Smart Meters, Nitric Acid and Microscopes
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- Опубліковано 11 січ 2024
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It would be nice to mention that fumes of nitric acid are toxic and you at least need a respirator or ideally a fumehood
Thanks, I mention that HEAVILY on my Patreon post for those who plan to attempt it. This is entertainment and life has enough warnings.
Ger some glycogen and sulfuric acid and you have magic
Bro if you see the smoke and universal skull symbol and still inhale it...
A garage setup like that seeme super dangerous. Even explosions and fire seems scared of the stuff.
I've had acids that can absolutely wreak havoc on anything...... Even some fairly resilient ferritic stainless alloys. Even when you think it's stored properly..... I cannot tell you the nightmares I've had in my shop and lab back before I knew better.
A precision machine shop is not the place you want to have corrosion fumes wafting through the air. Literally overnight rust within the matter of a few hours on EVERYTHING. I thought I was going to puke when I realized what happened
You can tell that so much effort, expense and time has gone into this 15-minute piece. Just brilliant!
+1
Facts. So we’ll done.
I've never used acids to remove the package.
But I have used an engraving laser to vaporize the package off a few nanos per pass until the silicon is exposed. When done carefully, it even exposes intact contents of NVRAM cells. I think these bits could be optically scanned and their data digitally reconstructed (with better equipment than I have, lol).
The method might be useful for forensic data recovery from failed flash drives.
I made many of the round parts on your microscope workstation @ 6:14 . I worked at MM in the 90s. In all my random viewing of microchip related content, this is the first time I've seen one anywhere outside the factory.
It was a lot of fun using it when I was with John McMaster, we can finally afford to buy them on eBay! 😀
Having done some of this in the past for a passive RFID system I am blown away at your production quality and documentation of this process. Major kudos.
Thanks! I really want to make this stuff appeal to a wider audience. I think more people would jump in and experiment if they saw how much fun we have!
I agree. I helped design smart meters for decades and very few of our engineers and technicians were as careful and thorough as our host.
@@RECESSIM - some of us realize we are better off just being voyeurs ;)
You got a full time student..! Thanks from 🇮🇪
45 seconds in and I just remembered how much I love this channel.
As someone who works on test /metrology equipment full time.....nothing excites me more that DIY test gear, metrology equipment and/or photonics lab stuff.
There's such a need for more content like this. And I hope to see more!
Also....for test gear and laser/photonics diy stuff....check out "les's lab" youtube channel.
Some of the greatest diy stuff on UA-cam. Making really exotic high profile experiments attainable to the home lab. And at a very high/refined level
Yea, lots of great research papers and open source projects I’ve seen that need to be publicized more so people realize it’s attainable. Thanks for commenting
I saw his Bayer filter removal video, it was EPIC! Like you said, he makes some amazing stuff at home.
@@RECESSIM that's exactly the project I had in mind and thought you would find it especially interesting
I really enjoyed this video! It's relieving to see other metrology nerd haha!
If this video was 10 hours long, I would have cleared my day to watch it. Excellent video.
It was going to be 20 but I trimmed to 16… Next time I’ll extent to 60 😁
@@RECESSIM Excellent, I will be awaiting the notification! I should add, this video reminds me of the 00's when, when tv card hackers were sampling signals from wires of tv cards to get access to the chip and to break the encryption of the tv cards.
One day I will have a shop like you have. All the learning, set up, tooling, crafting, Building, and experimenting looks like so much fun.
It’s a blast! Thanks a lot for watching
He's back at what he does best.... ❤
Excellent work. This is all great info, and making your own acid is impressive. You sir are in need of a small mill. Milling caps off of components precisely (without needing to use that hacksaw) is worth its weight in gold.
Sounds like I know what I need to show in my next video… 🙃
And maybe a cheapish fiber laser while you're at it
@@RECESSIMA Bridgeport knee mill or just “Bridgeport” will be something to do exactly what you want to do. Think of it as a really badass drill press. These mills have been around for a long ass time and are available in analog or CNC versions (analog can be upgraded to CNC if needed) and are capable of doing just about any sort of milling or machining work imaginable.
There are tons of different tool pieces and accessories out there for them but to just pop the caps and lids off of electronics parts I would say you wouldn’t need much variety in tooling bits. One useful bit would be an end mill. End mill bits are a multi fluted bit with a flat end on it designed for precise, flat material removal. The end mill bits come in sizes as small as 0.005” and as large as 1.25” diameter so if you decided that the end mill bit was a good choice it is available in a wide range of sizes.
Thanks for all the awesome content! I hadn’t been in your channel for a little while and all the sudden found your “Dr. Frankenstein” deep dive home rev-engineering lab. Within 20 seconds or so of the footage rolling I noticed that I left my jaw on the floor and needed it put back where it belongs. Lol
Keep it up bro! You’re inspiring me to dig into some refrigeration controllers and boards I have with every new video you put out. Doubtful I would need to go to the extent of acid burning caps off of SOC’s or anything like that as most of the interesting stuff looks to have JTAG pads. The main controller boards normally use RS-485 MODBUS or RS-232 network communication to other remote mounted I/O boards, etc.
Anyway, keep it up and keep it safe! We need more videos showing successful experiments from your garage lab!! 👍
@@orlandotech thanks for the comment and suggestions! I have a small Taig CNC mill that I need to use more, perhaps in an upcoming video?? 🤔
@@RECESSIM hells ya! I’m sure for certain “targets” (victims) it might be beneficial to use the mill vs the acid technique. I will admit tho, the acid technique is one wicked way of getting someone’s attention, it’s pretty eye catching. I found out after digging into the video and noticing the increase in production quality that you have really been working dialing that in. Well at least thats my opinion. I noticed right away that you have been refining and tweaking things for the better (I enjoyed older video releases too so don’t get me wrong).
So ya, I don’t mind trying to help someone out by posting up pointers or tips to make things better if I know something that can actually help. It’s the only convenient option to use at the moment. 😁
Can’t wait for the next one!
I’m digging around on your Patreon page rn as I’ve been toying around with the idea of supporting the YT creators that I get a lot of really solid info or entertainment from on a regular basis. I just hate subscriptions of any kind as I tend to forget about them. So once I get over that issue I’ll prob pull the trigger. Lol
Stay safe Hash!
when i thought this couldnt get any better i find this.... mind blown. Love watching what you come up with as its a deep dive on things i had been thinking about for a along time. Keep up the awesome work its inspiring the next generation!
Thanks a lot! Really glad you enjoyed it
Pure, unstoppable curiosity.. you sir are a true example of not giving up and not making excuses - respect!
I have really missed this channel! glad to see you back in a great way!
Your videos, the production quality and content is of a very high standard. I just wanted to say this. You deserve way more subscribers and views. Thanks man.
Glad you like it! Means a lot hearing that after all the work that goes into it
Great video Hash! it's nice to see some smart meter stuff again. I enjoy the RE News videos but really like to see you doing your own thing.
An absolute delight to watch. I really appreciate the time and effort you put into your videos. Thank you.
Holy crap. This is now my favourite video from you.
Your content is so cool! ...and inspirational! Ive collected most of the parts but still have to work on a project you presented a while ago about looking through plastic encased chips with infrared light. Im retired, but slow as a turtle. I'll get there - the journey is half the fun. Thank you for what you do (even if i shy away from working with acid!)
This is the best channel on UA-cam, no competition
Can't wait until next time. Your videos are not only getting more interesting but also more entertaining 👍
Such an awesome video. A lot of care has been put to this video making. Many thabks for sharing
I’m speechless as to the incredible level of intelligence you possess.
You’re the real character from the movie paycheck with Ben Affleck where he reverse engineers products for a company.
So cool!!!
Glad you enjoyed it, that’s a great movie BTW!
You did a fantastic job on this - nice work!!!
Thank you very much! Glad you enjoyed it
I don't say this often, but this is really good video. Content, production, sound and video quality, everything, even some humor.
Thanks! Glad you enjoyed it and appreciate the work that went into it
You earned yourself a sub, this video was thouroughly enjoyable for a manufacturing nerd like me!
I get excited when I see a new video from RECESSIM!
What a high quality video.. It's getting better and better 😛
Great video. Very informative, Bravo on a job well done.
This must be the coolest video on the whole youtube!
Thanking you from England
Stunning, nicely done.
Well, I have pulled a lot of things apart, but this is on another level. A much deeper one!
Noooooo, I just tapped the screen to see how much time was left because I was enjoying this video so much & it stopped as soon as I did. I really needed the 40 minute version. Man what great content as usual. Home run
Thanks! I wanted a GREAT 16 mins vs a Good 25 😀
well you knocked it out of the park!@@RECESSIM
dude, this is some legit incredible content!! congrats
Thanks man!
Dude this is killer!! Really makes this feel achievable at home
Absolutely!
that was one wild ride. i did not expect a video so interesting :D
My biggest takeaway is that i also need an oscilliscope watch 😁
You only live once, would be a shame to die without one on your wrist 😁
Wow. I have a new favorite channel!
😱noooooooo. That was way to exciting to leave it open ended like this.
liked and subscribed 😀
You sir, are my hero!
Please do more videos and bring back weekly news. You can easily make a living off of UA-cam. Today's video format is super food for growing your channel and ou're perfect for it!.
That’s the plan! Just wanted to work on video quality a bit over the holidays. Thanks for watching!
Thank you.
Great video!
Dope episode!
The best "Do It YOURSELF" videos always tell you to "NOT do it YOURSELF". I will totally not do this myself.
really cool video m8. i had no idea you had all this equipment and skills lol :)
you have a better lab than most security firms.
This is really cool.
Is gold, still as precious as this video?
X
The lathe spinning up got me 😂
you got my sub for reverse engineering and fuming nitric acid
Oh my god this is all I ever want in my youtube feed
OMG MOAR!!!
super cool I LOVE it .
I've had acids that can absolutely wreak havoc on anything...... Even some fairly resilient ferritic stainless alloys. Even when you think it's stored properly..... I cannot tell you the nightmares I've had in my shop and lab back before I knew better.
A precision machine shop is not the place you want to have corrosion fumes wafting through the air. Literally overnight rust within the matter of a few hours on EVERYTHING. I thought I was going to puke when I realized what happened
Agreed, storage is the worst part.
really, top content!!!
love ur vids!
5:40
Teach a man to make fire, and he'll have fire for the night.....
but set a man on fire, and he'll have fire for the rest of his life. 😁
Boy, i hate cliffgangers, but i loved the video and your style:) thanks for making these!
This is why youre the best!
I love this channel🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆
With those tamper resistant devices it really helps to have a high res. Inspection xray device. It is amazing what security mechanisms can a bunch of motivated nerdy idiots come up with:) been on both sides design/analysis it is always fun:) just the financial guys can spoil the fun, but on the othes side makes the challenge real:)
I might be mowing your lawn right after you did but i would sand down most of the epoxy before using the acid
Most people usually do, or laser it off. I found I only need a very small amount of nitric acid even when I don’t sand it though. But if I was doing this at an industrial scale it would save a lot of money in wasted acid I’m sure
i'd like to complement you on your workshop and thank you for making these interesting videos.
Thanks a lot for the compliment!
Christopher Tarnovsky would be proud.
Love his work and talks at Hardwear.io. I could listen to him speak about reverse engineering silicon for hours!
Teach a man to fish and the ATF starts getting worried about the amount of nades the guy is fishing with 🍍
Did you upgrade your camera or lens setup? Some of these shots are seriously incredible!
I just spent time learning how to use what I have, glad you like them! I felt I needed to up my game a bit instead of pumping out more videos. Now they can ALL be better!
I was wondering what happened to you. Now I see. You've been busy 😄
Awesome work. 👍 Don't breathe-in the fumes people - that sh!t's toxic 😉
Nitric Acid and Yellow Snow... Use caution around both 😀
It would be great if there was a tutorial somewhere on how we can use these pictures to practically reverse engineer a chip. Many people focus on getting the pictures, but what can you actaully do with them? I know Ken Shiriff has a lot of writeups on his reverse engineering endeavours, but I am not aware of ay guide to learn to actually do this. Plus, are there different RE methods, depending on the family, or decade that the IC was designed?
Everything in this video screems quality in a way reminiscent to secret state funded black-ops operations do! :) It will be a travesty if this channel doesn't end with atleast 20 million subs!
First time watching this channel, wait, is that a juicy carrot I see, and down the rabbit hole I go, congratulations sir! You got me.
Wow, really cool video. Great work!
That Faraday cage/box, with the gloves and window, did you build it yourself, or can it be bought? I think they are called investigation-boxes, but unsure.
I got mine used from eBay and replaced the RF gaskets around the lid. Much cheaper that way. Search for “Ramsey RF” there.
Its been a few years since ive priced HNO3, but the price for fuming nitric acid around 90% concentration should be at least half what was shown here. That's still pricey and why many chemists make their own, but that's a crazy mark up. So the price tells me that its risen recently across the whole market, and that particular suppier probably prefers to deal with bulk orders for industrial applications.
Plus very few chem suppliers even list SO3 as a product let alone a suggested item, so i think you this place had soecial pricing.
Shipping it is also quite challenging, freight-only from what I’ve heard which also adds to the cost.
THAT was the scene you chose from Swordfish :O
😂
Love your Videos , and i do miss Reverse Engineering News. Are you planning to bring it back?
Yea, only took a break over the holidays so I could improve my video skills and visit with family. Reverse Engineering News will be back soon!
@@RECESSIM cool editing btw.
And looking forward to upcoming Reverse Engineering News
You should do a video on the HackRF+PortaPack
I haven’t played with mine in a while, I should see if they’ve added anything new to it recently.
@@RECESSIM I'm one of the lead devs on it. We have added a ton of stuff. If you join the Discord I can show you through all the updates
I joined the Discord, message me there
instant subscribe
Personal opinion, but, your narration style is 'magnificent', and as for the overall production quality, that's an A* .
bro can reverse engineer god
impressive
6:32 you and me both 😂
You're basically the NileRed of hardware hacking haha
"By the power of buying a second one!"
amazing
⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️
Excellent video
Super cool video!!!!! I have to know what your job title is!!
Chief Acid Maker 😁
More please Hash 😅
Another excellent video, do you have a favourite movie list ?
I'm assuming the sphere in the vibration sensor isn't ferritic?
hey, those are engineered in my hometown!
epic episode
I'm making it a point never to do a day spar with you, as the preceding bath of acid is a deal breaker for any friendship :-)
Maybe just a splash… 😁
Did you try the method of de-capping that Curiousmarc posted a while ago? You just heat the chip until the epoxy gets soft, then you use 2 pliers and bend the chip, and the die comes out of the epoxy - no acid required, and a lot cleaner overall.
Yea, I like this method because the part will still function afterwards. But if all you want to do is look at the silicon, heating it is a great way. Takes a bit of practice and an open space for the epoxy fumes.
@@RECESSIM Yeah, heating and bending isn't going to preserve the bond wires, but if you're just looking for ID marks on the silicon, it's a quick mess free way to go. Heat also doesn't work too good on ceramic packages 😛. I've been meaning to try the heat and bend method on any old chips I have laying around - especially large chips like chipsets on old motherboards. I imagine the chance of cracking the die goes up significantly as the die size gets bigger, and in that case, it'd be back to nitric acid again
Did they eliminate the acid sellers to cut back on those acid attacks out in Asia? I thought I recalled hearing about that in the past.
I might see if I can find out why, that seems like a plausible reason.
Would that little ball in the vibration sensor happen to be a paramagnetic material?
Not sure, I took a look at the datasheet for that part (or very similar) but they don’t mention any details like that. Great question though, never heard of paramagnetic material before.
www.mouser.com/datasheet/2/209/joytech_06262018_RBS310912T-12_en-1374914.pdf
You think you can shield it so it doesnt send any information over the antenna?
Definitely, but the power company will know and pay you a visit to troubleshoot the issue
a llittle dissapointed that the chip whisperer or other non destructive tools for hardware analysis (forgot the name of recent logic analyer style toy that probes all pins and logs data from all at once to determine likely usage of each, and references database to give probable chip).. that should be used before decapping weren't mentioned
I was already 99% sure this was some kind of analog chip so I went the decapping route.
Generally though I experiment in random directions. I might decap at the same time as trying a chipwhisperer on an unknown part just to see what ideas I might get along the way.
Thanks for commenting!
Go figure. 30 years ago we used nitric acid for decaping PCBs. We were 10-12yo in electronics children's club. FF to today and said acid is next to unobtainable. Apparently something about glycerin; Edison played with it in his youth. Vaguely remember that I was aware of the possibility even then but the better of me prevailed
Soooo what did you tell the power company when they asked what happened to your meter? =P
He was clever enough to not use the one on his house, and instead bought some online to tinker with.