6:50. No, it’s not silly 🙃 It’s great. We all do that. I tend to record my humming into Pro-Tools (to a tickin metronome in pre-determined target tempo of course) on an audio track, then create an instrument track with the piano or trumpet patch, and put my humming into notes transcribing myself. Then use the function “Send to Sibelius”, and voila ! It works every single time, it’s effective and leads to idiomatic, and extremely natural writing. Sometimes I hum like for 10 minutes, and trust me : some of the phrasing I would probably never create by just intellectualizing it… Love your videos - recommend them all.
Thank you for all of the instructional videos Elliot. They have helped me a lot as a very early beginner big band arranger and composer. The advice given here as well as your arrangement of pure imagination (which is my personal favourite arrangement I've ever heard of the piece) gave me the idea to arrange pure imagination as a bossa nova so thank you for the inspiration.
I just finished arranging john cages 4'33. Actually it's in cut time so it's only 2'16 but I added a bunch of solos to fill time. Getting eighth note rests to swing is harder than it sounds. If your interested in not playing it I can send you the charts
9:15 Rythmic Pads are what I feel greatly define Big Band Swing. My favorite one to use is all brass playing: (bracketed numbers aren't played) "(1)AND,(2and), 3(and), (4)" Basically, the 'te' of 1 and the downbeat of 3.
You’re having so much fun in these videos, which BTW, are getting so great, by your editing down the info to the nitty gritty stuff…that’s what makes them so interesting…the tasty tid bits that one might not even think to ask about!
You are my favorite person ever. I've been looking for someone who actually cares enough to explain everything relating to all of this. So helpful! thank you.
No matter how many textbooks I read or videos I watch, I always learn at least a little something new every time a talented arranger like you posts about arranging. Thanks for the great stuff.
Elliot, I’ve been arranging for several years, although I thought what I was doing sounded decent your videos have given me so many fresh ideas, especially in voicing. I like how you went into depth on your lessons. The idea of being able to rewind a video and and double checking a subject really helps. Thanks so much…
A big big compliment from my side to you.. you have a very refreshing and interesting creative Art to present your work. I can’t stop listening to you…❤️👍🎺 thanks for sharing..😊
Great video as always! My only suggestion for future parts in this series would be to show sheet music/playback for the areas that you reference or hum throughout the video, although I know that that would be a lot more editing and hassle. But thank you so much, i’ve been wanting a video like this forever!
Figuring out the right balance of sheet music versus face is difficult and a constant learning experience. Thank you for the feedback and let me know if I get a better balance in part 2!
Thanks, man, this was a huge help in getting a chart ready recently for an ASMAC playdown. I followed your advice about the saxes (write them in their clef range) as much as I could, and they NAILED it! Good advice about the brass, too. Used info from some of your other vids, and it all really helped. Thanks again!
@@PandemoniumBigBand "Toyland". Such a thrill to hear these musicians put a soul into the written notes. I still can't get over the sax solo... incredible! Thanks again!
ay man this is really good and I learned a lot about it but I just want to give one small advice as a bass trombone player, i find that when trombone parts are high like that where the bass bone is over like D on the middle of the staff the whole section is playing very high and its going to be very over powering and should be used either when you want a very bright powerful hit or if you want them to play in mutes, bass bone can comfortable play down to D below the staff so dont be afraid to use it because we want to play it lol
That’s generally good advise. Having written music for big band for over 15 years, I’ve found, from tons of repetition and experimentation and score study, that trombone sections sound best when lead trombone is playing with 2-3 ledger lines above the bass clef staff. That said, bass trombone (specifically) serves a double purpose of sounding great as a 4th trombone toward the top of the bass clef, and also belting out low notes below the staff, way below the other 3 trombones. Maybe I should make a bass trombone-specific tutorial someday.
Amazing video as always. I was wondering, what are some good sources to get the charts for famous big band songs so we can analyze them? Thanks for your time. Keep up the good work.
I would start with a book called “Inside the Score.” That book has the scores to a few classic charts complete with fully analysis and explanations. Next I would look at eBay or local music stores. Often stores sell off jar copies of old sheet music for next to nothing. And a lot of those published charts come with full scores. You can also buy a lot of those charts (including the score) from a reputable music publisher, think Hal Leonard, Alfred, Kendor, UNC, etc. the charts they sell will be clear and correct. I would stay far away from unauthorized transcriptions. Those tend to be full of mistakes and wrong orchestration, etc. Finally, if you’re interested in analyzing my charts, join my Patreon. Patrons who pledge $10/month get a concert pitch score each month.
I've been an amateur composer for over 10 years. It's just a hobby for me, but I've gotten pretty good at it over the years. I write solos mostly. I like seeing how other people compose music, even if I don't write big band. I feel like I can learn from anything and adopt it in some way. I like this idea of having multiple instruments play the same melody separated by some interval. Do you not experiment with different types of intervals, given there are potentially 11 more? Or what if you have 7 instruments separated by a diatonic second from the one above, like hearing the entire scale at once in every direction. I think like a maniac (i legit have bipolar) so my music can get wild. If you read this comment and are interested in hearing my compositions, I can link you. I've been wanting to collaberate with other musicians, but I'm not a good performer (though I practice) and spend my time deeply investigating jazz theory and music production. Thanks for the educational content!
Good question! The short answer is the same reason why a left hand chord on piano doesn't sound as rich as a one-octave lower right hand chord... the higher octave harmony sounds thinner than the lower octave. The other reason is that 4-part, unsupported trumpets is a characteristic sound of 1920-30's swing music. I only use that sound when I am specifically trying to make my arrangement sound period correct.
Im curious, did you drag the saxophones voices around manually for just video purposes? Just wondering because once I figured out the Sibelius “explode feature” it really sped up the process of voicing sections for me. Nice work!
I actually write by nudging the notes up and down like that. For me it is faster than writing a condensed version in a treble staff and then exploding the parts. But if that system is faster for you, then by all means it is how you should be arranging!
@@PandemoniumBigBand I write like this too! I've never understood how people do it with the explode feature. It makes for a mess of accidentals and having it already spread out makes it much easier for me to actively think about voice leading as I write.
Forgive this newbie question (I’m new to big band arranging and haven’t used Sibelius for years): I assume Sibelius has a “swing” command to have it play back the notes in a swing rhythm. Can you also make certain sections exempt from that (for example, the 16th notes that the saxes played)? Nice video. Will be interested in the ones that follow.
That is a very sensible question. In Sibelius, the easiest way to make it playback with swing phrasing is to write swing in the metronome mark at the beginning of the chart. In swing music, 16th notes are always played straight. I think Sibelius has been playing the 16ths properly since version 8.
If you write great arrangements, you will attract great musicians to come and read them. Virtual instruments can only approximate the sound of a real jazz band at best.
Maybe this is a dumb question, but I'm a pianist that is just starting out with writing music for wind instruments - I saw in your score that all the instruments are in F major, but from what I understand, most of the wind instruments should be transposed a whole tone higher, including the key of the music...? A clarinet player from the big band I play in explained it to me once, but now I'm not sure if I understand it correctly :D
I compose on concert pitch. Engraving software (eg Sibelius) let you view the score in either concert pitch or transposed. The parts are very much transposed for the instruments.
@@PandemoniumBigBand hahaha videos are great mate. Great resource for peeps like me trying to learn. Looking forward to hearing how this develops. Love the approach of singing parts too.
My name is Elliot Deutsch. I don't like to talk about myself in every one of my videos, but I give a brief bio in my first tutorial: "Closed Voicing." I have MuseScore on my computer but I use Sibelius mostly.
I use Sibelius for composing and typesetting my scores and parts. In these demos you are hearing the general MIDI playback directly from Sibelius. Of course I could export into Logic and make things sound more realistic… but when I am planning on playing my arrangement with a real band, I’d it worth the time? I’m actually working on a video about this exact topic!
@@PandemoniumBigBand Then the rigid rules of traditional harmony, such as the prohibition of parallel fifths and octaves, doubling thirds and hundreds of prohibitions used in jazz harmony?
Check out my recent video about Form. Essentially, I feel that 5 minutes is a good maximum length for a big band arrangement like the one I’m writing. 3 minutes would be about the shortest that would feel right.
@@PandemoniumBigBand thanks Elliott. I have tutors who insist on an 8 minutes rule and for beginners its a big ask to maintain interest over that time. 5 minutes seems accessible
@@douglasbrownlie5271 8 minutes is appropriate for a more modern style composition, with extended development, etc. The kind of music that a college jazz ensemble might perform. 5 minutes is better for strictly entertainment purposes. And this is definitely more of a rule-of-thumb than an actual rule.
Does anyone else find this chap's love for the music infectious?
He is happy as hell 😅
Yes
He’s got that Chris Farley laugh. 😃
Indeed!
No, I've had that all my life 😎
6:50. No, it’s not silly 🙃 It’s great. We all do that. I tend to record my humming into Pro-Tools (to a tickin metronome in pre-determined target tempo of course) on an audio track, then create an instrument track with the piano or trumpet patch, and put my humming into notes transcribing myself. Then use the function “Send to Sibelius”, and voila ! It works every single time, it’s effective and leads to idiomatic, and extremely natural writing. Sometimes I hum like for 10 minutes, and trust me : some of the phrasing I would probably never create by just intellectualizing it…
Love your videos - recommend them all.
Thank you for all of the instructional videos Elliot. They have helped me a lot as a very early beginner big band arranger and composer. The advice given here as well as your arrangement of pure imagination (which is my personal favourite arrangement I've ever heard of the piece) gave me the idea to arrange pure imagination as a bossa nova so thank you for the inspiration.
Your Brazilian fans are having a ball! Many thanks; great stuff!
Thank you Roberto!
I just finished arranging john cages 4'33. Actually it's in cut time so it's only 2'16 but I added a bunch of solos to fill time. Getting eighth note rests to swing is harder than it sounds. If your interested in not playing it I can send you the charts
Ha! So silly
@@PandemoniumBigBand I know it sounds silly but wait till you dont hear it played live.
Absolutely wonderful, Elliot. Love the textures you create and your best tip-sing what you want to write. Oh year!! We’ll talk again soon!!
9:15 Rythmic Pads are what I feel greatly define Big Band Swing. My favorite one to use is all brass playing: (bracketed numbers aren't played)
"(1)AND,(2and), 3(and), (4)"
Basically, the 'te' of 1 and the downbeat of 3.
This is really great, man! I'm a beginner big band arranger and I'm gaining SO much from watching these videos, thank you so much!
Great to hear! Definitely share these with your friends!
Gary Lindsay has written an extremely valuable book called "Jazz Arranging Techniques from Big Band to Quartet" (something like that)
You’re having so much fun in these videos, which BTW, are getting so great, by your editing down the info to the nitty gritty stuff…that’s what makes them so interesting…the tasty tid bits that one might not even think to ask about!
Wow thank you so much. I am so glad that you are watching these!
You are my favorite person ever. I've been looking for someone who actually cares enough to explain everything relating to all of this. So helpful! thank you.
I am glad you’re watching and I hope videos like this inspire you to get writing!
Brilliant. Good Morning. Not sure how I found you here today but you popped up somehow. Excellent
💝💝💝💝💝💝💝💝💝
😍
No matter how many textbooks I read or videos I watch, I always learn at least a little something new every time a talented arranger like you posts about arranging. Thanks for the great stuff.
Thank you so much Jarrod!
Elliot,
I’ve been arranging for several years, although I thought what I was doing sounded decent your videos have given me so many fresh ideas, especially in voicing.
I like how you went into depth on your lessons. The idea of being able to rewind a video and and double checking a subject really helps. Thanks so much…
You are very welcome. Glad you are learning so much!
A big big compliment from my side to you.. you have a very refreshing and interesting creative Art to present your work. I can’t stop listening to you…❤️👍🎺 thanks for sharing..😊
Thank you so much!
Someday I will have time to follow you with time, thanks for sharing the process! Thanks again!
Thanx, Maestro 🌹🌹🌹
Welcome!
Thank for sharing these valuable ideas!
Wow. This stuff is just AWESOME, Elliot. I really appreciate what you're doing here.
Thank you for following along!
Great video as always! My only suggestion for future parts in this series would be to show sheet music/playback for the areas that you reference or hum throughout the video, although I know that that would be a lot more editing and hassle. But thank you so much, i’ve been wanting a video like this forever!
Figuring out the right balance of sheet music versus face is difficult and a constant learning experience. Thank you for the feedback and let me know if I get a better balance in part 2!
thanks for that!!! Great arranging!
Thanks, man, this was a huge help in getting a chart ready recently for an ASMAC playdown. I followed your advice about the saxes (write them in their clef range) as much as I could, and they NAILED it! Good advice about the brass, too. Used info from some of your other vids, and it all really helped. Thanks again!
Great to hear! Which chart was yours? All of them sounded great
@@PandemoniumBigBand "Toyland". Such a thrill to hear these musicians put a soul into the written notes. I still can't get over the sax solo... incredible! Thanks again!
Outstanding videos! I am learning a lot from these outstanding sessions!
I love this guy!
Could you do a video of how to write for pop horns
Yes. I’ll add that to my list of ideas. That’s a good one.
So cool. To me, big band is the highest expression of a melody.
I agree
This is edifying
Great idea!!! So helpful !!
So glad!
Whoah ... Deep, stuff
Lots to take in a bit at a time
Deeper than the typical UA-cam fair…
Thank you, Elliot. Always interesting!
Wait until part 2! (I haven’t written any more of the chart yet)
My scores will always be Landscape, Legal Sized, 8 bars front and back. I find that to be the most comfortable for me to look at.
If it works for you... do it!
Impecable
Interested that you said "Trumpets don't sound great voiced into 4 parts by themselves". Can you elaborate Elliot?
Congrats on the 2K my friend! Great video as always.
Thank you! I honestly never thought I’d get here. I am surprised people are interested in big band arranging!
Nice work!
Thank you! Cheers!
ay man this is really good and I learned a lot about it but I just want to give one small advice as a bass trombone player, i find that when trombone parts are high like that where the bass bone is over like D on the middle of the staff the whole section is playing very high and its going to be very over powering and should be used either when you want a very bright powerful hit or if you want them to play in mutes, bass bone can comfortable play down to D below the staff so dont be afraid to use it because we want to play it lol
That’s generally good advise. Having written music for big band for over 15 years, I’ve found, from tons of repetition and experimentation and score study, that trombone sections sound best when lead trombone is playing with 2-3 ledger lines above the bass clef staff. That said, bass trombone (specifically) serves a double purpose of sounding great as a 4th trombone toward the top of the bass clef, and also belting out low notes below the staff, way below the other 3 trombones. Maybe I should make a bass trombone-specific tutorial someday.
Great!!!
What program do you use? That play back sounds amazing!
Nice video. Can you do a part where you go into more detail about the harmonies you use between the horns?
Check out my video “Closed Voicing”. I made 2 parts. It covers the basics. Then watch my videos on “Non-Chord Tones,” and “Sax Voicing”
Amazing video as always. I was wondering, what are some good sources to get the charts for famous big band songs so we can analyze them?
Thanks for your time. Keep up the good work.
I would start with a book called “Inside the Score.” That book has the scores to a few classic charts complete with fully analysis and explanations. Next I would look at eBay or local music stores. Often stores sell off jar copies of old sheet music for next to nothing. And a lot of those published charts come with full scores. You can also buy a lot of those charts (including the score) from a reputable music publisher, think Hal Leonard, Alfred, Kendor, UNC, etc. the charts they sell will be clear and correct. I would stay far away from unauthorized transcriptions. Those tend to be full of mistakes and wrong orchestration, etc. Finally, if you’re interested in analyzing my charts, join my Patreon. Patrons who pledge $10/month get a concert pitch score each month.
I've been an amateur composer for over 10 years. It's just a hobby for me, but I've gotten pretty good at it over the years. I write solos mostly. I like seeing how other people compose music, even if I don't write big band. I feel like I can learn from anything and adopt it in some way. I like this idea of having multiple instruments play the same melody separated by some interval. Do you not experiment with different types of intervals, given there are potentially 11 more? Or what if you have 7 instruments separated by a diatonic second from the one above, like hearing the entire scale at once in every direction. I think like a maniac (i legit have bipolar) so my music can get wild. If you read this comment and are interested in hearing my compositions, I can link you. I've been wanting to collaberate with other musicians, but I'm not a good performer (though I practice) and spend my time deeply investigating jazz theory and music production. Thanks for the educational content!
Have subbed!
Great stuff, really very helpful and interesting! If I may ask, just way does trumpets not sound good in four part close voicings by them selves?
Good question! The short answer is the same reason why a left hand chord on piano doesn't sound as rich as a one-octave lower right hand chord... the higher octave harmony sounds thinner than the lower octave. The other reason is that 4-part, unsupported trumpets is a characteristic sound of 1920-30's swing music. I only use that sound when I am specifically trying to make my arrangement sound period correct.
@@PandemoniumBigBand Thanks for that, great answer! :-)
Excelente cada uno de sus videos. Sería muy bueno tener la traducción a español.
Muchos Gracias!
Would you consider offering advice on writing for a small group e.g. tpt. 2 saxes and rhythm/
Im curious, did you drag the saxophones voices around manually for just video purposes?
Just wondering because once I figured out the Sibelius “explode feature” it really sped up the process of voicing sections for me.
Nice work!
I actually write by nudging the notes up and down like that. For me it is faster than writing a condensed version in a treble staff and then exploding the parts. But if that system is faster for you, then by all means it is how you should be arranging!
@@PandemoniumBigBand I write like this too! I've never understood how people do it with the explode feature. It makes for a mess of accidentals and having it already spread out makes it much easier for me to actively think about voice leading as I write.
Where did you say you got the chords from? I didn't catch it.
The song is The Girl from Ipanema. I think I used the original chords. Maybe I started with the chords in iReal Pro.
@@PandemoniumBigBand Thanks
Can I ask which A3 binder you use. So difficult to find machines here in the UK. Thanks
I bought a comb binder over 15 years ago. It’s still going strong, but I don’t think it’s still on the market!
Forgive this newbie question (I’m new to big band arranging and haven’t used Sibelius for years): I assume Sibelius has a “swing” command to have it play back the notes in a swing rhythm. Can you also make certain sections exempt from that (for example, the 16th notes that the saxes played)? Nice video. Will be interested in the ones that follow.
That is a very sensible question. In Sibelius, the easiest way to make it playback with swing phrasing is to write swing in the metronome mark at the beginning of the chart. In swing music, 16th notes are always played straight. I think Sibelius has been playing the 16ths properly since version 8.
The salary for 17 musicians to pay charts is much higher than a VST library so tell us which way should we focus our gift for music?
If you write great arrangements, you will attract great musicians to come and read them. Virtual instruments can only approximate the sound of a real jazz band at best.
Maybe this is a dumb question, but I'm a pianist that is just starting out with writing music for wind instruments - I saw in your score that all the instruments are in F major, but from what I understand, most of the wind instruments should be transposed a whole tone higher, including the key of the music...? A clarinet player from the big band I play in explained it to me once, but now I'm not sure if I understand it correctly :D
I compose on concert pitch. Engraving software (eg Sibelius) let you view the score in either concert pitch or transposed. The parts are very much transposed for the instruments.
Ace 👌
I could use more slap bass in my life! Thanks for checking out the latest tutorial!
@@PandemoniumBigBand hahaha videos are great mate. Great resource for peeps like me trying to learn. Looking forward to hearing how this develops. Love the approach of singing parts too.
Can musescore 3 do that
Where the hell did you get a groove to arrange the girl from Ipanema as a swing?
Arranging a popular boss’s nova as a swing chart felt vaguely original, though it’s definitely been done before.
9:37
“Unlike Trumpets, trombones sound great…” You could’ve ended the sentence there, and you almost did lol
any tips for street band writing? btw what is your name . are you on musescore
My name is Elliot Deutsch. I don't like to talk about myself in every one of my videos, but I give a brief bio in my first tutorial: "Closed Voicing." I have MuseScore on my computer but I use Sibelius mostly.
Hi Elliot ! Which software do you use to write your scores both for midi and sheet writing. Is it possible to use Logic pro to hear midi parts ?
I use Sibelius for composing and typesetting my scores and parts. In these demos you are hearing the general MIDI playback directly from Sibelius. Of course I could export into Logic and make things sound more realistic… but when I am planning on playing my arrangement with a real band, I’d it worth the time? I’m actually working on a video about this exact topic!
@@PandemoniumBigBand, thanks a lot ... Elliot ! Nice that you are working on this topic. See you later.
Hi Elliot - what do you use to edit your videos and add titles in bold yellow?
Final Cut Pro. My titles are all basic text. I adjust all of the parameters to get the look I’m going for.
What is harder:
Traditional harmony or jazz harmony? From Brasil
Traditional harmony and jazz harmony are the same thing. The vocabulary is different
@@PandemoniumBigBand Then the rigid rules of traditional harmony, such as the prohibition of parallel fifths and octaves, doubling thirds and hundreds of prohibitions used in jazz harmony?
@@miltonderezende7906Avoiding parallel 5ths, direct octaves, etc is NOT traditional harmony. Those rules only apply to Bach-style 4-part chorals.
@@PandemoniumBigBand Tks fer information
Dropped 2?
Good eye
What is the five minute barrier ?
Check out my recent video about Form. Essentially, I feel that 5 minutes is a good maximum length for a big band arrangement like the one I’m writing. 3 minutes would be about the shortest that would feel right.
@@PandemoniumBigBand thanks Elliott. I have tutors who insist on an 8 minutes rule and for beginners its a big ask to maintain interest over that time. 5 minutes seems accessible
@@douglasbrownlie5271 8 minutes is appropriate for a more modern style composition, with extended development, etc. The kind of music that a college jazz ensemble might perform. 5 minutes is better for strictly entertainment purposes. And this is definitely more of a rule-of-thumb than an actual rule.
Sounds as if it should be a faster tempo.
That’s the beauty of writing your own arrangement… you can choose the tempo. I chose medium/slow swing for this version.