Great video Alec, makes a lot of sense. Let us all grow wings as large as yours so we can fly away from this cruel world to our own Kingdom of Iron. Have a great day dude!
Sup Alec! Great info man.This vid arrived at the perfect time. Love the idea of higher reps for back, as I find it works for me. Gonna try rowing to neck level in the comings weeks. Peace!
I totally agree. If you want a heavy movement for the back, deadlifts are a way better option. If you want a heavy concentric/eccentric movement for the back, weighted chins are a better option. I think heavy chest rows still have their place as a deadlift accessory, but they’re low on my list.
Great video! These tips are super useful. Question for you... have you ever tried Next Level Diet? I got a build up muscle meal plan from them that's worked wonders for me.
Been loving rear delt high cable rows between my squat sets, it just makes my shoulders feel good and I feel like it helps me stay connected more to the bar when going up in wwight
at the moment I am doing it the other way around - heavy sets of Seal Rows with Dumbbells (no lower back fatigue) and high reps high volume vertical pulls (all kind of pull up variations) 3x a week - I will let you know how it worked out for my overall strength and muscle mass at the end of the year! One has to test and find what works for him after all I always had a love for heavy rows but my body just can't handle the stress on the lower body (long torso) therefore it just interferes to much with squatting and posterior chain work
you might be benefit from a few training blocks where you lighten the weight, focus the full stretch and contraction of the back muscles. I don't mean bodybuilder fluff and pump work. Having a strong thick back is different from a thick, detailed back. This is why bodybuilders back is different from strongman back. Both look thick, one might be stronger but the other would look much more detailed and impressive in terms of looks of course. This is strictly for back details and hypertrophy btw
yeah i came to this conclusion earlier this year too. i found rows felt better and more effective when i was able to do the full ROM and hold it at the contracted position for a second. so now i just row with stuff like 45 lb kettlebells. i also do band pull-aparts to the neck, though i think that may be more of a posterior deltoid exercise than a trap exercise (though it'd of course involve both). basically my rule is if you can't hold it in the fully contracted position (where the scapula are pushed together) for a second at the end of each rep, it's too heavy. and when you are too tired to contract in that fully extended position at the end of a rep, and can't get to that lock out at the end of the movement, it's time to end the set.
I do Pendlay rows, Inverted rows, DB Seal Rows, one arm db rows for my Horizontal rows. I think for a bro that doesnt do any hinges Barbell rows is probably a good choice anyways even if its a bit cheaty
Ive been doing incline DB rows and trying to work up to what i used to do on single arm rows (100s for sets of 10) and the contractions feel so much better now. Ill always have a soft spot for heavy cheat rows tho, they didnt build much back but boy did they thiccen up my spinal erectors
I like to use wenning's 4x25 to start pull days. 4 x 25 bird dog rows absolutely kill my core without making my back too sore but still gives it a nice pump. Then I finish it off with lat pulldowns.
I train back four times a week, horizontal pulls on lower body days, after squats and deadlifts, always with machine or cable variations. I focus on mind muscle connection and chasing the pump, which is pretty difficult in the back muscles, specially on free weights variations. On the other hand, I reserve heavy pulls to upper body days, where I stack pull ups and chin ups between presses as the second motion of the day. That way, I can train the back heavier on some days, and with more volume on other days. Until know, I didn't find a more optimal way to train the back, considering that I don't have any kind of interference with the main movements.
personally I do both, however for me, anything less than 5 reps isn't worth doing but on the lighter loads I go all out with em, so 12-15 x 3 getting slightly heavier each set until set 4 which is my final set where I go as heavy as possible for as many reps as possible even then getting afew cheats once i've exhausted my strict form and a rest pause, plus pull ups/chins again with the same approach, tho after this i might add a 5th set which is just light as possible for 20-50 reps
I only go Heavy on meadows row where I use smaller plates to not to rest the weight on the ground and do about 5-8 cheat reps , and do volume on ring rows , seal rows and gorilla rows . Really enjoying gorilla rows lately 👌 .
Hey Alec, what's your opinion on rows vs weighted pull-ups and chins? In your opinion, which situations/training goals are more suited to each movement, or should one program both into their training?
In general you should use both. I find that chin-ups and their variations lend themselves better to heavier work than do most rowing movements. They also work well for high volume but the relative strength requirements for that are very high (for chin-ups, not pulldowns though). As stated in this video, I find that most people are better served making the majority of their rowing work higher volume with more conservative intensities.
Hey Alec I had some questions to the training programms available on your site: 1) In an Interview with Alpha Destiny you mentioned that you took a lot of knee over toes guy training concept as your own. Are these contained in the current itterations of your programs on your site? 2) I am somewhere between beginner and intermediate. I would really like a comprehensive all-in-one-place source of information to structure my training after. Should I do your "16 WEEK NOVICE STRENGTH & HYPERTROPHY TEMPLATE" or is your "ultimate performance guide" applicable to all levels of strength? I would say my strength base is not quite yet there to do fancy stuff. Thanks for your time and may your massive feminine quads crush your enemies.
I say set things up however works best for you. Personally, I typically only program rowing exercises on lower body days if they are a free standing barbell variation (bent over row, pendlay row). The problem with that is that you can't row first or it will affect the main work, but rowing after the main work typically relegated it to an afterthought. So I don't use these variations very often at all. Instead I generally stick with calisthenic and chest supported variations and place them in multiple slots on upper body days. In general this works better, imo. Good results with less overall interference.
if you do a chest supported row with 2 arms up 1 arm down where the 1 arm down is above the weight you can singlehandedly row up. You can get multiple quality reps out and a weight that you can't actually handle normally. Volume + Weight just seems better to me overall.
Hey alec don't you think high volume training causes a trainee not to reach true muscular failure because his heart rate is extremely elevated and that he stops way short due to excessive fatigue?
I reserve heavy rows for dumbbells, it's a lot less stressful on my low back I feel. With barbells, it's all moderate weight and higher reps. I'll sometimes go heavy on pendlay rows, but not very often. I also do quite a bit of rowing, moreso than most upper body lifts, and I don't really feel much benefits from vertical pulls, they mostly seem to just bother my shoulders. So horizontal pulls have been my go to.
I see a lot of debate over horizontal pulling vs vertical pulling. And of course, going heavy vs higher reps. All of it makes some sense if I'm being honest. Your comment mirrors mine when it comes to stressing the lower back. However, I feel like pullups have done so much for my back but dbell rows don't seem to move the needle as much. Who knows? I suppose how people are built could be the factor.
I am also a big fan of vertical pulls, most especially chin-up variations. They don't seem to get as much respect as horizontal pulling variations do (in the barbell community at least) probably because they carry over less directly into squat and deadlift variations and many people still think that primary carry over into those movements is the end all be all.
@@KurokamiNajimi they do now because I tweaked my shoulder a while ago. I should've been more specific. The main problem I have with vertical pulls is that I never feel them in my lats, it's always more an arm exercise for me. I've got really long arms, and I think that's why. I'm also awful at bench press, to the point where I just don't even bother with it anymore
Back when I was just starting out in my high school gym and for about a year after I did my horizontal work heavy and treated it as the primary work, and the vertical stuff was sort of secondary, but lately I've been doing the opposite and seeing much better gains Overhead press and pull ups? I'm putting carryover to those exercises as more important than carryover to any other upper body lift. I just put getting strong above everything else. I train mostly heavy in low rep ranges with a lot of sets. For chest? 3 sets of deficit high rep push ups all the way to failure. For back? Lots of wide grip rowing to the chest, plus some rear delt focused rowing for a total of about 6 very nasty high intensity sets. But not a ton of "strength emphasis" the horizontal world is much more bodybuilding style It's worked very well for me. I also think you can train back in a very high intensity, I prefer going way beyond failure such that I've done 20 or 30 reps and by the end I'm not able to do more than half reps.
You should check out Alexander Bromley's latest video on how to build a barn door back. This guy has an enormous upper back, and rear delts that look like they threaten to overtake his front delts.
@@EnkiriElite yeah he advocated Heavy weight intensity , I guess what's important is you train hard and enjoy what you do , everyone just sharing there experiences how they build there backs they just took different paths .
@@EnkiriElite kind of, but not exactly He wants you to do some volume, where you two differ is that he wants people getting some load too. Your approach makes sense in the context of evenly distributed priority, whereas his makes sense in the context of upper back prioritization. Plus he is a competitive strongman so his bias is going to be on upper back emphasis.
@@EnkiriElite also he wants you to do strict variations on the more stable movements, just like you do. However, he also wants you to do some with body English where stability is required. The deadlift is a row with 100% body English, and it has value for building the upper back. Maybe rows with body English should moreso be seen as stricter deadlifts than less strict rows.
doesn't bromley admit to using steroids though (at least in the past)? since the delts and upper back respond the best to steroids how could we be sure his results aren't due to that rather than his exercise advice? if that's the primary reason for his back development, doesn't surprise me that his advice would be opposite to what naturals advice.
The only heavy rows I noticed I responded well to were deadlift rows. And pendlays I get away with reps as low as 5 with a few RIR and done more like speed work. All other rows I found the same thing as you. Edit: snatch grip high pulls also though I don’t think most people think of this as a traditional “row” variation
Love me some snatch grip high pulls! I think of and treat them more as explosive training than I do "rowing." They certainly give you some of the benefits of heavy rows though, and I probably need to consider that when I make videos like this (since I do the SGHP often but most people don't). Absent deadlift or hinge work I would actually program heavy-ish rows. But with those other exercises in place I find them to be more of a nuisance than beneficial.
@@EnkiriElite yeah I think of them the same way, which is probably why the deadlift row works heavy for me. It’s more of an explosive speed pull than a classic row but of course there is a lot of overlap !
@backcure3621 its a row off the floor but your don't begin to bend the arms until the bar clears the mid-shin or knees, so the beginning of the pull is just a regular dl, but differs from a high pull or weightlifting style pull in that you don't fully hinge to stand upright. Your torso is at about 45 degrees. If you look up caller woolam DL row or Rubish Row, you'll see examples of what I'm talking about
I’ve switched to doing primarily high reps (20-30) on every exercise that suits it. Less weight which is better for recovery and more total volume. Yes I know 80% of stimulus comes from the last 5 reps and that a 3x5 provides similar stimulus to a 3x10 but it’s still more total volume
I am curious as to why you feel that higher reps are less fatiguing than low rep range? Personally, I feel that proximity to failure in any rep range is what causes fatigue, and the amount of musculature you need to use to complete said rep range. (Squat more fatiguing in any rep range than a leg extension). If anything, a single rep at 95% with 1 -2 left in the tank for multiple sets is far less fatiguing than the same amount of sets in a higher rep range (15+) to a true RPE8-9x in my own experience. Do you find this to be quite different in your own experience?
@@jeremymorrissy9144 You are correct in a sense and catching onto something I’ve come to realize about how people being afraid of maxing out or lifting at 85%+ makes no sense. It’s a bit of a paradox. You see high intensity low volume is less fatiguing than high volume moderate/low intensity. It takes more energy to do 10 reps, 20 reps, 30 reps than just 1-5. However high intensity moderate volume is where the tides begin to shift. Heavier weight puts more stress on the body even if you’re strong enough to perform the light. We look at weight as absolute load and central nervous system fatigue. We call getting too tired to finish 3 sets of 20-30 on squats systematic fatigue. Your muscles being the reason you can’t do another rep is local fatigue. The reason people tend to stick to reps of 10-12 opposed to either 1-8 or 15-40 is because of systemic fatigue and the fact 80% of the stimulus from a set comes from the last 5 reps like I mentioned in my first comment. So if you gas out or you’re just so uncomfortable that you want to stop the set at 10-15 reps when you could have done 5 more you basically wasted your time. You would grow more from a 3x5 than you would from 3x35 where you left 5 reps in the tank When you do a single with 1-2 reps in the tank it would make sense if you’re not getting super fatigued despite the absolute load because you aren’t getting in as many “effective” reps as you would if you were pushing 2-0 RIR on higher volume work. While it’s not a 1-1 more volume still matters. A 3x10 is more than a 3x5, and a 3x30 is more than a 3x10. Even though the last 5 reps are most important the total stimulus from higher reps is greater. To better articulate say a 3x5 gives us 100 points, 3x10 120, 3x20 140. If you could have gotten 1-2 more reps not only are you at a low RPE but your total stimulus potential was lower to begin with. You would have to do a lot to make up for that which is wasting time and ends up being more fatiguing if you do end up matching the stimulus Basically it’s all about fatigue management. Reason people are under the delusional that maxing out all the time is dangerous and more fatiguing is because they’re doing it in addition to high volume work. A set of 10-12 taken to 0 RIR is literally a 1 rep just under a lighter load after you’re pre fatigued. When I warm up and then do 3 singles with the last one being the closest to an all out RPE 10 max I’m not beat up from that. I feel like I’m getting started, it’s literally just 1 set worth of volume basically. I would be more fatigued if I did 2 sets of 12 to 0 RIR. And what do we know about pushing these 0-1 RIR grinders on volume work? That they beat you up much faster and injury risk. You’ll probably get injured doing 0 RIR all the time on volume work with the same variations of the exercise just like you would if you kept maxing out on the same variation all the time This is why I personally plan to stay away from 0 RIR 24/7 long term, the stimulus to fatigue even if we assume it’s higher than current research suggests isn’t worth it. Research on RPE/RIR and how much volume you need isn’t set in stone bc it’s all based around intermediate lifers and their definition of failure isn’t always what ours is. These studies might say x person trained for 3-4 years but numbers don’t reflect what you’d achieve with average genetics in 3-4 years with decent programming. I suspect that it probably is more of a difference and that we need more volume to grow than we’re led to believe the more advanced we become. Alpha Destiny did an experiment doing high intensity high volume instead of moderate intensity extra volume. Says he made some of the best gains of his life and this is an elite natural. Took his bench up by let’s say 13 pounds in 6 months. 385 (178 pounds) to 405 (185). The reason this is so significant is because his 2 sessions were max out then 1 bench variation then 1 OHP variation. So he while he was doing 2 presses for volume he wasn’t doing 2 chest focused exercises nor 2 shoulder focused. Nor was he going hard on isolation lifts that would bring up his triceps. In his fact his arms have been his worst body part for years, he recently made arm gains and made a video about and this is over a year after he got the 405 bench. The volume sets during this grind included a lot of 1-0 RIR grinders. He says he abandoned this approach despite the crazy gains because he was deloading every 4-6 weeks and always feeling beat up and tired. Which like he explained in one of his recent QnA vids that’s not even good for longevity. Going extra hard is the fastest way to grow but not necessarily the smartest. He switched to maxing out just once a week and not getting as close to RPE 10, instead favoring an RPE 9 (really more like 9.5 if we’re more exact) grind and leaving an extra rep or 2 in the tank. Now he can go at least 12 weeks without deloading
@@KurokamiNajimi I agree with a lot of what you’ve said. Measuring reps in reserve remains the biggest issue with majority of casual lifters in the gym. Fatigue management is key.
@@bobba515 That’s like saying the first 5 reps on a set of 10 is junk volume. Yet we see people so do 3x10 make more gains than people who do 3x5. The same applies to 3x20 vs 3x10. And regardless of all that the main reason I do this is using less weight
ever since ive gotten into fitness ive always wondered what the primal use of big muscle mass in nature really was intended for. Like, Lean muscular guys, have a worse durability and on average lower strenght levels than a guy with higher body fat ( that has the same amount of muscle underneath). And then we have strenght training, the neural training of our muscle to lift a shit ton and yet people look nothing as if they were lifting. The more im into fitness the less impressive muscle seem to me haha. It's so strange
your advice here on inverted rows seems different than the form and weight you recommended on your inverted row vid from a couple years ago. would you no longer recommend the form and higher weight from before? thanks.
No, I still think the other one I showed before has its place as long as you are training the movement primarily in the 10-15 rep range. It allows you to go a bit heavier. The exercise I am showing here should be done for high reps of 20+ per set if possible. It changes the muscular emphasis onto mostly the upper back.
I tried this last week. Felt good in the right area but was suspicious it was one of those ineffective juice-monkey things. If Alec Enkiri says it's good I believe it!
Since rowing is more of a development lift than a “max strength lift it would make the most sense to take that approach. It’s the best range for hypertrophy.
@@aavila1206 I think I take all my sets too close to failure. usually to failure. think my lifts all stalling because of it. I don't miss a rep but I def don't have more in the tank either.
A general rule of thumb I use for secondary movements is 1-2 RIR for each of the initial sets, and then you can go to 0 RIR on the final set of any given exercise.
Don’t agree with your ‚row is only assistance ‚ if you’re a powerlifter yes, but for overall strength and size development rows are the best bang for your buck especially for beginners and intermediates. It teaches you to keep body position under high load especially when doing bent over rows
I agree that most people row too heavy, but I don’t agree with rows being a secondary movement. I know your not going to be doing one rep maxes on rows and I know nobody is ever going back o ask you how much you row, but that doesn’t mean the movement is any less important than a bench press or squat. You can add a ton of size and strength to your upper body by taking your rowing very seriously
I agree 100% that you can add a ton of size and strength! I just think that the movements better mend themselves to moderate and high rep training in order to accomplish this goal, as opposed to the overly heavy, overly cheaty form you typically see with rows. The benefits are then lost imo.
@@EnkiriElite yea I see what your saying there. It’s one of those exercises where you can’t be emotionally attached to your numbers, which can make it hard for some people to to use the appropriate level of focus/effort for that exercise
I think going heavy on rows has a lot of worthwhile benefits but that more people need to hear about how more technically sound, and controlled higher volumes for back training should be a primary way to grow those muscles. Top set of 5 with some light cheating, followed by 4 sets of 6 to 8 of very controlled wide grip pendlay rows, then sets of 10 to 12 of a cable or chest supported row executed while keeping the elbows in along with another 2 to 3 exercises done more for volume and control on another day would make the vast majority of individuals a lot wider.
Increased shoulder protraction the movement allows a deep stretch of the shoulders which I personally never got from a barbell row. There’s less body English so hitting full range of motion is something you can be more mindful about and since I’ve implemented them my range of motion on lat pull-down have increased and I think it’s the missing link for chest to bar pull ups
That hashtag is incredibly obvious. There's no way you can grow your lats and biceps with a simple garden implement.
Actually you probably could haha...at least to a degree.
@MikeOfTheBeast if ya'll keep parsing my words I'm gonna lose my mind 😂
Try hoeing for a whole day and see what you'll get.
Nah you could tho
@MikeOfTheBeast bruh
I used to row 170kg/374lbs. And by row I mean deadlift-with-a-slight-arm-bend-at-the-end.
yeah that's the problem with really heavy cheat rows, basically they eventually go from being bad form rows to bad form deadlifts.
I think we've all done this at some point or another. Some of use realize it's silly and stop, whereas some of us think it's cool and double down lol.
Wide grip seal rows to the neck, that would murder the upper back! Solid
Amen bro, sometimes I make bent over rows with lighter weight and pulling to nipple line with wide grip. It fries the rear deltoids and romboids
My main horizontal pull lately has been the inverted row, 8-15 reps. Seeing amazing results so far
I love this movement too. Especially with suspension straps so I can increase ROM.
Great video Alec, makes a lot of sense. Let us all grow wings as large as yours so we can fly away from this cruel world to our own Kingdom of Iron. Have a great day dude!
Sup Alec! Great info man.This vid arrived at the perfect time. Love the idea of higher reps for back, as I find it works for me. Gonna try rowing to neck level in the comings weeks. Peace!
I totally agree. If you want a heavy movement for the back, deadlifts are a way better option. If you want a heavy concentric/eccentric movement for the back, weighted chins are a better option.
I think heavy chest rows still have their place as a deadlift accessory, but they’re low on my list.
100% agree. I have always done my rowing with higher volume. Always felt that I felt in control and my actual reps were much better quality.
Great video! These tips are super useful. Question for you... have you ever tried Next Level Diet? I got a build up muscle meal plan from them that's worked wonders for me.
thank you bro! Hope you're having a great week so far
thanks man! you too.
Been loving rear delt high cable rows between my squat sets, it just makes my shoulders feel good and I feel like it helps me stay connected more to the bar when going up in wwight
at the moment I am doing it the other way around - heavy sets of Seal Rows with Dumbbells (no lower back fatigue) and high reps high volume vertical pulls (all kind of pull up variations) 3x a week - I will let you know how it worked out for my overall strength and muscle mass at the end of the year! One has to test and find what works for him after all
I always had a love for heavy rows but my body just can't handle the stress on the lower body (long torso) therefore it just interferes to much with squatting and posterior chain work
My back is by far my best body part and I do almost exclusively heavy rows, deadlift rows along with farmers walk and deadlifts for my back
glad to hear it!
you might be benefit from a few training blocks where you lighten the weight, focus the full stretch and contraction of the back muscles. I don't mean bodybuilder fluff and pump work. Having a strong thick back is different from a thick, detailed back. This is why bodybuilders back is different from strongman back. Both look thick, one might be stronger but the other would look much more detailed and impressive in terms of looks of course.
This is strictly for back details and hypertrophy btw
yeah i came to this conclusion earlier this year too. i found rows felt better and more effective when i was able to do the full ROM and hold it at the contracted position for a second. so now i just row with stuff like 45 lb kettlebells. i also do band pull-aparts to the neck, though i think that may be more of a posterior deltoid exercise than a trap exercise (though it'd of course involve both). basically my rule is if you can't hold it in the fully contracted position (where the scapula are pushed together) for a second at the end of each rep, it's too heavy. and when you are too tired to contract in that fully extended position at the end of a rep, and can't get to that lock out at the end of the movement, it's time to end the set.
I'm opened this video at the gym in between sets of rows
Nuthin to it but to do it.
I do Pendlay rows, Inverted rows, DB Seal Rows, one arm db rows for my Horizontal rows. I think for a bro that doesnt do any hinges Barbell rows is probably a good choice anyways even if its a bit cheaty
Quality content bro
Thank you good sir
Ive been doing incline DB rows and trying to work up to what i used to do on single arm rows (100s for sets of 10) and the contractions feel so much better now. Ill always have a soft spot for heavy cheat rows tho, they didnt build much back but boy did they thiccen up my spinal erectors
I like to use wenning's 4x25 to start pull days. 4 x 25 bird dog rows absolutely kill my core without making my back too sore but still gives it a nice pump. Then I finish it off with lat pulldowns.
Got to row to grow!!!!
I train back four times a week, horizontal pulls on lower body days, after squats and deadlifts, always with machine or cable variations. I focus on mind muscle connection and chasing the pump, which is pretty difficult in the back muscles, specially on free weights variations.
On the other hand, I reserve heavy pulls to upper body days, where I stack pull ups and chin ups between presses as the second motion of the day. That way, I can train the back heavier on some days, and with more volume on other days.
Until know, I didn't find a more optimal way to train the back, considering that I don't have any kind of interference with the main movements.
Were you high when you wrote this
, just curious ?
I actually do both of load and volume in variations and high frequency on my back.
Rows for the bros 🙏
personally I do both, however for me, anything less than 5 reps isn't worth doing but on the lighter loads I go all out with em, so 12-15 x 3 getting slightly heavier each set until set 4 which is my final set where I go as heavy as possible for as many reps as possible even then getting afew cheats once i've exhausted my strict form and a rest pause, plus pull ups/chins again with the same approach, tho after this i might add a 5th set which is just light as possible for 20-50 reps
My wife looks at me watching these videos the same way we look at our toddler watching her baby shows 🤣 hilarious
Sign of true love
I lowered the weight yesterday, and my good, so much more muscle activation
LOL, I always thought it was "Rows for Hoes". I now have a different perspective! :D
Na man, the hoes don't care either way lol.
Hitting back today 👌
Hope ya crushed it mayne
I only go Heavy on meadows row where I use smaller plates to not to rest the weight on the ground and do about 5-8 cheat reps , and do volume on ring rows , seal rows and gorilla rows . Really enjoying gorilla rows lately 👌 .
Hey Alec, what's your opinion on rows vs weighted pull-ups and chins? In your opinion, which situations/training goals are more suited to each movement, or should one program both into their training?
In general you should use both. I find that chin-ups and their variations lend themselves better to heavier work than do most rowing movements. They also work well for high volume but the relative strength requirements for that are very high (for chin-ups, not pulldowns though). As stated in this video, I find that most people are better served making the majority of their rowing work higher volume with more conservative intensities.
Is there any benefit to rowing all the way to the chest? Or does the range of motion not really matter much?
Push / Hips : 5 - 8 reps
Pull / Legs : 8 - 12 reps
Hey just watched this ad at the start of your video for this guy named V Shred. How should I row for my body type?!?.....😂😂😂
womp womp womppppp
Hey Alec I had some questions to the training programms available on your site:
1) In an Interview with Alpha Destiny you mentioned that you took a lot of knee over toes guy training concept as your own. Are these contained in the current itterations of your programs on your site?
2) I am somewhere between beginner and intermediate. I would really like a comprehensive all-in-one-place source of information to structure my training after. Should I do your "16 WEEK NOVICE STRENGTH & HYPERTROPHY TEMPLATE" or is your "ultimate performance guide" applicable to all levels of strength? I would say my strength base is not quite yet there to do fancy stuff.
Thanks for your time and may your massive feminine quads crush your enemies.
I hope you won that flower print chair in a recent high stakes tennis match down at the country club this morning.
UA-cam deleted my last comment for me lol but I'm currently at my mom's house.
What about doing the rows variation on lower body days and keeping the lats stuff for the upper body days
I say set things up however works best for you. Personally, I typically only program rowing exercises on lower body days if they are a free standing barbell variation (bent over row, pendlay row). The problem with that is that you can't row first or it will affect the main work, but rowing after the main work typically relegated it to an afterthought. So I don't use these variations very often at all.
Instead I generally stick with calisthenic and chest supported variations and place them in multiple slots on upper body days. In general this works better, imo. Good results with less overall interference.
Thank you for your answer
I like to do heavy chinups but for rows volume and rep work all the way.
agreed! I love heavy chins and find them to be much more productive than heavy rows.
if you do a chest supported row with 2 arms up 1 arm down where the 1 arm down is above the weight you can singlehandedly row up. You can get multiple quality reps out and a weight that you can't actually handle normally. Volume + Weight just seems better to me overall.
Been doin alphadestiny protocol 3 upperback 1 lat
Hey alec don't you think high volume training causes a trainee not to reach true muscular failure because his heart rate is extremely elevated and that he stops way short due to excessive fatigue?
I reserve heavy rows for dumbbells, it's a lot less stressful on my low back I feel. With barbells, it's all moderate weight and higher reps. I'll sometimes go heavy on pendlay rows, but not very often.
I also do quite a bit of rowing, moreso than most upper body lifts, and I don't really feel much benefits from vertical pulls, they mostly seem to just bother my shoulders. So horizontal pulls have been my go to.
I see a lot of debate over horizontal pulling vs vertical pulling. And of course, going heavy vs higher reps. All of it makes some sense if I'm being honest. Your comment mirrors mine when it comes to stressing the lower back. However, I feel like pullups have done so much for my back but dbell rows don't seem to move the needle as much. Who knows? I suppose how people are built could be the factor.
I am also a big fan of vertical pulls, most especially chin-up variations. They don't seem to get as much respect as horizontal pulling variations do (in the barbell community at least) probably because they carry over less directly into squat and deadlift variations and many people still think that primary carry over into those movements is the end all be all.
“For the Emperor!!!!”
All pull up variations hurt your shoulders? If so damn that sucks
@@KurokamiNajimi they do now because I tweaked my shoulder a while ago. I should've been more specific. The main problem I have with vertical pulls is that I never feel them in my lats, it's always more an arm exercise for me. I've got really long arms, and I think that's why. I'm also awful at bench press, to the point where I just don't even bother with it anymore
Back when I was just starting out in my high school gym and for about a year after I did my horizontal work heavy and treated it as the primary work, and the vertical stuff was sort of secondary, but lately I've been doing the opposite and seeing much better gains
Overhead press and pull ups? I'm putting carryover to those exercises as more important than carryover to any other upper body lift. I just put getting strong above everything else. I train mostly heavy in low rep ranges with a lot of sets. For chest? 3 sets of deficit high rep push ups all the way to failure. For back? Lots of wide grip rowing to the chest, plus some rear delt focused rowing for a total of about 6 very nasty high intensity sets. But not a ton of "strength emphasis" the horizontal world is much more bodybuilding style
It's worked very well for me. I also think you can train back in a very high intensity, I prefer going way beyond failure such that I've done 20 or 30 reps and by the end I'm not able to do more than half reps.
Erik do you think it’s possible to do a paused at the chest 405 pendlay row . Or is that number out of reach for naturals .
Nobody is rowing 4 plates Strict, natty or enhanced
You should check out Alexander Bromley's latest video on how to build a barn door back.
This guy has an enormous upper back, and rear delts that look like they threaten to overtake his front delts.
Checked it out! Most it is the opposite of what I said here lol
@@EnkiriElite yeah he advocated Heavy weight intensity , I guess what's important is you train hard and enjoy what you do , everyone just sharing there experiences how they build there backs they just took different paths .
@@EnkiriElite kind of, but not exactly He wants you to do some volume, where you two differ is that he wants people getting some load too. Your approach makes sense in the context of evenly distributed priority, whereas his makes sense in the context of upper back prioritization. Plus he is a competitive strongman so his bias is going to be on upper back emphasis.
@@EnkiriElite also he wants you to do strict variations on the more stable movements, just like you do. However, he also wants you to do some with body English where stability is required.
The deadlift is a row with 100% body English, and it has value for building the upper back. Maybe rows with body English should moreso be seen as stricter deadlifts than less strict rows.
doesn't bromley admit to using steroids though (at least in the past)? since the delts and upper back respond the best to steroids how could we be sure his results aren't due to that rather than his exercise advice? if that's the primary reason for his back development, doesn't surprise me that his advice would be opposite to what naturals advice.
The only heavy rows I noticed I responded well to were deadlift rows. And pendlays I get away with reps as low as 5 with a few RIR and done more like speed work. All other rows I found the same thing as you.
Edit: snatch grip high pulls also though I don’t think most people think of this as a traditional “row” variation
Love me some snatch grip high pulls! I think of and treat them more as explosive training than I do "rowing." They certainly give you some of the benefits of heavy rows though, and I probably need to consider that when I make videos like this (since I do the SGHP often but most people don't). Absent deadlift or hinge work I would actually program heavy-ish rows. But with those other exercises in place I find them to be more of a nuisance than beneficial.
@@EnkiriElite yeah I think of them the same way, which is probably why the deadlift row works heavy for me. It’s more of an explosive speed pull than a classic row but of course there is a lot of overlap !
What is a deadlift row? I don't think you're talking about rowing from a dead stop, since you're referring to pendlays separately
@backcure3621 its a row off the floor but your don't begin to bend the arms until the bar clears the mid-shin or knees, so the beginning of the pull is just a regular dl, but differs from a high pull or weightlifting style pull in that you don't fully hinge to stand upright. Your torso is at about 45 degrees. If you look up caller woolam DL row or Rubish Row, you'll see examples of what I'm talking about
@@Dementia.Pugilistica do you use them to assist deadlifts or for hypertrophy as well?
I only do cheat rows after I reach failure on strict rows.
So besides rows, which other compounds are good with lower weight\higher volume, and which with higher weight\lower volume?
He said something similar with shoulder presses in an earlier video
@@owainwynjones5394 nice
That row looks really intresting
Give it a shot and let me know what ya think!
@@EnkiriElite Paired that row with explosive deficit pushups this morning. Love it. This fits really well to my sport, mma.
@@manfrominternet awesome bro
I’ve switched to doing primarily high reps (20-30) on every exercise that suits it. Less weight which is better for recovery and more total volume. Yes I know 80% of stimulus comes from the last 5 reps and that a 3x5 provides similar stimulus to a 3x10 but it’s still more total volume
I am curious as to why you feel that higher reps are less fatiguing than low rep range? Personally, I feel that proximity to failure in any rep range is what causes fatigue, and the amount of musculature you need to use to complete said rep range. (Squat more fatiguing in any rep range than a leg extension).
If anything, a single rep at 95% with 1 -2 left in the tank for multiple sets is far less fatiguing than the same amount of sets in a higher rep range (15+) to a true RPE8-9x in my own experience. Do you find this to be quite different in your own experience?
@@jeremymorrissy9144 You are correct in a sense and catching onto something I’ve come to realize about how people being afraid of maxing out or lifting at 85%+ makes no sense. It’s a bit of a paradox. You see high intensity low volume is less fatiguing than high volume moderate/low intensity. It takes more energy to do 10 reps, 20 reps, 30 reps than just 1-5. However high intensity moderate volume is where the tides begin to shift. Heavier weight puts more stress on the body even if you’re strong enough to perform the light. We look at weight as absolute load and central nervous system fatigue. We call getting too tired to finish 3 sets of 20-30 on squats systematic fatigue. Your muscles being the reason you can’t do another rep is local fatigue. The reason people tend to stick to reps of 10-12 opposed to either 1-8 or 15-40 is because of systemic fatigue and the fact 80% of the stimulus from a set comes from the last 5 reps like I mentioned in my first comment. So if you gas out or you’re just so uncomfortable that you want to stop the set at 10-15 reps when you could have done 5 more you basically wasted your time. You would grow more from a 3x5 than you would from 3x35 where you left 5 reps in the tank
When you do a single with 1-2 reps in the tank it would make sense if you’re not getting super fatigued despite the absolute load because you aren’t getting in as many “effective” reps as you would if you were pushing 2-0 RIR on higher volume work. While it’s not a 1-1 more volume still matters. A 3x10 is more than a 3x5, and a 3x30 is more than a 3x10. Even though the last 5 reps are most important the total stimulus from higher reps is greater. To better articulate say a 3x5 gives us 100 points, 3x10 120, 3x20 140. If you could have gotten 1-2 more reps not only are you at a low RPE but your total stimulus potential was lower to begin with. You would have to do a lot to make up for that which is wasting time and ends up being more fatiguing if you do end up matching the stimulus
Basically it’s all about fatigue management. Reason people are under the delusional that maxing out all the time is dangerous and more fatiguing is because they’re doing it in addition to high volume work. A set of 10-12 taken to 0 RIR is literally a 1 rep just under a lighter load after you’re pre fatigued. When I warm up and then do 3 singles with the last one being the closest to an all out RPE 10 max I’m not beat up from that. I feel like I’m getting started, it’s literally just 1 set worth of volume basically. I would be more fatigued if I did 2 sets of 12 to 0 RIR. And what do we know about pushing these 0-1 RIR grinders on volume work? That they beat you up much faster and injury risk. You’ll probably get injured doing 0 RIR all the time on volume work with the same variations of the exercise just like you would if you kept maxing out on the same variation all the time
This is why I personally plan to stay away from 0 RIR 24/7 long term, the stimulus to fatigue even if we assume it’s higher than current research suggests isn’t worth it. Research on RPE/RIR and how much volume you need isn’t set in stone bc it’s all based around intermediate lifers and their definition of failure isn’t always what ours is. These studies might say x person trained for 3-4 years but numbers don’t reflect what you’d achieve with average genetics in 3-4 years with decent programming. I suspect that it probably is more of a difference and that we need more volume to grow than we’re led to believe the more advanced we become. Alpha Destiny did an experiment doing high intensity high volume instead of moderate intensity extra volume. Says he made some of the best gains of his life and this is an elite natural. Took his bench up by let’s say 13 pounds in 6 months. 385 (178 pounds) to 405 (185). The reason this is so significant is because his 2 sessions were max out then 1 bench variation then 1 OHP variation. So he while he was doing 2 presses for volume he wasn’t doing 2 chest focused exercises nor 2 shoulder focused. Nor was he going hard on isolation lifts that would bring up his triceps. In his fact his arms have been his worst body part for years, he recently made arm gains and made a video about and this is over a year after he got the 405 bench. The volume sets during this grind included a lot of 1-0 RIR grinders. He says he abandoned this approach despite the crazy gains because he was deloading every 4-6 weeks and always feeling beat up and tired. Which like he explained in one of his recent QnA vids that’s not even good for longevity. Going extra hard is the fastest way to grow but not necessarily the smartest. He switched to maxing out just once a week and not getting as close to RPE 10, instead favoring an RPE 9 (really more like 9.5 if we’re more exact) grind and leaving an extra rep or 2 in the tank. Now he can go at least 12 weeks without deloading
@@KurokamiNajimi I agree with a lot of what you’ve said.
Measuring reps in reserve remains the biggest issue with majority of casual lifters in the gym. Fatigue management is key.
Junk volume
@@bobba515 That’s like saying the first 5 reps on a set of 10 is junk volume. Yet we see people so do 3x10 make more gains than people who do 3x5. The same applies to 3x20 vs 3x10. And regardless of all that the main reason I do this is using less weight
ever since ive gotten into fitness ive always wondered what the primal use of big muscle mass in nature really was intended for.
Like, Lean muscular guys, have a worse durability and on average lower strenght levels than a guy with higher body fat ( that has the same amount of muscle underneath).
And then we have strenght training, the neural training of our muscle to lift a shit ton and yet people look nothing as if they were lifting.
The more im into fitness the less impressive muscle seem to me haha. It's so strange
Stopped by
your advice here on inverted rows seems different than the form and weight you recommended on your inverted row vid from a couple years ago. would you no longer recommend the form and higher weight from before? thanks.
No, I still think the other one I showed before has its place as long as you are training the movement primarily in the 10-15 rep range. It allows you to go a bit heavier.
The exercise I am showing here should be done for high reps of 20+ per set if possible. It changes the muscular emphasis onto mostly the upper back.
@@EnkiriElite whats the muscular emphasis the other, heavier way? not still upper back?
@@patrickjulius7352 there is more emphasis on the lats, less emphasis on the rhomboids, traps, teres minor/major, etc.
I'm using 145 lbs on a big deficit, wide grip, and at least a 15RM. I don't want to waste my time rowing no heavy ass weight son!
i think i have the same power rack
Or, you could just dump the rows completely and do more curls.
Your deadlift won't go up, but you'll have bigger arms... so... swings and roundabouts.
Curls 4 the girls man. But rows fo the hoes bro. I know which one I'm choosing!
@@EnkiriElite flies for the guys
I tried this last week. Felt good in the right area but was suspicious it was one of those ineffective juice-monkey things. If Alec Enkiri says it's good I believe it!
Do you always leave 1-2 RIR for all rowing variations?
Since rowing is more of a development lift than a “max strength lift it would make the most sense to take that approach. It’s the best range for hypertrophy.
@@aavila1206 I think I take all my sets too close to failure. usually to failure. think my lifts all stalling because of it. I don't miss a rep but I def don't have more in the tank either.
@Patrick Julius
If you’re any sort of strong that could be a limiting factor.
@@aavila1206 do you take any sets of any exercise closer to failure within the workout or every set for every exercise leaving 2 in the tank?
A general rule of thumb I use for secondary movements is 1-2 RIR for each of the initial sets, and then you can go to 0 RIR on the final set of any given exercise.
How did you know I did inverted rows today 👀
I'm psycho...I mean psychic.
Don’t agree with your ‚row is only assistance ‚ if you’re a powerlifter yes, but for overall strength and size development rows are the best bang for your buck especially for beginners and intermediates. It teaches you to keep body position under high load especially when doing bent over rows
I agree that most people row too heavy, but I don’t agree with rows being a secondary movement. I know your not going to be doing one rep maxes on rows and I know nobody is ever going back o ask you how much you row, but that doesn’t mean the movement is any less important than a bench press or squat. You can add a ton of size and strength to your upper body by taking your rowing very seriously
I agree 100% that you can add a ton of size and strength! I just think that the movements better mend themselves to moderate and high rep training in order to accomplish this goal, as opposed to the overly heavy, overly cheaty form you typically see with rows. The benefits are then lost imo.
@@EnkiriElite yea I see what your saying there. It’s one of those exercises where you can’t be emotionally attached to your numbers, which can make it hard for some people to to use the appropriate level of focus/effort for that exercise
I think going heavy on rows has a lot of worthwhile benefits but that more people need to hear about how more technically sound, and controlled higher volumes for back training should be a primary way to grow those muscles. Top set of 5 with some light cheating, followed by 4 sets of 6 to 8 of very controlled wide grip pendlay rows, then sets of 10 to 12 of a cable or chest supported row executed while keeping the elbows in along with another 2 to 3 exercises done more for volume and control on another day would make the vast majority of individuals a lot wider.
People sleep on inverted rows and it’s a damn shame
What have you found to be the main difference if you don’t mind me asking? (Vs standard barbell row)
Increased shoulder protraction the movement allows a deep stretch of the shoulders which I personally never got from a barbell row. There’s less body English so hitting full range of motion is something you can be more mindful about and since I’ve implemented them my range of motion on lat pull-down have increased and I think it’s the missing link for chest to bar pull ups
@Jaron Tomlinson
Thanks
But Big Ronnie?!
can I be your assistant? I was rejected by Jason Blaha for his intern position.
How many words can you type per minute???
@@EnkiriElite .308, like Hemingway. I'm also advanced in Excel and can make a better spreadsheet than Coath.
@@arcaneknight9799 😂😂😂 is he really looking for an assistant?? Bahah
Ok but I wanna row 500lbs
then row 500lbs!
algorithm
Thank you sir!
nahh heavy rows work wayyy better for overall back development
Let's see the results
Weighted Pull-up is king
Do you row now? In an older video you said that you don't row because it hinders your deadlift progress
I said I don't do FREE STANDING rowing exercises. And I still dont.