It's like the devs haven't played their own game. It's not like the lowest difficulty is easy as a fresh assault. You still die very easily when there's a group of 5 majoris. With skill you can dance around and take them out, but a melta or lasfusil do that in a fraction without even being in any danger.
I really hope they take feedback like this into consideration when balancing the classes. Shame to see such a gap between them. Let's hope they don't straight up nerf the good ones to be equal to the bad ones. Thank you for putting this together.
Maxed out tactical with melta. proceed to join with randoms and have been accused of hacking as this weapon deletes entire waves of mobs with 2-3 shots. 😅
Even better if you manage to kill a boss before they can even make a move. You can literally kill a carnifex before he gets to finish his spawn animation lol
This guy had the best input about classes on darktide so I already know he knows his shit on this game. And I knew he was coming for my assault :( It’s the sad truth but damn do I love the hammer so I’m going to keep swinging until it’s better
@@TannerLindberg I’ll also add that I’ve noticed the hammer is basically a full tier behind in damage. Tier 3 only feels good on difficulty 2. Majoris and up eat your pool noodle strikes on 3 and don’t even get me started on difficulty 4. They just need to shift the tiers down and make an even stronger tier 4.
Who cares man just play what you find fun, if people complain then they should play an actual competitive game or play with their own friends. I like to play vanguard cause the grapple is fun and I like their customization the best not because of the melta or other reasons
Don't worry. Hammer and melee will definitely buff. Just enjoy what you like now. The game will add higher difficulty later. When you need like 5-6shots melta to kill a warrior types enemies or 2-3 shots to kill the small ones while you have only 20s ammo, you will find that melta is not such OP.
Not only did I walk away with the most knowledge I’ve got from a SM2 video. But now I also know what it feels like to be reprimanded by your father. Thanks dad ❤️
@@TannerLindbergI dig the PvP so I can't wait for the upload,. With a bit of balancing I think I will see myself going PvP more often than operations lol. Also Im curious, what is your opinion on melee combat in sm2? Love your content :)
Appreciate your vid, have also checked out your darktide stuff some months back too which really helped my Vet game play. Thanks for the breakdown so early into the release, consider me sold on the melta weps.
Followed your guide for darktide. Now im here. I lucked out and started with heavy and sniper. Consistently doing min 15k ranged dmg with melta. Havent touched melee classes yet.
Do you think the damage values of melee are working as intended? I have all the relic thunder hammers and chains swords and notice that if I use a 4 damage white name hammer then compare it to a relic one it takes the same amount of swings to kill even with the damage perks. It’s like the damage values aren’t real.
Me and buddies have been farming hundreds of hive tyrants for sports and at this point we all agree that the only way to play assault is to treat yourself as a reusable grenade, basically just do a jump slam on anything you want to spend a grenade on. Which brings another issue, you're burning ability charges to do what other classes can easily achieve with just weapons, and that pretty much paints the whole picture for it.
To be honest, with assault you can basically one shot the elites if you use the perk where they take 10% increased damage from all sources after being hit by your melee and combining that with the gunstrike 50% increase. Obviously the main issue with this though is that you’re waiting for a parry or perfect dodge to land your gunstrike while a tactical can just come over and obliterate that enemy while you’re waiting lol
Also you actually have to try, use a finesse knife and the easier parry skill on vanguard… you can’t get hurt in melee and even then melta heal. Oh and if for some reason your less than 50% hp your perfect didge is doubled (assault gets 50%) so by being 50% hp or less which isn’t a problem for you then you get to be an assault while doing everything better. The only think assault does well is gun strikes to get armour which is a low bar.
just an idea for a video maybe you could do something like your thoughts or ideas to make the pve mode better or class buff ideas i dunno. love the video tho keep it up
Great video , I was having issues starting out , highest now is level 15, started as bulwark, noticed my melts was so helpful I could do the next difficulty and even have stims left over , melta besides healing just deletes waves, and waves are what ruin your run , you skill bosses and tough mobs , but when you get those 30+ waves, and run out of roll room . For people starting out, strongly suggest melta weapon on any class that can use it , huge difference. I really hope they don’t nerf melta, and buff mele some
HP is "broken" on all of the weapons, not just Melta. If you'll hit multiple enemies with one shot, you'll get healed a bunch, even if it'll be a few headshots with a bolter round. Melta is just the easiest weapon to abuse that bug, cuz it deals 53252352 damage per shot. The way it works is, you get healed for ALL the damage that comes from your single shot, no matter how much temp health you have. Assault is a Gun Strike machine (Gun Strike aura), you can easily solo clear anything just by perfect dodging and gun striking everyone. Still, shit class. Is melee bad? Absolutely, you weapon is just a parry stat-stick. But with the fencing T4 power sword and a bottom perk row (50% Rake damage) you can parry anyone, clear hordes, and 3-4 shot elites. You should try it, it's actually pretty good, at least for solo pushing it is. Also, a power fist with the bottom row would be OP, only if perks and damage increases fucking WORKED. You can spam your cannon-punch and it could be a melee melta, but none of the damage works on it, for some fucking reason.
you dont even have to reach max level to see this, you equip the melta or lasrifle once to see how much it stomps every other ranged wep and you know this video is just 100% facts
Heya Tanner, good video and good insights! Helps me decide what to level next with my limited time, thanks! 😉 Btw, not sure if you tried it yet but don't sleep on the Tactical's Bolt Rifle. Did a solo run with it and it's pretty nuts.
Honestly all they need to do is fix melee by buffing damage or give the assault a lifesteal type situation when in melee. Then all classes would be perfectly balanced and fun
I just got my second character max being bull after I did heavy first where I unlocked all the cosmetics and I thought I was a grinder. This guy doesn’t sleep.
What I got from this is: bring the melta rifle down just a hair, it can be really powerful, but there should be more tradeoff for using it. And also buff melee damage in general.
Either that, or just make the enemies in Max Difficultly not so Bullet/ Damage Spongy. Make their health stay the same as the Substantial Difficulty, keep their current Max Diff damage and increase their number of combatants per wave to offset the decreased health. And, give the Melta and Multi-Melta an overheat mechanic. Like the other heavy weapons have. Like for example, make it so the Meltas can shoot up to three shots in quick succession, but that third will cause an overheat. Anything on the business end of the Meltas are usually dead anyway after two or three shots, even in current high difficulty. And because unless I am wrong, the Meltas don’t have one and the fact they are the highest damage dealing weapons with no overheat, just makes them the defacto best weapon for classes capable of using them, which we are seeing as of right now. These changes will all simultaneously make Melee classes more viable, more weapons able to compete over player choice, and create a theme for the heavy weapons in that they all are high risk, high reward weapons that deal big damage, but can’t be used with reckless abandon, spamming to no end.
This is actually very helpful for me. At first I went all in on tactical (Level 10) before starting to look at other classes. I kinda hated Assault, I too realized that using the plasma gun was better for Bulwark (Lv 4), and then played as sniper (Lv. 5) and as soon as I tried La Fusil I had a new favorite weapon. I'll definitely keep using Sniper and Tactical from here on.
Would you nerf things or buff the classes and weapons that aren’t as powerful? Do you see the broken aspects of the tactical, heavy, and sniper as something to fix?
The only question is if the devs will pull a Helldivers and nerf strong weapons instead of buff weak weapons. Guess I'm going to level my melta classes while I can
It sucks that melee is so underwhelming in this game. Like thematically I love melee classes like the assault class but mechanically they suck. They need to buff melee very badly.
I agree, if your going to have the Melta doing so well lore accuracy is appreciated thou, melee should be buffed the risk reward mechanic makes it inefficient to play anything without a melta in higher difficulties, you can still play whatever but you know we love the game enough to want to make it better
what perks do you run on the regular melta for tactical and the multi-melta for heavy? Also were you farming a specific mission to get all this maxed so fast, if so what mission?
Tactical with melta also gets free mags on major kills effectively making ammo management completely unnecessary. I've had melta spam games where I just do 70% of all the work. Also made the rest of the game unplayable for me because trying to level anything else feels like trash.
How do you get the relic perk tree for the weapons? I’m level 25 and full experience and I can’t get the relic skill tree that requires the mastery coins
i like bulwark a lot but heavy is undoubtedly better, bulwark parry is also for some reason like, not the default when pressing the input, it does a block first in combat, outside it does parries. double tapping the button will force a parry so that is the saving grace, if there were a way to swap that or separate them it'd be a non issue. wouldn't help the class in competing but in my opinion it doesn't need to, where he is now is fine to me.
thats the only good part of bulwark tbh. the full heal and armor on banner is really strong. if it just did like double or triple the damage it currently did it be on part with the s tier classes
Assault can regen an armor point with gun strikes with one of their perks, not sure for bulwark or vanguard though. Seems like the other melee classes definitely need more in that same vein (bulwark banner aside), or regenerating a percentage of armor on combo completions, guard breaks, heavy attacks, perfect parries, or a certain amount of hits/kills without staggering or in a time window. But like you said, why would you want to get in melee range when the melta and las fusil do way more damage from a safer distance? With unlimited ammo perks to boot? Either base damage for ranged weapons gets nerfed, or melee weapon base damage gets buffed, or melee combat provides better survivability. I just hope they dont go the Arrowhead route and nerf everything good into obscurity.
@@laurynas8569wrong, tact, vanguard, sniper. Tactical gets constant uptime and your still running three melta (basically). Also vanguard can actually party and do melee damage so against certain bosses it’ll be more useful.
@@draketurtle4169 what’s the point of melee when heavy can spam his ult to get his teammate’s ult to recharge faster and also has a better melts gun. If you say that’s wrong I’m gonna call you retarded
@@draketurtle4169 ok here is what I want you to do rewatch or watch the video you commented under about 5 times and after that tell me what you learnt cause there is no way you say that after watching the vid. Vanguard has the most middestperk tree in the game and its only saving grace is the melta gun. Meeting a boss? Bro just melta it who the fuck is gonna charge a helmets or a carn to melee it and you say heavy is less affective when he has a better melta gun, a perk tree that supports his team and gives them multiple decreases in ult cooldown. But oh yeah melee bosses on lvl 4 bro totally. Jesus Christ man 🤦
@@laurynas8569 Jesse what the fuck are you saying? You still need to get the boss into the 2nd phase which requires it to be attacking you because you are not getting it into it’s 2nd phase instantly, also the physic boss that flies around in the air can’t be shot with a melta because it’s too far away and even once your close a melee will actually be more effective against it. (Not my fault you don’t understand the game) Heavy can’t party nearly as well, dodges worse and can’t increase melee damage. Having the better melta doesn’t matter when it can’t be used effectively. The cool-down is more situational and only speeds it up, just do a finisher and get a % of your cool-down back. That’s useful very useful. Heavy makes you take less ranged damage by this argument that doesn’t matter because apparently with all powerful multi melta it’s just dead anyway (it’s not and the vanguard can get into effective range better) “It’s the Middest perk tree” You can literally just press parry and you will never get hurt anymore “but the melta-“ fuck off there are other guns to lvl up, you get the assaults passive twice as effective but need to be less than 50% hp… well if your less than 50% hp you actually need to worry about dodging shit and you do it better than another class with that being it’s gimmick. If something not infront of you is away to hit you as a heavy your getting hit, as the vanguard you just parry it or dodge it. (You can’t do that heavy stancing and then if your not the multi-melta isn’t any significantlu better). Without the melta gun the heavy is worse than everything but the assault, without the melta gun the vanguard is still better than the bulwark and better than the assault.
I was about to disagree with you about melee being weak but then I remembered heretics were an enemy type and honestly wreck melee unless you play perfectly which is extremely hard when there's 50 ranged enemies shooting you in the back so you're trying your best to get armor or health but can't cause it's taking so long to kill one enemy. Against tyranids though it's not too bad tbh even on the higher difficulties.
Max out sniper and I'm lovingggggggg it. Doing assault next. I hope they don't nerf considering there will be a higher difficulty coming. Just buff the others ffs.
I think that the issue with the classes arent really that they all suck i think its that the melee weapons need more damage and bulwark should have access to the heavy bolt pistol like assault does
@TannerLindberg I love the idea of armor regen on melee hit. That's more flavorful and give melee focused classes more staying power to atleast be able to trade. I would like to see a small/medium bump in damage as well across most weapons (melta not included lol)
I feel like they need an armor pen & damage stat. I think it would help balance some of the weapons. I think lore wise it would work well too. Most weapons should have pretty basic, average, pen. Bolt rifles have more pen and same dmg as the carbines and auto variant. Then the plasma should have low pen decent dmg on no charge and hi dmg high pen on charge. Melta should have super high pen but lower damage, and simpers should have huge pen, and big dmg. Idk if it would translate to melee but i think it would help give more guns more reason to use in certain cases. It would help specialize the ranged weapons as a lot of them feel useless too.
TL;DR: Remove Melta. I do think you underrate Bulwark a bit, I'd still put it above Vanguard, especially once they fix the contested HP bug that's making things like the Melta/Las Fusil regen more than their contested HP should allow. I don't even really enjoy Bulwark (I have Bulwark, Sniper, Tactical and Vanguard maxed, Bulwark out of necessity because of a group I play with) but they're just about the only class that can legitimately be the reason a run is saved with proper usage of it's special. While I do agree that currently it's not necessary that's ONLY because of Auspex Scan trivializing any boss you run into, making the 'saving a run' just well.. Not a thing because you shouldn't struggle with a Tactical/Heavy around, with one providing Extremis/Terminis damage and the other providing mob clear/sustain. Vanguard is just Assault but better because Melta is very balanced. Hurrdurr grapple in kill everything because Melta damage meanwhile Assault cries in a corner because all melee damage is kinda uhhh.. Not it right now for some reason. Also grapple execution shenanigans I guess and better team perks than Assault. Lastly Assault's has tons of problems, to list just a few: Nothing in it's skill tree synergizes in a way that allows for any meaningful customization/optimization, there's tons of dead perks and their inability to use a primary impacts them much more than Bulwark because they can't just sit there and effectively hold a line like Bulwark can. It's fine for Bulwark to struggle with damage, they can lock down entire areas with block/shield bash, banners and shock grenades, but Assault needs to zip around and kill things quickly and it just isn't capable of doing that because of the current lackluster melee damage in the game, the significant recharge time on jump pack (compared to Grapnel, Cloak, and Halo anyways) and the very real possibility of ground slams being interrupted, which shouldn't be a thing full stop, no perk required, you just shouldn't be able to be interrupted in ground slam charge. Assault does need a facelift, but Melta needs to get put in the ground and the numbers on Auspex Scan buffs need to be cut down to I shit you not 15%/25% damage increases respectively. This isn't a self buff, this is 175% damage that 3 separate sources can take advantage of, this makes it MORE than 175% and just a 40% increase would be massive. I think Sniper's first shot out of cloak should also be lowered to 50%, the melee can stay where it is to encourage people to try melee/bolt carbine builds once fusil is brought in line.
11:30 “you can charge [the las Fusil] to do even more damage” Wait… you have to full charge it to fire at all. Unless it works different from campaign or you are referring to all the stealth buffs essentialy overcharging it into the 25? Or maybe there is a second charge up I am missing. Anyway, great list and Definitely goin heavy
ua-cam.com/video/h8c8krWtYH4/v-deo.htmlsi=eAg5V7-HWCsmmEqV my worlds first no hit dmg run :D
Please stop yelling at me
😅😅😅
Just turn the volume down. You know there's a volume slider on youtuber right
@@reiser_175maybe because he deals with atleast 10 of you people in his videos
do we all need to be on xanax and mellow like you are?
Chill lil bro I think it's a joke lol@@TannerLindberg
I feel like you melta'd my ear drums
It's like the devs haven't played their own game. It's not like the lowest difficulty is easy as a fresh assault. You still die very easily when there's a group of 5 majoris. With skill you can dance around and take them out, but a melta or lasfusil do that in a fraction without even being in any danger.
I really hope they take feedback like this into consideration when balancing the classes. Shame to see such a gap between them. Let's hope they don't straight up nerf the good ones to be equal to the bad ones. Thank you for putting this together.
nope. they become HD2. and its an ez ded game.
Especially melee, it’s super fun and I love it but like he said it’s pretty weak sometimes, ESPECIALLY when it comes to single target
don't care I'm going to instantly feed on every diff 4 mission with the thunderhammer
play solo with Ai. so its gonna be a full 3 Bot team❤
Lmaaaoooo
Love making melee a major focus of the game, only to have it do too little dps when compared to a super heated shotgun that invalidates it
You are in for a rude awakening lol
Maxed out tactical with melta. proceed to join with randoms and have been accused of hacking as this weapon deletes entire waves of mobs with 2-3 shots. 😅
The melta is hell of strong in the lore they should buff the bolters they dont stagger enough
Even better if you manage to kill a boss before they can even make a move. You can literally kill a carnifex before he gets to finish his spawn animation lol
This guy had the best input about classes on darktide so I already know he knows his shit on this game. And I knew he was coming for my assault :(
It’s the sad truth but damn do I love the hammer so I’m going to keep swinging until it’s better
yeah its not hard enough of a game to justify not playing it.
@@TannerLindberg exactly. I’ve just taken it as an extra challenge to play better and it’s still been fun.
@@TannerLindberg I’ll also add that I’ve noticed the hammer is basically a full tier behind in damage. Tier 3 only feels good on difficulty 2. Majoris and up eat your pool noodle strikes on 3 and don’t even get me started on difficulty 4. They just need to shift the tiers down and make an even stronger tier 4.
Who cares man just play what you find fun, if people complain then they should play an actual competitive game or play with their own friends.
I like to play vanguard cause the grapple is fun and I like their customization the best not because of the melta or other reasons
Don't worry. Hammer and melee will definitely buff. Just enjoy what you like now. The game will add higher difficulty later. When you need like 5-6shots melta to kill a warrior types enemies or 2-3 shots to kill the small ones while you have only 20s ammo, you will find that melta is not such OP.
This is why you are the best youtuber, no bullshit, no editing, no clickbait, right down to the facts
Not only did I walk away with the most knowledge I’ve got from a SM2 video. But now I also know what it feels like to be reprimanded by your father.
Thanks dad ❤️
Great video as usual appreciate the tips
what an insanely good insight into the classes!
These are the kinds of videos I like. No bs, To the point, and really hyperbolic. I just wanna know what’s useful and what’s useless.
By far the best video on the classes on UA-cam. Great guide man. Do more with less yelling next time 😂
I was waiting for this vid, thx tanner
Empra's most devoted servant...
What is the next objective for you?
Probably pvp. I had a few 20 and o games I should upload
@@TannerLindbergI dig the PvP so I can't wait for the upload,. With a bit of balancing I think I will see myself going PvP more often than operations lol.
Also Im curious, what is your opinion on melee combat in sm2?
Love your content :)
@@TannerLindberg Do it please 🙂
@@TannerLindberg sniper cloak with smg is beyond busted in pvp. nothing else compares
If the UA-camr doesn’t sound a bit like sponge bob then i don’t trust his new game knowledge
@@gavinfairbanksi get the feeling you dont like the man
Haha!
Appreciate your vid, have also checked out your darktide stuff some months back too which really helped my Vet game play. Thanks for the breakdown so early into the release, consider me sold on the melta weps.
first time stumbling on your page. love the cadence and commentary . keep up the good work sir!
They are going to nerf the melta 100%
i hope, melta is the only weapon broken is this game and actually 3 guys with melta piss off lvl4 mission
Likely... when in reality they should lift up everyone else to the level of melta.
@@drallcom3 agreed, they shouldnt nerf melta's at all because Meltas genuinely do stuff like this in the lore, they let infantry hunt tanks.
@drallcom3 nah the melta could do with a very small nerf and buff much weaker weapons this is coming from a vanguard melta main
Those be fighten words
hope the devs see this, cuz yeah spot on.
Followed your guide for darktide. Now im here. I lucked out and started with heavy and sniper. Consistently doing min 15k ranged dmg with melta. Havent touched melee classes yet.
Man, imagine having a 200% brittleness AOE on demand.
Do you think the damage values of melee are working as intended? I have all the relic thunder hammers and chains swords and notice that if I use a 4 damage white name hammer then compare it to a relic one it takes the same amount of swings to kill even with the damage perks. It’s like the damage values aren’t real.
Thank you, tired of people acting like assault is anywhere near even decent. Leveling it first was the worst mistake i made lmao
its the most fun class in the game and the most flashy so it causes alot of people to MEGA cope on it
Me and buddies have been farming hundreds of hive tyrants for sports and at this point we all agree that the only way to play assault is to treat yourself as a reusable grenade, basically just do a jump slam on anything you want to spend a grenade on.
Which brings another issue, you're burning ability charges to do what other classes can easily achieve with just weapons, and that pretty much paints the whole picture for it.
To be honest, with assault you can basically one shot the elites if you use the perk where they take 10% increased damage from all sources after being hit by your melee and combining that with the gunstrike 50% increase.
Obviously the main issue with this though is that you’re waiting for a parry or perfect dodge to land your gunstrike while a tactical can just come over and obliterate that enemy while you’re waiting lol
Also you actually have to try, use a finesse knife and the easier parry skill on vanguard… you can’t get hurt in melee and even then melta heal.
Oh and if for some reason your less than 50% hp your perfect didge is doubled (assault gets 50%) so by being 50% hp or less which isn’t a problem for you then you get to be an assault while doing everything better.
The only think assault does well is gun strikes to get armour which is a low bar.
why does this feel like a football coach yelling at the team at halftime while down 30
just an idea for a video maybe you could do something like your thoughts or ideas to make the pve mode better or class buff ideas i dunno. love the video tho keep it up
Great video , I was having issues starting out , highest now is level 15, started as bulwark, noticed my melts was so helpful I could do the next difficulty and even have stims left over , melta besides healing just deletes waves, and waves are what ruin your run , you skill bosses and tough mobs , but when you get those 30+ waves, and run out of roll room . For people starting out, strongly suggest melta weapon on any class that can use it , huge difference. I really hope they don’t nerf melta, and buff mele some
Love the energy 😂 thanks for accurately repping us Assault mains. Hope they BUFF and don’t NERF 😭 RIP Helldivers
HP is "broken" on all of the weapons, not just Melta. If you'll hit multiple enemies with one shot, you'll get healed a bunch, even if it'll be a few headshots with a bolter round. Melta is just the easiest weapon to abuse that bug, cuz it deals 53252352 damage per shot. The way it works is, you get healed for ALL the damage that comes from your single shot, no matter how much temp health you have.
Assault is a Gun Strike machine (Gun Strike aura), you can easily solo clear anything just by perfect dodging and gun striking everyone. Still, shit class.
Is melee bad? Absolutely, you weapon is just a parry stat-stick. But with the fencing T4 power sword and a bottom perk row (50% Rake damage) you can parry anyone, clear hordes, and 3-4 shot elites. You should try it, it's actually pretty good, at least for solo pushing it is.
Also, a power fist with the bottom row would be OP, only if perks and damage increases fucking WORKED. You can spam your cannon-punch and it could be a melee melta, but none of the damage works on it, for some fucking reason.
assault if great if you play perfectly. other classes achieve that just by spamming their weapon.
Absolutely Fantasic Advice! Any advice on how to level weapons and classes faster?
Speed run the 6th mission is brain dead easy and gives the most exp
@@TannerLindberg brilliant man, thx.
you dont even have to reach max level to see this, you equip the melta or lasrifle once to see how much it stomps every other ranged wep and you know this video is just 100% facts
Man is yelling straight facts 💯
Heya Tanner, good video and good insights! Helps me decide what to level next with my limited time, thanks! 😉
Btw, not sure if you tried it yet but don't sleep on the Tactical's Bolt Rifle. Did a solo run with it and it's pretty nuts.
Listening to this sounds like im getting a lecture for doing bad things when i was a child.
Easiest sub of the week.
It's wild that melee as a space marine in the game called SPACE MARINE is somehow worse than melee as a normal human in Vermintide or Darktide
WHYRE YOU YELLING
Not yelling, just energetic and autistic. Get used to it and the content has a habit of being pretty solid
@@Thereisnogreatersword what
Honestly all they need to do is fix melee by buffing damage or give the assault a lifesteal type situation when in melee. Then all classes would be perfectly balanced and fun
The skill that makes your full hp bar white is actually the ress skill not the one for contested hp. Im like 90% sure its a bug
I just got my second character max being bull after I did heavy first where I unlocked all the cosmetics and I thought I was a grinder. This guy doesn’t sleep.
So much passion my guy 😂
How did you level up? Just playing fun missions or did you spam one in particular?
Yo dude you should do a build video for the classes.
What I got from this is: bring the melta rifle down just a hair, it can be really powerful, but there should be more tradeoff for using it. And also buff melee damage in general.
Do you work for Arrowhead? Nerfs are never the answer, especially in PVE. Melta is fine where it is, buff the melee. That’s it
@joeschmoe5608 haha good one. Fair point.
bring everything else up to the level of meltas. no point in nerfing meltas if that is the only fun thing in the game.
Either that, or just make the enemies in Max Difficultly not so Bullet/ Damage Spongy. Make their health stay the same as the Substantial Difficulty, keep their current Max Diff damage and increase their number of combatants per wave to offset the decreased health. And, give the Melta and Multi-Melta an overheat mechanic. Like the other heavy weapons have. Like for example, make it so the Meltas can shoot up to three shots in quick succession, but that third will cause an overheat. Anything on the business end of the Meltas are usually dead anyway after two or three shots, even in current high difficulty. And because unless I am wrong, the Meltas don’t have one and the fact they are the highest damage dealing weapons with no overheat, just makes them the defacto best weapon for classes capable of using them, which we are seeing as of right now.
These changes will all simultaneously make Melee classes more viable, more weapons able to compete over player choice, and create a theme for the heavy weapons in that they all are high risk, high reward weapons that deal big damage, but can’t be used with reckless abandon, spamming to no end.
This is actually very helpful for me. At first I went all in on tactical (Level 10) before starting to look at other classes. I kinda hated Assault, I too realized that using the plasma gun was better for Bulwark (Lv 4), and then played as sniper (Lv. 5) and as soon as I tried La Fusil I had a new favorite weapon. I'll definitely keep using Sniper and Tactical from here on.
Vanguard is my jam rocking the Melta and combat knife for parry windows.
I can toutch the passion you confirm what i was thinking!
Would you nerf things or buff the classes and weapons that aren’t as powerful? Do you see the broken aspects of the tactical, heavy, and sniper as something to fix?
The only question is if the devs will pull a Helldivers and nerf strong weapons instead of buff weak weapons. Guess I'm going to level my melta classes while I can
Thanks for the insight.
Think you’ll do a video on how you think they should buff the bad classes?
ah god - lets just hope Saber buffs the melee. And not take notes from helldivers and just nerf range weapons
It sucks that melee is so underwhelming in this game. Like thematically I love melee classes like the assault class but mechanically they suck. They need to buff melee very badly.
I agree, if your going to have the Melta doing so well lore accuracy is appreciated thou, melee should be buffed the risk reward mechanic makes it inefficient to play anything without a melta in higher difficulties, you can still play whatever but you know we love the game enough to want to make it better
it's like they made melee for 1vs1 fights, but then spawn 5+10 monsters.
HE YELLS WITH THE FURY OF THE EMPERORS WILL!
bro did not sleep
what perks do you run on the regular melta for tactical and the multi-melta for heavy? Also were you farming a specific mission to get all this maxed so fast, if so what mission?
he made a vid on it, he did mission #3. I'm pretty sure mission #6 is also around as fast but it's more nids and less chaos.
@@n1ght7ngale Thank you, I didn't even think of checking his other videos.
Guy is the Gordon Ramsay of Warhammer.
Essentially this video is like “hi plasma gun vet we missed you”
*meanwhile every chinese hacker who became lvl 25 and got all gear in 3 hours*
Ah yes because cheating counts as doing something
Tactical with melta also gets free mags on major kills effectively making ammo management completely unnecessary. I've had melta spam games where I just do 70% of all the work. Also made the rest of the game unplayable for me because trying to level anything else feels like trash.
Could you make build videos on the weapon perk trees?
If it’s not increasing dmg it’s bad (or giving you more ammo max capacity)
How do you get the relic perk tree for the weapons? I’m level 25 and full experience and I can’t get the relic skill tree that requires the mastery coins
You just spend the gold mat and unlock it after you get enough experience with the purple tier
That’s for the perk tree? Could you possibly make a video, not many people know about it
I can just imagine what you look like based off your voice bro god damn
no you cant
i like bulwark a lot but heavy is undoubtedly better,
bulwark parry is also for some reason like, not the default when pressing the input, it does a block first in combat, outside it does parries.
double tapping the button will force a parry so that is the saving grace, if there were a way to swap that or separate them it'd be a non issue.
wouldn't help the class in competing but in my opinion it doesn't need to, where he is now is fine to me.
The bulwark can full heal itself and others with banner and execute
thats the only good part of bulwark tbh. the full heal and armor on banner is really strong. if it just did like double or triple the damage it currently did it be on part with the s tier classes
Ohhhh that's why I can't parry anything. I thought I just sucked
Yeah I just maxed Tactical and on Ruthless marked bosses are basically made of tissue paper; the Scan ability just trivializes all the bosses
Muted?
Sadly i agree to your points , sadly bcs i want to play attack and bullwark as main 😂
then do it it still works
@@TannerLindberg i men yeh bullwark feel okay but attack feels rly weak at dif 3 and 4
Also melta has a CC component to it so it’s so powerful
This is the infor I need. the one from an expert. Thanks!
Dude has WoW pvo energy.
What are somethings you think could balance every class?
MELTA
HEY GUYS
MELTA, GUYS
MELTA MARINE 2
IT’S THE NAME OF THE MELT- I mean, IT’S THE NAME OF THE GAME GUYS
How tf did they not see the problems with assault before release
Bro wasted his life away for our info. Thank you sir
Assault can regen an armor point with gun strikes with one of their perks, not sure for bulwark or vanguard though. Seems like the other melee classes definitely need more in that same vein (bulwark banner aside), or regenerating a percentage of armor on combo completions, guard breaks, heavy attacks, perfect parries, or a certain amount of hits/kills without staggering or in a time window.
But like you said, why would you want to get in melee range when the melta and las fusil do way more damage from a safer distance? With unlimited ammo perks to boot? Either base damage for ranged weapons gets nerfed, or melee weapon base damage gets buffed, or melee combat provides better survivability. I just hope they dont go the Arrowhead route and nerf everything good into obscurity.
That perk is seriously the best part of assault and makes him WAY more fun to play.
Hamer needs a multiplyer and 30% speed buff
Carried by Mach
Tanner was the real sidekick all along
yea the melta is the best. but are you playing the game to win or to have fun?
What do you think the meta is going to shape up to be tanner? Tactical and Bulark?
Tac heavy sniper easily
Tactical also has granede launcher which is busted as hell.
So with this knowledge, what is your dreamteam setup?
Tact,heavy,sniper. Killing everything as quickly as possible is the most important thing in any pve game
@@laurynas8569wrong, tact, vanguard, sniper.
Tactical gets constant uptime and your still running three melta (basically).
Also vanguard can actually party and do melee damage so against certain bosses it’ll be more useful.
@@draketurtle4169 what’s the point of melee when heavy can spam his ult to get his teammate’s ult to recharge faster and also has a better melts gun. If you say that’s wrong I’m gonna call you retarded
@@draketurtle4169 ok here is what I want you to do rewatch or watch the video you commented under about 5 times and after that tell me what you learnt cause there is no way you say that after watching the vid.
Vanguard has the most middestperk tree in the game and its only saving grace is the melta gun. Meeting a boss? Bro just melta it who the fuck is gonna charge a helmets or a carn to melee it and you say heavy is less affective when he has a better melta gun, a perk tree that supports his team and gives them multiple decreases in ult cooldown. But oh yeah melee bosses on lvl 4 bro totally. Jesus Christ man 🤦
@@laurynas8569 Jesse what the fuck are you saying?
You still need to get the boss into the 2nd phase which requires it to be attacking you because you are not getting it into it’s 2nd phase instantly, also the physic boss that flies around in the air can’t be shot with a melta because it’s too far away and even once your close a melee will actually be more effective against it. (Not my fault you don’t understand the game)
Heavy can’t party nearly as well, dodges worse and can’t increase melee damage. Having the better melta doesn’t matter when it can’t be used effectively.
The cool-down is more situational and only speeds it up, just do a finisher and get a % of your cool-down back. That’s useful very useful.
Heavy makes you take less ranged damage by this argument that doesn’t matter because apparently with all powerful multi melta it’s just dead anyway (it’s not and the vanguard can get into effective range better)
“It’s the Middest perk tree”
You can literally just press parry and you will never get hurt anymore “but the melta-“ fuck off there are other guns to lvl up, you get the assaults passive twice as effective but need to be less than 50% hp… well if your less than 50% hp you actually need to worry about dodging shit and you do it better than another class with that being it’s gimmick.
If something not infront of you is away to hit you as a heavy your getting hit, as the vanguard you just parry it or dodge it. (You can’t do that heavy stancing and then if your not the multi-melta isn’t any significantlu better).
Without the melta gun the heavy is worse than everything but the assault, without the melta gun the vanguard is still better than the bulwark and better than the assault.
What skill tree path do you build on Melta?
Any chance of a PVP tier list? or is it the same there?
I agree, but I would suggest to play what you enjoy because melee will most likely be buffed.
I was about to disagree with you about melee being weak but then I remembered heretics were an enemy type and honestly wreck melee unless you play perfectly which is extremely hard when there's 50 ranged enemies shooting you in the back so you're trying your best to get armor or health but can't cause it's taking so long to kill one enemy. Against tyranids though it's not too bad tbh even on the higher difficulties.
Thank you! Someone gets it! Damage is how you complete the level, and how you make sure nothing is alive to hurt you!
This has been common knowledge for a decade to literally anyone who is even just 1 step above casual level when it comes to pve games.
Max out sniper and I'm lovingggggggg it. Doing assault next. I hope they don't nerf considering there will be a higher difficulty coming. Just buff the others ffs.
I think that the issue with the classes arent really that they all suck i think its that the melee weapons need more damage and bulwark should have access to the heavy bolt pistol like assault does
So really, all the melee classes just need a substantial buff.
It's more so armor needs a buff. Or they need a passive that let's them regen armor on melee hit.
@TannerLindberg I love the idea of armor regen on melee hit. That's more flavorful and give melee focused classes more staying power to atleast be able to trade. I would like to see a small/medium bump in damage as well across most weapons (melta not included lol)
Yo, I can't wait for you to start analyzing other peoples gameplay. And absolutely tear into them
Hate channels are hot garbage. Get a life
I thought in 40k melee sucked but was inevitable due to constantly fighting hordes from xenos to humans it's all hordes
Does the Auspex by default apply a damage increase?
I feel like they need an armor pen & damage stat. I think it would help balance some of the weapons. I think lore wise it would work well too. Most weapons should have pretty basic, average, pen. Bolt rifles have more pen and same dmg as the carbines and auto variant. Then the plasma should have low pen decent dmg on no charge and hi dmg high pen on charge. Melta should have super high pen but lower damage, and simpers should have huge pen, and big dmg. Idk if it would translate to melee but i think it would help give more guns more reason to use in certain cases. It would help specialize the ranged weapons as a lot of them feel useless too.
Good stuff
TL;DR: Remove Melta.
I do think you underrate Bulwark a bit, I'd still put it above Vanguard, especially once they fix the contested HP bug that's making things like the Melta/Las Fusil regen more than their contested HP should allow. I don't even really enjoy Bulwark (I have Bulwark, Sniper, Tactical and Vanguard maxed, Bulwark out of necessity because of a group I play with) but they're just about the only class that can legitimately be the reason a run is saved with proper usage of it's special. While I do agree that currently it's not necessary that's ONLY because of Auspex Scan trivializing any boss you run into, making the 'saving a run' just well.. Not a thing because you shouldn't struggle with a Tactical/Heavy around, with one providing Extremis/Terminis damage and the other providing mob clear/sustain.
Vanguard is just Assault but better because Melta is very balanced. Hurrdurr grapple in kill everything because Melta damage meanwhile Assault cries in a corner because all melee damage is kinda uhhh.. Not it right now for some reason. Also grapple execution shenanigans I guess and better team perks than Assault.
Lastly Assault's has tons of problems, to list just a few: Nothing in it's skill tree synergizes in a way that allows for any meaningful customization/optimization, there's tons of dead perks and their inability to use a primary impacts them much more than Bulwark because they can't just sit there and effectively hold a line like Bulwark can.
It's fine for Bulwark to struggle with damage, they can lock down entire areas with block/shield bash, banners and shock grenades, but Assault needs to zip around and kill things quickly and it just isn't capable of doing that because of the current lackluster melee damage in the game, the significant recharge time on jump pack (compared to Grapnel, Cloak, and Halo anyways) and the very real possibility of ground slams being interrupted, which shouldn't be a thing full stop, no perk required, you just shouldn't be able to be interrupted in ground slam charge.
Assault does need a facelift, but Melta needs to get put in the ground and the numbers on Auspex Scan buffs need to be cut down to I shit you not 15%/25% damage increases respectively. This isn't a self buff, this is 175% damage that 3 separate sources can take advantage of, this makes it MORE than 175% and just a 40% increase would be massive.
I think Sniper's first shot out of cloak should also be lowered to 50%, the melee can stay where it is to encourage people to try melee/bolt carbine builds once fusil is brought in line.
Brother calm down theres no reason to yell at me like we are actively arguing cuz we literally can only listen to u
11:30 “you can charge [the las Fusil] to do even more damage”
Wait… you have to full charge it to fire at all. Unless it works different from campaign or you are referring to all the stealth buffs essentialy overcharging it into the 25? Or maybe there is a second charge up I am missing.
Anyway, great list and Definitely goin heavy
yeah, lasfusil doesn't do 25 damage or so. it does 14-15 and "charging" is just doing a normal shot, as there isn't an uncharged shot.