It's Not Just A Climate Crisis | Mike Joy
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- Опубліковано 13 лип 2022
- Mike Joy is a freshwater ecologist and Senior Researcher at IGPS Victoria University of Wellington. He has been working for two decades at the interface of science and policy in New Zealand with a goal of strengthening connections between science, policy and real outcomes to address the multiple environmental issues facing New Zealand.
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He explains the multiple links between New Zealand’s dairy industry and environmental damage-giving a fantastic example of what a systems problem looks like in a real-world context-before diving into an analysis of the correlation between human and planetary health.
🔴 Discover Mike's work: waterqualitynz.info/
We discuss political gridlocks, science communication, activist movements, technology and art in this far-reaching conversation, before turning to the question: How do we precisely target the people causing the crises around the world?
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🌎 Website: www.planetcritical.com/
🌎 Twitter: / planet_critical
🌎 Rachel's Twitter: / debeaudoir
#politicalcrisis #climatecrisis #economiccrisis #newzealand #animalagriculture
© Rachel Donald - Наука та технологія
A good bloke that Mike... I wish we had more like him.
And more like you!
Not only beautiful and fearless, but highly impressive intelligence displayed in this episode. Great job Rachel!
How did all this intelligence on display improve our situation on earth?
A great interview with Mike Joy - who has quietly held a light to the story of what's happening in the waters of Āotearoa New Zealand AND of the links to the short-termist, self-serving, tunnel-visioned cult of market fundamentalism.
New Zealand, with our flawed colonial history still today shaped by weakly regulated landscape consumption.
Mike Joy: a professional scientist and expert fresh water ecologist, now teaching in the Victoria University School of Governance and Policy Studies. I look up to Dr Joy as a leader (like Planet: Critical) in the bringing of "Collapse 101" to us all AND in the gentlest possible way!
Permit me this little story: I saw young resilience radicals a few years ago at an Ōtaki Summer Camp field trip led by Mike. An indelible image on my mind: the keen curiosity of the young Summer Campers, gathering on the banks around Mike as he searched under rocks, catching crawlers & aquatic life in his river net, and quietly teaching, teaching, teaching. Our young climate champions saw Mike Joy: working for life on Earth, the Good Boomer, standing in his waders in the cool river where the Ōtaki River Forks into the mountains north of Wellington.
Mike has really climbed mountains. He has surely seen the Promised Land and wept "what have we done?". Mike Joy is indeed a science communicator for our time. So he's an exemplar for younger scientists of the vocational paradigm of integrity and service to the Social Responsibility of Science.
A wonderful interview Rachel, to be enjoyed again and shared. Truth and justice shine here. Jack Santa Barbara and Tina Ngata..good platforms choices Dr Joy!
fascinating information - on environmental pollution and the 1 milligram standard ! Thanks - Nitrate pollution is a big big problem in farm country around here. "The most common cause of blue baby syndrome is water contaminated with nitrates. After a baby drinks formula made with nitrate-rich water, the body converts the nitrates into nitrites. These nitrites bind to the hemoglobin in the body, forming methemoglobin, which is unable to carry oxygen."
“People who pride themselves on their ‘complexity’ and deride others for being "simplistic" should realize that the truth is often not very complicated. What gets complex is evading the truth.”
Thomas Sowell
that's from Robin Dunbar's research on the 200 people - "This number was first proposed in the 1990s by British anthropologist Robin Dunbar, who found a correlation between primate brain size and average social group .."
Such awesome chemistry between you two. Thank you for getting the best out of all your guests.
Great idea Rachael on having A Real Cop. Brilliant actually, in my opinion
#RealCOP!! Yes!! That is a GREAT idea! Thanks for that, @Rachel. ✊🏻✊🏻✊🏻
“It is hard to imagine a more stupid or more dangerous way of making decisions than by putting those decisions in the hands of people who pay no price for being wrong.”
Thomas Sowell
I and my family have lived off grid for 7 years. Our place is adjacent to a small town and our house has normal appliances. But having said that we don't have a large screen TV, our fridge and freezer are not enormous etc. We've learnt to use high energy things when it's sunny, vacuum during the day not at night etc. My point is that on an individual level it is possible to re-educate your self and be happy and live within limits.
What goes wrong is the advertising industry and social media that stirs up discontent and envy.
I think that Overshoot Day is too generous - it doesn't include the past debts from "ecological imperialism"
Let those of us who want to farm do it and support the artists who do not.
I wonder if anyone has tried adding charcoal to the soil on those dairy farms... to absorb the nitrites. Terra Preta soil, in the Amazon holds on to nutrients, rather than allowing them to be flushed into the ground water. The carbon water filtres for home use remove nitrites..
Save Our Planet
Read Stephen Buhner's Earth Grief, pages 130 - 155 discusses the medical/pharmaceutical industry's damage to the earth's air and water. The pages prior to the medical discussion are also very interesting - all about plastics (which are used widely in the medical arena).
It’s too bad the US isn’t willing to lead the way on this. I hope Europe can manage to get together and start the party you dream about.
Good COP/Bad COP Excellent Ep. I love the show. Thank you...
As society simplifies, art does not disappear but disperses. Specialists in the arts, from violinists to the novelist to the Manhattan artist, will fall aside to be replaced by folk art, home art, the professional table gossip, the storyteller, street juggler, and all those riff raf thar the symphony goer rolls the eyes at. Democratization of art comes with climate serfdom.
And who is our Lordship?
I love how y'all talked about the "new economy or society". Yes, I have heard that we are "wired" to know 200 folks even in a huge City. Rachel, I loved what you said about the arts. I will remember that as my grandchildren inherently enjoy dancing around my house to music. I am a Chemist and my husband is an Electrician. My husband embraces green technology and I eschew it but "it takes all kinds". The "new society" will need farmers, artists, writers, etc. I hope we get to this new society. I am 58 years old so I believe the results of permafrost thaw, loss of the cryosphere
and wet bulb temperatures may outpace societal power structure change but we must keep trying. For now I will sing, dance, feed wild animals and birds in my yard and grow flowers and vegetables.
Why do you not support green tech ? Huh?
@@georgenelson8917for myself I find all tech unappealing, until becomes a ubiquity
Tourism was post pyramid economy...pyramid tourism..another great talk and guest..thanks.
Rachel is an absolute good in this world! I'd like to platform Umair Haque.
Has she ever done a show on how the Aerosol Masking Effect is twice as bad as previously thought? She could interview Daniel Rosenfeld for the details. thanks
@@voidisyinyangvoidisyinyang885 I am not seen that on Planet Critical, but she's getting some very important guest all the time.
@@TennesseeJed I remember being young and idealistic - I was very active in the Green movement, Green party and political activism - I organized campaigns and coalitions and I did civil disobedience arrests 8 times - had some policy change successes. I worked in half a dozen nonprofits on environmental policy - Greenpeace, etc. haha.
@@voidisyinyangvoidisyinyang885 Sounds like you tried very hard. Society is so complicated and getting everyone on the same reality track is obviously impossible. I am 58 this year with grandchildren and am worried for the stability of their lives, hopefully they can find a tribe to be a part of in the emergency they'll face.
@@TennesseeJed Our fixation on linear time as a symmetric spatial irrational geometry goes back to Plato - and thus the rectilinear housing crazy. haha. Our brainwashing is quite deep. Humans have been around over 100,000 years as our modern biological selves. We have to learn to reverse-engineer our scientific knowledge based on our true psychophysiology. So as Vandana Shiva says, "growth happens from within." The Alchemy of DeNile is Deep! Take care
This is great - especially the last 10 minutes!
Thanks
29:40 exactly
I have been listening and watching these podcasts for 6 months. I think i have watched them all. You definately cater to the high level thinker. I never hear much mentioned about the average citizen or person. Where is the individual in a real way in these conversations. Seems its the people who have the power to bring any of these systems to its knees. It reminds me of the "litter" problem. Until the individual is spoken to, the collective "we", will continue consuming as "it" does until its all gone. Anyone talking about dealing with the individuals thinking and behaviors at the cultural level? Im one of those high level thinkers working in the deferred housing maintenance sector. Its amazing what you realize working on peoples homes.
What have you learned in Deferred Maintenance?
@@DrSmooth2000 deferred maintenance teaches you them temporary nature in which we connect with our places of domicile. It's seems like an element of our hunter-gatherer past that expects to move on once the resources have been depleted in a area. Sedentary living is not our natural instinct. We build nests like rats and generally maintain our environments in a disposable manner. Humans don't clean up after themselves, we just move on until our populations collapse from hardship. In modern times this cycle has been interrupted temporarily yet it will return. We are doomed.
I expect that the pyramid 'industry' ended when the economic surplus of Nile agriculture ended due to environment destruction or government failure to maintain the irrigation infrastructure.
'... so easy to attack the study ....' is the story of environment protection. They can find lawyers to argue the 'right' opinion.
Try reading "The Religion of Technology" by former MIT Professor David F. Noble
and many doctors do not recommend drinking milk/dairy!
I'm always late to these discussions. Just discovered the channel. Mike cracked me up about his gym parking analogy with lazyness. I can understand Rachels position on medical tech and it would be great to pick the eyes out of what tech is good and what's not worth pursuing for various reasons. The problem with this postion is, we won't. For evey good bit of tech going forward, there will be an environmental downside and ripples of unintended consequences through the whole system because, money. Humanity lacks wisdom as a species and I suspect always will. I tend to think we have hit peak useful science in most areas. Just like all resources, there's a peak and tail. We already have the knowledge and tools to make the vast majority of humans on this planets lives pain free and fulfilling. Moving on from here as we gene edit ourselves, grow replacement organs and limbs and shift to producing totally synthetic life forms, downloaded intelligence etc, the overall utility and sustainability of these hugely expensive activities to the human species is declining, outside of the uber wealthy.
The elephants in the room seems to be avoided, Overshoot and Overpopulation. As for the pyramids, the standard narrative doesn't make sense.
Mike Joy's suspicions of energy depletion before long seems likely, ending increases to global warming crisis and ending global industrial civilization simultaneously. Win win. Renewables won't scale up, but hopefully folks will insist upon trying anyway, and then the curtain on this fossil fuel experiment gone bonkers will fall. Trying to keep business as usual afloat while the 'usual' becomes scarce guarantees an acceleration of decline.
gee mcfearsun please
I think the older way of life is a bit idealized here. Communities differed from each other greatly earlier too, some didn't have tight connections and solidarity, even though they had a more traditional lifestyle. And don't forget please that people didn't choose to live that way, they had to. They accepted it because that was their only reality. Social pressure, different kinds of intimidation etc were much more prevalent then, the social structure was in some respect more rigid. Older times weren't necessarily better times, not at all. It doesn't make any sense to cherry-pick the positive aspects but ignore the numerous negative ones. Those societies weren't better then today's, if they would have the possibility they would've used the same technologies and gadgets we use today.
Fair points
But traditional cultures lasted for centuries, millennia.
It is 20-21 century culture that may not be able to perpetuate itself
So you are saying we don't have the ability to apply the best aspects of both ways of living, while rejecting the worst?
@@keithomelvena2354 Hopefully we have.
28:43
'get people excited about politics' tough one to win where 'but I like my car' trumps all reason.
yeah silicone valley has the highest concentration of toxic waste sites in the U.S. - technology is driven by exponential growth math - see Physics prof. Albert Bartlett's professor
He was great..love his talks..
They been hurting kids fir yrs , we lost our mom as children, yrs , thats got to against the rules , it hurt us & our family, people's quit life because of it , were almost old now & emotionally speaking, stil hurt , its a terrible thing for children to be met with iffy grown ups ,y He was born , 👣👑
Evolution: The process by which an entity changes over time in response to external pressures in relation to its environment and in conjunction with other interrelated entities and the super-organism which includes all life past and present.
Economics: Any narrative which seeks to explain and justify the exploitation and distribution of recourses to a sub-set of the entire community to the exclusion of the well-being of natural systems, the community as a whole, the individual and the future well being of the planet and generations to come.
Farm: Any land or body of water wherein the evolutionary process of the super-organism is humbly guided by humankind in an effort to adjust the evolution of the systems therein such that they are more heavily weighted to provide for the needs and wants of humankind.
Life: the byproduct of the process of converting solar energy into the evolving super-organism that has resulted in an ever more stable environment on planet earth save the disruptions caused by mankind.
Farm Steward: a person who is able and willing to devote him/herself in some part or in whole to developing the skills and knowledge necessary and to cooperate and train others to inspire and and catalyze a transition of a farm and beyond to a regenerative model in alignment with global well being.
Money: Any popularly accepted narrative justifying the creation and storage of potential energy.
Information: The accumulated intellectual potential energy of the society - an asset which grows in value commensurate with its distribution the marginal cost of which now for the first time is approach zero.
yeah "Regenerative agriculture" !! Cool that you know about that Rachel thanks - beyond the vegan cult. haha
The whole problem with this talk, is that it is not possible without all the horrible things you are condemning.
You’re going to need to have talks at universities/ town halls, then mail written record of it and deliver to each follower by sailboat, bicycle and foot.
Do you see where you need to “practice what you preach” before anyone will believe you?
It’s like all the Billionaires telling the world, “you’ll own nothing and love it”
While THEY OWN EVERYTHING, and fly around in their PRIVATE JETS…
Heard of the concept "enough"? I think you will find Mike Joy practices what he preaches. Meanwhile polluters keep on keeping on.
over 12 million people in critical hunger right now in Africa - could go up to 300 million soon - luckily the Ukraine wheat is gonna get exported ...
It is Africa’s self inflicted problem: stupid over population by breeding more and more kids they can’t feed onto a landscape that keeps spreading into the bush pressuring the Animals and plants .
the highest increase in electricity use is cell phones. Of course everyone flies now also.
It is a neither nor situation. Just bullshit alarmism