My Patreon: www.patreon.com/cuivlazygeek WarpAstron Homepage: www.warpastron.com/?lang=en Buy the WD-20 mount: www.warpastron.com/product/warpdrive-wd-20-harmonic-drive-mount/?lang=en Or via a reseller here: ja.aliexpress.com/item/1005006263413635.html (I'm informed that you may want to message the vendor to negotiate a discount!) Detailed specs: www.warpastron.com/2023/12/07/wd-20-harmonic-drive-mount/?lang=en Amazon affiliate: amzn.to/3hTB5Ne Agena affiliate: bit.ly/3Om0hNG High Point Scientific affiliate: bit.ly/3lReu8R All-Star Telescope affiliate: bit.ly/3SCgVbV Dwarf 2 Smart Telescope: bit.ly/3SyChXua Seestar S50: tinyurl.com/3n62hpzx
Wow, this is the first time I've gone from never hearing about a product to wanting to buy one by the end of the video! Even at this price point, there is nothing to dislike. My EQ6-R is serving me well, but I may very well consider this mount in the future. I will be watching with anticipation.
I have a WD20 which I use in combination with a C925HD and RASA8. With a carbon fiber tripod and without using counterweights, the guiding can achieve 0.3" (ASIAIR value). The self-weight and precision make it very satisfying to use. Now, my RST135 is only used for visual observation, and I go straight for the WD20 for imaging.
I have an RST-135 as well. Does the WD20 seem to be more compatible with the ASIAIR then the RST? I've had some slewing issues with the RST where the mount doesn't seem to know where it is, like it's in the wrong hemisphere at times!
Cuiv I really appreciate your reviews. You said it yourself ... Don't get bummed out with the CN comments. I don't see any of the commenters spending as much time providing how to videos or product reviews as you do. You can assume that we are all adults and take each piece of information into account before making purchase decisions.
Thanks so much Martin! I always try to be as objective as possible (and what others don't realize is that I get a LOT of review requests, and reject most of them to focus on only the stuff that would be interesting for my audience, and that looks like it would be good), so it's always a bit painful to see such comments... But I'm so thankful for your support, and for having my back :) Cheers and clear skies!
Onstep was written and developed by Howard Dutton. There is a massive user group and wiki. I use it to control my home built friction driven equatorial fork mount. It is a phenomenal piece of software able to control anything you want to control on your telescope and Howard made it free for anybody to use.
I tried my first night out with a WD-17. There is certainly a lot to love about it but I wanted to list a couple gripes. 1) The hand controller buttons. They are not backlit. The layout is simple enough to use by feel, but backlit would be nice. 2) The hand controller buttons. They are small and stiff. Navigating the menus takes lots of button presses and it actually gets uncomfortable well before the end of the night. 3) No mechanical home switch. The WD-17 lots its home location after 10 minutes of use. There's a menu to reset home, and I suppose getting it to the correct position is no more difficult than doing a polar alignment, so not a disaster, but it made me appreciate how robust the homing is on my AM3. 4) Not silent at all. My AM3 makes noise when slewing but none when tracking. The WD-17 makes a constant high-pitch whine. The closest thing I can think of is the sound some electric vehicles make when they are backing up (but quieter than that). I have better high-pitch hearing that most people my age, so that might not be a downside for everyone, but it was pretty obnoxious to me. I'm sure it excels in terms of performance, but less so in the sensory aspects of the user experience.
On a AM5 I snug the lock screws down so they take out all the backlash..... adjust against the semi tight lock and when perfect just tighten even more. I don't have an issue with moving of the PA when locking down. Also make sure you do that process for both axis. At first I noticed the play but after my trick it isn't an issue any more.
@@rkberta yeah that’s what I do I just get it like 90% tight and then give it the final little twist to snug it in but if you didn’t have to worry about it it’s always a nice feature. There’s always a workaround for a problem, but if somebody eliminates a problem, that’s even better.
@kerube That's pretty simple . First, notice how is balanced your mount . On my Am5, I noticed it wants to "fall back", i.e. it has tendency to naturally go up. So I tighten the Alt screw like 80/90%, and do the polar align, always finishing with a move that counteracts the balancing, so in my case a "down" move. When alignement is achieved, I tighten the 10/20% remaining . For azimuth, same process. As there is no left or right unbalance, just finish with the direction you want, east or west, as long as you finish the last fine adjustments in the same direction
Of course I want it....but my AM5 works very well, and my current budget rejected it without comment. That said, the lack of backlash makes me drool with envy. Once again Cuiv, you are a true geek. Your technical analysis on gear makes for some of the best videos in the entire astrophotography environment, Thank you!
WarpAstron website recovered, due to increasing traffic that trigger the flow protection of server. We've an upgrade plan for this in future. Thanks for your visit. - WarpAstron
Thanks for the video! I have been eyeing this mount for some time and your video may just help me make my decision. Last year I bought the Pegasus Astro NYX-101 mount hoping it would carry my C11 EdgeHD. That was a huge disappointment. My OTA with all the gears weighs about 22kg, which is way below the payload of 35kg the NYX-101 claimed to be able to carry with counter weight. But the torque is obviously too much for the mount to handle and the stepped RA motor would slip and lose all torque and crash my OTA to the tripod. This happened to me about five times and luckily it didn't break the scope. (There are many other issues with NYX-101 so I really do not recommend it to anyone.) WD-20 with the servo motor seems much more promising. I have been waiting to see some more in-depth review before making a decision. Your video is timely and extremely helpful! So thanks a lot!
That’s super sad to hear about the NYX-101, as a AM5 owner I’ve been eyeing that due to its advertised much higher weight capacity. So little reviews on it compared to AM5, so your experience just shot it for me, as well as excitement about this one if I ever get the chance to do that upgrade.
That's super disappointing about the NYX-101! Yeah steppers may lack the torque needed, and I think that would even impact guiding responsiveness. But glad my video helped!
Great review. While it doesn’t need a counterweight, I think I’d like the option of one to manage the centre of gravity and improve the stability of the tripod.
Looks very nice, and not bad at that price point. My biggest complaint with modern electronic gear, is how weak the cable connectors are. Not just in astro gear, but all the way around. USB C, Power connectors, etc. can easily be pulled out with movement. I guess if a cable gets caught while slewing, maybe this is better as it would not break the connector, as I have had happen. However, I have also had cables come out with vibration, and potentially temp changes, which can be frustrating. I have a Ioptron HEM44EC, and so far have been pretty happy, but not sure how much the EC makes a difference. I still use guiding. Could also be something I am not doing right. I like the zero backlash on this mount. Quiet is good, don't disturb the deer that hang out when I am imaging!! Would love to see you do a review of the Pegasus mount sometime, if you haven't already. Nice build on that as well. Thanks for another great video!
Thanks Mark! I'm not too worried about USB-C since there's not relative motion between that part of the mount and the control center, but I used to share the same misgivings (no longer after testing this or the QHY Q Focuser)
I would love if one of the manufacturers would incorporate a motorized adjustment for polar allignment. Not on one of the portable mounts but in the next version of the EQ6 and its heavy weight competitors. That way Nina/ASIAIR could build a routine to automate this process - make the polar allignment results better in the end.
@@kskorobogatov I will look at that mount - my point is that the AZ/EL screws could be made to be motorized to help with the fine tuning over manually doing it.
That would be amazing, together with something like iPolar.... Avalon does have motorized adjustment for PA as an option, but not sure how it's controlled
Another great impartial review of a new product. A little on the pricey side but for those at the edge of the capacity of the AM5 it looks like a great option.
@@CuivTheLazyGeek ... I went to the VLA in New Mexico a few years back because of that movie. I have a time lapse on my channel of the Milky Way that I made right off of the highway next to the VLA.
Excellent video Cuiv. I really like this. That's amazing declination backlash. Overall guiding looks really really good. I'll have to update my wish list for my next Mount to this one.
The WD-20 looks a lot like the RainBow Astro mounts but with a significant and brilliant polar alignment adjustment. When you tilted the mount to show the bottom, I saw how they did it and such a great dedication to perfect PA! Looks (and sounds or lack thereof) like an awesome mount! Now if the vendor can fix their Alibaba hosted website so we can see more specs though it could be a region restriction from the US? Perfect review mate, left no questions about this mount unanswered! Clear skies!
Great to see such a good product from a company I've never heard of! I don't need this mount today, but maybe will be looking out for it in a couple of years time. (BTW am I the only one hoping they will do a WD-40 🤣)
I have the AM5 mount. Working very well with NINA and ASIAir. Only issue with it (and it will be worse with this mount) is the clearance with a long refractor and my pier when targets are near the zenith. You need to take care where filter wheels, oag’s etc are positioned to avoid them crashing into the pier and with the torque these mounts produce you definitely don’t want that. I’m getting total RMS of around 0.5 with a 102mm F7 refractor using an oag.
There are hybrid steppers with built in high count encoders, add a gearbox with anti-backlash gearing and the resolution and torque is more than adequate, additionally they are MUCH cheaper. (Beware - Often the Chinese manufacturers label them as Servos and charge accordingly ;) Harmonic drives are great but they have one big disadvantage - the flexible spline inside wears out limiting their operating life somewhat compared to conventional reduction drives.
The hand controller can modify it quickly. Changing Meridian E limit to 0, also explained in user manual. The new batch of mounts will use same meridian limits parameters with Cuiv’s😊
Absolutely the quietest mount I have ever heard. Or not. Similar in some ways to my NYX-101. It has a 22KG payload as well. But i'm pretty sure they use stepper motors and not servo controlled. I like the mount. And depending on the wx conditions, with a good polar alignment and PHD2 calibration, I can get some pretty decent guiding. Less than 1 second and many times closer to 0.5 arc seconds. And that's at 1422mm using an OAG. I'm waiting for you to tell us how much. If it's really good at guiding, it might be worth selling my NYX-101. ;o)
Interesting. Good to see growing competition for these mounts. I wonder.. if they release another mount.. if it will be call WD-40 and be resistant to rain. That would be a very cool feature :)
Great video and review of this new mount. It’s nice to see the technology progressing so quickly from the Rainbow mount I first saw at NEAF in 2019 to this latest release by yet another new company. You made the point of the tripod being the weak link in these small strain wave mounts. Are there alternative tripods that are both lightweight, but give some added stability while still providing the portability that people will buy these mounts for?
Hi Cuiv, while I don't dispute the engineering prowess of this mount, it looks pretty awesome, at that price it sadly will not be accompanying my EQ6-R any time soon. I am thinking about something like an AM3 though which load wise would handle any of the scopes I am likely to use in the near future.
Thanks for your support! And I absolutely agree - if the AM3 is good enough for your payloads then it makes sense to just go for that! I think this one is really for people needing to support more payload
No such thing as overkill... Over budget? Yes. Having recently retired and on a fixed income, I gotta be careful about even considering the am5 vs the eq6r pro for now... But, one can dream! 👍👍
Thanks for the new product review. Mount is an essential part of Astro tech. It looks nice and has a higher price tag than AM5, which gives us more choice. It looks like a Chinese company from Shanghai, like ZWO or Skywatcher from Taiwan. These are severe competitors. That is good for our hobbies.
The PA bump on the AM5 that happens when you tighten the adjustment knobs down is probably my biggest complaint about the design. I bet it's really nice to not have to deal with that!
Hi Cuiv, I have owned an AM5 for a bit over one year, and when it works, it works great. On two (perhaps 3) occasions, the mount has gone crazy. Symptoms: ASI AirPlus looses contact with the AM5. Polar alignment fails: Plate solves, then "movers" xx degrees, but only moves a bit, then just sits. Looses connection to guide camera.Resetting, changing cables, re-trying all fail. The first time I decided it was due to 12V plug (cigarette lighter style). Second time, I had upgraded my battery which now offers two 12V 5.5x2.1 plugs (10 amps). Nothing I did (plug/unplug. change cables, change which plug was used, etc... worked. Another night lost (I'm a "traveler", so this is painful. Back home, in the comfort of my home, no problems. I did notice on my iPad a setting called "low data mode" enabled. I doubt this is the problem, but I have turned it off. The weak link (IMO) for the ZWO AM5/ASI Air is the quality of the connectors and supplied cables. I've upgraded all cables, and do think that has helped, but the most recent failure is fresh on my mind. I will give it another go, but might consider upgrading to this mount (or the WD-17) if it fails again. There are other things I could do, that might address the problem I currently power the AM5 directly from my battery 12V plug (5.5x2.1), and use the 12V out from the AM5 to the ASI Air. I could run separate cables to both devices, and that might address the problem. I am using a 14 gauge 12 volt wire, so there should not be a problem with this configuration, but "who knows"? I also would like to be able to tighten the Aze/Alt locks without changing the polar alignment. I find tightening the AZE locks the most likely to upset the PA, so this is a bit of a hassle. I've also found the key to good guiding to be good PA. In any course, I'd be interested in your comments. Thanks, John
The era of traditional gears mounts is coming to an end. Harmonic and direct drive (e.g. Planewave) will come to dominate the premium and mid-level market. Great review.
Cuiv, many thanks for another great video. I noticed in the video you mentioned something about Meridian flip issues. Could you please share a bit more feedback on that ?
Basically just settings - Meridian east should be set to 0, and West to something like 2-3 degrees (10-15 minutes). It's now done by default on the mounts that ship!
Great mount, but living in Europe, I favor the NYX101 from Pegasus which boasts the same weight capacity and same price. The only difference is the Customer support from PA which has an excellent reputation (Paris-Athens-Paris in less than one week, repair included)
I wanted to, but at the time UMi wanted me to buy the mount upfront, and weren't able to provide a review sample... Maybe the situation is different now
Their website seems down. Anyway would love to have confirmation it really works with ASIAIR … not just yes onstep is supported, does it work over USB for example.
Hi Cuiv! Based on your feeling, do you think this mount can handle properly a 250/1200mm Newton for astrophotography? I'm considering this to replace my Ioptron CEM70, but I never tried an Harmonic before... I'm a little scared of the leap in the dark...
Paired with a very good tripod or pier, I think it would work well, although you may want to get the counterweight bar just in case (I think you'd be just below the 20kg capacity without CW)
The only thing i don't like is the altitude adjustment.... I think with such a beautiful mount that they would spend a little more time on this crucial adjuster.
This is really interesting and a great review. Where can I get one? The websites are not working and I cannot find it at any of the usual vendors in the US.
Very impressive indeed Cuiv. The only minor drawback I see with this mount is the use of a USB-C connector which is not very robust and may disconnect. By the way, you should really invest in a sturdier tripod, it’s the weak point in your system. I use a configuration pretty similar to yours (a 150 mm newtonian) and switching from the TC-40 to a Berlebach tripod really improved my guiding. And they are not very expansive, so it is a very worth while investment.
Thanks Damien! Yeah I need to get a better tripod for sure... I need to find one that is available in Japan, always difficult! I'm not so worried about USB-C anymore, although only time will tell!
@@swagonman the Uni 8 astro. You can buy it with an AM5 compatible top plate. I used it recently with a small refractor (the red cat 61) during a 65 km/h wind episode and was able to acquire 1 minute long exposures practically without losing a frame, which is pretty amazing IMHO.
Cuiv, i feel like we're seeing the beginning of an "arms race" in terms of mount technology. These strain wave mounts are very nice. Do you think we'll start to see companies such as Celestron either come out with their own, or drop prices on their mounts to compete?
hi Cuiv, like your videos a lot! I have a question : as I am doing astrophotography on my balcony, Can you prevent flipping at all with This Mount? I know these mounts are creating a lot of force …. but a Flip on the Balcony is difficult, sometimes cause the Space is Limited on Mine. Appreciate Your answer , Best regards from Germany, Claus
Hi Cuiv. Thanks for this very interesting video (as always !). Could you tell us the weight on the mount during your tests? And about those mounts w/o counterweight: can you evaluate the need to still use a counterweight from a certain optic size (I use a 10-inch Ritchey-Chrétien), in order to avoid tilting of the mount?
Looks like a very well-made mount, Cuiv! Can it be use in Alt-Az mode? I noticed a place for a counterweight bar. What is the max payload with a counterweight? Thanks for reviewing this! Looks very nice.
Greetings. Did you experience gravity pull when power is off and if so, how did you mitigate it? I have the RST-300 and struggle with gravity pull of the DEC as I park E-W home position. RA is locked but not DEC when pier is off. Great videos!
I want one of those because it guides very well and is light enough for me to setup each time at my dark site. Unfortunately a little too pricey at the moment and I would have to buy a suitable tripod in addition.
@@CuivTheLazyGeek No, I don't need the payload but all three mounts I have owned have all been loaded up to and beyond their recommended maximum so it would be nice to own a mount that can cope with my equipment with ease. I'll have a look at the smaller mount, thanks.
Wow, this mount is really impressive, thank you for this review! It's a bit unfortunate though, because it has only been 3 months since I bit the bullet and went for a belt-driven Avalon Linear in favor of harmonic drive options. And now I'm really starting to have second thoughts about it. At just under 15kg of payload, although with a considerably long 5" refractor - my Linear only delivers under winds of at most 2-3 m/s. At a comparable price (cheaper?!), WD-20 has larger capacity, is lighter and I'm guessing thanks to its rigidity will be useful under stronger winds 🤔
Very promising, I have an Avalon Linear since some time (currently no need to change) but if I ever consider to change that WD-20 would really be a very good candidate.
@Cuiv, The Lazy Geek I'm looking forward to the WD-17 (without the "S"). Very good Mount you've testet here. It will be interesting if you made a Video for the GPS funktion within NINA and this Mount.
Hi all Thks Cuiv for this information! To say the least, this video has sparked heated debate on forums such as Cloudy Nights... It's had the merit of awakening a field that's been humming along with relatively similar products... technically speaking. The day when a manufacturer can sell them for less than $2,000/€, he'll make a killing! At this price it will remain a dream for me... Can't wait to find out more, especially when the site can cope with the influx of connections, as the link is still down this morning..
Great review ,Looking for a possible replacement of my Vixen SXD2 replacement harmonic drives are more portable . Have you tried the Pegasus Astro NYX-101 also 20kg no counterweights not sure what motors are used stepper or synchronous?
Very nice review! I may have missed this but I guess there are locks so that if there’s a power loss, there is no scope flop (haven’t finished watching the whole video yet). My SS-One Traveler HD mount is also completely silent (as well as my DDM60).
The SS-One uses 2x Oriental Stepper Motor PKP262FD15AW-H100 driving the RA/Dec directly. So it was a surprise to me when I heard the AM5 cos I expected that to be silent too until someone did a teardown that I realised that there were still gears & belt drives in it. That explained the noise in the AM5 to me.
@cuivthelazygeek: in the Test Results section (20:30 ish) you say a few times that you're using the "Calibration Assistant" in PHD2, but you're not, that's the Guiding Assistant. Calibration Assistant is a thing in PHD2 too so you might want to add some overlay text to clarify if possible.
It is good to see these new mounts coming along, but if you get great images with your heq5 or eq6r then that is all that matters unless you are a tech geek
Very nice mount indeed with very impressive capabilities but what worry me is the support service, when I see that it is almost impossible to connect to their website...does Nina and the other software easily recognize this mount ? what about drivers , upgrades etc. Well in Europe this brand is quite unknown with no vendor. I think it is urgent to wait a little for us😁 This mount is really competitive and I really hope it will be represented soon here ! Keep doing this kind of review it is really usefull !!! thank's
Damned Cuiv I was about to place an order for the Ioptron HEA43 which has exactly the same weight and payload in the same range of price but now I think I'm going to wait a litle to see what append with this beauty in the coming months😁
My Patreon: www.patreon.com/cuivlazygeek
WarpAstron Homepage: www.warpastron.com/?lang=en
Buy the WD-20 mount: www.warpastron.com/product/warpdrive-wd-20-harmonic-drive-mount/?lang=en
Or via a reseller here: ja.aliexpress.com/item/1005006263413635.html (I'm informed that you may want to message the vendor to negotiate a discount!)
Detailed specs: www.warpastron.com/2023/12/07/wd-20-harmonic-drive-mount/?lang=en
Amazon affiliate: amzn.to/3hTB5Ne
Agena affiliate: bit.ly/3Om0hNG
High Point Scientific affiliate: bit.ly/3lReu8R
All-Star Telescope affiliate: bit.ly/3SCgVbV
Dwarf 2 Smart Telescope: bit.ly/3SyChXua
Seestar S50: tinyurl.com/3n62hpzx
The website is down. Good job Cuiv 😂
@@Thomas-mn5ih Cuiv the Crusher!
There goes Cuiv, shutting down websites just like Taylor Swift.
Bad link , why is it listed if it does not work???? was the link tested???? did it work and now it doesn’t????
@@1MoreMojo settle down, buddy. The website received more traffic than it was ready to handle, probably thanks in part to Cuiv's video.
Wow, this is the first time I've gone from never hearing about a product to wanting to buy one by the end of the video! Even at this price point, there is nothing to dislike. My EQ6-R is serving me well, but I may very well consider this mount in the future. I will be watching with anticipation.
I have a WD20 which I use in combination with a C925HD and RASA8. With a carbon fiber tripod and without using counterweights, the guiding can achieve 0.3" (ASIAIR value). The self-weight and precision make it very satisfying to use. Now, my RST135 is only used for visual observation, and I go straight for the WD20 for imaging.
Wow that's excellent feedback!! Thank you for sharing!!
I have an RST-135 as well. Does the WD20 seem to be more compatible with the ASIAIR then the RST? I've had some slewing issues with the RST where the mount doesn't seem to know where it is, like it's in the wrong hemisphere at times!
@@Lank871 me too
Cuiv
I really appreciate your reviews.
You said it yourself ... Don't get bummed out with the CN comments. I don't see any of the commenters spending as much time providing how to videos or product reviews as you do. You can assume that we are all adults and take each piece of information into account before making purchase decisions.
Thanks so much Martin! I always try to be as objective as possible (and what others don't realize is that I get a LOT of review requests, and reject most of them to focus on only the stuff that would be interesting for my audience, and that looks like it would be good), so it's always a bit painful to see such comments... But I'm so thankful for your support, and for having my back :)
Cheers and clear skies!
Maybe if we didn't have so many bridges, there wouldn't be so many trolls. Just keep being you, one informative and enjoyable person, 👍
Onstep was written and developed by Howard Dutton. There is a massive user group and wiki. I use it to control my home built friction driven equatorial fork mount. It is a phenomenal piece of software able to control anything you want to control on your telescope and Howard made it free for anybody to use.
Thanks for his work! And same to so much open software in the hobby like PHD2, INDI/Ekos, or NINA!!
I tried my first night out with a WD-17. There is certainly a lot to love about it but I wanted to list a couple gripes. 1) The hand controller buttons. They are not backlit. The layout is simple enough to use by feel, but backlit would be nice. 2) The hand controller buttons. They are small and stiff. Navigating the menus takes lots of button presses and it actually gets uncomfortable well before the end of the night. 3) No mechanical home switch. The WD-17 lots its home location after 10 minutes of use. There's a menu to reset home, and I suppose getting it to the correct position is no more difficult than doing a polar alignment, so not a disaster, but it made me appreciate how robust the homing is on my AM3. 4) Not silent at all. My AM3 makes noise when slewing but none when tracking. The WD-17 makes a constant high-pitch whine. The closest thing I can think of is the sound some electric vehicles make when they are backing up (but quieter than that). I have better high-pitch hearing that most people my age, so that might not be a downside for everyone, but it was pretty obnoxious to me.
I'm sure it excels in terms of performance, but less so in the sensory aspects of the user experience.
man PA staying the same after locking the adjustments down is a dream.
Yessss!
Better motors, and no backlash is awesome! The fact that the locking mechanism doesn’t bump the polar alignment. Thats super nice as well.
Totally agree!
On a AM5 I snug the lock screws down so they take out all the backlash..... adjust against the semi tight lock and when perfect just tighten even more. I don't have an issue with moving of the PA when locking down. Also make sure you do that process for both axis. At first I noticed the play but after my trick it isn't an issue any more.
@@rkberta yeah that’s what I do I just get it like 90% tight and then give it the final little twist to snug it in but if you didn’t have to worry about it it’s always a nice feature. There’s always a workaround for a problem, but if somebody eliminates a problem, that’s even better.
@@rkbertaperhaps my lack of experience with my eq6-r…. Could you please explain this process a bit better? Perhaps a video link? 🙏
@kerube
That's pretty simple .
First, notice how is balanced your mount . On my Am5, I noticed it wants to "fall back", i.e. it has tendency to naturally go up. So I tighten the Alt screw like 80/90%, and do the polar align, always finishing with a move that counteracts the balancing, so in my case a "down" move. When alignement is achieved, I tighten the 10/20% remaining .
For azimuth, same process. As there is no left or right unbalance, just finish with the direction you want, east or west, as long as you finish the last fine adjustments in the same direction
Of course I want it....but my AM5 works very well, and my current budget rejected it without comment. That said, the lack of backlash makes me drool with envy.
Once again Cuiv, you are a true geek. Your technical analysis on gear makes for some of the best videos in the entire astrophotography environment, Thank you!
Thank you! And remember: if it ain't broke, don't fix it! Keep your AM5 for now :D
WarpAstron website recovered, due to increasing traffic that trigger the flow protection of server. We've an upgrade plan for this in future. Thanks for your visit. - WarpAstron
Toujours derrière notre Français à Tokyo ! Keep that amazing work Cuiv !!!
Woohoo! Merci!
Beautiful Mount.... I am very impressed and you did an excellent review.
Thanks so much, and thanks for your support!
Thanks!
Oh wow!! Thank you!!
Thanks for the video! I have been eyeing this mount for some time and your video may just help me make my decision. Last year I bought the Pegasus Astro NYX-101 mount hoping it would carry my C11 EdgeHD. That was a huge disappointment. My OTA with all the gears weighs about 22kg, which is way below the payload of 35kg the NYX-101 claimed to be able to carry with counter weight. But the torque is obviously too much for the mount to handle and the stepped RA motor would slip and lose all torque and crash my OTA to the tripod. This happened to me about five times and luckily it didn't break the scope. (There are many other issues with NYX-101 so I really do not recommend it to anyone.) WD-20 with the servo motor seems much more promising. I have been waiting to see some more in-depth review before making a decision. Your video is timely and extremely helpful! So thanks a lot!
That’s super sad to hear about the NYX-101, as a AM5 owner I’ve been eyeing that due to its advertised much higher weight capacity. So little reviews on it compared to AM5, so your experience just shot it for me, as well as excitement about this one if I ever get the chance to do that upgrade.
That's super disappointing about the NYX-101! Yeah steppers may lack the torque needed, and I think that would even impact guiding responsiveness.
But glad my video helped!
This is a great review. I am really considering buying this mount...
As always, you the man. Thank you.
Cheers!
you should review the UMi! Ive had mine for about a month, I love it
What a wonderful review. Thank you. Would love to hear your review of their WD-17S mount.
I'll ask them if they're interested!
same here @@CuivTheLazyGeek
Great review. While it doesn’t need a counterweight, I think I’d like the option of one to manage the centre of gravity and improve the stability of the tripod.
Looks very nice, and not bad at that price point. My biggest complaint with modern electronic gear, is how weak the cable connectors are. Not just in astro gear, but all the way around. USB C, Power connectors, etc. can easily be pulled out with movement. I guess if a cable gets caught while slewing, maybe this is better as it would not break the connector, as I have had happen. However, I have also had cables come out with vibration, and potentially temp changes, which can be frustrating. I have a Ioptron HEM44EC, and so far have been pretty happy, but not sure how much the EC makes a difference. I still use guiding. Could also be something I am not doing right. I like the zero backlash on this mount. Quiet is good, don't disturb the deer that hang out when I am imaging!! Would love to see you do a review of the Pegasus mount sometime, if you haven't already. Nice build on that as well. Thanks for another great video!
Thanks Mark! I'm not too worried about USB-C since there's not relative motion between that part of the mount and the control center, but I used to share the same misgivings (no longer after testing this or the QHY Q Focuser)
Great review as always. Thanks! Say goodbye to belts and worm gears….This is another step into the future of amateur astronomy mounts.
I agree, worm gears are more and more a thing of the past, super happy to see so much innovation going on!
Nice review!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Thanks for reviewing this mount! Im always looking for innovation.
Same here!
I would love if one of the manufacturers would incorporate a motorized adjustment for polar allignment.
Not on one of the portable mounts but in the next version of the EQ6 and its heavy weight competitors.
That way Nina/ASIAIR could build a routine to automate this process - make the polar allignment results better in the end.
How about Artificial intelligence do all polar align, image and processing?
Avalon are offering a motorized polar alignment solution.
@@kskorobogatov I will look at that mount - my point is that the AZ/EL screws could be made to be motorized to help with the fine tuning over manually doing it.
This is an awesome idea. OpenAstroTracker has AutoPA, so it won't be a huge amount of work for manufacturers to incorporate them.
That would be amazing, together with something like iPolar.... Avalon does have motorized adjustment for PA as an option, but not sure how it's controlled
Another great impartial review of a new product. A little on the pricey side but for those at the edge of the capacity of the AM5 it looks like a great option.
Exactly! It's not cheap, but for people who need the features it makes sense!
11:21 ... Small moves Ellie... Absolutely fantastic movie !!!!
Yessss! I love that movie!
@@CuivTheLazyGeek ... I went to the VLA in New Mexico a few years back because of that movie. I have a time lapse on my channel of the Milky Way that I made right off of the highway next to the VLA.
Thanks Cuiv!! Fantastic review
Cheers!
OK, looks like a dream mount. Hope sky-watcher are watching.
I hope SW comes up with some strain wave gear driven mounts soon!
You’re the best inspiration Cuiv. Thank you as ever.
My pleasure!
Thanks Cuiv, another very professional and interesting video
I'm really thinking of purchasing one in a few months. Thanks for letting us know that it exists. 👍
Any time!
Finally, the age of NINJA MOUNTS begin!
Would be a nice brand name :D
Excellent video Cuiv. I really like this. That's amazing declination backlash. Overall guiding looks really really good. I'll have to update my wish list for my next Mount to this one.
Yep, mechanically the mount impresses for sure!
The WD-20 looks a lot like the RainBow Astro mounts but with a significant and brilliant polar alignment adjustment. When you tilted the mount to show the bottom, I saw how they did it and such a great dedication to perfect PA! Looks (and sounds or lack thereof) like an awesome mount! Now if the vendor can fix their Alibaba hosted website so we can see more specs though it could be a region restriction from the US? Perfect review mate, left no questions about this mount unanswered! Clear skies!
Thanks for the insights Dave!! And yes the site appearing down is not a good look, I do hope they fix it soon!!
As always a great and honest reveiw Cuiv!! I have learned so much from you. Thank you!
Great to see such a good product from a company I've never heard of! I don't need this mount today, but maybe will be looking out for it in a couple of years time.
(BTW am I the only one hoping they will do a WD-40 🤣)
A very slippery WD-40! :D
Another great review, Cuiv.
Very informative.
Is the mount AsiAir plus compatible?
I have the AM5 mount. Working very well with NINA and ASIAir. Only issue with it (and it will be worse with this mount) is the clearance with a long refractor and my pier when targets are near the zenith. You need to take care where filter wheels, oag’s etc are positioned to avoid them crashing into the pier and with the torque these mounts produce you definitely don’t want that.
I’m getting total RMS of around 0.5 with a 102mm F7 refractor using an oag.
wow
very impressive
There are hybrid steppers with built in high count encoders, add a gearbox with anti-backlash gearing and the resolution and torque is more than adequate, additionally they are MUCH cheaper. (Beware - Often the Chinese manufacturers label them as Servos and charge accordingly ;) Harmonic drives are great but they have one big disadvantage - the flexible spline inside wears out limiting their operating life somewhat compared to conventional reduction drives.
The Pegasis NYX-101 is similar in price and payload. It would help if you compared them with each other.
Pretty impressive wow thanks a lot for the review
Great video!! Thank you. Would it be possible to make a quick lesson on how to change the meridian settings?
The hand controller can modify it quickly. Changing Meridian E limit to 0, also explained in user manual. The new batch of mounts will use same meridian limits parameters with Cuiv’s😊
Thank you for a brilliant review!
Thank you for the great review.
This looks like an amazing mount. I was saving up for an AM3 to compliment my AM5... but now might save a bit longer for this instead!
Hahaha, well the AM3 should also be excellent - unless you have a large telescope in mind, I think the AM3 would work great at a lower price :)
Yeah but you sell this all so well. It’s your fault, really!! 😂
Fantastic review sir, nice to see real alternatives to ZWO, finally. Looks like your getting some clear sky’s, enjoy.
Thanks!!
Great review thank you!
Absolutely the quietest mount I have ever heard. Or not. Similar in some ways to my NYX-101. It has a 22KG payload as well. But i'm pretty sure they use stepper motors and not servo controlled. I like the mount. And depending on the wx conditions, with a good polar alignment and PHD2 calibration, I can get some pretty decent guiding. Less than 1 second and many times closer to 0.5 arc seconds. And that's at 1422mm using an OAG. I'm waiting for you to tell us how much. If it's really good at guiding, it might be worth selling my NYX-101. ;o)
Interesting. Good to see growing competition for these mounts. I wonder.. if they release another mount.. if it will be call WD-40 and be resistant to rain. That would be a very cool feature :)
Resistant to rain and very slippery :)
Well this has just gone straight into my shortlist for a second portable rig. Thanks so much for an excellent review.
Cheers!
Super test, merci Cuiv 👍✨✨✨
Merci !
Great video and review of this new mount. It’s nice to see the technology progressing so quickly from the Rainbow mount I first saw at NEAF in 2019 to this latest release by yet another new company. You made the point of the tripod being the weak link in these small strain wave mounts. Are there alternative tripods that are both lightweight, but give some added stability while still providing the portability that people will buy these mounts for?
I love to see such competition! And unfortunately no idea about the tripod, although Berlebach tripods keep getting recommended to me!
Great review as usual Cuiv. I too waive my geek flag proudly. Oh the mount is good too lol
Hahaha thanks!!
Looks like a nice mount, thanks for the review! Can't wait to snag one for half the price on the second market in 20 years 🤣
Hahaha sounds like a good strategy!
Hi Cuiv, while I don't dispute the engineering prowess of this mount, it looks pretty awesome, at that price it sadly will not be accompanying my EQ6-R any time soon. I am thinking about something like an AM3 though which load wise would handle any of the scopes I am likely to use in the near future.
Thanks for your support! And I absolutely agree - if the AM3 is good enough for your payloads then it makes sense to just go for that! I think this one is really for people needing to support more payload
No such thing as overkill... Over budget? Yes. Having recently retired and on a fixed income, I gotta be careful about even considering the am5 vs the eq6r pro for now... But, one can dream! 👍👍
Dreaming is good!
Thanks for the new product review. Mount is an essential part of Astro tech. It looks nice and has a higher price tag than AM5, which gives us more choice. It looks like a Chinese company from Shanghai, like ZWO or Skywatcher from Taiwan. These are severe competitors. That is good for our hobbies.
I love to see competition:-)
The PA bump on the AM5 that happens when you tighten the adjustment knobs down is probably my biggest complaint about the design. I bet it's really nice to not have to deal with that!
Yes indeed!
Hi Cuiv, I have owned an AM5 for a bit over one year, and when it works, it works great. On two (perhaps 3) occasions, the mount has gone crazy. Symptoms: ASI AirPlus looses contact with the AM5. Polar alignment fails: Plate solves, then "movers" xx degrees, but only moves a bit, then just sits. Looses connection to guide camera.Resetting, changing cables, re-trying all fail. The first time I decided it was due to 12V plug (cigarette lighter style). Second time, I had upgraded my battery which now offers two 12V 5.5x2.1 plugs (10 amps). Nothing I did (plug/unplug. change cables, change which plug was used, etc... worked. Another night lost (I'm a "traveler", so this is painful. Back home, in the comfort of my home, no problems. I did notice on my iPad a setting called "low data mode" enabled. I doubt this is the problem, but I have turned it off. The weak link (IMO) for the ZWO AM5/ASI Air is the quality of the connectors and supplied cables. I've upgraded all cables, and do think that has helped, but the most recent failure is fresh on my mind. I will give it another go, but might consider upgrading to this mount (or the WD-17) if it fails again. There are other things I could do, that might address the problem I currently power the AM5 directly from my battery 12V plug (5.5x2.1), and use the 12V out from the AM5 to the ASI Air. I could run separate cables to both devices, and that might address the problem. I am using a 14 gauge 12 volt wire, so there should not be a problem with this configuration, but "who knows"? I also would like to be able to tighten the Aze/Alt locks without changing the polar alignment. I find tightening the AZE locks the most likely to upset the PA, so this is a bit of a hassle. I've also found the key to good guiding to be good PA. In any course, I'd be interested in your comments. Thanks, John
Warpastron web site is back up and running
Good to know! It does seem to suffer from the traffic!
The era of traditional gears mounts is coming to an end. Harmonic and direct drive (e.g. Planewave) will come to dominate the premium and mid-level market. Great review.
Great review. If you need the weight capacity looks very good.
Agreed!
Cuiv, many thanks for another great video. I noticed in the video you mentioned something about Meridian flip issues. Could you please share a bit more feedback on that ?
Basically just settings - Meridian east should be set to 0, and West to something like 2-3 degrees (10-15 minutes). It's now done by default on the mounts that ship!
Great mount, but living in Europe, I favor the NYX101 from Pegasus which boasts the same weight capacity and same price. The only difference is the Customer support from PA which has an excellent reputation (Paris-Athens-Paris in less than one week, repair included)
Any chance you could review the UMi 17 or UMi Lite sometime? Seems like a pretty good competitor to this/the AM5/the AM3. I’m pretty happy with mine.
One is already on the way to him - Been enjoying using my Umi lite so far too!
I wanted to, but at the time UMi wanted me to buy the mount upfront, and weren't able to provide a review sample... Maybe the situation is different now
Definitely an excellent mount at a very reasonable price.
The mount itself is excellent, the price is good although I do wish it were closer to the AM5 price...
Great channel
Thank you!
Amazing results! Wonder how it does with heavier payload and counterweights!❤🎉
I don't have the scope to test that yet, but I'm hoping to get a large frac to review soon :)
Their website seems down. Anyway would love to have confirmation it really works with ASIAIR … not just yes onstep is supported, does it work over USB for example.
website KO
I will test it! Bummer on the website, I hope they get it fixed...
Hi Cuiv!
Based on your feeling, do you think this mount can handle properly a 250/1200mm Newton for astrophotography?
I'm considering this to replace my Ioptron CEM70, but I never tried an Harmonic before... I'm a little scared of the leap in the dark...
Paired with a very good tripod or pier, I think it would work well, although you may want to get the counterweight bar just in case (I think you'd be just below the 20kg capacity without CW)
The only thing i don't like is the altitude adjustment.... I think with such a beautiful mount that they would spend a little more time on this crucial adjuster.
This is really interesting and a great review. Where can I get one? The websites are not working and I cannot find it at any of the usual vendors in the US.
The website seems to be back just now
It seems the most reliable way is the Aliexpress website for now!
Their website is down... not a good sign... but also a good thing because otherwise I might have had ended buying one... :D
I have never heard of this brand and no links are working. Not a good sign for future service or contact about their product....
Bummer on the website, I hope they get it fixed... Not a good look for sure :/ and thanks for your support!
It's recovered and upgraded now. Due to increasing traffic triggered flow protection, Thanks for your visit - WarpAstron@@robertvanvugt3371
Nice guiding 👏👏🔭🌌
My EQ6R is sooooooo heavy its ridiculous, its a love hate relationship. Id love this mount
I know the feeling about the EQ6R! It's great as long as you don't need to touch it or move it :D
@@CuivTheLazyGeekI have to haul mine in and out the house every night! Lol
Very impressive indeed Cuiv. The only minor drawback I see with this mount is the use of a USB-C connector which is not very robust and may disconnect. By the way, you should really invest in a sturdier tripod, it’s the weak point in your system. I use a configuration pretty similar to yours (a 150 mm newtonian) and switching from the TC-40 to a Berlebach tripod really improved my guiding. And they are not very expansive, so it is a very worth while investment.
Thanks Damien! Yeah I need to get a better tripod for sure... I need to find one that is available in Japan, always difficult!
I'm not so worried about USB-C anymore, although only time will tell!
Which Berlebach tripod model are you using? Thanks.
@@swagonman the Uni 8 astro. You can buy it with an AM5 compatible top plate. I used it recently with a small refractor (the red cat 61) during a 65 km/h wind episode and was able to acquire 1 minute long exposures practically without losing a frame, which is pretty amazing IMHO.
Cuiv, i feel like we're seeing the beginning of an "arms race" in terms of mount technology. These strain wave mounts are very nice. Do you think we'll start to see companies such as Celestron either come out with their own, or drop prices on their mounts to compete?
Yessss! It's great to see such an arms race, and I hope to see (inflation-adjusted) prices drop!!
hi Cuiv, like your videos a lot!
I have a question : as I am doing astrophotography on my balcony, Can you prevent flipping at all with This Mount? I know these mounts are creating a lot of force …. but a Flip on the Balcony is difficult, sometimes cause the Space is Limited on Mine. Appreciate Your answer ,
Best regards from Germany, Claus
Hi Cuiv. Thanks for this very interesting video (as always !). Could you tell us the weight on the mount during your tests? And about those mounts w/o counterweight: can you evaluate the need to still use a counterweight from a certain optic size (I use a 10-inch Ritchey-Chrétien), in order to avoid tilting of the mount?
It's probably around 10kg only... I wish I had heavier scopes available to test it with...
Looks like a very well-made mount, Cuiv! Can it be use in Alt-Az mode? I noticed a place for a counterweight bar. What is the max payload with a counterweight? Thanks for reviewing this! Looks very nice.
Yes it can be used in alt az mode! And with CW it seems the max capacity is 30kg
Greetings. Did you experience gravity pull when power is off and if so, how did you mitigate it? I have the RST-300 and struggle with gravity pull of the DEC as I park E-W home position. RA is locked but not DEC when pier is off. Great videos!
I want one of those because it guides very well and is light enough for me to setup each time at my dark site. Unfortunately a little too pricey at the moment and I would have to buy a suitable tripod in addition.
If you don't need the payload they do have a cheaper one, the WD-17S. But I haven't tested it!
@@CuivTheLazyGeek No, I don't need the payload but all three mounts I have owned have all been loaded up to and beyond their recommended maximum so it would be nice to own a mount that can cope with my equipment with ease. I'll have a look at the smaller mount, thanks.
Interesting mount. By the way, did you test the Pegasus Astro Nyx, which is at this category?
Unfortunately no! Maybe in the future...
Looks like a great mount!! AND there is a smaller and more affordable version: WD-17S priced at 2100$
Nice review! Looks like nyx-101.
It does, although I haven't tested it...
Great video
HI Cuiv, do you still love this mount? From your usage, do you have any subsequent comments or updates in regard to the mount further to your review?
Wow, this mount is really impressive, thank you for this review!
It's a bit unfortunate though, because it has only been 3 months since I bit the bullet and went for a belt-driven Avalon Linear in favor of harmonic drive options. And now I'm really starting to have second thoughts about it. At just under 15kg of payload, although with a considerably long 5" refractor - my Linear only delivers under winds of at most 2-3 m/s. At a comparable price (cheaper?!), WD-20 has larger capacity, is lighter and I'm guessing thanks to its rigidity will be useful under stronger winds 🤔
Still the Linear is an excellent mount!
Very promising, I have an Avalon Linear since some time (currently no need to change) but if I ever consider to change that WD-20 would really be a very good candidate.
I was drooling over Avalon mounts for such a long time, they also look amazing!
@Cuiv, The Lazy Geek I'm looking forward to the WD-17 (without the "S"). Very good Mount you've testet here. It will be interesting if you made a Video for the GPS funktion within NINA and this Mount.
Love the video! I'd love to see you testing it's smaller brother WD-17S which is much cheaper.
Hi all
Thks Cuiv for this information!
To say the least, this video has sparked heated debate on forums such as Cloudy Nights...
It's had the merit of awakening a field that's been humming along with relatively similar products... technically speaking.
The day when a manufacturer can sell them for less than $2,000/€, he'll make a killing!
At this price it will remain a dream for me...
Can't wait to find out more, especially when the site can cope with the influx of connections, as the link is still down this morning..
A comparision between this mount and an PA NYX-101 would be interesting as their marketing numbers are almost identical.
Great review ,Looking for a possible replacement of my Vixen SXD2 replacement harmonic drives are more portable . Have you tried the Pegasus Astro NYX-101 also 20kg no counterweights not sure what motors are used stepper or synchronous?
No i haven't tried it... :-( but keep the SXD2, I'll always regret selling mine!
Very nice review! I may have missed this but I guess there are locks so that if there’s a power loss, there is no scope flop (haven’t finished watching the whole video yet).
My SS-One Traveler HD mount is also completely silent (as well as my DDM60).
You are correct, there is a lock in RA (but not DEC!) - do those mounts also use servos/direct drive? I wonder what makes these mounts so silent!
The SS-One uses 2x Oriental Stepper Motor PKP262FD15AW-H100 driving the RA/Dec directly. So it was a surprise to me when I heard the AM5 cos I expected that to be silent too until someone did a teardown that I realised that there were still gears & belt drives in it. That explained the noise in the AM5 to me.
@cuivthelazygeek: in the Test Results section (20:30 ish) you say a few times that you're using the "Calibration Assistant" in PHD2, but you're not, that's the Guiding Assistant. Calibration Assistant is a thing in PHD2 too so you might want to add some overlay text to clarify if possible.
Thanks! Unfortunately UA-cam doesn't allow me to do such corrections post-fact (except as a subtitle that is disabled by default...)....
@@CuivTheLazyGeekahh, no worries! People will prob figure it out. Thanks for all the hard work on these videos!
Damn...that's crazy quiet
It is good to see these new mounts coming along, but if you get great images with your heq5 or eq6r then that is all that matters unless you are a tech geek
Absolutely! If it ain't broke, don't fix it!
Very nice mount indeed with very impressive capabilities but what worry me is the support service, when I see that it is almost impossible to connect to their website...does Nina and the other software easily recognize this mount ? what about drivers , upgrades etc. Well in Europe this brand is quite unknown with no vendor. I think it is urgent to wait a little for us😁
This mount is really competitive and I really hope it will be represented soon here !
Keep doing this kind of review it is really usefull !!! thank's
Yeah the website being down is not a good look, I hope they fix it soon...
It's recovered now. Due to increasing traffic triggered flow protection. Some Europe local reseller will be available soon. -WarpAstron
Damned Cuiv I was about to place an order for the Ioptron HEA43 which has exactly the same weight and payload in the same range of price but now I think I'm going to wait a litle to see what append with this beauty in the coming months😁
Me too!!! I ended up with the WD-20 though. I will always wonder how I would have liked the HAE43. The Cuiv video did it.