33:22: Women live on a "rape schedule"? All women? Shit, I'm running awfully late, since the constant awareness that I could be raped at any moment isn't something I've been able to fit into my day. And I'm speaking as someone who's been assaulted. If Christina Hoff Sommers is correct about the statistics and the theory that propagate this "rape culture" paradigm as valid, then would it not be this constant rhetoric that rape IS a daily part of life that is promoting an unnecessary paranoia in some women? It seems to be only women who believe in this "rape culture" who are obsessively anxious about being raped. If this constant level of anxiety is unreasonable and detached from reality, and is partly the result of this "rape culture" narrative, then the people propagating the narrative are arguably abusing and terrorizing women.
+karen straughan hey, the 1 in 5 is so ironclad they won't bother defending it, one in 50, one in 4, same shit apparently , rape still happens and no woman is safe. In fact these standards guarantee that women will never be safe because rape will always happen, that's like a blank check for eternal victimhood.
+Potem1917 I remember on the UN's Broadband commission on "cyber violence against women and girls", one panelist said that violence against women was still a global epidemic because it still happens in every single country. Let's parse that. Let's say that in every country, 1 woman is assaulted by someone at some point in her life. Still a global epidemic according to this panelist. Can anyone imagine an entire country of people where there was not a single incident of someone punching a man in the face over some slight or disagreement? Where there was not a single murder of a man? Where there was not a single young man shoved into a locker by some asshole at school? Where no woman every slapped a man out of jealousy? Where there was NO violence against men whatsoever? Just one country, let alone a majority, or all of them? Can anyone even wrap their heads around something like that? And yet somehow, if there is at least one woman in every country who's been pushed on the subway, or had her arm twisted by her boyfriend, violence against women will remain a global epidemic. What feminists seem to want is for women to become a class of untouchables.
Climate change is definitely rape culture. Now you're at the heart of the beast! Being p-i-s-s-y about anything guys do that is shitty. It's ultimate extreme is radical overthrow of Civilization.
34:00 Consent is more complicated than she's saying here, at least in the legal sense. I consent to my bank taking an NSF fee if I bounce a check, but I certainly wouldn't have consented to that if they didn't require it on the contract. I can't say my consent was coerced because they made it a condition of their contract, or that without my consent to it they would have denied me service. In fact, I was required to initial that part of the contract so that I can't come back later and say they didn't inform me of what I was signing. My bank decides they're willing to give me a car loan, but at 18%. I would never consent to that if I didn't have to (if they were willing to offer me a lower rate), nor would I freely offer to pay them 18% out of the goodness of my heart. Can I claim I was coerced because they made that high rate a condition of doing business with me? You know, because I was stuck between a rock and a hard place, and didn't have any other options if I wanted to get that car? What if I really needed that car? Should I feel more coerced to accept terms that I wouldn't have agreed to if I didn't have to? Now consider a couple. The man says, "If you don't have sex with me regularly, then I can't be in this relationship with you." The woman then has sex with him. Did she consent? Feminists would probably say no. Has she been coerced? Feminists would probably say yes. This is because feminists conflate the terms "didn't want to" with "didn't agree to." And, increasingly, they are demonizing men for the sin of having preferences, let alone requirements, when it comes to women and sex. Just as my bank would say, "If this NSF fee is unacceptable to you, you're free to go to another bank, or to keep your money in a coffee can in the pantry," or, "If this interest rate is unacceptable to you, you're free buy a jalopy or even take the bus," that boyfriend should be free to say, "Sex is part of the deal for me. If my requirement for regular sex is unacceptable to you, you're free to find another boyfriend or be single." This should be the case whether the woman is dependent on him for important things (like shelter, money or whatever) that he provides to her or not, just as the bank is not coercing me just because I really, really, really need that car, or just because the bank is a powerful entity while I'm just some shmoe with no bargaining power. You can call him a dickbag, and I think there are dickbags whose behavior should be stigmatized or discouraged socially, but if sexual consent law is to continue to be based on contract law, which is, I think, the only coherent way to legally think of it, then it has to be treated like a contract.
I second that. I love your videos Karen. You have a very clear way of presenting your ideas and analyses of some quite complicated topics. I'm so glad you are on our side... the side of logic and reasoned debate. Thank you.
That’s sort of takes all the joy out of a relationship...sex, money, shelter, and most importantly love..are freely given and it is a choice. If you aren’t satisfied with the sex in the relationship, it isn’t frequent enough or good enough, you can either talk about it, or break up. You’d be better off finding a woman who has the same sex drive as you, who genuinely wants to give back out of her own free will, not because of a contract. That’s cant be much of a turn on for either party, for one having its having choice and free will taken out of the dynamic, and for the other to feel like their partner views sex with you as if it were an oppressive job that has to be done out of some consenting obligation, not out of desire. They only signed a contract with you because they felt they didn’t have a better option and you’re just their meal ticket. Real, loving relationships where both parties are committed to giving to one another and meeting each other’s needs out of love and respect is a contract of the heart. Who in their right mind would want a relationship that felt like a car sale? Jesus... Karen...sweetie, I just don’t know about you sometimes. But I hope you got a good deal on a nice Subaru.
Also the idea that begging someone for sex until they say yes is coercion which it isn't cause when you beg someone for something you're giving someone the power to say yes or no.
Amanda Browm Ofcourse its ok to say hi. What's not ok, and the point she was making, was that if a woman fails to say hi back, she often gets verbally abused. I know that to be very true indeed!
99IronDuke Experience is a valuable form of evidence. As millions of women have expressed the same experience, i'd call that pretty convincing evidence.
Guy gets kicked in the balls by his girlfriend, crowd laughs and thinks it's funny. (Movies love using this) Guy says hey beautiful to a girl, it's borderline sexual assault or violent.
As an older feminist (with distinct leanings towards Sommers' stances) I want to urge young women to shed the "rape culture" state of mind. If you argue yourselves into a permanent state of anxiety walking around expecting aggressions on every corner you will never get to leading a good life. You will miss out on so much. Our rallying cry was "Women take back the night" and it was great fun. Try it one time.
Not once in the entire discussion did those claiming that sexualised culture leads to rape provide any evidence for this link. If you look at countries worldwide, the more sexualised imagery in mainstream culture tends to actually correlate with women being treated better. That's not necessarily causation either but it does cast doubt on their theories.
+gary wood I was involved in a debate with several feminists on a Facebook page and I noticed that they also consistently failed to prove the correlation between their first and second premises, rendering their own conclusions invalid. It's shocking the amount of people who insisted that I was wrong and 'stubborn' to demand actual evidence.
Lol, a feminist using the 1 in 4 stat. Just lol. All credibility lost in that moment. I'm sure based mom will be dropping truth bombs all over that crap :D
48:21: "What affect does this idea that women cannot give consent have on the legal system in general?" Easy: women unable to sign contracts without a guardian present.
At 55:00, can Christina H. Sommers comment on why the police have not tested rape kits with years of back log and why are there so few cases even get to trial? From what I read there are only few percentage of men who got convicted. Not to mention that many of the women who were raped did not want to report to authority for fear of stigma. There are also many women who were raped before they were murdered. We don't really know how many women had been the victims of violence, do we?
42:15 No way is she getting that commentary from men on the street. I mean cmon, lets face reality. If you are overweight and look like something left over from a Mad Max movie, you are not getting that kind of calls on the street. Sorry I just do not objectively believe anything she said is true, unless she has proof.
+RabenWulf Another reason why she never likely got that commentary from men on the street is that a guy's buddies would be laughing at him for being attracted to such a bloated skanky girl. He would be immediately labeled a chub chaser among other things haha
@1:03:40 You heard it here folks. "Nice guys rape too." You can be a rapist and still a nice guy at the same time. What a weird world that lady must live in...
This claim that any well-meaning average guy must always be very cautious lest he unintentionally rape someone drives me batty! People have lost their minds!
Caroline Smyth She didn't say "guys who appear to be nice guys rape", she said "Not just misogynists rape. Nice guys rape too". It's an interesting statement as the implication is that you can be both a nice guy, not hate women and still go around raping women. Anyways, I briefly checked out your google profile and it seems you have shared some borderline anti-Jewish propaganda videos. Talking a lot about the 'International Bankers' and 'International Jewry' and so on. I am curious, are you aware that almost every major prominent feminist for the past 40 years of it's existence has been Jewish? i.imgur.com/62f9IOg.jpg #TheMoreYouKnow Check out jwa.org/feminism to see a full timeline and so on. If you think International Jewry is a real thing, then feminism would be a major component. I personally do not believe in "International Jewry". Something for you to consider though as someone who believes in it enough to share such videos on your google profile to the public.
Caroline Smyth That's cool and so do you support International Jewry funded organizations then such as 2nd wave feminism and more recently 3rd wave feminism with various Jewish celebrities like Anita Sarkessian and so forth?
When I did debate in school, I gained a great appreciation for the importance of definitions. For the competitive aspect, you control the contest if you can control the words that are used. *ALL* successful social movements employ this tool; therefore, never permit bad definitions to stand. For the intellectual aspect, without first agreeing on definitions, no discussion or debate is productive because you will merely talk past each other. Before arguing about statistics & impact, they should have hammered out what exactly a rape culture is, and THEN weigh evidence to see if reality matches the definition or not. In all, I was disappointed in the lack of new ground covered. The two arguing that there is a rape culture presented the same, tired arguments which IMO hold no water. But the other two presented their side's customary arguments, which clearly have not been persuasive. to date. There's a difference between a correct argument and a winning argument.
how its a rape culture when someone is acused of rape, he is treated like guild, even when it was proved a false claim, the person is still marked as a rapist,
1:17:00 "I know 21 people who have been raped" or maybe she should say "I know 21 people who claim they have been raped" or maybe "I'm going to make up a story where I know 21 people who have been raped"
i have to say, regardless of how annoyed i may get with one side or how relieved i get when the other introduces some reality, you guys are to be commended for holding these discussions and the audiences are as well for being as sober and intellectually involved as they are. Over here, we get complete and utter hysterics during a discussion like this. We get audience members screeching, "jigglypuffs" jiggling and panelists reduced to trying to yell over the madness. It's like a daycare center for toddlers. To hear this represented in such an adult way shouldn't be as refreshing as it is.
BlackBeltMonkeySong everyone, both males and females, have a right/entitlement to be treated with dignity and respect, unless they behave in a way that takes away someone else's dignity and respect.
Just look at the people these two women are quoting. Andrea Dworkin, an extremely radical feminist writer who was very open and public about her hate towards men and Jessica Valenti, an untalented feminist journalist for the guardian who has written pieces like "women don't hate men - but even if we did it wouldn't matter" and has proposed the idea of men being payed less to make up for the imaginary wage gap.
1:06:50 "one person is the defendant, the other is the victim" Well, no. One person is the defendant, and the other person is (at best) the accuser. Sometimes they aren't even the accuser, just another witness, and it's the government or another third party who is the accuser. Whether there is a victim, legally, is for the court to decide. It cannot start from that assumption.
"...even until a few years ago street harassment wasn't even considered a problem..." Well actually no, there have been debates about catcalling for years and years. Most people are and have always been of the mind that it is impolite and insensitive, but it is next to impossible to criminalise it and it is hard to even argue that it should be.
+DarthHugsALot Yea, it is not really impossible to criminalize it. India has done it.. Cat calling can land one in jail for a year. It reads "any other unwelcome physical, verbal or non-verbal conduct of sexual nature" Cat-calling or eve teasing is illegal..
MGTOW Indian And how widely is this law enforced? And in what fashion? Are Indian men being prosecuted for this? Are the receiving one year prison sentences? I would be genuinely interested to know.
+DarthHugsALot Out of 5103 cases of sexual harassment tried in court in 2014, 1760 were convicted while 3343 were acquitted.. With the statistics provided by the crime statistics bureau, all these cases come under sexual harassment.. Sexual harassment as per IPC section 354A Only protects women. Provisions are: 1)physical contact and advances involving unwelcome and explicit sexual overtures; or 2)a demand or request for sexual favors 3)making sexually coloured remarks 4)forcibly showing pornography; 5)any other unwelcome physical, verbal or non-verbal conduct of sexual nature. From the statistics provided, it is impossible to confirm how many of the cases filed come under the 5th limb of the law. Sexual harassment encompasses all these actions and it is only given as one heading. I have provided the link for the table. ncrb.gov.in/cii-2014/Table%205.6.pdf
1:01:51 She states that there are real consequences for women such as them choosing another way to go to work or wearing more moderate clothing out of discomfort, but these things just further prove Christina H. Summers correct. These women most probably do not do that, because they have actually faced some sort of danger, but because of the hysteria that is being created. The exaggeration and the overreaction are the core of this issue.
7:39 Rape jokes are just that. Jokes. I am fairly certain even she understands the difference "what someone thinks" and "what someone thinks is funny to say". You don't have to agree with it but to claim that that somehow is a detriment to the safety of others is completely ludicrous. Just because your sense of humor doesn't align with that of others doesn't make it that the others trivialize the real world issues of the subject at hand. Just completely insane to even suggest that. 8:59 So am I to understand that when I have gone on a fun date with a woman, after which she chooses to come home with me or allows me entrance to her home after which she chooses to take her top off... That is NOT consent? Are you kidding me? Then when do I have consent? Do I need to take my phone into the bedroom and have her state her name, her age, have her verify her unimpaired mental capacities and list off a series of activities that I am allowed to undertake? How has no-one in this video asked that question. What is consent and when do I have it if her taking all those actions out of her own free will are not at the very least indicative of consent? I don't see any other possible interpretations for it. She cannot possibly be serious about any of this. 1:01:12 This is just sheer, unadulterated fearmongering. Her statements just boil down to "You are not safe ever, people are out to get you and they are out to get you anywhere, any place and at any time.". I for one am certain that the picture she paints is completely delusional and devoid of any facts. Don't get me wrong: Like any other criminal behavior, rape is a serious matter that needs to be dealt with in a serious manner. But I cannot take her serious when she makes the statements she makes. She literally says there that any situation you, as a woman, are in with a man, pretty much regardless of relationship to said man, could turn into a rape at any given time (see 1:02:28 and 1:03:34). That is just absolutely insane. That woman is a detriment to any argument about the seriousness of rape. 1:05:33 Drunken, regrettable sex is now rape? Oh hell no. She made a decision and you are saying that a person can retrospectively retract consent (however the hell they got it in the first place, see the second paragraph). You CANNOT be serious about that. You cannot suggest disliking what you willingly did last night is cause for accusing someone of rape and thereby ripping that person's life about because you had regrets about what happened. It's called taking responsibility for your own actions. I also find it deeply troubling that the audience, on the whole, not only seems to be more knowledgeable on the subject but also seems to have a much healthier view on it than these so-called experts.
Girl at 1:17:35, "Do not try and tell me that an issue isn't a pandemic because of my anecdotal evidence from friends".... Grow upppppppppp young lady!
The crowd in this video surprised me with their nuance and diversity of questions; even more than the panelists. This is exactly why we have universities and Academia, to have debate of difficult subjects and through discourse to improve.
I do love when American arguments find there way to the UK and get smashed, imo. Another note is that I love how the older the woman is the more their argument makes sense.
We don't have rape culture we do however have victimology culture. Feminists encourage women to be powerful amazons charging forth equal to males in all things except of course in the one area where women's drive and strength are no match for the male so we have to justify legal wrangling with the natural dynamics of power in a courtship. On the one hand the modern woman is the sexual aggressor, wearing nothing, goading the male, while telling him "hands off." Then when the power transfers and the male closes the distance and he touches, kisses and has sex with her, suddenly she exercises her feminist prerogative and plays victim appealing to the public as a damsel in distress. Personally, except for stranger rape or things like incest, there's no way I would EVER convict a man for so called date rape. If there's such a thing at all , it is easily remedied by women taking some responsibility, especially with regards to drink, which destroys judgement.
Having finally listened to this whole thing I can definitively say that NONE of the people who are claiming that there's a "rape culture" supported their position. Kaitlynn kept calling it a "rape culture" when she was actually describing a "disrespect of women culture". Cat calling is not rape. Unwanted groping is not rape. Bottom line is this: The ONLY reason it's even CALLED a "rape" culture is so they can use that very loaded and emotionally charged term to make it seem worse than it is. They pack a LOT of other negative behaviors (such as the cat calling and unwanted groping) into the whole idea of RAPE... so as to artificially inflate the seriousness of those relatively MINOR behaviors.
I have to hand it to the feminists panelists. At least they didn't retreat to their safe-spaces when some of the audience members were questioning them.
+Jinji Tronic A financial waver because men's wants are far more important than their kids needs? Women are not there to shield men & men have no right to abandon their kids, just cos they r an inconvenience, kids lives matter! The carer of children needs to be able to afford to eat so they can have sufficient strength and good health to look after those children! Who d you think had it harder when Elam dumped his kids.. him or his ex wife? It's real hard work bringing up kids and its doubly hard for the carer when they have to do it alone. Men are not hard done by, men are not the victims, their children and ex partners are. Men the lazy fuckers want to get off their lazy arses and do half the work that women have to do, then they can call themselves victims! And kids who are completely abandoned by their fathers suffer terrible anguish.. for instance many will blame themselves and say why does my father hate me so much, he has never even sent me a birthday card! Just for a start, that is is not good for the esteem, mental health and well being of the child is it? Women perform 2/3 of the world’s work and earn 1/10 of the world’s income, according to U.N. statistics. We do not live in a misandrous culture. Men still rule all the important power positions in the public realm. If you doubt that, look around you. You “male rights” people are no different from those who say that white people are oppressed by blacks. It’s ludicrous. Grow THE FUCK up!
Jude 1:15) To execute judgement upon all , and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.
That rape conviction rates remain the same is not an indicator that rapes are going unpunished. It's an indicator that incidence of rape is fairly consistent. How is this not self-apparent, especially when other data supports it?
"The lack of spiritual values in society leads to a debasement of the attitudes which should govern the relationship between the sexes, with women being treated as no more that objects for sexual gratification and being denied the respect and courtesy to which all human beings are entitled." - Baha'i Universal House of Justice
1:02:00 - Same for males. If I wore anything besides a t-shirt and pants/jeans in my neighborhood, I'd be bashed up or robbed... harassed is just the beginning.
When I listen to academic scientists, economists, historians etc I come away thinking 'wow, I didn't realise how little I knew'. When I listen to professional feminists, I think 'wow, I doesn't realise how little you knew'.
Hilarious you can guess instantly before an audience member even speaks, which one agree's there is a rape culture and which one's don't. Hint hair colour, age and weight.
I have two sons in law school and college. From the jump, I told them to just keep it in their pants for their own protection and also to keep sex as something very special for someone you feel very special about. I also told them that women can be very mischievous and cruel and will do things like lie about being on birth control and getting pregnant or crying rape. (This is coming from their Momma, BTW). Sex is no longer a natural act. Rather, it is a political sledgehammer, and no matter what, the boy will always be the ones bludgeoned. Women achieved equal opportunity long ago. Now, in order to stay relevant (read: employed), these dragons have to keep inventing new things with which to stoke the flames of division. Two words: Duke Lacrosse
So... if I, as a man, get second thoughts after bringing a woman home... ...and if I then go - well, I had already taken my T-shirt off. Has the woman then committed rape on me? ...if not, why? ...and why did you bring up that dog-stupid example of gutter-logic at 3:30?
He's describing a situation (that he claims is an example of a common phenomenon of victims minimizing their own rapes) in which a woman points out that she took the perpetrator home and took her top of, as if that implies consent for anything that happens thereafter. So if you brought a woman home, you took your shirt off, and then she had sex with you without your consent, you would have been raped. She couldn't use your prior behavior as an excuse - you didn't imply consent by taking your shirt off.
David M The point is - I don't say anything about changing my mind until afterwards... and you still say it is rape. That is fucking retarded as shit. You are really diminishing the meaning of rape.
Yammo Yammamoto If you consented, it wasn't rape, no matter how you feel afterwards. Your taking off your shirt beforehand and your bad feeling afterward are irrelevant. All that matters is your consent in the moment. Are you assuming either I or the speaker believe otherwise?
David M It is obvious that the speaker does not think a woman could be the perpetrator against a man. Feminism argues that if both are drunk - it is ONLY the man's fault. It is the same idiotic marxist logic that begets the idea that black people can not be racist.
Yammo Yammamoto "It is obvious that the speaker does not think a woman could be the perpetrator against a man." - Possible, but irrelevant. He's describing women denying their own rapes. Plus, the guy's on your side.
I really liked the SJW who talked about being "catcalled" on her way home from the library. First of all, you weren't catcalled, you were mocked for being an unattractive, and knowing general human behaviour, most likely an obnoxious person as well. The only way I can imagine that event actually happening, is if she acted in a horrible manner which caused them to go "fuck it, I'mma ruin her day".
Ratings are overwhelmingly positive and Christina Hoff Sommers is on the panel. I think it's safe to assume that at least one person is going to be reasonable and level-headed. :)
This consent question is exhausting. You either have sex willingly or someone forces you against your will. Not really being enthusiastic about it, but participating anyway is not being forced. If you have decided at any point during intimacy that you don't want to continue, a partner who fails to read your mind and stop is not raping you. You're an adult, if you don't want to have sex, move away, say no, leave... If you're then forced, you've been raped.
The weaponization of Rape Accusations by Females is real. Feminist NEVER speak out against these false rape claims, yet claim to be fighting for “everyone’s rights” which is so clearly a LIE. But that’s what modern Feminism does - lie. Rape culture? Lie. Wage gap? Lie. Domestic violence stats? Lie. Custody of children? Lie. Goes on, and on, and on….
Why are there dozens of questions being asked by the audience without letting the panel answer them one at a time? By the time they're done the panelists are not able to remember every question. This is a strange concept.
The belief of a rape culture to me as an African American in academia has meant that I have to restrict what I wear, to avoid harassment and women being absolutely terrified of me when I am walking to the library. I have to overly control my emotions cause if I get excited it is easily seen as being aggressive. I have been objectified by women who I have had literally put their hand down my pants, without consent, to touch my business. Despite all this happening, due to a belief in rape culture, I am automatically seen by women, being a big black male, as someone who is highly likely to rape them, irregardless of my morals and beliefs. I know white men who have literally bragged about sexual conquest that are pretty dame near to rape, and getting away with it, suffer none of the biases views that I do on a daily basis. More than anything these perverts are quite popular among women and more easily trusted. Rape culture only enforces preconceived stereotypes of rape while ignoring the true contributing factors, which is why most rape still occurs.
+aaroncalgary give me a link to these statistics cause last I checked a majority of rapes where black on black or white on white, I'm sure you would love to by into the sterotypical hyper sexualized black guy running around rapping everybody
aaroncalgary Look at how you worded it to mean what you want. All you have shown is that black men rap white women, not that you are more likely to be raped by a black man in general. Here some more updated statistics look at them first, use some critical thinking, then give a real counter argument. www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2012/crime-in-the-u.s.-2012/tables/43tabledatadecoverviewpdf#disablemobile
When I moved house I had to change schools, some chick from class was into me, but I wasn't into her so I was as polite as possible turning her down and guess what. She got so angry and literally started hitting me, kicking me and kneeing me in the balls. I fell because getting hit in the nuts imobilizes us guys, she kept kicking me while I was down. Yeah, women clearly are the victims. I've never seen any guy get agressive with women when they're rejected. He might get mad, upset etc, but he just deals with it and leaves.
Talk about detracting from the seriousness of rape, I came across one guy who said he felt raped because someone yawned nearby him and made him want to yawn himself. That's incredible. A guy so sensitive that it is traumatic to him when somebody yawns? That is an extreme example, but there are a lot of other instances when a person claims they were raped because somebody looked at him or her funny, or said something the person didn't like.
7 років тому+1
"im sorry, its real", oh well, thats the end of that debate then.
the questionnner at 45:01 may have a point when she criticises hoff summers: she thinks that the rape hysteria might hurt women more than men because it makes women who swallow it paranoid and possibly unable to have normal relationships. it's, of course, much worse to be thrown out of university without due process than to become paranoid. but the number of paranoid women might be much higher.
11:55 If a woman has intercourse with a man and she doesn´t recognize it as rape, who are you to decide it is? If the pair have sex and none of them feel violated everything is in order, right? Sex is not illegal, RAPE is, and rape is if someone without consent forces themselves on another person. If the "victim" does not feel like they have been a victim they just had sex, nothing more nothing less. That is an incredibly stupid point she made. It is kinda the same as if i were to give a dollar bill to a beggar on the street and you classify that as theft because you wouldn´t give money to beggars.
Please correct if wrong, But a quick net search seems to indicate that what is being called rape on campus is "unwanted sexual behavior". The studies done are based on polls and not the same sort of statistic that the Bureau of Justice considers as rape. The wide discrepancy between the the 1 in 50 vs 1 in 5 can be understood in that context.
the blonde(didn't catch her name) was well out of her depth here, I think it was good she was there as she was bringing the voice of an ideologue to the debate but I don't think she really contributed anything other than that.
Andrea Dworking, radical feminist, said, "Men are sexually predatory in life; and women are sexually manipulative". She essentializes the dynamic of the two genders and frankly this is an observable fact in every day life. However one speaker (49:30) suggested that the fallout of "rape culture" is the retrospective reimagining of bad sexual experiences as rape. Nevertheless rape culture proponents (1:01:15) state that such things as "..street harrassment...rape jokes, are real.... and these practices have real harmful consequences for women". While this is true, this is not rape and "rape culture" is a conflation of such experiences to the degree of rape when no other thing currently exists to categorize it, and such conflation is creating treachery between the sexes. It would be far more useful to find accurate labels for the dynamic between women and men, and rape culture is not it. Instead, we have a culture of sexual predation and manipulation - male sexual predation which results in street harrassment, rape jokes, and female feelings of being threatened - and female sexual manipulation, causing such things as miscommunication that can have females feeling that men are acting entitled to their bodies and affection, or frustration in males about being used, or wearing sexually provocative clothing at Slut Walks yet denying that provocation even occurs or that women shouldn't be seen (by men) as sexual objects, etc. The culture of sexual predation and sexual manipulation has existed from the beginning of human history and is at least as old as prostitution, it is in fact part of the human condition. Rewriting it as "rape culture" is nothing more than hysteria and treachery.
im so tired of people complaining about the sexualization of women. these women CHOSE to be 'sexualized', they're allowed to say no. and whats wrong with looking and being provocative? these feminists are against slut shaming yet do it the most.
Ahh, that wonderful moment when I open up a video and see a bunch of Girlwriteswhat replies. We love you Karen, keep the logic coming, keep being awesome.
I am a woman. I was violently attacked 25 years ago. He didn't succeed but my blouse was torn, my arms were cut & I didn't get away until I pulled a gun & pointed it at him. I was paranoid & afraid for nearly a year but life goes on. Fact is, serious assaults are rare. Women need to be aware & take basic steps to assure our safety but daily paranoia isn't healthy. Having a friend watch your drink, or paying attention to your surroundings to reduce your chance of being a victim isn't oppressive. Men have to pay attention, men have to take basic precautions against crime, just like women do. We may be subjected to different types of crime but watching out for yourself, keeping yourself safe is part of being alive. The key is to be realistic about balancing risk & precautions. It's reasonable to have someone watch your drink, it's reasonable to be alert while walking in a dark parking lot. Take minor precautions for something that's a low risk, then enjoy your life & don't dwell on it. All these feminists saying 1 in 4 or 1 in 5 women are raped is making young women paranoid. You have a bunch of young women, that have never been attacked, running around afraid & paranoid, exactly like I was for the first 6 months after I was attacked. You can't live in that fear long term. Feminists that are exaggerating the numbers are making thousands & thousands of young women paranoid unnecessarily. If a young woman believes we live in a rape culture they can't enjoy their lives. They can't balance risk & precaution in an appropriate manner. They are afraid & become bitter & there is no reason for that. I think feminists pushing the rape culture thing are causing far more harm than good.
2Corinthians 5:10) For we must all appear before the judgement seat of Christ ; that every one may receive the things done in his body , according to that he hath done , whether it be good or bad.
Great discussion. Each speaker and audience member was able to get their point across in a fair and succinct manner throughout, which was remarkable considering the nature of the topic. This type of discussion had a very honest, very British feel to it imo. Democracy and free speech at its finest.
What is interesting from the audience is that there are some that see and experience rape culture everywhere they look, and some in the audience where this is simply not part of their lived experience. That to me suggests it's not a cultural phenomena, if it was cultural we all generally would experience it in the same way because that is what culture is.
The I, the me, the self, the so-called True Self or Higher Self, invents the illusion of division and separation, which breeds conflict, violence, and suffering. Therefore, no Relationship.
The second person to speak, the blonde woman... she kept on saying things like "Maybe I want to say..." and "Maybe I think that..." What an interesting way to phrase things. She DOES think these things, and she DOES want to say these things... but she couches her thoughts in these "maybes"... this, I think, gives us some insight into her mind and how it works.
As for consent, I don't think it has any place in law regarding sexual assault. In other places in law, consent is easy to determine because it's written down, or because the act is inherently negative (e.g. fighting). In sexual assault, the act is inherently positive and often spontaneous, and can involve a variety of elements. So consent becomes very murky, and can change retroactively after the act, as far as anyone in the courtroom knows. Given that the punishment (legal and social) for sexual assault is so severe, we should be focused entirely on actual harm, not on consent.
"Sexualized banter" is part of "rape culture"? Fucking hell! Sexualized banter is flirtation. It's a way of gauging whether someone you're attracted to reciprocates your feelings before risking rejection by asking this person out. How is flirtation in any way commensurate with a "rape culture"?
@00:59:25 In response to this: One thing I know to be true about this place -we live among others both like ourselves and less like ourselves . Beyond this there are PREDATORS. Predators are humanesque beings. They look like us and sound like us but definitively do not feel like us. Predators prey on the vulnerable. Should anything present themselves as vulnerable a predator will gravitate towards that person or animal -Life Source. Presenting oneself as vulnerable be it through actions or believing yourself presently or potentially a "victim" or embracing the position of lesser capable(axon, responsibility, agency, etc.) being makes you vulnerable. This presentation invites predators to your personal party. Rape is rape. It's not a vagary. Consent is basic. People are PREDATORS. Sometimes they present as the perpetrator and sometimes they present themselves as the victim. Regardless, PREDATORS are to be protected full on. Ex: The Rolling Stone author who presented the "gangrape" Virginia University article Sabrina what's her face -she's a PREDATOR. I think it's Sabrina E-. Ruiner of lives.
in the west we don't celebrate rape, we do not allow rape,we punish rapists by law and culturally and these show we are NOT a rape culture and rape culture is the opposite
wow, the best controversal discussion i've seen yet. and then even in a civilized way, im positively speechless :) love the arguments of Christina Sommers and some questions from the audience, i.e. raped men, forcing a panic on "all" women, etc.
49:23: Nailed it. We don't have enough sex and not with enough different people, to be able to learn from experience and learn lettting go of insecurities, inhibitions and years of indoctrination and enjoy the best thing in your life. I'm pleasantly surpriced about the openness in this debate.
33:22: Women live on a "rape schedule"? All women? Shit, I'm running awfully late, since the constant awareness that I could be raped at any moment isn't something I've been able to fit into my day. And I'm speaking as someone who's been assaulted.
If Christina Hoff Sommers is correct about the statistics and the theory that propagate this "rape culture" paradigm as valid, then would it not be this constant rhetoric that rape IS a daily part of life that is promoting an unnecessary paranoia in some women?
It seems to be only women who believe in this "rape culture" who are obsessively anxious about being raped. If this constant level of anxiety is unreasonable and detached from reality, and is partly the result of this "rape culture" narrative, then the people propagating the narrative are arguably abusing and terrorizing women.
+karen straughan #rekt
+karen straughan hey, the 1 in 5 is so ironclad they won't bother defending it, one in 50, one in 4, same shit apparently , rape still happens and no woman is safe. In fact these standards guarantee that women will never be safe because rape will always happen, that's like a blank check for eternal victimhood.
+Potem1917 I remember on the UN's Broadband commission on "cyber violence against women and girls", one panelist said that violence against women was still a global epidemic because it still happens in every single country.
Let's parse that. Let's say that in every country, 1 woman is assaulted by someone at some point in her life. Still a global epidemic according to this panelist.
Can anyone imagine an entire country of people where there was not a single incident of someone punching a man in the face over some slight or disagreement? Where there was not a single murder of a man? Where there was not a single young man shoved into a locker by some asshole at school? Where no woman every slapped a man out of jealousy? Where there was NO violence against men whatsoever? Just one country, let alone a majority, or all of them?
Can anyone even wrap their heads around something like that?
And yet somehow, if there is at least one woman in every country who's been pushed on the subway, or had her arm twisted by her boyfriend, violence against women will remain a global epidemic.
What feminists seem to want is for women to become a class of untouchables.
+karen straughan Rantzerker this shit!
+karen straughan we should start protesting at feminist conferences telling them to stop spreading rape culture.
I finally figured it out. Rape culture is anything that makes a female feel upset.
Zero Mega you're right! This is why air conditioning oppresses them as well. Climate change is rape culture. A muggy hot day is a rape day.
Climate change is definitely rape culture. Now you're at the heart of the beast! Being p-i-s-s-y about anything guys do that is shitty. It's ultimate extreme is radical overthrow of Civilization.
Zero Mega that and where the terms rape and victim blaming are being desensitised with regret.
34:00 Consent is more complicated than she's saying here, at least in the legal sense.
I consent to my bank taking an NSF fee if I bounce a check, but I certainly wouldn't have consented to that if they didn't require it on the contract. I can't say my consent was coerced because they made it a condition of their contract, or that without my consent to it they would have denied me service. In fact, I was required to initial that part of the contract so that I can't come back later and say they didn't inform me of what I was signing.
My bank decides they're willing to give me a car loan, but at 18%. I would never consent to that if I didn't have to (if they were willing to offer me a lower rate), nor would I freely offer to pay them 18% out of the goodness of my heart. Can I claim I was coerced because they made that high rate a condition of doing business with me? You know, because I was stuck between a rock and a hard place, and didn't have any other options if I wanted to get that car? What if I really needed that car? Should I feel more coerced to accept terms that I wouldn't have agreed to if I didn't have to?
Now consider a couple. The man says, "If you don't have sex with me regularly, then I can't be in this relationship with you." The woman then has sex with him. Did she consent? Feminists would probably say no. Has she been coerced? Feminists would probably say yes.
This is because feminists conflate the terms "didn't want to" with "didn't agree to." And, increasingly, they are demonizing men for the sin of having preferences, let alone requirements, when it comes to women and sex.
Just as my bank would say, "If this NSF fee is unacceptable to you, you're free to go to another bank, or to keep your money in a coffee can in the pantry," or, "If this interest rate is unacceptable to you, you're free buy a jalopy or even take the bus," that boyfriend should be free to say, "Sex is part of the deal for me. If my requirement for regular sex is unacceptable to you, you're free to find another boyfriend or be single."
This should be the case whether the woman is dependent on him for important things (like shelter, money or whatever) that he provides to her or not, just as the bank is not coercing me just because I really, really, really need that car, or just because the bank is a powerful entity while I'm just some shmoe with no bargaining power.
You can call him a dickbag, and I think there are dickbags whose behavior should be stigmatized or discouraged socially, but if sexual consent law is to continue to be based on contract law, which is, I think, the only coherent way to legally think of it, then it has to be treated like a contract.
You are definitely the smartest woman out there Karen. No joke. I've listened to hours of you and you are extremely intelligent.
I second that. I love your videos Karen. You have a very clear way of presenting your ideas and analyses of some quite complicated topics. I'm so glad you are on our side... the side of logic and reasoned debate. Thank you.
That’s sort of takes all the joy out of a relationship...sex, money, shelter, and most importantly love..are freely given and it is a choice. If you aren’t satisfied with the sex in the relationship, it isn’t frequent enough or good enough, you can either talk about it, or break up. You’d be better off finding a woman who has the same sex drive as you, who genuinely wants to give back out of her own free will, not because of a contract. That’s cant be much of a turn on for either party, for one having its having choice and free will taken out of the dynamic, and for the other to feel like their partner views sex with you as if it were an oppressive job that has to be done out of some consenting obligation, not out of desire. They only signed a contract with you because they felt they didn’t have a better option and you’re just their meal ticket. Real, loving relationships where both parties are committed to giving to one another and meeting each other’s needs out of love and respect is a contract of the heart. Who in their right mind would want a relationship that felt like a car sale? Jesus... Karen...sweetie, I just don’t know about you sometimes. But I hope you got a good deal on a nice Subaru.
Omg for real a feminist literally attacked a 15 yo boy for his preferences in women.
Also the idea that begging someone for sex until they say yes is coercion which it isn't cause when you beg someone for something you're giving someone the power to say yes or no.
A man saying hi is not rape culture it isn't even harassment it is being friendly to other people in your neighborhood.
Yip
Amanda Browm Ofcourse its ok to say hi. What's not ok, and the point she was making, was that if a woman fails to say hi back, she often gets verbally abused. I know that to be very true indeed!
Says you, with no evidence what so ever.
99IronDuke Experience is a valuable form of evidence. As millions of women have expressed the same experience, i'd call that pretty convincing evidence.
Once again no facts and no sources, just an assertion. typical feminist nonsense.
1:27:00: "Who are you people to speak on behalf of all women?"
Brava.
+karen straughan woops, that was at about 45 minutes in.
+karen straughan
It was a glorious moment. I literally applauded.
+karen straughan funny .. was applauding myself, cheering up for a moment :D
+karen straughan
I loved that and I also love how the crowd reacted.
That blue haired woman is a walking stereotype. And she uses every single feminist stereotype to try make her point. *head desk*=
+Jinji Tronic As if anyone in their right mind would cat call that ....
All Hail Chael exactly!
Guy gets kicked in the balls by his girlfriend, crowd laughs and thinks it's funny. (Movies love using this)
Guy says hey beautiful to a girl, it's borderline sexual assault or violent.
As an older feminist (with distinct leanings towards Sommers' stances) I want to urge young women to shed the "rape culture" state of mind. If you argue yourselves into a permanent state of anxiety walking around expecting aggressions on every corner you will never get to leading a good life. You will miss out on so much. Our rallying cry was "Women take back the night" and it was great fun. Try it one time.
Not once in the entire discussion did those claiming that sexualised culture leads to rape provide any evidence for this link.
If you look at countries worldwide, the more sexualised imagery in mainstream culture tends to actually correlate with women being treated better. That's not necessarily causation either but it does cast doubt on their theories.
karen straughan
Hi karen!
+gary wood I was involved in a debate with several feminists on a Facebook page and I noticed that they also consistently failed to prove the correlation between their first and second premises, rendering their own conclusions invalid. It's shocking the amount of people who insisted that I was wrong and 'stubborn' to demand actual evidence.
i agree. countries that bans women being sexualised in media tend to have more patriarchy issue.
Gordon what are you doing on UA-cam?? Don't you have carts to push?
Lol, a feminist using the 1 in 4 stat. Just lol. All credibility lost in that moment.
I'm sure based mom will be dropping truth bombs all over that crap :D
ua-cam.com/video/Rc_E9JtM_ss/v-deo.html
48:21: "What affect does this idea that women cannot give consent have on the legal system in general?"
Easy: women unable to sign contracts without a guardian present.
At 55:00, can Christina H. Sommers comment on why the police have not tested rape kits with years of back log and why are there so few cases even get to trial? From what I read there are only few percentage of men who got convicted. Not to mention that many of the women who were raped did not want to report to authority for fear of stigma. There are also many women who were raped before they were murdered. We don't really know how many women had been the victims of violence, do we?
42:15 No way is she getting that commentary from men on the street. I mean cmon, lets face reality. If you are overweight and look like something left over from a Mad Max movie, you are not getting that kind of calls on the street. Sorry I just do not objectively believe anything she said is true, unless she has proof.
+The Procrastination King of Nerds ...and Poe's Law is in full effect. xD
+RabenWulf Another reason why she never likely got that commentary from men on the street is that a guy's buddies would be laughing at him for being attracted to such a bloated skanky girl. He would be immediately labeled a chub chaser among other things haha
+RabenWulf she was projecting her darkest sexual desires lulz
Dani Deli For sure, you know there is a much used copy of 'Shades of Grey' on her nightstand. That book didn't sell to a male demographic.
+RabenWulf
Do you think that or do you know that?
@1:03:40 You heard it here folks. "Nice guys rape too." You can be a rapist and still a nice guy at the same time. What a weird world that lady must live in...
This claim that any well-meaning average guy must always be very cautious lest he unintentionally rape someone drives me batty! People have lost their minds!
Math Made Fun No, you're just blind to the experience of others. I personally know three men who appear to be very nice guys, and yet they have raped.
Caroline Smyth She didn't say "guys who appear to be nice guys rape", she said "Not just misogynists rape. Nice guys rape too". It's an interesting statement as the implication is that you can be both a nice guy, not hate women and still go around raping women.
Anyways, I briefly checked out your google profile and it seems you have shared some borderline anti-Jewish propaganda videos. Talking a lot about the 'International Bankers' and 'International Jewry' and so on.
I am curious, are you aware that almost every major prominent feminist for the past 40 years of it's existence has been Jewish?
i.imgur.com/62f9IOg.jpg
#TheMoreYouKnow Check out jwa.org/feminism to see a full timeline and so on. If you think International Jewry is a real thing, then feminism would be a major component. I personally do not believe in "International Jewry". Something for you to consider though as someone who believes in it enough to share such videos on your google profile to the public.
Math Made Fun yes, International Jewry co-opted feminism of the 60's. Infact they funded it.
Caroline Smyth That's cool and so do you support International Jewry funded organizations then such as 2nd wave feminism and more recently 3rd wave feminism with various Jewish celebrities like Anita Sarkessian and so forth?
I love you Mrs. Sommers!!!
When it comes to the jokes.....there are 911 jokes one of the worst things to happen in the United States. Thats how humans cope with tragedy
When I did debate in school, I gained a great appreciation for the importance of definitions. For the competitive aspect, you control the contest if you can control the words that are used. *ALL* successful social movements employ this tool; therefore, never permit bad definitions to stand.
For the intellectual aspect, without first agreeing on definitions, no discussion or debate is productive because you will merely talk past each other. Before arguing about statistics & impact, they should have hammered out what exactly a rape culture is, and THEN weigh evidence to see if reality matches the definition or not.
In all, I was disappointed in the lack of new ground covered. The two arguing that there is a rape culture presented the same, tired arguments which IMO hold no water. But the other two presented their side's customary arguments, which clearly have not been persuasive. to date. There's a difference between a correct argument and a winning argument.
how its a rape culture when someone is acused of rape, he is treated like guild, even when it was proved a false claim, the person is still marked as a rapist,
That first woman lost me at "male entitlement". as if men never feel like they have to jump through hoops to earn female acceptance.
1:17:00 "I know 21 people who have been raped" or maybe she should say "I know 21 people who claim they have been raped" or maybe "I'm going to make up a story where I know 21 people who have been raped"
i have to say, regardless of how annoyed i may get with one side or how relieved i get when the other introduces some reality, you guys are to be commended for holding these discussions and the audiences are as well for being as sober and intellectually involved as they are.
Over here, we get complete and utter hysterics during a discussion like this. We get audience members screeching, "jigglypuffs" jiggling and panelists reduced to trying to yell over the madness. It's like a daycare center for toddlers. To hear this represented in such an adult way shouldn't be as refreshing as it is.
All this talk about male entitlement, and we can bet our bottom dollar that this woman never bothered to consider her own female entitlement.
Which woman?
The blond at the beginning.
BlackBeltMonkeySong everyone, both males and females, have a right/entitlement to be treated with dignity and respect, unless they behave in a way that takes away someone else's dignity and respect.
Indeed, and there is no respect or dignity in feminism.
BlackBeltMonkeySong feminism includes a wide range of women, men and views, so I'll have to disagree with you there.
Just look at the people these two women are quoting. Andrea Dworkin, an extremely radical feminist writer who was very open and public about her hate towards men and Jessica Valenti, an untalented feminist journalist for the guardian who has written pieces like "women don't hate men - but even if we did it wouldn't matter" and has proposed the idea of men being payed less to make up for the imaginary wage gap.
1:06:50 "one person is the defendant, the other is the victim"
Well, no. One person is the defendant, and the other person is (at best) the accuser. Sometimes they aren't even the accuser, just another witness, and it's the government or another third party who is the accuser.
Whether there is a victim, legally, is for the court to decide. It cannot start from that assumption.
"...even until a few years ago street harassment wasn't even considered a problem..." Well actually no, there have been debates about catcalling for years and years. Most people are and have always been of the mind that it is impolite and insensitive, but it is next to impossible to criminalise it and it is hard to even argue that it should be.
+DarthHugsALot Yep. That is the trivialization of rape. Catcalling is rude, but then they attempt to lump it into some nebulous "rape culture".
+DarthHugsALot Yea, it is not really impossible to criminalize it. India has done it.. Cat calling can land one in jail for a year. It reads "any other unwelcome physical, verbal or non-verbal conduct of sexual nature" Cat-calling or eve teasing is illegal..
MGTOW Indian And how widely is this law enforced? And in what fashion? Are Indian men being prosecuted for this? Are the receiving one year prison sentences? I would be genuinely interested to know.
+DarthHugsALot Out of 5103 cases of sexual harassment tried in court in 2014, 1760 were convicted while 3343 were acquitted.. With the statistics provided by the crime statistics bureau, all these cases come under sexual harassment.. Sexual harassment as per IPC section 354A
Only protects women. Provisions are:
1)physical contact and advances involving unwelcome and explicit sexual overtures; or
2)a demand or request for sexual favors
3)making sexually coloured remarks
4)forcibly showing pornography;
5)any other unwelcome physical, verbal or non-verbal conduct of sexual nature.
From the statistics provided, it is impossible to confirm how many of the cases filed come under the 5th limb of the law. Sexual harassment encompasses all these actions and it is only given as one heading. I have provided the link for the table.
ncrb.gov.in/cii-2014/Table%205.6.pdf
MGTOW Indian Thanks you.
1:01:51 She states that there are real consequences for women such as them choosing another way to go to work or wearing more moderate clothing out of discomfort, but these things just further prove Christina H. Summers correct. These women most probably do not do that, because they have actually faced some sort of danger, but because of the hysteria that is being created. The exaggeration and the overreaction are the core of this issue.
Can we get a little more heavy breathing into the mic on the next video?
Thanks.
Rape culture bro.
+LOL Cool J Damn it, you made me notice.
Thank you... it was so fucking annoying.
The Hof absolutely crushes it with that closing remark
7:39 Rape jokes are just that. Jokes. I am fairly certain even she understands the difference "what someone thinks" and "what someone thinks is funny to say". You don't have to agree with it but to claim that that somehow is a detriment to the safety of others is completely ludicrous. Just because your sense of humor doesn't align with that of others doesn't make it that the others trivialize the real world issues of the subject at hand. Just completely insane to even suggest that.
8:59 So am I to understand that when I have gone on a fun date with a woman, after which she chooses to come home with me or allows me entrance to her home after which she chooses to take her top off... That is NOT consent? Are you kidding me? Then when do I have consent? Do I need to take my phone into the bedroom and have her state her name, her age, have her verify her unimpaired mental capacities and list off a series of activities that I am allowed to undertake? How has no-one in this video asked that question. What is consent and when do I have it if her taking all those actions out of her own free will are not at the very least indicative of consent? I don't see any other possible interpretations for it. She cannot possibly be serious about any of this.
1:01:12 This is just sheer, unadulterated fearmongering. Her statements just boil down to "You are not safe ever, people are out to get you and they are out to get you anywhere, any place and at any time.". I for one am certain that the picture she paints is completely delusional and devoid of any facts. Don't get me wrong: Like any other criminal behavior, rape is a serious matter that needs to be dealt with in a serious manner. But I cannot take her serious when she makes the statements she makes. She literally says there that any situation you, as a woman, are in with a man, pretty much regardless of relationship to said man, could turn into a rape at any given time (see 1:02:28 and 1:03:34). That is just absolutely insane. That woman is a detriment to any argument about the seriousness of rape.
1:05:33 Drunken, regrettable sex is now rape? Oh hell no. She made a decision and you are saying that a person can retrospectively retract consent (however the hell they got it in the first place, see the second paragraph). You CANNOT be serious about that. You cannot suggest disliking what you willingly did last night is cause for accusing someone of rape and thereby ripping that person's life about because you had regrets about what happened. It's called taking responsibility for your own actions.
I also find it deeply troubling that the audience, on the whole, not only seems to be more knowledgeable on the subject but also seems to have a much healthier view on it than these so-called experts.
Girl at 1:17:35, "Do not try and tell me that an issue isn't a pandemic because of my anecdotal evidence from friends".... Grow upppppppppp young lady!
Second Speaker: "I think rape culture has to do with all these other things that in no way classify as rape." Anyone have a face-palm meme?
The crowd in this video surprised me with their nuance and diversity of questions; even more than the panelists. This is exactly why we have universities and Academia, to have debate of difficult subjects and through discourse to improve.
I find it rather telling that it is the older women in this audience who are the ones that drop a ton of truth bombs all over the place.
I do love when American arguments find there way to the UK and get smashed, imo. Another note is that I love how the older the woman is the more their argument makes sense.
We don't have rape culture we do however have victimology culture. Feminists encourage women to be powerful amazons charging forth equal to males in all things except of course in the one area where women's drive and strength are no match for the male so we have to justify legal wrangling with the natural dynamics of power in a courtship. On the one hand the modern woman is the sexual aggressor, wearing nothing, goading the male, while telling him "hands off." Then when the power transfers and the male closes the distance and he touches, kisses and has sex with her, suddenly she exercises her feminist prerogative and plays victim appealing to the public as a damsel in distress. Personally, except for stranger rape or things like incest, there's no way I would EVER convict a man for so called date rape. If there's such a thing at all , it is easily remedied by women taking some responsibility, especially with regards to drink, which destroys judgement.
Two girls in the audience who agreed that we live in a rape culture both had blue hair! What are the odds?
Having finally listened to this whole thing I can definitively say that NONE of the people who are claiming that there's a "rape culture" supported their position. Kaitlynn kept calling it a "rape culture" when she was actually describing a "disrespect of women culture". Cat calling is not rape. Unwanted groping is not rape.
Bottom line is this: The ONLY reason it's even CALLED a "rape" culture is so they can use that very loaded and emotionally charged term to make it seem worse than it is. They pack a LOT of other negative behaviors (such as the cat calling and unwanted groping) into the whole idea of RAPE... so as to artificially inflate the seriousness of those relatively MINOR behaviors.
As soon as I saw Christina Hoff Summers on the panel I breathed a sigh of relief, knowing that at least some adult supervision would be present.
I have to hand it to the feminists panelists. At least they didn't retreat to their safe-spaces when some of the audience members were questioning them.
I'm really happy to see so many strong and opinionated women and girls in the crowd who argue and counterclaim with rationality.
feminist: nice guys rape, too! (1:03:30)
everyone with a brain: i think not.
do they mention female perpetrators?
33:10 ..... cites jessica valenti
+MrWazzup987 Confirmed misandry :D
+Jinji Tronic
MRA say men shouldn't be forced to fund kids they don't want!
MRA answer to solve the problem of pregnant women
Kill the Women
mylampstand what the actual fuck are you on about?
A financial waiver is what they are after. Not death of the child or mother.
+Jinji Tronic
A financial waver because men's wants are far more important than their kids needs?
Women are not there to shield men & men have no right to abandon their kids, just cos they r an inconvenience,
kids lives matter!
The carer of children needs to be able to afford to eat so they can have sufficient strength and good health to look after those children!
Who d you think had it harder when Elam dumped his kids.. him or his ex wife?
It's real hard work bringing up kids and its doubly hard for the carer when they have to do it alone.
Men are not hard done by, men are not the victims, their children and ex partners are.
Men the lazy fuckers want to get off their lazy arses and do half the work that women have to do, then they can call themselves victims!
And kids who are completely abandoned by their fathers suffer terrible anguish.. for instance many will blame themselves and say
why does my father hate me so much, he has never even sent me a birthday card!
Just for a start, that is is not good for the esteem, mental health and well being of the child is it?
Women perform 2/3 of the world’s work and earn 1/10 of the world’s income, according to U.N. statistics. We do not live in a misandrous culture. Men still rule all the important power positions in the public realm.
If you doubt that, look around you. You “male rights” people are no different from those who say that white people are oppressed by blacks. It’s ludicrous. Grow THE FUCK up!
mylampstand go fuck yourself you whiny little cry baby.
Jude 1:15) To execute judgement upon all , and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.
That rape conviction rates remain the same is not an indicator that rapes are going unpunished. It's an indicator that incidence of rape is fairly consistent. How is this not self-apparent, especially when other data supports it?
"The lack of spiritual values in society leads to a debasement of the attitudes which should govern the relationship between the sexes, with women being treated as no more that objects for sexual gratification and being denied the respect and courtesy to which all human beings are entitled."
- Baha'i Universal House of Justice
What about the men being treated as objects [machines for working and exploitation]?
oh that someone breathing through his nose onto the mic, it's awful, it's worst than rape, I feel violated!!
1:02:00 - Same for males. If I wore anything besides a t-shirt and pants/jeans in my neighborhood, I'd be bashed up or robbed... harassed is just the beginning.
How many of those women read and see the movies about 50 shades of grey.......
When I listen to academic scientists, economists, historians etc I come away thinking 'wow, I didn't realise how little I knew'. When I listen to professional feminists, I think 'wow, I doesn't realise how little you knew'.
Hilarious you can guess instantly before an audience member even speaks, which one agree's there is a rape culture and which one's don't. Hint hair colour, age and weight.
I have two sons in law school and college. From the jump, I told them to just keep it in their pants for their own protection and also to keep sex as something very special for someone you feel very special about. I also told them that women can be very mischievous and cruel and will do things like lie about being on birth control and getting pregnant or crying rape. (This is coming from their Momma, BTW).
Sex is no longer a natural act. Rather, it is a political sledgehammer, and no matter what, the boy will always be the ones bludgeoned.
Women achieved equal opportunity long ago. Now, in order to stay relevant (read: employed), these dragons have to keep inventing new things with which to stoke the flames of division.
Two words:
Duke Lacrosse
So... if I, as a man, get second thoughts after bringing a woman home...
...and if I then go - well, I had already taken my T-shirt off.
Has the woman then committed rape on me?
...if not, why? ...and why did you bring up that dog-stupid example of gutter-logic at 3:30?
He's describing a situation (that he claims is an example of a common phenomenon of victims minimizing their own rapes) in which a woman points out that she took the perpetrator home and took her top of, as if that implies consent for anything that happens thereafter.
So if you brought a woman home, you took your shirt off, and then she had sex with you without your consent, you would have been raped. She couldn't use your prior behavior as an excuse - you didn't imply consent by taking your shirt off.
David M
The point is - I don't say anything about changing my mind until afterwards... and you still say it is rape. That is fucking retarded as shit. You are really diminishing the meaning of rape.
Yammo Yammamoto If you consented, it wasn't rape, no matter how you feel afterwards. Your taking off your shirt beforehand and your bad feeling afterward are irrelevant. All that matters is your consent in the moment. Are you assuming either I or the speaker believe otherwise?
David M
It is obvious that the speaker does not think a woman could be the perpetrator against a man. Feminism argues that if both are drunk - it is ONLY the man's fault. It is the same idiotic marxist logic that begets the idea that black people can not be racist.
Yammo Yammamoto "It is obvious that the speaker does not think a woman could be the perpetrator against a man." - Possible, but irrelevant. He's describing women denying their own rapes. Plus, the guy's on your side.
I really liked the SJW who talked about being "catcalled" on her way home from the library. First of all, you weren't catcalled, you were mocked for being an unattractive, and knowing general human behaviour, most likely an obnoxious person as well. The only way I can imagine that event actually happening, is if she acted in a horrible manner which caused them to go "fuck it, I'mma ruin her day".
8:15 holy shit she is insane
19:39 If you factor in prison statistics men are more likely to be raped than women.
Ratings are overwhelmingly positive and Christina Hoff Sommers is on the panel. I think it's safe to assume that at least one person is going to be reasonable and level-headed. :)
42:30 Which uni is that? Royal education center of Saudi Arabia?
Urgh! The person breathing down the mic. Shut up!
1:24:45 - A great Profound statement on the Truth of what is really going on here. Great conclusive statement.
This consent question is exhausting. You either have sex willingly or someone forces you against your will.
Not really being enthusiastic about it, but participating anyway is not being forced.
If you have decided at any point during intimacy that you don't want to continue, a partner who fails to read your mind and stop is not raping you.
You're an adult, if you don't want to have sex, move away, say no, leave... If you're then forced, you've been raped.
The weaponization of Rape Accusations by Females is real. Feminist NEVER speak out against these false rape claims, yet claim to be fighting for “everyone’s rights” which is so clearly a LIE. But that’s what modern Feminism does - lie. Rape culture? Lie. Wage gap? Lie. Domestic violence stats? Lie. Custody of children? Lie. Goes on, and on, and on….
Why are there dozens of questions being asked by the audience without letting the panel answer them one at a time? By the time they're done the panelists are not able to remember every question. This is a strange concept.
how do you educate a rapist?.....please, do tell.......
Some of the audience members would have made far more intelligent and thoughtful panelists than the actual panelists.
The myth is menacing.
The belief of a rape culture to me as an African American in academia has meant that I have to restrict what I wear, to avoid harassment and women being absolutely terrified of me when I am walking to the library. I have to overly control my emotions cause if I get excited it is easily seen as being aggressive. I have been objectified by women who I have had literally put their hand down my pants, without consent, to touch my business. Despite all this happening, due to a belief in rape culture, I am automatically seen by women, being a big black male, as someone who is highly likely to rape them, irregardless of my morals and beliefs. I know white men who have literally bragged about sexual conquest that are pretty dame near to rape, and getting away with it, suffer none of the biases views that I do on a daily basis. More than anything these perverts are quite popular among women and more easily trusted.
Rape culture only enforces preconceived stereotypes of rape while ignoring the true contributing factors, which is why most rape still occurs.
+aaroncalgary give me a link to these statistics cause last I checked a majority of rapes where black on black or white on white, I'm sure you would love to by into the sterotypical hyper sexualized black guy running around rapping everybody
I see, you haven't been apprehended yet.
+aaroncalgary well believe it or not I and all the other African Americans I know are not a rapist
Here's the source.
archive.frontpagemag.com/readArticle.aspx?ARTID=26368
aaroncalgary Look at how you worded it to mean what you want. All you have shown is that black men rap white women, not that you are more likely to be raped by a black man in general. Here some more updated statistics look at them first, use some critical thinking, then give a real counter argument. www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2012/crime-in-the-u.s.-2012/tables/43tabledatadecoverviewpdf#disablemobile
myth
+Its oDizzle jew
When I moved house I had to change schools, some chick from class was into me, but I wasn't into her so I was as polite as possible turning her down and guess what. She got so angry and literally started hitting me, kicking me and kneeing me in the balls. I fell because getting hit in the nuts imobilizes us guys, she kept kicking me while I was down.
Yeah, women clearly are the victims. I've never seen any guy get agressive with women when they're rejected. He might get mad, upset etc, but he just deals with it and leaves.
Why are women talking about how men perceive rape, and why they believe men feel entitled to sex?...
Very good debate. Fair representations of both sides, good questions and comments from the audience.
An open debate is a great debate
Talk about detracting from the seriousness of rape, I came across one guy who said he felt raped because someone yawned nearby him and made him want to yawn himself. That's incredible. A guy so sensitive that it is traumatic to him when somebody yawns? That is an extreme example, but there are a lot of other instances when a person claims they were raped because somebody looked at him or her funny, or said something the person didn't like.
"im sorry, its real", oh well, thats the end of that debate then.
the questionnner at 45:01 may have a point when she criticises hoff summers: she thinks that the rape hysteria might hurt women more than men because it makes women who swallow it paranoid and possibly unable to have normal relationships.
it's, of course, much worse to be thrown out of university without due process than to become paranoid. but the number of paranoid women might be much higher.
11:55 If a woman has intercourse with a man and she doesn´t recognize it as rape, who are you to decide it is? If the pair have sex and none of them feel violated everything is in order, right? Sex is not illegal, RAPE is, and rape is if someone without consent forces themselves on another person. If the "victim" does not feel like they have been a victim they just had sex, nothing more nothing less. That is an incredibly stupid point she made. It is kinda the same as if i were to give a dollar bill to a beggar on the street and you classify that as theft because you wouldn´t give money to beggars.
Please correct if wrong, But a quick net search seems to indicate that what is being called rape on campus is "unwanted sexual behavior". The studies done are based on polls and not the same sort of statistic that the Bureau of Justice considers as rape. The wide discrepancy between the the 1 in 50 vs 1 in 5 can be understood in that context.
the blonde(didn't catch her name) was well out of her depth here, I think it was good she was there as she was bringing the voice of an ideologue to the debate but I don't think she really contributed anything other than that.
Andrea Dworking, radical feminist, said, "Men are sexually predatory in life; and women are sexually manipulative".
She essentializes the dynamic of the two genders and frankly this is an observable fact in every day life.
However one speaker (49:30) suggested that the fallout of "rape culture" is the retrospective reimagining of bad sexual experiences as rape. Nevertheless rape culture proponents (1:01:15) state that such things as "..street harrassment...rape jokes, are real.... and these practices have real harmful consequences for women". While this is true, this is not rape and "rape culture" is a conflation of such experiences to the degree of rape when no other thing currently exists to categorize it, and such conflation is creating treachery between the sexes. It would be far more useful to find accurate labels for the dynamic between women and men, and rape culture is not it. Instead, we have a culture of sexual predation and manipulation - male sexual predation which results in street harrassment, rape jokes, and female feelings of being threatened - and female sexual manipulation, causing such things as miscommunication that can have females feeling that men are acting entitled to their bodies and affection, or frustration in males about being used, or wearing sexually provocative clothing at Slut Walks yet denying that provocation even occurs or that women shouldn't be seen (by men) as sexual objects, etc. The culture of sexual predation and sexual manipulation has existed from the beginning of human history and is at least as old as prostitution, it is in fact part of the human condition. Rewriting it as "rape culture" is nothing more than hysteria and treachery.
im so tired of people complaining about the sexualization of women. these women CHOSE to be 'sexualized', they're allowed to say no. and whats wrong with looking and being provocative? these feminists are against slut shaming yet do it the most.
how many feminists does it take to change a lightbulb? none, they just leave it there and falsely accuse it of rape.
Ahh, that wonderful moment when I open up a video and see a bunch of Girlwriteswhat replies. We love you Karen, keep the logic coming, keep being awesome.
CLASSIC: "All women live on a rape schedule . . . I don't even know what that means"
I am a woman. I was violently attacked 25 years ago. He didn't succeed but my blouse was torn, my arms were cut & I didn't get away until I pulled a gun & pointed it at him. I was paranoid & afraid for nearly a year but life goes on.
Fact is, serious assaults are rare. Women need to be aware & take basic steps to assure our safety but daily paranoia isn't healthy. Having a friend watch your drink, or paying attention to your surroundings to reduce your chance of being a victim isn't oppressive. Men have to pay attention, men have to take basic precautions against crime, just like women do. We may be subjected to different types of crime but watching out for yourself, keeping yourself safe is part of being alive.
The key is to be realistic about balancing risk & precautions. It's reasonable to have someone watch your drink, it's reasonable to be alert while walking in a dark parking lot. Take minor precautions for something that's a low risk, then enjoy your life & don't dwell on it.
All these feminists saying 1 in 4 or 1 in 5 women are raped is making young women paranoid. You have a bunch of young women, that have never been attacked, running around afraid & paranoid, exactly like I was for the first 6 months after I was attacked. You can't live in that fear long term. Feminists that are exaggerating the numbers are making thousands & thousands of young women paranoid unnecessarily. If a young woman believes we live in a rape culture they can't enjoy their lives. They can't balance risk & precaution in an appropriate manner. They are afraid & become bitter & there is no reason for that.
I think feminists pushing the rape culture thing are causing far more harm than good.
"Its not that they're stupid, they're bastards."
THANK YOU!!! That is one of the smartest things i have ever heard.
2Corinthians 5:10) For we must all appear before the judgement seat of Christ ; that every one may receive the things done in his body , according to that he hath done , whether it be good or bad.
Great discussion. Each speaker and audience member was able to get their point across in a fair and succinct manner throughout, which was remarkable considering the nature of the topic. This type of discussion had a very honest, very British feel to it imo. Democracy and free speech at its finest.
What is interesting from the audience is that there are some that see and experience rape culture everywhere they look, and some in the audience where this is simply not part of their lived experience. That to me suggests it's not a cultural phenomena, if it was cultural we all generally would experience it in the same way because that is what culture is.
Who is that woman at 45:00?
Someone ought to put out a talent APB on her and approach her about starting a YT channel
The I, the me, the self, the so-called True Self or Higher Self, invents the illusion of division and separation, which breeds conflict, violence, and suffering. Therefore, no Relationship.
This debate and the reactions from the audience gives me hope. The feminists on the panel appeared more religious zealots, not actual scientists.
The second person to speak, the blonde woman... she kept on saying things like "Maybe I want to say..." and "Maybe I think that..."
What an interesting way to phrase things. She DOES think these things, and she DOES want to say these things... but she couches her thoughts in these "maybes"... this, I think, gives us some insight into her mind and how it works.
As for consent, I don't think it has any place in law regarding sexual assault.
In other places in law, consent is easy to determine because it's written down, or because the act is inherently negative (e.g. fighting).
In sexual assault, the act is inherently positive and often spontaneous, and can involve a variety of elements. So consent becomes very murky, and can change retroactively after the act, as far as anyone in the courtroom knows.
Given that the punishment (legal and social) for sexual assault is so severe, we should be focused entirely on actual harm, not on consent.
"Sexualized banter" is part of "rape culture"? Fucking hell! Sexualized banter is flirtation. It's a way of gauging whether someone you're attracted to reciprocates your feelings before risking rejection by asking this person out. How is flirtation in any way commensurate with a "rape culture"?
Thank you Karen for critiquing this video and properly enlightening us. Cheers
@00:59:25
In response to this:
One thing I know to be true about this place -we live among others both like ourselves and less like ourselves . Beyond this there are PREDATORS.
Predators are humanesque beings. They look like us and sound like us but definitively do not feel like us.
Predators prey on the vulnerable. Should anything present themselves as vulnerable a predator will gravitate towards that person or animal -Life Source. Presenting oneself as vulnerable be it through actions or believing yourself presently or potentially a "victim" or embracing the position of lesser capable(axon, responsibility, agency, etc.) being makes you vulnerable. This presentation invites predators to your personal party.
Rape is rape. It's not a vagary.
Consent is basic.
People are PREDATORS.
Sometimes they present as the perpetrator and sometimes they present themselves as the victim.
Regardless, PREDATORS are to be protected full on.
Ex:
The Rolling Stone author who presented the "gangrape" Virginia University article Sabrina what's her face -she's a PREDATOR.
I think it's Sabrina E-.
Ruiner of lives.
in the west we don't celebrate rape, we do not allow rape,we punish rapists by law and culturally and these show we are NOT a rape culture and rape culture is the opposite
wow, the best controversal discussion i've seen yet. and then even in a civilized way, im positively speechless :)
love the arguments of Christina Sommers and some questions from the audience, i.e. raped men, forcing a panic on "all" women, etc.
49:23: Nailed it. We don't have enough sex and not with enough different people, to be able to learn from experience and learn lettting go of insecurities, inhibitions and years of indoctrination and enjoy the best thing in your life. I'm pleasantly surpriced about the openness in this debate.
1:18:21
The eloquent speaking woman in the public is Joanna Williams. Look up her great interview with Dave Rubin.