This review reminded me of his review of Brass Birmingham (check it out if you haven’t seen it). Long story short, he didn’t like it, but he respected the game for what it was and understood that many would love it for some of the reasons he didn’t like it. So, I respect the review of Salton Sea and his opinion of it and I’m sure I’ll love it for the reasons he didn’t like it. His reviews aren’t for ones to like what he likes and hate what he hates. They are for ones to listen closely to the things he liked/disliked and to understand the overall gameplay so you can make an informed decision of whether or not it’s the game for you.
I thought Tom did a great job here of highlighting the interesting parts of a game and explaining why he didn’t enjoy it very much. Someone who would enjoy it could probably figure that out by actually listening to the review. People need to stop making such a big deal about the final number score as it’s just not that important.
@@RulebooksForYou I just played this one, and yeah, the comparison to Cooper Island feels very apt! It's a lot to figure out, but I think you can get much better after a few games and the game will feel much more rewarding still!
I didn't feel this being more restrictive than, say, Arnak. I enjoyed my 2 hours with this game at DTW and bought it after. The card/money/worker placement combo is really clever and I loved how the game comes together.
Ahh, that's a great point about Arnak. That game is really tight once you get down to it. It's always about trying to figure out a way to get 1 specific resource by doing 17 other things so you can do that one last thing you really want.
All it needed to make playing more enjoyable (and less punishing) was a simple rule tweak. On a single selling action, you are allowed to sell multiple goods of one type. That just freed up the money tightness and made the game easier.
Fair review Tom. It's sad that people jump all over you for a '5' which isn't even that bad a score in the first place, and after you point out all the things you liked about it, but that tightness brought your number down some. This actually sounds worse than a 5 to me, but a lot of these Euros just aren't fun or interesting, and are rarely all that heavy either, although some can be pleasant surprises.
The whole theme rubs me the wrong way - of all the rich history the Salton Sea brings along with the surrounding area, let's make a game about capitalism.
It's clearly an oil drilling game that someone rethemed because they were worried about offending people. And instead we got this absolutely nonsense theme that makes zero sense.
We just played this last night. I own Red Cathedral and White Castle as well and Devir games seem to be getting progressively tighter. We played a 2 player game and we were pretty frustrated with how little we managed to accomplish. I like the cards but felt I had no choice but to spend them since most actions require a lot of money. Frustrating but interesting enough to try again and see if we can find a path of efficiency.
I appreciate the group reviews as well! Totally agree this one needed it. With that being said, this review reminded me of his review of Brass Birmingham. He didn’t like it, but he respected the game for what it was and understood that many would love it for some of the reasons he didn’t like it. I respect the review of Salton Sea and his opinion of it and I’m sure I’ll love it for the reasons he didn’t like it.
@@kanaestudio Because Tom generally does not like heavy games. Wendy and Chris generally review the heavy games on the DT, so having their opinion there would be helpful
@@kanaestudioalso it was a nice change to have at least two people giving the review. That way you can hear about the game from different perspectives. For me, it was easier to come to a conclusion as to whether or not I should try/buy a game because I heard various viewpoints/angles as opposed to just one. It doesn’t matter for me if he liked the game; I’m more interested in the gameplay and the explanation of parts of the game that may be of interest
I had a similar experience with Crystal Palace. I liked almost everything about the game except that it wasnt fun, the entire game felt like punishment.
I think Tom was very clear that while he didn't enjoy the game for its tightness, that others who do enjoy that tightness, probably would like it, which is totally fair and a great review in my mind. I think too many reviewers recognize that a game is good overalll (from a technical standpoint) so they give it a higher score than they personally like it. That isn't as helpful of a review to me. So good for Tom. My personal opinion is that this is a great game, but I can see why some wouldn't enjoy it. As far as the tightness goes, this is a game where you have to start small -- complete a small contract, sell a few brines early, etc, to get your economy going. It's so tempting to go big early with all the cool cards, but that will usually sink you and make the game even tighter.
I have quite an easy time fitting the games back in the box, not sure why Tom is having issues. I LOVE that they’re putting the games in as small of boxes as possible. I’m so tired of buying a game and the box being way too big for the game. Also, the big $5 actions aren’t a bad feature in the game, it’s a very good feature. You have to work up to them. It’s very tempting to get them immediately, but then you’re tying up all your money. Much better to float smaller currencies, like $1 and $3 cards until you build the engine that can support you tying up all your currency in the $5 cards, which you’ll use for actions.
This game is great, and the tightness is lovely. I think a lot of people will like it as long as they aren't expecting another White Castle (which I also enjoy for different reasons). Full disclosure, Brass and FCM are among my favorite games
At this point Tom reviewing medium-heavy Euros is about as useful as me reviewing Dungeon Crawlers. It’s sad that this review may put people off a game that is so cheap and gives you a feel of a much more expensive Euro (it definitely has Lacerda vibes, but at a fifth of the price). Chris and Wendy should be reviewing all the heavier Euros for Dice Tower at this point.
This is the only thing that sucks, people are going to pass up an awesome game because they just look at scores. Then again, that's kind of thier own fault too...
@@PwndNewbie What does BRUTALLY PUNISHING even mean? Tough decisions and trade offs? Would you say the same about Food Chain Magnate? Would Tom rate that game a 5/10 as well? This game here is mechanically super sound, connects its various parts well and at 3-4 players really requires you to PLAY WELL and MAKE TOUGH DECISIONS. I understand that can be very difficult for some but that doesn't make this a 5/10 (which honestly makes it sound like the game is shite)
You can definitely accomplish a lot on white castle, although in some games combos can be harder to calculate/find than others depending on the cards and tokens on the board. Maybe you just got a very bad combination whenever you tried the game.
@@nicolascastelli4439 possibly and possibly we sucked at it. We only played once but felt a bit turned off by the feeling of spending so many dead turns just trying to setup for a large turn that turned out to not be that large.
As a former CA resident who has been to and heard a lot about the Salton Sea - it is smelly and full of chemical runoff from local farms. It was accidentally created by a breach of a new irrigation system in 1905 that filled an ancient salt lake basin that has taken about 120 years to dry up, creating an environmental crisis due to the toxic dust layer being exposed. Apparently this game has slapped a happy face on the subject. Hard pass!
I'm 100% on the same page as Tom here. It's a fascinating set of mechanisms, but the margins on the basic actions basically work out to $0 and you REALLY need to monopolize the science and money actions to get any kind of surplus.
I'll play it soon, but I'd like to say that what you didn't like is actually what I love about some games, especially economical games. I understand your point of view, but I can't see it as a negative thing. Your comment made me even more interested in playing Salton Sea now! 😂 I loved White Castle, which brings me that same sense of challenge in accomplishing what was planned. However, one thing really caught my attention in this game, the extremely complicated thematic approach, to say the least. Not only for bringing a clear propagandist bias, promoting geothermal energy as the new panacea, something it is not, as well as for disregarding the negative impacts of the activity on the Salton Sea itself! But that's okay, I think it's possible to enjoy the game without losing sight of the criticism.
SU&SD didnt like Wingspan, Tom didnt like Brass. and i think Dune imperium is better than uprising. its all really about your type of game, sometimes i like my games to be tight like agricola and sometimes i want to play a sandboxy game like Feast for Odin and i feel like i might like this game once i played it also its compacted but im not sure about the theme yet :)
This review reminded me of his review of Brass Birmingham (check it out if you haven’t seen it). Long story short, he didn’t like it, but he respected the game for what it was and understood that many would love it for some of the reasons he didn’t like it. So, I respect the review of Salton Sea and his opinion of it and I’m sure I’ll love it for the reasons he didn’t like it. His reviews aren’t for ones to like what he likes and hate what he hates. They are for ones to listen closely to the things he liked/disliked and to understand the overall gameplay so you can make an informed decision of whether or not it’s the game for you.
I thought Tom did a great job here of highlighting the interesting parts of a game and explaining why he didn’t enjoy it very much. Someone who would enjoy it could probably figure that out by actually listening to the review. People need to stop making such a big deal about the final number score as it’s just not that important.
Sounds like Cooper Island? (which is a Top 100 game for me!)
Follow up - me and my wife love this game!
@@RulebooksForYou I just played this one, and yeah, the comparison to Cooper Island feels very apt! It's a lot to figure out, but I think you can get much better after a few games and the game will feel much more rewarding still!
I didn't feel this being more restrictive than, say, Arnak. I enjoyed my 2 hours with this game at DTW and bought it after. The card/money/worker placement combo is really clever and I loved how the game comes together.
Good comment about Arnak. I always want to do more in that game! Seems the same here.
Ahh, that's a great point about Arnak. That game is really tight once you get down to it. It's always about trying to figure out a way to get 1 specific resource by doing 17 other things so you can do that one last thing you really want.
Ouch!
All it needed to make playing more enjoyable (and less punishing) was a simple rule tweak. On a single selling action, you are allowed to sell multiple goods of one type. That just freed up the money tightness and made the game easier.
At that point why not play a different game? Tightness is part of this game‘s DNA
@@elqord.1118What’s wrong with getting some use out of it (assuming they bought it already)?
Fair review Tom. It's sad that people jump all over you for a '5' which isn't even that bad a score in the first place, and after you point out all the things you liked about it, but that tightness brought your number down some. This actually sounds worse than a 5 to me, but a lot of these Euros just aren't fun or interesting, and are rarely all that heavy either, although some can be pleasant surprises.
Sounds like the game is a good game, just not for Tom. I love tight economies in games sometimes so I'm excited to play this.
A five score. This is why I’m losing faith in this channel. This is a good game.
That's great! I'm glad you enjoy it!
@@thedicetower wow you replied ok maybe I was just testing you
@@thedicetower I see what your doing killing me with kindness. It worked😀
So you only have faith in something, if it agrees with you. Lol
@@nerdyjawsh have you played the gMe
The whole theme rubs me the wrong way - of all the rich history the Salton Sea brings along with the surrounding area, let's make a game about capitalism.
Meanwhile your comforts in life have been directly derived by the success of capitalism
@@craigandrews7544 but at what price? 🖤
It's clearly an oil drilling game that someone rethemed because they were worried about offending people. And instead we got this absolutely nonsense theme that makes zero sense.
We could make the game about socialism. That way nobody wins.
yawn
We just played this last night. I own Red Cathedral and White Castle as well and Devir games seem to be getting progressively tighter. We played a 2 player game and we were pretty frustrated with how little we managed to accomplish. I like the cards but felt I had no choice but to spend them since most actions require a lot of money. Frustrating but interesting enough to try again and see if we can find a path of efficiency.
Minor correction: There's two more rows of cards than the number of players.
This is definitely a game that needed a group review
I appreciate the group reviews as well! Totally agree this one needed it. With that being said, this review reminded me of his review of Brass Birmingham. He didn’t like it, but he respected the game for what it was and understood that many would love it for some of the reasons he didn’t like it. I respect the review of Salton Sea and his opinion of it and I’m sure I’ll love it for the reasons he didn’t like it.
Wendy and/or Chris should review all heavy euros for the DT.
Why does this game need a group review and not others or all games? I'm curious to know
@@kanaestudio
Because Tom generally does not like heavy games. Wendy and Chris generally review the heavy games on the DT, so having their opinion there would be helpful
@@kanaestudioalso it was a nice change to have at least two people giving the review. That way you can hear about the game from different perspectives. For me, it was easier to come to a conclusion as to whether or not I should try/buy a game because I heard various viewpoints/angles as opposed to just one. It doesn’t matter for me if he liked the game; I’m more interested in the gameplay and the explanation of parts of the game that may be of interest
I had a similar experience with Crystal Palace. I liked almost everything about the game except that it wasnt fun, the entire game felt like punishment.
I think Tom was very clear that while he didn't enjoy the game for its tightness, that others who do enjoy that tightness, probably would like it, which is totally fair and a great review in my mind. I think too many reviewers recognize that a game is good overalll (from a technical standpoint) so they give it a higher score than they personally like it. That isn't as helpful of a review to me. So good for Tom.
My personal opinion is that this is a great game, but I can see why some wouldn't enjoy it. As far as the tightness goes, this is a game where you have to start small -- complete a small contract, sell a few brines early, etc, to get your economy going. It's so tempting to go big early with all the cool cards, but that will usually sink you and make the game even tighter.
Bruh these worker placement games are getting so stale.
This is not Tom's kind of game at all. Surprised he's the one reviewing it.
I have quite an easy time fitting the games back in the box, not sure why Tom is having issues. I LOVE that they’re putting the games in as small of boxes as possible. I’m so tired of buying a game and the box being way too big for the game.
Also, the big $5 actions aren’t a bad feature in the game, it’s a very good feature. You have to work up to them. It’s very tempting to get them immediately, but then you’re tying up all your money. Much better to float smaller currencies, like $1 and $3 cards until you build the engine that can support you tying up all your currency in the $5 cards, which you’ll use for actions.
Wow... This is now in my top 100 games of all time - love it!
This game is great, and the tightness is lovely. I think a lot of people will like it as long as they aren't expecting another White Castle (which I also enjoy for different reasons). Full disclosure, Brass and FCM are among my favorite games
At this point Tom reviewing medium-heavy Euros is about as useful as me reviewing Dungeon Crawlers. It’s sad that this review may put people off a game that is so cheap and gives you a feel of a much more expensive Euro (it definitely has Lacerda vibes, but at a fifth of the price).
Chris and Wendy should be reviewing all the heavier Euros for Dice Tower at this point.
Same for a game like Oak, not his style. Don’t solo review it..
I don't think it is about a med-heavy Euro, but rather he doesn't like tight economies: eg: he prefers Caverna to Agricola.
This is the only thing that sucks, people are going to pass up an awesome game because they just look at scores. Then again, that's kind of thier own fault too...
That is a ridiculously low score.
He did not have fun. He said that it was his opinion and yours may vary. I felt the same way. Brutally punishing games are not for everyone.
I'll wait for Wendy or Chris's review on this one. Tom is not a fan of heavy euros.
@@PwndNewbie What does BRUTALLY PUNISHING even mean? Tough decisions and trade offs? Would you say the same about Food Chain Magnate? Would Tom rate that game a 5/10 as well? This game here is mechanically super sound, connects its various parts well and at 3-4 players really requires you to PLAY WELL and MAKE TOUGH DECISIONS. I understand that can be very difficult for some but that doesn't make this a 5/10 (which honestly makes it sound like the game is shite)
He rated FCM a 4 i believe btw @elqord.1118
@@LordNovaPrime1 tells you all you need to know
Ridiculous for Tom to review heavy games like this
Everyone losing their minds over the score lol its just an opinion!
Did you feel the same way about their other recent game white castle? its how me and my friend felt...we just couldnt seem to accomplish anything.
You can definitely accomplish a lot on white castle, although in some games combos can be harder to calculate/find than others depending on the cards and tokens on the board.
Maybe you just got a very bad combination whenever you tried the game.
@@nicolascastelli4439 possibly and possibly we sucked at it. We only played once but felt a bit turned off by the feeling of spending so many dead turns just trying to setup for a large turn that turned out to not be that large.
As a former CA resident who has been to and heard a lot about the Salton Sea - it is smelly and full of chemical runoff from local farms. It was accidentally created by a breach of a new irrigation system in 1905 that filled an ancient salt lake basin that has taken about 120 years to dry up, creating an environmental crisis due to the toxic dust layer being exposed. Apparently this game has slapped a happy face on the subject. Hard pass!
I'm 100% on the same page as Tom here. It's a fascinating set of mechanisms, but the margins on the basic actions basically work out to $0 and you REALLY need to monopolize the science and money actions to get any kind of surplus.
Why isn't this a (group)studio review... it s not that there are many games coming out...
I played this and hated it as well
what did you expect?
I'll play it soon, but I'd like to say that what you didn't like is actually what I love about some games, especially economical games. I understand your point of view, but I can't see it as a negative thing. Your comment made me even more interested in playing Salton Sea now! 😂 I loved White Castle, which brings me that same sense of challenge in accomplishing what was planned. However, one thing really caught my attention in this game, the extremely complicated thematic approach, to say the least. Not only for bringing a clear propagandist bias, promoting geothermal energy as the new panacea, something it is not, as well as for disregarding the negative impacts of the activity on the Salton Sea itself! But that's okay, I think it's possible to enjoy the game without losing sight of the criticism.
What a lovely box for such an unlovely sea.
What’s wrong with the sea?
@@craigandrews7544 too salty
@@seansteel328 😂 the salt is real with this one
This is one ugly and unappealingly themed game!
Woah! I didn't know they made a game about the Salton Sea. Too bad it's bad I guess, it's a really cool theme🥲 maybe I'll try it one day still
Its not a bad game at all, in fact if your style of board game is tight economic games its amazing
SU&SD didnt like Wingspan, Tom didnt like Brass. and i think Dune imperium is better than uprising. its all really about your type of game, sometimes i like my games to be tight like agricola and sometimes i want to play a sandboxy game like Feast for Odin and i feel like i might like this game once i played it also its compacted but im not sure about the theme yet :)