The foreign sale of the F-20 was put in the hands of the Air Force. The Air Force had a vested interest in selling the F-16 as they were already ordering it for themselves and additional sales would drive the unit cost down. The result was that they didn't really try to get foreign allies to buy the F-20. Such a shame. Today I would like to see the F-20 built as an unmanned platform. It could be built in vast numbers at a fraction of the unit cost of the F-35 and less than 1/10 of the operating cost. It could even be sacrificed on penetration missions and flown into the target or used to shield the accompanying manned aircraft from SAM fire. Often numbers count more than stealthy designs, especially with modern radars.
I flew the F-5 extensively in an aggressor role. Based on that experience, I would call the F-20 a very capable airframe that could find a place even on today's battlefields. Additionally, I don't think a handsomer jet fighter has ever been built.
Hi, do you think nowadays a modernised version of f-20 with up to date engine, avionics and weapons, with composite body materials could be a good and cheap solution for countries like ukraine, greece, georgia, bulgaria, etc, facing outdated threats like sukhoys and migs ?
I wonder though...was there some nagging, subconscious thing going on in people's mind that made them believe the F-20 was soon to be outdated tech, since it was so closely related to the aging F-5? That was always my take. Shiny new F-16 tech, over older F-5 morphed into F-20 tech? I believe anyone think that would be wrong. I personally think many of our Allies could have benefited from the F-20, from Taiwan, to Japan, to Israel, to Germany, to Canada, to Australia. All of these countries, and more, could have made great use of this amazing aircraft.
@Sean Price I think the idea is that the F-20 was new tech based on old tech...instead of completely reinventing the wheel...which is more costly. The F-20 was, as I recall, going to be significantly cheaper than the F-15, F16, or F-18. It is an interceptor and filled that role better than those other two. It had an insane climb rate as I recall. Now, while it likely wasn't going to be carrying 10 long range missiles, I do think it could have carried 4 to 6 AIM-7s, and later the AMRAAM missiles. These could have been backed up by a heavier aircraft, capable of carrying a much higher payload, at the price of slower time t get on station.
The jf17 is the f20 so democrats refused taiwan f20 tech and china got it for free like it has trillions of $ worth of tech. If taiwan got the f20 they would produce over 300 in more than 3 gens.
The F-20 would’ve been great today for point-defense, homeland security missions that doesn’t require stealth. Like the YF-23, Northrop Grumman have this habit of developing outstanding fighters, yet lack the lobbyist ground support to get them into production.
If we got the YF-23 and F-20, the entire US airwing will almost be entirely Northrop Grumman/McDonald Douglas aircraft. I think the issue has more to do with the B-2 bomber and Northrop's failures during this time period.
@@KevinSmith-qi5yn - The YF-23 was the second time Northorp Grumman got screwed by General Dynamics (by then Lockheed Martin). Besides better political maneuvering by Lockheed Martin, I believe another reason why the YF-23 lost to the YF-22 was the YF-23 was too revolutionary in its desigen. Northrop basically brought a Gen 5.5 jet to a contest for a Gen 5 jet.
DCL 308 well that’s a horrible way to look at it. The YF-22 was more maneuverable, agile, and was lighter. The YF-22 has a greater weapons payload and better modularity for system upgrades down the road. The YF-23 was only marginally more stealthy and faster and it’s short comings were too much to overcome at the time. There were already many system issues that Lockheed had already solved and Northrop was months or even years behind in some aspects. Not only that, but the complete shitshow that the B-2 program became made the decision clear between the two.
@@calebemerson9317 everything you said contradicts everything Paul Metz said about both aircraft. Paul Metz is the only pilot to fly both the 22 and 23. He also stated the only envelope the 22 proved better than the 23 was the post stall due to the 22 having thrust vectoring. Post stall speeds are typically air show speeds. Anything above that the 23 had the edge. It was faster and had better stealth. Paul said "it could perform any angle of attack, even backwards". You can also notice that LM completely redesigned the 22 after they got the contract. More than likely making up for its short comings. Everyone acts like thrust vectoring is the end all be all. The 22 TVC only aids in pitch. It's only 2 dimensional. Typically as soon as someone gets slow enough to use the TVC it's a last ditch effort and they typically get killed any by non TVC aircraft.
So what did the engines sound like?? I'm sad that the only one still around is the one here in Cali at the Science center and we'll never get to hear her start up or fly.
No matter how many times I watch these videos about the F5 and the F20 I never get tired of them. I just love the F5 series of fighter jets. I hope that they could be modernized and brought back to service.
Brazil has some incredible F5's. Fully modernized. The cockpit looks just like an fa18 hornet cockpit. Just like the cockpit in this video halfway through.
My dad worked for Northrop towards the tail end of the Tigershark's life. I remember going to a family picnic at Northrop when I was like 9. They had a video presentation of the Tigershark blowing stuff up. I became a huge fan of this jet. Then it was gone.
I can still remember the print ads for the F20 in magazines in the early 80s, I think they featured Chuck Yeager. A brilliant plane shot down by politics and corporate skullduggery. Beautiful lines, and as the videos show, enough power to weight thrust to make the tail whip as it screams down the runway on its takeoff roll. Like the Blackbird yawing slightly from the power of its twin J58s on takeoff . A real shame she never got greenlit, mass produced, even if only exported.
I remember that at that time Grumman offered PAF to select F-20 instead of F-16 and in return complete production line of F-20 would be shifted to Pakistan. But PAF selected F-16 as USAF was in favor of F-16. In 1986 China signed an agreement with Grumman to modernize its fleet of J-7 fighters under the so-called "Super-7" upgrade, but this agreement was cancelled in early 1990, in the wake of political relations with the West, but by that time engineering blue prints of F-20 were shared with Chengdu Aircraft Corporation [CAC]. That's why JF-17 air frame is much similar to F-20, while engine and avionics are based on what ever is available in the market at the moment.
Jimmy the peanut farmer hated Taiwan. He was the one that pulled American Embassy in Taipei out in 1979. Taiwan had F-5E and F-5F as main stable fighter against Chines PLAAF. MiG 21 was their most advanced fighter. Most incursion occurred was their more outdated Mig 19. F-5E was more than adequate. Taiwan and Northrop had cooperated and for many years. Taiwanese was more than willing to take F5G. Chuck Yeager was the legend that endorsed the F20. It’s a shame that USAF passed on it. Taiwan was prevented from buying it. Most fighter pilots were trained on T38. Guess what, very similar air frame, built by Northrop.
I would imagine that Carter had no choice but to close the Embassy in 1979, considering that is the year that they opened up China. Everything to do with Kissinger, Bush, & globalism... and nothing to do with 'the peanut farmer's hate' of Taiwan.
@@PilotPhotog just for some extra info here I have seen some internet rumor as it that some of the t20 tech (mostly the electronic parts) were pass on to Taiwan which they then used to create the f-ck-1 fighter.
I was working that airshow. Wasn't that the same show where it was very windy and the first plane did a barrel roll on takeoff and crashed into the chapel? The pilots wife was 9 months pregnant.
The F-20 holds a rare distinction: it is one of the only fighter aircraft capable of inducing instantaneous G-lock - a phenomenon we still don't fully understand. No doubt that played a factor in the loss of the 2 F-20s.
This was the Mig-21 of the 80s. Decent capability, incredibly cheap to run. Its genuinely unbelievable nobody bought it, but I guess back then they didn't really factor in running costs as much as they should have.
The Israelis built the Lavi. It would have competed against the F-16 in sales competitions. So, the Israelis were told to forget about building them. A shame. It was a top notch fighter jet.
A fair point and my first military bio video was on the F-16. However I think there was a place for the F-20 as an inexpensive export fighter. What an amazing time for fighter development - late 70s early 80s. Thanks for commenting!
PilotPhotog - I don’t disagree. When it first came out, I remember falling in love with the Tigershark and hoping the Air Force would find a role for it.
The reason why F20 was never bought by the USAF was because no matter how good it was, the USAF is averse to low cost "light" fighters. F16 is an exception as it introduced bleeding edge technology and huge potential for growth
F16 was a commercial platform from which a lot of money could be squeezed both on sale and in time with the ugrates. That's why the elders decided that the F16 would be the winning platform. Plus, LM had chopped a lot of money from the government and the latter wanted to recover the investment...
Note: thanks, I say this becos i found an article that said about this. JAS Gripen was based on F-20. Both are similar in nose to fuselage, engine and design concept. (But still we can disagreed with my claim.) *Bad news* : i lost that article. I love northrop F-5 family. A design tht make up the family tree from mr.Tiger Northrop n bro Talon Northrop to their descendant. A very finest fighter design.
@X-Ray Crystallography No, JAS Gripen doesn't use any of F-16 engine. The earlier version of JAS Gripen are using powerplant *Volvo-Flygmotor RM12* , a licence-built derivative of the *General Electric F404−400* , the same engine being use by F-20 & F-18 Hornet. And Gripen E/F are using General Electric F414G. The same engine that being used by F/A-18E/F Super Hornet.
@@therobert9521 To be fair, as the other contributor wrote, Yeager was highly complimentary about it, long after cancellation. And he wasn't the kind of guy to waffle - Chuck knew his aircraft. If the F20 hadn't been an honest performer - he would've said it.
Currently there are 2 fighters that share this concept and engine, the jas-39 grippen and KAI T/FA-50. Both share the same single engine, low cost to operate, supersonic and can be equipped with BVR missles and smartbombs
I know here in Canada we will be looking for a new fighter and the F-20 would be interesting to see in the running for the contract. It would most likely be up against the F-35, F/A-18E, Grippen or maybe even the Typhoon. But with its lower cost could stand a chance with the right modern upgrades. #MakeTheF20GreatAgain
I have read that the F-5 or F-20 cost less per flight hour to run than other fighters, which would make the penny pinchers in Canada happy. Plus it's reliability and ease of maintenance would have made it a good fighter for Canada. I think that a fighter along these lines should be designed that draws inspiration from the F-20, but does do with modern materials and technologies with price-performance being the main goal. I expect it would end up looking like a half-sized Super Hornet with one engine.
The project is history. It will only be resurrected if someone will risk buying the license and modernize it together with the producer, otherwise it is history and will remain history.We were actually discussing on some military forums in Romania with several people passionate about military technology, about this plane in the sense that Romania should acquire the license. For the aviation industry in Romania it would have been a huge step. Canada, a state with a lot of money, will not even look at it, no matter how upgraded it is.
Indeed it was regrettable that the F-20 wasn't adopted by any country, it would have been a valuable upgrade to the Brazilian and Indonesian air forces, among others, that have never purchased the F-16. The F-20 demise was the US government lack of vision and its philosophy that the more expensive is always the better. I've purchased a "what if" kit version of the F-20 that I plan to paint in the Brazilian air force colors.
That sounds like a great modelling project! If you are on Instagram let me know and I will follow you to see the pics of the Brazilian F-20 when it is done. Thanks for commenting!
Yes, the f20 would be a great option for many of our allies. What a wonderful aircraft, and with 21st century upgrades she'd be as lethal as she is beautiful.
u r silly, even taiwan did not have a military since day one, China would not have attacked Taiwan due to the fact China had always wanted a peaceful unification unless taiwan declare independence... till today, even US has not once dare to ask Taiwan to do so... Cos US has never prepared to save Taiwan, as it is not worth at all.... China has, only God knows how many nuclear missiles that can hit US.
@@limeddie3864 not true China tried and failed They attacked an island near the mainland coast during the later stages of the Civil War and got annihilated by Taiwanese forces
The F20 was engine start and gear up in less than 2 minutes. When minutes do make a difference after enemy radar contact, no aircraft I know of can be in the air and in the fight sooner.
I have the feeling that in a guns only WVR dogfights between two equally skilled and experienced combat pilots, the F-20 still has a good chance coming out as the winner even when the opponent pilot is flying the latest Gen 4++, Gen 4.5, or Gen 5 fighter.
I don't share your optimism. The F-22 is one of the most formidable aircraft and with its vectored thrust would turn inside this jet to have the advantage in a dogfight.
@@jeffschwager1407 Imagine this plane updated to 2020, plus vector traction... An F22 would sweat a lot until they put one again... That's how you have to think. That modernized platform + modern avionics would make a serial killer.
@@Storel552 What you describe is sort of like the F-35, albeit without the vectored thrust... But the F-35 fills a niche and dogfights are not the F-35's strong suit. The F-35 isn't as capable at intercept as the F-22. Its avionics suite, which gives it the ability to passively detect other aircraft, share targeting information with other aircraft, and get the first shot off is. If the first shot misses and the enemy fighter gets within visual range, the F-35 is in trouble.
@@Storel552 If they were to upgrade the F20 and give it vectored thrust and enhanced avionics, it's not a simple matter of bolting these things on. You change the weight and balance and it may require a redesign of the wings, and/or moving the wing back because vectored thrust adds weight to the engine, moving the Center of Gravity to the rear which affects flight performance. It sounds like an easy fix, but it's more complicated than that.
I know that nobody will believe me but I witnessed the second crash. I was 13 years old and living on the military base at Goose Bay, Labrador. My friends and I were waiting for the bus that morning when we saw the F20 performing aerobatic maneuvers. We didn't pay much attention because we were used to seeing fighter planes in the sky overhead. Then all of a sudden off in the distance we heard a loud and dull thud and a huge plume of black smoke... Also, does anyone else remember the AC/Delco commercial Chuck Yeager did with the Tigershark in the background?
I can’t image what that must have been like. Tragic crash and loss of a pilot. I do remember the commercial by the way. Good times. Thanks for commenting!
@@PilotPhotog It isn't. JF17 is a redeveloped Mig 21 and thus structurally totally different. Also the electronics equipment of the JF17 is at current time's level. It is said that a JF17 shot down a Su30 recently. China hasn't the best electronics but still more advanced than Russia(28nm vs 110nm) thus no wonder.
@@aabb-zz9uw the Indian Su-30 that was shot down have a lot of Israeli electronic upgrades to them. Also a Mig-21 was downed too by the JF-17 as well. The JF-17s have chinese, Pakistani, Italian, Russian parts. But Pakistan holds about 80% of licensed production and manufacturing rights which is slowly increasing. My cousin is a JF-17 pilot and his brother is an engineer at KAMRA, the aerospace division.
Likewise! I almost didn’t make this video because I didn’t think others cared about or appreciated this legendary aircraft. Glad I did and thanks for commenting!
The F-20 would be a good and inexpensive plane for nations with a smaller budget, i.e. in Africa or South America. Instead, the Chinese are rolling up the market with their export aircraft.
It would be a good fighter for Canada at that time as we was looking for a inexpensive fighter to replace many of our older fighters from the 50s. Plus we built and flew CF 5 Freedom Fighter a Canadian variant of the F5 Freedom Fighter so it would be an easy and inexpensive transition.
The F-20 is one of those aircraft that was an engineering marvel lucked out by eternal factors (politics). Sometimes building an excellent fighter isn't enough as history has shown. In saying that some of the most successful aircraft in history have follows the philosophy of the Tiger family of fighters. The A4 Skyhawk, not the fastest, high tech or hard hitting, but a cheap and effective workhorse for many militaries.
Thank you for the comment! I will release the promo video mid week next week. Upcoming video is on the Eurofighter which comes out Monday. Let me know what you think.
I seem to recall that when Canada was shopping for its next fighter, the F-20 was considered, but they instead went with the F-18 Hornet. This was so, even though the F-20 had all of its cost and simplicity advantages, plus a range, that if memory serves, was double the F-18's. Which is crazy because if you're trying to police a country the size of Canada, one of your prime considerations is range.
Memory is serving breakfast and its time for the coffee. The U.S. navy did not choose a shorter range than a flea F-20 trainer. An F-18 would kill an F-20 long before its tiny baby radar knew an enemy was in the area. First look first shot, second look second shot, third look no air force left. That is just for starters but with a start like that need we go further? There is a reason the U.S. chooses big planes. Hint: It starts with long range, big R and ends with adar.
this is the jet fighter i adore madly crazily like no other. she was cancelled in 86. india was offered the full program in 89. they said no due to tejas go ahead in 84. india has less than 50 of their demur tejas now. if the f20 tigershark was built, subtle improvements were planned: engine power increase of 1k thrust from 17k to 18k bigger nose/nose radar bulkhead moved back to allow for bigger radar size and bigger detection range 2x 20mm tigerclaw cannons to replace the 2 m39 revolver cowboy guns themselves based on nazi mg213 20mm revolver cowboy guns bigger wing area for more agility of 220 square feet compared to 185 sq ft triple actuators on the forward wing flaps replacing the single actuator which would increase turn rates a bigger mission computer bigger underwing drop tanks this could have been put into production f20a/b twin seat models or a c/d twin seat models. all a what if. as the jet was built even today she would be lethal... nevermind an updated e/f model with f414 epe enhanced performance engines of 26k, aesa radar etc etc. and and and... northrop broke my dark heart 2x. no damn gal ever did that. 1st their darling f20 tigershark, best jet ever built. then this little dear. no details relased on her. she doesnt matter. bin her... www.militaryfactory.com/aircraft/detail.asp?aircraft_id=1648
F-20 tiger 🐅shark🦈......too nice video with clearly explaining of producing steps of several types of aircrafts in different places successful using of US aircraft a producing until borne of F-20 tiger shark...🇺🇸🦅👍👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾
After going through this video, I strongly feel that the F - 20 was a missed opportunity. Yes, I would like to go through the entire promo video of this fine aircraft. Thanks ...
The jet fighter was so on another plane in flying that it caused a g lock that the air force still doesn't understand today. Which was a bad thing. I wonder if that happens to other pilots?
No comments in the video about ranges, inflight refuelling and payload compared to the F-16. Might find some reasons there why the F-16 was more popular...
I remember as a kid in the 80s reading an article about the F20 and the fact that this aircraft is also offered to our air force even demonstrated as well here in Indonesia (part of a procurement program test in the mid 80s alongside Mirage 2000, Panavia Tornado and F-16) but alas our air force went to select the F-16 instead. 🥺
Nope, f16 have better aero, and a experimental f16xl, never produced have range and payload to replace the f15e. Modern jets need range, pilots are expensive to loose because a cheap vehicle
2:35 A squadron of Chilean F-5s taking off from Carrasco airport, Montevideo, Uruguay. Then the same squadron is seen in flight. Fantastic combat aircraft, still serving in Brazil, Mexico and Chile, among others.
Hell, yeah, I would love to see the promo video in its entirety. Thanks for this short but cool little documentary on this excellent fighter that should have been. And you just made a new subscriber.
My favorite fighter that never was; I had the privilege to visit Northrup assembly line in LA, circa 1981. It was amazing to see the large autoclaves for making composite panels and wings, ,and the tooling, advanced for that time. It was a real shame, as this may have beaten the F16 in nearly every category, specially performance vs cost of maintenance.
Thank you for commenting and providing us with some insight...its hard to appreciate how advanced the F-20 was for the time, since most of the features it introduced are standard on many fighters now.
In Chile, where we have 16 F5 Tiger III plus (F5E upgraded by IAI) ... the grey ones with the blue stripe in the tail in the video.... we love them, despite our main fleet is F16 block 50/52+....
A few things- yes, the F20 is pretty. Yes, it is a strikingly capable little jet for it's cost. But people miss a few things about it: 1) endurance. The jet has tiny internal fuel for that engine. It would need to use most of it's pylon space for fuel, and would lose hugely on performance and weapons load. While somewhat true of the larger F16 in turn, this hurts the F20 more than the Viper. 2) Airframe lifetime: The F20 airframe is structurally pushing to and arguably beyond the basic design's limits, especially if laden with fuel and proportionately heavier stores. This would have led to major performance limitations on the F20 airframes within a few years of service, compared to the F16 design. 3) The end of an Evolution vs. The beginning: The F20 shows how far you can takr an F5. It's incredible. But the F20 on day 1 is 99% as far as you can push the design. There's no more room for new systems- it has fit all it can fit. It's a monster in 1987, it'll be obsolete by 2000. The F20 cannot fit a bigger engine or have the electrical generation to add much in modern systems. F16? F16 at day 1 has a third of it's volume free for upgrades internally. It's designed to be plug and play. It's external body has room for substantial addons like efts and EW kit even a decade later. The airframe isn't even close to maxxed out and will last tens of years if flown at normal payloads and g loadings. The F16 had the ability to take a bigger engine and intake than the base model, adding power both in thrust and electrical generation. It could be viable with AESA and run other systems. Modern Payload options: F20 can carry two sparrows. Maybe even four AMRAAM someday. A whole Harpoon missile! (... a Hornet can carry 4.) Two whole mavericks! Or it can carry 3 275 gallon EFTs and rely on guns and wingtip stations. It can drop fuel for a targeting pod! But no Harpoon in that config :(. Max load of external stores? About 10,000 lbs. And you bend your airplane at 3.5gs fully laden. And the wings like to snap off then with little warning. F20 has "no aerodynamic limits" in it's FCS, maximizing maneuvering. Hardcore. Until you pull stick too hard and hit 3.5g and the stores rip off and take the wing with them. F16? Up to 4 sparrows (fitted for 2 in some versions)- or six AMRAAM someday. Some variants could go up to 8 BVRAAMs... on paper. Fuel? Smashes the F20: 2 600 gallon and one 300 gallon EFTs- with full 6 AAM loadout. Want mavericks? 4 to 6. Harpoon? HARM? 2. You only lose 2 BVRAAMs for either. And a targeting pod, while losing nothing else. Why not throw in a HARM targeting system for free? Max stores: north of 16,000 lbs. You only bend the plane at 5.5gs fully laden. The wings rarely snap, but give a bit of warning before they do. FCS is optimized to help pilots keep to the G limits of their aircraft loadout: with a handy switch for when you jettison stores. The F16 costs a bit more. But it -does- a lot more. And can grow without losing much. F20? It would have been a really cool plane, but would have been retired by 2010. Viper will be in service till 2040 at the earliest.
This is easily the best video about the F-20 on all yt, good job. My country's air force considered to buy 18 of this jets to compliment the existing 12 F-5's, but sadly an earthquake hit México City in 1985 and the plan was cancelled. Anyways, awesome video, keep the good job man! 🙂
The F20 in a modern rendering would be the most cost effective and sustainable aircraft flown,allowing many nations to purchase more of them per aircraft cost,so instead if buying 12 buy 18 more bang for your buck! Especially in the guise of the X29 a FSW version of the F5/20
Most argue the Gripen-E to be the ultimate F-20 what if, I can see where they are coming from sometimes despite the fact that the Jas-39E doesn't share any lineage with the Tigershark except the F404 engine which was the predecessor the F414 which powers the Gripen.
JF17 is copy of failed russian design that too a Chinese copy. Showpiece tin can. It will drop like a fly. F20 looks promising and not to be compared with shit copy jet. It's like comparing Marcedes with Chinese copy cat car.
@@vinayakkadolkar89 Did you see JF17 block 3 generation 4.5 helmet + BVR + aesa radar 180km .... they were busy with improving + low cost. JF-17 is equal to F16 block 52+
@@vinayakkadolkar89 before putting your nonsense commenting go throgh all comments everyone is talking about grippen and jf17 as good planes they are not pakistanis. You indians get your hal teajuice to work.
@@vinayakkadolkar89 before putting your nonsense commenting go throgh all comments everyone is talking about grippen and jf17 as good planes they are not pakistanis. You indians get your hal teajuice to work.
So many of us love this aircraft. I still remember hearing about those crashes as an 11 year old. There was one article that said something about the low wing design was more difficult for weapons loading and maintenance access than the higher wing style of the F-16 and F-18. This was allegedly a factor with potential buyers. There was no automatic canopy either. In any case, this aircraft seems to have an almost cult like following. A very aestetically beautiful aircraft for sure. I still have the promotional color brochures about this plane from the 84 time period somewhere in a box. Thank you for this documentary.
The F-16 and the F-5 are 2 of my all time favourite fighters particularly because of their shape. When it was released, I discovered that the F-20 was the new improved version of the F-5 and I was instantly hooked. I have always wondered what could have been. I would have loved to see a dogfight between the F-16 and the F-20.
Northrop's experience with the F-20 and YF-23 is a good lesson for other US MIC companies to put less money into R&D and more into marketing. It's also a good lesson not to pitch your aircraft as cheap and affordable. Pentagon might have been more sympathetic had they marketed it as an expensive gadget.
Yet another excellent video, Thanks! A few thoughts: Not only the JF-17 is - in a sense - an iteration of the F-20 concept. Also JAS-39A/B/C/D and finally the E-variant of Gripen. The aircraft may not look similar due to the delta canard configuration, but the radical emphasis on low operating cost, excellent performance, extensive use of composite materials, datalink and state of the art sensors is what you have to look for. Sadly, the Korean T-50 - with the aid of Lockheed Martin) is also an iteration of the same concept. And they al share the same lineage of engines: the GE F-404 and its more powerful cousin the GE F-414. US industry and US forces seem to have little regard for operating cost. For industry low maintenance means less spareparts to sell and thus dwindling profits. And for the air forces - which, according to a renowned professor in political science, Niskanen - are just like bureaucrats, set to maximizing their budgets - lower cost means smaller budgets. The higher you climb in military hierarchy, the more you are forced to think as a bureaucrat and less as a fighting soldier. The F-35 being a prime example: it's a political/bureaucratic aircraft in a way, as its manufacturing is spread around the country (and globe) to ensure political support. The reports of the Director OT&E (dr. Gilmore) and US GAO were condemning of the programme decades in a row, yet no one dared to kill the programme. That is the US MIC at work, against which Eisenhower warned. Not that the F-35 is a lousy aircraft, but it has been poorly managed, government oversight has collapsed and the costs have spiraled.
Thanks for the comment and the analysis...my very next video is all about the top 5 aircraft that should have been produced, the F-20 is on that list. Let me know what you think when it comes out.
@@PilotPhotog I will, thanks. For your information: I'm Dutch, have a masters degree in Public Administration specialized (or majored as I think you'd call it in the US or Canada) in strategic studies, international policy and international relations. Did some research work at the Dutch MoD/staff of the Dutch equivalent of the Chief of Staff at the MSA (Military Strategic Affairs) but never quite had the opportunity to stay due to many and severe budget cuts from 1990 onwards (some people here thought it to be a good idea to cash in on the 'peace dividend...' Been working as an ordinary civil servant ever since, yet with a keen interest in military affairs, military history, strategy, military technology, etc. I'm not an aviation specialist but I've got a few friends who have (for example a ret. Col. RNLAF who has flown almost every jet in the Dutch inventory from the early 1960ies onward and a masters degree in aerospace engineering among others). And a few former US aviators (USMC and USN, who have flown A-4's and F-4's in Vietnam). That's where I get my intel from and I cannot tell you, what a joy it is to be in their company. And how much I appreciate your videos, which seem to been mad with the same 'madness' for the subject as we all share. But please do not regard me as a subject matter expert, I'm more of a reasonably informed civilian and with an infantry background (served as a conscript) to make matters worse. Nevertheless: my sincere compliments and hope to learn more from you! Cheers and kind regards!
I think the Gripen was highly influenced by the F-20. Especially as it was shortlisted as probably the best successor to the Viggensystem back in the early eighties.
Thank you! I've got a couple more on the F-5 series coming out soon, I appreciate your comment and let me know what you think when the next ones in the series are released.
I saw the Northrop F-20 Tigershark N4416T at The Farnborough Airshow in 1984. It was flown by Darrell Cornell and was easily the best flying display of that year and was far better than the F-16. Sadly it crashed later in the year, in Korea, killing Darrell.
F-20 was truly a superb fighter jet. It's sad to see the demise of such plane and its equivalent like the Israeli's Lavi in the hands of politics. However, Nortrop should definitely consider restarting the F20 program.
In an unusual way, KAI and Lockheed-Martin built a facsimile thereof. They designed the T-50/FA-50 with so much similarity in design. The base model has a top speed of Mach 1.5, but the largest engine is greater than Mach 1.9. It's a light fighter with more electronic capability, but still easy to maintain. It's the plane many Asian nations have bought, plus Iraq, Poland, Peru, and soon to be sold to other Eastern European nations.. Still it is the top selling light fighter and trainer in the world at this time. All was not lost with the F-20.
Politics killed it... I love the F-16 but this was clearly a direct challenge to the Falcon both in performance and operating costs...too bad. Nice videos keep it up!
I read an article in The New Republic about the F-20 a long time ago. One drawback it mentioned was that the F-20 didn't have the range of the F-16. Maybe they could have built a few hundred F-20's to take care of the nearby targets. It said in that article that we should produce around 800 F-20's for our own market and for the export market. It said that the original idea for the F-20 was to give developing nations the chance to acquire a top of the line fighter for not much money. To be honest, I think the reason there wasn't much demand for the F-20 was similar to why people want hot sports cars. They don't want economical, they want the best, and the F-20 couldn't escape its identity as being second to the F-16. I guess the F-20 is still a workable idea. If we built a couple of thousand of them for our own need and for the export market we could get a lot of capability for not much money. The military doesn't do enough of that. If the U.S. had a good number of F-20's in its arsenal it might escape the identity of being second best.
I was thought there are 3 answers to all questions in the military: Yes sir, no sir, no excuser sir. This is a bigno excuser sir. Even if we had built them and used them in our own aggressor squadrons this plane should have been built PERIOD.
The F-20 Tiger Shark is by far my favorite fighter jet of all time. It really should have been produced and sold worldwide. No doubt it would probably still be in service today.
Pakistan is always been flying US made fighters and falling in love with these jets ....when JF 17 program was in progress the aim was some what close to F16 and copy concepts of F 20 and some other US jets ....if you look closer to JF you can even identify these points that are common ...US planes are always best the air force can get ...
It would have been a very effective and efficient Fighter for the US Military and our military lost out because it wasn't adopted f-16s are great fighter but it's not as economical is the F20 was I would have liked very much to see it fly in our air forces and see its progress and development over the years . Northrop has always built very very good aircraft
Unfortunate that politics killed it, would have been a beast! great work as always!
Thank you so much!
Yes, till 1989 it was more Capeble than the plane which killed it.
Northrop have been the victim of politics for a long time now.
The foreign sale of the F-20 was put in the hands of the Air Force.
The Air Force had a vested interest in selling the F-16 as they were already ordering it for themselves and additional sales would drive the unit cost down. The result was that they didn't really try to get foreign allies to buy the F-20.
Such a shame.
Today I would like to see the F-20 built as an unmanned platform.
It could be built in vast numbers at a fraction of the unit cost of the F-35 and less than 1/10 of the operating cost.
It could even be sacrificed on penetration missions and flown into the target or used to shield the accompanying manned aircraft from SAM fire.
Often numbers count more than stealthy designs, especially with modern radars.
Seems like Carter was short sighted in many more ways than I thought
I flew the F-5 extensively in an aggressor role. Based on that experience, I would call the F-20 a very capable airframe that could find a place even on today's battlefields. Additionally, I don't think a handsomer jet fighter has ever been built.
Thank you for your service and in helping our pilots keep their edge, and yes the F-20 is a gorgeous aircraft!
Hi, do you think nowadays a modernised version of f-20 with up to date engine, avionics and weapons, with composite body materials could be a good and cheap solution for countries like ukraine, greece, georgia, bulgaria, etc, facing outdated threats like sukhoys and migs ?
I wonder though...was there some nagging, subconscious thing going on in people's mind that made them believe the F-20 was soon to be outdated tech, since it was so closely related to the aging F-5? That was always my take. Shiny new F-16 tech, over older F-5 morphed into F-20 tech? I believe anyone think that would be wrong. I personally think many of our Allies could have benefited from the F-20, from Taiwan, to Japan, to Israel, to Germany, to Canada, to Australia. All of these countries, and more, could have made great use of this amazing aircraft.
@Sean Price I think the idea is that the F-20 was new tech based on old tech...instead of completely reinventing the wheel...which is more costly. The F-20 was, as I recall, going to be significantly cheaper than the F-15, F16, or F-18.
It is an interceptor and filled that role better than those other two. It had an insane climb rate as I recall. Now, while it likely wasn't going to be carrying 10 long range missiles, I do think it could have carried 4 to 6 AIM-7s, and later the AMRAAM missiles.
These could have been backed up by a heavier aircraft, capable of carrying a much higher payload, at the price of slower time t get on station.
Blame Lockheed Martin, Northrop made an awesome fighter but didn’t bribe the right senators to get the program rolling…
F-5 and F-20 are also among the most beautiful aircraft ever built!
Hard to argue with that and thanks for commenting!
The jf17 is the f20 so democrats refused taiwan f20 tech and china got it for free like it has trillions of $ worth of tech. If taiwan got the f20 they would produce over 300 in more than 3 gens.
this jet, the f20, gets to me. unsure how to word it. i adore this jet.
Mig 29 and Mirage F1 ARE CONSIDERED EVEN MORE BEAUTIFUL IN MY OPINION
Johnny Daller
My favourite jet fighter ever!
With the F86 ..... like racing cars , love them
The F-20 would’ve been great today for point-defense, homeland security missions that doesn’t require stealth. Like the YF-23, Northrop Grumman have this habit of developing outstanding fighters, yet lack the lobbyist ground support to get them into production.
Well said and thanks for commenting!
If we got the YF-23 and F-20, the entire US airwing will almost be entirely Northrop Grumman/McDonald Douglas aircraft.
I think the issue has more to do with the B-2 bomber and Northrop's failures during this time period.
@@KevinSmith-qi5yn - The YF-23 was the second time Northorp Grumman got screwed by General Dynamics (by then Lockheed Martin). Besides better political maneuvering by Lockheed Martin, I believe another reason why the YF-23 lost to the YF-22 was the YF-23 was too revolutionary in its desigen. Northrop basically brought a Gen 5.5 jet to a contest for a Gen 5 jet.
DCL 308 well that’s a horrible way to look at it. The YF-22 was more maneuverable, agile, and was lighter. The YF-22 has a greater weapons payload and better modularity for system upgrades down the road. The YF-23 was only marginally more stealthy and faster and it’s short comings were too much to overcome at the time. There were already many system issues that Lockheed had already solved and Northrop was months or even years behind in some aspects. Not only that, but the complete shitshow that the B-2 program became made the decision clear between the two.
@@calebemerson9317 everything you said contradicts everything Paul Metz said about both aircraft. Paul Metz is the only pilot to fly both the 22 and 23.
He also stated the only envelope the 22 proved better than the 23 was the post stall due to the 22 having thrust vectoring. Post stall speeds are typically air show speeds. Anything above that the 23 had the edge. It was faster and had better stealth. Paul said "it could perform any angle of attack, even backwards".
You can also notice that LM completely redesigned the 22 after they got the contract. More than likely making up for its short comings.
Everyone acts like thrust vectoring is the end all be all. The 22 TVC only aids in pitch. It's only 2 dimensional. Typically as soon as someone gets slow enough to use the TVC it's a last ditch effort and they typically get killed any by non TVC aircraft.
I saw the F-20 Tigershark perform and I was blown away by its ability to turn on a dime and accelerate like lightning!!!...
Me Also!!!
Yes, in fact it can surpass the f-16.
So what did the engines sound like?? I'm sad that the only one still around is the one here in Cali at the Science center and we'll never get to hear her start up or fly.
It's the perfect body for a very agile jet fighter. Even more so then F16 in some ways. Those are the best 2 jet fighters ever built. I think.
@@hectormontemayor7175 You're absolutely correct,the F-20 out turn the f-16.
Don't remind me. I remember being extremely disappointed when the F20 was cancelled. I was a huge fan of this jet
Likewise and thanks for commenting!
Me too...
Corky Duke. Me too.
I saw this plane at an El Toro airshow in the 80's! AMAZING PLANE!!! Sad, that is was never adopted!!! It was a Beast!!!
They have same look like Jugoslavian super Galeb 4 America steal Yugoslav program named new plane ✈
No matter how many times I watch these videos about the F5 and the F20 I never get tired of them. I just love the F5 series of fighter jets. I hope that they could be modernized and brought back to service.
Vietnam wants to refurbish and modernize their F-5 fleet to defend against Chinese aggression
@@kdrapertrucker I hope they do! I've always thought that with the modern jet engines being smaller and more powerful the F-5 could be a real killer.
Brazil has some incredible F5's. Fully modernized. The cockpit looks just like an fa18 hornet cockpit. Just like the cockpit in this video halfway through.
They are, they are the F-18
One of my favorites is the tomcat due to the adjustment of the wings
My dad worked for Northrop towards the tail end of the Tigershark's life. I remember going to a family picnic at Northrop when I was like 9. They had a video presentation of the Tigershark blowing stuff up. I became a huge fan of this jet. Then it was gone.
Thanks for sharing and yes sadly it did go away suddenly.
I can still remember the print ads for the F20 in magazines in the early 80s, I think they featured Chuck Yeager. A brilliant plane shot down by politics and corporate skullduggery. Beautiful lines, and as the videos show, enough power to weight thrust to make the tail whip as it screams down the runway on its takeoff roll. Like the Blackbird yawing slightly from the power of its twin J58s on takeoff . A real shame she never got greenlit, mass produced, even if only exported.
I remember that at that time Grumman offered PAF to select F-20 instead of F-16 and in return complete production line of F-20 would be shifted to Pakistan. But PAF selected F-16 as USAF was in favor of F-16.
In 1986 China signed an agreement with Grumman to modernize its fleet of J-7 fighters under the so-called "Super-7" upgrade, but this agreement was cancelled in early 1990, in the wake of political relations with the West, but by that time engineering blue prints of F-20 were shared with Chengdu Aircraft Corporation [CAC]. That's why JF-17 air frame is much similar to F-20, while engine and avionics are based on what ever is available in the market at the moment.
Thank you for commenting and I plan on doing a follow up video about the JF-17 and how it is based on the F-20.
If paf favored f20 instead of f16 paf would've been ruling the asian skies till now
They choose F16 because it was war tested at that time and one of the most feared air craft.
Seems like the JF17 is a amalgamation of the F20 blueprints with the J7 (old soviet stolen plane ) design.
@@joj8559 Late, but the Jf 17 airframe looks nothing like an f20 and everything like an f16.
Jimmy the peanut farmer hated Taiwan. He was the one that pulled American Embassy in Taipei out in 1979.
Taiwan had F-5E and F-5F as main stable fighter against Chines PLAAF. MiG 21 was their most advanced fighter. Most incursion occurred was their more outdated Mig 19. F-5E was more than adequate. Taiwan and Northrop had cooperated and for many years. Taiwanese was more than willing to take F5G. Chuck Yeager was the legend that endorsed the F20. It’s a shame that USAF passed on it. Taiwan was prevented from buying it. Most fighter pilots were trained on T38. Guess what, very similar air frame, built by Northrop.
Indeed and it’s a shame it seems like the F-20 could have been an incredible platform. Thanks for commenting!
Yep Carters from my state of Georgia and many consider him an embarrassment to our State, what your stated is another reason to add
"Jimmy the peanut farmer hated Taiwan." Because he was a commie.
I would imagine that Carter had no choice but to close the Embassy in 1979, considering that is the year that they opened up China. Everything to do with Kissinger, Bush, & globalism... and nothing to do with 'the peanut farmer's hate' of Taiwan.
@@PilotPhotog just for some extra info here I have seen some internet rumor as it that some of the t20 tech (mostly the electronic parts) were pass on to Taiwan which they then used to create the f-ck-1 fighter.
You made this video 2 years ago today. I was a Controller at El Toro and we had the F-20 TigerShark at our Airshow. It was amazing.
I was at that air show at El Toro. The F20 became my favorite airplane that day and has never been replaced.
I was working that airshow. Wasn't that the same show where it was very windy and the first plane did a barrel roll on takeoff and crashed into the chapel? The pilots wife was 9 months pregnant.
The F-20 holds a rare distinction: it is one of the only fighter aircraft capable of inducing instantaneous G-lock - a phenomenon we still don't fully understand. No doubt that played a factor in the loss of the 2 F-20s.
Interesting point and I will need to look into that further, thanks for commenting!
If the F-20 was autonomous, G-lock would not be a factor.
Add thrust vectoring and it could easily outmaneuver any manned aircraft.
I’ve seen the video of one of those crashes. It was high negative gs that did the pilot in.
This looks strikingly similar to the MIG-28 ;)
lol yep, but you have to be in a 4G inverted dive to get a close look at one. Thanks for commenting!
Lol Looking forward to TOP GUN 2
Youve seen a mig 28 before? At what range? Maybe 15 feet.
Practicing foreign relations. I gave him the bird.
They've never been this close before
This was the Mig-21 of the 80s. Decent capability, incredibly cheap to run. Its genuinely unbelievable nobody bought it, but I guess back then they didn't really factor in running costs as much as they should have.
Countries wanted to buy it, but politics got in the way.
Why should they, come and slop at the trough of the taxpayer no matter how much it costs oink oink oink
Turns out selling the same plane to two countries that are at war with each other is not a good idea.
The Israelis built the Lavi. It would have competed against the F-16 in sales competitions. So, the Israelis were told to forget about building them. A shame. It was a top notch fighter jet.
Based on the operational history of the F16, it’s hard to argue that the US picked the wrong plane.
A fair point and my first military bio video was on the F-16. However I think there was a place for the F-20 as an inexpensive export fighter. What an amazing time for fighter development - late 70s early 80s. Thanks for commenting!
PilotPhotog - I don’t disagree. When it first came out, I remember falling in love with the Tigershark and hoping the Air Force would find a role for it.
We'll never know, will we?
This could be an advanced fighter trainer aircraft
History repeats itself, as Northrup got screwed again with the YF-23.
The reason why F20 was never bought by the USAF was because no matter how good it was, the USAF is averse to low cost "light" fighters.
F16 is an exception as it introduced bleeding edge technology and huge potential for growth
The only reason that the F 20 crashed at Osan Rok was the pilot did not use a g suite I blocked him out twenty minutes before the bird whent down
@CR BZ the growth potential was very limited compared to an F-16.
That, and the F-20 was developed without the Air Force's input.
The American defence is as well!
F16 was a commercial platform from which a lot of money could be squeezed both on sale and in time with the ugrates. That's why the elders decided that the F16 would be the winning platform. Plus, LM had chopped a lot of money from the government and the latter wanted to recover the investment...
Don't be sad.
F-20 still live and it has inherited it's DNA.
To JAS GRIPEN
(The engine at least)
Great analogy and thanks for commenting!
Note: thanks,
I say this becos i found an article that said about this. JAS Gripen was based on F-20. Both are similar in nose to fuselage, engine and design concept.
(But still we can disagreed with my claim.)
*Bad news* : i lost that article.
I love northrop F-5 family. A design tht make up the family tree from mr.Tiger Northrop n bro Talon Northrop to their descendant.
A very finest fighter design.
No , Swedish plane has different configuration. Consider only aerodynamic point of view, F20 resemblance to JF-17.
@X-Ray Crystallography
No, JAS Gripen doesn't use any of F-16 engine.
The earlier version of JAS Gripen are using powerplant *Volvo-Flygmotor RM12* , a licence-built derivative of the *General Electric F404−400* , the same engine being use by F-20 & F-18 Hornet.
And Gripen E/F are using General Electric F414G. The same engine that being used by F/A-18E/F Super Hornet.
@@alexlo7708 yes, Swedish has different configuration but both are created on the same idea: Low operating costs, High reliability, Easy maintenance.
Like many Northrop planes F20 was a beautyful plane.
Definitely a missed opportunity. Even Brig. General Chuck Yeager liked this aircraft.
He was payed to like it.
@@therobert9521 He wrote is his biography that he still loved it, even if he weren't payed to like it
@@therobert9521 To be fair, as the other contributor wrote, Yeager was highly complimentary about it, long after cancellation. And he wasn't the kind of guy to waffle - Chuck knew his aircraft. If the F20 hadn't been an honest performer - he would've said it.
Currently there are 2 fighters that share this concept and engine, the jas-39 grippen and KAI T/FA-50. Both share the same single engine, low cost to operate, supersonic and can be equipped with BVR missles and smartbombs
Yes, proving that there is a market for such a fighter today - excellent point!
@@PilotPhotog true, although the current FA-50 in service do not have BVR capability but it can be implemented if the customer needs it.
You forgot HAL tejas
What about jf-17
Considering the F5 is sought after today as it costs far less to fly, it was a huge mistake of the Carter Administration.
The F-20's legacy is ............ The Saab Gripen
I was thinking the same thing it's amazing how many boxes the Gripen checks that the Tigeshark preceded it on.
No, it's the KAI FA50
The lesser known malfunction and disable status of the Communication ship SS Layyton in the Indian Ocean is a hush hush legacy of the F20 ! 🤫
THIS Tigershark'S dream can't cometrue, BUT i think This guy must AWSOME.
Thank you and thanks for commenting!
I know here in Canada we will be looking for a new fighter and the F-20 would be interesting to see in the running for the contract. It would most likely be up against the F-35, F/A-18E, Grippen or maybe even the Typhoon. But with its lower cost could stand a chance with the right modern upgrades. #MakeTheF20GreatAgain
I have read that the F-5 or F-20 cost less per flight hour to run than other fighters, which would make the penny pinchers in Canada happy. Plus it's reliability and ease of maintenance would have made it a good fighter for Canada. I think that a fighter along these lines should be designed that draws inspiration from the F-20, but does do with modern materials and technologies with price-performance being the main goal. I expect it would end up looking like a half-sized Super Hornet with one engine.
Gripen is the new F-20
@@SanjaySingh-oh7hv KOWSAR
The project is history. It will only be resurrected if someone will risk buying the license and modernize it together with the producer, otherwise it is history and will remain history.We were actually discussing on some military forums in Romania with several people passionate about military technology, about this plane in the sense that Romania should acquire the license. For the aviation industry in Romania it would have been a huge step. Canada, a state with a lot of money, will not even look at it, no matter how upgraded it is.
Perhaps the air force of Canada will be more intelligent than the USA and choose a jet to give more bang for the buck, a.k.a. the F20 Tigershark.
Even Chuck Yeager himself flew it and spoke really nice about it.
Indeed and thanks for commenting!
Indeed it was regrettable that the F-20 wasn't adopted by any country, it would have been a valuable upgrade to the Brazilian and Indonesian air forces, among others, that have never purchased the F-16. The F-20 demise was the US government lack of vision and its philosophy that the more expensive is always the better. I've purchased a "what if" kit version of the F-20 that I plan to paint in the Brazilian air force colors.
That sounds like a great modelling project! If you are on Instagram let me know and I will follow you to see the pics of the Brazilian F-20 when it is done. Thanks for commenting!
Yes, the f20 would be a great option for many of our allies. What a wonderful aircraft, and with 21st century upgrades she'd be as lethal as she is beautiful.
Agree 100%!
F 20 is female? 🙄
@@rakeshdaimary5674 yes Rakesh the f20 is female
Just amazing how Taiwan can hold its own, given its size and the fact that everyone has turned their backs to it, given pressure from Mainland China.
u r silly, even taiwan did not have a military since day one, China would not have attacked Taiwan due to the fact China had always wanted a peaceful unification unless taiwan declare independence... till today, even US has not once dare to ask Taiwan to do so... Cos US has never prepared to save Taiwan, as it is not worth at all.... China has, only God knows how many nuclear missiles that can hit US.
@@limeddie3864 not true China tried and failed
They attacked an island near the mainland coast during the later stages of the Civil War and got annihilated by Taiwanese forces
The F20 was engine start and gear up in less than 2 minutes. When minutes do make a difference after enemy radar contact, no aircraft I know of can be in the air and in the fight sooner.
I have the feeling that in a guns only WVR dogfights between two equally skilled and experienced combat pilots, the F-20 still has a good chance coming out as the winner even when the opponent pilot is flying the latest Gen 4++, Gen 4.5, or Gen 5 fighter.
I don't share your optimism. The F-22 is one of the most formidable aircraft and with its vectored thrust would turn inside this jet to have the advantage in a dogfight.
@@jeffschwager1407 Imagine this plane updated to 2020, plus vector traction... An F22 would sweat a lot until they put one again... That's how you have to think. That modernized platform + modern avionics would make a serial killer.
@@Storel552 What you describe is sort of like the F-35, albeit without the vectored thrust... But the F-35 fills a niche and dogfights are not the F-35's strong suit. The F-35 isn't as capable at intercept as the F-22. Its avionics suite, which gives it the ability to passively detect other aircraft, share targeting information with other aircraft, and get the first shot off is. If the first shot misses and the enemy fighter gets within visual range, the F-35 is in trouble.
@@Storel552 If they were to upgrade the F20 and give it vectored thrust and enhanced avionics, it's not a simple matter of bolting these things on. You change the weight and balance and it may require a redesign of the wings, and/or moving the wing back because vectored thrust adds weight to the engine, moving the Center of Gravity to the rear which affects flight performance. It sounds like an easy fix, but it's more complicated than that.
I know that nobody will believe me but I witnessed the second crash. I was 13 years old and living on the military base at Goose Bay, Labrador. My friends and I were waiting for the bus that morning when we saw the F20 performing aerobatic maneuvers. We didn't pay much attention because we were used to seeing fighter planes in the sky overhead. Then all of a sudden off in the distance we heard a loud and dull thud and a huge plume of black smoke...
Also, does anyone else remember the AC/Delco commercial Chuck Yeager did with the Tigershark in the background?
I can’t image what that must have been like. Tragic crash and loss of a pilot. I do remember the commercial by the way. Good times. Thanks for commenting!
yes indeed good post
A resurrected F-20 with modern and improved avionics and miniaturized tech would be a beast of a machine today!
That's all the F-20 needed to be the best fighter in the world today. It already had the agility it needed etc.
The F-20 was the best fighter never used, now that fighter is the YF-23
Both Northrop designs. Thanks for commenting!
Another big mistake by USAF...
YF-23 was a much better fighter jet than F-22.
Always had a lot of love for the F-20. Gorgeous looking plane
The F-20 Tigershark is now known as the JF-17 Thunder.
I mean you’re not wrong... it does seem like a straight copy doesn’t it?
@@PilotPhotog It isn't. JF17 is a redeveloped Mig 21 and thus structurally totally different. Also the electronics equipment of the JF17 is at current time's level. It is said that a JF17 shot down a Su30 recently. China hasn't the best electronics but still more advanced than Russia(28nm vs 110nm) thus no wonder.
@@aabb-zz9uw the Indian Su-30 that was shot down have a lot of Israeli electronic upgrades to them. Also a Mig-21 was downed too by the JF-17 as well. The JF-17s have chinese, Pakistani, Italian, Russian parts. But Pakistan holds about 80% of licensed production and manufacturing rights which is slowly increasing.
My cousin is a JF-17 pilot and his brother is an engineer at KAMRA, the aerospace division.
I just wanted to say the F 5, F 20 also the T 38 were the best planes of there time. I see from the amount of comments I'm not alone!
Likewise! I almost didn’t make this video because I didn’t think others cared about or appreciated this legendary aircraft. Glad I did and thanks for commenting!
Such a great looking and performing little jet, such bad luck it wasn't used!
Agreed, it will be featured again in my Top 5 fighters that didn’t get produced video.
The F-20 would be a good and inexpensive plane for nations with a smaller budget, i.e. in Africa or South America. Instead, the Chinese are rolling up the market with their export aircraft.
This is the tragedy of the nation that showed the world how to do business having a government that doesn't understand business at all.
It would be a good fighter for Canada at that time as we was looking for a inexpensive fighter to replace many of our older fighters from the 50s. Plus we built and flew CF 5 Freedom Fighter a Canadian variant of the F5 Freedom Fighter so it would be an easy and inexpensive transition.
The F-20 is one of those aircraft that was an engineering marvel lucked out by eternal factors (politics). Sometimes building an excellent fighter isn't enough as history has shown.
In saying that some of the most successful aircraft in history have follows the philosophy of the Tiger family of fighters. The A4 Skyhawk, not the fastest, high tech or hard hitting, but a cheap and effective workhorse for many militaries.
Great comparison to the A-4...another hugely underrated airplane. Thanks for commenting!
So sad😟
@Joshua N. Ajang possibly, yes.
awesome !! Thanks for the F-20 rundown - too bad this was never produced for ourselves and/or exported. Yes - the full promo video would be great !!
Thank you for the comment! I will release the promo video mid week next week. Upcoming video is on the Eurofighter which comes out Monday. Let me know what you think.
I seem to recall that when Canada was shopping for its next fighter, the F-20 was considered, but they instead went with the F-18 Hornet. This was so, even though the F-20 had all of its cost and simplicity advantages, plus a range, that if memory serves, was double the F-18's.
Which is crazy because if you're trying to police a country the size of Canada, one of your prime considerations is range.
Memory is serving breakfast and its time for the coffee. The U.S. navy did not choose a shorter range than a flea F-20 trainer. An F-18 would kill an F-20 long before its tiny baby radar knew an enemy was in the area. First look first shot, second look second shot, third look no air force left. That is just for starters but with a start like that need we go further? There is a reason the U.S. chooses big planes. Hint: It starts with long range, big R and ends with adar.
Saw one of the last flight demonstrations of the F-20 at China Lake in 1985. Went on to work on F-5 E/F at VA-127 NASF. Beautiful airframe.
this is the jet fighter i adore madly crazily like no other. she was cancelled in 86. india was offered the full program in 89. they said no due to tejas go ahead in 84. india has less than 50 of their demur tejas now.
if the f20 tigershark was built, subtle improvements were planned:
engine power increase of 1k thrust from 17k to 18k
bigger nose/nose radar bulkhead moved back to allow for bigger radar size and bigger detection range
2x 20mm tigerclaw cannons to replace the 2 m39 revolver cowboy guns themselves based on nazi mg213 20mm revolver cowboy guns
bigger wing area for more agility of 220 square feet compared to 185 sq ft
triple actuators on the forward wing flaps replacing the single actuator which would increase turn rates
a bigger mission computer
bigger underwing drop tanks
this could have been put into production f20a/b twin seat models or a c/d twin seat models. all a what if. as the jet was built even today she would be lethal... nevermind an updated e/f model with f414 epe enhanced performance engines of 26k, aesa radar etc etc.
and and and... northrop broke my dark heart 2x. no damn gal ever did that. 1st their darling f20 tigershark, best jet ever built. then this little dear. no details relased on her. she doesnt matter. bin her...
www.militaryfactory.com/aircraft/detail.asp?aircraft_id=1648
Damn if that wasn't the sleekest, sexiest, deadliest looking fighter of all time!
F-20 tiger 🐅shark🦈......too nice video with clearly explaining of producing steps of several types of aircrafts in different places successful using of US aircraft a producing until borne of F-20 tiger shark...🇺🇸🦅👍👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾
Glad you liked it
After going through this video, I strongly feel that the F - 20 was a missed opportunity. Yes, I would like to go through the entire promo video of this fine aircraft. Thanks ...
The jet fighter was so on another plane in flying that it caused a g lock that the air force still doesn't understand today. Which was a bad thing. I wonder if that happens to other pilots?
Best Plane Never Built!!!
I even remember a Pepsi commercial back then that featured Chuck Yeager talking a drink and then the next showed him taking off vertical in an F-20.
Likewise and thanks for commenting!
I remember the AC/DELCO commercial he did with the F5 behind him...
No comments in the video about ranges, inflight refuelling and payload compared to the F-16.
Might find some reasons there why the F-16 was more popular...
I remember as a kid in the 80s reading an article about the F20 and the fact that this aircraft is also offered to our air force even demonstrated as well here in Indonesia (part of a procurement program test in the mid 80s alongside Mirage 2000, Panavia Tornado and F-16) but alas our air force went to select the F-16 instead. 🥺
We were a slave to the US Government then (which was very leaning on the F-16) so it's a no brainer.
As a kid, I remember TV ads with Chuck Yeager flying it.
I truly believe this was a better fighter then the F-16. This thing was way ahead of it's time.
Agreed and thanks for the comment!
Nope, f16 have better aero, and a experimental f16xl, never produced have range and payload to replace the f15e. Modern jets need range, pilots are expensive to loose because a cheap vehicle
how is this better than the F-16?
I do have a soft spot for the F-20..But it was nowhere near as good as the F-16..The F-16 would walk all over it period.
Watched the F-5 series & F-20 videos today, great job! I learned stuff I never knew, like the delta wing F-5, & other early proposals. Thank you.
Thank you so much! If you haven’t yet check out the videos on the F-16 and F-16XL: ua-cam.com/video/6l3Ixa_WmSg/v-deo.html
Great Video. Pity the F-20 never found the market it deserved, looks like it was a beast and a very capable fighter.
Couldn't agree more and thanks for commenting!
2:35 A squadron of Chilean F-5s taking off from Carrasco airport, Montevideo, Uruguay. Then the same squadron is seen in flight. Fantastic combat aircraft, still serving in Brazil, Mexico and Chile, among others.
Indeed and thanks for commenting! The F-5 is a wonderful airplane.
Hell, yeah, I would love to see the promo video in its entirety. Thanks for this short but cool little documentary on this excellent fighter that should have been. And you just made a new subscriber.
Thank you so much! I’ll post the promo video soon, I appreciate you subscribing, more videos on the way
My favorite fighter that never was; I had the privilege to visit Northrup assembly line in LA, circa 1981. It was amazing to see the large autoclaves for making composite panels and wings, ,and the tooling, advanced for that time. It was a real shame, as this may have beaten the F16 in nearly every category, specially performance vs cost of maintenance.
Thank you for commenting and providing us with some insight...its hard to appreciate how advanced the F-20 was for the time, since most of the features it introduced are standard on many fighters now.
In Chile, where we have 16 F5 Tiger III plus (F5E upgraded by IAI) ... the grey ones with the blue stripe in the tail in the video.... we love them, despite our main fleet is F16 block 50/52+....
Glad to hear you like the F-5 in Chile 🇨🇱 thanks for commenting!
A few things- yes, the F20 is pretty. Yes, it is a strikingly capable little jet for it's cost.
But people miss a few things about it: 1) endurance. The jet has tiny internal fuel for that engine. It would need to use most of it's pylon space for fuel, and would lose hugely on performance and weapons load.
While somewhat true of the larger F16 in turn, this hurts the F20 more than the Viper.
2) Airframe lifetime: The F20 airframe is structurally pushing to and arguably beyond the basic design's limits, especially if laden with fuel and proportionately heavier stores. This would have led to major performance limitations on the F20 airframes within a few years of service, compared to the F16 design.
3) The end of an Evolution vs. The beginning:
The F20 shows how far you can takr an F5. It's incredible. But the F20 on day 1 is 99% as far as you can push the design. There's no more room for new systems- it has fit all it can fit. It's a monster in 1987, it'll be obsolete by 2000. The F20 cannot fit a bigger engine or have the electrical generation to add much in modern systems.
F16? F16 at day 1 has a third of it's volume free for upgrades internally. It's designed to be plug and play. It's external body has room for substantial addons like efts and EW kit even a decade later. The airframe isn't even close to maxxed out and will last tens of years if flown at normal payloads and g loadings. The F16 had the ability to take a bigger engine and intake than the base model, adding power both in thrust and electrical generation. It could be viable with AESA and run other systems.
Modern Payload options:
F20 can carry two sparrows. Maybe even four AMRAAM someday. A whole Harpoon missile! (... a Hornet can carry 4.) Two whole mavericks! Or it can carry 3 275 gallon EFTs and rely on guns and wingtip stations. It can drop fuel for a targeting pod! But no Harpoon in that config :(. Max load of external stores? About 10,000 lbs. And you bend your airplane at 3.5gs fully laden. And the wings like to snap off then with little warning. F20 has "no aerodynamic limits" in it's FCS, maximizing maneuvering. Hardcore. Until you pull stick too hard and hit 3.5g and the stores rip off and take the wing with them.
F16?
Up to 4 sparrows (fitted for 2 in some versions)- or six AMRAAM someday. Some variants could go up to 8 BVRAAMs... on paper. Fuel? Smashes the F20: 2 600 gallon and one 300 gallon EFTs- with full 6 AAM loadout. Want mavericks? 4 to 6. Harpoon? HARM? 2. You only lose 2 BVRAAMs for either. And a targeting pod, while losing nothing else. Why not throw in a HARM targeting system for free? Max stores: north of 16,000 lbs. You only bend the plane at 5.5gs fully laden. The wings rarely snap, but give a bit of warning before they do. FCS is optimized to help pilots keep to the G limits of their aircraft loadout: with a handy switch for when you jettison stores.
The F16 costs a bit more. But it -does- a lot more. And can grow without losing much.
F20? It would have been a really cool plane, but would have been retired by 2010.
Viper will be in service till 2040 at the earliest.
Can you please make one detail video about JF-17 please
Yes absolutely plan on making a JF-17 video, thanks for commenting and check my community page for updates.
@@PilotPhotogThank you, thank you, thank you so much sir for listening. You have earned a new sub 😊
Best all around fighter ever built. I remember following the testing of this aircraft in the 80's. I so wanted to see it go into production.
Agreed and thanks for commenting!
Great vídeo! Truly a beatiful machine, and missed opportunity . Still, I belief there is a chance, the Grippen, the JF-17 are a proof.
Agreed and thanks for the comment!
Was stationed in Korea when the F20 crashed...Beautiful plane!
Thank you for your service and it must have been quite a sight in person.
This is easily the best video about the F-20 on all yt, good job. My country's air force considered to buy 18 of this jets to compliment the existing 12 F-5's, but sadly an earthquake hit México City in 1985 and the plan was cancelled. Anyways, awesome video, keep the good job man! 🙂
Javier, I remember that '85 earthquake - devastating. I would have loved to have seen these fly for the Mexican Air Force, thanks for commenting!
The F20 in a modern rendering would be the most cost effective and sustainable aircraft flown,allowing many nations to purchase more of them per aircraft cost,so instead if buying 12 buy 18 more bang for your buck! Especially in the guise of the X29 a FSW version of the F5/20
Most argue the Gripen-E to be the ultimate F-20 what if, I can see where they are coming from sometimes despite the fact that the Jas-39E doesn't share any lineage with the Tigershark except the F404 engine which was the predecessor the F414 which powers the Gripen.
Grippen and JF17 look like F20 tigershark, this is best complement 👍
JF17 is copy of failed russian design that too a Chinese copy. Showpiece tin can. It will drop like a fly. F20 looks promising and not to be compared with shit copy jet. It's like comparing Marcedes with Chinese copy cat car.
@@vinayakkadolkar89
Did you see JF17 block 3 generation 4.5 helmet + BVR + aesa radar 180km .... they were busy with improving + low cost.
JF-17 is equal to F16 block 52+
@@vinayakkadolkar89 before putting your nonsense commenting go throgh all comments everyone is talking about grippen and jf17 as good planes they are not pakistanis. You indians get your hal teajuice to work.
@@vinayakkadolkar89 before putting your nonsense commenting go throgh all comments everyone is talking about grippen and jf17 as good planes they are not pakistanis. You indians get your hal teajuice to work.
@@vinayakkadolkar89 ... The tea was fantastic 😂😂😂😂😂
I hope the Philippines will buy this kind of fighter jet.
Agreed and thanks for commenting!
Both the F5 and F20 are beautiful. I remembered there was another aircraft the X29 which is also similar to the F20 except for the wings.
Great vid. Would love too see that Northrop vid.
Cool Video like usually.
Thank you much appreciated!
Chuck Yeager loved the F20
I'm building a 1:144 scale model of the Tigershark. The video helps me with the detailing. Thanks.
Awesome! If you don’t mind post a link here when you are done, I’d love to see it.
I saw this plane at the Farnborough airshow many years ago.
Absolutely awesome!
That must have been an amazing sight!
@@PilotPhotog. It was indeed. Very fast and agile and pretty noisy from what I can remember. All the things a good fighter jet should be .
F20 kicked the F16s butt in air to air trials.
That's what I heard as well, thanks for commenting!
@@PilotPhotog similar story to the Lavi. Go into that. Also a beast of an aircraft that never was.
So many of us love this aircraft. I still remember hearing about those crashes as an 11 year old. There was one article that said something about the low wing design was more difficult for weapons loading and maintenance access than the higher wing style of the F-16 and F-18. This was allegedly a factor with potential buyers. There was no automatic canopy either. In any case, this aircraft seems to have an almost cult like following. A very aestetically beautiful aircraft for sure. I still have the promotional color brochures about this plane from the 84 time period somewhere in a box. Thank you for this documentary.
Yes very overrated, it had many shortcomings.
I was a big fan of this plane in the 80’s. Too bad it never went into production.
Agreed and thanks for commenting!
I was just a kid during this time but my uncle worked at Northrup and gave my brother and I F20 Tigershark promotional T-shirts in the early 1980s
What’s the reason more countries didn’t adapt the F-20?
From my understanding one of the reasons was that since the USAF didn’t adopt it other nations were hesitant to. Thanks for commenting!
PilotPhotog Thx!
The F-16 and the F-5 are 2 of my all time favourite fighters particularly because of their shape. When it was released, I discovered that the F-20 was the new improved version of the F-5 and I was instantly hooked. I have always wondered what could have been. I would have loved to see a dogfight between the F-16 and the F-20.
Great plane, and the success of the current Jas39 Gripen shows that there was plenty of space for such a small and economic but capable plane.
Agreed and thanks for commenting!
Northrop's experience with the F-20 and YF-23 is a good lesson for other US MIC companies to put less money into R&D and more into marketing. It's also a good lesson not to pitch your aircraft as cheap and affordable. Pentagon might have been more sympathetic had they marketed it as an expensive gadget.
God I love this channel! It’s awesome!
Thank you so much!
Gorgeous Aircraft.
Yeah man
Sounds like a great aircraft
This is my all time favorite family ot fighters..the Northrop Midgit forever in my heart..
Thanks for commenting and I am working on more videos on the F-5
Yet another excellent video, Thanks!
A few thoughts:
Not only the JF-17 is - in a sense - an iteration of the F-20 concept. Also JAS-39A/B/C/D and finally the E-variant of Gripen. The aircraft may not look similar due to the delta canard configuration, but the radical emphasis on low operating cost, excellent performance, extensive use of composite materials, datalink and state of the art sensors is what you have to look for. Sadly, the Korean T-50 - with the aid of Lockheed Martin) is also an iteration of the same concept. And they al share the same lineage of engines: the GE F-404 and its more powerful cousin the GE F-414.
US industry and US forces seem to have little regard for operating cost. For industry low maintenance means less spareparts to sell and thus dwindling profits. And for the air forces - which, according to a renowned professor in political science, Niskanen - are just like bureaucrats, set to maximizing their budgets - lower cost means smaller budgets. The higher you climb in military hierarchy, the more you are forced to think as a bureaucrat and less as a fighting soldier. The F-35 being a prime example: it's a political/bureaucratic aircraft in a way, as its manufacturing is spread around the country (and globe) to ensure political support. The reports of the Director OT&E (dr. Gilmore) and US GAO were condemning of the programme decades in a row, yet no one dared to kill the programme. That is the US MIC at work, against which Eisenhower warned. Not that the F-35 is a lousy aircraft, but it has been poorly managed, government oversight has collapsed and the costs have spiraled.
Thanks for the comment and the analysis...my very next video is all about the top 5 aircraft that should have been produced, the F-20 is on that list. Let me know what you think when it comes out.
@@PilotPhotog I will, thanks.
For your information: I'm Dutch, have a masters degree in Public Administration specialized (or majored as I think you'd call it in the US or Canada) in strategic studies, international policy and international relations. Did some research work at the Dutch MoD/staff of the Dutch equivalent of the Chief of Staff at the MSA (Military Strategic Affairs) but never quite had the opportunity to stay due to many and severe budget cuts from 1990 onwards (some people here thought it to be a good idea to cash in on the 'peace dividend...' Been working as an ordinary civil servant ever since, yet with a keen interest in military affairs, military history, strategy, military technology, etc. I'm not an aviation specialist but I've got a few friends who have (for example a ret. Col. RNLAF who has flown almost every jet in the Dutch inventory from the early 1960ies onward and a masters degree in aerospace engineering among others). And a few former US aviators (USMC and USN, who have flown A-4's and F-4's in Vietnam). That's where I get my intel from and I cannot tell you, what a joy it is to be in their company.
And how much I appreciate your videos, which seem to been mad with the same 'madness' for the subject as we all share.
But please do not regard me as a subject matter expert, I'm more of a reasonably informed civilian and with an infantry background (served as a conscript) to make matters worse. Nevertheless: my sincere compliments and hope to learn more from you!
Cheers and kind regards!
I think the Gripen was highly influenced by the F-20. Especially as it was shortlisted as probably the best successor to the Viggensystem back in the early eighties.
Great video. Thanks for posting
Thank you! I've got a couple more on the F-5 series coming out soon, I appreciate your comment and let me know what you think when the next ones in the series are released.
I saw the Northrop F-20 Tigershark N4416T at The Farnborough Airshow in 1984.
It was flown by Darrell Cornell and was easily the best flying display of that year and was far better than the F-16.
Sadly it crashed later in the year, in Korea, killing Darrell.
I would have loved to have seen it and RIP Darrell. Thanks for commenting!
Really interesting video man, thank you so much for your up-load. Looking forwards to the Typhoon. Go safe, stay cool.
Thank you so much and you stay safe as well, let me know what you think of the Typhoon video - it drops on Monday.
F-20 was truly a superb fighter jet. It's sad to see the demise of such plane and its equivalent like the Israeli's Lavi in the hands of politics. However, Nortrop should definitely consider restarting the F20 program.
In an unusual way, KAI and Lockheed-Martin built a facsimile thereof. They designed the T-50/FA-50 with so much similarity in design. The base model has a top speed of Mach 1.5, but the largest engine is greater than Mach 1.9. It's a light fighter with more electronic capability, but still easy to maintain. It's the plane many Asian nations have bought, plus Iraq, Poland, Peru, and soon to be sold to other Eastern European nations.. Still it is the top selling light fighter and trainer in the world at this time. All was not lost with the F-20.
Politics killed it...
I love the F-16 but this was clearly a direct challenge to the Falcon both in performance and operating costs...too bad.
Nice videos keep it up!
Thank you and likewise, the F-16 is an amazing airplane in its own right but I feel there could have been room for the F-20 as well.
Too nice video about Tiger 🐅🦈shark 💪💪thanks
Glad you enjoyed it and thanks for commenting
@@PilotPhotog thanks with pleasure 👍
I read an article in The New Republic about the F-20 a long time ago. One drawback it mentioned was that the F-20 didn't have the range of the F-16. Maybe they could have built a few hundred F-20's to take care of the nearby targets. It said in that article that we should produce around 800 F-20's for our own market and for the export market. It said that the original idea for the F-20 was to give developing nations the chance to acquire a top of the line fighter for not much money. To be honest, I think the reason there wasn't much demand for the F-20 was similar to why people want hot sports cars. They don't want economical, they want the best, and the F-20 couldn't escape its identity as being second to the F-16. I guess the F-20 is still a workable idea. If we built a couple of thousand of them for our own need and for the export market we could get a lot of capability for not much money. The military doesn't do enough of that. If the U.S. had a good number of F-20's in its arsenal it might escape the identity of being second best.
The YF-23 and F-20, the dynamic duo that never was.
I was thought there are 3 answers to all questions in the military: Yes sir, no sir, no excuser sir. This is a bigno excuser sir. Even if we had built them and used them in our own aggressor squadrons this plane should have been built PERIOD.
The F-20 Tiger Shark is by far my favorite fighter jet of all time. It really should have been produced and sold worldwide. No doubt it would probably still be in service today.
I can only scratch my head as to why not even one air force took a chance with it!
As I recall foreign buyers loved the plane but they were skeptical of it because the US Air Force didn't buy it.
Pakistan is always been flying US made fighters and falling in love with these jets ....when JF 17 program was in progress the aim was some what close to F16 and copy concepts of F 20 and some other US jets ....if you look closer to JF you can even identify these points that are common ...US planes are always best the air force can get ...
It would have been a very effective and efficient Fighter for the US Military and our military lost out because it wasn't adopted f-16s are great fighter but it's not as economical is the F20 was I would have liked very much to see it fly in our air forces and see its progress and development over the years . Northrop has always built very very good aircraft
Agreed and thanks for commenting!