They Said It Was Impossible, until this evidence... | Fiordland Moose Documentary
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- Опубліковано 23 гру 2023
- They Said It Was Impossible, until this evidence... Could the Fiordland Moose still be out in the wilderness of New Zealand?
Big thank you to Ken Tustin for this interview and insight in to a fascinating subject
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If you want to catch Ken talking about other stuff, please check out this great podcast by KiwiTales - ua-cam.com/video/73IZKnRSOK0/v-deo.html&t
Awesome little listen. Was awesome to hear Max Curtis being mentioned. He's my wife's grandfather and was a massive massive part of game hunting in New Zealand and an avid wildlife photographer who took some amazing pictures of some of New Zealands most elusive wildlife. Thanks for all your contributions Max
Awesome, I love all Maxs books👍
The red deer mob in your video is not in New Zealand ( bird life is wrong )
In the mid sixties ( some where between 1963 and 1970 ) my uncle and his mates were fishing for bluefin tuna off Fiordland . They were sheltering in one of the sounds when they came across a fishing boat with what appeared to be a horse hanging from the rigging , on closer inspection this was recognised as a Moose .The fishermen had shot it when it was swimming across the fiord , and were using it for crayfish bait . They did a swap for some Tuna . My uncle and his mates were very experienced deer stalkers and said the moose was better eating than any red deer . My Nephew's father-in-law has a cast NZ moose antler in his shed , he found it in a woolshed on a station he was working on as a young man , no one could tell him where it came from or anything about it , so he kept it . I am the guy who recognised the antlers found in an Auckland second hand shop for what they were , and persuaded the owner to get them to Ken , who I believe has them . Good Video , we need more like this .
Red deer mob? What part of the video?
@Arnie-fn6ss The first time it starts about 4.37
@@duncnz9128you’re correct- you can see a few jackdaws- also that was taken in Richmond park I believe- been there enough to recognise those gates. 😂
Edit- showed it to my brother and his immediate reaction was “definitely Richmond”- he’s taken some amazing photos there. This red deer are the European variety which were introduced to a few parks in the UK- the Scottish red deer, the British subspecies is slightly smaller.
@@Revelationscreation In NZ the Scottish type grew as big as the English park sourced ones (which some had continental bloodlines). On better feed they grew well.
Feed is the limiting factor now, although interestingly at a recent gathering of some the commercial hunting remnants the topic of deer size was raised and many thought as well as high numbers some of the biggest stags are out there now.
@@johnmead8437 cool, thanks.
Awesome video, never knew about Moose being in NZ!
Thanks for Posting this Video an doing the time with Ken Tustin. i believe i had an encounter with Ken back in late 2000s on a small plane to Invercargil , i was reading a hunting book an he? asked me "If I knew There was Moose in NZ"..... as a younger fella, i rediculed it....... Now all these years later with a Passion or Interest in the Fiordland Wapiti era, its become obvious, Moose resided in NZ. Hope he finds one.............
Great interview Cookie and thank you Ken for sharing all of your work.
Those old deer cullers were a willy bunch, they wouldn't tell you much if anything. Great doco!
I used to work with someone in 2015 that swore black and blue that he has seen a moose in the area they were shot in the 50's in 2000......he was bush hunting and tracking movement thru his scope across a creek and got a good look at it, didn't shoot it as he was too astonished at first and once he got his shit together again figured shooting wouldn't be a good idea with the tiny numbers that there must be, altho he did admit that having a .222 in his hands at the time 'may' have played a part in that decision ......he didn't report it as the last time he had heard of someone doing that in the 80's DOC had sent in teams of cullers to exterminate the 'last of the moose', altho thankfully without anything success.
Since DoC never considered sending anyone in to hunt moose, his story is probably more bull than moose, as are 90%+.
@@johnmead8437 Doc has twice to my knowledge sent teams in to investigate and if possible shoot moose following reported sightings, once in the 90's and once in mid 2000's, the one in the mid 2000's was after someone made public film of moose foot prints still filling with water in wet jacket arm
@@unhippy1 Ken might be part of that conspiracy then given he didn't mention such convincing information. Maybe the observers mistook thylacine or bigfoot prints?? Reality has its downside, perhaps the stork shook the baby a bit too hard.
Although that may be cynical, the relevant DoC records would induce an apology for being a bit "sceptical".
Loved listening to that. And don't you just admire somebody who is so passionate about their subject. I would like to source a copy of his book. And most of all... I hope and pray he gets to see an NZ moose in the flesh before his time is up.
Thanks for another awesome video👏👏
Until I see a picture I am sort of abit of an unbeliever…. But the Milford is a massive area. And I still believe there’s a massive chance a small group is there.., that’s a big if… but I am still on the line.. well done Ken. You have huge respect for all your research 💪💪
Awesome episode cookie. I watched a little bit about the new zealand moose with forrest galante.
This is a full documentary well done mate.
Really professional and its fair to say you are the next David Attenborough.
If you ever want to see a european elk go to the Netherlands we have them in such an huge enclosure they dont have to be fed.
If you go have a fan meeting.
I've skipped to see if it was good.
Today I'll listen it at work as a sort of Christmas present for me.
Yay, a Christmas Cookie!
Great interview Cookie, you managed to get enough adverts into the doco though 😂
1 question I would have asked him would be, if moose are found there would he intervene or just let the final ones die off?
Such a brilliant episode
Merry Christmas
They been looking for the "little scrub moa" as well
Yea heard a few ideas about them being down south, sadly probably far from reality. But love to see a video on this channel about this
Great doco. Now do Moa - thanks
..in Canada, apparently our swamp donkeys' digestive system adapts to poorer quality woody browse in our cold Winters...then they eat a lot of aquatic plants during the Summer....I'd be looking for them around bogs...
He comes across as so knowledgeable. 100 percent they are there I'm guessing 8 to 10 individuals
Amazing video! Seriously you need to get out there with the floppy haired teenager and get proper photo evidence! Happy Christmas! 🌲🌲🌲🥳🥳🥳
The cast antler shown does not appear to be recent, much of the damage seems to be decay, not just nibbling by other animals. Having seen an antler embedded in a growing ponga tree fern of a size probably 10 years old, and other antler piles from well over a decade before, it is clear they don't all disappear quickly.
It seems sometimes bone survives for a long time even in very wet conditions. A probably extreme example being a moa skeleton discovered on top of old landslide debris up the Haast River when the original track was being put in (that's the story anyway). Which suggests either moa survived a few hundred years later than recorded, or the bones somehow did or a combination of both, moa possibly survived until about when Europeans arrived in the late 1700s-early 1800s, persisting like moose?.
It’s hard to believe that just 100 years ago anyone associated with animals on any level would think that introducing foreign animals into a closed ecosystem would be a good idea.
Great video, all you need to do is find a big cat in New Zealand now
Some of the records have different interpretations, including the photos and latest sighting description. They are very possibly red deer. The arguments for the moose photos have parallels with some big cat photos. Why have more photos not been obtained (despite the problems of trail cameras)
The technology exists to greatly increase detection likelihood, & is relatively straightforward.
Some red deer appear very dark when wet, they can be bulky, and having had a stag do moose browse in the garden gave rise to questioning the "moose" browse photos interpretation accuracy. The recent sighting description gives no absolute confidence either, reds can have the characteristic described. And it does need querying why no helicopter hunters saw them, the place got a work over.
Despite those factors the overall information collected makes their presence until recently at least credible.
The animals all look overly small probably from lack of suitable food
IMO the diminishing viable future of moose 'hunting' in NZ is likely to be in satellite or drone technology. Drones MIGHT be illegal unless DoC permission given?
Even on Google Earth Satellite mode you can find shapes that tally with the size and vague shape of a moose in clearings. One even looked like it might have antlers of the exact size of a large adult. But I'd be accused of pareidolia if I put even the most possible one up on YT. Not sure of copyright issues with Google Earth as such either(?).
Great vid Cookie! Interesting character with obvious local knowledge etc.
A swimming moose might be the most determinable re satellite finds.
Great video mate it would be nice if they could bring another like 20 moose or so to keep the population up then they won't end up going extinct
Why though, they are not native. It’s better to put more effort into conserving native wild life.
Australia has rabbits foxes camels. Cane toads and plenty other imported animals that distroy every thing .if anyone won'ts to hunt any thing buy the thousand
Short story long hope you had a good day out
Evolution doesn't 'design' anything it is a gradual process of adjustment, refinement or failure over time.
Agreed, and it’s also not perfect.
Fun fact: moose often hqve twins
For animals to have litters they usually need good food supply. Moose have been out-competed by the reds
More likely then big cats in England. Omnivores and herbivores tend to find it easier to adapt and are therefore more successfully introduced.
Though New Zealand is slightly different, climate is somewhat similar to Northern Europe- perhaps that is why weasels and stoats have had so much success in NZ.
Big cats would have no problems establishing in Britain. There is another reason they are not regularly detected positively. Incidentally probably affects some of the moose records.
@@johnmead8437 don’t agree at all, climate, population of prey etc is extremely low compared to their natural habitats. Lynx possibly, however I do not consider a lynx a big cat.
Also records are skewd, we’ve had reportage of panthers (melanistic leopards/jaguars) and low reports of non-melanistic leopards and jaguars… it’s a rare genetic mutation, the overload of reports of these types suggest that the reports are not credible.
Also there’s no proof, no skeleton proof, no ravaged prey, no actual photos, no track markings, no poo samples…
Also to negate another criticism- a handful of camera traps were set in areas of the atlas mountain range- and evidence of a singular leopard was found… this area is far more expansively wild then any area in the UK. It is also got great habitat and the correct sort of climate for leopards.
@@Revelationscreation Leopards (& to some extent pumas) are highly adaptable. The former would have plenty of prey in Britain, it's loaded with deer etc, small game & birds, livestock & pets, all delicious. The reason they are not detected regularly is they aren't there or in single digit non breeding numbers. And those making the reports are either mistaken deluded or dishonest, mabe a combination. Apart from the melanistic factor, they leave a few really distinctive signs of presence (including dog remnants after dinner) which would be unmistakable. And they are easy to camera trap, relatively.
So yes, they aren't there.
The country moose may be in NZ is very different, it's rough. Tustin is serious dissuading cookie from doing an expedition, although it would be an experience, unless needing rescuing, a very real prospect without competent company.
@@johnmead8437 there is a minimum sustainable population required for the population to persist- single digits spread over a large area would not be enough for a population to exist long term. Also you can see by looking at range maps that their populations become far more scarce the more north you go in Asia… England compared to southern Russia and northern China we have far less prey availability- there’s no chance of any population in the Uk- any that appear are going to be recent escapes.
Also jaguars are not highly adaptable a leopards are but different subspecies, ie northern races would find it much easier to live in English climates a however most of our zoo populations are not of the northern races.
whats a chamwah
chamois pronounced shammy
It is a small antelope from Austria released in Franz Josef NZ. They. Like bluffs for safety.
Rupicapra rupicapra, alpine European antelope. The one shown with the striped face and hooked horns.
@@nathanflintoft664pronounced sham-wa
Purely mathematically how many do you need for them to survive?
The inbreeding gotta be intense...
There’s something called the 50/500 rule that says 50 is the minimum number to avoid inbreeding and 500 to avoid genetic drift.
@@MrBlue-dm5li NZ's red deer (& other species) should have been in deep trouble then. Instead they produced some of the best specimens in the world until eating their habitat bare. Theory vs reality, although the theory is very important when dealing with endangered species.
@@johnmead8437 They could be deeply inbred and still survive quite well and repopulate. Heterogeneity is great over vast periods of time, but over years and centuries inbreeding does not necessarily mean extinction.
NOPE i personally HATE all hunters,,,Sad world we live in and i wont watch this videa due the fact its seemingly promoting hunting
You could hunt with a camera, as we do. That's fun 😊
No one asked for your opinion c^nt.
@@py7493 Probably because hunters, in that country, have to be super fit and tough as nuts. They probably embarrass him.
Well Nature loves hunters, and her greatest invention is predation. Perhaps you should hate the opposite of hunting, the great destroyed of life: commercial agriculture!
@@Agnemons shapumalwildcatt2800's handle is from two notable hunting species! You can't make this stuff up, what are they teaching in school these days? Oh I know Walt Disney = biology! Not to mention it was hunter's dollars that brought the moose into NZ in the first place. Now DOC wants to rid the rivers and lakes of rainbow and brown trout!