It doesn't make much sense the acquittal of genocide in the first count. The legal test they said they relied on was whether the Bosnian Muslims in EACH municipality qualified as a substantial part of a protected group, however the indictment was directed as to whether or not the Bosnian Muslims in the municipalities COMBINED, with confluence of time and events qualified. Also the test they applied appropriately, was a)whether the act of genocide was committed (to which case law of the ICTY states a positive finding of the actus reus in municipalities. If the trial chamber appropriately assessed the actus reus as they said, and the means rea (which already alone requires a impact "assessment" (Krstic Appeal) and substantial part test, is part of the mens rea. They appropriately applied the two mens rea and actus reus test together regarding Srebrenica, and didn't add another separate test to that judgement. They added an unnecessary separate analysis, that the findings of the actus reus, and mens rea being satisfied, together with the Karadzic 98BiS Appeal findings addressing the municipalities and the finding "a reasonable trier of fact could conclude beyond reasonable doubt, assuming evidence to be credible, the accused guilty beyond reasoned doubt. If they find the principal perpetrators, and physical perpetrators held this intent and carried it out in other appeals and by this judgement, is something even Krstic didn't have (a defined physical principal perpetrator, but concluded "aiding and abetting" was satisfied. Mladic obviously provided substantial, aid, planned, cooperated, and carried out acts, with the perpetrators, and could not be found to not have aided and abetted. Also, the protected part at question is, larger then the part defined in Srebrenica, and critically located or connected to those events. Without the genocidal operations in the Krajina and Drina Valley (Eastern Bosnia), of 1992, which were significant enough to eliminate large parts of the group, and the Srebrenica massacre, none would qualify as genocide in my opinion without the other. The events of Srebrenica were the culmination of a previous genocidal event in specifically 6 municipalities and their environs. The group was inappropriately divided in size for judgement, and given their judgement was the same test legally as to the one for Srebrenica explained, a reasonable trier of fact could certainly conclude, (using appropriate test, the appeals chamber doesn't examine the evidence regarding mostly factual findings (unless its absurd). If their factual findings, are that (like other appeals) the groups in all six municipalities and surrounding areas were subjected to acts of genocide, and the trial chamber finds physical perpetrators to hold that intent, and the municipalities are assessed in conjunction to each other and other crimes. They would have to conclude a reasoned trier of fact (Karadzic, Krajisnik, Brdanin etc.) could conclude beyond reasonable doubt that genocide was committed, confluent to Persecutions and forced transfers in a wider area. It would be appropriate to cite JCE III liability, as was it reasonable to foresee the crime of genocide upon orders, and plans to conduct Persecutors, exterminations, murders, confinements, property destruction, and forced removal. It also shows the problem of assuming "complicity in genocide", was equatable to "aiding and abetting". He, is one of the highest level persons, and in a place that testing for complicity, is very appropriate. If he was participating in a JCE with extermination, and other inhumane acts committed, would have likely foresaw that mass persecutions and murders, extermination, or such massive violence could result in the crime of genocide. In the municipalities, the trial chamber is essentially saying it did, and his liability for Persecutions, extermination etc. don't require a finding of being a principal perpetrator, to conclude he being aware of their conduct, and engaged in cooperating, coordinating, and information provided to him, may not intend to aid a genocide, but if foreseeable, and he cooperates, without any attempts to refrain from assisting the crimes, would be complicit in the commission of genocide. Appeals courts dont wander far from the trial chamber, and I wouldn't expect them to carry out a full reexamination of events, but to find it was inappropriately segregated geographically and by legal test, and in review given the case law regarding actus reus, the Karadzic 98BiS appeals finding of ''could be found guilty beyond reasoned doubt", and this trials majority finding, is established beyond reasonable doubt, the intent...its only reasonable to find, yes a reasoned trier of fact could be satisfied beyond reasonable doubt of the chambers findings, and given his JCE membership, and specific crimes, aided and abetted, or was Complicit in the Commission of Genocide.
There is a marked reluctance to extend genocide beyond Srebrenica by international courts. Of course, any such verdicts prior to Srebrenica would bring more unwanted attention on the activities of international types at that time. But conceptually it makes no sense to argue that genocide in Bosnia was limited to Srebrenica, it's like saying that the Shoah only took place in Auschwitz.
This is one of the most successfully tribunals, agree or not in history. All 162 tried, their see improvements to be made, but if you think of the suffering and crimes committed in Syria and West Iraq since 2011, particularly by Assad and ISIS too, for them they have got nothing, and no air campaign, I mean Assad’s beyond heinous and his Air Force general and Security Chief as well, This court acquitted many people who likely in my option should not have been, like Peresic, and some of the counts under Article 3, and superior responsibility for Ante Gotovina and others for Operation Storm, it was not a planned ethnic cleansing, but knowledge of the risk to civilians, and the failure to punish the crimes committed by subordinate soldiers existed. The court usually and ultimately in my opinion did strive to be as just and fair minded as possible if their should be a 1-70 year numeric sentencing, reparation fines, and probation/house arrest imposed, the sentences usually should be 10 years longer imo Dordevic should be seeing a 28 year sentence, NOT 18. There are circumstances in my opinion regarding a reluctance to invoke Serbia as a state, or risk their legal culpability for the crime of genocide. It is very bizarre how count 1, is dismissed...over twenty two years evidence is discovered and entered into new evidence and this can force changes in legal findings. I always was of the understanding that the “Dolus”, was a part of the mens rea and actus reus analysis as the judgement applied it’s Srebrenica verdict in such a manner, but courts when they find the actus reus for genocide satisfied, they have concluded that a substantial part of the protected group at least, physically and tangibly causing significant impact in some way upon the entire group. The first count, was indictment for genocide committed in multiple municipalities in 1992, is best consolidated with the Srebrenica indictment, as if the perpetrators had this intent to destroy a substantial part of the group, which they applied such standard to Srebrenica, the proper standard, it’s likely they applied not only this standard, but an impermissibly higher standard that when taken into account the 98BiS Karadzic appeals ruling, the Krajisnik and Milosevic 98BiS findings all conform actus reus under this count, that a reasonable tried of fact could establish guilty beyond reasonable doubt. Maybe the defense successfully convinced them, but they applied an extra standard not ever applied before and essentially appeared to find him guilty of the first count. The largest mass grave in Bosnia is located in Prijedor, the string of detention camps in Bosnia’s Krajina, and it’s geographic significance to the SAO Krajina is clear, the mass scale acts of extermination and stages of literary/academic definitions of genocidal stages was applied in them. The JCE it appears considering the continued Persecutory acts, military operations, Siege of Sarajevo, and constant engagement does not mean their plan and the criminal enterprise did not exist, it continued and the second count was simply an extension of the first JCE, the completion of the first JCE in the east in the Srebrenica safe area/Drina Valley of Bosnia. However all Bosniaks in Bosnia know parties who perished in either the Krajina, Sarajaveo, and the Drina Valley area around Srebrenica. The execution of the first was in both the Northwest and East, and is a larger targeted group then Srebrenica, as well as death toll, numbering 21,000 in those months only in 1992, 8,000 around Srebrenica. Roughly 4,000 Bosnian Civilians in Sarajevo, another 3,000 in ethnic cleansings in other areas. To me it’s similar to saying, you are not guilty of grand theft, for stealing 6 cars that all add up to over the required limit, but ruling that each car didn’t add up to the limit, so the perpetrators are not guilty. The Bosnian Croats did not appear to be addressed, and they were ruled previously to have been possible victims of genocide due to the demographic distribution of that population, but that was only one time. Genocide is hard to find anyone guilty of and should be. ISIS even though many believe will be found guilty of genocide, doesn’t likely satisfy the actus reus for it, perhaps the requirements of “attempt to commit genocide and thus conspiracy to commit genocide”, but likely Persecutions, Extermination possibly, Murder, Inhumane Acts, Forced Transfer of Population, Enslavement, Torture, Sexual Violence and Terror, Willful Killing, Willfully Causing Great Sufferings (a serious crime imo overlooked, requiring knowledge with long term depraved mindset, recklessly or intentionally inflicting suffering upon highly large populations beyond that of an “average” or common armed conflict and war criminal. It requires the suffering be severe, and effect a populace large enough as a result of their intent or a JCE, as to use the sufferings to further their individual or collective purpose at the expense of groups effecting regional populations or extended periods of time. It should be a very grave crime), Assad may very well have committed genocide as the scale of atrocities require systematic targeting of Sunni, Kurdish, or Assyrian populations based on their ethnicity, suspected as opposition, and deprived by destruction and detention, conditions to survive under.
Also ISIS didn't do their crimes based on ethnicity or religion : they just killed innocent civilians with thir bomb attacks It's not like in Yugoslavia or Nazi Germany where people were killed for being member of an ethnicity or a religion
Same for Assad : he did war crimes but it's not genocide, because the people killed were just killed through mass bombings For Assad it's the equivalent of the american generals who ordered to bomb Dresden in WWII, so it's more complex to judge him
Whatever happened was terrible but genocide is termination of whole nation including women and children and its proven that general Mladic saved women and children and most man. Most man were killed in action around srebrenica not by firing squad saying tht it was terrible war and everyone suffered
Yeah but if it happened to your country you wouldve said “DEATH SENTENCE!!!! DEATH SENTENCE!!!!”. You dont have any empathy for the men and boys murdered, and women raped.
what was Mladić saying from 7:28 to 8:02
8:04LOL
Even if you are israeli i agree with you here
It doesn't make much sense the acquittal of genocide in the first count. The legal test they said they relied on was whether the Bosnian Muslims in EACH municipality qualified as a substantial part of a protected group, however the indictment was directed as to whether or not the Bosnian Muslims in the municipalities COMBINED, with confluence of time and events qualified. Also the test they applied appropriately, was a)whether the act of genocide was committed (to which case law of the ICTY states a positive finding of the actus reus in municipalities. If the trial chamber appropriately assessed the actus reus as they said, and the means rea (which already alone requires a impact "assessment" (Krstic Appeal) and substantial part test, is part of the mens rea. They appropriately applied the two mens rea and actus reus test together regarding Srebrenica, and didn't add another separate test to that judgement. They added an unnecessary separate analysis, that the findings of the actus reus, and mens rea being satisfied, together with the Karadzic 98BiS Appeal findings addressing the municipalities and the finding "a reasonable trier of fact could conclude beyond reasonable doubt, assuming evidence to be credible, the accused guilty beyond reasoned doubt. If they find the principal perpetrators, and physical perpetrators held this intent and carried it out in other appeals and by this judgement, is something even Krstic didn't have (a defined physical principal perpetrator, but concluded "aiding and abetting" was satisfied. Mladic obviously provided substantial, aid, planned, cooperated, and carried out acts, with the perpetrators, and could not be found to not have aided and abetted. Also, the protected part at question is, larger then the part defined in Srebrenica, and critically located or connected to those events. Without the genocidal operations in the Krajina and Drina Valley (Eastern Bosnia), of 1992, which were significant enough to eliminate large parts of the group, and the Srebrenica massacre, none would qualify as genocide in my opinion without the other. The events of Srebrenica were the culmination of a previous genocidal event in specifically 6 municipalities and their environs. The group was inappropriately divided in size for judgement, and given their judgement was the same test legally as to the one for Srebrenica explained, a reasonable trier of fact could certainly conclude, (using appropriate test, the appeals chamber doesn't examine the evidence regarding mostly factual findings (unless its absurd). If their factual findings, are that (like other appeals) the groups in all six municipalities and surrounding areas were subjected to acts of genocide, and the trial chamber finds physical perpetrators to hold that intent, and the municipalities are assessed in conjunction to each other and other crimes. They would have to conclude a reasoned trier of fact (Karadzic, Krajisnik, Brdanin etc.) could conclude beyond reasonable doubt that genocide was committed, confluent to Persecutions and forced transfers in a wider area. It would be appropriate to cite JCE III liability, as was it reasonable to foresee the crime of genocide upon orders, and plans to conduct Persecutors, exterminations, murders, confinements, property destruction, and forced removal. It also shows the problem of assuming "complicity in genocide", was equatable to "aiding and abetting". He, is one of the highest level persons, and in a place that testing for complicity, is very appropriate. If he was participating in a JCE with extermination, and other inhumane acts committed, would have likely foresaw that mass persecutions and murders, extermination, or such massive violence could result in the crime of genocide. In the municipalities, the trial chamber is essentially saying it did, and his liability for Persecutions, extermination etc. don't require a finding of being a principal perpetrator, to conclude he being aware of their conduct, and engaged in cooperating, coordinating, and information provided to him, may not intend to aid a genocide, but if foreseeable, and he cooperates, without any attempts to refrain from assisting the crimes, would be complicit in the commission of genocide. Appeals courts dont wander far from the trial chamber, and I wouldn't expect them to carry out a full reexamination of events, but to find it was inappropriately segregated geographically and by legal test, and in review given the case law regarding actus reus, the Karadzic 98BiS appeals finding of ''could be found guilty beyond reasoned doubt", and this trials majority finding, is established beyond reasonable doubt, the intent...its only reasonable to find, yes a reasoned trier of fact could be satisfied beyond reasonable doubt of the chambers findings, and given his JCE membership, and specific crimes, aided and abetted, or was Complicit in the Commission of Genocide.
There is a marked reluctance to extend genocide beyond Srebrenica by international courts. Of course, any such verdicts prior to Srebrenica would bring more unwanted attention on the activities of international types at that time.
But conceptually it makes no sense to argue that genocide in Bosnia was limited to Srebrenica, it's like saying that the Shoah only took place in Auschwitz.
This is one of the most successfully tribunals, agree or not in history. All 162 tried, their see improvements to be made, but if you think of the suffering and crimes committed in Syria and West Iraq since 2011, particularly by Assad and ISIS too, for them they have got nothing, and no air campaign, I mean Assad’s beyond heinous and his Air Force general and Security Chief as well, This court acquitted many people who likely in my option should not have been, like Peresic, and some of the counts under Article 3, and superior responsibility for Ante Gotovina and others for Operation Storm, it was not a planned ethnic cleansing, but knowledge of the risk to civilians, and the failure to punish the crimes committed by subordinate soldiers existed. The court usually and ultimately in my opinion did strive to be as just and fair minded as possible if their should be a 1-70 year numeric sentencing, reparation fines, and probation/house arrest imposed, the sentences usually should be 10 years longer imo Dordevic should be seeing a 28 year sentence, NOT 18. There are circumstances in my opinion regarding a reluctance to invoke Serbia as a state, or risk their legal culpability for the crime of genocide. It is very bizarre how count 1, is dismissed...over twenty two years evidence is discovered and entered into new evidence and this can force changes in legal findings. I always was of the understanding that the “Dolus”, was a part of the mens rea and actus reus analysis as the judgement applied it’s Srebrenica verdict in such a manner, but courts when they find the actus reus for genocide satisfied, they have concluded that a substantial part of the protected group at least, physically and tangibly causing significant impact in some way upon the entire group. The first count, was indictment for genocide committed in multiple municipalities in 1992, is best consolidated with the Srebrenica indictment, as if the perpetrators had this intent to destroy a substantial part of the group, which they applied such standard to Srebrenica, the proper standard, it’s likely they applied not only this standard, but an impermissibly higher standard that when taken into account the 98BiS Karadzic appeals ruling, the Krajisnik and Milosevic 98BiS findings all conform actus reus under this count, that a reasonable tried of fact could establish guilty beyond reasonable doubt. Maybe the defense successfully convinced them, but they applied an extra standard not ever applied before and essentially appeared to find him guilty of the first count. The largest mass grave in Bosnia is located in Prijedor, the string of detention camps in Bosnia’s Krajina, and it’s geographic significance to the SAO Krajina is clear, the mass scale acts of extermination and stages of literary/academic definitions of genocidal stages was applied in them. The JCE it appears considering the continued Persecutory acts, military operations, Siege of Sarajevo, and constant engagement does not mean their plan and the criminal enterprise did not exist, it continued and the second count was simply an extension of the first JCE, the completion of the first JCE in the east in the Srebrenica safe area/Drina Valley of Bosnia. However all Bosniaks in Bosnia know parties who perished in either the Krajina, Sarajaveo, and the Drina Valley area around Srebrenica. The execution of the first was in both the Northwest and East, and is a larger targeted group then Srebrenica, as well as death toll, numbering 21,000 in those months only in 1992, 8,000 around Srebrenica. Roughly 4,000 Bosnian Civilians in Sarajevo, another 3,000 in ethnic cleansings in other areas. To me it’s similar to saying, you are not guilty of grand theft, for stealing 6 cars that all add up to over the required limit, but ruling that each car didn’t add up to the limit, so the perpetrators are not guilty. The Bosnian Croats did not appear to be addressed, and they were ruled previously to have been possible victims of genocide due to the demographic distribution of that population, but that was only one time. Genocide is hard to find anyone guilty of and should be. ISIS even though many believe will be found guilty of genocide, doesn’t likely satisfy the actus reus for it, perhaps the requirements of “attempt to commit genocide and thus conspiracy to commit genocide”, but likely Persecutions, Extermination possibly, Murder, Inhumane Acts, Forced Transfer of Population, Enslavement, Torture, Sexual Violence and Terror, Willful Killing, Willfully Causing Great Sufferings (a serious crime imo overlooked, requiring knowledge with long term depraved mindset, recklessly or intentionally inflicting suffering upon highly large populations beyond that of an “average” or common armed conflict and war criminal. It requires the suffering be severe, and effect a populace large enough as a result of their intent or a JCE, as to use the sufferings to further their individual or collective purpose at the expense of groups effecting regional populations or extended periods of time. It should be a very grave crime), Assad may very well have committed genocide as the scale of atrocities require systematic targeting of Sunni, Kurdish, or Assyrian populations based on their ethnicity, suspected as opposition, and deprived by destruction and detention, conditions to survive under.
what happened to the croat generals whom killed 4k serbs?
Most isis leaders are kia so there is noone to trial
@@bigguy9825 ivića got trialed also
Also ISIS didn't do their crimes based on ethnicity or religion : they just killed innocent civilians with thir bomb attacks
It's not like in Yugoslavia or Nazi Germany where people were killed for being member of an ethnicity or a religion
Same for Assad : he did war crimes but it's not genocide, because the people killed were just killed through mass bombings
For Assad it's the equivalent of the american generals who ordered to bomb Dresden in WWII, so it's more complex to judge him
Ils sont très bien payé aussi ceux là
🇷🇺🇷🇸❤️🙏
Whatever happened was terrible but genocide is termination of whole nation including women and children and its proven that general Mladic saved women and children and most man. Most man were killed in action around srebrenica not by firing squad saying tht it was terrible war and everyone suffered
Mr srb jeli ti to baba pricala da je Mladic spasavao zene djecu I ljude .Didd you grandma tell you that mladic saved women children and men 🙄
If you call having rape concentration camps "saving" women, then sure :)
Od svaka strana je bilo isto. To svij znaijmo.
HAG ILEGAL
Bio je hrabar da ubija decu i civile i zarobljenike poslo se krio po mišjevim rupama da ga ne hapse dosta je ovo o heroju
All other officers from Bosnian muslim and croat army where released, only serbs, this is not normal!
It is like they decided to be biased against the murderers and they let the victims go free
Judging by what you are saying, i think you are not normal.
This is about the genocides he commited, can you not shut the fuck up about politics? goddamn mf
Bosnian and croats got also trialed
@@kadduponka3565 😂
Херој!
Yeah but if it happened to your country you wouldve said “DEATH SENTENCE!!!! DEATH SENTENCE!!!!”. You dont have any empathy for the men and boys murdered, and women raped.
Popišaj se na tvog heroja
🇽🇰🇽🇰🇽🇰🇽🇰🇽🇰🇽🇰🇽🇰🇽🇰
@Hugh Mungus yes
Srbja je Kosovo
@Hugh Mungus serbia is a province of kosovo
Eto srbi sta smo dozvolili 5.oktobar sve posle svaki predsednik je bio izabran od ovog suda
Pakosni nato sad ce dobiti od rusije