Hallucinations, The Dip Effect, and Pacing
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- Опубліковано 16 лип 2024
- What gives a game “good pacing”? How do you make moments in a game “memorable”? When is less information, actually more? These questions are all something that video game developers should be asking, and I would recommend looking to the psychology of primacy and recency for the answers. The human mind has a natural desire to process the stimulation in front of it, and in this episode of Psych of Play, I’ll take a swing at explaining how you can play with levels of color and sound to make your video game memorable.
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Game Sources:
The Legend of Zelda: Majoras Mask (2000) - Nintendo
The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess (2006) - Nintendo
Celese (2017) - Matt Makes Games
Mario Kart 8 Deluxe (2017) - Nintendo
Shadow of the Colossus (2005) - Team Ico
Shovel Knight (2000) - Yacht Club Games
Uncharted 2 (2009) - Naughty Dog
The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild (2017) - Nintendo
Journey (2012) - That Game Company
Limbo (2010) - PlayDead
Skyrim (2011) - Bethesda
Kingdom Hearts 2 (2005) - Square Enix
Pokemon Gold (1999) - Game Freak
Vanquish (2010) - Platinum Games
Inside (2016) - PlayDead
Megaman X (1993) - Capcom
Dead Space 3 (2013) - Visceral Games
Music Sources:
The Glow of the Dark Mountains- Chris Zabriskie
Cylinder 2- Chris Zabriskie
Air Hockey Saloon - Chris Zabriskie
We Always Thought the Future Would be Kind of Fun- Chris Zabriskie
I am a Man who will Fight for your Honor - Chris Zabriskie
Titan Souls: Forest Songs - David Fenn
Research Sources:
Serial Position effect experiment - VCE Psychology - Andrew Scott
www.bbc.co.uk/sn/tvradio/progr...
• The Volunteers Begin t...
• 48 hours of total isol...
• How to Keep Players En...
Other Sources:
Smash Bros Switch Reveal Trailer
Passengers Trailer
Fast Five Trailer
Welcome to Daryl Talks Games
Hi! I’m Daryl, and on this channel I explore the intersection between video games, psychology, and real life.
I’ve talked about how Pokemon and the Generation Effect can make you a better student. I’ve made a video on why game developers really should understand functional fixedness. And I’ve interviewed some of the best speedrunners on Earth to find out how exactly they make setting world records look so easy.
Primacy and Recency, subconscious associations, classical conditioning, divergent thinking, amnesia (the disorder not the game), if its psychological concept that relates to games, I’ve probably talked about it before or will in the future. But to be clear, psychology isn’t all I talk about. Every now and then I’ll dabble in a little bit of game design and sometimes I’ll just talk about life and how games really can make it better... and for some people are the best way to relate to the world around us.
So if all that sounds like a good time to you, subscribe to my channel, watch my videos, and if you feel so inclined, show a friend! If you take a look at my videos, I truly hope that you learn something or are entertained and that your day is better after watching!
*All images, graphics, and fonts created or found with postermywall.com, Pexels.com, Videvo.net, and Lightworks v14 editing software.*
#PsychofPlay - Ігри
Great video as always, it reminded of a concept of Ma(間) - which can be roughly translated as a gap :O
Thank you for sharing that! I just looked into it and I think this explanation of it says it best. "Ma(間) is empty, but also is not empty"
That's something Fumito Ueda mentioned in his Shadow of the Colossus interviews.
That's the kanji for between
That’s exactly what I thought of! Hayao Miyazaki rhythmically clapping his hands, and explaining that the space between the claps serves a purpose too!
A void with extrinsic meaning.
3:04 "There is no music. The only sound you hear are Link's footsteps... The scene is quiet."
In the background: "Ha! Huah! Hah! Huah! Huh! Huah!"
No one commented on this?
*w h e e z e*
As much as I love Ocarina of Time and Majora’s Mask, I’m glad they dropped the rolling mechanic from later 3D Zelda’s.
Having to roll to get around faster was always so emersion breaking.
@@vannsylten6765 I never used to roll. Too noisy and distracting
I don’t know how you could use a clip full of distracting visual and audio, to explain calmness
3:10 "The scene is q--"
"HYAH! HUH-- HAH! HYAH! HUH!"
that's a given for every zelda game
that zelda is quiet a boy
LMTO
Letting the player's thoughts breathe every once in a while is certainly a good idea. To take a breath...it can be pretty wild.
...I see what you did there xD
Surprised that game wasnt mentioned in this video
Especially when you've been lying around in a coffin all year.
This video makes it much more clear what that elusive word "pacing" actually means.
That was a lot of my motivation for making this, I had a feeling that there was more to it than just variety. Thanks for watching!
Yes! I now know what the fuck pacing is.
this is also an important concept in novels, having low points between the high points so that the reader can breathe and process the story
this is an old comment but I 1000% agree ! I have a memory of a book I was reading, where the characters ran from one danger directly into the next without a moment to breathe. and even as a kid that craved excitement something always felt off and overwhelming about it but I couldnt really put my finger on it. until like, just now lol
I managed to remember the first four by imagining a panda playing sports and a train made out of wood.
And then the others as a trucker frog filling out papers with a lamp and a digital clock
@@joellebuntschu9326 omg i got sport panda wood train paper digit frog lamppost truck force hammer onion by imagining a panda playing sports on a train made of wood, then some paper blows by with numbers on it. In the background there's a frog sitting on a lamp, then suddenly a truck drivers by with great force. And then a hammer falls on an onion. I missed happiness and sharing though cuz i didn't really integrate them into the story very well
@@deetvleet you guys are insane
@@abirneji :D
I pictured a sports panda with a wood baseball bat riding a train in a picture book made of paper, page digit four, then a frog shows up and... Happy... Something? I could no longer fit the words appearing in my imaginary picture fast enough after that. I couldn't even remember the onions at the end. ^^;
The most memorable moment for me is from Undertale.
It's the waterfall area. You get mized between the feeling of being chased and danger and given lore snippets regarding the tragic backstory of the monsters. You learn their reason but also are nervous. Find compassionate and quirky chars.
And then you fall into the abyss when the dead end bridge get broken.
Music halts and you get a text with a memery. Or someone. You are left wondering who it was and then find yourself on yellow flowers.
The next save point then makes a remark about the bottomless pit.. and how one could wonder what might be there.
Almost symbolising the hopeless "pit" or "bottom of the well" the monsters their situation was. It prompted my imagenation to connect and feel sad.
Crystalitar I don’t know if that was Toby Fox’s intention or not, but that’s an incredible connection you’ve made.
For me it was asgores room into the final fight, cause i expected that it would be like most other bosses, sudden but lets you take a break, but the fact that it feels so homely and that my adventure is going to end, and what happened through my whole adventure.
Toby uses the dip effect...ALL the time.
The corridor
Meeting Sans
Battling Papyrus...and everybody. All boss battles have unique dip moments.
Asgore’s battle is overflowing with dip moments, and they’re known as saves. You feel that apprehension Frisk feels when you proceed to confront Asgore. Even Asgore is apprehensive, constantly stalling. This is all physically represented by the number of saves you run into before the battle. There are like, 5 of them. Back to back.
If Toby Fox nothing else, he’s a writing genius.
I'm surprised nobody's mentioned Long Elevator yet. You know, the name given to the elevator whirring noise by the soundtrack. Right after Alphys finally reveals that a human soul isn't strong enough to cross the barrier alone and that you'll need to kill Asgore if you want to go home, information that literally nobody else bothered (or knew) to tell you, the elevator ride is a full 20 seconds. No music, just Long Elevator. Followed by a long, silent walk on a monochrome path with a monochrome capital in the background, until you reach his home, right before what you believe to be the final boss.
But of course, it's not, and you end up going through the True Lab, which is a bunch of walking in between bombshells of exposition and surprising encounters, which could also be considered this trope. And then when you're done, you're forced to walk all the way back to Asgore in silence AGAIN.
You could even consider the game crash right before Photoshop Flowey's fight the same thing. Except it's not measured in how long the elevator is or how long you have to walk. That quiet moment is one that lasts exactly as long as it takes for you to process what just happened and reopen the game. Followed, of course, by a walk in a completely black abyss. Yep, Toby loves this trope.
@@Aflay1 he uses it in deltarune too, right before you fight spamton
It's not common for me to comment, but good video. Your approach of pacing was very good. I will remember that.
I’m really glad to hear it, thank you for watching!
Hi, I come from /r/Gamedev. Just wanted to let you know that your video was incredibly insightful and I really appreciate your time. I'm definitely checking your previous videos, I feel like there are a lot for me to learn, and you seem so good at teaching.
I wish you all the best
Thank you for the kind words! I really appreciate it
I am actually amazed to see how no one references dark souls here. It has close to no soundtrack in between boss fights
"You probably remembered sport and onion"
Me: *only remembered panda and happy*
About the memory test, it's almost impossible to try and brute force it. It's much easier to create a mental picture in your mind by adding all the mentioned words and creating a story out of them .
That’s what I was trying to do! I lost track after the panda playing sports by a wood tree by a train
Try to remember as many as you can:
Me: Okay! I can remember them!
Now pause the video:
Me: I know nothing.
same, i somehow remembered words that were never there to begin with lol
I feel like so many indie developers miss out on the importance of sound/visual stimulation. In games there's a big difference between what you're feeling when you shoot a gun that has recoil+animations vs a gun that has neither.
Oh 100% agree man, like the definition of "feel" is to experience a sensation from one or more of the 5 senses, and if you don't add something to trigger that, the player won't experience anything
7:08 assigning a "story" or "journey" to your memories can significantly improve your memory as you only need to hear the word once to remember it
Well done vid. I wish you all the patience and inspiration it takes to keep this up!
Thank you so much!
О, Зилков, дарова
Wow, this is so well researched! I love this video and watched it all in one go because it's so fascinating :0
Very nice touch at the end when you went full circle by coming back to the example from the beginning!
I will definitely REMEMBER this amazing video x')
Haha thank you! I really appreciate the feedback, glad it will stick with you!
"Why do you think I break these videos up into activities and multiple sections?" Get out of my head, wizard!
3:12 "the scene is quiet, and allows you to catch a breather and reflect"
Meanwhile link: _transforms into a unicycle_
I like when games like ghost of Tsushima or life Is strange, that let you contemplate the ambient, the quiet surrounds and the scream of suffering coming from your basement.
WOW. This video is Amazing. So well researched and engaging.
Thank you very much!
I've posted a link to this video on Reddit.
You definitely deserve WAY more exposure!
Link 1: www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/8p04x2/an_amazing_video_about_the_psychology_behind/
Link 2: www.reddit.com/r/gamedev/comments/8p04xi/an_amazing_video_about_the_psychology_behind/
Thank you so much for sharing this man! I genuinely appreciate it, literally 100 more subscribers since you shared it haha, the world needs more kind people like you.
Just found your channel and had to subscribe. It's really interesting to see the "why" instead of just the "how" of game design. I guess I'll be spending the next hours watching all your videos and taking notes :D
Haha thank you! I hope you learn something along the way :)
I did horribly in the memory game but I really enjoyed the interaction. It's not often I get to take a break like that in the middle of a video. Well played, sir!
I'm an aspiring game dev, it's always been something I've wanted to work towards. But, what interests me about your videos is often the psychology, not necessarily the games themselves. I tend to learn a lot about how my own mind works and functions, and can comprehend it by reaching back into my memory of the games I've played and using them as analogies.
Your content is amazing, and honestly, even after only discovering your channel 24 hours ago, I already can't wait for more.
Absolutely fantastic video. Very interesting topic. Reminds me of the power of design by subtraction, which shadow of the colossus shines for.
Looking forward more content from you!
Was directed here from Reddit, and normally when I come across low sub low view channels like this, I watch the video and understand. It's great that people want to create meaningful content, but many just don't seem to be able to. You are a pleasant exception and after seeing several comments (Including the link that sent me here) along the lines of, "You are great and deserve more attention," I wholeheartedly agree. I haven't yet watched your other videos, but if they are just as good, or even if they're not and this one was especially great because as you say, it kicked your ass, I'm excited for the new work you'll produce. This video was well edited, used great examples, was thought through, and fortunately for you (Though this is just luck), you have a nice voice and tone for this sort of work. Looking forward to more of your stuff (And going through the backlog) because you have done great work. Thank you for putting the time to create videos like this.
Thank you so much for those kind words! I genuinely appreciate the feedback and I'm very glad to have you on board. I'm excited for what the future holds and it gets me pumped when people respond like this. Much, much appreciated man
I’m a little surprised this video doesn’t have a bazillion views. Recently I’ve piqued my curiosty in creating a video game of my own. This video has taught me priceless knowledge for not only that, but also gave me an idea for how I can incorporate the dip effect in my own writing / music for said game. Thank you, is an understatement!
Video: Sport, panda, wood, train-
Me trying to give myself phrase clues for memory: UH Kung Fu Panda!
Dead cells is godlike at this auditory info: having mostly aesthetic music up until the final 2 or 3 areas where they make it clear these are the endgame areas.
One of the best scenes I’ve ever seen is the keep scene with Elena in Uncharted 4 when you just have the melancholy piano as you’re left with the words “for better or worse” as you reflect on Nate’s marriage and whether or not it will survive this betrayal of trust.
Gotta say, I love the interactivity you add in these videos (little games to show your point). Really love it!
I found your channel recently and it's already one of my favorites. I could watch your content for hours
This was utterly fascinating. I can see how this one would kick your butt to write...but it came out excellent.
I liked the little touch about how you also make your videos in a way that addresses the pace you've described.
New suscriber here, I dont know if you keep scrolling throught old comments but i just discovered your channel and i love the effort and passion you put on this kind of talks. Aside of that, i am a person that usually feel overwhelmed by many things, i mean in the sensorial aspect. And some of the very few games that i love have this aspect that makes you as a player, lead the speed of incoming information. Games like The Stanley Parable, The Witness, Getting Over It, Crypt of The Necrodancer(Bard), The Room (and any puzzle indie game too). I see that your way to feel gaming is more deep, psychic, meaningful, i dont know if that words really say what im trying to. But i just wanted to know what do you think about all this "effective learning process" happening in this sort of games that doesnt have what you talk about in the video. Beforehand thx again, i see here in comment section that you are very close to subs and im glad i found this amazing word
Hey thank you so much for the kind words! I love hearing what you guys have to say about this stuff, and I'm glad this video resonated with you.
To answer your question, I don't think the primacy and recency effect I mentioned here is necessary to learn a game well, I just think it can help *if* the game throws a lot at you at once. Ultimately, I think it comes down to... "does the game give the player a chance to breath?" Breaks aren't always needed in game-play if the game itself is in no hurry to make you continue. You mentioned The Room and The Witness, and those are great examples of the game letting *you* set the pace. I hope that makes sense!
ɪntərɛstɪŋ, quite interesting ideed.
Weirdly, I forgot the last word almost immediately, but recalled more words from the beginnning. (or maybe just extremely little of the words, you mentioning the first word doesn't exclude the second words etc.)
I searched "dip effect" on youtube trying to find this, and the results were nasty.
Daryl: ...lets the player relax for a moment
Link, rolling uphill: *HYAA YAH HUP HYAA HAAAH*
Honestly I'm really sad I only recently found your channel. There is some amazing content here and video's like this really help me understand the way my own mind works. I'm incredibly grateful! Please never stop!
Also when you gave the word memorization quiz i remembered most of it because i made a mental image of things like digit on a paper, hammering an onion, a wooden train etc.
This may just be because i am an artist and draw a lot but it may be worth looking into
Your videos are so well written and soothing for my mind. I enjoy the way you think.
I'm studying digital games, to maybe (hopefully?) be a game developer (or at least part of the process) in the near future, and I need to say that I've been watching your Psych of Play videos the whole evening now, and your work is amazing, honestly. It has given me much to rethink and analyse and (re-?)learn (or maybe just pay more attention to these little details that actually make the whole experience), and it's so useful but nice and easy to watch... So I want to thank you. Thank you.
Thank you for this one. It brought some deep research to a topic I've been interested in for some time but have been approaching it from a different side. That being, rest period at the end of workshops for example. Really great talk, thanks again!
These episodes are always so damn interesting, I love how you explain everything. Great video man
Thanks so much man!
I imagine these videos take so much effort is love to see you get a larger audience
I really like the way you make videos, it´s very informational and calm :)
much love from Austria
I must admit your video-essays are very much thought provoking. I am making my own game right now and I must admit, I've been taking A LOT of notes, from your essays. Thanks :)
Amazing video, great job! This reminds me of when I was doing the research phase of my final capstone project in college. I would have loved to have this video then! Primacy and Recency is an extremely interesting concept. I suggest you look into Spiraling and Scaffolding as well. It's amazing how much game design can learn from pedagogical design (and vice versa).
Thank you so much! I'm glad to see that other's find this as interesting as I do. I genuinely feel like those that understand teaching/educational theory would make the best game devs. Oh and Spiraling and Scaffolding is absolutely on my list now, thanks for that :)
I only just discovered your channel yesterday, and I've already subscribed. Not only are your videos full of useful information, they're also super fun to watch!
I LOVED this video! So well thought out with good information that's presented well. Please keep making Psych of Play videos to help us game devs make better games!
Excellent video as always Daryl! I learned so much, and I appreciate how you highlighted the importance of audiovisual input and how it can make games memorable, I completely agree with you and am glad to have better insight about the dip effect. Also, I focused a bit too hard on Panda maybe hahaha.
Haha I thought about that as I was finishing up editing! Much appreciated as always man :)
Amazing video. So well paced, lots of references. Great approach with the graphics and psych references
Damn... I love you analitic aproach to video games... I normaly watch videos about games development and how to improve... but this kind of videos make me look at the design from a diferebt perspective... I love it!
Thanks a lot
Bro. your channel is absolutely amazing. How are you not bigger.
Your videos are so great and thought provoking. I appreciate your work sir.
You deserve more than a million subscribers! I am entranced by your videos...
This series is absolutely great! Please keep it going!
Aaaand you did it again, a fantastic video. This is so interesting and well-explained. Thank you, I'm craving for more !
Much appreciated! There will be more, hopefully next time it won't take as long haha
Thanks for the effort you put in on this. You are appreciated !
I love these videos
I’ve been binging this channel for a couple hours now, and it’s safe to say that I’ll be a viewer in the future as well
Thank you, what an amazing video :)
Keep it up!
Man, I simply love your videos. I'm studying game dev but I'm having trouble to find what should I do and your videos just give me this shine again in wanting to make games. THANKS
instant sub. quality content learn a lot. it's so interesting how the game were designed. love your voice and effort to made this quality video
Hey thank you so much for that Roc! Glad to have you on board and very pumped you enjoyed the video :)
I think this is the video that made me valorize pacing in games.
I've seen it before, but i just rewatched it.
What I remember:
lamp
onion
happy
hammer
sport
force
wood
So informative! Thank you so much for the work you put into this. It's so intriguing the way thinks affect the mind, especially a medium as diverse and unique as videogames. Thanks again for this video!
Thank YOU for watching!
I wasn't sure what was meant when people described the pacing of a game, but I now know what they were referring to thanks to this video. Very elaborate with many welcomed examples that make it more digestible and understandable. It was pretty clever how you used that example study as a base for the rest of the video; it really tied things together.
Thanks for the kind words! Glad to hear you enjoyed :)
Wow! I only just found your channel - and it is beautiful. Really to the point, and with great delivery.
Thank you so much!
Amazing I never really thought it like that before
This was so informative! I love your videos so much. Not only do i learn stuff I never even thought to consider, i get the insider on some pretty cool games i definitely wanna check out. Keep up the good work uncle!!
Hey thanks!! Haha so glad you enjoyed, maybe it’ll help you get an edge in those psych classes you’ll be taking soon :)
Daryl Talks Games they're certainly helping me solidify my decision to stay in psych! Lol
I've only seen this video from you and I can already tell you're gonna do very well here. I'm suprised you don't have gazillion views on this but it's early still. I'm gonna go watch the rest. I love it big time.
Thank you for the kind words! I really appreciate that :) and thanks for watching!
"the scene is... quiet..." ~background: "HUH HAAAA HUH HUH HAAAA" lol
Very enjoyable video .. i could inagine alot of work went into making it . Thanks for sharing that
wow composition of this video is marvelous! great job
Just found your channel. You're doing some really good stuff here, and for that, you've earned my sub. Keep up the good work.
Well done. Loved the video!
Much appreciated!
I'm pretty sure I've only watched at least 2 or 3 of your videos, excluding this one, but man are they always really interesting to watch
Your videos on game design are all amazing! You deserve way more exposure, I love all your content!
Thank you so much!
Someone linked me one of these videos (The one about determination in players), and I must say, I quite like your content.
Keep up the good work.
This channel helps me so much with my game ideas . Thank you!
Excellent work guy, keep going as you do!
You definitely deserve more views! This is great stuff!
Thank you so much!
This is the reason why I often use paragraphs in my comments.
I can’t imagine why anyone wouldn’t want to use paragraphs for comments. They’re so useful. Even in short bursts like this.
Awesome 👍 keep making these!
I know a trick for the memorization thing. If you try to combine the words you can make it a whole lot easier. For example, I combined sports and panda into soccer, because the ball is black and while similar to a panda.
Great videos! I’m in love with this channel!
Soooo awesome!!! Thank you!
Great video! I'm always interested in these kind of techniques used in games and video, somehow "The Dip Effect" reminded me about match cuts in videography, really interesting video and definitely subscribed!
Thank you very much!
Just stumbled upon your channel. Incredible content. Keep it up!
Interesting how Daryl showed that he repeated the words to remember them at the reveal of answers yet the whole time I visualized someone, accompanied by a forg and panda sharing an onion, writing numbers with a lamp on inside a train that also carried trucks. :00
I love this video so much! I know that a lot of people have already said this, but it is well researched and it made me realize why I like certain games. I'm surprised that you dont have a lot of subscribers.
Hey thank you! I'm really glad to hear that you got something out of it :)
This was highly informative, thanks for the thoughts good sir
The line graph was a good visual aid to describe pacing - reminds me of Vonnegut's shapes of stories
Very interesting videos, thanks! You got a new fan:) Good luck
Thank you! Glad to have you on board :)
Cool, I was watching this video (and another one of yours) with teaching my language class that uses storytelling. Hoping to use some of these concepts in my class design :D
One of the best videos I have seen of videogame psychology, you earned a new sub
Thank you bro! Glad to have you on board!
Love the psych of play series :D This one was especially intreresting
Well done dude
Great video, you deserve way more subscribers!
Awesome content, I'll check out everything about game design little by little
I'm subscribing. You're an amazing storyteller.