies in a design flaw concerning the angle of a reset spring within the trigger housing itself. Caveat emptor.
Good video. My issue is less that spring, which I already fixed on mine and my buddys, and more with the over travel on the trigger. It’s very easy to apply too much pressure to the trigger & end up locking the bolt back. Is there a way to adjust for that over travel? I don’t know if it’s the underside trigger spring or the contacts on the reset trigger. But 99% of run fails in my experience are over pull on what is already a very sensitive trigger system,
over travel? the hammer moving backward should be forcing(and locking) the trigger forward, the only thing I would think that would cause that is a non-auto/m16 bolt?
Might try dropping a heavier trigger spring in it? I have had no issues with over travel and no issues with the trigger since fixing the lever spring issue. I just dropped a 6.5lb. spring in mine to see if I can get easier singles.
2 things, what's the possibility of the spring slipping out of the cut out? 2nd- Does the lever rotate enough that would allow something like a metal sheath/cap over the spring? Something like the buffer retaining pin? Or something that resembles a bolt catch plunger? (Just thinking of drop in solutions)
Adding to next comment oops- when I couldn’t find the exact spring I needed. And it seems for this trigger, even with the mod it would be a good idea to have a couple extras on hand.
They used the wrong spring. This is the perfect application for a torsion spring. I have one on the way finally and my own machine shop. I'll try to report back if I get positive results from my line of thinking.
Where can one find a torsion spring to replace the existing?
Any gunspring place like wolff will have many different types. I think some minor machining will have to happen to fit a torsion spring though. And of course some experimentation to find the right spring rate.
any luck?
@@Blxzers marginally. I haven't tried the torsion spring yet. I did relieve to top area of the hole in the trigger housing so when the trigger stop rocks back that the standard compression spring can sort of rainbow up. I did that on my mill but a person could easily do the same with a Dremel.
As you are looking down the hole for the spring in the housing, relieve the top half of the hole to be more like a cone shape, grind away about 3.5 mm from the 12 o'clock position, tapering back such that you don't remove any material at the 12 o'clock position at the very base of the hole. I have absolutely 0 spring deformation so far.
What sucks is I have only shot about 80 rounds with it. My 10.5 pistol just isn't going to work without tuning with this trigger. Even with H3 buffer the cyclic rate is so fast that the action isn't picking up he next round off the mag. Tried with H3,H2, and standard buffer. I'd get 2 to 5 round bursts every time. It could also be not enough gas so the action isn't cycling fully. At some point I am going to machine a booster, like a krinkov, and try that route. Next in line is my trusty ole M16 clone with it's 20 inch barrel and as intended gas system.
Trigger itself is good to go after the mod. Now to figure out how to pair it. But I don't want to waste too much ammo at the moment.
@@Blxzers primary issue with the torsion spring is how to integrate it in with the existing design. I haven't figured out a good way to do that yet and just haven't machines my own housing to accommodate it.
Nevermind the issue we all want to address, what you've done is explain this issue as if I was a friend having a beer with you one lazy afternoon. Some people try to think you're a toddler explaining this stuff, thank you for being straight forward about it.
I'm your 500th subscriber.
501th
@@The_SCC five oh oneth lol. 501st *
Gen 1 or not it’s a $400 trigger & at that price it should operate flawlessly so long as you use the recommended buffer & BCG with it.
It's why I no longer buy "gen I" of ANYTHING anymore. You're 100% correct. This malfunction has been showing up within 300 rounds on most of the YT posts I've seen. This tells me either they didn't test this product, or they KNEW but wanted to get it to market ASAP. Couple that with the tyrants doing what they do best, and here we are. They've come out with a "modified" locking bar that supposedly fixes the issue, so basically, order the bar, extra springs and now you have a $380 + $25 + 3 + shipping trigger.
Personally, my fix would be to remove the linear compression spring and put in a torsion style just like the hammer has. This is a 100% guaranteed fix with correct geometry and consistent force throughout the range of travel. There is more than enough material to allow opening up the pocket for the proper clearance.
Just got mine in. I bought 24 of the springs from McMaster carr everybody is sharing. I'm going to wait and put one of those in place of the oem spring and see how that goes before I make any modifications. I like your solution and may end up doing this exact mod. Thank you for bringing this to light and coming up with a solution instead of bitching. Rare breed just denys that this is happening to anyone. Can't wait to learn more from you in the future.
Let us know how it goes!
@@RINO711 I'm 200 rounds in on one of the new springs from McMaster carr. No issues. I'm running it in a bcm 16" upper and palmetto lower with an h3 buffer. If anything changes I'll update.
@@DCL471 which springs did you get?
@@stonecoldmunchin just a heads up shipping was 10 bucks
@@DCL471 update?
Respect for your service..
It's a SAD Day when a Company Chooses Poor Business practices, They Are/Have Let An Opportunity to Strengthen their business ...They Could Have Worked with their Manufacturing & Customers Fixed The Problem & Grown a Reputation for being a Stand Up Company that CARES about their CUSTOMERS while fine tuning their Product. A SAD DAY FOR MADE IN USA MANUFACTURING AND THEIR CUSTOMERS
As of Sept. Rare Breed has a "modified" locking bar that is supposed to fix the issue - $25 more dollars. I guess that's the "gen II" version.
They did, in fact they milled the area larger than he did in the video. But they should have handled the gunsmiths calling in better than they did.
I would like to see a better detailed picture that you can actually see where you made the 1/2 moon cut out its really not easy to see in this video thanks !!!
You can take out a little at a time and rock it until it fits in there without distorting if you plan on doing it. he is basically going in straight, the bit is slightly curved so it eats less the deeper in the area, and MORE towards the outside which gives the spring a channel to lay in..
I personally would've used a hammer spring or something.
Thank you buddy i just learned a lot! waiting on 2 this week but got hit by a car and had spinal cord surgery so dexterity is shot but ,we definitely need more people like you buddy,if you ever do set something up ,I’m in !! Thank you for your time and knowledge!!
Sorry to hear that Bro hope everything goes ok. 🙏
@@ricardocarmona5210 thank you sir, I appreciate that, God bless 🙏
This was not found in R&D testing??? How?? The engineering faulty. Hope Rare Breed gets it right or bankruptcy. No tears
This is a very helpful vid, thanks. I just wanted to add that for minimal cost you can order music wire (spring tempered wire) and form your own springs by wrapping around a drill bit of specific size in a powered drill. Wear gloves and use a bit that is slightly smaller than the actual inside diameter of the spring you are duplicating. Then just clip to the length you need. I’ve used this method to create springs when I
Kinda what Iwas thinking like mini music wire damage industries sells for buffer springs, they may know of a company that could make the springs or sell you the right size material to make or own, I also thought of contacting springco they make high quality bolt extraction springs and may have what we need, or direct us the right place to source the material to make our own springs
Appreciate the video. I found them in stock online this evening and then I passed because of your video. I have no interest in buying a product then having to potentially mod to run correctly. I hate gambling on time as it's just a matter of time before they are off the shelves due to our government.
Watching your spring fly off reminds me of the install of my Fostech Echo, same thing sort of, but a lot more parts went flying, probably all of them. An hour later my wife and I had it all found and back together. Now I work on that trigger in a box, keeps the parts close incase of implosion.
As of Sept.17th it seems as though the problem is we’ll know and understood. I was days away from purchasing one of these. Thankfully I just became aware of this issue yesterday. Now, if they do not recall these and make it right for all previous customers, I will not be getting one. Do the right thing Rare Breed.
I was lucky enough to order mine the first day they went on sale, got it a couple weeks later. Due to laziness and covid, I've only gone to the range with it once. Put around 300 rounds through it and later learned of this spring issue. The spring in mine is showing signs of it, but it hasn't quit yet. Glad to see there are fairly easily obtained replacement springs in the comments here, as well as possible DIY fixes because it's highly doubtful rare breed will do anything about it. They most likely just want to make as much money as they can and/or flood the market before the ATF starts shooting dogs over them. Can't blame them for the former, and I'd actually support the latter - make it that much more impossible for an unconstitutional organization to do its illegal job.
If this is a design flaw and the makers at Rare Breed know it then wtf are the still selling it @ $380 per trigger knowing that it would never hold up???
Because people will still buy it
Just a tip.. and someone has probably said it already..if so I apologize...but Whiskey doesnt do well being kept in the sun as well as being subject to frequent temperature changes. Store it in a cool dark place
That's all i could think about while trying to watch this
Damn that’s funny………thank you
Thanks again for getting back to me. I have no idea about the rules regarding this type of trigger. I just wanted to throw the question out in web land in case there is any cause for concern or to head any possible trouble off at the pass before trying to fix an engrossing problem gets anyone in trouble with the law..
Thanks again and stay safe.
I ordered my FRT 15 on May 27. Just received it yesterday, June 3. I can see the hole in the housing for the spring has a wider diameter than what I've seen on previous housings.
Testing starts tomorrow and I'll post the results here.
How'd it go? Also where did you order from? Bigdaddyunlimited? Rare breed website?
Interested to know as well when you have more information!
How did the testing go?
Hey, any update on the 'improved' trigger's functioning? Hope to hear back on this, thanks
Following
Yeah i never used mine cycled the rifle manually about 50 times and the spring got ruined. Contacted the manufacturer got angry bitter woman and no help for replacement spring. So i got new springs from mcmaster carr. Modified the arm with a die grinder no more damaged springs.
Yeah. Their customer service has proved to be a joke
Thanks for your service !!!!
How about everyone QUIT fixing them and have the company turn out a product that works. Would you buy a new car that you immediately had to fix and replace parts after you drove it off the lot?
That's literally any new car to date actually. New vehicle are in the shop more then my 27 year old vehicle
With the atf issues. And with a chance to buy something compaired to a 50k sear block. It should be no wonder why. Especially when civil war looks grim.
@@charlesgillham3944 dang.....what are you buying? Lol
I've thought about smoothing the sear surfaces to make the break better as well as having a machine shop make a new rear sear with an angled pocket for the spring
Rare Breed needs to think of this different. Use a mini spring shaped just like the spring used on an AR 15 Hammer.... those springs are designed to “rotate” a lever
Torsion spring
They already got your money, they wont fix it. They will release a 2nd gen when everyone is high and dry
Well I know we all support the work they're doing at Rare Breed and we all are supporting their fight against the ATF but it is not a wonderful or well built problem if EVERY customers seems to be having the same malfunction issues due to a clear design flaw. Moreover, it is very unprofessional for Rare Breed to be asking for support, especially monetary support, when they are apparently blowing off customers, their concerns and their issues with this product and trying to blame the users or their weapons instead of taking responsibility and addressing the issue like a professional business would do.
Until Rare Breed addresses the issue and replaces or fixes every trigger they have sold with this known flaw I will not even consider buying anything from them.
They purposely shipped these triggers with a known and obvious defect. Hold them accountable and keep anyone representing the 2A community honest!!
Bought one yesterday before researching, now wishing I didn’t. Whatever though, I’m hoping they fixed the issues but not holding my breath
What I did was stole s spring that I believe came from one of my echo 2 and I put a shorter spring that was slightly stronger it seems to work you can feel it stop binding when you're just manipulating it by hand and so far I haven't had a single malfunction that I was only 150 rounds so.... for what it's worth as soon as I get some more ammo I'll test it more
I feel like a stronger spring would have done a lot to help the issue too. Keep me posted!
It's a great way of fixing this trigger and I have fixed mine in the same manner ... they however used the wrong style spring ... a true auto sear uses the proper style spring for this application.... also spring stock from brownells ... I made my new spring
LOL.. Popped Spring == Instant Laugh. Been there too many times! Great video.
Great fix, I'd really like to find extra springs. I'm wondering if the inconel springs from PSA might be more durable. Great taste in Rum man. I love Guatemalan and Honduran rum.
No "agency" letter yet......sells as many as they can for the $$$$ before the agency rewrites the definition...... the consumer makes the necessary mods in order to rectify the defect of original design in order to function properly......flawless Capitalism! Not hating...just calling it. 🇺🇸👍🇺🇸👍🇺🇸
Thanks for the vid. Wish we knew if the mod you did worked as you didn’t disclose. Cheers!
This is the second video I see where that tab and spring are an issue. Rare breed triggers refuse to accept that its a design flaw with their trigger and blame the users..
I was on the verge of purchase. This is the third video that has addressed problems. I'll stick with semi-auto or the binaries until they fix the design flaws.
Just got mine today 5/25/21 and they have not done any fixes or mods to the trigger.
Just bought one, then I saw this...no wonder the outrageous gunbroker prices dropped.... well, that was $500 well spent... 👏
They were almost up to $1200 at one point... but most were 700-1000... ridiculous...But Im still going to get one. unless the state or feds bans them in between so 🤷🏻♂️
I'm not buying one until they cost less than 100 lol. Im probably gonna have to make my own in that case.
My condolences
Would love to see an update video. Just wanted to see if your mod will fixed the issue, and how mags or rounds you run through it.
Any follow up on how well this has held up and if there’s any response from rare breed for springs origin or upgrade or even if they intend on fixing the error. I just bought one haven’t ran it yet but after seeing this I’d rather not run it without having this remedied. Thankyou for all this wonderful information it’s a huge help. Would also possibly be interested in having you service the error seeing how you’ve done this more than likely a few times over now.
I'd say if they (manufacturer) wouldn't correct it, then create a new product of your own using the same principle but with the design flaw correction -- that would make it a new product and not a copyright infringement
The part number you need for the reverie trigger spring is McMasters Springs number C04018020C04018020 FYT trader spring from WB Jones and yeah I got that from bench 175
What’s the link to the spring?
@@jordangriffiths7215 you ever find it ?
By smoothing/rounding the edges of the hole in the housing will also decrease the bind on the spring. Spring is seated far enough in housing and "tab" that it is very unlikely the spring will be lost while in operation unless you get to crazy with smoothing the housing edge.
Thanks for makin this video. Did this before I installed the trigger, about 400 rounds down, running strong. Any update on replacement springs btw?
After reading the comments and watching the video it looks like rare breed is not ready for the big show.
really kinda seems that way, huh.
replacement springs you speak of: McMater Carr part # 9657K638 - .620" long x .120" OD x .084" ID
How were you able to determine this was the correct spring or did you get info from RBT? Part is relatively inexpensive, but shipping is usually much more than parts
@@alanlittle990 in my line of work i have the ability to back engineer parts and pcs.... i am also very grateful to have experienced people that i work with..... with that being said, we back engineered the OEM spring and came up with a very suitable replacement. RBT would NOT give any information.
Dont modify the trigger! It voids any possible future replacement and jepordizes the structual integrity. If your having problems with the spring being damaged just take the spring out of a BIC lighter and cut it slightly longer. Its a little smaller in diameter but i thought maybe that would give it room in the recess to shift rather than being pinched. Ive been running my BIC spring for at least 1000 rounds now and it hasnt been mis shaped at all, runs perfect.
I get what your saying but you’re speculating a warranty that isn’t implied or communicated in any way. Further more, Rare Breed hasn’t even acknowledged the issue, as a matter of fact, they did just the opposite and rolled out another batch of the exact same triggers. So, I’d rather fight that fight when I get to that point and be able to use the trigger up to that point
@@mp2103 sure there isnt a guarantee of a replacement but by modifying it you are guaranteeing there never will be, its not necessary though, BIC lighter spring works like a charm, try it
@@corywilley1595 we’ll agree to disagree. Your assumption that they won’t warranty it with this mod is the same as assuming they will warranty it at all. So far their customer service has ran and hid from the issue.
I will try the bic spring though! Thanks!
@@mp2103I get what your saying man, just sharing a solution ive found that doesnt require any power tools lol
@@mp2103 I know. They deny there is an issue.
Has anyone else had issues with single shots from this trigger? It seems to only want to double (or triple) and I'm seeing difficulty getting a single shot with it which makes it pretty much ineffective for anything other than a range toy
Get a franklin or fostec, or tac con 3mr, they all have a "semi" and "full semi" position rather than jist "full semi"
Can you post some images of the part your milled out so we can see a bit closer? And some after mod videos or performance?
My housing was to long in the front and I had to it mill down to make the pins line up. About .0250.
Thanks for the tip.
Ty for ur service to our country and the gun community
I'm trying to make a captive housing for the spring almost like a tiny hydraulic shock that pivots and working with a flatspring idea will post what works best
On their website they sell the Locking bar replacement for $25 and they also sell replacement springs for $3
My FRT-15 is still sitting in it's package waiting for a official or unofficial fix. Local gunsmiths are a no go as the last one i had do a simple laser bore zero busted the elevation on my scope.
I agree. The machining quality, drop-in fit and finish are commendable. The spring design was an afterthought and a violation of simple concepts of physics.
Tell your friend to let you weld up the current pocket and drill the correct 45 degree angled pocket. It would make for a great video series and proof of improved concept
the movement of the cam will never be linier for the spring to move properly. Totally terrible design.
I'm still on the fence, because as I've said before on other vids this isn't OBVIOUSLY a dmr type rifle trigger, more of a fire team CQB trigger. Love the trigger though. Hoping the NEW SPRING IS HEAVIER to resist the binding and kinking issue it has IN THE ORIGINAL VERSION.....
Thank you for sharing.
Thanks for the info!
Alright so after 2 weeks I received a reply from customer service and they claim that they started shipping the modified bevel after 3/1 so in my 2 triggers I just received I don’t see the bevel so either they’re full of it or they did it on such a way it’s mostly internal and a very very slight bevel. I’ll take them apart now abs find out
Thanks for your quick response to my email. Be safe and stay healthy.
What's his email , have one and ran a few mags , worked flawlessly just wanna get the fix beforehand...
I haven’t installed my trigger yet but, it appears that the forced reset lever located at the top rear of the trigger housing has a return spring that gets pinched between the lever and the housing and causes malfunctions. It may be caused by the spring pocket and lever not aligning during movement and or by to much pressure on the trigger. BROzooka arms has another good video on the problem and fix.
After the way they treated that other youtuber and refused to fix it or replace it and basically said "youre fucked", you should be bashing them.
Nice work. Really helpful video. I'd be interested is sending mine, but if not may give it a shot. Thanks
Excellent video it was very informative and well explained. I do have one question, did you ever test fire the gun after making the mod to the bar and did that resolve the problem?
So before I buy one. How much do you charge for the mod lol
There needs to be an articulating spring path similar to the "Cam over toggle engine" created by Hiperfire Triggers.
They could just put a spring in like a trigger spring and that would completely fix the problem and have less holes to mill. Just make a wider cut for the tab and put a different spring in it and call it a day
Have you run the trigger after the fix? How does it run and has it lasted? Thanks for the video!
have they corrected the design??... for roughly $300... they should own up and replace older models!!
Yeah. Good info. Thanks. I will wait until they fix this. This is a major issue and needs to be addressed before I buy.
Couldn't you just take that little coil spring out and replace it with a little steel flat-spring? Seems like it'd be a PERFECT application of that type of spring and I'd think it'd be REALLY easy to install...
Sure, I am in interested in sending this to you to fix.
It should have a stop. If it’s only supposed to travel a certain percentage of the way, have a stop so it can’t bend the spring.
Nice fix on the existing trigger , thought the same thing on the 45deg hole on the spring.
Nothing like paying premium prices for a trigger you have to fix.
Yeah its unfortunate for sure.
@@mp2103 I’ve never had to fix my CMC drop ins but if I did I’d certainly be looking for a replacement trigger to be sent or I’d find a better product.
@@daniellee3275 considering no product like this exists, good luck finding another but I hear what you’re saying
@@mp2103 I also understand your point but to be fair, any trigger should function properly for much longer than “a couple hundred rounds” when installed properly. You certainly installed it properly so my point is that for the cost it should be both fun and reliable. I place a priority on reliability so that’s my issue. Thank you for the video and explanation. I have considered buy a RB trigger but I have a hard time coughing up all that money.
@@daniellee3275 I have the same thoughts on reliability being paramount, however I would never use this trigger in a defensive platform. It would be restricted to a fun range gun due to the near impossibility of firing just a single round. I have one of these triggers and I hope that either rare breed or gunsmiths can figure out an easy fix for this problem that will bring reliability back to 100% so that I can pick up another AR to put this trigger in.
Have two, would love for you to do the spring mod!
Why wouldn't they just use a radial spring for this?
Is there another company that makes this trigger that's built correctly?
Not yet but there will be soon www.recoil-technology-systems.com/graves-v2-art.html#/
I think the spring design for that tab should be the same spring design as a HAMMER SPRING!! They should use the same SPRING DESIGN for that tab as an AR15 HAMMER SPRING only SMALLER. .OR the same SPRING DESIGN aas an M16 AUTO SEAR.
I thought the same
I haven't purchased one yet but is there a possibility of filling in the cavity the factory made and setting up the trigger in a milling machine and milling a 45 degree hole to house the spring
Oh yeah, I haven’t heard, yet, any such issues with the WOT, Wide Open Trigger which is a similar type trigger.
Hey MGG,
Just spitballing here,
But would it possible to install a slightly shortened spring with a rounded edge plunger pin at the end, similar to the spring and pin for the mag release button or captured retention pins that connects the upper to the lower?
I feel like that would alliviate the spring getting caught and bending while giving a smooth surface for the action to work
I tinkered with this idea myself. Something to the effect of a bolt release spring follower. The problem is but the time the tab is pushed forward by the BCG, the pocket in the tab and the pocket in the housing are so far out of line it’s still going to distort the spring in the middle. You’d still need some sort of relief in the bottom of the black tab to keep the tension off the middle of the spring.
I like where your heads at though! Same place I went initially.
If there’s a gen-2, a better solution for rare breed would be to use a torsion spring because torsion springs are designed for non-linear motion. Due to the pivoting nature of that piece, there will always be some degree of non-linear motion in this application no matter the angle of the spring recesses. The non-linear motion can be reduced and/or alleviated as you put it, but not eliminated.
Thumbs up for WV
Compare that spring to the springs in the ar lower kit. They look very similar
I was really hoping these triggers didn't have any issues!!
I sent an email to Big Daddy Unlimited ( only authorized dealer) after watching a Brozooka Arms clip addressing this same issue and never heard back from them. I wanted to see if there is a repair/ replacement program being offered.
My question is, if we repair and modify our triggers without sending them back to the factory are we violating some obscure atf law and setting ourselves up for some wrist bracelets and quality time making gov license plates?
Yeah. I’ve emailed them through several channels. Their customer service seems to be lacking pretty bad.
I’m hoping they step up and fix it and/or offer a replace for this version
I think In order to break any laws here, you’d have to be attempting to modify the original function to function in a way that is out side the legal confines of the law. What I’m doing here is a mod to make the trigger function at is should, which is legal in its original state.
Youre the dude who writes all the letters to the atf causing issues. What the fuck kind of pussy are you. Seriously.
@@mp2103 BDU has not impressed me, luckily I didn't use my main email but they SPAM your inbox. On top of that, they don't have anything in stock. I'm not going to pay for a service with nothing in stock.
I was gonna buy one and after they tried to say touching that bar n spring can brake it..lol just foolish ..why they are saying that is crap ..just bad design on a killer trigger..they should stop the bs and fix it not blame ppl touching the bar
Don't touch it but it's ok if the bcg slams into it .
Good idea on the trigger modification. I may try it as I am handy with a dremel. i am gonna wait to see Rare Breed's response. By the way do you have or paln to have a video shooting that pistol with the modification?
I just received a email from rare breed and the triggers are back in stock (300) however, there is no mention of a updated or newly designed trigger?
Thanks again
Can we get a better close up video of you fixing the trigger? It's out of focus in the video when you show it.
I am anxiously awaiting the arrival of my FRT-15 (FINALLY got the back-in-stock email in time, two days ago!) so I haven't even held one, let alone experienced this problem and developed and tested a solution.... But looking at all these videos about a spring that is misaligned with its direction of compression, I can't help wondering if the simplest and most durable fix wouldn't be to cut and fit a chunk of elastomer to fill that entire cavity in the back of the trigger assembly. There may or may not be sufficient clearance to retain it with one or two tiny zipties; if necessary it would be fairly simple to drill and pin it and the trigger. Does that seem like a viable possibility? I have some heavy black rubber sheet material that was discarded at work despite being in brand new unused condition; I am sure it is at least 1/2" thick. I would be glad to cut a piece (even though cutting this stuff is a MAJOR pain in the butt!) and send it to you to experiment with, if it seems worth the trouble. I would just try it myself, but nearly all of my shooting is done at an indoor range where extensive FRT-15 testing would probably be frowned upon....
Good shit man great video appreciate the info.
Unfortunately the quality of the parts doesn’t make up for the design flaw, lack of quality control and virtually no customer support other than if you don’t like your trigger, list it on gun broker and get your money back. Gee, thanks Rare Breed. Way to take care of your customers who drooped $350 on your defective trigger design (that could be easily addressed and corrected). Btw potential customer, the issue is not with your weapon platform. It lies in a design flaw concerning the angle of a reset spring within the trigger housing itself. Caveat emptor.
Anyways, did this solve your problem?
Put mine in yesterday and it only ran 2 mags before the spring fuxked up
Good video. My issue is less that spring, which I already fixed on mine and my buddys, and more with the over travel on the trigger. It’s very easy to apply too much pressure to the trigger & end up locking the bolt back. Is there a way to adjust for that over travel? I don’t know if it’s the underside trigger spring or the contacts on the reset trigger. But 99% of run fails in my experience are over pull on what is already a very sensitive trigger system,
over travel? the hammer moving backward should be forcing(and locking) the trigger forward, the only thing I would think that would cause that is a non-auto/m16 bolt?
Might try dropping a heavier trigger spring in it? I have had no issues with over travel and no issues with the trigger since fixing the lever spring issue. I just dropped a 6.5lb. spring in mine to see if I can get easier singles.
2 things, what's the possibility of the spring slipping out of the cut out?
2nd- Does the lever rotate enough that would allow something like a metal sheath/cap over the spring? Something like the buffer retaining pin? Or something that resembles a bolt catch plunger?
(Just thinking of drop in solutions)
Adding to next comment oops- when I couldn’t find the exact spring I needed. And it seems for this trigger, even with the mod it would be a good idea to have a couple extras on hand.
Any update from someone using it modded? What is the performance compared to the standard? Did it fix the issue?