I found Bishop Varden's remark in his book on Chastity - referred to again in this interview - that 'Chastity is freedom from possessiveness in every sphere of one's life. Only when love is chaste, is it truly love', extraordinarily illuminating. We Catholics are generally brought up to think of chastity as 'Thou shalt not', i.e. a negative thing. And that it only applies to specific sexual behaviour. Bishop Varden shows how much wider and deeper this theological concept is. Indeed, it reminds us that the primary sin is 'possessiveness': 'I want to keep for myself' whatever it is: my intact ego, my material possessions, my relationships' and so on. But true love is freedom, release from this kind of deadly 'ownership' - and it applies to married love and to friendship as to everything else. One might say that chastity is coming to know the beauty of another person's soul. Being all too human a lot of the time, we struggle with this detachment from possessiveness. Even using the word 'detachment' makes it sound negative. I recall my late parish priest arguing that we should replace 'detachment' - which he saw as a cold word - with 'non-attachment'; that is, we are powerfully attached to a person or a thing, yet have to learn to see this attachment in the light of our greater 'attachment' - to Christ. It is only attachment to Christ that will put all our other attachments in the right perspective and thus to celebrate them with chaste love. As Bishop Varden points out somewhere else in this interview, to separate human desires from our spiritual selves leads to a false and unhealthy dualism, to an unnatural 'sublimation'. I think this word comes from Freud? He understood very little about human nature!
I've only just found your channel, and thank God for it. What a wonderful, thoughtful, considered, and intelligent alternative to the inanities of many "Catholic" youtubers. Compared to the kindergartens all over this place, we finally have a graduate school for thinking Catholics. One great interview. Keep it up, Father Bayer!
Erik Varden you are inspirational. Immense thanks for your availability,accessibility. Giving of your gifts and time in the spoken and written word to spread The Word. The gifts of the Holy Spirit abide in you and show abundantly,drawing others to the Light. Reaching me in New Zealand. We have a word in my country New Zealand that id like for you to hear..Taonga… You are a Taonga.
Many thanks Fr. Bayer for this incredibly insightful conversation with Bishop Varden. I was especially inspired by his words “monks have the responsibility to live upright, truthful, whole, and holy lives”. Can you imagine the society we could create if all individuals lived in this manner as well? It is precisely that monks spend much of their time in study, prayer, and contemplation, this gives them powerful insights into the human condition and the ability to interact intelligently and intentionally with others. Our Lord Jesus spent much time retreating in to solitude to be with His Father in prayer and this is how His humanity was able to grasp and understand the brokenness of our souls - the very souls He came to save. I very much look forward to reading Bishop Varden’s books. The diocese of Trondheim is fortunate to have his leadership. I look forward each Monday for the latest edition of Coram Fratribus to arrive in my email inbox! God bless you both. Many thanks to all monastic men and women who pray continually for our broken but beautiful world.
@kimberlyzeeman7473 Well said! Thank you for your kind words. Please pray for all monks and nuns: may we fulfill our vocations and indeed live "upright, truthful, whole, and holy lives" for the good of everyone in the Church and in the world.
Absolutely! Please be assured of my prayers for you and your community. I spent a year of discernment with Benedictine Sisters and instead the Lord Jesus called me to Himself and I was Consecrated as a Virgin Living in the World four years ago tomorrow (on the Memorial of the Queenship of Mary.) But I carry the monastic tradition close to my heart and cannot imagine a day without the Divine Office and Lectio. I found the website of Our Lady of Dallas and took note of your gentlemen in formation. I will include them in my daily prayers and will pray for more holy vocations to your monastery. God bless you and keep you!
To 'sin' is to 'miss the mark', as Bishop Erik Varden said. It seems to me that what we miss (when we miss the mark) is the good. But to say that we _miss_ the mark surely implies that we were _aiming_ at the mark (i.e., at the good). I think that this points to the fact that (as St Thomas Aquinas says) our wills are _always_ orientated towards the good. We cannot will evil qua evil, only under the aspect of the good.
I gave this interview another go. And I will listen again. Erik Varden is uplifting to hear. For example sublimation to duplicity and a better way of honesty and dealing with these things. Thanks
Another snippet of the pie chart in conversation; of the infinite thought of Earth Mankind on to Heaven . Let's not forget about all other things in Earth & Heaven; i.e Ecology et-c. The interactions of Mankind wouldn't be on Earth, if Earth was only bare rock salt water & air. It takes more to make us exist the way we are; weather good or bad. Some things we don't really need are really destroying this World, slowly but surely 🤔. Thankyou for your time again Erik🙂 .
Almighty God, unto whom all hearts are open, all desires known, and from whom no secrets are hid, cleanse the thoughts of our hearts by the inspiration of your Holy Spirit, that we may more perfectly love you and worthily magnify your holy name. This prayer is an immense help. Along with the suggestions of Bishop Varden , it can aid the mind and heart in torment.
I found this conversation extremely helpful and a down to earth approach to dealing with the reality of our fundamental nature as human beings. Is it possible to get a transcript of this conversation. I would like to share it with some persons who have access only to the written word.
Thank you for this Father. Do you have recommendations on books about monastic spirituality? I have taken to praying all 8 canonical hours of the traditional Benedictine office and am still interested in more on Benedictine/cistercian spirituality. Books that expound on the Holy Rule would be very helpful as well.
@dylanfluet8205, I would recommend Louis Bouyer, "The Meaning of the Monastic Life" and Columba Marmion, "Christ the Ideal of the Monk". Those are two books by very reliable authors!
I would be interested to have your view as a monk, Friar Bayer, on Pasolini's film on Saint Matthew. How do you react to it? No strict link to the discussion here except perhaps to the 'dangerous' territory of the 'aesthetic' and the 'ascetic'? One closer link, on second thoughts, is that in that film Pasolini does perhaps capture Bishop Varden's notion of Christ 'actually seeing' people?
@nigelhard1519, I've only seen the first half of Pasolini's film and so don't think I am able to take a definitive position. But from what I remember I thought his presentation of Jesus was a bit one-dimensional. The portrayal of Jesus seemed designed to overawe the disciples, like Zeus with lightning bolts (so to speak), rather than draw them into a transcendent relationship (e.g., I remember him shouting most of the time, even during moments that should have been calm or tender, at least in my imagination of the Gospel). But that's just a quick impression based on what I remember. Others have different (and probably more informed) opinions, I'm sure!
@@fr.johnbayer1905 Yes, I suppose you have a point. But I have always found the film moving in a non-sentimental way. I wish your community all the best. For the moment, my personal problem (if it is a problem) is that I can appreciate religious discussions from the outside, that is I find them facscinating and I can recognise the value of 'good' people and the monastic life (very well explained by Bishop Varden in the discussion). But I remain cold hearted and distanced in a way. I suppose that is a classic lack of faith? I suspect you may have something to say on that! Many thanks for your time.
@nigelhard1519, If I follow you correctly, then I wouldn't necessarily jump to the conclusion that you are experiencing a lack of faith. The absence of emotion is not the same thing as the absence of faith; an act of faith is an act of the will; it is an act of the will to assent to the object of the intellect. We may or may not feel very much when we recognize or affirm the truth of the faith. However, I think that when we are fully purified and conformed to Christ, we will indeed feel the truth of the faith; that is, we will respond "integrally" or with the "wholeness" of our humanity (which includes our emotions). But in this pilgrim life, so much is obscured from our vision. But we can work for a more integral understanding of the faith. If we want a deeper or more integral apprehension of the truth of faith, we can cultivate what John Henry Newman called a "real apprehension" and seek to encounter the faith in a more concrete and living way -- through works of mercy, art, life, liturgy, etc. If our experience of faith is only "notional" then it will feel a bit like math: we might be convinced, but not terribly moved. But if our faith is rooted in a "real" apprehension, then it will make an impression upon our imagination and affectivity, and that could issue in a rich emotional life. I hope that helps! I have a few videos about Newman on this channel, if you're interested for more.
@@fr.johnbayer1905 Magnificent answer. Thank you. I'll look at what you say about Newman. Years ago I read a few pages of his Idea of a University (I think), maybe something else, and was most impressed.
Interesting (if that is the right word) to see that infighting in the comments commences almost instantly. Varden strikes me as very human, inspiring and interesting.
@nigelhard1519, I'm glad you enjoyed Bishop Varden! He strikes me the same way: human, inspiring and interesting. As for the comments section, I'm hoping what's happening is less "infighting" and more sincere engagement in a spirit of charity (which can at times be challenging). For my part, that is the goal! We must labor for love!
I found this a very very difficult interview to watch. To me it was highly academic and distant, that focused on language rather than the person of Jesus Christ who must be the centre of all our prayer and life. I asked myself is this how the apostles would have spoken to Jesus when they were with him? I think not. I cannot imagine Jesus even speaking in such an academic language. Sadly, this interview did not hit the spot. It was like crawling through mud. Yet here was a bishop of a diocese, a monk who has had a meteoric rise to become a boshop and the interviewer wanted to focus on topics that failed to hit the mark. It was like an archer who’s arrows fail to score. This is a bishop who has so much to give through his life and writings but it did not come through in the video. It could have been far far better.
I agree. This stuff has no resonance for me. Let us look honestly at the world. Changing demographics, cost of living. My heart finds rest in reading scripture, there is God seeking us out. Loving us
@1900trent I'm sorry you didn't enjoy the interview! It's true, these words cannot replace personal conversation with Christ. And you are right, Jesus must be the center of all our prayer and life. Still, I hope many people will profit from the video as an effort simply to discuss monastic theology and life. I know that many people are longing for intellectually stimulating discussions of the faith. Hopefully, this video can help to satisfy that longing in those who experience it. God bless!
I thoroughly enjoyed this. Fantastic! Delightful to listen to thought provoking dialogue that addresses the most important thing in all our lives. So grateful for intellects like these 2 who have studied for years and can take my faith walk to a deeper place. 🙏 God bless you both!
@frederickanderson1860, Well, whether we do or don't know anything about human nature, I suppose each will have to judge for himself! But you might like to know that Jesus did indeed regularly retreat into solitude and silence (cf. Luke 5:16). For what it's worth, many have experienced the power of solitude to reveal the human heart. Of course, those who know the human heart will know that we are meant for communion -- and thus an individualist isolationism would not be right to cultivate (but that's not the same thing as solitude and silence, I think). In that regard, you might like what Bishop Varden says about monks engaging with the world (check out the section toward the end titled "Engaging the World"). God bless!
@@fr.johnbayer1905 in all religions you have similar the monks solitude and no part in the worldly temptations, the mystics whose total subjective isolation gave them some strange visions. Those who renounce the flesh and women ,this is not confined to just Christianity. John the baptist was liken to Elijah,but he was prophesied in scripture for his mission.the disciples had to wait 40 days l believe for the promised holy spirit on Pentecost,they became bold and open regards Jesus who was crucified had risen,if as Paul says he has not risen then it's all in vain!!!. Preach christ risen is the message not gained by silence or solitude.
@@frederickanderson1860 It seems to me that these monks do not remain in silence or solitude but engage with the world: see the last few minutes of the discussion.
@DavidFlockhart, regardless of the "day and age," I suspect the relevance of the discussion will depend on the person. If I weren't on a journey, I'd find a compass irrelevant. Hopefully, the wisdom expressed by Bishop Varden can orient at least some of those trying to find their way to God! If it doesn't help you, then I hope you find what will! God bless!
I can agree at some level. It has nothing to say to consumerism and cheap superficial distractions except stop. However that’s more an indictment of this “evil and adulterous generation” than it is of the subjects addressed in the video
Protestants have no doctrines Protestants have no unity Protestants have no history Protestants have no power Protestants have no authority Protestants have no sacraments
I found Bishop Varden's remark in his book on Chastity - referred to again in this interview - that 'Chastity is freedom from possessiveness in every sphere of one's life. Only when love is chaste, is it truly love', extraordinarily illuminating. We Catholics are generally brought up to think of chastity as 'Thou shalt not', i.e. a negative thing. And that it only applies to specific sexual behaviour. Bishop Varden shows how much wider and deeper this theological concept is. Indeed, it reminds us that the primary sin is 'possessiveness': 'I want to keep for myself' whatever it is: my intact ego, my material possessions, my relationships' and so on. But true love is freedom, release from this kind of deadly 'ownership' - and it applies to married love and to friendship as to everything else. One might say that chastity is coming to know the beauty of another person's soul. Being all too human a lot of the time, we struggle with this detachment from possessiveness. Even using the word 'detachment' makes it sound negative. I recall my late parish priest arguing that we should replace 'detachment' - which he saw as a cold word - with 'non-attachment'; that is, we are powerfully attached to a person or a thing, yet have to learn to see this attachment in the light of our greater 'attachment' - to Christ. It is only attachment to Christ that will put all our other attachments in the right perspective and thus to celebrate them with chaste love. As Bishop Varden points out somewhere else in this interview, to separate human desires from our spiritual selves leads to a false and unhealthy dualism, to an unnatural 'sublimation'. I think this word comes from Freud? He understood very little about human nature!
I've only just found your channel, and thank God for it. What a wonderful, thoughtful, considered, and intelligent alternative to the inanities of many "Catholic" youtubers. Compared to the kindergartens all over this place, we finally have a graduate school for thinking Catholics. One great interview. Keep it up, Father Bayer!
This conversation is wonderful. God bless you both
Thank you so much for this interview! Insight after insight. I expect to relisten multiple times!
Erik Varden you are inspirational.
Immense thanks for your availability,accessibility.
Giving of your gifts and time in the spoken and written word to spread The Word.
The gifts of the Holy Spirit abide in you and show abundantly,drawing others to the Light.
Reaching me in New Zealand.
We have a word in my country New Zealand that id like for you to hear..Taonga…
You are a Taonga.
Many thanks Fr. Bayer for this incredibly insightful conversation with Bishop Varden. I was especially inspired by his words “monks have the responsibility to live upright, truthful, whole, and holy lives”. Can you imagine the society we could create if all individuals lived in this manner as well? It is precisely that monks spend much of their time in study, prayer, and contemplation, this gives them powerful insights into the human condition and the ability to interact intelligently and intentionally with others. Our Lord Jesus spent much time retreating in to solitude to be with His Father in prayer and this is how His humanity was able to grasp and understand the brokenness of our souls - the very souls He came to save. I very much look forward to reading Bishop Varden’s books. The diocese of Trondheim is fortunate to have his leadership. I look forward each Monday for the latest edition of Coram Fratribus to arrive in my email inbox! God bless you both. Many thanks to all monastic men and women who pray continually for our broken but beautiful world.
@kimberlyzeeman7473 Well said! Thank you for your kind words. Please pray for all monks and nuns: may we fulfill our vocations and indeed live "upright, truthful, whole, and holy lives" for the good of everyone in the Church and in the world.
Absolutely! Please be assured of my prayers for you and your community. I spent a year of discernment with Benedictine Sisters and instead the Lord Jesus called me to Himself and I was Consecrated as a Virgin Living in the World four years ago tomorrow (on the Memorial of the Queenship of Mary.) But I carry the monastic tradition close to my heart and cannot imagine a day without the Divine Office and Lectio. I found the website of Our Lady of Dallas and took note of your gentlemen in formation. I will include them in my daily prayers and will pray for more holy vocations to your monastery. God bless you and keep you!
This is brilliant! Thanks to both! So much to ponder over.
To 'sin' is to 'miss the mark', as Bishop Erik Varden said. It seems to me that what we miss (when we miss the mark) is the good. But to say that we _miss_ the mark surely implies that we were _aiming_ at the mark (i.e., at the good). I think that this points to the fact that (as St Thomas Aquinas says) our wills are _always_ orientated towards the good. We cannot will evil qua evil, only under the aspect of the good.
I gave this interview another go. And I will listen again. Erik Varden is uplifting to hear. For example sublimation to duplicity and a better way of honesty and dealing with these things. Thanks
Another snippet of the pie chart in conversation; of the infinite thought of Earth Mankind on to Heaven .
Let's not forget about all other things in Earth & Heaven; i.e Ecology et-c. The interactions of Mankind wouldn't be on Earth, if Earth was only bare rock salt water & air. It takes more to make us exist the way we are; weather good or bad.
Some things we don't really need are really destroying this World, slowly but surely 🤔.
Thankyou for your time again Erik🙂 .
Almighty God, unto whom all hearts are open, all desires known, and from whom no secrets are hid, cleanse the thoughts of our hearts by the inspiration of your Holy Spirit, that we may more perfectly love you and worthily magnify your holy name. This prayer is an immense help. Along with the suggestions of Bishop Varden , it can aid the mind and heart in torment.
Sarum collect for purity
Many great points. Well done! 🙏🏻
Thànk you for the shattering of lonliness,how true we are products of our childhood.
😊😊😊
I found this conversation extremely helpful and a down to earth approach to dealing with the reality of our fundamental nature as human beings. Is it possible to get a transcript of this conversation. I would like to share it with some persons who have access only to the written word.
Thank you for this Father. Do you have recommendations on books about monastic spirituality? I have taken to praying all 8 canonical hours of the traditional Benedictine office and am still interested in more on Benedictine/cistercian spirituality. Books that expound on the Holy Rule would be very helpful as well.
@dylanfluet8205, I would recommend Louis Bouyer, "The Meaning of the Monastic Life" and Columba Marmion, "Christ the Ideal of the Monk". Those are two books by very reliable authors!
One of the best I ever read was Casey’s ‘Strangers to the City’
I would be interested to have your view as a monk, Friar Bayer,
on Pasolini's film on Saint Matthew.
How do you react to it? No strict link to the discussion here except perhaps to the 'dangerous' territory of the 'aesthetic' and the 'ascetic'? One closer link, on second thoughts, is that in that film Pasolini does perhaps capture Bishop Varden's notion of Christ 'actually seeing' people?
@nigelhard1519, I've only seen the first half of Pasolini's film and so don't think I am able to take a definitive position. But from what I remember I thought his presentation of Jesus was a bit one-dimensional. The portrayal of Jesus seemed designed to overawe the disciples, like Zeus with lightning bolts (so to speak), rather than draw them into a transcendent relationship (e.g., I remember him shouting most of the time, even during moments that should have been calm or tender, at least in my imagination of the Gospel). But that's just a quick impression based on what I remember. Others have different (and probably more informed) opinions, I'm sure!
@@fr.johnbayer1905 Yes, I suppose you have a point. But I have always found the film moving in a non-sentimental way. I wish your community all the best. For the moment, my personal problem (if it is a problem) is that I can appreciate religious discussions from the outside, that is I find them facscinating and I can recognise the value of 'good' people and the monastic life (very well explained by Bishop Varden in the discussion). But I remain cold hearted and distanced in a way. I suppose that is a classic lack of faith? I suspect you may have something to say on that! Many thanks for your time.
@nigelhard1519, If I follow you correctly, then I wouldn't necessarily jump to the conclusion that you are experiencing a lack of faith. The absence of emotion is not the same thing as the absence of faith; an act of faith is an act of the will; it is an act of the will to assent to the object of the intellect. We may or may not feel very much when we recognize or affirm the truth of the faith. However, I think that when we are fully purified and conformed to Christ, we will indeed feel the truth of the faith; that is, we will respond "integrally" or with the "wholeness" of our humanity (which includes our emotions). But in this pilgrim life, so much is obscured from our vision. But we can work for a more integral understanding of the faith. If we want a deeper or more integral apprehension of the truth of faith, we can cultivate what John Henry Newman called a "real apprehension" and seek to encounter the faith in a more concrete and living way -- through works of mercy, art, life, liturgy, etc. If our experience of faith is only "notional" then it will feel a bit like math: we might be convinced, but not terribly moved. But if our faith is rooted in a "real" apprehension, then it will make an impression upon our imagination and affectivity, and that could issue in a rich emotional life. I hope that helps! I have a few videos about Newman on this channel, if you're interested for more.
@@fr.johnbayer1905 Magnificent answer. Thank you. I'll look at what you say about Newman. Years ago I read a few pages of his Idea of a University (I think), maybe something else, and was most impressed.
Interesting (if that is the right word) to see that infighting in the comments commences almost instantly. Varden strikes me as very human, inspiring and interesting.
@nigelhard1519, I'm glad you enjoyed Bishop Varden! He strikes me the same way: human, inspiring and interesting. As for the comments section, I'm hoping what's happening is less "infighting" and more sincere engagement in a spirit of charity (which can at times be challenging). For my part, that is the goal! We must labor for love!
I found this a very very difficult interview to watch. To me it was highly academic and distant, that focused on language rather than the person of Jesus Christ who must be the centre of all our prayer and life. I asked myself is this how the apostles would have spoken to Jesus when they were with him? I think not. I cannot imagine Jesus even speaking in such an academic language. Sadly, this interview did not hit the spot. It was like crawling through mud. Yet here was a bishop of a diocese, a monk who has had a meteoric rise to become a boshop and the interviewer wanted to focus on topics that failed to hit the mark. It was like an archer who’s arrows fail to score. This is a bishop who has so much to give through his life and writings but it did not come through in the video. It could have been far far better.
I agree. This stuff has no resonance for me. Let us look honestly at the world. Changing demographics, cost of living.
My heart finds rest in reading scripture, there is God seeking us out. Loving us
@1900trent I'm sorry you didn't enjoy the interview! It's true, these words cannot replace personal conversation with Christ. And you are right, Jesus must be the center of all our prayer and life. Still, I hope many people will profit from the video as an effort simply to discuss monastic theology and life. I know that many people are longing for intellectually stimulating discussions of the faith. Hopefully, this video can help to satisfy that longing in those who experience it. God bless!
I thoroughly enjoyed this. Fantastic! Delightful to listen to thought provoking dialogue that addresses the most important thing in all our lives. So grateful for intellects like these 2 who have studied for years and can take my faith walk to a deeper place. 🙏 God bless you both!
It seems to me the whole conversation was infused with Christ beginning to end.@@fr.johnbayer1905
But there is nothing academic or distant, for example, about the reference to the man with the scars on his back....(25 minutes in).
Monks no nothing about human nature. Jesus never became a solitary monk studying the tanakh in secluded silence.
@frederickanderson1860, Well, whether we do or don't know anything about human nature, I suppose each will have to judge for himself! But you might like to know that Jesus did indeed regularly retreat into solitude and silence (cf. Luke 5:16). For what it's worth, many have experienced the power of solitude to reveal the human heart. Of course, those who know the human heart will know that we are meant for communion -- and thus an individualist isolationism would not be right to cultivate (but that's not the same thing as solitude and silence, I think). In that regard, you might like what Bishop Varden says about monks engaging with the world (check out the section toward the end titled "Engaging the World"). God bless!
@@fr.johnbayer1905 in all religions you have similar the monks solitude and no part in the worldly temptations, the mystics whose total subjective isolation gave them some strange visions. Those who renounce the flesh and women ,this is not confined to just Christianity. John the baptist was liken to Elijah,but he was prophesied in scripture for his mission.the disciples had to wait 40 days l believe for the promised holy spirit on Pentecost,they became bold and open regards Jesus who was crucified had risen,if as Paul says he has not risen then it's all in vain!!!. Preach christ risen is the message not gained by silence or solitude.
@@frederickanderson1860 It seems to me that these monks do not remain in silence or solitude but engage with the world: see the last few minutes of the discussion.
@@nigelhard1519 l doubt they can communicate to people outside of their own perception of the world. Birds of a feather flock together.
@@frederickanderson1860 I think they can communicate to anyone of goodwill, lay or otherwise. The key is 'good will'.
Totally irrelevant in this day and age.
@DavidFlockhart, regardless of the "day and age," I suspect the relevance of the discussion will depend on the person. If I weren't on a journey, I'd find a compass irrelevant. Hopefully, the wisdom expressed by Bishop Varden can orient at least some of those trying to find their way to God! If it doesn't help you, then I hope you find what will! God bless!
I can agree at some level. It has nothing to say to consumerism and cheap superficial distractions except stop. However that’s more an indictment of this “evil and adulterous generation” than it is of the subjects addressed in the video
Protestants have no doctrines
Protestants have no unity
Protestants have no history
Protestants have no power
Protestants have no authority
Protestants have no sacraments