This is the absolute best instructional on making paper cartridges. I messed with the wrong paper and the damn string I took hours to make enough rounds to enjoy an afternoon of shooting. You are correct about the charge. My Brown Bess (1771) likes hot loads for black powder. We have shot this musket all of my life; it was an heirloom of my ancestors service in NJ during the Revolution. It is accurate up to 75 yards. Great presentation
Good video! The gluing is actually historically accurate. That is how the French made up their cartidges according to Lyman's Cast Bullet Handbook third edition. The British tied theirs. Powder charge seems fine to me also. Gives you some extra to pre prime the pan.
I've got the Model 1771 Nepalese Gurka Bess kit from IMA-USA. Those "footie" barrels were made stout, and can easily take a 120 gr. charge of FFg. I proofed my barrel with 150 gr. with no signs of problems. I'll be hunting with mine loaded with 120 gr. behind a .690 round ball!
Yeah Murph, I need to get some 1F. Right now I've only got FFG and FFG. Thanks for the tip. I noticed that you said this helped with the Sniders as well.
excuse the pedantic comment, but while 120 grains was the correct charge in British and U.S. muskets, it was reduced after percussion ignition was adopted to 110 grains. The musket was pan was primed from the cartridge, the frizzen snapped shut over the priming, and then loaded. These days, for safety reasons, one has to first load, then prime. So one is constrained by modern safety standards. Second, the use of paste in lieu of flax thread was done... By the French! French cartridges are what you've got yourself there... Same type used in the French Revolutionary Wars, and in the Napoleonic period. . Thanks for the tutorial!
you would need a explosive licence, but you could get one granted easily if you had a shotgun certificate (which would cover muskets) or firearm certificate which would cover rifled guns and pistol (muzzle loading)
There's a lot of people out there with real dodgy reproductions, and who don't shoot past 20 yards or only run blanks at battle demos. Most of these people have also not looked at the loads used in shotguns, find older boxes with Drams equivalent (Dr. Eq) marked on the side, its the equivalent black powder charge. I've had to use that little nugget to quiet squawkers at shoots.
If that was 3fg I'd agree, but you stated 1fg, and that is robust, but not unsafe in a good weapon. 3fg would be risky, perhaps downright dangerous. Best bet is to consult the manufacturer.
In my own experience, most charges of 100 grains and up start to crack and break the wrist on the stocks. I have to assume this was an issue back in the days when flint lock muskets were common issue to the military. However, the military had armorers, and carpenters and i would think they would just replace the damaged stocks.
Not bad. I wonder if you can dip those paper cartridges in wax or bullet lube to help water / weather proof them? I think you should experiment and try it. Might make a good video.
One of the things Ive noticed using paper cartridges like this is that when shooting, the paper burns and leaves this terrible black sticky almost tar like fouling in the bore. Not the normal black powder fouling all these guns get, but literally black sticky burnt paper. It doesn't really effect loading while your shooting because the ball is so undersized, but it does make cleaning the gun about 10 times harder and longer than it needs to be at the end of the day. So I cheat. I do it half military/half civilian. I still roll the cartridges up the same old military way, but after biting the tail and dumping the powder down the bore, instead of just sending the paper and ball down the barrel to I remove the ball from the paper and toss the paper away. I then use a patch greased with wonderlube 1000 which all black powder barrels love and send the ball down wrapped in the patch. A little bit more time consuming as Im adding an extra step to the process, but no more sticky black burnt paper cartridge in my bore. Makes cleaning a breeze at the end of the day.
I have a question: Could I use cartridges with my flintlock pistol? It's a 15mm caliber smoothbore pistol (i think that is equal to .59 cal.). If i could, what caliber should be the ball? I'm a newbie with black powder so any help is welcome. Cheers from Croatia
I use 80 gr of ffg and the same sized ball without the patch. I wrap the paper English style, but forgo the tying. (since I usually shoot them within a week of making. I also don't march all over Europe for months on end, with them in my cartridge pouch.)That's impressive shooting; I'm hitting silhouette targets 4/5 times and being pleased, until now!
I use 1F because that's all that was in stock at the local gun store at the time I was gearing up for my Bess... what difference do you notice and why?
There was a guy in 1778 who was in a battle with the Indians. He started making cartridges like this. By the time he had one almost finished, he had 70 arrows in him.
Does anyone know if the EIC Model F's are safe to shoot a lot of shots through? I bought one in march and want to know if there is any significant danger.
Depending on the venue where the cartridge will be used, any fastening mechanism such as glue, tape, staples, etc are verboten. As well as a charge the size of 120 g. Please check with your local group for cartridge safety specifications. For live firing on the range with no one on the muzzle end and only your safety at risk then you may do as you wish. If a public display then please follow the venues regulations.
It was far worse to get hit by a musket ball than by a modern bullet, when a modern bullet hits you it punches a clean hole straight through you, but when a musket ball hits you it flattens out on impact and tears your insides apart instead of leaving a neat little hole in them.
@@kadekitchin7356 Weirdly, when shooting at ballistic gel we got no noticeable distortion. Going through armour, yes. I imagine bone would cause distortion. The matchlock I shoot at work gives me a 570 gr ball going 1,300 fps at 3 feet from muzzle. It's a scary amount of KE (kenetic energy) in foot/pounds pressure. over 2,000 if I recall correctly. JYF museums, should be releasing a video here in a few monthes on UA-cam with some of the effects of bullets and arrows against armour and ballistic gel backing.
@@fredscholpp5838 yup, balls just push a big hole through most of the time. If you can find them after shooting deer and whatnot, they often look like they could be loaded again lol.
Joshua Bostic For what purpose? He's making live rounds for the range or hunting, so you can certainly vary the powder charge. 120grs is a bit stout for me though. I use 90grs of FFg for my paper cartridges. I also use thinner tracing paper, as the .735 round balls I have are too tight with heavier paper. He's right about accuracy... I can shoot the bullseye out at 50 yards with my Bess and tight loads.
Well I just think that 120 ofis to much for a older muskit.the most I've ever used in mine is 85 that's good power good rang and for reenacting it's a good bang.
This video is about *live fire*... Standard military loads for smoothbore were well over 100 grains, and the British load for Enfield Pritchett cartridges was 68 grains.
You forgot to mention that some of the powder in the cartridge is supposed to be used for priming the pan. You DON'T dump the whole load down the barrel
120 gr. is way too much powder for that musket. You shouldn't be tellin' armatures and Cabela hunters to use that much powder in their guns. The accepted formula used by experienced Muzzle Loader Shooters is the calibre of the gun +/- 10%. I use 80 gr. FG and get the same accuracy that you say. As my ol' Marine Corps DI used to say, "It's not the dope on the gun, it's the dope behind it". That's one thing I could never get over when I go to shoots. People just can't get it through their heads that it's a Black Powder Gun, not a 30-06. I went to a shoot a couple weeks ago, and there was a guy using 120 gr. FFFG in a .45 cal. Plains Rifle. That's almost 12 inches of powder in that barrel. I don't get it. It is really cool the way you make your cartridges though. Thanks.
Smerferlerf I dare you to put 165 gr in any musket, especially an India musket. I'll stand behind a tree while dialing 911. However there's a moron in every bunch.
Madras Arsenal i don't think he wants to hear it. I posted a link to guys using full loads and for some reason he had it removed. It was to a youtube clip so I don't know why.
This is the absolute best instructional on making paper cartridges. I messed with the wrong paper and the damn string I took hours to make enough rounds to enjoy an afternoon of shooting. You are correct about the charge. My Brown Bess (1771) likes hot loads for black powder. We have shot this musket all of my life; it was an heirloom of my ancestors service in NJ during the Revolution. It is accurate up to 75 yards. Great presentation
I made my first batch of lead balls & cartridges this evening, thanks in part to this great video! :)
Good video! The gluing is actually historically accurate. That is how the French made up their cartidges according to Lyman's Cast Bullet Handbook third edition. The British tied theirs. Powder charge seems fine to me also. Gives you some extra to pre prime the pan.
Another excellent video! I would suggest a 120gr charge of 1F or 1.5F I think the accuracy will surprise you even more!
Most stocks start to crack and break at 100 grains and up of FFG in my experience.
Newsprint works about the best I’ve found since it’s almost perfect thickness
Funny you should say that. I’m a printmaker with some on hand and was curious how well it would work. Good to know.
Too bad most new papers are on line these days ....
Excellent "how to," guide. Thank you for posting!
1:22
Wow that's quite a treat! I'd love to see some pics of your Bess in action.
I've got the Model 1771 Nepalese Gurka Bess kit from IMA-USA. Those "footie" barrels were made stout, and can easily take a 120 gr. charge of FFg. I proofed my barrel with 150 gr. with no signs of problems. I'll be hunting with mine loaded with 120 gr. behind a .690 round ball!
Yeah Murph, I need to get some 1F. Right now I've only got FFG and FFG.
Thanks for the tip. I noticed that you said this helped with the Sniders as well.
excuse the pedantic comment, but while 120 grains was the correct charge in British and U.S. muskets, it was reduced after percussion ignition was adopted to 110 grains. The musket was pan was primed from the cartridge, the frizzen snapped shut over the priming, and then loaded. These days, for safety reasons, one has to first load, then prime. So one is constrained by modern safety standards.
Second, the use of paste in lieu of flax thread was done... By the French! French cartridges are what you've got yourself there... Same type used in the French Revolutionary Wars, and in the Napoleonic period. . Thanks for the tutorial!
😄
Viva la France!
you would need a explosive licence, but you could get one granted easily if you had a shotgun certificate (which would cover muskets) or firearm certificate which would cover rifled guns and pistol (muzzle loading)
I will work up something this week Thank You
No grease ?? btw like so much the simple way you use.
I dipped the ball into liquid wax - shooting a rifled barrel though.
why is everyone freaking out about the 120gr powder charge that's the standard military load
no 75 too 80 is the standard load for the 75 cals
120 can blow of your face
GTA 5 game play on xbox360 so please tell me why the British service load for a brown Bess 75 caliber musket was 160 grains of 1f powder
There's a lot of people out there with real dodgy reproductions, and who don't shoot past 20 yards or only run blanks at battle demos. Most of these people have also not looked at the loads used in shotguns, find older boxes with Drams equivalent (Dr. Eq) marked on the side, its the equivalent black powder charge. I've had to use that little nugget to quiet squawkers at shoots.
If that was 3fg I'd agree, but you stated 1fg, and that is robust, but not unsafe in a good weapon. 3fg would be risky, perhaps downright dangerous. Best bet is to consult the manufacturer.
In my own experience, most charges of 100 grains and up start to crack and break the wrist on the stocks. I have to assume this was an issue back in the days when flint lock muskets were common issue to the military. However, the military had armorers, and carpenters and i would think they would just replace the damaged stocks.
Not bad. I wonder if you can dip those paper cartridges in wax or bullet lube to help water / weather proof them? I think you should experiment and try it. Might make a good video.
One of the things Ive noticed using paper cartridges like this is that when shooting, the paper burns and leaves this terrible black sticky almost tar like fouling in the bore. Not the normal black powder fouling all these guns get, but literally black sticky burnt paper. It doesn't really effect loading while your shooting because the ball is so undersized, but it does make cleaning the gun about 10 times harder and longer than it needs to be at the end of the day. So I cheat. I do it half military/half civilian. I still roll the cartridges up the same old military way, but after biting the tail and dumping the powder down the bore, instead of just sending the paper and ball down the barrel to I remove the ball from the paper and toss the paper away. I then use a patch greased with wonderlube 1000 which all black powder barrels love and send the ball down wrapped in the patch. A little bit more time consuming as Im adding an extra step to the process, but no more sticky black burnt paper cartridge in my bore. Makes cleaning a breeze at the end of the day.
What sort of paper are you using?
How many shots do you get off before fouling gets bad
After 10 shots the fouling starts to build and it starts to become noticeable the more you shoot.
I have a question: Could I use cartridges with my flintlock pistol? It's a 15mm caliber smoothbore pistol (i think that is equal to .59 cal.). If i could, what caliber should be the ball? I'm a newbie with black powder so any help is welcome. Cheers from Croatia
I load 100gr of Fg with about 15gr of FFFFg in the pan, I use a .715 round ball with .018 patches and I can hit a pie plate at 100 yards 4/5 shots.
I use 80 gr of ffg and the same sized ball without the patch. I wrap the paper English style, but forgo the tying. (since I usually shoot them within a week of making. I also don't march all over Europe for months on end, with them in my cartridge pouch.)That's impressive shooting; I'm hitting silhouette targets 4/5 times and being pleased, until now!
since you have that cartridge box do you reenact?
I use 1F because that's all that was in stock at the local gun store at the time I was gearing up for my Bess... what difference do you notice and why?
1 F is alright. The main difference is loss of velocity. The finer the grain, or the higher the F rating is usually a higher velocity.
How long can this type cartridge last?
There was a guy in 1778 who was in a battle with the Indians. He started making cartridges like this. By the time he had one almost finished, he had 70 arrows in him.
Prior planning prevents piss poor performance. ..... the 6 Ps.
Hello, i have a indian brown bess. where do you buy the ammunition?
you don't buy the ammo you must make it
Does anyone know if the EIC Model F's are safe to shoot a lot of shots through? I bought one in march and want to know if there is any significant danger.
Depending on the venue where the cartridge will be used, any fastening mechanism such as glue, tape, staples, etc are verboten. As well as a charge the size of 120 g. Please check with your local group for cartridge safety specifications. For live firing on the range with no one on the muzzle end and only your safety at risk then you may do as you wish. If a public display then please follow the venues regulations.
can you buy black power in the uk?
Yes you can, as long as you have the proper paperwork. Kranks in Leeds sell it.
Not sure, but im almost certain you can obtain the ingredients to make it.
@@blueduck9409 with the right paperwork you can hold up to 10kgs worth
Can u shoot it lefty
yes, priming flash is distracting, but it's safe
Can you imagine how horrible it was to get hit with one of these musket balls?
It was far worse to get hit by a musket ball than by a modern bullet, when a modern bullet hits you it punches a clean hole straight through you, but when a musket ball hits you it flattens out on impact and tears your insides apart instead of leaving a neat little hole in them.
@@kadekitchin7356 Weirdly, when shooting at ballistic gel we got no noticeable distortion. Going through armour, yes. I imagine bone would cause distortion. The matchlock I shoot at work gives me a 570 gr ball going 1,300 fps at 3 feet from muzzle. It's a scary amount of KE (kenetic energy) in foot/pounds pressure. over 2,000 if I recall correctly. JYF museums, should be releasing a video here in a few monthes on UA-cam with some of the effects of bullets and arrows against armour and ballistic gel backing.
@@fredscholpp5838 yup, balls just push a big hole through most of the time. If you can find them after shooting deer and whatnot, they often look like they could be loaded again lol.
Amputation was almost instant, if the poor soul survived.
Cheating? Meh. If they had Elmers in the 18th Century I bet they would have used it.
Not so sure...String doesnt suffer from Moisture ;)
Wouldn’t that kind of charge blow up the gun?
powder charge way to hot
Actually it's not hot enough. Historically the charge could vary between 150 grains all the way up to 200 grains depending on the time period.
The shots were not tied at any of the ends, they we twisted and stamped at the bottom to close them and twisted at the top three times
75 Grs is for the Flintlock's And 60 GR's is for the civil war musket . not 120
Joshua Bostic For what purpose? He's making live rounds for the range or hunting, so you can certainly vary the powder charge. 120grs is a bit stout for me though. I use 90grs of FFg for my paper cartridges. I also use thinner tracing paper, as the .735 round balls I have are too tight with heavier paper. He's right about accuracy... I can shoot the bullseye out at 50 yards with my Bess and tight loads.
Well I just think that 120 ofis to much for a older muskit.the most I've ever used in mine is 85 that's good power good rang and for reenacting it's a good bang.
Joshua Bostic You reenact with live ball rounds? Must be hard to recruit new members...
No you no what i mean xD
This video is about *live fire*... Standard military loads for smoothbore were well over 100 grains, and the British load for Enfield Pritchett cartridges was 68 grains.
You forgot to mention that some of the powder in the cartridge is supposed to be used for priming the pan. You DON'T dump the whole load down the barrel
120 gr. is way too much powder for that musket. You shouldn't be tellin' armatures and Cabela hunters to use that much powder in their guns. The accepted formula used by experienced Muzzle Loader Shooters is the calibre of the gun +/- 10%. I use 80 gr. FG and get the same accuracy that you say. As my ol' Marine Corps DI used to say, "It's not the dope on the gun, it's the dope behind it". That's one thing I could never get over when I go to shoots. People just can't get it through their heads that it's a Black Powder Gun, not a 30-06. I went to a shoot a couple weeks ago, and there was a guy using 120 gr. FFFG in a .45 cal. Plains Rifle. That's almost 12 inches of powder in that barrel. I don't get it. It is really cool the way you make your cartridges though. Thanks.
origianal british load was 6 drams- 165 grains, and they were proofed at 23.5 drams-642 grains. With modern metals i'm sure it's fine
Smerferlerf Well said Smerferlerf!
Smerferlerf I dare you to put 165 gr in any musket, especially an India musket. I'll stand behind a tree while dialing 911. However there's a moron in every bunch.
Will ToSurvive You do realize that this is a musket that was made in England and used in India right?
Madras Arsenal i don't think he wants to hear it. I posted a link to guys using full loads and for some reason he had it removed. It was to a youtube clip so I don't know why.