Much more could be said about the New Catechism, including, as even Pope John Paul II admitted, the fact that its publication was essentially an attempt to further propagate the teachings of the Second Vatican Council: “[Along with the 1983 Code of Canon Law,] The Catechism was also indispensable, in order that all the richness of the teaching of the Church following the Second Vatican Council could be preserved in a new synthesis and be given a new direction." (Crossing the Threshold of Hope, p. 164) It comes as no surprise, then, that there are more than 800 citations from the Council in this catechism -- roughly one in every third paragraph! The problems with the New Catechism are not restricted to the novelties explicitly set forth in the documents of Vatican II, but one can get a good idea of how dangerous this catechism is by considering just those topics: 1) An infatuation with the dignity of man (§§225; 369; 1700; 1929...), - such that we may hope for the salvation of all the baptized (§§1682ff), - even non-Catholics (§818), - or those who commit suicide (§2283), - and of all the unbaptized, whether adults (§847), - or infants (§1261); 2) Purporting this human dignity to be the basis of all rights (§§1738; 1930; 1935) - including that of religious liberty (§§2106ff), - and the motive of all morality (§1706; 1881; 2354; 2402; 2407, etc.); 3) A commitment to ecumenism (§820f; 1399; 1401) - because all religions are instruments of salvation (§§819; 838-843; 2104); 4) A commitment to collegiality (§§879-885); and 5) An over-emphasis on the priesthood of the faithful (§§873; 1547; 1140ff, etc.). For a thorough discussion of the problems with the New Catechism, see the attached four-part article by Fr. Michel Simoulin. sspx.org/en/new-catechism-catholic
TheFatimaCenter thank you for your reply. I have a question. So with the salvation part of the catechism where it mentions those who commit suicide - i mean can one receive salvation if they commit suicide and are baptised Christians? Mary.
Yes, in fact Padre Pio is said to have assured a woman of her husband's salvation in spite of the fact that he had committed suicide (by jumping from a bridge). It seems in that particular case that the man was given the grace of perfect contrition for his sins, including that act, during the time that he fell to his death. The Church's traditional practice of omitting public prayers for the soul of a suicide victim is not in any way to imply that such persons are definitely lost. It would simply seem incongruous to assume the salvation of one who died apparently in the act of a mortal sin. But God's mercy can reach souls at any point before the actual moment of death, and both of these things (the action of grace, and the final separation of the soul from the body) are hidden from us. God bless you.
When I reverted to Catholicism in 2014 I discovered that new catechism and read it cover to cover. It it is the most beautiful book I have ever read outside of Sacred Scripture! I will be forever beholden to those who burdened themselves with its writing. I find it gives me great clarity in my faith. After doing two years of street ministry I think the Catholics that protest against the new catechism are people who are fearful in general,, who don't trust the Holy Spirit's leading, and who therefore who don't want to leave their holy huddles and love their neighbor, no matter who that neighbor is. The catechism does not say that loving someone means that you have to agree with them. If you have questions about the catechism ask me.
Thank you for your comment. We would point out, however, that the Catechism of the Catholic Church is not entirely to be trusted. As has often been pointed out, and as even Pope John Paul II admitted, the publication of the New Catechism was essentially an attempt to further propagate the teachings of the Second Vatican Council: “[Along with the 1983 Code of Canon Law,] The Catechism was also indispensable, in order that all the richness of the teaching of the Church following the Second Vatican Council could be preserved in a new synthesis and be given a new direction." (Crossing the Threshold of Hope, p. 164) It comes as no surprise, then, that there are more than 800 citations from the Council in this catechism -- roughly one in every third paragraph! The problems with the New Catechism are not restricted to the novelties explicitly set forth in the documents of Vatican II, but one can get a good idea of how dangerous this catechism is by considering just those topics: 1) An infatuation with the dignity of man (§§225; 369; 1700; 1929...), - such that we may hope for the salvation of all the baptized (§§1682ff), - even non-Catholics (§818), - or those who commit suicide (§2283), - and of all the unbaptized, whether adults (§847), - or infants (§1261); 2) Purporting this human dignity to be the basis of all rights (§§1738; 1930; 1935) - including that of religious liberty (§§2106ff), - and the motive of all morality (§1706; 1881; 2354; 2402; 2407, etc.); 3) A commitment to ecumenism (§820f; 1399; 1401) - because all religions are instruments of salvation (§§819; 838-843; 2104); 4) A commitment to collegiality (§§879-885); and 5) An over-emphasis on the priesthood of the faithful (§§873; 1547; 1140ff, etc.). For a thorough discussion of the problems with the New Catechism, see the attached four-part article by Fr. Michel Simoulin. sspx.org/en/new-catechism-catholic On the other hand, a wonderful exposition of the Catholic Faith which can be recommended without reservation is "The Sincere Christian" by Bishop George Hay of Scotland, along with its sequels "The Devout Christian" and "The Pious Christian," first published in the 1780s. Bishop Hay’s works are available to read at no cost online at various sites. The complete set can be accessed here: archive.org/search.php?query=Hay%2C%20George%2C%201729-1811 We would especially recommend the first appendix in The Sincere Christian, titled “An Inquiry, Whether Salvation can be had without True Faith, and out of the Communion of the Church of Christ,” in which Bishop Hay gives a powerful remedy to the scandalous indifferentism of our day. God bless you.
"I don't use the new Catechism because, quite frankly, I don't trust it." This is my reason as well. What was true at the Council of Trent, and what was True during the reign of Pope Saint Pius X, is true now.
There is good in everything! ... That being said, new doesn't mean right... The Catechism of the Council of Trent has been my best source of Catholic Faith...and saving My Soul.
I got me a Baltimore catechism, hoping to read something more traditional. But right after a few pages, it said that the existence of extraterrestial beings is highly plausible and that the Church doesn't deny it, nor Sacred Scripture! I threw the book in the trash.
Some editions are better than others, but something truly insidious which is common to all editions (including the original 1891 edition) is their treatment of the dogma of Faith that outside of the Church there is no salvation -- which the Baltimore Catechism renders: "He who knows the Church to be the true Church and remains out of it cannot be saved," purporting that the "invincibly ignorant" can be saved without true faith and out of the Communion of the Catholic Church.
@@barrysaunders832 That is all true. There is a great YT channel called What Catholics Believe: I have learned so much from it since I understood the Catholic Church is now in eclipse and that the vatican 2 sect should be avoided by all faithful traditional catholics.
@@sweetcaroline2060 This priest wouldn't be able to keep up theologically with Benedict, or JP2. He needs to shut his pie hole and go back to school (if he was still alive).
The heartrending persecutions of the Church which God is permitting in our time have only one remedy -- the Consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary by the Pope and all the Catholic bishops of the world, as requested by Our Lady of Fatima. By means of this act of worldwide prayer and reparation to Her Immaculate Heart, Our Lady will convert Russia and bring an end to the many punishments we now endure for the sins of the world. In the meantime Our Lady urges us to sacrifice ourselves for this intention and pray, asking us to apply ourselves especially to praying the full 15 decade Rosary daily, to wearing Her Brown Scapular, and to making fervent acts of reparation on the First Saturdays of each month (namely Confession, Communion, Rosary, and meditation). God bless you. archive.fatima.org/essentials/requests/
Wrong. About the Catechism St. JPII, said in in Fidei Depositum "The Catechism of the Catholic Church, which I approved June 25th last and the publication of which I today order by virtue of my Apostolic Authority, is a statement of the Church's faith and of catholic doctrine, attested to or illumined by Sacred Scripture, the Apostolic Tradition, and the Church's Magisterium. I declare it to be a sure norm for teaching the faith and thus a valid and legitimate instrument for ecclesial communion." John Paul II also stated that the Catechism "is given as a sure and authentic reference text for teaching Catholic doctrine." Regarding Ephesians 4:5 see CCC 172 "Through the centuries, in so many languages, cultures, peoples and nations, the Church has constantly confessed this one faith, received from the one Lord, transmitted by one Baptism, and grounded in the conviction that all people have only one God and Father.58" Ephesians 4:5
You do realize that in this video, they talking about the 1st edition, which was recalled and reedited, because it had some errors. It's not the updated 2nd Edition which most Catholics have today.
Listening to these two men and reading the comments below I now truly understand why I now declare myself an atheist. If you truly believe that your God's work on earth must be your own then stop trying to figure out how many angels there are on a head of a pin, get off your collective asses and be about solving the problems of the poor and afflicted of the world.
I bought this catechism, and it's got the hands of bureaucratic thinking (modernism) all over it. So much fluff to to hide their heresies in ambiguity. While the council of trent is a dense catechism which covers lots of topics, it makes the faith clear and provides answers. The new catechism is just tons if words, you fall asleep reading it.
Very true, the Catechism of the Catholic Church cannot be trusted. As even Pope John Paul II admitted, the publication of the New Catechism was essentially an attempt to further propagate the teachings of the Second Vatican Council, so it is no surprise that there are more than 800 citations from the Council in this catechism -- roughly one in every third paragraph! For a thorough discussion of the problems with the New Catechism, see the attached four-part article by Fr. Michel Simoulin. sspx.org/en/new-catechism-catholic
This is a SSPX organization and, hence, is here to attempt to tear down Christ's one true Church. And, since Christ is the head of the Church and we are its body, one can only conclude that the SSPX and the Fatima Center are here to tear down Christ Himself. To that I say, "May God have mercy on your soul."
A trustworthy compendium of the Church’s teachings can be found in the Penny Catechism www.olvrc.com/reference/documents/Penny.Catechism.pdf The very best catechism we can recommend is "The Sincere Christian," by Bishop George Hay. A free internet file archives this important work in two volumes here (with a priceless inquiry about the dogma that there is no salvation outside of the Church beginning on page 259 of the second volume): archive.org/details/worksofrightrevb00strauoft archive.org/details/worksofbishophay02hayuoft
This book called mohamadans brothers in the faith. Islam denies the deity of Christ, it denies the Trinity. St. Paul says if anyone comes preaching another Gospel, let him be anathema. Based on that I cannot accept the CCC . It’s got the enemy as a friend. Al lah is the devil , not Yahweh. Mohamadans don’t worship the God of Jesus. Thus I will never follow this.
I’m sorry but I had to unsubscribe. This sound like a new wave of protestantism. Luther too, declared to know better than the pope and magisterium of the church. Let us all pray that our Lord guide His Church in the right direction including these gentlemen who I believe are sincere but may be promoting rebellion against Christ’s Church while intending to protect it. God help us! Lord have mercy!
Please allow Father Gruner the space to put forward a coherent case for his position before you discount what he has to say. His book can be read at no cost online. God bless you. www.crucialtruths.com/read.html
What the bonkers are you talking about?? He just reiterated the truth! Quite frankly, the entire church practise of this day is the practise of a new age where it accepts modernism and heretical teachings. I see this everyday! DOnot know what the bonkers you are speaking about - if the church is teaching and promoting error, we have the right to stand up and defend.
"I wish someone would give me some dialogue." Father Gruner
This had me 😂😂😂. May he be with our Lord Jesus Christ. You're missed terribly father.
Fr Gruner, you are fantastic. You have just reiterated what I have been thinking. May God rest your soul.
Much more could be said about the New Catechism, including, as even Pope John Paul II admitted, the fact that its publication was essentially an attempt to further propagate the teachings of the Second Vatican Council: “[Along with the 1983 Code of Canon Law,] The Catechism was also indispensable, in order that all the richness of the teaching of the Church following the Second Vatican Council could be preserved in a new synthesis and be given a new direction." (Crossing the Threshold of Hope, p. 164)
It comes as no surprise, then, that there are more than 800 citations from the Council in this catechism -- roughly one in every third paragraph!
The problems with the New Catechism are not restricted to the novelties explicitly set forth in the documents of Vatican II, but one can get a good idea of how dangerous this catechism is by considering just those topics:
1) An infatuation with the dignity of man (§§225; 369; 1700; 1929...),
- such that we may hope for the salvation of all the baptized (§§1682ff),
- even non-Catholics (§818),
- or those who commit suicide (§2283),
- and of all the unbaptized, whether adults (§847),
- or infants (§1261);
2) Purporting this human dignity to be the basis of all rights (§§1738; 1930; 1935)
- including that of religious liberty (§§2106ff),
- and the motive of all morality (§1706; 1881; 2354; 2402; 2407, etc.);
3) A commitment to ecumenism (§820f; 1399; 1401)
- because all religions are instruments of salvation (§§819; 838-843; 2104);
4) A commitment to collegiality (§§879-885); and
5) An over-emphasis on the priesthood of the faithful (§§873; 1547; 1140ff, etc.).
For a thorough discussion of the problems with the New Catechism, see the attached four-part article by Fr. Michel Simoulin.
sspx.org/en/new-catechism-catholic
TheFatimaCenter thank you for your reply. I have a question. So with the salvation part of the catechism where it mentions those who commit suicide - i mean can one receive salvation if they commit suicide and are baptised Christians?
Mary.
Yes, in fact Padre Pio is said to have assured a woman of her husband's salvation in spite of the fact that he had committed suicide (by jumping from a bridge). It seems in that particular case that the man was given the grace of perfect contrition for his sins, including that act, during the time that he fell to his death.
The Church's traditional practice of omitting public prayers for the soul of a suicide victim is not in any way to imply that such persons are definitely lost. It would simply seem incongruous to assume the salvation of one who died apparently in the act of a mortal sin. But God's mercy can reach souls at any point before the actual moment of death, and both of these things (the action of grace, and the final separation of the soul from the body) are hidden from us. God bless you.
When I reverted to Catholicism in 2014 I discovered that new catechism and read it cover to cover. It it is the most beautiful book I have ever read outside of Sacred Scripture! I will be forever beholden to those who burdened themselves with its writing. I find it gives me great clarity in my faith. After doing two years of street ministry I think the Catholics that protest against the new catechism are people who are fearful in general,, who don't trust the Holy Spirit's leading, and who therefore who don't want to leave their holy huddles and love their neighbor, no matter who that neighbor is. The catechism does not say that loving someone means that you have to agree with them. If you have questions about the catechism ask me.
Thank you for your comment. We would point out, however, that the Catechism of the Catholic Church is not entirely to be trusted.
As has often been pointed out, and as even Pope John Paul II admitted, the publication of the New Catechism was essentially an attempt to further propagate the teachings of the Second Vatican Council: “[Along with the 1983 Code of Canon Law,] The Catechism was also indispensable, in order that all the richness of the teaching of the Church following the Second Vatican Council could be preserved in a new synthesis and be given a new direction." (Crossing the Threshold of Hope, p. 164)
It comes as no surprise, then, that there are more than 800 citations from the Council in this catechism -- roughly one in every third paragraph!
The problems with the New Catechism are not restricted to the novelties explicitly set forth in the documents of Vatican II, but one can get a good idea of how dangerous this catechism is by considering just those topics:
1) An infatuation with the dignity of man (§§225; 369; 1700; 1929...),
- such that we may hope for the salvation of all the baptized (§§1682ff),
- even non-Catholics (§818),
- or those who commit suicide (§2283),
- and of all the unbaptized, whether adults (§847),
- or infants (§1261);
2) Purporting this human dignity to be the basis of all rights (§§1738; 1930; 1935)
- including that of religious liberty (§§2106ff),
- and the motive of all morality (§1706; 1881; 2354; 2402; 2407, etc.);
3) A commitment to ecumenism (§820f; 1399; 1401)
- because all religions are instruments of salvation (§§819; 838-843; 2104);
4) A commitment to collegiality (§§879-885); and
5) An over-emphasis on the priesthood of the faithful (§§873; 1547; 1140ff, etc.).
For a thorough discussion of the problems with the New Catechism, see the attached four-part article by Fr. Michel Simoulin. sspx.org/en/new-catechism-catholic
On the other hand, a wonderful exposition of the Catholic Faith which can be recommended without reservation is "The Sincere Christian" by Bishop George Hay of Scotland, along with its sequels "The Devout Christian" and "The Pious Christian," first published in the 1780s.
Bishop Hay’s works are available to read at no cost online at various sites. The complete set can be accessed here: archive.org/search.php?query=Hay%2C%20George%2C%201729-1811
We would especially recommend the first appendix in The Sincere Christian, titled “An Inquiry, Whether Salvation can be had without True Faith, and out of the Communion of the Church of Christ,” in which Bishop Hay gives a powerful remedy to the scandalous indifferentism of our day. God bless you.
I had a feeling something was wrong when I was handed a copy of this catechism several decades ago. Thanks for the clarification!
RIP Fr Gruner, RIP John V
Thanks for explaining why we should avoid this New Catechism.
"I don't use the new Catechism because, quite frankly, I don't trust it." This is my reason as well. What was true at the Council of Trent, and what was True during the reign of Pope Saint Pius X, is true now.
Thank you Father
There is good in everything! ... That being said, new doesn't mean right...
The Catechism of the Council of Trent has been my best source of Catholic Faith...and saving My Soul.
Amen.
Surely our Lady was right to tell sr.Lusia not to reveal the 3rd secret until 1960 when everyone would see it what else do we want ,😢😢
I got me a Baltimore catechism, hoping to read something more traditional. But right after a few pages, it said that the existence of extraterrestial beings is highly plausible and that the Church doesn't deny it, nor Sacred Scripture! I threw the book in the trash.
Do you recall the edition or the author? (The original edition did not include that discussion.)
It was catechism number 2, revised in 1991 by one Bennet Kelley (Catholic Book Publishing Corp.)
Some editions are better than others, but something truly insidious which is common to all editions (including the original 1891 edition) is their treatment of the dogma of Faith that outside of the Church there is no salvation -- which the Baltimore Catechism renders: "He who knows the Church to be the true Church and remains out of it cannot be saved," purporting that the "invincibly ignorant" can be saved without true faith and out of the Communion of the Catholic Church.
@@barrysaunders832 That is all true. There is a great YT channel called What Catholics Believe: I have learned so much from it since I understood the Catholic Church is now in eclipse and that the vatican 2 sect should be avoided by all faithful traditional catholics.
Excellent video!
The Spiritual Works of Mercy are also noticeably absent. The new church doesn't want to admonish anybody's sins.
I would have loved to see this priest sit down with 20 minutes with Pope Benedict.
Or how about Pope Francis? I'd like to see that. YOU GO, FATHER GRUNER! RIP.
@@sweetcaroline2060 This priest wouldn't be able to keep up theologically with Benedict, or JP2. He needs to shut his pie hole and go back to school (if he was still alive).
How do get our Church to get rid of Second Vatican Council? How do we go back to the Traditional True Catholic teaching? Laity can write I assume....
The heartrending persecutions of the Church which God is permitting in our time have only one remedy -- the Consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary by the Pope and all the Catholic bishops of the world, as requested by Our Lady of Fatima. By means of this act of worldwide prayer and reparation to Her Immaculate Heart, Our Lady will convert Russia and bring an end to the many punishments we now endure for the sins of the world. In the meantime Our Lady urges us to sacrifice ourselves for this intention and pray, asking us to apply ourselves especially to praying the full 15 decade Rosary daily, to wearing Her Brown Scapular, and to making fervent acts of reparation on the First Saturdays of each month (namely Confession, Communion, Rosary, and meditation). God bless you. archive.fatima.org/essentials/requests/
"...not to be recommended...?" How about it must be condemned?
There is also a particular Irish version of the New CCC.
I stick to the Catechism of the Council of Trent...
Wrong.
About the Catechism St. JPII, said in in Fidei Depositum "The Catechism of the Catholic Church, which I approved June 25th last and the publication of which I today order by virtue of my Apostolic Authority, is a statement of the Church's faith and of catholic doctrine, attested to or illumined by Sacred Scripture, the Apostolic Tradition, and the Church's Magisterium. I declare it to be a sure norm for teaching the faith and thus a valid and legitimate instrument for ecclesial communion." John Paul II also stated that the Catechism "is given as a sure and authentic reference text for teaching Catholic doctrine."
Regarding Ephesians 4:5 see CCC 172 "Through the centuries, in so many languages, cultures, peoples and nations, the Church has constantly confessed this one faith, received from the one Lord, transmitted by one Baptism, and grounded in the conviction that all people have only one God and Father.58" Ephesians 4:5
Resource777 %uh
You do realize that in this video, they talking about the 1st edition, which was recalled and reedited, because it had some errors. It's not the updated 2nd Edition which most Catholics have today.
@@ChristianSaintSavior Even the updated edition has heresy...
Listening to these two men and reading the comments below I now truly understand why I now declare myself an atheist. If you truly believe that your God's work on earth must be your own then stop trying to figure out how many angels there are on a head of a pin, get off your collective asses and be about solving the problems of the poor and afflicted of the world.
I bought this catechism, and it's got the hands of bureaucratic thinking (modernism) all over it. So much fluff to to hide their heresies in ambiguity.
While the council of trent is a dense catechism which covers lots of topics, it makes the faith clear and provides answers. The new catechism is just tons if words, you fall asleep reading it.
Very true, the Catechism of the Catholic Church cannot be trusted. As even Pope John Paul II admitted, the publication of the New Catechism was essentially an attempt to further propagate the teachings of the Second Vatican Council, so it is no surprise that there are more than 800 citations from the Council in this catechism -- roughly one in every third paragraph! For a thorough discussion of the problems with the New Catechism, see the attached four-part article by Fr. Michel Simoulin. sspx.org/en/new-catechism-catholic
This is a SSPX organization and, hence, is here to attempt to tear down Christ's one true Church. And, since Christ is the head of the Church and we are its body, one can only conclude that the SSPX and the Fatima Center are here to tear down Christ Himself. To that I say, "May God have mercy on your soul."
What catechism should I buy then?
A trustworthy compendium of the Church’s teachings can be found in the Penny Catechism
www.olvrc.com/reference/documents/Penny.Catechism.pdf
The very best catechism we can recommend is "The Sincere Christian," by Bishop George Hay. A free internet file archives this important work in two volumes here (with a priceless inquiry about the dogma that there is no salvation outside of the Church beginning on page 259 of the second volume):
archive.org/details/worksofrightrevb00strauoft
archive.org/details/worksofbishophay02hayuoft
This book called mohamadans brothers in the faith. Islam denies the deity of Christ, it denies the Trinity. St. Paul says if anyone comes preaching another Gospel, let him be anathema. Based on that I cannot accept the CCC . It’s got the enemy as a friend. Al lah is the devil , not Yahweh. Mohamadans don’t worship the God of Jesus. Thus I will never follow this.
What is "prayer in common"?
***** thanks
I see here , the new Protestant movement.
Except this is the exact opposite. The protestants took over at Vatican II. Anything goes in modernist Catholicism.
The priest told you not to use that first edition because it was withdrawn nevertheless you use it, that is sneaky and intellectually dishonest Sr.
Daniel Pan According to who?
Even the second edition preaches heresy.
I’m sorry but I had to unsubscribe. This sound like a new wave of protestantism. Luther too, declared to know better than the pope and magisterium of the church. Let us all pray that our Lord guide His Church in the right direction including these gentlemen who I believe are sincere but may be promoting rebellion against Christ’s Church while intending to protect it. God help us! Lord have mercy!
Please allow Father Gruner the space to put forward a coherent case for his position before you discount what he has to say. His book can be read at no cost online. God bless you. www.crucialtruths.com/read.html
Vatican 2, the new mass is infected with Protestantism.
What the bonkers are you talking about?? He just reiterated the truth! Quite frankly, the entire church practise of this day is the practise of a new age where it accepts modernism and heretical teachings. I see this everyday! DOnot know what the bonkers you are speaking about - if the church is teaching and promoting error, we have the right to stand up and defend.