Tricking out a Sega Saturn (Fenrir, 50/60hz and more)
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- Опубліковано 3 сер 2022
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The Sega Saturn remained in the shadow of the Playstation in the UK but it was common enough that I got to try it out, it didn't make a huge impression on me. In later years I came to realise I might be missing out on a lot of games, especially 2D, that really shone on this console. Today then we'll make our ultimate Saturn so we can explore them. And play Outrun. Mostly Outrun.
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We're here for your booger squishing, nooks and grannies.
did you try the analogue stick in nights? also you getting the saturn switcher for it?
Muchos saludos desde Michoacán México viva sega siempre siempre eternamente
@@Caddy666 Sadly it's not true analogue.
I was... except that I wasn't. Mysteriously un-subscribed? Now fixed..
The Saturn could do genuine transparency effects but that was only for the two three people who had the system figured out to that ridiculous degree.
Sonic Team were the masters. Transparencies were used alot in Burning Rangers.
yes, it could be done but only in software, not hardware, meaning it would be hitting processors normally used for other things. A bit like how many 8-bit computers could do sprites in software.
@@HappyCodingZX There is hardware transparency, but it was complicated to implement. It also depended on the rendering order or the transparency effect could eat through things between the transparent object and the background layer. In general the programmer had to really know what they were doing and the game and art design had be done with the saturn in mind to make it work. Hence why most devs said f*** this and lazy dithering/cross hatch effects instead. Pretty much the entire the story of the Saturn.
@@GaiusIuliusCaesar1 thanks for the info - I know some coders used software tricks to give the effect of transparency so I assumed that it had to be done in software.
@@HappyCodingZX it had hardware support for transparencies it just only had it for the background layer because they put the hardware support for transparencies in the vdp responsible for backgrounds
The most famous example of this is probably DragonForce where the special effects when they pass over enemies we obscure all the enemies even if they're not really supposed to.
Also the girl in guardian Force as a transparent skirt but again if you look closely when she is over an enemy Sprite you can't see the enemy Sprite in the transparency just the background layer
"This is why Mark doesn't get to choose games." A great injustice. Cho Aniki is legendarily mental.
I used to love the arcade version of Outrun... I was on a family holiday in Spain in the late 80's and the hotel had an Outrun machine in the bar area. By the end of the 2 weeks of the holiday, it wasn't a case of whether we could complete the game or not, it was a case of who could get the faster time and top the leader board between me and my brothers. Happy days.
I've watched this channel since Neil was just doing it out of a closet. Even though I did not grow up with the kind of tech featured (I'm from 1995), it is always a blast to see the interviews, trash to treasure and repairs. Mark is such a nice bloke, hope you keep him around for a long time because you two interact so good on screen. Keep it up. And when I ever take te ferry from the continent to England, I will surely visit the cave! Thanks Neil, and thanks Mark!
I'm a big fan of the Saturn. I bought mine on launch day and was instantly hooked. Sega Rally is still one of my favourite racers, but since then I've gone on to explore the much wider Japanese catalogue.
Great video and some essential mods installed there. Nice work. 👍
You know it's gonna be a fun episode when both the lads are at the very start!!
Too bad they solder and mod like rank amateurs.
@@DamnDealDone Too bad you comment and act like a rank twat!
Thumbs up for Cho Aniki, one of the most insane, amazing games of all time. Saturn really is a 2d Powerhouse. Never got to experience one as a kid, but i've got one to delve into now. So many great Japanese exclusives as well, some getting amazing translation patches too. Such a fun series, cant wait for the next system.
The entire Cho Aniki series is worth checking out just for the absurdity of it all.
You really gotta stop calling everything ‘amazing’ lol
I can't find a cho aniki rom that works on my fenrir, the 3 that I found crash after the 1st level. Does anyone know where I can download one please?
PC was also my go-to platform and still is, but I am not a snob and can appreciate every gaming system out there. That's one of the draws of this channel, I can learn about consoles I've never even seen in real life.
Another quality production, excellent guys loved the episode!!!!
The 60fps Outrun is the best Outrun! Love your videos!
Great video Neil! I tried getting a Sega Saturn drive working again and never thought of an ODE so know what I need now. 👍🏼
Another fine video, well done
Fenrir can dump the memory contents to the SD card, and the reverse to allow battery swap. Battery still runs down with FRAM, its running the clock.
So happy you're in the 60mhz Saturn club, Mark fixes stuff videos on it got me to fix up mine a treat and play on the Saturn properly. Think you'd appreciate the N64 at 60mhz and rgb some time soon...
Great to see some Sega Saturn love on the channel Neil :)
I have such respect for you guys saving this hardware and indeed enhancing it for us all. Thank you.
Retro Bit makes officially licensed wireless recreations of the Saturn and 6- Button genesis/megadrive controllers. Both work interchangably if you buy the extra receiver. I've been happy with one of each on my Saturn/Fenrir, no b problems using ABC+Start to go back to to the fenrir menu etc.
Still no analogue stick, but very few Saturn games use it, and I don't really miss it. The Arcade stick is a much more important accessory for that system.
This is the only true way imo, I want I like retrofighter but they keep messing up on controller features. Only retrofighter controller I have is the dreamcast one.
Had my JAP Saturn since Christmas 94 , great machine and play all games with the 4 in 1 cartridge . Great video thanks👍
10:25
Great video, one thing regarding the 50/60hz switch. A PAL Saturn switched to 60hz outputs an off spec NTSC signal, 59.3hz instead of 59.97hz. Most 50/60hz switches will work fine on a CRT but won’t work on some HDTV’s and scalers because their output is off spec. You can swap the PAL crystal oscillator with an NTSC one to fix this, there’s even a dual oscillator mod available but the website for that chip you used doesn’t mention anything about the oscillator so it sound like a regular switch. Just thought I’d mention this, most PAL Saturn owners nowadays just buy a Japanese system for NTSC games as it’s cheaper and easier then getting the oscillator mod done.
Is this an issue for a modded PAL consoles if you use RGB scart since since the colour information is then not in NTSC?
@@johnjames7332 No, it’s purely to do with the refresh rate.
@@Ish0tJR Thanks
I was wondering this. Does it end up resulting in tearing or judder etc?
@@jonnyharket Typically judder and the sound cutting out.
Just fantastic! 🔥🔥🔥
Thanks a million for the quality video and the lovely humour
Lots of respect for having such a high opinion of Outrun: It holds so much nostalgia for me that I can sometimes almost burst.
I saw my first Sega Saturn in a local toystore in the Netherlands back then and also with Panzer Dragoon demo on it.
I was instantly hooked and until today I still remember that moment.
Nice video RMC
Great video guys. Very well done. New subscriber here.
I like the background music when explaining the conversion mod. 👍
I was still on the Amiga and SNES when the Saturn was released, it didn't wow me enough to want one especially at that price (and I was never impressed by the Virtua games). On the other hand when I saw Ridge Racer on the Playstation I knew I was getting one of them lol
Best Segue to an advert ever ….love that x
I'm glad I grew up in the generation that had the Commodore 64, Amstra, Megadrive Spectrum etc all in them.
The SEGA Ages version of Outrun on Switch might be the best now.
Cho Aniki is a special blend of horror and hilarity.
You know it’s going to be a good video when both of you appear at the start!
TL:DR It all happened because an 8 Year old played on an Outrun Machine..
.
Outrun was one of my first ever video games that I played. I was about 8 years old and my grandparents took me to Spain for a holiday. In the bar in our hotel was a full sit in and moved about Outrun arcade machine. I fell in love. The Master System was going to be released in time for the next Christmas. I got one. It came with Hang On game card. Other family members bought me games. So I had Wonder Boy, Space Harrier, Afterburner, Choplifter, Action Fighter, and OutRun... But I disagree with your pick for the best version of Outrun. I'm slightly bending the rules but having Outrun on a hacked PS VITA is one of the best ways to play it. It runs perfectly, with no slowdown or flicker, it sounds great and on that super crystal clear VITA screen looks stunning. And, you have Outrun in your pocket.
A few years ago before COVID I was on an aeroplane and playing Outrun on VITA and a guy about my age, 40, heard the music from a few seats in front of me. He came talking to me and we jiggled around some seating arrangements with his wife and kids and mine too so he could sit next to me and play it. lol. I showed him other retro games I stuck on there. And we just took it in turns playing our childhood games. He later told me that he is usually terrified of flying and that I'd helped him make a 3 hour flight seem like 30 minutes and we went our separate ways. But he ended up on our return flight and again we moved some people about and sat together. When we landed I gave him my hacked VITA, I had a couple of spares as sometimes the hack would brick the console so I had bought a good many broken VITAS with cracked screens and faulty batteries, they're like £10-£40 for broken ones. I had enough broken VITAs to make about 5 working ones. He wanted to buy it but only had bits of Euros on him. We swapped emails and we still talk to each other. We play rocket league and Call Of Duty together. Last year we on holiday together. I have a really good family friend.
All that happened because as an 8 year old I played on an Outrun machine.
the cleaning step should be "drop into ultrasonic, wait 2 minutes, come back"
Another lover of the 3DS version of Outrun! I'm sure that's the 3DS game I've played the most. God stuff.
have a Saturn that needs repair, your video as great as it was, has made me realise i was looking at it with rose tinted glasses, my Saturn will remain a shelf queen. Great video as always Neil
I never owned a Saturn, but I recently got a freebie "junk" one from a friend and I have been blown away by the library of available games here in Japan. It was a monster here and it's a shame that didn't translate to the west...
The Sega Saturn could do transparencies, reflections and other effects in the hands of those who could program the console to its max.
I swear you and the guy Simon from "Mega Projects" have to be twins!!!
Amazing video.
booked for the 10th of september cant wait!
LOL. 17:50 "This is why mark doesn't get to choose games" 🤣🤣 I love trippy japanese titles myself.
What a lovely mod! Soon our Multisystems will play Saturn hopefully😀😀💪 I haven’t played the system for so long and could never find many good games back then 🌱
My understanding of the analogue stick on Saturn (I can verify this on my Saturn later) is that for MOST Saturn games they are digital only. Only certain games programmed to take advantage of the analogue stick will play the way you are expecting. I would suggest trying Nights into Dreams and see if the analogue stick works on that one. Back in the day I bought the bundle that came with the analogue pad and Nights together.
I’ve had a chat with the supplier and they confirmed this is digital only
@@RMCRetro that's the thing with Retro fighters products. Always so close, but always an issue with the design of them. I believe this is digital only as it was primarily aimed at use on the Megadrive.
As I know. Only 5 or 6 games had taken advantage of the analog stick. Games like Daytona USA CCE, Burning Rangers, Nights and Sega Rally. I can be forgetting some game or another. But isn't many more.
Sonic R, Sonic Jam e Sonic 3D Blast had the support for the analog stick, but don't take advantage of that.
Others, like the original Daytona or Sega Manx TT Superbike, were compatible, had taken advantage, but weren't designed to be used with the analog stick, but with the Saturn's racing wheel.
That's the most complicated ODE mod I've seen, good job guys.
(title for a book on console modding "ODE to Joy...sticks")
(I'll get me coat)
I’m leaving this comment because I really enjoy his videos. Nothing clever. I never would’ve started my own if not for channels like his. It’s the only family I know. We are a nostalgia union.
The B-roll of Mark putting the box down and the Edge magazine fondling tickled me, I think it might have reminded me of some shots in Look Around You.
Write that down in your copybooks now.
Picked up a Saturn and a Fenrir mod, having a good time with it so far :)
This and LGR's recent video have convinced to get a ODE for my playstation.
I modded my PAL Saturn for a permanent 60hz output, i never want to play 50hz ever again. Region switch to to be able to boot my US and PAL games
I live to see Neil’s “wang” 😂 Always love to see Mark. My favourite content on here is when things are slightly off script. It’s nice to see your personalities shine through ♥️
Another great video where I enjoy watching them. But I noticed when you said about "trying out a Saturn in a shop but knew the Playstation was coming", I thought the Playstation was released a good few months before the Saturn here at the UK. I could be totally wrong and will google it up, just that I was one of the early adopters of the PS by being able to purchase one on the week of its release and then remember being unimpressed with the Saturn (lack of transparency effect, framerate seems more choppier, etc) when that came out a few months later. I guess it might just be my memory playing tricks with age and having been a bit of a PS fanboy.
Great introduction for the Saturn,btw the wipeout version you shown is the first episode, which differs from the psx version for some different tunes, worse FPS and a different collision model, this did not deter me to purchase it one week before getting the actual console and consuming the disc in both the SS and in the portable CD player
Didn't it get some flak for being inferior to the PS1 version, or was that the N64 one. If only Sony didn't kill WipEout around a decade ago...
I do enjoy watching Neil and Mark together.
The Cartridge is also available with mutli region capabilities and also can allow you to play game backups, it works great - I have one.
They put a lot of work in to do what the cartridge already does, but interesting to watch anyways
I have that Multipack for my Saturn 😊
I don't know why, but the Saturn version of Wipe-out was always my favourite on any system.
20:00 That is such an oversight to not have analog support when the SS clearly had analog games like Nights and such. :P I'd even argue the MD XE-1 AP could use some aftermarket support too. Not to undervalue the SS/MD/SMS support aspect but I would think the SS would be the primary market for that new controller.
Awesome! I have a Satiator (which loads games through the VCD port at the back) as I still have a working CD drive. I am interested in the region mod though!
It's always going to be good when Mark is there.
I looked at modern alternative controllers but I settled on and would recommend the brook convertors from brook accessories, xbox controller (or you can use PS4 or PS3) connected wirelessly or wired - one box/dongle with a Saturn and DC connector. I do like the uniqueness of the original controllers - they are boxed and put away. The analog on XBox/PS are so much better.
Iirc, the Saturn could do transparency effects. It took some doing, but it was doable. The 3D chips couldn't (by default), but the 2D side could definitely handle transparency.
Honestly, transparency isn't "free" in almost any circumstance. You basically have to generate a bunch of distance maps and do post-rasterization compositing.
It’s the VDP2 chip which makes this possible.
You can have transparency at both 2D and 3D games, as the effect happens between VDP-2 Layers, it's ok to have transparency.
You see examples in games like Sonic R and Burning Rangers.
But indeed 2D games are easier to perceive the transparency effect, as in Megaman X4.
Saturn it's incapable to apply transparency between elements from the same layer. Guardian heroes for example. In that game has a character that haves a transparency cloth. When some enemy it's placed below that cloth, that enemy simply vanishes and this is because of the way that Saturn handles the elements on the screen.
Basically, effects like lighting and transparency are applied by the VDP-2, with handles all the post-processing and at that stage, all elements rendered by the VDP-1 are treated like a single layer, which makes it impossible to handle effects between in-layer elements.
indeed SonicR shows it is possible. required talented programmers though.....
another hacky way to do things on already terrible hardware.
More Sega Saturn love is always a good thing. PS - You showed gameplay of Wipeout 1, not Wipeout 2097
I'll take responsibility for Mark choosing Cho Aniki, lol. I suggested he play the TG-16 version on a livestream he did a while back. I recall his and the chats' reactions being quite entertaining!
Fond memories of the Saturn. The video tape rental stores where I lived sold them off cheap (NZ$50 for a console and 3 games if memory serves) when the console failed. A large discount chain then got a batch of games and sold them off cheap. Helped a poor Uni student amass a decent collection and to be able to play some great 2d games (Mortal Kombat, King of Fighters, Fighters Megamix come to mind). Managed to pick up the same Sega Ages you have here back in the day (in my case I wanted Afterburner). I haven't yet entered the world of ODE, though the softmod with the 4MB cartridge seems to work well with the CDRs (touch wood!). Coincidentally, the first game I wanted requiring the soft mod was Powerdrift - a good conversion and definitely better than the Amiga! A bit surprised given it's history of being an ex-rental that mine still works after close to 25 years!
Mark finally 'exposes' Neil to a Cho Aniki game! Maybe Mark should next choose '6 Inch My Darling'.
I have a large library of original Saturn games, so a Optical drive emulator that allows the CD-drive to stay is ideal for me! That's the one I'll be buying, I've decided not to get an ODE before now because I didn't want to give up my perfectly working Saturn CD-drive. Had no idea there was such an option now, thank you!
Wonderful mods. You no longer need to remove the CD Drive thanks to the Saturn Switch mod that retains both the ODE and the CD Drive there is also the Satiator which plugs into the expansion port. And as for those that prefer NTSC J consoles there is the Pico Universal PSU mod, power efficient, runs cooler and no more step up transformer.
"Give the reset switch a wang." Looks like it's already got one and a happy one at that!
Yes. Sega Ages vol. 1 is awesome for Outrun. I play it with the Sega Arcade wheel along with Sega Rally, Daytona & Virtua Racing. It also works well with Manx TT. I did a fun review of the Saturn wheel on my channel. I just wish they did Super Hang on for the Saturn, that would be awesome.
I adore Outrun! I hacked it on this channel last year, to never RunOut of time and so finally see every stage. In 34 years I’d never even finished one whole stage! And I played it on Arcade but I hacked the SEGA MegaDrive version but also the Mame (arcade Rom) but I shot all staged whilst playing the megadrive.
Instead of Fenrir/MODE, I went with Satiator. Can't use an MPEG card anymore (...not that I ever had one) but I don't have to swap out my working drive to play games from an SD card, so the biggest win possible. I only have one Saturn, it's my baby bought in '98 and the thought of modifying it made me sweat bullets and almost cry.
Saturn collecting/buying/selling was bananas back in the early - mid 2000's. I sold my modded Saturn, X-Men vs SF (with cart), Marvel, vs SF, Bomberman, Darkstalkers Revenge, KoF 95, Samurai Shodown 3, X-Men COTA, and Alpha 2 for £750 back in 2004. I also bought Try Rush Deppy for $30 in 2001, then traded it for Demon's Blazon on the SFC a couple of years later
Sega Rally was what I played on it, blew me away.
Bought one a week after it was released and loved it. Tomb raider was another level in the day.
Wasn't expecting to see Cho Aniki on this channel XD
You can get a PCB called a SaturnPSU that replaces the power board with a smaller/cooler one that runs of any >=3A 12v PSU, it's a great bit of kit that runs cooler and more reliable than the original PCB as there's no AC/DC conversion so less to go wrong.
I put a M.O.D.E. in my Saturn awhile ago and it is a wonderful console. I'd personally recommend doing the FRAM mod to it so your not relying on battery for your save games.
Neil! Fantastic video as always. I need to ask a serious question. Where can I get the console display case you have with the coloured leds? I need one in my life
This is perfect for a console with a dead disc drive but if you have one with a working drive, get a Satiator, you can get the ODE features of a Fenrir but you can still use your CDs and games! It plugs into the rear VCD card slot.
Nice video. Some detail about the difference between oval button (20 pin) and round button (21 pin) Saturns and the Fenrir would have been nice. Also region free bios instead of cutting the motherboard
Greetings from Oz. The Sega Saturn has 540 game titles so there's plenty for everyone and I still use it offen. Cheers Neil & co
You don't need that region free mod since the Fenrir takes care of this. All you need is to switch the console to 60hz permanently, which can be done with a single wire, no extra mods needed. The you can use NTSC roms with the Fenrir.
Try Deathtank Zwei on the Saturn - best multiplayer pickup and play game, ideal for the cave! It's a bonus game avaialble on Duke Nukem 3D (unlocked if you have a Quake save game)
The Saturn I bought just after it came out still works and I'm hesitant to replace the disc drive with a Fenrir as I love putting my old games (and also new ones I'm still getting to expand my collection) in and playing it the way it was meant to be played. I only need to fix the screw holes as they got stripped by me opening and closing it multiple times like for deactivating the sensor for the lid being opened or closed as I used the swap trick to play imports back in the day (now I got an Action Replay Plus which also functions as memory card and 4M RAM expansion). Still remember downloading games like Psychic Killer Taromaru and so on via 56k modem (5kB/sec oh yeah!)...
Just got a Virtua Arcade Stick as I never owned one. Already got enough normal controllers and the 3D pad but also looked at these RetroFighters pads before as I wonder if they might be better than my original Saturn and MD pads. Also do they really support the MS as the original MD pads can be plugged into the MS but have issues? Would also love to use the MD pads on my C64 but they don't work there, while the MS pads work but are quite bad.
Nice 👍
That is my entire Saturn library,on the desk :D
Cool 😎
Awesome video! I am Saturn fan since 1994. in the video you have done the region free mod if you go that way It would have been better to add the phantom modchip. instead of using the all in one cart.
And also you can do an other mod is to reduce the heat in the saturn by replacing the power board 220v to a 12v pico psu. sega for life!!!
That's correct about Outrun and I knew it was coming as soon as I saw Sega Ages. I emualte that disc on Saturn over MAME.
Is it still the best version though? For console maybe, but if pc is part of the choices, the cannoball mod might be the definitive version!
This almost makes me want to dig out my Saturn with light guns and see if it all still works. I'm sure there's an old CRT tv somewhere I can plug it into...
I have that analogue controller too with the Nights Into Dreams game.
Oh wow i remeber daytona now. Used to be my favorite
I'm using an SSD with a Terraonion Mode (with also fits the Dreamcast) with works superbly.
Excellent observation regarding the ageing of 2D and 3D titles. I find 16-bit titles (especially platformers) generally have aged better than Playstation-era 3D games, which look pretty awful these days, and often don't play brilliantly either. When these machines do enter 2D world though, it does look flipping brilliant.
Most 3D games of that generation looked bad to me even back in the day.
@@31leoceara Haha,we've got a proper grump here -- kudos!
😄👍
If you enjoy arcade racers, make sure you also take a crack at MANX TT. It's very short but it's arcade fun in the vein of Daytona USA. Sadly it does lose a little bit in coming to the Saturn since the arcade cabinet had a ride-on motorcycle as a controller.
Great. Last year I got a Saturn and only build in a modchip.
Big like drop 👍
Ye, the Sega Ages all got individual releases in Japan, plus more
Great video. The PAL Sega Ages pack wasn’t optimised well. It doesn’t run proper in either PAL or NTSC. The timers run too quick. It’s the same with Manx TT. It’s best using the Japanese releases of them. The individual Outrun in Japan had an extra soundtrack on the disc also. They released another version of Daytona in Japan called CCE Edition and that improves the Graphics further and adds the original music. Try out the Sega Rally Plus from Japan also as it adds the PAL version’s improvements and analogue support.
This is the only "mainstream" console I'm currently missing from my collection, not including PS5 and XBOX-X from the current gen. Nice work boys!
I recommend finding a way to import a Japanese one. They sell saturn working for like 30$ especially if your just going to mod it. In usa druggies want like 120$ for a beat up one with no accessories.