Why I’m done stuffing my tent
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- Опубліковано 21 лис 2022
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In this video I show you how to pitch a tent on a nice flat spot without tangles guy lines or flapping fly sheet. I'd love to see your best way to pitch a tent so please tag me in your videos so I can see how it's done.
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Wild Country Helm Compact 1
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If you've enjoyed any of my videos, I'd be over the moon if you could please vote for me in The TGO Reader's Awards. Here's the link www.smartsurvey.co.uk/s/TGvote22/
I owe you one 🍺🍺. Thank you. Paul & Jo
My pleasure Paul. Best wishes to Jo 😊
All done Paul. Wow, not an easy choice. So many good people and places on the survey!
My vote's in. Good luck!
deservingly done :)
I'm after one of your Atom Packs "fanny packs". I'm actually wondering what's in it.
I was always taught to fold and roll my tents it works every time for me.but if your just on a overnighter then you can just push it in a bag because your going to air the tent at home then rol it properly for next time.also tie a piece of old guy line preferably different colour to the head end then you instantly know which is which.also always have your poles set up before unrolling your tent then it's quick to put the poles in and the tent as some shape and strength against the wind.
Great tip about using a different colour guy. 👍 Sometimes it’s the simple things that work so well.
Agreed, why would anyone stuff!
I shove the tent back in the bag😃 BUT, I always keep the rear end, with the peg loops so it's the first thing I see, when I open the bag. Peg those, while the tent is still in the bag. Then just back away holding the bag, the tent unfolding. I like your way as well, but I'm taught not to fold the tent...habit sticks. Nice video👍
I've never stuffed my tents ever Paul, always just roll them. Had a Terra Nova Laser for 15 years now and absolutely no problems rolling it up:)
Last time I pitched it down was during heavy winds in the alps, in full bike-gear and while a lot of swearing 😂
Your video gave me a good input, thanks.
I've always done this with my tents. Basically, it is worth spending a bit of time packing to help get your tent up quickly tonight. As I'm multi day bike touring it helps.
Always been team "fold and roll" when it comes to tents. I'm a big fan of putting a bit of extra work in at home to save time when getting there though. Haven't ever thought about doing something like this, I just unroll it, then it gets blown around, I struggle to find the front, find it, get it blown around, struggle to find the front again, peg down a corner, peg the other corners, realise I've pegged it backwards, unpeg it, lose the front, struggle to find the front again, finally get it pegged down and oriented the way I want. Then be thankful I did this test pitch in my back garden and get it all packed up ready for the night out. 🤣
Would be great to see a video on knots- you seem to have a few. Lots of close ups and very slow step by step guide to different knots that you use and explanations for why you use them in that scenario
Yes, that would be great 👍
Agree
Genius. Its amazing how even after years of experiences , we still adapt to needs. Great work.
seems you can teach an old dog new tricks...or the old dog can learn from experience and change... for the better. Well done and it shows a true professional at work. Many would not do this; they might change how they store and pitch but would they tell everyone they 'were wrong'? Not wrong, of course but not aware of the better way. I cut my camping teeth in the army so always do stuff in a way that if it was 'worst case scenario' I can get the job done.You learned that on a windy hillside, thought about it, came up with a solution and then applied that thinking. You'll do fine, young Paul. Love your vids.
I've always fold and roll the tent. I've never considered folding so the end tiedowns are accessible even before fulling unrolling the tent. Great idea, Thanks.
Nice video Paul, many thanks. Since you ask, I'm not a great fan of compressing tents way down, so I always fold and roll between pitches if time and weather permit - stuffing is for getting gone quick. I fold into thirds of a width usually, and depending on the tent I'll often roll round the poles (in their bag). I leave a length of windward side guyline outside the roll and clip that to the backpack in windy conditions before I unroll the tent, then like you, unfold up the windward end and peg down those corners first. The poles always get put on top of the tent fly until they get used, so I'm less likely to walk on them. I carry a peg bag in my thigh pocket and pegs come out of that and go straight back into that as I use them, so they're not left on the ground for me to lose.
On my last camping trip my son (34) would just remove the tent poles and roll / fold everything up and put the whole lot in an adventure duffel bag. When I say everything, that included his sleeping bag, air mattress, tent light, power bank, USB cables, radio etc. all still inside the tent. It really simplified setup and break down.
Rolling is definitely the way to go! I’ve always found it consistently much easier to both setup and pack away. Especially in conditions that are not ideal!
To be honest Paul I’ve always folded and rolled up the tent after use the way it came when new. Found it easier (as long as it’s dry and doesn’t need drying out at home).
Yup. I have never heard of this stuffing it in to prevent weak spots. Sure, stuff it when wet but once dried, fold and roll. 👍
Same mate. +1
Doesn't everyone roll their tent away anyway?
This is the kind of demonstrations that we all need, excellent
Yep - that’s how I was shown many years ago. I like the way you wind up your guy lines. I shall have a go at that.
You can actually have the best of both worlds Paul.
I always roll my tents up and then stick them in a dry sack as well, and then push all the air out and manipulate the shape to fit my rucksack.
Because you’ve rolled it up to start with it’ll still keep its rolled up shape in the sack even with all the air squashed out of it.
Give it a try👍🏻
Love it. It’s not just the rolling (yeah, yeah, we’ve been rolling our tents for years), it’s the extra little tips you have added. You are a gem ❤
Oh my god. This is absolutely legendary. Thank you for this!!!!
Thanks Paul! This is brilliant. I can’t wait to try it out on the Durston XMid2! Glad you mentioned it.
Brilliant. Always been the best way!
Great work Paul, I also prefer to roll my tents. It sure is much more convenient also to secure the guy lines like you have done in this video.
It helps and saves time when next you pitch your tent.
Thanks for the effort.
I have a Redverz Atamaca tent, massive thing, but I love it for motorbike camping. It doesn’t pack down small. However in strong winds I have found a couple similar tricks. My ground sheet clips to the tent body at pole ends. In extreme wind, 80kph when I figured this out, I peg the ground sheet down first. Tail end upwind. I tree fold lengthwise and roll tent up starting at ‘garage’ end which leaves the tail end exposed at outside of roll. Standing butt into the wind I clip the rear most tent clips to the staked ground sheet. The wind will unroll the tent away from towards front. I clip the front connectors as well, I do not clip the pole sleeve end points yet. I first sleeve the rearmost pole and then clip it all up to that point, I then tie guy lines and stand the rearmost hoop.Then I sleeve next pole and clip again, standing it up as well. And so on until all pegs, poles and clips are fastened. Being able to stake out the flat sheet is the key. Basically do the reverse after removing all poles from sleeves in the morning, folding and rolling it back up from front to back so it’s ready for next day. I have to add, having watched some of your windy overnights, even with my bike earplugs, my buff over my eyes, it wasn’t a restful sleep! Adversity always makes for the best stories! Oh, I also pull the back end pegs with their loops and push them back in at back in middle. That sort of holds the far end in alignment with bottom as I fold and roll from other end. It’s like having a second person up there.
Nice bit of 'hanking' to keep your guylines tidy and ready to deploy. I do this with all my cordage; an old bushcraft trick.
I also clip/karabiner the peg bag to my belt. As soon as I pull up a peg, it's popped straight into the bag. I've never lost or had to hunt for any pegs this way.
Well done! Nothing like experience combined with trial and error.
Personally this is one of the best videos you’ve made. Other than my Telemark and Scarp 1 I’ve always stuffed my tents in a dry bag. I’ve also got a Xmid 1 (which Dan does actually recommend folding and rolling) so will be looking to do this moving forward - it just makes sense. Although if it is raining and windy, I’d still stuff my tent in a sack, as I always air them when I get home. Thanks for the video. Keep on, keep in’ on. ❤
This is super cool, thanks Paul! Gonna give this a go!
You’ve changed my mind on tent stuffing too. Thanks Paul 👍🏼
Nice one Paul! Loved the quick release knots
It's a fantastic idea, love it
For me how I pack away the tent is dependent on a variety of things. If it is raining or there has been a lot condensation, then I will generally detach the inner and store it in a separate dry bag. This ensures a dry sleeping area but also vastly speeds up the drying process at home, as the silnylon doesn't readily absorb water, but the mesh sleeping area does and remains wet noticeably longer. Then I roll up the guy lines which are the major offenders. I leave one loose which is the anchoring point to my rucksack in high winds. This also dictates the direction of the tent. Then I pack the outer in its own dry bag, pegs and poles separately. This works well for Hilleberg tents but may well not for others. Rolling both inner and outer together will have a tidy advantage in the dry, but my biggest frustration has not been rolled vs stuffed, it has been loose guylines catching up each other, producing a tangled mess. Now I always use a minute extra to roll them up and pack the inner separate. Makes unpacking and maintaining the tent at home more pleasant. Rolling a damp inner and outer together could be unpleasant later
That's just reminded me, I need to reattach the my inner before Friday. And yes I'm definitely trying that out. Thanks Paul.
I’ve always folded and rolled tents, although I don’t have the collection you do mind! Just a a Scorpion 2, heavy and bulky, but OK otherwise for me. I think it makes an easier / better shape for packing in my rucksack .
I’m all for a fly first pitch, being in Blighty, while both together sounds nice and quick, but not when its wet.
Packing so you know which end the door / foot is at is a bonus when pitching in the wet and or wind (which it never happens here) for the reasons you quoted. It will usually give you a couple of pegging points automatically to stop it blowing away.
Dry pitch: Footprint, fly, inner, get things in
Wet pitch: Fly, everything under cover, footprint, inner, takes longer but keeps things dry.
Packing is basically the reverse, always try and try to keep the dry side of the fly dry. Always zip doors up, it makes the pitching easier.
Fly and inner in separate stuff sacks.
Most of my hikes are multi-day, so I usually have to sleep in it the following night, that why I keep as much dry as possible.
Anyway Paul, keep these making these clips please, always good and interesting to watch.
Simple but brilliant idea. I'm going to try it next time.
Great video. Really like the hints and tips videos, very good idea.
Good video. Thanks for sharing this.
I use the Fjallraven abisko lite 1, and always fold it and roll it into the stuff sack provided. Now when I get home, I take it out, let it dry out properly and tie neatly all the guy ropes; so when I'm out next I know exactly how to pitch first time. It is a small tent so clearly a lot easier than most! My mindset is, you look after your gear and your gear will look after you! Great video Paul, you always come up with subjects no-one seems to pick up on; oh until they see your video and copy it lol
If the tent is clean on top but dirty on the bottom, and it’s not windy, I’ve always tried to fold the dirt side on itself to keep the rest of the tent clean. This is fairly easy to do with two people. I think your folding strategy is the way to go if wind is common.
Thank you!!!! That's what I'm saying!!!
I never felt I liked the idea of folding it so messy that the top and bottom all get dirty together!!
I just don't like it!
So have always folded exactly as you said! The dirty side on itself! So when I open my tent next, I'm always going to have a clean, dry tent! 😊🏕
Top Tip, Top Tent, Top Tuber !!!! Brilliant as ever Paul.
Great tips for rolling up the tents with inner and outer attached. Both my Durstons are now rolled this way. So much less annoying than how I’d been doing it. Thanks for the great tip.
Another well thought out vid. Good content. And it’s great to see someone who isn’t afraid of a bit of rain (like some tubers). 👍🏻
Good idea! I'll give this a go myself.
Excellent video 😎
I never know which bit of the tent ⛺️ I’m looking at 🧐 definitely going to try this.
I’d have liked to have seen how you finished wrapping the guy lines 🤓 mine are always tangled 😂
I would also like to see in more detail how you finished off the bundle of guy line so it just pulls out like that.
@@bihlygoat ua-cam.com/video/we18XkDd264/v-deo.html
used colored paracord orange and green pre-tied to the front(green) and the back(orange). If it's going to be very windy will have stakes pre tied in at the green towards wind end. Get the orange end in the bag first and end with green. When pitching it comes back out at yah green to ground move to rear as it pulls out. Can get out on either end so the marrow front being towards the wind works for me. Thanks. Trial and error is the best teacher of kit setups.
Preparing for a wild camp I plan to fold my tent as you have in this video. Post camp I stuff it into a stuff sack.
To be honest I am lazy. so if dry the tent often remains in the stuff sack ... and I don't unpack/fold before my adventure. Only time I seem to fold it in preparation for my wild camp is if I have dried out the tent!
You have my vote, deserved after filming this tent rolling in the rain.
Really clever, Paul!😊
That is a well thought out procedure that will have you setting up in no time. Establishing the tailhold into the wind is key.
From a kid we always folded our tents over right side to middle, left side to middle then roll tight. It's something I've always done and with practice you can get it nice and tight.
hi Paul, I'm a roller not a stuffer. I ruined a pretty much brand new terra nova laser compact 2 tent buy stuffing exactly what you said guy lines tangled struggled to figure out what was going on and lost my temper a little bit it was pissing down I had really cold hands that were numb and ended up ripping it. I realised rolling up your tent is the way forward.Once out the bag you shake it like a bed sheet and it lays out lovely,so much easier. it's good to see you've recovered from the wobble you had and have continued to push forward,respect bro.take care my friend.
Well done mate. I nearly sprayed wine over the 'done two Ethels'😅. Thanks for a bit more inspiration.👍
Hi Paul, the old scouting method I use is to fold the tent floor into the centre cross ways then longitudinally, then roll it. I clean with a wetex as I go, getting all twigs, mud, bugs, condensation etc off the base to keep the tent clean - as top priority. For really high wind I put my back pack on the tent as I peg it out. Cheers Bruce.
I've got the Helm 2 Compact. Pitched it loads but I've learned some top tips here, thankyou. Atb. Mark
I will now put my tent in a dry bag thanks Paul for sharing info on how to put a wet tent in to a dry bag that was cracking video 👍
I've never stuffed my tents back into their bags, if it was a good idea the manufacturer would do it. Only advantage I can see is that you can crush it small to minimise the space it takes in your pack. Crushing it is probably just as likely to damage the groundsheet as folding and rolling it. Each to their own, I've always been really fussy about my tents, I clean the pegs and check the poles after each use.
I just got back from a trip in which I was rained out on day two. The first thing I did when I got home (and before a hot shower?)? Set up my tent on a tarp in the dining room with fans blowing on it. My gear was draped all over the house before I relaxed. But that is what makes it last and protects my investment. Also, I never use the stuff sack for my free-standing tent; it's easier to pack as separate components.
I’ve been doing that for years. Also have a Delta Ground peg or two at the beginning of the roll and a small carabiner, just in case it’s windy
I have always rolled mine Paul there is a great video by hilleberg of pitching in extreme winds a method I use. I always wipe my tent down with a spungi absorbent cloth. If on a multi day trip I separate my inner and put it in a dry bag while inside the still pitched outer, next roll away as you do but slide the tent into its bag then a bin bag before putting the dry bag. Once pitched you can give inside a quick wipe before replacing inner. Bit longer but dry comfy inner great for mopping up any condensation too
Great to see you catch up with what I was taught in the Scouts in the 1980's ;-) I didn't watch to the end of the video but if you always start at the windward end then when you put it away, leave these pegs in as you roll it back up it's always the right way around every time. Another top tip, in case something goes awry is to add a couple of small lengths of 1mm bright climbing cord to the pegging points at the windward end so you can easily identify these in the dusk / rain / strong winds. A must on the Soulo
As the Scout Movement says, 'Be Prepared". Very good reminder of what we should be aiming for Paul. Ta Chuck.
Folded & rolled when I started in the 1970's but quickly became a stuffer. Pitched & struck in too many winter hoolies to be bothered by folding & hanking. Even when it's not blowing I find that level of faff totally unappealing. Mildly entertaining watching others do it though 😃 I always stuff the front of the tent in first so I know the rear is going to come out of the bag first. Also never found decent cordage to get tangled on guy lines so don't hank them. The cheap, loosely woven stuff on cheaper tents is another story. I had a dcf tent briefly & folding & rolling was the recommended method for the good of the fabric - PITA. I'd never stuff a stock tent in the shop where I work but that's a presentation issue.
I bought an oversize OEX tent bag for when I'm pulling down my kit. I stuff it in and then sort it out when I get home after drying it and repacking it.
Prefer a properly packed tent to head out with for exactly the reasons you mention of wind, rain, people lurking and setting up in the dark.
Great video as always Mr M. 👍
Hi Paul. I have used the 'stuff it' method at times, but only on the last morning ie heading home. I ALWAYS get the tent out to dry it properly regardless, check for damage and dirt, tie all the guys into easy-to-untie knots so they don't flap in the wind next time or get in a tangle with each other at any time. But - never store a tent rolled, or stuffed for that matter, however dry you thought it was on packing. I store mine as I do sleeping bags, in large, loose net or cotton type bags, zero compression so air can circulate. Obviously always store said bags somewhere that can't ever get damp or humid. I went to the Lakes one time, after not using my old Nallo 2 (C1996 vintage) for some time, which was rolled up in its stuff sack (placed there after no doubt following my own advice, as above). After pitching the tent, I could see the floor had de-laminated. Were it not for the fact I was using some 2 mm closed cell matting as a footprint-cum-extra insulation under the floor, I might have had a pretty soggy trip - been forced to either bale on the trip, or bale out the tent! My advice - never leave tents rolled up in storage if at all possible. Always air and inspect tents once back at home, then tie guys before storing tent. On trips of two or more nights I always tie guys/pull-outs etc before dropping the tent to roll before putting into stuff sack. Or a dry bag - stops a wet tent making stuff in the pack soggy - which you can still squash down as you describe with your 'stuff it' method. This works regardless of how you pack a tent down. And it works particularly well with wet tents, which tents often are in the morning, rain or condensation etc. On longish trips it may not always be possible to wait for tents to dry fully anyway. Side note - even when new-ish, even silnylon tents can hold on to quite a bit of water. The same Nallo 2, above, weighed 2.2 kg dry, and over 3.5 kg wet (weighed on same scale when home), after much shaking a flapping of tent to 'remove' as much water as - was not, so it seems - possible. Just a thought. (I know people who 'dry' their tents with various cloths in the morning to save time and weight. But then you have a wet cloth, which will stay wet if it is raining during the day. Just another thought, one of a gazillion acquired during a 50 year backpacking life. Btw, being 65 now, and with one titanium and plastic knee, ditto hip, and some titanium plates and screws in a foot, two rebuilt shoulders and one elbow, knowing whichever tent and other gear I am using when out in what can be pretty hostile country - the Torridons, Letterewe/Fisherfiled, and Assunt etc - are all in Grade A condition is crucial. It ain't like the Brecons, my old weekend hills, where you are never more than a few km from a road or pub... (-;)~
Great video as always, I've always taken the time to roll mine away, In high winds Id crawl down the tent as I unroll it, making sure it stays tight. Also stops me getting wet/dirty knees 😅
I just got an helm 2 and I was struggling to get it back at a reasonable volume as it was from factory. Great timing! Thanks Paul for the tips
Great tent been using it for 2 months now. Bring on the snow, it I'll cope.
When I get ready to break my tent down, I first roll up and tie the guy lines by making 6 inch diameter loops with them until I’m left with about a foot or less, then I make smaller wraps holding the larger wraps together around them, then I shove a bit through all the longer loops and go up and over, then back down, pull it tight and you’re all set. After that I remove my poles and store them into my pack. All that’s left after that is to pull my stakes and stuff my tent into the bag, which I do starting at whatever end I want to have facing away from the wind once I take it back out to set it up. Stuff it in the bag as I’m pulling stakes and it’s ready to go.
I’ve always preferred to fold and roll. The oversized opening in a lot of the wild country bags is great for getting the tent away quickly if it’s hammering down as well! Way easier than trying to squeeze the tent into a small opening in the end of a tube like so many other tent bags ⛺️
Thanks! Wishing you the best.
thanks so much for this
I've always folded and rolled my tents. It's just so much easier to peg the end down in wind. My Vango is inner first and it's a pain in bad weather - you just have to work fast! I do leave the outer loosely folded under my rucksack while folding/rolling the inner to minimize time in the wet. And I pack it separately inside the bag. The outer then gets rolled up and goes on top of the bag on the outside(it's already wet!). My other two tents are outer first and I pack everything up inside the tent, including the inner, before venturing outside to dismantle the outer. Again the inner in the bag and the outer outside on top. I don't have one that pitches combined inner/outer so I'm not sure what I'd do with that! And my Saunders Fellpine has been folded and rolled the same way since 1978 and there's no sign of creasing damage.
With me also using a 4 man airbeam tent I've always been a folder and roller! For wildcamps I fold/roll and then put in a dry bag rather than the bag the manufacturer supplied.
Great video Paul! I’ve always folded & rolled my tents per the instructions provided with each tent. My older tents have now lasted 16-20 years. With the stuff method I would be worried about some of the hardware punching holes in delicate fabrics such as the mosquito mesh.
Paul, I also am one of those who used to stuff the tent in a dry bag!! i am planning a wild camp this weekend and I will give your way ago and see how i get on!.
Makes a lot of sense, sometimes we forget about how simple solutions can have big rewards ..God bless ..lee
I have my hammock setup ready to roll out with the under quilt already attatched..super quick to set up
That was a really useful tip Paul , thanks for sharing.
Dave B. Thailand.
I usually stuff my tent with an orientation so i always know what side is the first to come out.
I also let a tent peg loop be the first ting sticking out of the stuffsack so I can pinch down the tent.
Nice plan stan !!
Rolling has always been my favourite way of packing away. 👍
Oh, I've always folded and rolled my tents - thought everyone did LoL 🙃 thanks.for the vid
Roll the tent when the weather allows, but to make life easy, if you have to stuff in bad weather having your guys and pegging points colour coded (I use yellow front corners orange rear corners) helps you work out what's what when you pitch the following day.
Yup...like many here I’ve always rolled my tents. I’ve always folded the vestibule to the middle along the straight line of the bathtub floor, then carried on from there. That way the inner also never got any moisture either direct from rain or from the fly as always covered. Guilty of not always keeping the guy lines wrapped neatly...!
Always rolled it away with inner pitch and inner and outer together, but I use the poles in their bag to start the roll. It's easier to grip, especially with cold, wet hands and you're less likely to forget your poles when its getting a bit hectic.
Great little tip that Paul. Tbh I roll, but your method is def more practiced !! great ty
I'm a 'shover' as well. Always tie my guy lines into a loop before packing up though. Stops the tangling.
cool..good job
Paul :
Very good video !
Some extremely
heipful information !
Mike
I have always rolled my tents like that. Then I always know where the door is. That way I can get my back pack in there to act as a hold down and keep it out of the weather. :)
I've taken to rolling my guylines around their related tent pegs. Having a little cap on the peg's pointy bits gives a bit of peace of mind.
I've taken to a new approach to packing. I'm not sure who decided the 'right' way to pack a backpack is the way that I keep seeing, but a lot of it just makes no sense from a physics perspective and negatively affects your balance. I've started flattening things out into the space of the pack itself, so that the item is thin but as large as the pack is wide and tall. Even my sleeping bag gets this. I've even gone so far as to start using drybags (and am ready to use space-saver vacuum bags) to store things. The space saver bags are watertight and since I'm carrying a pump anyway, which is also a vacuum pump, I may as well take advantage of that. It makes the pack much thinner, which keeps my balance far better, and keeps EVERYTHING dry. There's also a ton more room even in my relatively modest Zulu 40. Give it a shot.
I always roll my tent up, it's long and thin and fits just right in my backpack
Would it be possible for a quick vid on how you tie your guy lines so they are quick release please? I’ve never been able to get it to work and you made it look so easy, although I couldn’t see how you tied them off at the end
Love that tip Paul.
In your old vids I copied you with the dry bag.
Now I will do your updated idea 👍
Atb Graham
Good tip, peg and roll
Tbh mate I have always folded and rolled my tents for year I never just stuff my tents in I always roll and fold towards the door, to let the air build up out. Good wee video though mate. Atb Wullie ✊🏻🏴
I stuff my tent in the dry bag middle first, leaving the pegging points till last so I know where the door end is (I use different colour cord for the front pegging points) but the best way is the one that works for you👍🏻
Good video
I always fold the dry bits inside and roll it . Keeps things cleaner and I know even if my head isn’t working when i pull tent out all my pitch loops present themselves as soon as it pops out of sleave
Agreed paul ....a much better way , I think it depends on the tent aswell mate cheers marra 😃🏕
Nice vid Paul. I'm a roller not a baller🤘 🤣 I always pack mine on the outside of my bag too. Means I can pack everything in my tent, nice n dry, then put tent on the outside. The scarp is difficult to tell which way round the doors are, half the time I forget to check and end up getting the wind straight into the tent. U got me thinking now how I could resolve this 🤔👍
ATB 👩&🐕
Always prefer to roll the tent up ready for the next use. Think you can achieve the same results more or less if rolled well. It definitely helps when pitching. If it's rubbish weather when packing up in the morning I might do a quick job of stuffing it into a dry bag to shortcut the miserable task of packing up in the rain. Same with my tarps. Always struggle to get my tarps in their bags when just stuffed in. Plus I have pulling out a scrunched tarp. Looks a mess.