Been looking at a lot of model railways videos on UA-cam just lately and it appears that roof trusses really are a model railways enthusiast's best friend.
I know nothing about DCC, nor do I really have an express interest in it. Howeved I always watch your videos with interest. In this case I would just like to say that this is one of the clearest presentations I have ever seen. I was entralled by the content and actually feel I understood exactly what you were demonstrating. So good was this video that if I had the money and I was several years younger and starting a new layout, I would without a shadow of a doubt go DCC. Thanks Dave Stay safe. Cheers, Bob
I've always found myself scratching my head over DCC accessory systems but your video certainly helps explain a process and system that doesn't require a computer science degree. A very informative and well structured video👍
This was both fascinating and mind blowing - oh how my head hurts - and I can't even hazard a guess as to the cost and how that cost compares with the original DC solution! I'm certainly grateful for this and all the other videos that have helped me with my own efforts. Please take care and stay safe.
Absolutely incredible. Love what you have done and the explanation. I really like the use of the black mounting panel. Something to consider later on 👍🏼
Congratulations Dave, of explaining this complex subject in a way that even I could understand, although having used DC sine the 1950's I'm unlikely to ever get into the World of DCC and all it entails. Regards...Bob
Fantastic job Looks like the kind of thing the real Dean Park box would have too. Your explanation of its wiring and operation is very good. Anyone going into this system would be able to follow it through your video and the instructions. In a real box the points also have two ways of being set individual switches to move them as well as route setting. The Ecos does not route set but it does simulate that in a way. It is sure to give hours of fun routing trains in a more realistic way.
Nice job Dave. That looks so neat and clean now. Love the visual aspect of the LED’s give you on where the loco will go. Thanks for sharing and stay safe. Ken
Without doubt one of the best layouts on UA-cam and your control system is very impressive and all credit to you for having put everything together but I think it would be an absolute nightmare trying to trace a fault when one or more electronic components fail and I’m an Electrician with over forty years experience.
Hi Dave , great video and nice to see adaptation on Ecos as I have used one for eleven years and with over 130 points I use the onboard track mapping which runs into five pages. I would love to have a separate control panel but the Ecos originally did away with all that extra wiring. Technology has moved on since then as you have shown in this video.
Dave, what a video!! That system is brilliant. I’m yet to build my new layout but it is imminent. I had solenoid point motors on a previous layout and this video has just convinced me to keep them rather than go down the alternative routes available. Brilliant system and it does appear to be pretty simple. Spot on. Thank you for such a good explanation. 👍👍
Hi Dave - thanks for a very simple explanation of how your control panel works. Wish I had fitted the LEDs with the ability to show both red/green dependant on route setting. Cheers Euan
Wow really good to see how it was done , expressive skills Dave . I also loved the point joke thrown in at 14:15 😂 ‘that would be pointless’ when talking about points lol
Great video - I find you really need to 'see' DCC Concepts stuff in action to get a feel for how it works, what it can do, and what else you need to buy. The text on the website is very difficult to understand and it gets frustrating where every other sentence they tell you X unit is all you'll ever need, only to say 'once you add three more, a power unit, a sniffer unit, an adapter, three Y cables and more...'
I think the touchpad controller you have is essentially a Märklin Central station 3 as this is made by esu for Märklin. Interesting to watch. I use a similar system from Märklin with the K83 control boxes to control the points and signals. I can't afford a CS3 at the moment so use their mobile station 2 to control the boxes. It's much easier than using the old manual solenoid control systems.
Very impressive and I am sure you will have a great time working with it. I may have said this before, but I am old school and I am going to stick with DC. My points will be servo-operated using Arduino with Uno 3 boards. So not everything is manually operated and there will be no surface mounted point motors. I hope to be able to open and close the 6 bay Roundhouse doors in the same way. The turntable will be linked to the Uno 3 board to control the indexing. Most of my Loco's are from the 60s,70s, and 80s. I hope to be able to have 4 trains running at the same time. I can on my plan have 3 at the moment, I am working on the fourth. Very Interesting video and you are keeping me up to date what is available. Martin. (Thailand)
Hi Dave great video mate I found it every interesting I am putting in dapol Semaphore signals working on my model of stranraer harbour station I am waiting for the switches to come so I can start work on it mate stay safe and well Dave clive
Hi Dave Firstly great video very well presented. well done We can now do the 3 way lights, straight from the mimic, it just involves some alteration on the leds and a diode. if any one would like to know how just send us an Email asking. Regards John. DCC Concepts
John Whiteside Hi thanks. that’s great to know John. Technology is always moving forward to allow these things to be done, thanks for your assistance in getting this control panel to work. It looks great and is great fun to operate. Dave
Hi Dave, a really interesting and helpful vid. I had been thinking about re-wiring my points to be controlled by my Z21, rather than by a separate bus and power source with Peco switches, and this answered many of my questions. Enjoy your new set-up, cheers, Stu.
Morning Dave. Hope you and all of your family are keeping well? I think it's everyone's dream to have a control panel like you've got as we all strive to mimic the real railway be it mechanical or electronic like yours 🤣 Well done for an excellent job and explaining in simple terms what you've done 👍🏻 Have a fantastic weekend until the next episode. Cheers as always Stevie 😎
wow great control board, I am very surrprised the Dcc Consepts accessory boards do not allow for three way points...it's strange as the boards opperate in the same way as the Esu accessory boards..I have three way points working on two addresses with mag coils switches with no problems. {it my be the bridge board converting to the Lnet interface cable that may not allow this}.
Dave, I don’t have an ecos DCC controller and am not sure if my controller has this functionality. Is it possible to control all this with the toggle switches on DCC without going though the controller? Or is the controller essential for setting this all up and controlling it? I’m assuming the controller is a fairly essential part in this. Cheers, Rich.
Brilliant video Dave. I want to do something similar to that and I appreciate nearer the date I will contact DCC Concepts to put my plan over. Im wanting to use my NCE Power Cab just to control my trains, having at 5 running at any one time. But I would like to control my points through a DCC Concepts Mimic Panel like yourselves by passing the power cab. Preferably one that you operate by the lights itself on the panel, I think that can be done. Likewise I want to use only Peco PL-10 point motors as I like the sound of the points changing, no quiet ones in my time. Really interesting video, unbelievable how much wiring and work you save yourselves. Regards Chris
Really informative video and most useful. I’m in the embryonic stages of going DCC and the control panel that your constructed looks really smart. Just out of curiosity did you just get a local company to laser cut the panel and what thickness was the panel and where did you purchase the red green LED’s. Sorry for the questions but really inspired by the video. Many thanks.
Hi. Thanks. LED are Dcc concepts dual leds. Green/red. Panel is 3mm acrylic My mate has a laser cutter for his home business, so he kindly cuts it. I’m lucky in that respect. Cheers Dave
Wow that’s amazing Dave! Would love to know where you got your panel done, I’m in need of a mimic panel for my layout, no idea how to go about it though
Great Video! Excuse me for butting in, I am interested in your initial thoughts. Have you ever tried - Januke Henatalie Formula (erm, check it on google should be there)? It is an awesome one off product for operating a model railroad without the normal expense. Ive heard some extraordinary things about it and my work buddy at very last got great success with it.
This is nuts, all those electronics to achieve basically what you had before. Your panel is beautiful but you could have used the toggle switches directly with your points and cut out the expensive DCC concepts middleman. Now I love technology but this seems crazy to me. Don't get me wrong, I think it's all admirable stuff but overkill. But each to their own, I do enjoy your channel and I feel a little bad saying this stuff, but I do admire your work.
Hi. Sure the points operated before but not through the ecos. This way I can use the ecos to have control if I want, or the toggles. The lights are a more visual way of knowing which way the point is thrown. I can also see the route set up, Ie if they are all greens I know where the train is going and if it’s got all of the points set correctly. I like the more visual display that I get with the LED too. Yeah it does the same basic thing of controlling the points but now it’s higher tech and, well I like the look of it lol. I suppose.,as you say, each to their own. I just thought I’d go for a set up that had worked so well for the storage yard control panel. I do like to try new technology. Thanks for getting in touch though. Sorry I didn’t see your comment earlier. It’s great to hear you enjoy my channel. Thanks for watching my stuff. Cheers Dave
Hi, I’ve been extending my layout using the same setup as you are using, ie. ECoS, DCC solenoid decoder and Peco motors. I have come to a problem which you seem to have overcome namely the three way point which the ECoS programmes sequentially for the two motor but you can’t have both decoders listening or they will the same address, how did you overcome this?
Hi. Treat the three way point as two separate points on the ecos. Giving them two different addresses. Don’t use the three way icon on the ecos. Use two normal point icons. Hope this helps. So sorry for taking so long to reply. I just stumbled across this comment when watching the video again myself. Dave
I could have done, but chose to keep it separate for a very good reason. A loco can cross point 14 towards point 12, but stop to allow trains to pass on the lines at both ends of the loco. It allows a bit of flexibility. It was all thought out during the design of this system. The same with points 7&8 at the other end using the due mind crossing. All thought out beforehand.
@@DeanPark Fair enough, sounds like a reasonable compromise, though in prototypical circumstances that would be Verboten AF! If the signals actually stop the trains rather than just being 'cosmetic' maybe it's possible to interlock with R9 as the loco straddles that line . . . (I been playing a lot of Simsig, see, and you get to know what's what in route-setting . . . sorry)
Great video Dave. Where did the laser cut acrylic board come from please? I need one of those! All that DCC Concepts stuff is very easy to install and use isn’t it?
The board looks amazing and is really well explained! You mentioned your signals being automated using the Heathcote electronics, have you done a video on these. I tried to find one but couldn't.
Hi Dave, amazing! I remember back in the day when everyone was raving about how good the H&M duette was, this is light years away. Is the number display in the centre of the panel from one of the boards or is it an additional one? Thanks for explaining the system, regards Bobby 'T'.
Hi Dave, A very informative video on the use of DCC Concepts equipment and the modelling electronics latching unit. Your control panel is excellent. Would I be correct in thinking that the system presumes a point has been thrown and changes the LED accordingly? And if you had a point motor failure or a point that didn't fully throw it would still show as thrown. I know solenoid point motors a very reliable but I have had a peco point fail occasionally or something obstructing the blades stopping full throw. Regards, David.
Hi, it will only change the led when the signal has been sent to fire the solenoid. If a solenoid fails, it won’t detect it in the leds.. but hopefully you would hear that it wasn’t firing. :-)
@@DeanPark Hi Dave, Thank you for the quick reply, as you say hopefully you would notice if a solenoid didn't operate. I have subscribed to your channel and will be watching your videos. Regards, David.
Hi Dave. A wonderful piece of design and implementation. Can I assume that the Cobalt solenoid boards would not be necessary if you used Cobalt IP Digital point motors? Any other modifications necessary?
Great stuff. One question tho. Is there a power up sequence? More specifically, given that the points motors are powered momentary, how do the mimic boards know where things are when you power on ? Does the system have memory?
Hi Dave Alan again very imformative video it had me scratching my head at the beginning but I think I follow it now just a quick question for a man of your intellect I notice you used to use a Hornby rail master now you use the ecos system I am wondering which way to go at first I was sure it would be the railmaster but now ?????? As I am just getting back into the hobby which would you recommend I am no wizard with either so I would like to use the easiest one for now cheers
Cheers. I used the hornby elite and railmaster, which is good. But the ESU Ecos is amazing! Ok it’s not cheap, but you pay for the best. There’s so much capacity in it and it works really well with the dcc concepts equipment. It’s all down to what you want to spend. Lenz system is good too. As with everything.... there’s inevitably too much choice! Lol
How much dose the alpha system cost. Can u use standard peco points motors and can u use it with any DCC controllerz What switches are used on the signals? Where did you get the lazar cut at? Have you got an equipment list so can order my self. Are Heathcoats solder free and easy to set up
Oh Dave, you have left me with my head spinning, nevertheless allow me to congratulate you on what you have achieved with the state of the art control panel you have installed. Does this new equipment have a low failure rate ? Cheers Greg
Hi dave, what software did you use you design the control panel. And also if I wanted to just use switches and not ecos aswell could i do it without the decoders. many thanks.
Yes just use toggles direct to each point motor, but the lighting of the LED wouldn’t operate. I used serif draw plus, which I have had for years to design the board.
Hello, I am new to your channel but enjoyed going through a few of your videos. I I watched this one and noticed you use splicers. I was just wondering if you had a recommended supplier?
Quite the system Dave, very impressive.👍 This has, quite possibly, been covered in an earlier video (I still have some to watch) but will a red signal actually stop a train?
That’s brilliant dave, I’m taking it I don’t have to run led wiring from the controllers and would be just through the mimic boards via dcc ? Also the panel you had done did they engrave it and drill all the holes or did you do that part? Cheers Darrell
Hi only wires from led to mimic, there is only two wires from all of this to the ecos. That’s the Beauty of it. The holes are cut on the laser, so they are all Perfectly aligned and spaced. It’s wonderful technology.
Aston Napper-Woods hi it’s been designed by me and I’ve a mate who’s got a small laser cutter. But if you contact railway laser lines they might do commissions?
@@DeanPark thanks for you’re reply decided not to go for a system like this now lol fine manual because my layout isn’t too big! But thanks for the advice anyway.
My totting up gets me to £2256 for both control panels. This includes £600 for the ECOS, boards, perspex panels (est), mass sequencers, sniffers and point motors. I'm sure I'll have missed some things (I've not included signals themselves) so if you say £2500 then you control your train in style too! Looks amazing but it's a shame no mention of cost was made and this pertinent question was ignored.
Hi. I just stumbled across this comment when browsing my own video. So the question wasn’t ignored. It’s impossible to be on top of all comments and to keep up with notifications (of they even appear). Sure you can work out the cost by going to the retailer of these products. But I saved and collected these over a period of time. Buying some of the stuff over several years. So the cost, while significant was spread out. I assume you were using current costs when coming up with that figure? But that would Likely be more as as I said I bought over several years when prices were in most cases be cheaper. In some cases significantly so. So just like a lot of things in life. From cars, new sofas and family holidays, the cost doesn’t seem so painful when spread out, it becomes more affordable.
I could not finish the video. Give us a break with the ads, they pop up too many times. Ads could be necessary but too many of them just make a video unwatchable.
Wow a set of adds every four minutes, not bad for you I guess but that is 11 sets of adds to watch a 44 minute video. However I required a lot more than 44 minutes to watch it because of all the adds. Such a shame because your content was really great. But I kept losing the flow of it.
Total waste of time and money, indeed a heck of a lot of money, around 400% more than ANY analogue system. And it still doesn't operate the layout in a realistic way. Indeed NO DCC system can operate a model railway in a real life fashion, assuming you understand how real railways actually operate ! In other words there is still NO interface between moving trains and the signalling, which requires Track Circuits. Track circuits on my Analogue controlled layout cost 1p each, and literally only need a piece of wire !!!! And when I said 400% I meant FOUR HUNDRED PERCENT !!!
Reality check: it’s a model Railway! It’s supposed to bring joy and fun to the person ‘playing’ with it. We are not operating a real railway. It’s not all about Cost, it’s about enjoyment from building this and seeing it operate model trains. Analogue… ok. Stick with that if that does it for you. Personally digital does it for me and I suspect a majority of others. At least I don’t have to worry about isolating sections etc while using dcc. I’ve done the analogue thing back in the 90’s. No thanks. I am in the 21st century now. And I like it. So no, not total waste of time and money. Yes I ‘understand how a real railway’s actually operate’. But why not following the ‘real railway’ means it’s a waste of money is slightly bizarre. Why post this?
So if your DC controlled layout works in a ‘realistic’ way, then so can a DCC system as you just replace the analogue circuits with digital ones. The only valid point you have is cost, which is actually down to the individual’s budget. My Trainset does run in a realistic way if I so chose, with correct blocks, and correctly operating signals, and workings. I’m also happy to demonstrate this at any show my trainset attends if you’d like to see your theory proved invalid?
@@mikebuick2332 Real railways use complex "Block signalling" systems to ensure safety, and control the movement of ALL trains. (A bit like a normal model railway controller, with safety added). Early systems were mechanical, such as the "Absolute Block" system, used in conjunction with semaphore signals on lines that included passenger trains. The fundamental safety rule of "Absolute Block" is that only ONE train is allowed on EACH "running line" within the WHOLE area of the signalbox controlling that line. Irrespective of how many signals that box may have along its running line(s). In other words trains are specifically forbidden to follow each other from signal to signal. Something few modellers can understand !!! The MINIMUM number of semaphore signals needed for an "Absolute Block Post" (the signalbox) is: A Distant signal, followed by a Home signal, followed by a Starter signal, for EACH "running line". So if it's a regular two track railway, you have three signals on each "Running Line", which may cover an area of no more than roughly three miles of route, due to expansion & contraction problems in point rodding and steel signal wires. . The Home signal and the Starter signal (both red/white painted stop signals) must first be pulled to indicate a Clear Line, before the Distant (the black/yellow painted signal) can be cleared, to indicate a Clear Line right through the Block. In other words the "Interlocking" ensures the levers can only be pulled inside the box in the correct order. To ensure only ONE train (and safety) can ever be on this roughly three mile section of route covered by this signalbox !! So how can DCC replicate this "Absolute Block" method, or for that matter any other method. Such as "Track Circuit Block" which is used in conjunction with multi-aspect colour light signals. As its name implies this method requires "Track Circuits" to detect the presence & location of all trains, at any moment in time. It also ensures that each signal returns to red automatically when a train passes. This added safety feature above and beyond the "Absolute Block" system, now allows trains to follow each other safely from signal to signal. And of course, also allows a huge increase in the number of paths per hour on any given route. DCC has no method available to replicate any of the Block signalling systems used, including the two just exampled. Why not ? For the simple reason that the commercial manufacturers do not know what your layouts track plan is. And every layouts track plan would require a different set of "Interlocking". Just as every real life signal box has to have either its own unique mechanical equipment or with a computer signal box, unique software to deal with that boxes, track plan and the necessary "Interlocking" for that layout. Fleischmann (German RTR manufacturer) went bankrupt having spent over €2.5 Million trying to plug the gaping hole in DCC by greatly increasing the systems capacity. So it was as great as a PC. But still could not find a simple way for users to implement their trackplan into this expanded system, even though a CD with the necessary software was to be included. Becuase the possible permutations were in the Millions. (Fleischmann were sold to Roco over 10 years ago as a result). But I can, and have been applying a number of British Block Signalling systems to my exhibition layouts for near 40 years, including the two examples mentioned. For the simple reason I am a Railway Engineer, who has worked with a number of real railways around the World, and understand the basic wiring necessary for the job. However knowing what electrical equipment is necessary is the easy bit. Relays being the most complex item I need. However it takes weeks of careful thinking to identify what interlocking will be needed for a point or a signal, and the more optional routes there are, dramatically increases the number of "Interlocks" between items. Relays are the mechanism used for each "Interlock" because that's what real railways still use. Relays being simply a number of switches inside a little case, actuated by an electro magnet. So using a cheap one penny "track circuit" (a piece of wire connecting a small section of isolated rail to a relay). I can get a train to actuate the relay, which changes the switches inside a relay. Each switch in the relay may illuminate the red on a signal just passed, or illuminate the yellow or green LED on a previous signal. Or change the feed from one signals relay to a different relay at the next signal because you just changed the points and set the train along a different track. Of course this cannot be done when you have 16v AC in the rails, because AC behaves in a different way to Direct Current. DC has an advantage in that you can feed a piece of track with supplies from many different transformers (via rectifiers) without causing short circuits, as would happen if you used AC. DC you see will only return to the transformer it came from !!!! Having added the real life type Block System to a layout, I can let a complete novice try and screw it all up. By driving his train where he likes in contravention of real railway rules. The fun is watching the novice, when he discovers he simply can't do this. Or his train won't move, because he has tried to crash a red signal, and the real life type AWS system has stopped his train before a crash can occur. In addition to the block signalling relays, track circuits and wiring, I also use traditional methods such as a single Common Return cable for ALL items on the layout including controllers, signals, relays, point motors, which reduces wiring by around 45%. Cab Control is also used to allow more than one train to be driven along a particular line, by different controllers. Very helpful when adding/detaching vehicles from trains standing in stations, and used in conjunction with Kadee magnetic couplings on all stock. NOTE to avoid interference problems between various electrical items and the train controllers, each type of equipment has a separate transformer ! Happy Modelling 😝.
@@JamesSmith-mv9fp After reading through your very long winded reply, you’re forgetting the fact that computer software can ensure absolute block. I’ll let you read up on it as I can’t be arsed to write another 5 page essay
@@mikebuick2332 Of course it can, and that's the current problem with DCC, it does not currently have the capacity to do this. Fleischmann tried & failed going bankrupt in the process. Indeed any manufacturer who wants to change the current fundamental electronics of DCC, has by default to get all other DCC manufacturers to agree to the changes. Which was the main reason for Fleischmann going bankrupt. The huge NMRA (American model railroad club/society with near 1 Million members) refused to give Fleischmanns new product their seal of approval, without which the retailers would not stock the product !!! So the one opportunity to fill the gaping hole in DCC was buried.
Thank you for a very well set out and informative presentation.
Hi, thanks for watching and getting in touch. Cheers. Dave
Been looking at a lot of model railways videos on UA-cam just lately and it appears that roof trusses really are a model railways enthusiast's best friend.
I know nothing about DCC, nor do I really have an express interest in it. Howeved I always watch your videos with interest. In this case I would just like to say that this is one of the clearest presentations I have ever seen. I was entralled by the content and actually feel I understood exactly what you were demonstrating.
So good was this video that if I had the money and I was several years younger and starting a new layout, I would without a shadow of a doubt go DCC.
Thanks Dave
Stay safe. Cheers, Bob
A great piece of kit and control set up for Dean Park. You did a superb job in all aspects of how this worked out for you Dave, well done.
I've always found myself scratching my head over DCC accessory systems but your video certainly helps explain a process and system that doesn't require a computer science degree. A very informative and well structured video👍
Many thanks. Sorry for taking so long to see your comment. Dave
This was both fascinating and mind blowing - oh how my head hurts - and I can't even hazard a guess as to the cost and how that cost compares with the original DC solution! I'm certainly grateful for this and all the other videos that have helped me with my own efforts. Please take care and stay safe.
Absolutely incredible. Love what you have done and the explanation. I really like the use of the black mounting panel. Something to consider later on 👍🏼
Thanx Dave I will have to weigh it up and make a decision cheers
Seriously BIG boys toys now David! Love that control panel mate and it really does look the business and worth every penny 👍
All the best. John
Great detail from you controlpanel from DC to DCC !!
HC Treintje Herman from Belgium.
Congratulations Dave, of explaining this complex subject in a way that even I could understand, although having used DC sine the 1950's I'm unlikely to ever get into the World of DCC and all it entails. Regards...Bob
This is really my favourite Channel!
Thanks for your nice Videos,
it is very enlightening,
Waiting for your latest update.
Dean Park
Fantastic job Looks like the kind of thing the real Dean Park box would have too. Your explanation of its wiring and operation is very good. Anyone going into this system would be able to follow it through your video and the instructions. In a real box the points also have two ways of being set individual switches to move them as well as route setting. The Ecos does not route set but it does simulate that in a way. It is sure to give hours of fun routing trains in a more realistic way.
Nice job Dave. That looks so neat and clean now. Love the visual aspect of the LED’s give you on where the loco will go. Thanks for sharing and stay safe. Ken
I saw the photo on Facebook and have been waiting for he video since
Without doubt one of the best layouts on UA-cam and your control system is very impressive and all credit to you for having put everything together but I think it would be an absolute nightmare trying to trace a fault when one or more electronic components fail and I’m an Electrician with over forty years experience.
Great video Dave!, you explained the installation and operation really well, and the end result is fantastic. Thanks for sharing. Cheers Reggie.
Great video! Good to see our stuff going together and looking so good!
^RB DCCconcepts
Wow! DCC still baffles me. My Hornby Select is like some sort of alchemy but this is pure dark magic!
Hi Dave , great video and nice to see adaptation on Ecos as I have used one for eleven years and with over 130 points I use the onboard track mapping which runs into five pages. I would love to have a separate control panel but the Ecos originally did away with all that extra wiring. Technology has moved on since then as you have shown in this video.
Dave, what a video!! That system is brilliant. I’m yet to build my new layout but it is imminent. I had solenoid point motors on a previous layout and this video has just convinced me to keep them rather than go down the alternative routes available. Brilliant system and it does appear to be pretty simple. Spot on. Thank you for such a good explanation. 👍👍
Hi, sorry for taking sooooo long to reply. Just say this comment when I happened to look at this video again. Thanks for your kind words. Dave
@@DeanPark ha ha. No problem Dave. All the best. Ian.
Hi Dave - thanks for a very simple explanation of how your control panel works. Wish I had fitted the LEDs with the ability to show both red/green dependant on route setting. Cheers Euan
Fantastic Dave, looks the Biz =D
Three way points do take some thinking about. Really enjoyed seeing the set up of the control panel.
Wow really good to see how it was done , expressive skills Dave . I also loved the point joke thrown in at 14:15 😂 ‘that would be pointless’ when talking about points lol
impressive panel !
Excellent, very informative, Thank You
Great video - I find you really need to 'see' DCC Concepts stuff in action to get a feel for how it works, what it can do, and what else you need to buy. The text on the website is very difficult to understand and it gets frustrating where every other sentence they tell you X unit is all you'll ever need, only to say 'once you add three more, a power unit, a sniffer unit, an adapter, three Y cables and more...'
I think the touchpad controller you have is essentially a Märklin Central station 3 as this is made by esu for Märklin.
Interesting to watch. I use a similar system from Märklin with the K83 control boxes to control the points and signals. I can't afford a CS3 at the moment so use their mobile station 2 to control the boxes. It's much easier than using the old manual solenoid control systems.
That is impressive indeed, nice explaination too!
Cheers.
Absolutely superb 👍🏻👍🏻
You are wearing your jumper lol your A.C. unit must be doing a good job. Nice control panel as well .
Very impressive and I am sure you will have a great time working with it. I may have said this before, but I am old school and I am going to stick with DC. My points will be servo-operated using Arduino with Uno 3 boards. So not everything is manually operated and there will be no surface mounted point motors. I hope to be able to open and close the 6 bay Roundhouse doors in the same way. The turntable will be linked to the Uno 3 board to control the indexing. Most of my Loco's are from the 60s,70s, and 80s. I hope to be able to have 4 trains running at the same time. I can on my plan have 3 at the moment, I am working on the fourth. Very Interesting video and you are keeping me up to date what is available. Martin. (Thailand)
Your craft skills certainly paid off Dave :)
Clear explanation, thank you. Given me food for thought as I’m about to embark on a brand new fully DCC layout.
Glad it was useful :-)
Excellent Dave very impressive 👍
Hi Dave great video mate I found it every interesting I am putting in dapol Semaphore signals working on my model of stranraer harbour station I am waiting for the switches to come so I can start work on it mate stay safe and well Dave clive
Hi Dave
Firstly great video very well presented. well done
We can now do the 3 way lights, straight from the mimic, it just involves some alteration on the leds and a diode.
if any one would like to know how just send us an Email asking.
Regards
John.
DCC Concepts
John Whiteside Hi thanks. that’s great to know John. Technology is always moving forward to allow these things to be done, thanks for your assistance in getting this control panel to work. It looks great and is great fun to operate. Dave
It looks more like a space ship control panel then a model railway control panel but to be honest i could not do anything like that great work.
Hi Dave, a really interesting and helpful vid. I had been thinking about re-wiring my points to be controlled by my Z21, rather than by a separate bus and power source with Peco switches, and this answered many of my questions. Enjoy your new set-up, cheers, Stu.
Cheers stu (sorry it’s taken so long to reply, just saw this comment). Dave
Hi Dave, no problem, the video was really helpful. Really enjoying your uploads, cheers, Stu.
Great video Dave That is a brilliant control station must have taken some time to put together and get it all working
Very impressive!!
Morning Dave. Hope you and all of your family are keeping well? I think it's everyone's dream to have a control panel like you've got as we all strive to mimic the real railway be it mechanical or electronic like yours 🤣 Well done for an excellent job and explaining in simple terms what you've done 👍🏻 Have a fantastic weekend until the next episode. Cheers as always Stevie 😎
Cheers Stevie.
Hi have watched this particular video many times, can you let me know where you got the perspex laser'd?? Thanks in advance. Richard
Hi I designed it myself and my mate has a small laser he let me do it on. Cheers.
wow great control board, I am very surrprised the Dcc Consepts accessory boards do not allow for three way points...it's strange as the boards opperate in the same way as the Esu accessory boards..I have three way points working on two addresses with mag coils switches with no problems. {it my be the bridge board converting to the Lnet interface cable that may not allow this}.
Dave, I don’t have an ecos DCC controller and am not sure if my controller has this functionality. Is it possible to control all this with the toggle switches on DCC without going though the controller? Or is the controller essential for setting this all up and controlling it?
I’m assuming the controller is a fairly essential part in this. Cheers, Rich.
Great video. Very informative. But how did you make your perspex control panel...maybe you can do a video on it
I designed it on the pc and got a mate to cut it on his laser cutter.
WOW Awesome stuff
Can you please tell me where you had that great mimic panel made please. It's just what I'm looking for.
Hi, I made it myself. I designed it and got it cut on my friends small laser.
Brilliant video Dave. I want to do something similar to that and I appreciate nearer the date I will contact DCC Concepts to put my plan over. Im wanting to use my NCE Power Cab just to control my trains, having at 5 running at any one time. But I would like to control my points through a DCC Concepts Mimic Panel like yourselves by passing the power cab. Preferably one that you operate by the lights itself on the panel, I think that can be done. Likewise I want to use only Peco PL-10 point motors as I like the sound of the points changing, no quiet ones in my time.
Really interesting video, unbelievable how much wiring and work you save yourselves.
Regards Chris
Cheers (sorry it’s taken so long to reply, just saw this comment). Dave
Hi Dave , I still have the Hornby Elite would the dcc concepts Alpha setup work in conjunction with this?
In all honesty I’m not 100% sure. Contact the guys at dcc concepts and they are excellent at helping you out.
I would like to know how to instal Dcc +sound in a TGV. Thank you so much
Really informative video and most useful. I’m in the embryonic stages of going DCC and the control panel that your constructed looks really smart. Just out of curiosity did you just get a local company to laser cut the panel and what thickness was the panel and where did you purchase the red green LED’s. Sorry for the questions but really inspired by the video. Many thanks.
Hi. Thanks. LED are Dcc concepts dual leds. Green/red.
Panel is 3mm acrylic
My mate has a laser cutter for his home business, so he kindly cuts it. I’m lucky in that respect.
Cheers
Dave
Very good.
Wow that’s amazing Dave! Would love to know where you got your panel done, I’m in need of a mimic panel for my layout, no idea how to go about it though
Great Video! Excuse me for butting in, I am interested in your initial thoughts. Have you ever tried - Januke Henatalie Formula (erm, check it on google should be there)? It is an awesome one off product for operating a model railroad without the normal expense. Ive heard some extraordinary things about it and my work buddy at very last got great success with it.
was there a bird nest in with all those wires. lol
Amazing.
This is nuts, all those electronics to achieve basically what you had before. Your panel is beautiful but you could have used the toggle switches directly with your points and cut out the expensive DCC concepts middleman. Now I love technology but this seems crazy to me. Don't get me wrong, I think it's all admirable stuff but overkill. But each to their own, I do enjoy your channel and I feel a little bad saying this stuff, but I do admire your work.
Hi. Sure the points operated before but not through the ecos. This way I can use the ecos to have control if I want, or the toggles.
The lights are a more visual way of knowing which way the point is thrown. I can also see the route set up, Ie if they are all greens I know where the train is going and if it’s got all of the points set correctly. I like the more visual display that I get with the LED too.
Yeah it does the same basic thing of controlling the points but now it’s higher tech and, well I like the look of it lol.
I suppose.,as you say, each to their own. I just thought I’d go for a set up that had worked so well for the storage yard control panel. I do like to try new technology.
Thanks for getting in touch though. Sorry I didn’t see your comment earlier. It’s great to hear you enjoy my channel. Thanks for watching my stuff.
Cheers
Dave
Hi, I’ve been extending my layout using the same setup as you are using, ie. ECoS, DCC solenoid decoder and Peco motors. I have come to a problem which you seem to have overcome namely the three way point which the ECoS programmes sequentially for the two motor but you can’t have both decoders listening or they will the same address, how did you overcome this?
Hi. Treat the three way point as two separate points on the ecos. Giving them two different addresses. Don’t use the three way icon on the ecos. Use two normal point icons. Hope this helps. So sorry for taking so long to reply. I just stumbled across this comment when watching the video again myself. Dave
42:19 You appear to have missed a trick in that setting point 14 on the Three-way does NOT set point 12 below it thereby creating a conflicting route.
I could have done, but chose to keep it separate for a very good reason. A loco can cross point 14 towards point 12, but stop to allow trains to pass on the lines at both ends of the loco. It allows a bit of flexibility. It was all thought out during the design of this system. The same with points 7&8 at the other end using the due mind crossing. All thought out beforehand.
@@DeanPark Fair enough, sounds like a reasonable compromise, though in prototypical circumstances that would be Verboten AF!
If the signals actually stop the trains rather than just being 'cosmetic' maybe it's possible to interlock with R9 as the loco straddles that line . . .
(I been playing a lot of Simsig, see, and you get to know what's what in route-setting . . . sorry)
Which company did you use to make your custom acrylic panel? I’m looking to do similar but not having much luck finding someone to do it
Hi, designed by me. Cut on a laser cutter my mate has.
Great video Dave. Where did the laser cut acrylic board come from please? I need one of those! All that DCC Concepts stuff is very easy to install and use isn’t it?
Tase I have bought from www.theplasticman.co.uk. I would never use DCC concepts equipment, too unreliable
Ian Owens thanks Ian. Out of interest why do you say that their stuff is too unreliable?
I see what you did for the lights with the latching thingy but not how you programmed the three way
You have to treat it as two points. As it’s got two point motors
Hi, emailed DCC Concepts and sorted it, thanks!
The board looks amazing and is really well explained! You mentioned your signals being automated using the Heathcote electronics, have you done a video on these. I tried to find one but couldn't.
Try my previous video, Dean Park 254, I look at them during that video :-)
@@DeanPark Thanks! I hadn't got that far through 254 as I got too excited about 255!
Looks fantastic do you still have your Hornby elite
Hi. No I gave it to a mate to use for his sons new layout.
Hi Dave, amazing! I remember back in the day when everyone was raving about how good the H&M duette was, this is light years away. Is the number display in the centre of the panel from one of the boards or is it an additional one? Thanks for explaining the system, regards Bobby 'T'.
Hi Dave, A very informative video on the use of DCC Concepts equipment and the modelling electronics latching unit. Your control panel is excellent. Would I be correct in thinking that the system presumes a point has been thrown and changes the LED accordingly? And if you had a point motor failure or a point that didn't fully throw it would still show as thrown. I know solenoid point motors a very reliable but I have had a peco point fail occasionally or something obstructing the blades stopping full throw. Regards, David.
Hi, it will only change the led when the signal has been sent to fire the solenoid. If a solenoid fails, it won’t detect it in the leds.. but hopefully you would hear that it wasn’t firing. :-)
@@DeanPark Hi Dave, Thank you for the quick reply, as you say hopefully you would notice if a solenoid didn't operate.
I have subscribed to your channel and will be watching your videos. Regards, David.
Good evening I've been told the ecos dosen't work well with some decoders have you had any of this troubles
Hi. No these work well with the ecos.
Hi Dave layout is amazing. I am about to do the same to my layout, l wax wondering where did you get the black panels made up. Thanks
Hi, designed it myself. Mate laser cut it on his small machine.
Hi Dave. A wonderful piece of design and implementation. Can I assume that the Cobalt solenoid boards would not be necessary if you used Cobalt IP Digital point motors? Any other modifications necessary?
Hi, yeah the solenoid decoders are just to link to solenoid point motors, :-)
Great stuff. One question tho. Is there a power up sequence? More specifically, given that the points motors are powered momentary, how do the mimic boards know where things are when you power on ? Does the system have memory?
Hi, they have an element of memory and start up how they were left upon shut down. :-)
Hi Dave Alan again very imformative video it had me scratching my head at the beginning but I think I follow it now just a quick question for a man of your intellect I notice you used to use a Hornby rail master now you use the ecos system I am wondering which way to go at first I was sure it would be the railmaster but now ?????? As I am just getting back into the hobby which would you recommend I am no wizard with either so I would like to use the easiest one for now cheers
Cheers. I used the hornby elite and railmaster, which is good. But the ESU Ecos is amazing! Ok it’s not cheap, but you pay for the best. There’s so much capacity in it and it works really well with the dcc concepts equipment. It’s all down to what you want to spend. Lenz system is good too. As with everything.... there’s inevitably too much choice! Lol
How much dose the alpha system cost. Can u use standard peco points motors and can u use it with any DCC controllerz
What switches are used on the signals?
Where did you get the lazar cut at?
Have you got an equipment list so can order my self.
Are Heathcoats solder free and easy to set up
Oh Dave, you have left me with my head spinning, nevertheless allow me to congratulate you on what you have achieved with the state of the art control panel you have installed. Does this new equipment have a low failure rate ? Cheers Greg
Hi dave, what software did you use you design the control panel. And also if I wanted to just use switches and not ecos aswell could i do it without the decoders. many thanks.
Yes just use toggles direct to each point motor, but the lighting of the LED wouldn’t operate. I used serif draw plus, which I have had for years to design the board.
Great video very helpful. Question tho what was the green and silver streamline train you ran?
APT-E :-)
Great video, Nice Mimic board and layout. Can you tell me where you got your Mimic board made ?
I designed it. Mate has a small laser cutter.
Hello, I am new to your channel but enjoyed going through a few of your videos. I I watched this one and noticed you use splicers. I was just wondering if you had a recommended supplier?
Hi. I use rapid electronics.
Quite the system Dave, very impressive.👍 This has, quite possibly, been covered in an earlier video (I still have some to watch) but will a red signal actually stop a train?
No. It wont physically stop the train. That’s up to the driver lol
That’s brilliant dave, I’m taking it I don’t have to run led wiring from the controllers and would be just through the mimic boards via dcc ? Also the panel you had done did they engrave it and drill all the holes or did you do that part? Cheers Darrell
Hi only wires from led to mimic, there is only two wires from all of this to the ecos. That’s the Beauty of it. The holes are cut on the laser, so they are all Perfectly aligned and spaced. It’s wonderful technology.
DaveClass47 thanks Dave, sorry for so many questions but I’m just a the stage of best way to connect dcc controllers to mimic panel , cheers Darrell
Hi Dave.
Brilliant video.
What company did you use for the laser cutting of your control panel? I am looking to do the same.
Regards.
Aston Napper-Woods hi it’s been designed by me and I’ve a mate who’s got a small laser cutter. But if you contact railway laser lines they might do commissions?
DaveClass47 Hi,
Brilliant thanks I may give them a contact.
Can You Use it with the hornby elite dcc contoller or if not without a dcc controller?
Hornby elite does allow assessors and point decoders to be used. But you’d need to check with dcc concepts to find out specifics.
@@DeanPark thanks for you’re reply decided not to go for a system like this now lol fine manual because my layout isn’t too big! But thanks for the advice anyway.
If you don’t mind me asking what was rough cost of that lot for both panels?
My totting up gets me to £2256 for both control panels. This includes £600 for the ECOS, boards, perspex panels (est), mass sequencers, sniffers and point motors. I'm sure I'll have missed some things (I've not included signals themselves) so if you say £2500 then you control your train in style too! Looks amazing but it's a shame no mention of cost was made and this pertinent question was ignored.
Stu Findlow i think you’re way out with the cost.
Hi. I just stumbled across this comment when browsing my own video. So the question wasn’t ignored. It’s impossible to be on top of all comments and to keep up with notifications (of they even appear).
Sure you can work out the cost by going to the retailer of these products. But I saved and collected these over a period of time. Buying some of the stuff over several years. So the cost, while significant was spread out. I assume you were using current costs when coming up with that figure? But that would
Likely be more as as I said I bought over several years when prices were in most cases be cheaper. In some cases significantly so.
So just like a lot of things in life. From cars, new sofas and family holidays, the cost doesn’t seem so painful when spread out, it becomes more affordable.
Very impressive! How much did it all cost ?
I saved up stuff over a period of time. It would be hard to give an actual cost.
Very nice system Dave, was it quite expensive?
Erm; not cheap. Bit saved up the kit over a period of time to make it more affordable.
How much do you want for your old peco levers ?
Hi, the red and yellow ones?
Message me on daveclass47@gmail.com. I’ve the switch boxes too etc.
I could not finish the video. Give us a break with the ads, they pop up too many times.
Ads could be necessary but too many of them just make a video unwatchable.
UA-cam place these ads. I will look at the settings. Thanks.
Wow a set of adds every four minutes, not bad for you I guess but that is 11 sets of adds to watch a 44 minute video. However I required a lot more than 44 minutes to watch it because of all the adds. Such a shame because your content was really great. But I kept losing the flow of it.
Total waste of time and money, indeed a heck of a lot of money, around 400% more than ANY analogue system. And it still doesn't operate the layout in a realistic way. Indeed NO DCC system can operate a model railway in a real life fashion, assuming you understand how real railways actually operate ! In other words there is still NO interface between moving trains and the signalling, which requires Track Circuits. Track circuits on my Analogue controlled layout cost 1p each, and literally only need a piece of wire !!!!
And when I said 400% I meant FOUR HUNDRED PERCENT !!!
Reality check: it’s a model Railway! It’s supposed to bring joy and fun to the person ‘playing’ with it. We are not operating a real railway.
It’s not all about Cost, it’s about enjoyment from building this and seeing it operate model trains. Analogue… ok. Stick with that if that does it for you. Personally digital does it for me and I suspect a majority of others. At least I don’t have to worry about isolating sections etc while using dcc. I’ve done the analogue thing back in the 90’s. No thanks. I am in the 21st century now. And I like it.
So no, not total waste of time and money. Yes I ‘understand how a real railway’s actually operate’. But why not following the ‘real railway’ means it’s a waste of money is slightly bizarre.
Why post this?
So if your DC controlled layout works in a ‘realistic’ way, then so can a DCC system as you just replace the analogue circuits with digital ones. The only valid point you have is cost, which is actually down to the individual’s budget. My Trainset does run in a realistic way if I so chose, with correct blocks, and correctly operating signals, and workings. I’m also happy to demonstrate this at any show my trainset attends if you’d like to see your theory proved invalid?
@@mikebuick2332 Real railways use complex "Block signalling" systems to ensure safety, and control the movement of ALL trains. (A bit like a normal model railway controller, with safety added). Early systems were mechanical, such as the "Absolute Block" system, used in conjunction with semaphore signals on lines that included passenger trains.
The fundamental safety rule of "Absolute Block" is that only ONE train is allowed on EACH "running line" within the WHOLE area of the signalbox controlling that line. Irrespective of how many signals that box may have along its running line(s). In other words trains are specifically forbidden to follow each other from signal to signal. Something few modellers can understand !!!
The MINIMUM number of semaphore signals needed for an "Absolute Block Post" (the signalbox) is: A Distant signal, followed by a Home signal, followed by a Starter signal, for EACH "running line". So if it's a regular two track railway, you have three signals on each "Running Line", which may cover an area of no more than roughly three miles of route, due to expansion & contraction problems in point rodding and steel signal wires.
.
The Home signal and the Starter signal (both red/white painted stop signals) must first be pulled to indicate a Clear Line, before the Distant (the black/yellow painted signal) can be cleared, to indicate a Clear Line right through the Block. In other words the "Interlocking" ensures the levers can only be pulled inside the box in the correct order. To ensure only ONE train (and safety) can ever be on this roughly three mile section of route covered by this signalbox !!
So how can DCC replicate this "Absolute Block" method, or for that matter any other method. Such as "Track Circuit Block" which is used in conjunction with multi-aspect colour light signals. As its name implies this method requires "Track Circuits" to detect the presence & location of all trains, at any moment in time. It also ensures that each signal returns to red automatically when a train passes. This added safety feature above and beyond the "Absolute Block" system, now allows trains to follow each other safely from signal to signal. And of course, also allows a huge increase in the number of paths per hour on any given route.
DCC has no method available to replicate any of the Block signalling systems used, including the two just exampled. Why not ? For the simple reason that the commercial manufacturers do not know what your layouts track plan is. And every layouts track plan would require a different set of "Interlocking". Just as every real life signal box has to have either its own unique mechanical equipment or with a computer signal box, unique software to deal with that boxes, track plan and the necessary "Interlocking" for that layout.
Fleischmann (German RTR manufacturer) went bankrupt having spent over €2.5 Million trying to plug the gaping hole in DCC by greatly increasing the systems capacity. So it was as great as a PC. But still could not find a simple way for users to implement their trackplan into this expanded system, even though a CD with the necessary software was to be included. Becuase the possible permutations were in the Millions. (Fleischmann were sold to Roco over 10 years ago as a result).
But I can, and have been applying a number of British Block Signalling systems to my exhibition layouts for near 40 years, including the two examples mentioned. For the simple reason I am a Railway Engineer, who has worked with a number of real railways around the World, and understand the basic wiring necessary for the job. However knowing what electrical equipment is necessary is the easy bit. Relays being the most complex item I need. However it takes weeks of careful thinking to identify what interlocking will be needed for a point or a signal, and the more optional routes there are, dramatically increases the number of "Interlocks" between items.
Relays are the mechanism used for each "Interlock" because that's what real railways still use. Relays being simply a number of switches inside a little case, actuated by an electro magnet. So using a cheap one penny "track circuit" (a piece of wire connecting a small section of isolated rail to a relay). I can get a train to actuate the relay, which changes the switches inside a relay. Each switch in the relay may illuminate the red on a signal just passed, or illuminate the yellow or green LED on a previous signal. Or change the feed from one signals relay to a different relay at the next signal because you just changed the points and set the train along a different track.
Of course this cannot be done when you have 16v AC in the rails, because AC behaves in a different way to Direct Current. DC has an advantage in that you can feed a piece of track with supplies from many different transformers (via rectifiers) without causing short circuits, as would happen if you used AC. DC you see will only return to the transformer it came from !!!!
Having added the real life type Block System to a layout, I can let a complete novice try and screw it all up. By driving his train where he likes in contravention of real railway rules. The fun is watching the novice, when he discovers he simply can't do this. Or his train won't move, because he has tried to crash a red signal, and the real life type AWS system has stopped his train before a crash can occur.
In addition to the block signalling relays, track circuits and wiring, I also use traditional methods such as a single Common Return cable for ALL items on the layout including controllers, signals, relays, point motors, which reduces wiring by around 45%. Cab Control is also used to allow more than one train to be driven along a particular line, by different controllers. Very helpful when adding/detaching vehicles from trains standing in stations, and used in conjunction with Kadee magnetic couplings on all stock.
NOTE to avoid interference problems between various electrical items and the train controllers, each type of equipment has a separate transformer !
Happy Modelling 😝.
@@JamesSmith-mv9fp After reading through your very long winded reply, you’re forgetting the fact that computer software can ensure absolute block. I’ll let you read up on it as I can’t be arsed to write another 5 page essay
@@mikebuick2332 Of course it can, and that's the current problem with DCC, it does not currently have the capacity to do this. Fleischmann tried & failed going bankrupt in the process. Indeed any manufacturer who wants to change the current fundamental electronics of DCC, has by default to get all other DCC manufacturers to agree to the changes. Which was the main reason for Fleischmann going bankrupt. The huge NMRA (American model railroad club/society with near 1 Million members) refused to give Fleischmanns new product their seal of approval, without which the retailers would not stock the product !!! So the one opportunity to fill the gaping hole in DCC was buried.