When it was Thought that the Marsupial Lion was a Herbivore
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- Опубліковано 6 вер 2024
- The marsupial lion was one of the most fearsome predators to have lived in Australia. Although it was a marsupial and so not closely related to any of the placental mammals found on other continents they demonstrate remarkable convergent evolution to the predators found elswhere. Howeever the differed in some important ways namely they had enlarged incisors. Due to these strange features early naturalists thought they were herbivirous.
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Interesting how they evolved such drastically different dentition, yet still convergently evolved retractable claws.
@@reinerbazzi9744 What do you mean?
@@dondragmer2412 retractable fangs
@@stephenlitten1789 Thylacoleo's fangs (fang-like incisors) weren't retractable, nor were it's claws except for the large folding thumb claw which did not retract internally like a cat's. Nor did a tarantula's fangs retract like a cat's, but folded back somewhat like the Thylacoleo's thumb claw. So I get the imperfect analogy.
@@stephenlitten1789 more like tarantulas and vipers. Vipers can fold back their fangs too.
@@dondragmer2412
Thylacoleo claws WERE retractable.
This channel never ceases to impress
the vids are so cozy
@@goRoberth I listen to these when I go to sleep, like now :)
Thylacoleo is one of my all time prehistoric creatures! I'll be sharing this on my Facebook page, I love your stuff! Yours is one of the main channels that inspired me to look into getting into making videos.
Love your channel too keep up the good work!
Mothlight Media = evolution to sleep to.
Seriously, you should do longer form "to sleep to" videos, your voice is super calming
That's exactly what I do when I can't sleep, I just put on a Mothlight Media Playlist. And I don't mean it in a negative way, his videos are great content, but it's just like you said, his voice is so relaxing.
Love this , would love to see the Australian migration as a cartoon movie...iceage style
Larrikins
That would be amazing
@@evirapo5070 larrikins had dingoes in it, so it doesn't really count.
@@yerman0564 aren’t dingos Australian doesn’t that mean it counts
@@coltkillergaming5685 Dingos were introduced to Australia by humans about 5,000 years ago. They are the same species as domestic dogs, just a wild variety.
it's a good day
It most certainly is. Well said. ✌️
Anytime Moth Light Media releases a new video its a good day 😇
...to be not dead.
It's interesting when you think of a rapid succession of adaptive radiation and convergent evolution made a lot of marsupials appear in similar forms to placental mammals, kangaroos being the most notable exception.
Thylacaleo being another, almost like it was on the way to be more like a feline but never really made it. Those teeth though are mad. The only thing you can compare them to are dunkleosteous, I can't think of anything else matches those blades.
There are miniature placental "kangaroos" in the forms of kangaroo rats and mice, jerboas and the springhaas.
@@dondragmer2412 actually it is deer
Koalas are also more closely related to wombats than to other diprotodonts, in fact the superfamily Vombatoidea is the only living superfamily of diprotodonts within the suborder Vombatiformes.
vomit of the mouth understood only by vultures
@@sergeantsonso3490 What?
Where is my evidence?
The real dropbear. It has the coolest looking teeth
I often find myself getting unusually emotional about marsupials. there's something about the idea on my head of a few little possums wandering around and ending up in Australia and then becoming so many amazing things
Australia proves that it's the exception that makes the rule.
Or the Mongols proves the same thing with the historic record.
Earth's test file
Plz Make A Video About The Evolution Of Weasels
@MercurialMærc Oh Ok
They came from Hell and woke up on the wrong side of the bed.
@@UmamiPapi hahaha best description of mustelids I've ever seen
@@UmamiPapi they went to hell for mass genocide of chickens, and broke back out by murdering Satan himself.
@@yerman0564 weasels convergently evokved with lil nas x; confirmed
Both capable of and willing to kill and take over satans role in the theological ecosystem
So it turns out that Sir Richard Owen was occasionally correct.
I think that the front teeth layout of the marsupial lion might actually be better then canine teeth because it focuses all the power into a single point. Kinda like a spear vs a trident
you might have a point there ...
it kinda reminds me of the circuadogs in serina ...
Iirk canines are typically used to hold on to prey not to actually kill. There are a few exceptions such as Smilodon which are speculated to have used their saber teeth to piece the jugular veins of it's victims. So having more attachment points is an advantage which is probably why most carnivores have widely spaced canines.
It won't be replicated ever again unfortunately. The current odds are stacked against the closest living relatives.
@Azhag Dark hey we see different kinds of haws bro 👀
@@99bulldog its victims.
From a purely mechanical point of view, the Thylacoleo incisors seem like they have a more optimal placement for both generating a ton of force and resisting sideways movement than the typical canine teeth. Could still be more optimal to puncture the trachea in two places, but idk.
If we consider it functionally similar to a beak, it has advantages and disadvantages. The placement does generate more force at a single point, and it is more resistant to horizontal force. However, having two points of penetration helps grip a target more securely, preventing it from slipping wriggling free. Looking at other hunters, this beak-like placement seems to be favoured for animals hunting hard-shelled prey (turtles and dunkleosteous both had a beak-like jaw to hunt arthropods, and many insectivorous birds hunt with their beak), while beaked hunters of soft-bodied prey often use other means to kill their targets (birds of prey typically rely on their claws). However, predators that specialise in mammals, as well as in most fish and reptiles, and do kill with their jaws, have canines that give them two points of control over their prey (virtually all carnivorans and dasyuromorphia that are not insectivorous).
@@Joshua_Hale The security of the hold is a great point. Thank you.
Let's feed the almighty algorithm. Love your intro, never change it please
Cool video, mate
I like when you says once upon a time again
words cannot express the joy i feel every time you upload a video
I would love to see more videos on Australian Megafauna. Great video!!!
Prehistoric marsupials and Australia in general is such an underrated topic. There's so much uniqueness and convergent evolution at work here that it's a travesty that it's hardly ever spoken about in favor of much more cliche subjects. However, the massive transformative influence that marsupials have had on Australia makes you wonder what was Austalia's biodiversity like before the migration of marsupials happened?
I don't think it's under-rated. I've seen plenty of discussion. And of the South American marsupials, litopterns, xenarthrans and notoungulates too.
Thank you again for such a wonderfully researched and presented documentary!
Another Moth Light Media to make my day,a lot more interesting,and I love this channel.
Also I wish y'all amazing people great day.
Why was it hard to assume a carnivore could evolve film a herbivore ancestor when herbivorous dinosaurs evolved from carnivorous ancestors?
Well because carnivore lifestyle is more demanding as opposed to a herbivore or omnivore.
Because again, it took place in 18th century which means that they had less data and information about ecology and evolutionary history, also assumption of the herbiverous diet in thylecaleo was speculative at that time, simply because information they possesed said otherwise.
Because it usually happens only once. The first group that evolves to eat meat has no real competition and so quickly filles up all the carnivore niches. Then different species evolve from this starting population to fit those niches even better. A second group that starts evolving in the same direction has to face competition with animals that are already very well adapted to that lifestyle. It's a a bit like a young, newly trained chef trying to open the first restaurant in a town vs. coming to a city that already has many different restaurants with experienced chefs and a good reputation - it is possible, especially if you have some new talent or secret recipe, but it will be much harder.
Well you have to imagine that one day a herbivore just decided to take a bite out of some animal, and it liked it
@@ElZilchoYo it happens more often than you might think. ua-cam.com/video/aWcGEo4OqhU/v-deo.html
I really respect Thylacoleo, for living in a world full of giant crocodiles and monitor lizards and huge towering birds - it was a mammal ferocious enough to stand among them.
Could some herbivorous marsupial species evolve to be similar to Thylacoleo later on?
Well yes ,but it's a case of environmental impact and resource availability ,. Many species are just going to become extinct leaving no lineage or subspecies behind . Humanity does not allow enough space for the animals we have imagine if there were thylacalio or thylacine ... The tazzie tiger whent extinct because of humans .
the most likely scenario might be a wallaby becoming a pursuit predator ...
@@mammadingo9165 Why don't humanity allow them to thrive? That's just selfishly problematic & harmful for respectful tourists, zoos, nature documentaries and other animal type experts. I hate seeing animals go extinct, especially marsupials. I'm very curious on what their sub species descendants could be later on. 🤦♂️
@@davidegaruti2582 Assuming Dingos & stray dogs don't completely replace them.
@@UnwantedGhost1 yeah , mine was an hypotetical , it would be cool but it wouldn't appen
Yet another banger, thanks Moth Light Media
4:35/8:34 - 8:38 Megalania, Quinkana, Wonambi and other Plio/Plesitocene aussie reptiles have left the chat.
Great video
I swear you and melodysheep are so underrated!
They seem to be rated just fine. Who is underrating those channels?
@@cwtrain idk man, I guess liking them means they’re underrated now. 🤷♂️
I have to sneeze
Look at a light for a few seconds , ... Did you sneeze?
@@mammadingo9165 thanks, I did but it's been going on all day I think I have a sinus infection
@@SonicMatrix64 oh crap , don't put shit off mate ,go to the doctor's get a prescription nip it in the butt... Antibiotics , covid test .
I always feel calm watching these videos. Please never change ❤️
Watched this video, was completely enamored. Bought one of your shirts. It's a good day.
I've heard that Thylacoleo also had opposable thumbs, probably another holdover from its smaller and more arboreal ancestors. For me that makes it an even more terrifying predator.
This is my favorite UA-cam channel
Thylacoleo: Carnivore yet he has herbivore teeth
Some people: lol it’s a herbivore
Some? More like a lot. Thankfully Wikipedia is becoming more mainstream so everyone can access & do research on these awesome animals.
More like dunkelosteus teeth
No. It has carnivore teeth in the form of those canine-like incisors and carnassial shearing side teeth like those of cats, ideal for slicing through meat.
@@dondragmer2412 I know, it’s just those people who thought it was a herbivore it’s actually a carnivore lol
This is so cool!
TY from Australia
Always learning something new!!!
Sempre aprendendo algo novo!!!
Once more a great video! This is my favourite channel dedicated to paleobiology - thanks for your effort and finding the great paleoart you always include.
The Thylacaleo wasn't called the Tasmanian Lion, it was called the MARSUPIAL Lion.
The Tasmanian lion was a now extinct large carnivore from Tasmania found during the British colonialism of the island
@@thebookman1036 You're confusing the Marsupial lion (Thylacaleo carnifex) with the Tasmanian Tiger (Thylacine). I'm from Australia and have done uni papers about T.carnifex. Trust me, it's never been referred to as the Tasmanian lion. In fact, I don't think any Thylacaleo fossils have even been found in Tasmania. The majority of the known fossils come from South Australia and Victoria, with cave art depicting it found in the Kimberly.
I picked that up too, I think the narrator might have used it once by accident, mostly he refers to it as the Marsupial Lion
Very nice! I really enjoyed it, and learned something about one of my favorite extinct critters.
If you search up fusa a, Madagascar predator that looks like a cat but is related to a mongoose has retractable claws and everything. Obviously evolved that way to fill in the cats niche since there weren't any in Madagascar. Just like how the Tasmanian tiger evolved to fill in the niche of the wild dogs
I've been subscribed with notifications since first video and somehow this one slipped through without me knowing.
Love this channel
I'm so glad there's more light shining on thylacoleo. It's my fav animal of all time so see it gain attention from great creators such as yourself is great!
Oh Australia, your animals are always exceptional!!
Awesome topic, superbly presented! I was just looking through some older videos of you for inspiration to my worldbuilding project and didn't realize at the first moment this one's new :)
You and PBS Eons make life worth living
I love how the first dude got it right, especially with the very limited material to work with at the time
A day you upload is a day of joy
Another incredibly high quality video to get my day started. I absolutely love this channel.
Someone test the bite force of these weirdos I love them
On a scale of "hey stop it" to "omg my arm is GONE!"
Someone did! When adjusted for body mass, they found they have a comparable bite force to actual African Lions! www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1564077/
I think Thylacoleo's bite force has already been estimated to surpass that of the spotted hyena.
The living mammal with the stongest bite force relative to its size is the Tasmanian Devil, which of course is also a marsupial carnivore.
Solid video. I definitely enjoyed it. You should cover it's South American cousin Thylacosmilus. I'd really love to see a channel like yours take on a full length Documentary. Maybe all mammalian carnivores/families. Or a documentary per continent on each continent carnivores. Or maybe a full length documentary on types elephantiforms throughout time.
I love this channel!
Could you do a video on marine gastropods? I've been trying to find information about the evolution of sea slugs, sea angels, and sea butterflies, to get an idea for when they first appeared, but there doesn't seem to be any readily available information about their evolutionary history. Is this just a gap in our knowledge of the fossil record?
Their ancestors go back to the cambrian or precambrian probably.
Owen- "They called me a madman."
I love your videos!
As always - great content! I'm interested in where does evolution goes. Are humans slowly changing? Why?
What do you mean by "where evolution goes"?
I feel like this guy is the Bob Ross of nature videos, please do a video on pseudosuchians
Can you do a video on the evolution of the tasmanian devil
My biggest dream is for a marsupial lion character to be in the amazing digital circus
Australia is also home to giant lizard Megalania and last terrestrial crocodile Quinkana. Can you explain why terrestrial crocodiles didn't survive until modern day?
Having to compete for megafauna herbivores with early modern humans? Also changing climate making said megafauna herbivores even more uncommon?
Humans are them all.
@@erichtomanek4739 ate
It’s where the Dropbear legend comes from
DRINKING GAME!!!
Take a sip of your drink when there is:
- a time lineage
- a genetic tree
- a new animal's illustration
- a size comparison chart
Take a shot when:
- the narrator says "however"
love your channel it is very informative
Awesome video!
You know how koalas have their double thumbs?
Imagine if Thylacoleo had them, they’d be even more deadly, with double thumb claws, perfect for dispatching prey.
The Marsupial Lion is probably my new favorite prehistoric animal
It's rumoured that they're still out here in the forests.
Moth Light Media 👍
So: it has big pointy teeth?
Now do when diprotodon was thought to be carnivorous
This channel is fkn awesome and I can't wait for the next video
i would love nothing more then a video with the centerweight onto the allosaurids
How is this channel only 200k subs?
Humans like to label creatures into neat little boxes, Mother Nature and Evolution just laugh like a pair of toddlers about to destroy a Huge block castle.............
Nowadays the top marsupial predator in Australia is the size of a cat.
Sadly
Thanks that was great
Pound for pound., I'd say The Marsupial Lion was the most fearsome predator, during it's time, on Australia. I say that knowing it was contemporary with, at least, three other "mega" Predators. Those predators being Megalania, Quinkana and Wonambi.
Cool
ah yes , the reverse panda , from herbivore to carnivore
Sir richard owen was a genius
Pig evolution !!!!!
Interesting
make a video about the Evolution Of marsupials and another about the Evolution Of Placentals
O correto é "Make a video".
@ do and make a vídeo are the same thing
@@pedrogabrielduarte4544
DO e MAKE não são sinônimos.
@ o que você quer de mim!
Só te corrigi mesmo porque sei que és um falante nativo de português. @@pedrogabrielduarte4544
I think this should add it in Jurassic World chaos theory
Excellent topic!!
There is a carnivorous rodent in australia called the water rat or rakali not a marsupial of course ,but a similar thing in terms of evolution.
Teeth can be very misleading in evolution. Like you say, evolution can only work with what it has. Like with humans, the fact that we lost our cecums (and our upper intestines are half our gut mass) says much more than we'd assume from our teeth alone.
What are cecums?
we lost cecums because we stopped eating leaves for the most part, we started going for all kinds of fruits, as well as vegetables. We don't need cecums for that
@@alvaronavarro4895 Small ‘dead ends’ in the intestine, used to expand the surface area for nutrient absorption. Common in herbivores, reduced to nothingness is most carnivores.
@@austinhinton3944 ooooh, interesting!
@@ReivasMC there is a lot of debate about what the early human diet was. When I see the abundance of research, revealing so many different pieces of information, I have to accept that it's complicated.
The Australia meta of animals is weird
Thank you mr moth
I don't have time to search for BK Jeong's comment, a reply to my comment, that showed up on my cell phone a couple of hours ago but I lost it on my cell; regarding retractable claws on Thylacoleo. He (or she) said: It did have retractable claws. I haven't read about this critter much the last few years. Most recently I had an old Nat Geo which I couldn't find because it's buried beneath stacks of other NGs. Maybe there is updated information on its claws. I checked some websites and many are ambivalent or inconsistent, some saying it had retractable claws, but not if all or only some were retractable, and saying "like cats" but how closely to cats? I looked at some pictures and photos of fossils but none clear enough to show that any claws were retractable in the same way as cats.' The only definite datum I could glean was that the semi-opposable thumb claws on the forepaws were retractable. But those are not retractable in the same way as those of cats. They would pivot rearward or upward and therefore not catlike in this motion and apparently were not contained within a sheath when retracted. The article, from a scientific paper (sorry, I'll look up the link later) did not mention retractable claws on the other digits and the pictures do not show catlike sheaths on any of the claws. I would appreciate it if anyone else could find some accurate scientific information and I'll keep looking myself. Bear in mind also that there were other, smaller Thylacoleo species and other genera, such as Wakaleo, Priscileo and Microleo, which maybe did not have the same morphology on its feet as did Thylacoleo.
Why were then dasyuromorphs unable to evolve to larger size classes?
Can you do a video about axolotls?
I play minecraft too!
@@nogoodgod4915 HAHAHAHAHAH actually i wanted it because its such a unique animal with unique healing abilities
Спасибо!
was taught that that the runescapial flygon was herblore
God a few million years back:
God : Hey , michael?
Archangel Michael : yes?
God : remember the dunkleosteus , like , 348 million years ago?
Archangel Michael : yes. Why?
God : now let's make it a land mammal.
Archangel Michael : What.
When the herbivore is a carnivore
I wonder how whould it be like if those animals were still alive to this day ?