Our Discord - discord.gg/xThWx8Q My tentative theory is that based on the comment sections of our videos, lot's of the people here would benefit from the ability to chat to each other in real-time. I've met people who have had/still have a huge impact on me and who I have developed close and collaborative relationships with online first, that I've also gone on to meet in person. We live in interesting times where that is no longer a strange thing. Hopefully this discord will be somewhere where all of you can do the same - interesting chats, find new and useful connections etc. Also my assumption is that this community will grow organically and become self sustaining if it's going to exist at all. So think of me as an intermittently present creator who often totally forgets about a planet he's made then quickly rushes to make sure they haven't turned on each other. Finally, an ENTP is running the server... god help us. ~ Nathan
Nice, I've experienced similar with online relationships.. 🔥 And chuckled when u said the introverts need prodding, as this ENFP seems to do that naturally.. 🤣
My INTP and EISTJ sons really laugh at me too. Thinking types look at me like I am living in a bubble. Yes, IF I am not optimistic, I can be depressed.
One of the reasons for ENFPs to go on a dark moment of their lives or turn insensitive, is when we realize the contrast between our idealized world and the real one. It's like some sort of recoil, when we have so much optimism, it's destroyed by realism, and we end up being very pessimistic. The happiness we give is proportional to the sadness we get.
As an ENFP I have always seen through the corrupt political, social, education and diplomatic systems. Sometimes I feel nothing will change unless it does all come crashing down 😭
Personally, my view is this (one ENFP to another): if the system crashes down, something needs to fill that vacuum, and it won't be the most ideal system, it will be the most predatory and ruthless one that will fill it most quickly, as the speed of fear is quicker than the speed of hope. But where the speed of fear wears off, the speed of hope keeps going. In other, less abstract terms, if we want to fix these issues with the system, we need to make calculated adjustments that lead to better outcomes, making the system work bottom-up, not top-down. Only when the bottom has the power will it never see its conditions hurt so easily in favor of those at the top.
@@Mitchthemysteryman yes mate u are right. And the way my political ways are...I feel like work is being done from down to up. Fuck does that mean we will be saved cuz once like the existing system gets in the radar of ppl and majority wants to get it out, we will be saved? Niceeeeeeeeee
Simbon Rongpipi wowww I’m the same but reversed when I was young I was an ENTP then BAAM EMOTIONS HAPPENED (and I became all sad/maybe depressed) and I just somehow morphed into an ENFP🤣 I lowkey wanna go back tho🗿🗿🗿
I am an ENFP and since discovering that I learned a lot about myself...but one thing is that I disagree with is "logic-less-ness". I found out about myself that in stressful situations or in dangerous situations I switch to cold logic. I went to medical high school, and I am a trained nurse (even though I am currently doing my Master's degree in Science) when someone is hurt - my emotions turn off and I act completely logical. And I have come to rely on that. In a lot of situations, I rely on my knowledge that is in fact very science-based.
agreed with you (ENFP speaking here), but you must consider that some ENFPs develop some areas better than others, and logic-less-ness can be one of them.
Me too!!! I thought I was alone in this (switching to cold logic). My family always talks about how easily (and scarily) I can do this, juxtaposed to my typical jovial, happy outlook-life self.
My wife who is an ENFP sometimes shows her inner chaotic fire. Usually the nicest person you've ever met. But get her riled up about any injustice and she is inches away from killing someone in a fit of righteous anger.
I remember once going on a tirade about pelmets (the curtain thing), and my late husband (ISTJ) just waited calmly til I was done and simply said, “I didn’t realise you felt so strongly about curtains.” Then we both laughed.
as an ENFP… here’s some more bad things about us: when we spend too much time alone we can become extremely disconnected from reality and run from it! or we can start to think too deeply about reality and get upset or depressed with a lot of frustrations. we are pros when it comes to hide our feelings even though we’re dying to talk about. we can easily cross the line on jokes to hide our weaknesses! when we get discouraged we just tend to give up and make fun out of it assuming the place of the sputid worthless clown and it can be really hard to make us feel better about ourselves and believe on that dream again… we’re moody and it’s not personal! most of the time it’s about ourselves and we don’t need exactly someone who will fix it but someone to just listen and give us support. EXTRA: we just wanna be loved and feel that we’re important EDIT: I figured out I’m actually an ENTP but all I said still checks 😅
I've saw very many cases of Dark side of ENFPs. They become violent and too much upset or angry if they hurt from other person. Usually they are Optimistic and kind bright personality but unhealthy ENFPs are gloomy and dark pale face and think themselves wrongly and unrealistic idea and presume other people's intentions and attack them irrationally and illogically quarrel
@@박-j8h that's exactly how I was in my teenage years. It can go away if a person sets a goal to change themselves for the better, heal themselves, let go of this hatred, control their emotions more and etc. It's not easy, but there's always more to us than just this side or that side, so we can always develop the good ones and fix the worse ones ✌
The accuracy in this video scares me. I often feel agitated and annoyed when those around me are not optimistic,I guess it comes from me forcing myself to feel optimistic even though I know cruel things can be. I hate the system and want change but then struggle with how to go about this. Every time something wrong happens I feel my heart break because I held onto hope that it would or wouldn’t happen
We accept that people are flawed, and will talk about it, but still ignore it for the sake of optimism. We know that humankind has always been one way, but that hasn't stopped us from having fun before... So why should it now?
INFP here, (I think lol) my ENFP friend has definitely been one of the best things in my life. Her weird extravagant quirkiness embodies what I love to see most in people and our conversations often feel more like a deep understanding. While it's painful to see her dark thoughts come out, I often can't agree more when she voices them.
It's true because sometimes when negativity around me(I'M AN ENFP 🎉🎊🎊 ) .I just become a hermit crab ..hiding myself and processing things but when I can't do that I become someone who knows how to destroy it all ... Sometimes it scares me ..because I know when rainbow goes down darkness takes over ... Don't think that ENFPs are always unicorns ... When we go for hunting ..darkness is everything you'll have
As an ENFP, it’s so true that the dark side possibilities exist so closely and easily flipped with the light side. As someone who won’t even kill spiders, I could easily see myself as Liam Neeson’s character in Taken. Not kidding 😂
Cool vid dude. I'm an ENFP and mostly agree with you. We are so full of rage and passion that we don't always stop and make sure we are facilitating it correctly. And when are expectations aren't met then we feel ineffective and lose it. After that point we just go hung hoe on everything that bothers us because we are not satisfied. It's not logical, but we are aware that in the back of our minds that doesn't matter, because logic is a boring box to live in and you'd have to be complacent to live there. Don't underestimate a dark ENFP just call the infjs to deal with it it's your only hope lol.
I am definitely optimistic but when I got depressed, it was really hard to get out of it. Still healing rn tbh. Things you said resonate with me a lot.
Pretty great analysis! As an ENFP I know that I can get very discouraged that SJs have built the systems of the world and have put all these annoying "rules" in place. Not only must the rules be followed, but you have to do paperwork! Lots of paperwork. What's an ENFP to do? Follow your dreams only to discover how hard it can be to go against the grain. Sometimes really fun! as you point out. The adventure, sometimes recklessness, and freedom is probably worth it. If you can't break through and earn a living while remaining free the depression that comes realizing you have to do the paperwork, and maybe even work for the man, can lead to becoming like the Joker sometimes. Usually though it's self destruction through Nihilism and selfishness. Best to keep smiling, be thankful, and do some of that SI work to be a more well rounded person who then can be a force for good! Then you can follow your dreams and be very happy succeeding at what you love to do! Entertaining those around you as you do... :)
Awesome comment, thank you very much for taking the time to leave it. A cynical or gloomy ENFP is a very weird creature to observe and indeed a very dangerous one ~ Nathan
Orange Ziggy Si deals with seeing things as they are. Sensory. ENFPs, or at least me, are famous for the rose colored glasses and dreaming, but when it comes to the day to day grind it’s not so fun. Take a creative ENFP chasing their dreams and get them to do the paperwork (for example) and you have a pretty amazing combination! ENFPs are capable of hard work, don’t get me wrong, but it’s easier for them when the vision is strong enough that they don’t get too bored with the monotonous stuff... Nathan can probably explain it better 🙂 Cheers!
I just went door to door for Bernie Sanders, but I'm a disgruntled ENFJ. Still, given the state of the world, not very shocking to be losing optimism. I wish you luck!
Thing is, as long as you worry and invest too much energy in things that are ultimately outside your control - you will struggle to find peace. In the end, people will do things that you don't want them to do, and adversity will always be waiting at your doorstep. If you want things to change, focus on what you control. That is, your actions and your judgements. You choose how you approach the world and how want to react to events, and you choose what events mean to you. There is nothing else you have direct control over. Good luck to you too.
(INFP) My best friend is an ENFP. No one I keep has the coolest most "random" ideas in which I then do most of the research to get off the ground. Hanging with her is subjecting yourself to a barrage of "I realized, OMG's followed by anecdotes, and I wanna do this now". This is the PERFECT recipe to keep anyone with Savior Ne entertained for hours on end. I, interact with the things in the real world helping her ideas come to fruition. She, is the person for who's tribe I belong to and am valued member of.
@@PhotoRubio the biggest idea is to buy a 300 acre ranch on the border of Oregon and Idaho and make a men's summer camp. A course where you build an AR15 then study tactics and basic rifle marksmanship. Another course where you outfit your brand new Toyota Tacoma (or jeep or bronco) then spend a week learning to plot routes, recover your vehicle and some survival skills. I've found the ranch and it had been for sale for 15 years
Thanks for the video!! This seems accurate. I feel like, in some ways, I am able to feel so positive or happy in my life only because I first had my idealism crushed. Humanity is stuck, things are doomed, everyone is deeply flawed and most of us don’t try hard enough to be better, etc. I learned these realities, and it was devastating. For a while, I was just sad and angry about the truth (dark ENFP phase lol). But then, overtime, it led to the positivity I can often feel and express. It’s like ok, if the truth is so bleak, then people’s efforts to be “good” (when they try to improve themselves, when they think of others, etc.) are beautiful. I can deeply appreciate something simple like someone apologizing when they bump into someone else or seeing someone hold the door for someone else. Those little things strike me as effortful and kind in the face of such a difficult world. For any ENFPs in the realization stage, don’t get stuck in that sad and angry place. You’ll come out ok on the other side of the realization if you hang in there and keep going. And relapses back into darkness are normal and expected, so don’t think the journey isn’t worth it because you find the sadness of things overwhelming sometimes. Just keep forward momentum-use that ability to envision different futures to give yourself hope. Don’t go dark forever 😆❤️.
Thank you for this comment. It's really awesome to get the feedback for real life versions of the types and to receive some... knowledge bombs ~ Nathan
Willy Wonka and Mad Hatter in one part of their movies, had a pretty dark emotion eating up their natural optimistic, idealist and creative behaviour. When I watched this scenes while child, I didn't notice until now that because I'm an ENFP, that gave me a terribly bad feeling because I was empathizing with them.
Agree. ENFP here. When triggering things happen, I cry out my emotions, then emotionlessly, logically talk myself into getting up and doing the bare minimum that is required to survive. And people don’t believe the happy-go-lucky life of the party has that dark hidden side under all that optimism. It’s pretty much unfathomable for them. When I get pushed to that limit, I habitually reach for the comfort of people who I know will talk me out of whatever dumb shit I’m about to do. Those people in that moment become my moral compass. Nothing else matters. Everything else becomes insignificant and irrelevant. Meaningless. All that optimism gets shut down. This is accurate
As an ENFP I have always said my alignment is chaotic good. 😂 I never really saw how that could really be a bad thing until your vid tho... very insightful. 😁
There’s an ENFP for every introvert. You just need to find your pair, my infp found me and I can say proudly I’m the best shit that ever happened to her
I've had to crawl back from cynicism / depression 5 times now in my life. And this pretty much nails why the world seemed so deeply disturbing during those times. I'm actually learning to respect structure and tradition recently though and see it as a jumping off point from which to build (literally... because I'm in architecture). Without all those iterations of tradition I wouldn't have the endless concepts to explore which I love. It really does make the world seem hopeful again :)
Not an enfp but I'm gonna agree with what u said about youth idealism and reality... it's kinda strange and uncomfortable on the step between teenage and the 20s, even thou the 20s is considered the youth as well. I'm a person who is starting the 20s in this world current chaos and it's well... it's something.
I agree it's an eternal issue. Idealism is excellent as a North Star to aim towards but instantly becomes destructive when is genuinely sought out as a goal ~ Nathan
As usual, this sums me up.😂 I hate negativity, but at times it can’t be avoided. When it finally breaks through my ideals and grand schemes it threatens to consume me whole!
I am watching a video about ENFPs now, it is past 5:30am and I have not slept at all. I also just joined the discord. I’m INFJ which implies that I just spent 80% thinking about what I *really* want and thinking about literally everything not only as a subject but as a topic which I did. Cool video.
I'm reading a comment by an INFJ (about an ENFP) who's awake after 5:30am whilst being also awake past 5:30am sending this comment... see you on the discord! ~ Nathan
"Whereas the ENTP brand of chaos often has an underlying logic to it, the ENFP brand of chaos is only tethered to... their feelings which can be... fickle." at 4:48 More like it's tethered to their... values, which are... solid. (agree with everything else though...)
@@MylesKillis I guess I've changed my mind about what I said 4 months ago (I only started learning about MBTI 9 months ago, so my opinions haven't fully developed). I do believe now that ENFPs values aren't as strong/stable as INFPs (because Fi is only in second position for ENFP). But likewise, I would say that the logic (Ti) of ENTPs is also not as stable as INTPs. Both ENPs value Ne (freedom/change) more than either Ti or Fi which makes their logic and values more fickle than INPs. Just like ENFPs, ENTPs can also change their stances/point of views easily. At least the ENTPs I've debated with can change their opinion after a single debate. And ENTPs are also known as the type who would argue for things they don't believe in, just to play the devil's advocate. So in a way, ENTPs are also like children who can't make up their mind or who make rules as they play the game. Even though ENPs aren't as stable with their Ti and Fi, there are obviously strengths in having Ne in the first position (which I won't go into detail because there are various sources from the internet).
@@chickadddee What I mean to say is, anyone with Ne tends to not want to conform or prefers being rebellious or go against the grain. What I see is that in INPs, that rebelliousness is more constant/enduring/stable. ENPs take that rebelliousness to another level, changing views/positions/identities (in my opinion, for the purpose of being in a different world and learning more new things). The ENTP I was talking about had a unique way of thinking. So he joined a small group of similar minded people who had this unique way of thinking. But after a while of being in the group, he adopted a different position/view which was also equally rare/unique yet not compatible with his group. (I think it's because he just can't stand conforming, even in such a small group)
@@chickadddee So you think Si users are non-conformist too? Do you infer from people you don't know? Was I talking about young people? So in your opinion everyone goes against the grain when they're young and nobody does that anymore when they're old? Everybody conforms when they reach adulthood? I'm not sure you understand Ne...
Yeah. I'm experiencing this with an ENFP dude right now. It's interesting being on the other side of a withdrawal state. Actually, it's quite embarrassing. I think this guy is gonna out-INTJ me one day.
Wow. I’m enfp married to intj and I sometimes feel like my cynicism surpasses his. The shadows are dark here and the optimism is tempered with reason. It’s a good balance of our idealism and our knowledge of human nature. 🥺🤓
I am an enfp and my boyfriend is an intj. I too feel that my cynicism is way darker than his sometimes. I am able to go into a rabbit hole that his logic would never let him go down.
This is so true. I am an ENFP that is on a rollercoaster ride right now and the cheerleader me is so dark that my INTJ hubby is struggling a little at how dark I can get. I’m usually the sunshine of the family & the one that cheers everyone up. Going dark has scared some of my closest friends. No one has ever seen me this way before in a long long time.
i completely agree with everything you said and i feel like adding my part to it, so here is that😂 i think that enfps (and infps as well) have a big problem with acceptance. as it's stated, we are idealists, always trying to find the best and most honest in everything and anyone we connect with. but because of that, our spirit is often crushed and we end up disappointed. we can't accept that not everything can be fixed to be better, to stick with the tradition and call it okay. we also can't accept our own failures and are really judgemental towards ourselved. because of constantly seeking some kind of chaotic perfection that can only exist in our mind, we can seem absolutely unstable and childish (not that we are not tho) idk if that makes sense, but okay keep up the great work, i really love your chanel!!
I feel like you just broke me down to exact roots of my cynicism. I’m not one for to be all doom gloomy but I just see things in the world and it just upsets me. I’m not happy the way things are. The way you explained my “dark thoughts” was kind of creepy. As if you looked in my mind.
My condolences. I find even in death a person lives in your memory forever. Please think of the positive things, your sister would not want you to be sad. Take care, fellow ENFP.
I really like the « dark side of » videos. Very insightful. Let’s take a peak into the darkness and where it’s not particularly comfortable. Carl Jung said « Unfortunately there can be no doubt that man is, on the whole, less good than he imagines himself or wants to be. Everyone carries a shadow, and the less it is embodied in the individual’s conscious life, the blacker and denser it is. At all counts, it forms an unconscious snag, thwarting our most well-meant intentions. » ....I love enfps! Even with their dark side. :)
I do agree with their dark side though as it is painfully obvious this world is on a bad road with no way of turning back, I have a loathing for social clones that are so common place and even in the older demographics it is so ridiculous.
Agreed with everything in this analysis except for the feelings being something fickle and changeable. I actually find my feelings very stable and trustable over time. My feeling often tells me something is wrong even when I can't directly see what it is using logical. It's like a spidersense really. This is also a tip for you Nathan: i highly suspect you're a thinker, not a feeler, and I notice thinkers tend to regard feelers as illogical creatures relying on the emotional state of the day. That really is underestimating them imo.
This is an excellent comment! I totally agree that thinkers see feelers as being illogical. The irony is that the thinkers suppress their emotions to the point of causing problems and fail to recognise the fact that we are equally as driven by emotions (whether we’ll admit it or not!). Thank you again for this comment ~ Nathan
@@lovewho The rest of what you said was spot on. I indeed feel disillusioned by society, indeed makes jokes about it that stem from my discomfort. And I indeed want to tear down the system and rebuild it. The way I want to rebuild it though, is constant over time. It is based on my deeply felt values. I want a society where we all actively fight the impending doom called climate change. I want to see the end of capitalism. I want a society where we acknowledge the garbageman is just as valuable as the dentist. That's the type of revolutionary I am. I felt this way about society yesterday, today and tomorrow.
I feel called out on this, something my parents tell me a lot is ' you cant change the world/the system' and this always pains me. Idk how to express this but , the video helped me a lot w understand my feelings thank you smm
I’m glad you got something worthwhile from it, that’s really nice to hear! Feel free to check out the other ENFP videos on this channel if you haven’t already. Hopefully I’ll be making some more soon as well ~ Nathan
I've travelled back and forth from the dark side to the light every other night for years. And now I have created a mid space where the unicorns can kill with their horns and the rainbows can blind. This place treats friends kindly and destroys foes if they can even enter. Oh boy that wasn't a very nice to thing say. Sorry! But I really love your videos and really appreciate the effort you put into explaining all the types. I'm very grateful to you :') Thank you so much
Absolutely spot on. Your comment that if ENFP’s individuality and creativity is stamped out then they can become destructive revolutionaries as unbelievably accurate. My partner is an ESTJ he is establishment and authority and logic. He stamps on my ideas and enthusiasms to the point that feel myself becoming that revolutionary activist . I can’t believe you actually put into words what is literally happening in my life. Now I understand that maybe I can work with it without wanting to bring the house down !
ENFPs are a lot like dogs. They are happy and excited lil fellahs who want to explore the world and make everyone happy. On the flipside of the coin a dog that has been beating up and not cared for will attack anything it can and will make it's personal goal to watch the world burn. If I'd have to give the "Dark ENFP" a title it would probs be the Vengefull
@@lovewho That's pretty ridulous and it really made my not so happy day great! Thanks for the content and the responce! Been dealing with an ex I can't quite get over as I still care for her and want to help her feel better but she prefers to close herself in. I know I shouldn't force her and you helping me self improve really makes me feel a lot better about myself
Grateful for this video. My introverted neighbor noticed me withdraw as I've been going dark for a while after a breakup. It's *kinda* fun being dark but it's not *us* .I'm trying to get back to the rainbows but my ENFP+ADHD has me fixated on the *what was wrong with me* idea and I'm way down the rabbit hole. 😔
I truly appreciate your channel, Man!! You are a very intelligent, passionate, and intellectual man, which I highly respect. I particularly appreciated how you said the "Dark ENFP" has been or can be described as "A Dangerous Revolutionary." Being a Rock Singer-Songwriter and Musician myself, I absolutely relate to that, but not from a hurtful, mean, or judgemental place. From more of an "investigative, justice, or detective," if you will, standpoint, I personally feel and believe that when people and systems are not willing to do what is right, just, and honest, than being willing to hold people accountable for their wrongful actions is the most honorable action to take. At least in my experience, as an ENFP myself, I have experienced in numerous situations throughout my entire life, especially currently, right now, where I will go to the end of the line, including being exhiled, betrayed, alienated, or even abandoned, to find out the truth. I was obsessed with "Investigative Journalism" when I was in my late teens and throughout my early to mid twenties, and almost applied for a few Journalism programs. So in conclusion, I greatly respect your willingness and passion to talk about the dark side of the ENFP personality type. And one past thing. As a Psychologist, myself, and Singer-Songwriter like I already stated, Karl Jung, Swiss Psychoanalysist, said it best, in that we must not suppress our Dark Side and shut it out. I myself, completely agree with Karl Jung. If more people were to realize how invaluable appropriately applying, incorporating, or blending their dark side into their daily lives is, as an active and conscious choice and course of actions, their would be way less Neuroticism, Violence, and Anger in societies around the World. Thank you
Thanks for putting it in a way that Si things do not excite us, and not that we don't or can't do them. I find that more and more of my time is taken up with petty, stupid, time wasting (as I see it) mundane tasks (usually software update related things or picky paperwork crap that was most certainly not designed with ENFPs in mind). It's draining and feels soul-less to me, even though I've learned how to navigate it, out of if I don't I can't get anywhere I need to go or I'll miss a deadline for applying to a program I really wanted to do or some other bad thing will happen. It's so exhausting, and often I am too tired for the creative things that feed my soul.
This was actually so helpful, I would really like to see more ENFP videos, I actually understood a few things about my self that I was aware of but could not put my finger on, this video helped with that!
I could see all of that happening to me for sure if I didnt keep my head on a swivel. I've felt the urge to go in a few of those directions at low points in my life. So far, 32 years old, I've never went down that ally all the way. One thing of me though, is as innovative as I am. I've always had a strong value for the wisdom and traditions of our ancestors. Maybe because of the great influence my Great Grandma and Granpa had on me. I always view that, every idea I get needs to be built up upon the best of the foundations that we now currently have. And that no new idea should be devoid of having a traditional foundation to build on. I also look at it as valuing other peoples ideas from the past. I've been fortunate to be balanced in that way.
As an ENFP the extersential crisis is real. 'We are all fucked' was said and I do regret going so damn dark but now I'm back in my idealism and woo am I glad to be out of that! For now! ;)
Hmmmmm. I feel like this video is underestimating the rational and realistic abilities of the ENFP. As an ENFP, both idealism and cynicism are much more extreme feelings/beliefs than I experience. I know I can come across as friendly and warm, and when I tell my clients or loved ones I believe they can do anything, overcome any hurdle, I mean it. Yet I simultaneously know anyone can succumb to their own ego defenses and darkness at any moment. I feel so completely ok with the play of dark and light energies in this world, it would be hard to have these emotional attachments and reactions you speak of. So for me, my internal world feels much more neutral, detached and realistic than this person you are describing. I would say my dark side is closer to being ruthless, detached, and able to put emotions aside to survive. Under stress I would say I become less emotional, not more. I also know that ENFPs logical side is underestimated because we don’t care about being “seen” as logical. My logic doesn’t feel like “me” nor is it “not me” no attachment, no aversion. Just a tool to get the job done or get the party started.
That is so intresting to me because i got to "ignore" those matters that you said make a ENFP dark. I am now focusing on my own life and not on a system that I cant change anyways. So I guess I do what is also an ENFP thing to do, just being optimitic and avoiding conflict with myself
Ok that explained a lot of what happened with me in the last 5 years as an ENFP. Now how do I escape being too cynical and return to my optimist loving self or succeed generally?To help you help me, all started when reality hit my idealism which made me a pessimist about lots of things like relationships and jobs and many more.I still think I can save myself and have a brighter future though and I definitely refuse to give up trying.
"Even amidst their sparkling and strangely childlike demeanor, they harbor this sense that we're all ultimately f*****" that sounds like me in a nutshell
Completely understandable yet very hard to picture my ENFP that way, he always seems so pure to me. Seeing the dark side of myself, an INFJ however I know how well it exists.
One if not my absolute favourite ENFP channels / sources of info! I agree with what happens when we “go dark” … I’ve seen it at various points in my life!
Thanks Nathan. Really appreciate the clarity and subtlety of your take on ENFP. It's really useful and more in depth than other material I've seen! Keep it up, thank you x
BRILLIANT, BRILLIANT VIDEO! YOU SIMPLY "NAILED' IT TO PERFECTION. ALL THE CHARACTERISTICS YOU ENUMERATED ABOUT THE DARK SIDE OF AN ENFP ARE 100% CORRECT. I have seen many, many videos on ENFPs but nothing compares to this short but prodigious description of a melnacholic ENFP. Superb. Much respect.
The fact that you used that specific quote from Daenerys, one of my favorite characters of all times and one of those I relate the most explains a lot. A lot.
(ENFP here) Whenever I get into my darker thoughts I honestly sounds and look insane, and it scares me sometimes. I remember saying my honest and dark thoughts for the first time to my closest friends and she told me that I was scaring her. I started to laugh my butt off bc I left like I was going insane.
This is a summary for the first 16 years of my life. The dark side is not just due to the fact that ENFPs use the analysis and deductions made during their "normal times" to manipulate the circumstances into fitting their needs, but it is sometimes paired with toxic positivity, which keeps accumulating and is later on given out to the world and hate and aggression, pure thirst for vengeance. However, I think that within the disease lies the cure, as in thr same idealistic ENFP is also curious... idealisticly curious, so automatically we will be seeking the truth. This is the journey of maturation I guess, which -in my experience- end up in realistic optimism, realising the balance of the universe and the little changes a person can do, seeing the world for what it is: the good in the evil and the evil in the good, yin and yang.
Some of my fellow ENFPs think theyve crossed the line to enter the dark. I believe most of them don't have a clue what true pain,suffering and depression is. I know the darkness and now it is my only compass. The light was torn and taken away over a period of time.The story of how it happened is to painful and long to tell. Now all that remains is my intuition and the conviction that burns in my heart. I have become a Ronin.No Purpose but to carry the weight of beautiful memories long gone.
As an INFP I sometimes find my ENFP friends (whom I love) can be very manipulative. Often willing to shut down their morals too when convenient for them. I guess that's something like an Ne-Te loop thing. They are also much better at getting things done whereas I just brood on forever
You did a phenomenal job describing the enfp dark side. I have an enfp relative I was reunited with a couple of years ago. She’s very unwell and operating from her shadow functions more often than not, while still being very entrenched in her youthful, naive idealist view of the world. I’m worried for her.
As an INTJ I actually kind of like being poked a little by the ENTP type, especially if they are a girl. I’ve honestly been waiting years for a girl like that to just sit down next to me and start talking to me. I’m way to shy to make a move, so I always just hope a girl will take the initiative and make the move herself. It’s happened a couple times, but they see it makes me uncomfortable and get scared off, when in reality yeah I’m uncomfortable, but I’m also loving being pushed outside my comfort zone a little. I look back on those times fondly and wish that I wasn’t so cynical about their motives and had tried to stop them from leaving.
ENFP woman here who has a few decades under her belt, is among other things a visual artist, and who is perfectly used to being the only one in any situation that stands out as not being like anyone else in the space without even trying. I like people a lot and inspiring them spontaneously or making them laugh is great fun. I know who to stay away from, too. Nathan, I like all of your ENFP videos because you have genuine respect and sensitivity combined with a terrific interest and accuracy for and in our type for which I gain much enjoyment! It’s true, though, that the world sucks, that being loved then abandoned is so common it is no longer a joke, and like minded folk are severely thin on the ground. I definitely have a dark side which gets indulged in private, But apart from this, my optimism and innocence prevails with every new day.
This, it the cynical realm of idealism that's pushing me so far away. This need for perfection and hard judgment before projects even get started doesn't sit well with me. Thankfully I can see thats how this analytical type prepares for big projects. It helps guide their persona that's important for manifestation. I feel like the complete opposite. I have a huge desire to just start and I get frustrated in the beginning because we're losing time analyzing. It's a struggle to stay on track and out of my head. Learning my inner personality shadows is seriously helpful. Maybe I'll have better luck expressing my needs instead of feeling everyone's frustration and the guilt from all the external obligations.
As an ENFP, hearing this is very interesting, I guess you could say I am the type who likes to live their life according to their own rythm and rules, when I was younger, I did try to stand out from the crowd and was rather defiant to traditions and rules, but as I grew up and matured, it seemed kind of pointless to me and I see things way differently now, I have no issue blending in and I managed to accept society and the world as it is, in fact I started to see beauty in so many of the aspects that I ve once hated. I just find it interesting regardless of wether I would follow that tradition or that method. I even started planning and try to build habits and routines. As for my own life, I still live it exactly how I want to, but I am more considerate of my environement and the social norms and managed to adapt what I want with what society wants and needs. I am cinical and still think people are corrupted true, but I don't mind it that much anymore. I just accept it and move on, I don't need to change the world, I just need to be concerned about the few people I love and care about most.
I love and hate being understood so well 😂 hello I’m an ENFP. Thanks for the video. I love being able to understand my flaws so I can make improvements. Understanding my weaknesses has helped me stay faithful to my wife so far 10 years. 🎉
Very interesting. As my ENFP friend likes to say, "Once again, my hopes have been dashed on the jagged rocks of reality." And he seems to derive a sense of satisfaction and relishes when things go wrong in society, as if to say "I told you so."
This is brilliant. I often think "Everything is great and the world is pull of possibilities but at the same time the planet is f***ed and we are all doomed" I feel so seen haha.
Spot on! My sister is an ENFP and is a huge environmental activist and now very cynical. She thinks humanity sucks (she's probably right) and can't be trusted.
I think SJs could be on our side if we provide a very detailed set of rules, balances and counterbalances (new ones less restrictive) on how to interact in the real world, otherwise they will be too afraid to change anything.
My shadow self is passive aggressive, depressive, ect... I could be like the Joker too, but I'm not dangerous. I hide... Somewhat like Robin Williams.. Great video. I am way Too emotional and feeling, that I have to see a Shrink to cope logically. Lol.
Our Discord - discord.gg/xThWx8Q
My tentative theory is that based on the comment sections of our videos, lot's of the people here would benefit from the ability to chat to each other in real-time. I've met people who have had/still have a huge impact on me and who I have developed close and collaborative relationships with online first, that I've also gone on to meet in person. We live in interesting times where that is no longer a strange thing. Hopefully this discord will be somewhere where all of you can do the same - interesting chats, find new and useful connections etc.
Also my assumption is that this community will grow organically and become self sustaining if it's going to exist at all. So think of me as an intermittently present creator who often totally forgets about a planet he's made then quickly rushes to make sure they haven't turned on each other.
Finally, an ENTP is running the server... god help us.
~ Nathan
I applaud you Nathan. Well spoken. You really suit the communication to your audience!
I don’t know much about discord but holy 💩‼️ Talk about chaos! I’ll definitely be a lurker in the meantime 🕵️♀️👁
@@sammyj1183 Message me when you're on there next! ~ Nathan
Nice, I've experienced similar with online relationships.. 🔥 And chuckled when u said the introverts need prodding, as this ENFP seems to do that naturally.. 🤣
My INTP and EISTJ sons really laugh at me too. Thinking types look at me like I am living in a bubble. Yes, IF I am not optimistic, I can be depressed.
One of the reasons for ENFPs to go on a dark moment of their lives or turn insensitive, is when we realize the contrast between our idealized world and the real one. It's like some sort of recoil, when we have so much optimism, it's destroyed by realism, and we end up being very pessimistic. The happiness we give is proportional to the sadness we get.
this is a fact
"we have so much optimism, it's destroyed by realism..." Wow. That is the most accurate thing I've ever heard
I strongly agree with this! :(
I really felt that :(
That one was so extremely and tragically accurate. Only an ENFP could say such a thing.
As an ENFP I have always seen through the corrupt political, social, education and diplomatic systems. Sometimes I feel nothing will change unless it does all come crashing down 😭
Personally, my view is this (one ENFP to another): if the system crashes down, something needs to fill that vacuum, and it won't be the most ideal system, it will be the most predatory and ruthless one that will fill it most quickly, as the speed of fear is quicker than the speed of hope. But where the speed of fear wears off, the speed of hope keeps going. In other, less abstract terms, if we want to fix these issues with the system, we need to make calculated adjustments that lead to better outcomes, making the system work bottom-up, not top-down. Only when the bottom has the power will it never see its conditions hurt so easily in favor of those at the top.
Mitchthemysteryman that makes so much sense. I only hope that enough people in those positions come together to make those deicisons.
So so so true mate. My heart goes out to. I know how it feels. I-...so so know that feeling
@@Mitchthemysteryman yes mate u are right. And the way my political ways are...I feel like work is being done from down to up. Fuck does that mean we will be saved cuz once like the existing system gets in the radar of ppl and majority wants to get it out, we will be saved? Niceeeeeeeeee
Same.✌
ENFPs seem like extremely fun people to be around with, death and destruction notwithstanding.
Amen to this ~ Nathan
ellotte lim i was an enfp, now i am an entp
Simbon Rongpipi wowww I’m the same but reversed when I was young I was an ENTP then BAAM EMOTIONS HAPPENED (and I became all sad/maybe depressed) and I just somehow morphed into an ENFP🤣 I lowkey wanna go back tho🗿🗿🗿
Blackmail Potato well my friend u grew up
Simbon Rongpipi Yep growing up is sad😔✊
I am an ENFP and since discovering that I learned a lot about myself...but one thing is that I disagree with is "logic-less-ness". I found out about myself that in stressful situations or in dangerous situations I switch to cold logic. I went to medical high school, and I am a trained nurse (even though I am currently doing my Master's degree in Science) when someone is hurt - my emotions turn off and I act completely logical. And I have come to rely on that. In a lot of situations, I rely on my knowledge that is in fact very science-based.
That's not Ti. That's Te child.
agreed with you (ENFP speaking here), but you must consider that some ENFPs develop some areas better than others, and logic-less-ness can be one of them.
Me too!!! I thought I was alone in this (switching to cold logic). My family always talks about how easily (and scarily) I can do this, juxtaposed to my typical jovial, happy outlook-life self.
I recommend you learn about the ENFP Ne-Te cognitive function loop. I think it will explain that part of your personality.
me tooo i just turn in to a robot when things get dangerous or serious!!
My wife who is an ENFP sometimes shows her inner chaotic fire. Usually the nicest person you've ever met. But get her riled up about any injustice and she is inches away from killing someone in a fit of righteous anger.
YES i so understand this
Yep my partner would agree. Watch out 😅
Absolutely 100%
I remember once going on a tirade about pelmets (the curtain thing), and my late husband (ISTJ) just waited calmly til I was done and simply said, “I didn’t realise you felt so strongly about curtains.” Then we both laughed.
@@Pandorash8he sounds like a great person, I'm sorry he's no longer here
"Destruction is the work of an afternoon. Creation is the work of a lifetime"
-Kamahl
Absolutely beautiful quote ~ Nathan
as an ENFP… here’s some more bad things about us: when we spend too much time alone we can become extremely disconnected from reality and run from it! or we can start to think too deeply about reality and get upset or depressed with a lot of frustrations. we are pros when it comes to hide our feelings even though we’re dying to talk about. we can easily cross the line on jokes to hide our weaknesses! when we get discouraged we just tend to give up and make fun out of it assuming the place of the sputid worthless clown and it can be really hard to make us feel better about ourselves and believe on that dream again… we’re moody and it’s not personal! most of the time it’s about ourselves and we don’t need exactly someone who will fix it but someone to just listen and give us support.
EXTRA: we just wanna be loved and feel that we’re important
EDIT: I figured out I’m actually an ENTP but all I said still checks 😅
I’m almost in tears I feel so much understood rn Ty 🥺
All of this is true, you seemed to have summed up everything and this sort of teared me up, thank you so much man
Thank you I feel really understood we are a lot alike
Hell yeah
HOW DID YOU READY MIND??? This is EXACTLY what I do either when I've been alone for too long or thinking too hard about the state of the world
The ENFPs I encountered usually have dark or offensive sense of humour. Which kinda reminds me of Ricky Gervais who is apparently an ENFP.
100% agreed! ~ Nathan
Hm, that explains a lot. I've been told I have a dark, yet tasteful sense of humor.
I've saw very many cases of Dark side of ENFPs. They become violent and too much upset or angry if they hurt from other person. Usually they are Optimistic and kind bright personality but unhealthy ENFPs are gloomy and dark pale face and think themselves wrongly and unrealistic idea and presume other people's intentions and attack them irrationally and illogically quarrel
@@박-j8h that's exactly how I was in my teenage years. It can go away if a person sets a goal to change themselves for the better, heal themselves, let go of this hatred, control their emotions more and etc. It's not easy, but there's always more to us than just this side or that side, so we can always develop the good ones and fix the worse ones ✌
or Caroline Kornstnar
The accuracy in this video scares me. I often feel agitated and annoyed when those around me are not optimistic,I guess it comes from me forcing myself to feel optimistic even though I know cruel things can be. I hate the system and want change but then struggle with how to go about this. Every time something wrong happens I feel my heart break because I held onto hope that it would or wouldn’t happen
We accept that people are flawed, and will talk about it, but still ignore it for the sake of optimism. We know that humankind has always been one way, but that hasn't stopped us from having fun before... So why should it now?
Mmm.. 💭💭💭
Those are like the most golden hairs I have ever seen
Yes optimistic nihilism is the way to go
INFP here, (I think lol) my ENFP friend has definitely been one of the best things in my life. Her weird extravagant quirkiness embodies what I love to see most in people and our conversations often feel more like a deep understanding. While it's painful to see her dark thoughts come out, I often can't agree more when she voices them.
Unfortunately me enfp i am to much for my infp favourite person.
It's true because sometimes when negativity around me(I'M AN ENFP 🎉🎊🎊 ) .I just become a hermit crab ..hiding myself and processing things but when I can't do that I become someone who knows how to destroy it all ... Sometimes it scares me ..because I know when rainbow goes down darkness takes over ... Don't think that ENFPs are always unicorns ... When we go for hunting ..darkness is everything you'll have
Well said ~ Nathan
😅😅😅
It actually bothers me that someone can actually know me this deep
For INFP the dark side of ENFP looks amazingly cool))
Haha I can see that being the case ~ Nathan
It isn't. Trust me.
As an ENFP, it’s so true that the dark side possibilities exist so closely and easily flipped with the light side. As someone who won’t even kill spiders, I could easily see myself as Liam Neeson’s character in Taken. Not kidding 😂
Cool vid dude. I'm an ENFP and mostly agree with you. We are so full of rage and passion that we don't always stop and make sure we are facilitating it correctly. And when are expectations aren't met then we feel ineffective and lose it. After that point we just go hung hoe on everything that bothers us because we are not satisfied. It's not logical, but we are aware that in the back of our minds that doesn't matter, because logic is a boring box to live in and you'd have to be complacent to live there. Don't underestimate a dark ENFP just call the infjs to deal with it it's your only hope lol.
"Logic is a boring box to live in" - this is a beautifully ENFP quote ~ Nathan
I am definitely optimistic but when I got depressed, it was really hard to get out of it. Still healing rn tbh. Things you said resonate with me a lot.
Good luck dealing with it, It can be hard - an ENFP
I am a ENFP, this is very true. One thing, we can switch being happy to dark in a moment.
yep. definitely.
Pretty great analysis! As an ENFP I know that I can get very discouraged that SJs have built the systems of the world and have put all these annoying "rules" in place. Not only must the rules be followed, but you have to do paperwork! Lots of paperwork. What's an ENFP to do? Follow your dreams only to discover how hard it can be to go against the grain. Sometimes really fun! as you point out. The adventure, sometimes recklessness, and freedom is probably worth it. If you can't break through and earn a living while remaining free the depression that comes realizing you have to do the paperwork, and maybe even work for the man, can lead to becoming like the Joker sometimes. Usually though it's self destruction through Nihilism and selfishness. Best to keep smiling, be thankful, and do some of that SI work to be a more well rounded person who then can be a force for good! Then you can follow your dreams and be very happy succeeding at what you love to do! Entertaining those around you as you do... :)
Awesome comment, thank you very much for taking the time to leave it. A cynical or gloomy ENFP is a very weird creature to observe and indeed a very dangerous one ~ Nathan
What is the si work?
Haha, I love learning but hate paperwork / coursework.. 💯
Orange Ziggy Si deals with seeing things as they are. Sensory. ENFPs, or at least me, are famous for the rose colored glasses and dreaming, but when it comes to the day to day grind it’s not so fun. Take a creative ENFP chasing their dreams and get them to do the paperwork (for example) and you have a pretty amazing combination! ENFPs are capable of hard work, don’t get me wrong, but it’s easier for them when the vision is strong enough that they don’t get too bored with the monotonous stuff... Nathan can probably explain it better 🙂 Cheers!
@@MikeShawTV as an infp I understand disliking monotony.
Yes !!! A discord!! I am ENFP going through my dark side a lot
I just went door to door for Bernie Sanders, but I'm a disgruntled ENFJ. Still, given the state of the world, not very shocking to be losing optimism. I wish you luck!
Thing is, as long as you worry and invest too much energy in things that are ultimately outside your control - you will struggle to find peace.
In the end, people will do things that you don't want them to do, and adversity will always be waiting at your doorstep.
If you want things to change, focus on what you control. That is, your actions and your judgements.
You choose how you approach the world and how want to react to events, and you choose what events mean to you. There is nothing else you have direct control over.
Good luck to you too.
Hope to see you on there! ~ Nathan
@@theordinary1059 thank you !!
2020- year of dark ENFP
(INFP) My best friend is an ENFP. No one I keep has the coolest most "random" ideas in which I then do most of the research to get off the ground. Hanging with her is subjecting yourself to a barrage of "I realized, OMG's followed by anecdotes, and I wanna do this now". This is the PERFECT recipe to keep anyone with Savior Ne entertained for hours on end.
I, interact with the things in the real world helping her ideas come to fruition.
She, is the person for who's tribe I belong to and am valued member of.
🤣🤣🤣 she sounds like me..
Every day is full of 💡💡💡 lol
How do I find someone to help me realize my exciting ideas
@@idaklymr depends what your ideas need to make happen.
@@PhotoRubio the biggest idea is to buy a 300 acre ranch on the border of Oregon and Idaho and make a men's summer camp. A course where you build an AR15 then study tactics and basic rifle marksmanship. Another course where you outfit your brand new Toyota Tacoma (or jeep or bronco) then spend a week learning to plot routes, recover your vehicle and some survival skills. I've found the ranch and it had been for sale for 15 years
Thanks for the video!! This seems accurate. I feel like, in some ways, I am able to feel so positive or happy in my life only because I first had my idealism crushed. Humanity is stuck, things are doomed, everyone is deeply flawed and most of us don’t try hard enough to be better, etc. I learned these realities, and it was devastating. For a while, I was just sad and angry about the truth (dark ENFP phase lol). But then, overtime, it led to the positivity I can often feel and express. It’s like ok, if the truth is so bleak, then people’s efforts to be “good” (when they try to improve themselves, when they think of others, etc.) are beautiful. I can deeply appreciate something simple like someone apologizing when they bump into someone else or seeing someone hold the door for someone else. Those little things strike me as effortful and kind in the face of such a difficult world. For any ENFPs in the realization stage, don’t get stuck in that sad and angry place. You’ll come out ok on the other side of the realization if you hang in there and keep going. And relapses back into darkness are normal and expected, so don’t think the journey isn’t worth it because you find the sadness of things overwhelming sometimes. Just keep forward momentum-use that ability to envision different futures to give yourself hope. Don’t go dark forever 😆❤️.
Thank you for this comment. It's really awesome to get the feedback for real life versions of the types and to receive some... knowledge bombs ~ Nathan
I'm a dark ENFP. Love it. Tho the Joker comparison is a bit much.... lol
Agree. But which Joker franchise resonates to an ENFP the most? Is it with Joaquin Phoenix played?
The Joaquin version of Joker is very ENFP. Yeah!
Missy from doctor who also seems to be a dark ENFP. I just realized why I love her lmao
Willy Wonka and Mad Hatter in one part of their movies, had a pretty dark emotion eating up their natural optimistic, idealist and creative behaviour. When I watched this scenes while child, I didn't notice until now that because I'm an ENFP, that gave me a terribly bad feeling because I was empathizing with them.
I find it hard especially when surrounded by negative people, because eventually you just keep getting shut down and drained of your light.
Agree. ENFP here. When triggering things happen, I cry out my emotions, then emotionlessly, logically talk myself into getting up and doing the bare minimum that is required to survive. And people don’t believe the happy-go-lucky life of the party has that dark hidden side under all that optimism. It’s pretty much unfathomable for them. When I get pushed to that limit, I habitually reach for the comfort of people who I know will talk me out of whatever dumb shit I’m about to do. Those people in that moment become my moral compass. Nothing else matters. Everything else becomes insignificant and irrelevant. Meaningless. All that optimism gets shut down. This is accurate
Dude this is so accurate. I try to stay positive to hide the depressing reality we live in and it becomes exhausting at times
As an ENFP I have always said my alignment is chaotic good. 😂 I never really saw how that could really be a bad thing until your vid tho... very insightful. 😁
There’s an ENFP for every introvert. You just need to find your pair, my infp found me and I can say proudly I’m the best shit that ever happened to her
Statistically, that's impossible.
@@tupcilian7645 wdym
I've had to crawl back from cynicism / depression 5 times now in my life. And this pretty much nails why the world seemed so deeply disturbing during those times. I'm actually learning to respect structure and tradition recently though and see it as a jumping off point from which to build (literally... because I'm in architecture). Without all those iterations of tradition I wouldn't have the endless concepts to explore which I love. It really does make the world seem hopeful again :)
Being a teacher helped me to come out of this darkness
Not an enfp but I'm gonna agree with what u said about youth idealism and reality... it's kinda strange and uncomfortable on the step between teenage and the 20s, even thou the 20s is considered the youth as well. I'm a person who is starting the 20s in this world current chaos and it's well... it's something.
That was my comment; feels like it's be pretty easy to go dark now.
I agree it's an eternal issue. Idealism is excellent as a North Star to aim towards but instantly becomes destructive when is genuinely sought out as a goal ~ Nathan
As usual, this sums me up.😂 I hate negativity, but at times it can’t be avoided. When it finally breaks through my ideals and grand schemes it threatens to consume me whole!
I am watching a video about ENFPs now, it is past 5:30am and I have not slept at all. I also just joined the discord. I’m INFJ which implies that I just spent 80% thinking about what I *really* want and thinking about literally everything not only as a subject but as a topic which I did. Cool video.
I'm reading a comment by an INFJ (about an ENFP) who's awake after 5:30am whilst being also awake past 5:30am sending this comment... see you on the discord! ~ Nathan
"Whereas the ENTP brand of chaos often has an underlying logic to it, the ENFP brand of chaos is only tethered to... their feelings which can be... fickle." at 4:48
More like it's tethered to their... values, which are... solid.
(agree with everything else though...)
Yeah the constant conflation of feelings and values can really make Fi users seem like children.
@@MylesKillis I guess I've changed my mind about what I said 4 months ago (I only started learning about MBTI 9 months ago, so my opinions haven't fully developed).
I do believe now that ENFPs values aren't as strong/stable as INFPs (because Fi is only in second position for ENFP). But likewise, I would say that the logic (Ti) of ENTPs is also not as stable as INTPs. Both ENPs value Ne (freedom/change) more than either Ti or Fi which makes their logic and values more fickle than INPs.
Just like ENFPs, ENTPs can also change their stances/point of views easily. At least the ENTPs I've debated with can change their opinion after a single debate. And ENTPs are also known as the type who would argue for things they don't believe in, just to play the devil's advocate. So in a way, ENTPs are also like children who can't make up their mind or who make rules as they play the game.
Even though ENPs aren't as stable with their Ti and Fi, there are obviously strengths in having Ne in the first position (which I won't go into detail because there are various sources from the internet).
@@chickadddee What I mean to say is, anyone with Ne tends to not want to conform or prefers being rebellious or go against the grain. What I see is that in INPs, that rebelliousness is more constant/enduring/stable. ENPs take that rebelliousness to another level, changing views/positions/identities (in my opinion, for the purpose of being in a different world and learning more new things).
The ENTP I was talking about had a unique way of thinking. So he joined a small group of similar minded people who had this unique way of thinking. But after a while of being in the group, he adopted a different position/view which was also equally rare/unique yet not compatible with his group. (I think it's because he just can't stand conforming, even in such a small group)
@@chickadddee So you think Si users are non-conformist too?
Do you infer from people you don't know?
Was I talking about young people?
So in your opinion everyone goes against the grain when they're young and nobody does that anymore when they're old? Everybody conforms when they reach adulthood?
I'm not sure you understand Ne...
Yeah. I'm experiencing this with an ENFP dude right now. It's interesting being on the other side of a withdrawal state. Actually, it's quite embarrassing. I think this guy is gonna out-INTJ me one day.
Wow. I’m enfp married to intj and I sometimes feel like my cynicism surpasses his. The shadows are dark here and the optimism is tempered with reason. It’s a good balance of our idealism and our knowledge of human nature. 🥺🤓
This is a fascinating dynamic. Especially the fact that the ENFP is behaving in an INTJ-ish way ~ Nathan
I am an enfp and my boyfriend is an intj. I too feel that my cynicism is way darker than his sometimes. I am able to go into a rabbit hole that his logic would never let him go down.
Dang.. 🤯
This is so true. I am an ENFP that is on a rollercoaster ride right now and the cheerleader me is so dark that my INTJ hubby is struggling a little at how dark I can get. I’m usually the sunshine of the family & the one that cheers everyone up. Going dark has scared some of my closest friends. No one has ever seen me this way before in a long long time.
i completely agree with everything you said and i feel like adding my part to it, so here is that😂
i think that enfps (and infps as well) have a big problem with acceptance.
as it's stated, we are idealists, always trying to find the best and most honest in everything and anyone we connect with. but because of that, our spirit is often crushed and we end up disappointed. we can't accept that not everything can be fixed to be better, to stick with the tradition and call it okay. we also can't accept our own failures and are really judgemental towards ourselved. because of constantly seeking some kind of chaotic perfection that can only exist in our mind, we can seem absolutely unstable and childish (not that we are not tho)
idk if that makes sense, but okay
keep up the great work, i really love your chanel!!
I feel like you just broke me down to exact roots of my cynicism. I’m not one for to be all doom gloomy but I just see things in the world and it just upsets me. I’m not happy the way things are. The way you explained my “dark thoughts” was kind of creepy. As if you looked in my mind.
As an ENFP, myself started being ruined when my sister died. The traumatized part of me grew every day.
My condolences. I find even in death a person lives in your memory forever. Please think of the positive things, your sister would not want you to be sad. Take care, fellow ENFP.
I really like the « dark side of » videos. Very insightful. Let’s take a peak into the darkness and where it’s not particularly comfortable. Carl Jung said « Unfortunately there can be no doubt that man is, on the whole, less good than he imagines himself or wants to be. Everyone carries a shadow, and the less it is embodied in the individual’s conscious life, the blacker and denser it is. At all counts, it forms an unconscious snag, thwarting our most well-meant intentions. » ....I love enfps! Even with their dark side. :)
Love it! That concept of the shadow is a fascinating one philosophically ~ Nathan
Lol, I'm either a dark ENFP or just a normal ENTP! Having a hard time differenciating....
Haha! Ok this statement is hilarious... I might have to use that at some point in the future! ~ Nathan
The fact that your video was 5 mins made my short-attention span and my curious side very happy- ENFP
I really liked this channel, finally someone who geniuely takes ENFP's seriously. We're not that naive, childish and sometimes even dump charachters!
I've been on the dark side for a year now and I'm not sure if I'll ever go back to Rainbow and unicorns
The darkside is a fun place indeed ~ Nathan
@@lovewho it is indeed.
I find that I get out of it when I find purpose and a cause I can do good towards and people I can help.
I do agree with their dark side though as it is painfully obvious this world is on a bad road with no way of turning back, I have a loathing for social clones that are so common place and even in the older demographics it is so ridiculous.
As an ENFP, I get dark when triggered. Knowing myself, I battle the temptation to take the high road or get even.
Thanks so much i remember requesting dark side of a ENFP and im glade you made a video about it
Well hopefully it didn't disappoint! ~ Nathan
Agreed with everything in this analysis except for the feelings being something fickle and changeable. I actually find my feelings very stable and trustable over time. My feeling often tells me something is wrong even when I can't directly see what it is using logical. It's like a spidersense really.
This is also a tip for you Nathan: i highly suspect you're a thinker, not a feeler, and I notice thinkers tend to regard feelers as illogical creatures relying on the emotional state of the day. That really is underestimating them imo.
This is an excellent comment! I totally agree that thinkers see feelers as being illogical.
The irony is that the thinkers suppress their emotions to the point of causing problems and fail to recognise the fact that we are equally as driven by emotions (whether we’ll admit it or not!).
Thank you again for this comment ~ Nathan
@@lovewho The rest of what you said was spot on. I indeed feel disillusioned by society, indeed makes jokes about it that stem from my discomfort. And I indeed want to tear down the system and rebuild it. The way I want to rebuild it though, is constant over time. It is based on my deeply felt values. I want a society where we all actively fight the impending doom called climate change. I want to see the end of capitalism. I want a society where we acknowledge the garbageman is just as valuable as the dentist. That's the type of revolutionary I am. I felt this way about society yesterday, today and tomorrow.
I feel called out on this, something my parents tell me a lot is ' you cant change the world/the system' and this always pains me. Idk how to express this but , the video helped me a lot w understand my feelings thank you smm
I’m glad you got something worthwhile from it, that’s really nice to hear! Feel free to check out the other ENFP videos on this channel if you haven’t already. Hopefully I’ll be making some more soon as well ~ Nathan
@@lovewho Yes i deffinitly will !!! ( that is what i was doing hdhdhd) thank you again, for all the effort and all !! i wish you the best :)))
I've travelled back and forth from the dark side to the light every other night for years. And now I have created a mid space where the unicorns can kill with their horns and the rainbows can blind.
This place treats friends kindly and destroys foes if they can even enter.
Oh boy that wasn't a very nice to thing say. Sorry!
But I really love your videos and really appreciate the effort you put into explaining all the types. I'm very grateful to you :') Thank you so much
Absolutely spot on. Your comment that if ENFP’s individuality and creativity is stamped out then they can become destructive revolutionaries as unbelievably accurate. My partner is an ESTJ he is establishment and authority and logic. He stamps on my ideas and enthusiasms to the point that feel myself becoming that revolutionary activist . I can’t believe you actually put into words what is literally happening in my life. Now I understand that maybe I can work with it without wanting to bring the house down !
Yeah rebellion for no destruction always preferable than with destruction of course
ENFPs are a lot like dogs. They are happy and excited lil fellahs who want to explore the world and make everyone happy. On the flipside of the coin a dog that has been beating up and not cared for will attack anything it can and will make it's personal goal to watch the world burn.
If I'd have to give the "Dark ENFP" a title it would probs be the Vengefull
I read that as “people are like hotdogs” initially and was really confused despite the fact that it somehow felt right to me ~ Nathan
@@lovewho That's pretty ridulous and it really made my not so happy day great! Thanks for the content and the responce! Been dealing with an ex I can't quite get over as I still care for her and want to help her feel better but she prefers to close herself in. I know I shouldn't force her and you helping me self improve really makes me feel a lot better about myself
Grateful for this video. My introverted neighbor noticed me withdraw as I've been going dark for a while after a breakup. It's *kinda* fun being dark but it's not *us* .I'm trying to get back to the rainbows but my ENFP+ADHD has me fixated on the *what was wrong with me* idea and I'm way down the rabbit hole.
😔
I truly appreciate your channel, Man!!
You are a very intelligent, passionate, and intellectual man, which I highly respect.
I particularly appreciated how you said the "Dark ENFP" has been or can be described as "A Dangerous Revolutionary."
Being a Rock Singer-Songwriter and Musician myself, I absolutely relate to that, but not from a hurtful, mean, or judgemental place.
From more of an "investigative, justice, or detective," if you will, standpoint, I personally feel and believe that when people and systems are not willing to do what is right, just, and honest, than being willing to hold people accountable for their wrongful actions is the most honorable action to take.
At least in my experience, as an ENFP myself, I have experienced in numerous situations throughout my entire life, especially currently, right now, where I will go to the end of the line, including being exhiled, betrayed, alienated, or even abandoned, to find out the truth.
I was obsessed with "Investigative Journalism" when I was in my late teens and throughout my early to mid twenties, and almost applied for a few Journalism programs.
So in conclusion, I greatly respect your willingness and passion to talk about the dark side of the ENFP personality type.
And one past thing.
As a Psychologist, myself, and Singer-Songwriter like I already stated, Karl Jung, Swiss Psychoanalysist, said it best, in that we must not suppress our Dark Side and shut it out.
I myself, completely agree with Karl Jung.
If more people were to realize how invaluable appropriately applying, incorporating, or blending their dark side into their daily lives is, as an active and conscious choice and course of actions, their would be way less Neuroticism, Violence, and Anger in societies around the World.
Thank you
Omgosh, thank you, I think I finally figured out what I am. I'm not a chaotic neutral INFP, I'm a dark ENFP. 😨
Maybe...
At least on social media I am!
I love chaotic neutrals ~ Nathan
Thanks for putting it in a way that Si things do not excite us, and not that we don't or can't do them. I find that more and more of my time is taken up with petty, stupid, time wasting (as I see it) mundane tasks (usually software update related things or picky paperwork crap that was most certainly not designed with ENFPs in mind). It's draining and feels soul-less to me, even though I've learned how to navigate it, out of if I don't I can't get anywhere I need to go or I'll miss a deadline for applying to a program I really wanted to do or some other bad thing will happen. It's so exhausting, and often I am too tired for the creative things that feed my soul.
This was actually so helpful, I would really like to see more ENFP videos, I actually understood a few things about my self that I was aware of but could not put my finger on, this video helped with that!
I could see all of that happening to me for sure if I didnt keep my head on a swivel. I've felt the urge to go in a few of those directions at low points in my life. So far, 32 years old, I've never went down that ally all the way.
One thing of me though, is as innovative as I am. I've always had a strong value for the wisdom and traditions of our ancestors. Maybe because of the great influence my Great Grandma and Granpa had on me. I always view that, every idea I get needs to be built up upon the best of the foundations that we now currently have. And that no new idea should be devoid of having a traditional foundation to build on. I also look at it as valuing other peoples ideas from the past. I've been fortunate to be balanced in that way.
Wow- I was NOT ready to get called out like that! Nice vid!!!
STOP. this scared me. That was so accurate omg
As an ENFP the extersential crisis is real. 'We are all fucked' was said and I do regret going so damn dark but now I'm back in my idealism and woo am I glad to be out of that! For now! ;)
Interesting take on enfp and NeSi dynamic. Change is good but finding the right balance is important.
Hmmmmm. I feel like this video is underestimating the rational and realistic abilities of the ENFP.
As an ENFP, both idealism and cynicism are much more extreme feelings/beliefs than I experience. I know I can come across as friendly and warm, and when I tell my clients or loved ones I believe they can do anything, overcome any hurdle, I mean it.
Yet I simultaneously know anyone can succumb to their own ego defenses and darkness at any moment.
I feel so completely ok with the play of dark and light energies in this world, it would be hard to have these emotional attachments and reactions you speak of.
So for me, my internal world feels much more neutral, detached and realistic than this person you are describing.
I would say my dark side is closer to being ruthless, detached, and able to put emotions aside to survive. Under stress I would say I become less emotional, not more.
I also know that ENFPs logical side is underestimated because we don’t care about being “seen” as logical. My logic doesn’t feel like “me” nor is it “not me” no attachment, no aversion. Just a tool to get the job done or get the party started.
That is so intresting to me because i got to "ignore" those matters that you said make a ENFP dark. I am now focusing on my own life and not on a system that I cant change anyways. So I guess I do what is also an ENFP thing to do, just being optimitic and avoiding conflict with myself
Ok that explained a lot of what happened with me in the last 5 years as an ENFP. Now how do I escape being too cynical and return to my optimist loving self or succeed generally?To help you help me, all started when reality hit my idealism which made me a pessimist about lots of things like relationships and jobs and many more.I still think I can save myself and have a brighter future though and I definitely refuse to give up trying.
"Even amidst their sparkling and strangely childlike demeanor, they harbor this sense that we're all ultimately f*****" that sounds like me in a nutshell
Completely understandable yet very hard to picture my ENFP that way, he always seems so pure to me. Seeing the dark side of myself, an INFJ however I know how well it exists.
dude you are so eloquent. as an enfp i think this is an amazing analytical explanation
One if not my absolute favourite ENFP channels / sources of info! I agree with what happens when we “go dark” … I’ve seen it at various points in my life!
Thanks Nathan. Really appreciate the clarity and subtlety of your take on ENFP. It's really useful and more in depth than other material I've seen! Keep it up, thank you x
BRILLIANT, BRILLIANT VIDEO!
YOU SIMPLY "NAILED' IT TO PERFECTION.
ALL THE CHARACTERISTICS YOU ENUMERATED ABOUT THE DARK SIDE OF AN ENFP ARE 100% CORRECT.
I have seen many, many videos on ENFPs but nothing compares to this short but prodigious description of a melnacholic ENFP.
Superb.
Much respect.
That ENFP gone dark idea of breaking the world structures and making your own sounds like an average day for an INTJ.
The fact that you used that specific quote from Daenerys, one of my favorite characters of all times and one of those I relate the most explains a lot. A lot.
You won this lifelong ENFP over! Subscribed & sharing the hell out of your stuffs. 🤩
Why thank you! Feel free to check out our Discord server too ~ Nathan
(ENFP here) Whenever I get into my darker thoughts I honestly sounds and look insane, and it scares me sometimes. I remember saying my honest and dark thoughts for the first time to my closest friends and she told me that I was scaring her. I started to laugh my butt off bc I left like I was going insane.
You absolutely nailed this. Right now my ENFP is dancing on the line of light and dark
This is a summary for the first 16 years of my life. The dark side is not just due to the fact that ENFPs use the analysis and deductions made during their "normal times" to manipulate the circumstances into fitting their needs, but it is sometimes paired with toxic positivity, which keeps accumulating and is later on given out to the world and hate and aggression, pure thirst for vengeance. However, I think that within the disease lies the cure, as in thr same idealistic ENFP is also curious... idealisticly curious, so automatically we will be seeking the truth. This is the journey of maturation I guess, which -in my experience- end up in realistic optimism, realising the balance of the universe and the little changes a person can do, seeing the world for what it is: the good in the evil and the evil in the good, yin and yang.
Yes. Especially that last part
Some of my fellow ENFPs think theyve crossed the line to enter the dark. I believe most of them don't have a clue what true pain,suffering and depression is. I know the darkness and now it is my only compass. The light was torn and taken away over a period of time.The story of how it happened is to painful and long to tell. Now all that remains is my intuition and the conviction that burns in my heart. I have become a Ronin.No Purpose but to carry the weight of beautiful memories long gone.
Godspeed Ronin
The accuracy of this video is actually scary!
As an INFP I sometimes find my ENFP friends (whom I love) can be very manipulative. Often willing to shut down their morals too when convenient for them. I guess that's something like an Ne-Te loop thing. They are also much better at getting things done whereas I just brood on forever
You did a phenomenal job describing the enfp dark side. I have an enfp relative I was reunited with a couple of years ago. She’s very unwell and operating from her shadow functions more often than not, while still being very entrenched in her youthful, naive idealist view of the world. I’m worried for her.
As an INTJ I actually kind of like being poked a little by the ENTP type, especially if they are a girl. I’ve honestly been waiting years for a girl like that to just sit down next to me and start talking to me. I’m way to shy to make a move, so I always just hope a girl will take the initiative and make the move herself. It’s happened a couple times, but they see it makes me uncomfortable and get scared off, when in reality yeah I’m uncomfortable, but I’m also loving being pushed outside my comfort zone a little. I look back on those times fondly and wish that I wasn’t so cynical about their motives and had tried to stop them from leaving.
This really was an excellent video which definitely resonated with me. Thank you so much for some insight. Would absolutely love more ENFP videos!
This enfp is so touched to make the channel 🥺🥺
ENFP woman here who has a few decades under her belt, is among other things a visual artist, and who is perfectly used to being the only one in any situation that stands out as not being like anyone else in the space without even trying. I like people a lot and inspiring them spontaneously or making them laugh is great fun. I know who to stay away from, too. Nathan, I like all of your ENFP videos because you have genuine respect and sensitivity combined with a terrific interest and accuracy for and in our type for which I gain much enjoyment! It’s true, though, that the world sucks, that being loved then abandoned is so common it is no longer a joke, and like minded folk are severely thin on the ground. I definitely have a dark side which gets indulged in private, But apart from this, my optimism and innocence prevails with every new day.
Thank you for this comment!
This, it the cynical realm of idealism that's pushing me so far away. This need for perfection and hard judgment before projects even get started doesn't sit well with me. Thankfully I can see thats how this analytical type prepares for big projects. It helps guide their persona that's important for manifestation. I feel like the complete opposite. I have a huge desire to just start and I get frustrated in the beginning because we're losing time analyzing. It's a struggle to stay on track and out of my head. Learning my inner personality shadows is seriously helpful. Maybe I'll have better luck expressing my needs instead of feeling everyone's frustration and the guilt from all the external obligations.
As an ENFP, hearing this is very interesting, I guess you could say I am the type who likes to live their life according to their own rythm and rules, when I was younger, I did try to stand out from the crowd and was rather defiant to traditions and rules, but as I grew up and matured, it seemed kind of pointless to me and I see things way differently now, I have no issue blending in and I managed to accept society and the world as it is, in fact I started to see beauty in so many of the aspects that I ve once hated. I just find it interesting regardless of wether I would follow that tradition or that method. I even started planning and try to build habits and routines.
As for my own life, I still live it exactly how I want to, but I am more considerate of my environement and the social norms and managed to adapt what I want with what society wants and needs. I am cinical and still think people are corrupted true, but I don't mind it that much anymore. I just accept it and move on, I don't need to change the world, I just need to be concerned about the few people I love and care about most.
Yes to more enfp vids please!
Loved this!
I love and hate being understood so well 😂 hello I’m an ENFP. Thanks for the video. I love being able to understand my flaws so I can make improvements. Understanding my weaknesses has helped me stay faithful to my wife so far 10 years. 🎉
I love that first quote by the way! Always felt related to it in some way :)
Thanks for posting these videos, they are interesting to watch!
Very interesting. As my ENFP friend likes to say, "Once again, my hopes have been dashed on the jagged rocks of reality." And he seems to derive a sense of satisfaction and relishes when things go wrong in society, as if to say "I told you so."
Wow....finally I can reeeaaally resonate with this so strongly! So I am a true ENFP. 💖
Thank you. I really needed to hear this.
Hmmmm...this seems quite accurate. Helps me process my own swirling whirls. Thank you. :)
Very accurate. It impresses me how well you can convey such a complicated subject. Well done :)
This is brilliant. I often think "Everything is great and the world is pull of possibilities but at the same time the planet is f***ed and we are all doomed" I feel so seen haha.
Spot on! My sister is an ENFP and is a huge environmental activist and now very cynical. She thinks humanity sucks (she's probably right) and can't be trusted.
I think SJs could be on our side if we provide a very detailed set of rules, balances and counterbalances (new ones less restrictive) on how to interact in the real world, otherwise they will be too afraid to change anything.
My shadow self is passive aggressive, depressive, ect... I could be like the Joker too, but I'm not dangerous. I hide... Somewhat like Robin Williams.. Great video. I am way Too emotional and feeling, that I have to see a Shrink to cope logically. Lol.
Ahh Robin Williams is an excellent example. Such a tragedy with him ~ Nathan