Hoffman is such an awesome character. He's the bad guy that is so badass that you enjoy seeing him do his thing even if its evil. Costas acts the character perfectly.
Brother & sister fighting for daddy approval & the funniest part is we already know the results. Psychotic impulsive self harming daughter. Psychopathic Narcisstic son who will kill anyone who gets in his way including his makeshift family.
That’s what I want to see as well. I doubt that’ll be the case I’m sure another prequel but would like to see a follow up after saw 7 because to me that wasn’t really a good ending for the saw franchise. Left more questions than answers.
I didn’t know Hoffman was so controversial. I thought dude was one of the most loved characters of the series (he definitely is for me), but apparently there’s a group that hardcore hates on him
We love Costas! I wonder if he or the writers have had any ideas for new elements to bring to his character after all this time! Maybe flesh out his back story a bit if there is a chance? Would love to see it!
Hi Adam and Zoe, i just discovered your channel 🎉 Hoffman is my favorite character in the series and i want to see exactly what Costas wants!! I'm still shocked that 15 years after saw VII, we might be getting our proper sequel 😭 it's almost too good to be true
I attended the event in Manchester and wanted to share an intriguing detail from the Q&A session. During the discussion, he mentioned an unconventional method to escape the bathroom: using Adam's key, the one that had been drained. While it may seem unlikely, there's a slim possibility that it could have become lodged somewhere in the pipe, and with some effort, he might have retrieved it.
I called it but casual Saw fans were telling me "no, Hoffman is dead".... Did these people skip over the first 6 movies? The Saw producers of Saw 2004 were saying Dr. Gordon was dead and kept up with that facade for over half a decade. They literally said "how can he survive after sawing his leg off?" Hoffman has shown he has the will to live which is what John believes is the most important human element of all. Hoffman has 3 days until he dies of dehydration to figure out how to escape the bathroom. That's plenty of time considering he did not have a lot of time to escape a chair he was bound to and escape the reverse bear trap in Saw VI. Hoffman will survive the bathroom.
Just a quick example of how kind Costas Mandylor is, in many photos and interviews he is wearing a crucifix,which one of his fans has given him. You can find the footage of the gift being handed to him on UA-cam, He is just adorable.
Here’s two no win choices 1. if Hoffman escapes the bathroom… then Dr. Gordon character is a fucking idiot. And you don’t want that for your next film 2. If he dies, then you lose Costas So the film makers have to make that tough call
Costas was at a horror con in Manchester which is where the interview was from last week , I met him there , what a lovely friendly man . Me and my son had a pic with h him . Worth meeting . Hope I can still watch him playing Hoffman knowing he’s lovely on real life 🤣. Looks even hotter in real life.
The Mandylorian is back. Saw X made more money than Jigsaw and even the original film. Based on the rumors of two more films… it may only be a matter of time before they’re greenlit. Took three tries, but it looks like Saw is back for a while.
I saw a lot of films with him, it will be nice to see video from you about it. Sometimes the only one good thing in these movies was his character 😆 But.. I had fun watching. He's awesome. I'm so curious about this magical way to get out😂 Cheers to all fans of mustache!
i was there an spoke to him , he said hes excited to return , also i have a video of his q and a an how he escapes the bathroom is linked to adams key going down the drain !
I love this new direction of prequel/midquel/standalone format. Saw X could've been 100% standalone. Any brand new viewer could've jumped in and not need to see the other films.
I live in the UK, I was heartbroken to know he was over here 😭😭 it was announced only a week before! Way to short notice for me to go 😭 I love him so much and he seems like such a great guy and I only here good things when fans meet him! Next time I’m there ! Haha This interview is soooooo exciting though! Everything he said had me bouncing with excitement 😂 he needs to come back for 11 and then get out and go for Gordon in 12! Sounds so likely that this is what the producers will do! And so many fans want Hoffman to escape! It’s a great time to be a Saw fan ❤ I can’t wait for them to announce XI!!
But then who wins this standoff? xD Both have equally loyal groups of fans who'd want their favorite to win (I'm team Hoffman) I just hope if that ever does happen it doesn't all end with yet again another apprentice coming out of the woodwork.
Can’t wait for saw 11 and see Hoffman again and In his prime. Love your UA-cam channel and videos. I am a huge saw fan. What’s your favorite saw movie? Would love to talk more about saw.
We need a petition to have a mustache Hoffman in Saw 11, since we got goatee John in the past🤣 but I’m looking forward to Saw 11. I would personally like to see a flash-forward at the end of Saw 11 leading into Saw 3D showing Hoffman escaping the bathroom trap if things are going this direction!
@@moverton500 lol it wouldn’t make sense since he’s introduced to the case in saw 4 and saw 4 takes place literally right before saw 5, if anything they can do another movie that takes place between saw 2-3 since 3 takes place 6 months after saw 2 ends
@@robbertag808 Yes of course. But let's be honest it's the 10th saw movie. They let John kramer die way too early. You can't to anything with tobin bell anymore. It's only gonna be the "flashbacks" again. I love John Kramer but I think it's hard to get even more good stories out of that.
@@midjourney-freak01Nah they'll prolly put him in one or two more Films as long as keeps living. One film with the John Amanda & Mark dynamics. Followed by some character development for Logan & Dr. Gordon. Dr. Gordon has good potential. Logan is trash. Dude didn't even beat his game he just got lucky & the other characters were complete idiots.
We love Hoffy and i want to see Saw XI be a John and Hoffman haha movie less goo. Unsure how they can do a Hoffman vs Gordon like are they kiddnapping eachother ?> aha
My biggest fear is that if he really is not dead and got out of the bathroom, they are going to kill him again, this time for real and onscreen. 😕 After all, the only apprentice who is alive is Lawrence, and as unhinged as Hoffman is, I don't think they would let him stay alive and continue the legacy or escape and start another life somewhere else, even if he kills Lawrence and remains the last man standing. God, I hope I am wrong, so much, but I don't trust writers and producers to make his arc end on a positive note.
Hoffman is a very close 2nd favorite character but he kinda killed John so I think there's going to be retribution in the end. I think he'll die to some type of throat slice since Hoffman is a very cut throat character & that's how John dies it. It just makes since. It'll have to be special tho this man showed the ultimate will to live & escaped an unwinnable trap.
Thinking about all the factors, the writers are in a tough spot with who to make the next Jigsaw. They have so many choices but for different reasons, none of them work! Let's go over everything - THE Jigaw, John Karmer, is dead - Hoffman was killed (or planned to be) by Jigsaw himself, cutting him out of the group - Dr Gordon cannot be chosen because the actor basically hates the franchise - The Spiral guy, whatever his name is, has no allegiance to the Jigsaw cult/mindset, and is a lone wolf who just wanted revenge - Logan is a bland, plain piece of toast that literally nobody likes I think they can tread water with Hoffman's character for a couple movies, but to move forward they need to introduce a new Jigsaw. Personally, I think they should do the secret twin brother twist and have Tobin Bell continue the role as long as he is able to
I think bringing Hoffman back in a Saw 3D sequel would be silly because it would completely undermine the ending of Saw 3D. Saw 3D wrapped up the Saw 4-7 storyline and it was already too convoluted. Just adding more stuff to it would be silly. Like remember how silly Star Wars got when they decided to resurrect the Emperor? Of cores, I would love to see Hoffman again. But I think it should be done as a follow up to Saw X, expanding on his relationship with Amanda. But trying to drag on the Saw 3D story would be ridiculous in my opinion.
@@lorenzo_smit It was. Lionsgate forced two films to become one. The result was primarly what they had in mind for the 7th film, with elements of their intended 8th film used, such as the Gordon scenes. That means we could see those unused concepts in a follow-up film.
The rumor is that the filmmakers want to do a Saw 7 follow-up to “close out Hoffman’s arc.” That likely means he still will die, just not by being trapped in the infamous bathroom. He was not mentioned in Jigsaw, so that probably means he died prior to that film’s events. A follow-up to Saw 7 can work, what we already have can make it work. It’s not exactly a resurrection, since we weren’t actually shown him dying in Saw 7, nor where we shown a corpse like with Adam (and later a flashback showing how he died).
@@darthmeticulous6901 I feel I'm probably the only person who wants a saw 7 follow up to happen so we can see what became of Bobby Dagen after Joyce's death like poor guy lost everything I Honestly would like to see what became of the character after the events of 7.
Smh.... Let's ruin a franchise and take away what Saw is all about by bringing back a character that doesn't follow what Jigsaw started and just have a Michael Myers who is an over powered human being 🤦
He never really brought into it. That's what interesting about him he has his only philosophies. Like he'll kill if he necessary & he won't hesitate to save himself at any cost. Amanda became more likeable after Saw X ngl before that she was just self harming drug addict with daddy issues & temper tantrums. Logan was just bland & he did nothing to deserve being an apprentice. Dr. Gordon lowkey a good twist apprentice but he needs hella development.
That's what makes Hoffman my favorite the whole apprentice having empathy for people who do bad things is boring Hoffman being a guy who was basically forced to do John's work turns the games how he wants makes him an interesting character
@@Kortifex that's what makes a horrible movie. Nothing fun about a character that just goes around murdering people. The whole premise of saw is about teaching people to value their lives. That is saw!!! You take that away there is no Saw franchise!
@deanmillman6346 granted he does murder people from time to time but that's because he's a respected cop if he wasn't he would actually give everyone a chance he has winnable traps but most were unwinnable because of the people that were after him and his sisters killer which was understandable
@@Kortifex again it's not saw if you get rid of the whole premise of what Saw is about. That's what Hoffman fans don't understand. They just want an overpowered bad ass that is just lucky every single time. This isn't a Michael Myers movie.
As much as I love the Hoffman character, the Costas bubble burst for me when he commented "Fuck how you feel nose job" under a reel by Ana Kasparian about the separation of church and state. I just found that so off-putting. Be your position be what it is, but this comment was just in such poor taste to "address" her like that.
Hoffman is such an awesome character. He's the bad guy that is so badass that you enjoy seeing him do his thing even if its evil. Costas acts the character perfectly.
Jigsaw, Amanda and Hoffman together for a whole movie would be epic
Oh god, the bickering between Amanda and Hoffman would be hilarious.
Fingers crossed this is what we’re getting in saw 11 🤞
Brother & sister fighting for daddy approval & the funniest part is we already know the results. Psychotic impulsive self harming daughter. Psychopathic Narcisstic son who will kill anyone who gets in his way including his makeshift family.
Indeed , would love to see that.
Incredible Trio ❤
@AyKrax gay son vs thot daughter horror edition
I hope Hoffman returns in saw 11 Hoffman Vs Dr Gordon this would be excellent
That be SAW XII.
SAW XI will be between 2&3
That’s the rumours anyways.
That’s what I want to see as well. I doubt that’ll be the case I’m sure another prequel but would like to see a follow up after saw 7 because to me that wasn’t really a good ending for the saw franchise. Left more questions than answers.
I didn’t know Hoffman was so controversial. I thought dude was one of the most loved characters of the series (he definitely is for me), but apparently there’s a group that hardcore hates on him
Even more unusual is the subgroup that thirsts after Hoffman...it makes me uncomfortable. You all know he's a monster, right?
@@hearmymotoredheart You know it's a film, right? It's not real.
@@robbertag808party pooper
ikr me2
@@hearmymotoredheartit’s not that deep
We love Costas! I wonder if he or the writers have had any ideas for new elements to bring to his character after all this time! Maybe flesh out his back story a bit if there is a chance? Would love to see it!
Dude really finished filming Saw 3D and immediately started planning how he was getting out of that bathroom - Love that! Amazing video as always :)
Goatman Needs to come back in saw 11
🐐🐐🐐
I hope we get a sequel to Saw 3D
No rush for that. Tobin is getting old. We need prequels with Jigsaw in it before Tobin retires from acting
@@bc5163 We need more, John Kramer movies before Tobin. Bell retired from life.
Technically jigsaw is a sequel to saw 7 lol
Probably Saw XII
He seems like such a bro for the fans same when he like winked at the dude asking if he was in Saw X
Absolutely!!
Hi Adam and Zoe, i just discovered your channel 🎉 Hoffman is my favorite character in the series and i want to see exactly what Costas wants!! I'm still shocked that 15 years after saw VII, we might be getting our proper sequel 😭 it's almost too good to be true
We are beyond excited for Saw 11 this year!!
And more Hoffman is going to be amazing!!
Thanks for watching! 😍😍❤️
I met Costas last weekend at Manchester Horror Con. Such a nice guy
I attended the event in Manchester and wanted to share an intriguing detail from the Q&A session. During the discussion, he mentioned an unconventional method to escape the bathroom: using Adam's key, the one that had been drained.
While it may seem unlikely, there's a slim possibility that it could have become lodged somewhere in the pipe, and with some effort, he might have retrieved it.
How the f is this man reaching down that tiny drain?
@@TKize777 not that hard to think of a few ideas.. and there should be a few new items laying around.
@@TKize777he broke his hand once, he could do it again
@vvvnokk8309 Look I want the Hoffmeister to live too but like how can you grab with a broken hand
@@TKize777it's Hoffman, he'll figure it out xD
Hoffman is a menace man he's smart and he can pick locks
I called it but casual Saw fans were telling me "no, Hoffman is dead".... Did these people skip over the first 6 movies? The Saw producers of Saw 2004 were saying Dr. Gordon was dead and kept up with that facade for over half a decade. They literally said "how can he survive after sawing his leg off?" Hoffman has shown he has the will to live which is what John believes is the most important human element of all. Hoffman has 3 days until he dies of dehydration to figure out how to escape the bathroom. That's plenty of time considering he did not have a lot of time to escape a chair he was bound to and escape the reverse bear trap in Saw VI. Hoffman will survive the bathroom.
Just a quick example of how kind Costas Mandylor is, in many photos and interviews he is wearing a crucifix,which one of his fans has given him. You can find the footage of the gift being handed to him on UA-cam, He is just adorable.
Saw 6 my favorite sequel and it’s because of Hoffman 🔥🔥🔥🔥
Here’s two no win choices
1. if Hoffman escapes the bathroom… then Dr. Gordon character is a fucking idiot. And you don’t want that for your next film
2. If he dies, then you lose Costas
So the film makers have to make that tough call
Unless someone helps Hoffman escape, which Gordon didn’t have known. But that may be to convoluted
Costas was at a horror con in Manchester which is where the interview was from last week , I met him there , what a lovely friendly man . Me and my son had a pic with h him . Worth meeting . Hope I can still watch him playing Hoffman knowing he’s lovely on real life 🤣. Looks even hotter in real life.
We are very jealous!! 😍
Can I just say I'm a new subscriber but I love all your Saw videos !
😍😍 Welcome aboard!!
Mark Hoffman is my favorite, he is the best!:D
The Mandylorian is back. Saw X made more money than Jigsaw and even the original film. Based on the rumors of two more films… it may only be a matter of time before they’re greenlit. Took three tries, but it looks like Saw is back for a while.
I saw a lot of films with him, it will be nice to see video from you about it. Sometimes the only one good thing in these movies was his character 😆 But.. I had fun watching.
He's awesome. I'm so curious about this magical way to get out😂
Cheers to all fans of mustache!
#sawstache! 🥳
Wohoooo!!! Hoffmann is back
😍😍😍
i was there an spoke to him , he said hes excited to return , also i have a video of his q and a an how he escapes the bathroom is linked to adams key going down the drain !
We’re so jealous! Hopefully we’ll meet him one day!
@@HorrorSauce are you going to go through all the deleted scenes ? some interesting stuff on amandas backstory
I love this new direction of prequel/midquel/standalone format. Saw X could've been 100% standalone. Any brand new viewer could've jumped in and not need to see the other films.
We need to see Hoffman set up a trap to get Cecilia
He wouldn't go easy on her, that's for damn sure.
I live in the UK, I was heartbroken to know he was over here 😭😭 it was announced only a week before! Way to short notice for me to go 😭 I love him so much and he seems like such a great guy and I only here good things when fans meet him! Next time I’m there ! Haha
This interview is soooooo exciting though! Everything he said had me bouncing with excitement 😂 he needs to come back for 11 and then get out and go for Gordon in 12! Sounds so likely that this is what the producers will do! And so many fans want Hoffman to escape! It’s a great time to be a Saw fan ❤ I can’t wait for them to announce XI!!
But then who wins this standoff? xD Both have equally loyal groups of fans who'd want their favorite to win (I'm team Hoffman) I just hope if that ever does happen it doesn't all end with yet again another apprentice coming out of the woodwork.
I like Hoffman he is one of my favourites i even have him as my UA-cam profile
He is our favourite!! 😍
Yeah same
I always imagined Eleanor letting him out of the bathroom because she's an obsessed Jigsaw fan and would probably figure out where it is.
Love your channel , huge saw fan . Loved saw x in my top 3 with saw 6 and saw
Thank you so much! ❤️😍😍
I remember Costas being in a Charmed Tv Show Episode as A Ghost.
Thanks for your content, please continue, you are very good
Thank you Simon! 😍😍
Can’t wait for saw 11 and see Hoffman again and In his prime. Love your UA-cam channel and videos. I am a huge saw fan. What’s your favorite saw movie? Would love to talk more about saw.
Hoffman 4 life
They'll probably make another prequel that's between Saw 2 and 3 with John and Hoffman.
Doesn't Saw 2 and 3 take place at the same time?
@@Purplinesskynah that's 3 & 4.
I wanna see John, Amanda, & Mark working together.
@@AyKrax Ah okay my bad :)
The best apprentice needs to return
The best! 😍
We need a petition to have a mustache Hoffman in Saw 11, since we got goatee John in the past🤣 but I’m looking forward to Saw 11. I would personally like to see a flash-forward at the end of Saw 11 leading into Saw 3D showing Hoffman escaping the bathroom trap if things are going this direction!
Yes! Would love to see those two hanging out with their legendary facial hair!
Goatee John was a villian. Same vibes as bald ponytail Zuko.
We need stuff between Cecil Adams and Seth Baxters deaths and we need more between 1&2 and between 2&3 style movies.
since it is a prequel to saw V, it would be cool to see Scott Patterson to return.
But that seems unlikely.
Isn’t saw 4 the prequel to saw 5? Lol it literally takes place immediately after 4
@@dayburks He died in saw V, since the new movies take place before saw V than Scott Patterson's character would still be alive.
@@moverton500 lol it wouldn’t make sense since he’s introduced to the case in saw 4 and saw 4 takes place literally right before saw 5, if anything they can do another movie that takes place between saw 2-3 since 3 takes place 6 months after saw 2 ends
@dayburks that's why I said it seems "unlikely," that special agent Strahm will return.
@@moverton500 I do wish he had more screen time, most determined willed character in the series, I would argue that Eric was 2nd
Either Hoffman waited out for Dr Gordon to come back and escapes or he escaped his shackle in a unique way.
He said things like "I think" and "hopefully" but you guys are taking it as absolute truth...Lot of speculation here.
Cant wait for the next one . I hate it kinda took yrs as everyone looks older but oh well. It’s all good .
That was in Manchester I was there. Still England Yh lol. I hope Gordon wins tbh.
Saw 11? Oh my god. Just imagine. I thought X was gonna be the last one
Why would anyone think that? It made bank at the box office.
@@robbertag808 Yes of course. But let's be honest it's the 10th saw movie. They let John kramer die way too early. You can't to anything with tobin bell anymore. It's only gonna be the "flashbacks" again. I love John Kramer but I think it's hard to get even more good stories out of that.
@@midjourney-freak01Nah they'll prolly put him in one or two more Films as long as keeps living. One film with the John Amanda & Mark dynamics. Followed by some character development for Logan & Dr. Gordon. Dr. Gordon has good potential. Logan is trash. Dude didn't even beat his game he just got lucky & the other characters were complete idiots.
We love Hoffy and i want to see Saw XI be a John and Hoffman haha movie less goo.
Unsure how they can do a Hoffman vs Gordon like are they kiddnapping eachother ?> aha
He would know about the key that went down the drain when Adam woke up at the start of saw if you watch the end of saw John says that at the end
It’ll be interesting to see if they go this route!
I was actually at that con and I met him
*sees hoffman*
Instant goat noises
Key that fell in the drain from the first film??? 👀
Yep. In theory it would be stuck in the waste/u-bend so totally doable.
I honestly think that mark planted something in that bathroom and they might show us that at the end of saw XI
Hoffman should have been the successor of jigsaw.
My biggest fear is that if he really is not dead and got out of the bathroom, they are going to kill him again, this time for real and onscreen. 😕 After all, the only apprentice who is alive is Lawrence, and as unhinged as Hoffman is, I don't think they would let him stay alive and continue the legacy or escape and start another life somewhere else, even if he kills Lawrence and remains the last man standing. God, I hope I am wrong, so much, but I don't trust writers and producers to make his arc end on a positive note.
Hoffman is a very close 2nd favorite character but he kinda killed John so I think there's going to be retribution in the end. I think he'll die to some type of throat slice since Hoffman is a very cut throat character & that's how John dies it. It just makes since. It'll have to be special tho this man showed the ultimate will to live & escaped an unwinnable trap.
Thinking about all the factors, the writers are in a tough spot with who to make the next Jigsaw. They have so many choices but for different reasons, none of them work!
Let's go over everything
- THE Jigaw, John Karmer, is dead
- Hoffman was killed (or planned to be) by Jigsaw himself, cutting him out of the group
- Dr Gordon cannot be chosen because the actor basically hates the franchise
- The Spiral guy, whatever his name is, has no allegiance to the Jigsaw cult/mindset, and is a lone wolf who just wanted revenge
- Logan is a bland, plain piece of toast that literally nobody likes
I think they can tread water with Hoffman's character for a couple movies, but to move forward they need to introduce a new Jigsaw. Personally, I think they should do the secret twin brother twist and have Tobin Bell continue the role as long as he is able to
yay :D
He can't be dead cuz like john kramer said
'' *You're The Last Man Standing* ''
I think bringing Hoffman back in a Saw 3D sequel would be silly because it would completely undermine the ending of Saw 3D. Saw 3D wrapped up the Saw 4-7 storyline and it was already too convoluted. Just adding more stuff to it would be silly. Like remember how silly Star Wars got when they decided to resurrect the Emperor?
Of cores, I would love to see Hoffman again. But I think it should be done as a follow up to Saw X, expanding on his relationship with Amanda. But trying to drag on the Saw 3D story would be ridiculous in my opinion.
Look man the Saw 7 ending was undermined the second it was the Sawv7 ending.
Saw 7 was supposed to be 2 parts though.
@@lorenzo_smit It was. Lionsgate forced two films to become one. The result was primarly what they had in mind for the 7th film, with elements of their intended 8th film used, such as the Gordon scenes. That means we could see those unused concepts in a follow-up film.
The rumor is that the filmmakers want to do a Saw 7 follow-up to “close out Hoffman’s arc.” That likely means he still will die, just not by being trapped in the infamous bathroom. He was not mentioned in Jigsaw, so that probably means he died prior to that film’s events. A follow-up to Saw 7 can work, what we already have can make it work. It’s not exactly a resurrection, since we weren’t actually shown him dying in Saw 7, nor where we shown a corpse like with Adam (and later a flashback showing how he died).
@@darthmeticulous6901 I feel I'm probably the only person who wants a saw 7 follow up to happen so we can see what became of Bobby Dagen after Joyce's death like poor guy lost everything I Honestly would like to see what became of the character after the events of 7.
Sawr
Smh.... Let's ruin a franchise and take away what Saw is all about by bringing back a character that doesn't follow what Jigsaw started and just have a Michael Myers who is an over powered human being 🤦
He never really brought into it. That's what interesting about him he has his only philosophies. Like he'll kill if he necessary & he won't hesitate to save himself at any cost. Amanda became more likeable after Saw X ngl before that she was just self harming drug addict with daddy issues & temper tantrums. Logan was just bland & he did nothing to deserve being an apprentice. Dr. Gordon lowkey a good twist apprentice but he needs hella development.
That's what makes Hoffman my favorite the whole apprentice having empathy for people who do bad things is boring Hoffman being a guy who was basically forced to do John's work turns the games how he wants makes him an interesting character
@@Kortifex that's what makes a horrible movie. Nothing fun about a character that just goes around murdering people. The whole premise of saw is about teaching people to value their lives. That is saw!!! You take that away there is no Saw franchise!
@deanmillman6346 granted he does murder people from time to time but that's because he's a respected cop if he wasn't he would actually give everyone a chance he has winnable traps but most were unwinnable because of the people that were after him and his sisters killer which was understandable
@@Kortifex again it's not saw if you get rid of the whole premise of what Saw is about. That's what Hoffman fans don't understand. They just want an overpowered bad ass that is just lucky every single time. This isn't a Michael Myers movie.
As much as I love the Hoffman character, the Costas bubble burst for me when he commented "Fuck how you feel nose job" under a reel by Ana Kasparian about the separation of church and state. I just found that so off-putting. Be your position be what it is, but this comment was just in such poor taste to "address" her like that.
Definitely not crazy to kill him off Hoffman doesn’t always need to win it’s annoying