New Cold Fusion Device Successfully Generates Heat -- What does it mean?
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- Опубліковано 9 лют 2025
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The video with the demonstration is here: • HYLENR | Worlds First ...
A new cold fusion claim was made by the Indian company HYLENR. I had a look -- and I have some comments.
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#sciencenews #science #tech #technews #coldfusion
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool."
-Richard Feynman
That quote is a sensible reply to a huge number of UA-cam comments.
It's Finally completed: ua-cam.com/video/ULDI-8gIYPM/v-deo.html
@@brothermine2292
Generally, no, not really. 99 times out of 100 the best response is to either explain without insult where someone has gone wrong, or provide no response at all. Insults cause people to dismiss you or become defensive.
And Feynman was not pointing out a flaw that some people have. He was describing human nature.
It is not something you can insult others with and pretend it doesn't affect you. If you believe it doesn't, you simply aren't noticing it.
This comment applies to both the scientist and the critic. The problem is that 99.9999% of the time the extraordinary claim is mistaken but the rare case of new physics has the potential to change the entire structure of society. There may be a real phenomenon hidden in this mess, as the 2019 Nature paper "Revisiting the cold case of cold fusion" points out.
>alansmithee419 : True, leading off with a reply that will be interpreted as an insult is unproductive. I typically either ask the commenter to explain why s/he believes what s/he claimed but neglected to support with reasoning, or point out an error or unproved assumption in the reasoning. Feynman's quote would be better at the end of the discussion.
I have the same degree of confidence in this demonstration that I have in those videos on Facebook where an Indian gentleman demonstrates multiple free energy machines that he has built with lightbulbs, a fan and a few random components.
Pardon me, this has nothing to do with Indian, the self-delusionists and crooks are uniformly spread around the Globe
And of course the big black mystery box that must never ever be opened.
magnets, don't forget magnets too!
Not only Indian, haven seen a US gentlemen doing the same.
Sieht ganz so aus, dass die SKEPTIKER überwögen. Wenn dieser Effekt sich jedoch in einem sauerstoffbefreitem Raum über unbegrenzt lange Zeit nur per Wasserstofzufügungskontinuität im Experiment bestätigt, erhärtet, folglich nicht Phantasie, sondern Realität wäre, was dann, liebe ungläubige Skeptiker?
Man kann auch auf seinen eigenen Pessimismus hereinfallen, ist bekannt.
Was aber, wenn es die Wahrheit wäre? Dann ließe sich der globale Energiebedarf zuerst damit ergänzen um dann zunehmend Bisheriges ersetztend es gar komplett abzulösen. Bestechend wäre das Verhältnis Aufwand Nutzen und dass keine erkennbaren Gefahren drohen, keine schädliche Strahlung gemessen werden konnte, außer hoffnungsmachender Wärmestrahlung. Ich habe auch eine wissenschaftlich technische Revolution begründet und freue mich, dass es außer mir noch andere KREATIVE gibt.
Meine folgende Meinungsäußerung ist nicht nur bequemes Lippenbekenntnis sondern kulminiert schließlich und endlich in WISSENSCHAFTLICH TECHNISCHER REVOLUTION und daraus abfolgenden Handeln/Verhalten. Das bedeutet, dass ich lese und darüber nachdenke.
So fand ich beispielsweise in allgemein zugänglicher Literatur zuerst wissenschaftliche Fehler. Beispielsweise eine Verneinung des Energieerhaltungssatzes. Davon ausgehend korrgierte ich sie nach Erkenntnisgewinn aus Experimenten. Die Ableitung ist ein Axiom:
Axiom, die Synergie von ZIRKULATION und DYNAMISCHEM AUFTRIEB betreffend:
„Dynamischer Auftrieb resultiert aus Kampf und Einheit von Gegensätzen, dem Zusammentreffen von Zirkulation und Seitlicher Anströmung (Anwendung 1. dialektisches Grundgesetz).
- Innert seitlicher Anströmung erfährt jedwedes zirkular umströmte Objekt, jeder Körper, ausnahmslos alles D i n g l i c h e des Universums, unabhängig Größe, Gewicht, Form oder Beschaffenheit, eine Querkraft - DYNAMISCHER AUFTRIEB.
- Dynamischer Auftrieb ist jene Querkraft, die jedwedes zirkular umströmte Etwas innerhalb einer weiteren, einer seitlichen Anströmung erfährt.
- Eine als „Seitlich“ bezeichnete Anströmung“ schließt (wortwörtlich/ im Wortsinn) eine Strömungsrichtung als parallel der Zirkulationsachse aus.
- Die notwendige Zirkulation kann
a) außer ihrer spontanen Entstehung bei zweckmäßig zielgerichtet "schrägem" Anstellwinkel von Tragflügelprofilen (Segel, Kite-Drachen, Tragflächen, Flügel, Turbinen, Propeller, Schiffsschrauben, aufsteigende größere, also nicht kugelförmige Luftbläschen in Flüssigkeiten) bezüglich jener seitlichen Anströmung
b) als Folgezirkulation von Rotation (a la Konfettifall in Medium Gas samt folgender Reibung/Formschlüssigkeit!)
c) auch anderswie, nämlich extern, schalt-, regel-, richtungsänder- und umschaltbar bewirkt werden.
Zum Zwecke, somit jenen gewünschten Auftrieb analog schalt-, regel- richtungsänderbar zu generieren.
- Zirkulation und Auftrieb treten innert seitlicher Anströmung entweder gemeinsam, zusammenwirkend, oder gar nicht auf.
- Dieses synergetische Zusammenwirken ist nur in einem sehr kleinen Bereich proportional. Denn beispielsweise behauptet die KUTTA-Auftriebsformel (Faktor mal Faktor mal Faktor gleich Produkt) mathematisch betrachtet, indirekt Proportionalität, ist jedoch durch die Wirkung des ENERGIEERHALTUNGSSATZES auf einen konkreten Gültigkeitsbereich begrenzt (Angebliche "Faustregel" ohne ausdrückliche Begründung durch das Wirken vom Energieerhaltungssatz sei:
"Auftriebszuwachs endet etwa zwischen dem Eintreten/Erreichens des Dreieinhalb- bis Vierfachen der Zirkulationsgeschwindigkeit bezogen auf die Geschwindigkeit der seitlichen Anströmung", (aktenkundig im Brief Göttinger Windkanalbetreiber an den Herrn Ingenieur FLETTNER bei der Prüfung seiner Rotor-Intention/Invention)."
Ich leitete daraus aktenkundig eine wissenschaftlich technische Revolution ab (patents.google.com/patent/DE102019003352A1/de).
Das alles der existierenden Wissenschaft ENERGIE IN STRÖMUNGEN/DYNAMISCHER AUFTRIEB zu überlassen war global nicht möglich weil nicht gewünscht. Also halte ich mich an Richard Buckminster Fuller und seinen Rat: "„Du veränderst Dinge nicht, indem Du die bestehende Realität bekämpfst. Um etwas zu verbessern, musst Du ein neues Modell erschaffen, welches das bestehende Modell überflüssig macht. “
Und ich entwarf ein neues, besseres Modell für menschlichen Umgang mit Strömungen.
I can generate heat with pure hydrogen as well if I just light it on fire
Hydrogen? I can use wood!
not without oxygen as well
😂
Good luck with that.
I can generate heat just by heading to Taco Bell and having lunch, then waiting a few hours. Methane based explosive heat!
"they should consult some chemists". In my time studying physics, nothing was more abundantly clear than that practically every physics research team needed a chemist.
My first thought: is it a mystery box that no one is allowed to look inside?
If they published their data (under a patent) to recreate this elsewhere it's not a scam.
Maybe that's what Sabine meant.
But it could still be just like LK99 - lot's of hype for nothing.
Still very exciting though, as was the room temp/pressure S.C. story :)
It’s the same kind of mystery box that Google and Facebook keep in their data centers. It’s called IP, something you should know enough about. Ah… I forgot, IP is only for white people. Everything made by brown people is yours by default.
It contains a SIM card, soldered to a cheese grater. Also has an Arduino to drive the display and a hotdog which is warm.
@@mimetype I KNEW IT! 😁
It's final completed: ua-cam.com/video/ULDI-8gIYPM/v-deo.html
You can look at it all you want as a physicist, but I look at their demonstration as an electrical hobbyist and I can tell you right away that those power meters are /not/ precision instruments. They don't have the guaranteed stability or calibration for the measurements they claim. There's an easy way to handle that though: A switch between the meters and test rig that can transpose the connections, so you can quickly switch the meters around. Any error from the meters will be easily revealed that way. You still have to construct all the electrical connections with care to ensure equal resistance on each side too.
The errors wouldn't be large enough to create the readings they are seeing, if they were claiming a 5% difference then yes swap, but they aren't talking about that scale, it's something else as per the video.
I'll wait for a complete, peer-reviewed study, before congratulating with them 😊
Thanks for this Video, Sabine.
The correct way to observe the LENR reaction is to see what it does to matter using a electron microscope with EDS. We found that the reaction creates hollow crenulated microballs of iron and oxygen. Some systems produce rare earth balls. Observing output from the reaction is problematic because of the domain wall that forms around the active agent.
Do you want to convince @reps to do some cold fusion 😂
So, they put hydrogen in and measure excess heat and conclude it must be nuclear fusion. I am not a physicist, nor do I play one on UA-cam, but even my feeble mathematician brain immediately said, Show me the Helium! Hey, maybe they'll find a new way to compute pi.
Maybe it can heat PI? :-)
Don’t be so jealous. “They” also invented the zero. Deal with itX
It MUST generate helium-3 and free neutrons if it's using the process hypothesized in muon-catalyzed fusion.
Does it use a hyper-pure palladium crystal? Because that's one of the other critical factors. Only palladium crystals allow the trapping of hydrogen ions in the crystal structure in just such an arrangement which puts the hydrogen in a position where it can be bombarded by electrons under high current and voltage and is hypothesized to allow the transformation of a tiny fraction of these hydrogen ions into neutrons that then bombard other trapped hydrogen.
However, this had previously only been done with deuterium, and the neutron being absorbed releases the absorbed election and becomes a proton again, creating helium-3.
@@friedmule5403it's OK if it can't heat PI, PI is OK cold.
Scammers
In the 1980's there was a guy who'd go to all the electronics shows and demonstrate a device which would double the processing speed of any computer, without requiring more energy. He couldn't explain how the device worked, as he barely spoke English (I think he was from Singapore), but it worked! All speed tests which were run, would finish in half the time than they took on the same setup without this device!
That is, until someone tried running the tests while measuring time on an external clock. It turned out that the guy had discovered that effect when putting voltage on an input port of the CPU board, which he had no idea what it was for -- it was a flag telling the board's internal clock to run at half the normal frequency....
Probably had just found the 'Turbo button' connection on the mainboard, which confusingly, actually slowed down the clock speed, to enable certain older games to still be playable on new, faster computers, without needing superhuman reflexes and perception. I'm not sure that anyone but a gamer back then really understood what the 'Turbo button' did, or why as far as most other folk were concerned, it didn't work properly or appear to do anything. They were strange and exciting times.
Though English is a popular language used for scientific publications, English is not an yardstick for every innovation. English is not the only language in the world and the knowledge of English does in no way mean that one is intelligent. How many Singaporean language can you communicate in?? Mandarin? Cantonese? Tamil? Malay?
@@parasdeo313 You missed something here... I made this point not to degrade the guy, but to explain miscommunication.
@@amos083 " Barely speak English ...doesn't speak English....can't even speak English....you have a funny accent when you speak English !!" I have been hearing all my life and almost always with a derogatory undertone .
@parasdeo313 Sorry your speech has been criticized. The accents I find difficult to understand are from parts of Great Britain and the Deep South of the United States.
I wouldn't bet they are 100% honest. Too much money to "find" in the promise of free energy.
If they have no actual product, who would give them money?
Wouldn't they loose it all in 5 mins if it's fake?
(Doesn't mean it works, maybe they just really believe it)
@@foxtrotunit1269 Government grants.
@@foxtrotunit1269 Ask Elizabeth Holmes
@@foxtrotunit1269 they need to show progress from time to time to keep the investor's money flowing. and progress that indicates a major break through will get them even more investors.
@@tobiasweihmann3187 You are both right in some ways. I don't think anyone could do a business out of something that just provably doesnt work, but than again, the money ppl tend to be surprisingly studpid when it comes to basic stuff
I was at the original Pons & Fleischmann "cold fusion" announcement (the video of the announcement seems to have disappeared from the internet, so I don't have to tell you which one in the audience was me). None of the people in the first generation were scammers by any means. In the case of P&F, it was a combination of hubris, the unexpected difficulty of measuring accurately the heat output of their device, and their unfamiliarity with the techniques used to measure the high-energy radiation and neutrons that would have been produced by any fusion reaction. Under normal circumstances, the D+D reaction produces 3He and tritium in basically equal amounts. But in the case of "LENR," no neutrons were observed. In the end, they concluded that they were observing D+D -> 4He. The problem with *that* hypothesis (I mean besides the lack of any plausible explanation for how a chemical interaction can affect the branching ratio of a nuclear reaction) is that the excess energy in D+D -> 4He is given off as a gamma ray - and the gamma rays were not observed (at least not by anyone who knew how to measure gamma rays). So the "cold fusion" supporters had to invoke not one, but two miracles - that the branching ratio of the reaction was mysteriously affected by the Pd, and that despite the limitations that Special Relativity places on how fast the energy from the reaction could dissipate, all of the excess energy from the nuclear reaction magically went into phonons.
The other first generation CF / LENR researchers of whom I am aware were likewise not scammers, but like P&F had deluded themselves and were not competent to make the measurements they claimed to be making - some of the original reports of alleged helium detection by mass spectrometry were quite obviously ludicrous to anyone who knew anything about mass spectrometry.
At the time, P&F claimed that they had a prototype water heater based on "cold fusion." 35 years later, we're still waiting to see it.
As for the term "cold fusion," at the time of P&F's announcement, the term was already in use to describe an actual phenomenon that really occurs at room temperature, namely, muon-catalyzed fusion. The problem (still unsolved) is that the muons do not catalyze enough fusion reactions before they decay to compensate for the energy necessary to produce them.
Cold fusion truly is the ufo of physics world ( or chemistry?) and the pons and fleischmann the roswell event. Such an unfortunate name choice. No lenr researcher think there is actual fusion there.
@@A_QuiDeDroit I beleive that the LENR reaction is produced by huge magnetic fields produced by an Exciton-polariton condensate of 10^20 spin only particles that disturbs the quarks in matter. Also this condensate produces negative mass (DOI:10.1038/s41467-023-36618-6) via Dispersion which give this structure some unbelievable properties. We call this structure an exotic vacuum object (EVO)
The issue with the LENR reaction is that all the processes that occur inside the active agent is hidden from observation because the agent is a Exciton-polariton condensate that has negative mass (DOI:10.1038/s41467-023-36618-6). This negative mass domain wall keeps much of the reaction output inside the condensate until the condensate terminates. However photons from deep infrared up to soft x-rays do release.
@@janap128 There is no concrete scientific evidence that negative mass exists - and no, I don't consider the (very small) negative energy densities achievable via the Casimir effect to be a valid example of negative mass.
@@janap128 As long as you are aware that what you wrote makes no sense whatsoever, I'm fine with your explanation.
Nothing is more refreshing thn a cold bath, thank you Sabine. Seriously though, just going by a temperature a few degrees higher than expected and not even over a prolonged period is a bit thin to use as evidence of cold fusion.
Especially when its not that hard to look for the the products of fusion. Show me high-energy radiation or I'll be putting your "cold fusion" device on the already overburdened shelf of other overly complicated ways to oxidize hydrogen.
I was in general chemistry in college back when Pons and Fleischman announced their cold fusion results, and excess heat was what they pointed at as proof too.
So far I haven't seen anything that makes this claim look more believable than theirs was. I'll wait and see, but I'm not holding my breath.
As a chemist, I appreciated the last comment. Physicists tend to never even consider the option of talking to a chemist, and I'm pretty sure that if anyone mentioned "high temperature + Palladium + heat" to a chemist, they would never even think of nuclear fusion...
Yeah sure
Physicists think chemistry is easy and just the physics of the valence shell/rote learning.
For a Hydrogen-Hydrogen fusion it's actually really easy to find out if fusion took place.
Just measure the radioactivity, this reaction throws out neutrons.
Only Proton(Hydrogen)-Boron fusion doesn't make neutrons, every other plausible fusion makes neutrons.
And radioactivity is very easy to detect unlike any trace materials especially non reactive ones like Helium.
Lenr people never find radiation and always brush it off like their reaction doesn't need to obey the standard model
Does Deuterium to Helium 3 fusion not also generate no neutrons or do you refer to the fact that there is parasitic deuterium deuterium fusion going on?
"every other plausible fusion makes neutrons." How do you know that? Is any kind of perhaps possible cold fusion already discovered and well understood to exclude reaction chains without releasing neutrons completely?
Your argument is like "sheep's are always white because we never have seen other ones yet".
@@Bapate-rh9be That's exactly right. If there's a plausible way to ensure that the Deuterium doesn't come into contact with other Deuterium then we can talk about this as a second option but I can't even concieve any possible way this would work other than literally one atom at a time.
@@Merilix2 Since the binding energies of all isotopes of the light elements are well-known, it's quite easy to calculate which reaction will happen at which energies, and what it will produce.
I checked, a few groups are working on Low-Energy Nuclear Reactions (LENR) that are considered to be scientifically valid:
ARPA-E (Advanced Research Projects Agency-Energy): This U.S. government agency has funded several LENR projects, indicating a level of scientific credibility.
European Synchrotron Radiation Facility (ESRF): Researchers here study LENR using advanced techniques like palladium nanoparticles.
George Washington University: Researchers, including David Nagel, actively participate in LENR research and believe in its potential.
There are some genuine LENR research ongoing that has been done by reputable groups.
Just need a hot fusion reactor to supply enough electricity to split H2O's to make enough 99.9% pure H's for the cold fusion reactor warm up and some party balloons to recycle the excess helium.
fck me you just solved the whole fuel cycle in a one line yt comment xD
@@CraftyF0X PACK IT UP EVERYONE WERE DONE HERE
@@CraftyF0X ? you use energy to split water, then you get back much more energy, in principle, by fusing the H to He. This gadget probably doesn't work, without demonstrating He, but there is at least the possibility. [chemical bonds have much less energy than nuclear, hence gain].
@@richardnickerson4792 Yeah that's not that simple, protium fusion is even less likely than D T.
@@CraftyF0X or D-D. I wouldn't be surprised if some new efficient LENR fusion was invented, but the fusion of protons seems really unlikely to me. Cross sections of proton captures are realy very small, even for high energies.
This reminds me of the cold fusion claim in the 1990s where it almost certainly wasn't fusion, but there seemed to be a warming (reproducible by some but not all experiments) most likely caused by radioactive decay rather than fusion. They did this at room temperature too.
Radioactive decay of what.
They are not using radioactive material.
@@mtrest4 The other experiment used deuterium in place of light water, then the hydrogen was absorbed into the metal until saturation and some of the experiments measured an increase in heat. The consensus was that the exothermic reaction was from decay rather than fusion (which makes more sense), but the fact that it wasn't observed every time.
@@Aviator27J
oh ok.
I thought you were referring to this company's experiment.
If indeed large amounts of heat 🌡️ is being generated, it's worth tracking down its source.
Andrea Rossi e-cat has announced a similar device ... since 2012 ... but always failed to proof it worked.
Yeah, how I got into skepticism.
He also made a machine to turn trash into fuel. Some 5 other parties have tried for decades. Andrea Rossi was a scam artist and was clearly feeding power over the ground wire. Shameless
It worked... when he was allowed to wire it up, and no one was allowed to measure earth return current.... and so forth.
And the crazy thing is that he is still active and there are people still following him
I met him at MIT once.
Just wait and see: Leonardo Announces EV Demo for October (Updated)
I haven't studied these guys carefully but I know the field.
Obviously the way they know it's not mostly hydrogenation heat is they run the experiment much longer than it takes to fully load the metal matrix with hydrogen. Unless you believe in magical teleportation, there can't be significant hydrogenation heat.
These experiments routinely make orders of magnitude more energy than combustion with available chemicals, or hydrogenation energy, during their closed operation. You don't learn much glancing at the power meter for moment, any more than you can measure a car's MPG by noting that it's making 500 horsepower.
I am an Indian and I hate it when people like this crop up. We put in incredible amounts of effort to publish in good journals because we are constantly second guessed! And just as we become credible, another blow comes from quacks. Hate these guys with a passion.
Don't worry too much. You find similar people in western countries. It's all about money and reputation.
Those scam callers aren't exactly helping your reputation either.
There's more and more of these 'scientists' around these days. Not so much charlatans but willing to take dumb shorcuts , be loose and selective with data, not make cool headed second/triple checks..etc. In short just all round poor experimentalists.
@TheAleksander22 your lgbt is not helping either
@@ramunasstulga8264 What does lgbt have to do with Cold Fusion?
Thanks and an interesting way to decipher. Incidentally, we also measured helium and hence the conclusion that it’s a fusion. Happy to discuss further.
It's quite easy to measure the power generated : this is the 3457th publication on LENR. Giving an average of 4.5 man-month per paper. And giving an average of 80 W per scientist, this makes DW=3457x4.5x30x0.5x86400x80 = 1.5 TJ...
But how much energy to make that 80 W...
And remember, power does not always translate into work.
@@mal2ksc :-)
Dr. Randell Mills from ex-blacklightpower, now bright light power has been doing that from more than 20 years ago. He even sells the machines. It's not called cold fusiones, he said it's just a calalytic reaction that reduces hidrogen atoms to a lower energy state and he call the result "hydrinos". Chemistry of the byproducts is also very interesting. In the begginig he even gave samples worldwide to study.
The SunCell is a LENR system. The LENR reaction can produce a huge amount of light.
Ah yes I remember about this, then claimed that hydrinos could be "dark matter"
No way this works and he ain't billionaire, No?
it can also just be that there are two different exotherm reactions in the two chambers that are just purely chemical, and no fusion at all.
Ding Ding Ding... I think we have a winner here!
It's Finally completed: ua-cam.com/video/ULDI-8gIYPM/v-deo.html
@@osmosisjones4912 How is this relevant to my comment?
@@oysteinsoreide4323Spambots be aggressive
That must to me be what is happening. No way this is fusion.
Thanks for respectfully and professionally addressing their claims, I think there's something to be learned from those experiments even if they might not be exactly what they claim it to be.
Reminded me of a indian dude some years ago that also had a free energy engine that he started with hitting it with a hammer on a specific place.
All of these are the same.... a magic box that "works" but they always need some more money to improve it and no, you cant see the inside of the box, it works bro ! are you calling me a liar ?
Sabine is one of the best comedians on youtube. Kudos to her for managing to keep a straight face during this video, and for not coming down *too* hard on the "non-scammers"at Hylenr, lol.
they certainly do generate a lot of hot air
From checking the Wikipedia article on neutron generators (including the Neutristor), it sounds like this should not really be called cold fusion, because it depends upon high speed deuterium or tritium nuclei impacting on additional deuterium or tritium nuclei that are trapped in the target metal matrix. The overall temperature is not very high, but the equivalent temperature of the impacting ions is high enough to overcome the electrostatic repulsion of the nuclei. The system is not in thermal equilibrium.
I remember getting all excited about fusion energy systems in high school physics.
Our class will hold its 50th reunion next summer.
I don't have a lot of time left to waste on this one.
Lawrence Livermore Labs has had limited success with their fusion reactor. I wish America would stop subsidizing oil companies with billions of dollars every year and instead, put that money toward accelerating the development of fusion and increasing the use of solar, wind, hydro, geothermal, nuclear, etc.
Don't forget the Farnsworth fusor.
Room-temperature fusion is possible and easy; the problem is the amount of energy required exceeds any release from the fusion. This generates neutrons, which can be used to transmute other elements.
If their "cold fusion" device is fusing common hydrogen, it must be creating neutrons as well, and then assembling 2p2n to form He.
I have seen *many* of this type of conference before and I get the distinct impression that they know full well what is actually happening but they are choosing to present it as 'cold fusion' anyway. It's a so-called 'grift'. It's hard to quantify but everything, including the specific setup, they way they present it, and the interview is just 'right' for this type of deliberate misrepresentation and I have seen it many times. Usually the goal is to get some funding out of the whole thing.
I want to add that many, many times groups who do this will attempt to present it as legitimate reasearch/technology and very often there *will* be people on the team who are genuinely trying to achieve what the stated goal is, but there is likely to be this underlying feeling of something not being 'right' and that comes from the people in control knowing that the way they're choosing to go about it will not work and/or is not ethical. We saw this exact same thing play out with Theranos, for example. This is just on a smaller scale.
As a reader of LCD displays, I can confirm they are indeed displaying fusion is taking place behind the box.
🤣
Excellent presentation because anyone should be able to comprehend it. I learned for the first time about hydrogenation.
There's an old saying in Tennessee-I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee-that says, 'Fool me once, shame on...shame on you. Fool me-you can't get fooled again.'
sound like something from The Who - My Generation!
Always nice when you can't be sure if you understand the demo correctly, but are supposed to be impressed by it
This LCD number being larger than this other LCD number means you need to give me money. Lots of money.
@@MarkRozema-v9m You don't wanna be the guy who missed out because he didn't get the demo, do you?
Thank you for posting this. The methodology of getting "cold" fusion to work is easy to explain, and the requirement to add heat is a vital part of it. As you explained, hydrogenation must first occur. A metal crystal, palladium, or platinum, is filled up with hydrogen atoms. Then the metal is heated. As the crystal vibrates more and more as it is heated, it pushes out hydrogen. But that's at the edges. Inside, it also pushes hydrogen into itself, thus causing fusion. The problems of this method are numerous, including, Metal crystal posioning, where further fusion that produces higher elements disrupts the crystalicity of the metal. The symptom will be a marked drop-off of power producted over time. Another is the sheer volume needed to produce a lot of fusion, because that's limited by the physical volumetric limits of hydrogenation. A further problem could be a run-away reaction, where the fusion reaction heats the metal, heats the metal, heats the metal, until it melts or explodes. A further, and most likely, scenario is that the producers of the "cold" fusion device have no idea of what they're actually doing, and therefore, have no idea of what the crystals are doing. That is, they fail to know what the size, orientation, "graininess", imperfections, of the metal crystals. I believe that this last issue is the number one issue preventing "cold" fusion from being successful, as the experimenters tend to be chemists, not physicists. 'Nuff said.
The issue is always recuperation of heat. We need 1000-1200° C to generate at 60-70%. LENER does work but temperature, not to mention economic efficiency is too low. Note that hot fusion has the same heat recuperation problem, just in the other direction.
Fortunately there are applications where you don't want to recuperate the heat. That fusion device has been working fine since the 50's.
Btw. it's possible to capture the heat generated by a thermonuclear device, and there are ones over 95% fusion yield. The main disadvantage is the need for mass producing compact nukes, which is probably not the best idea.
Some small scale fusion or LENR devices seem to throw off beta particles and EM fields, as well as heat, which can be captured directly as electricity by today's switches. Not something they could imagine in the '50s.
It's *not-catalyzed* hydrogenation that requires high temperature. With palladium catalyst it can occur at room temperature, it's done all the time in organic chemistry. Although here we would mean the hydrogenation of some inorganic matter, which isn't really the main point if the Wiki article, I believe
Tepid fusion?
That explanation from that Indian smart
Scammer, i mean, scientist, was incredibly detailed, words from a genius.
There are careful researchers who have addressed many of the concerns here. Not sure about these guys specifically.... But a few things need to be carefully disentangled before looking at the LENR field.
First, the idea that whatever is happening is actually "fusion" as we understand it is seriously in question. Whatever's going on, it almost certainly produces no measurable radiation that can be detected outside the device, certainly not at the massive levels required for producing even 1 W of fusion power from (say) a DD reaction. (this is the "dead grad student" problem).
Second on chemical effects -- certain researchers in the field have attempted to carefully disentangle this. For instance, you can look at the amount of heat produced per H atom reactant, and sometimes (as with research done by the Clean Planet group in Japan) this can be keV's or even MeV's per H atom -- way above what's possible with chemistry.
These experiments aren't easy to do "right", and usually require skills and funds beyond the ambit of the typical "garage tinkerers" who are attracted to LENR... But if you read closely and study the work that's been done in the field, I think an intellectually honest scientist would admit that *something* interesting is going on.
See Sabine's article on storing energy as gaseous hydrogen as energy storage.
Even hot fusion has the problem that as the least massive atom in existence, a ton of hydrogen is damnably bulky. The Sun manages to hold it by gravity as individual protons, at densities unachievable without a star's gravity,
I have 2 points. 1. Simple hydrogen nucleus aka proton has extremely low chance to fuse with another proton. It has to release a neutrin which has a very low probability.
2. The 400 celsius grade tempreture means seriously oscillating palladium atoms. These can result collisions between protons what overpowers the coulomb barrier.
At 400 °C, there is not enough energy to result in fusion.
@@marioxerxescastelancastro8019 it is not enough everywhere in the crystal structure, but peaks can happen at some places.
Wait until you hear about Andrea Rossi's magical LENR machine...
I met him at MIT
I think she knows. She made a cold fusion video a few years ago, was pretty good.
A very measured and diplomatic reaction by Sabine ... impressively done!
You have to detect positron or gama rays or helium, yes.
By products, yes
4:44 -- Whenever someone recommends avoiding electrical discharges near some object, I know that this is a very interesting thing to do and definitely worth trying once. Kind of like those "no swimming" signs around the most favorite highly popular swimming holes. That's how you know that people LOVE doing something, when it has become a real problem for administrators. Thanks for the prohibitions, and you just hold on, I'll be right back!!
Okay sure once its peer reviewed I'll believe it.
His body language was not a confidence booster. 😅
Peer: Yes sir we can working for you, risault iz very gud.
@@buckyfanksyAt least they won’t blow up the world with it like white people would.
Once anyone else can do the same it is probably functioning.
Considering how much BS makes it through peer review that's probably not a good strategy either
Well. Thanks for the update Sabine. I’m really wondering what’s going on with the gov funded studies at several universities, good to see you again and really really appreciate the info, I’ve been in a bit of a Faraday cage recently so it’s great to get an update
wait a second, they measure the temperature of the material? so in fact they are not quantifying the actual energy released as radiation but only the energy stored by the probe in equilibrium
IMHO the small difference of temperature is explained by the fact that the no-hydrogen probe is a bit more electromagnetic emissive (infrared) - that could be shown with simple very cheap infrared sensors
Hydrogenation is a standard chemical process where, for instance, you change a double bond to a single bond in an organic compound: you add hydrogen to the double bond, so to speak. The process needs a catalyst, usually Pd supported on carbon powder. The reaction is usually carried out at room temperature, not at high temperature. Unless you use a high pressure device for difficult to react substrates. Maybe one of the cells they use is containing unsaturated "impurities"...
The so called excess heat seems to be well within the bounds of measurement error.
The LENR reaction requires negative mass. It has been recently discovered that negative mass is produced in exciton polariton". Under specific conditions, exciton polaritons (hybrid particles composed of light and excitons in a semiconductor) exhibit a dispersion curve that is inverted, effectively giving them a "negative mass" meaning they would accelerate in the opposite direction to a force applied to them, a concept considered unusual in classical physics; this can occur due to interactions with phonons within the material, leading to energy losses that alter the polariton behavior. The key feature is an inverted dispersion curve, where the energy of the polariton decreases with increasing momentum, unlike the typical positive slope seen in most particles. This phenomenon arises from strong coupling between light and excitons within an optical resonator, and can be influenced by factors like dissipative light-matter interactions and phonon scattering. This mechanism produces a negative vacuum imbalance condition similar to the casimir effect from which energy can be extracted. Studying negative mass exciton polaritons has lead to new insights into quantum phenomena and has opened avenues for developing novel devices based on their unique behavior. For example, Rossi has just developed a self charging electric car.
See here: ua-cam.com/video/cV_pznFR-P4/v-deo.html
Elizabeth Shue had the formula figured out in the late 90s.
Simply measuring the voltage and current fed into both systems on a constant basis, along with the temperature, would answer your question.
Create a meta-material of nickel, palladium and platinum such that the physical spaces in the material accentuate the probability of contact between hydrogen atoms.
Speaking as a chemist, hydrogenation *does not* occur with metals, it is a chemical reaction that normally occurs with organic compounds and it literally alters the chemical make-up of the organic compound (and does not alter any atomic structures like generating Helium), often adding hydrogen atoms to carbohydrate chains. A lot of industrial processes use hydrogenation but I sincerely doubt that is what is going on here. Palladium in that case is just a catalyst, usually needs to be extremely finely divided (usually this is done with palladium-on-carbon), and the metal serves to bond the hydrogen and break H2 into atomic hydrogen. I don't think hydrogenation is the cause of the heat here, unless they have a large amount of organic material in their vessel, but I don't know what would generate it instead, off the top of my head.
Pons and Fleischman.
Cold fusion some time ago, but people were unable to duplicate.
I saw a book discussing low temperature fusion. Apparently there's something called muon catalyzed fusion, but muon generators were prohibitively expensive.
A probable source of excess heat is chemical reaction or physical phenomena.
Hydrogen reportedly gets hotter when you reduce pressure. Joule Thompson coefficient is a search term for those who are interested. This property, coupled with flammability, is one of the problems with hydrogen as a motor fuel.
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For some reason, I always thought it was gluons that did something to create excess energy in hot fusion. It's like all the quarks lost their brains and recombined in such a way that any excess mass is ejected at high velocity or converted directly to photons.
Now it's like, well, why should any energy be released, ever, if certain nuclei can spontaneously fuse after enough hydrogenation and chuck out slow moving neutrons, so that no one hardly notices?
So why does it take a lot of energy to create a lot of energy?
What does the Feynman diagram / quantum interaction puzzle actually show differently with the high kinetic energy of superhot plasma/nuclei that is different, than when they're all coherently racing around the LHC at near light speed, and presumably also with very high kinetic energy, and smashing into each other?
You'd think a fundamental and useful prediction for any quantum theory would be to predict the temperature and/or conditions at which various nuclei fuse.
Independent Testing and review would be nice.
A simple way to see if the hydrogen is all converted is to feed the resultant gas into a fuel cell. The reactions in the fuel cell will stop in the presence of helium . Starting from a cold state will show difference in quantity as it starts converting.
When I was at MIT in the late 80s we did several larger scale COLD FUSION tests along the lines of what P&F claimed and we did measure excess heat....afterwards the lab and work was shut down and the prof was told that he would never get any funding if he continued with this work.... Eugene Maloff continued to push this topic until he met his "untimely" death in 2004 under strange circumstances....
That's true. Might not be connected. What is certainly true is that the Plasma Physics lab was told their funding was canceled until they figured out whether P&F was fake. They managed to publish their Failure to Replicate the P&F experiment in less time than the >500 hours the experiment took.
It's not nice to tell scientists their livelihood depends on proving other scientists in a different field wrong, and allowing them to be sloppy and dishonest. MIT researchers also manipulated their data to make the observed excess heat go away, just assuming it couldn't be there, which is what got Maloff so upset.
A few years ago NASA published some research about "lattice confined fusion". If I remember correctly, it was inducing deuterium fusion in a lattice with high energy photons (like X rays and maybe gamma rays).
It works, too. Useless as a power source, and not actually cold fusion, but I believe it has some niche applications in materials science. It's a handy way to generate neutrons in the lab without needing to deal with dangerous and heavily-regulated isotopes or really huge particle accelerators.
LMAO - what nonsense; glad you get to evaluate this laughable and totally false claim about any real measurable energy from fusion. By the way, Pb absorbs hydrogen much better at higher temperature. Measuring neutrons or gamma rays is trivial and extremely inexpensive compared to most high end equipment. Such devices are easy to obtain under $2000. Sorry, they are intentionally lying - they could easily measure neutrons or gamma's if they produced any significantly measurable fusion caused heat..
Depending on what they are fusing, but you're right that a simple gamma ray detector would cover all fusion reactions. p-B reactions don't produce neutrons, so a neutron detector, by itself, wouldn't confirm that reaction. As far as Helium production, I figure a mass-spec would do the trick (and they really aren't as expensive as they used to be 30 years ago - even the TMPs, the most expensive part are a fraction of the price they were when I was using them), and with such a portable setup, it's not like they can't drag it to a University somewhere. They have portable mass-specs now that one can rent and setup fairly quickly (at least in the USA).
Good job on the explanation part. Thanks!
At least the phone scammers are getting more sophisticated in their technique. 🤷♂️
It's possible to fuse elements at room temperature with minimal basic materials that can fit inside a very small container... like a soda can. Too many people are trying to bash the elements together when it's much easier to... twist them together.
There are a number of fusion devices that work very well indeed. They generate heat as well. But the electricity going in is much more than the useful energy coming out. We also did this 'cold fusion' thing back in 1989 - if you put Hydrogen into a receptacle with a Palladium catalyst and there happens to be some trace Oxygen, it burns. Generating heat - no fusion required.
I've seen several reports of devices that produce a little excess energy. Unfortunately, even if they work, these gizmos are not going to revolutionize large-scale energy production, for two reasons. The first is physical: small temperature differences lead to small thermodynamic efficiencies. This is why real power plants run very hot. The second and more important is financial: you need a massively high output to generate the income required to service the loan on the plant you are building. As my thesis advisor Fast Eli once said, there is no market for warmth.
I would bet my house that they've got it wrong. I would also advise everyone I know to do the same.
I follow you. I am also ready to bet your house that they are wrong.
So can I have your house if they're right? Thanks
I love betting my house on a whole bunch of things on the internet. Easy money!
@@noob19087 Yeah, but what are you gonna put up to cover your side of the bet?
@@noob19087thats not how a bet works.
They could also demonstrate that fusion was truly happening via a neutron detector such as a bubble tube. Seems like this would be a cost-effective and fast way to prove one way or another.
Now give us billions in funding
Solid State Fusion or LENR researchers aren't asking for billions. But their pseudo-skeptical detractors are! It's pretty threatening to the Govt Boondoggle Fusion Researchers to learn that LENR devices are clearly engineering-net-positive (sometimes). Note the infamous NIF result is >3 orders of magnitude below engineering (wall-plug) net positive. LENR researchers would be happy with 1% of the funding lavished on the Ballistic Mechanics theorists trying to build the Sun on Earth without enough Gravity. NASA proved that Metal hydrides give you your first 11 million degrees for free because protons/duterons/tritons are so much closer together than in a gas, plasma or H2, D2 or T2 molecule. See "IEEE Spectrum: NASAs shortcut to Fusion". There are lots of things engineers can see that mathematicians can't.
Materials are way too complicated for people limited to plasma physics. Coherence. Quasi-particles. Nanotech. Piezoelectric effects. Phonon interactions. They have a lamplight bias.. if you can't do the math it must not exist. Feynman warned us "There's lots of room at the bottom!"
As someone that got their Nuclear Engineering degree when Ponds and Fleishman were saying they did it and having professors that were involved in Manhattan and other projects (like NERVA) and hearing them call into question cold fusion through use of Palladium or some other material, I don't see it.
The only cold fusion I've ever seen work, and it took too much input for the creation of muons and getting the pressure just right in the container, was muonic replacement cold fusion. Muonic replacement works, but it sucks up more energy than it makes.
No way we have seen this in the 90s
SOmeones about to get a bag over the head and a lab turned into a crater
YES I remember that.
@@1320crusierno they arnt because this is phony
No, that was different, and actually the 80s. There was a bit more supporting evidence that neutron emissions were coming from those experiments with heavy water, but turned out to be a bit more nuanced than a nuclear fusion which could be harnessed.
Water does weird things under dielectric breakdown and heavy water even more so.
These things exist in a curiously simultaneous state of being well known and under-studied. Everyone in the field has heard about it but few follow up with their own experiments into the phenomena outside of people ill equipped to do much more than videotape themselves making funky arcs in water.
Basically, a complicated way of saying "no, boomer."
@@Hylianmonkeys Its from a movie.. jfc.
Excellent explanation, Sabine. Thank you.
I went through all this before with Andrea Rossi's claims. He certainly was a scammer!
Agree.
It's interesting to note that when wool gets wet it's gets hot. In some few cases it even catches fire.
how many times have we heard this before wise up people⚛
I think you were very gentle on these guys, which is a nice gesture of course. But after listening to their claims I would have personally chosen a much blunt assessment.
Let's see....
Contamination? Saturate the Pd with H2 at high T. Repeat the fusion attempt with the treated Pd. If no heat is released when using the treated metal, that supports the idea that their Pd was contaminated with something that was being hydrogenated in the original trial.
Before watching: the thumbnail gives me little hope of authentic success.
Yeah, me too
But it runs in titanicium.
Indians on UA-cam are very good at demonstrating perpetual motion!
If that little thing generating power by fusion I wouldn't want to be standing anywhere near it. "Neutrons ain't your friends".
Some claim it's fused into the nickel and becomes copper... No helium/alpha particle production.
@@3zdayz Nonetheless it takes some guts to be standing over a reactor at crotch height doing an unknown fusion reaction. Channelling Marie Curie? Rather undermines confidence that he actually believes in it.
Excellent explanation...thanks!
Given that this comes out of India (again) safe to assume this is just another "Free energy" 'pseudo scam.
Just like the numbers zero and pi?
Aha. I call you from Vindoes support centre. We haf log that your computa hass fusion.
I remember being fooled by cold fusion hype in the 1980s. Not gonna fall for that again.
I was fooled too, but at least the rabbit holes I went down lead me to a better understanding of catalysis and adsorption.
Depending on the amount of helium generated it could be possible to connect the gas stream to a mass spectrometer and measure the quantity of He.
It's always good to be skeptical, but at the same time I wouldn't be surprised. After Pons and Flieschman got shot down with everyone saying CF was impossible, you had to hunt to discover several governments were quietly investigating it and finding tantalizing hints it was real. India would be a good spot to work on it as well since the country is not in thrall to Big Oil either and CF reactors would be a godsend to a still-mostly undeveloped country. Cold Fusion might be finally heating up...
Sounds a lot like LENR which a number of startups have been trying for years. Putting powder metals in a chamber with a gas to produce heat to heat water for steam..... etc.
Indian Company. Didn’t need to hear anything after that
wow, that was an awesome explanation.
Sabine is freaking brilliant as usual.
I like this channel. Will watch more. I am a CTA in training and finished my first year.This channel helps me that the knowledge I gained is actually useful in really many ways. I undestood what you were talking about which feels really rewarding that hard work CAN pay off well (and paying 5000€ just to attend the school)
It might be interesting to see some longer term saturation testing of the supposed device to see if it's regular level hydrogenation. However that process may be part of one form of cold fusion, basically the atoms squash together if they happen to jam into a hole in some molecular sieve. Some catalyst materials may have the right properties to do that as well. However it also seems like there's a very small margin in heat gained (would it be enough vs. efficiency loses of anything converting that heat to a more usable form of energy?), so it might not have too many obvious uses.
They did this before. I was in my twenties and they missed a 50Hz component from a nearby fridge (so I remember😊) that got in the experiment. Everybody was excited, for a while.
I am surprised that Sabine did not mention the incredibly small cross section for H-H fusion. Apparently in the centre of the sun a single proton has to wait an average of 2 billion years before fusing with another proton.
Another cold fusion device that (reportedly) does work is called a fusor. The device is allegedly used as a source of neutrons. No, it's not net positive, but if you're willing to risk trouble with the NRC and making your cells radioactive, you can build one.
There is something on YT called "Star ⭐ in a bottle" where a guy builds a fusor.
The temperature 🌡️ a the center of the bottle is hotter 🔥 than the surface of the sun 🌞.
When the original 'cold fusion' claims were made ~ 30 years ago, researchers at Argonne Labs commented that the evolution of a bit of heat under described conditions was real/normal,
(but would not do anything significant).
They say they got it peer reviewed by the scientists at top institutes in india. They were also guided by a french American professor.
I really like the idea of a well hydrogenated material lattice where electrons are part of a cloud making it possible for the hydrogen proton to tunnel into the core of a heavier element and fuse to release energy. It is a win win situation for the atoms...
Actually, in the biomedical field, we have a process called the helium leak test that measures if helium is leaking out of a hermetic can. The same process would work for this case... though I'm a bit sceptical about this process.
at 22Mevs per He atom...the amt of He at 50W power would be minuscule..however they have detected He3... and HeH+. has shown up in related tests