I went to art school at age 17, a long time ago. I quit after a few months because something traumatic happened. Because I quit, I felt so bad about myself, I didn't let myself draw, paint, or even look at art until last week. I'm now 43. I started painting last week and it's all coming out of me, like a flood. It's amazing I'm so excited and grateful. Loving this channel and all the beautiful artists online ❤️
I also believe that it's extremely important to guard your mouth. Speak life, "light", into yourself and others. Instead of saying " You and I had no talent. " Say, "You and I had to train to learn a lot more skills.", or something along those lines. I actually cringed inside because of the negative talk and felt yucky. Even earlier paintings, you could say, "Wow I've grown so much since then and learned so much more about light and shadow placement. ",rather than, saying how terrible your paintings were. It honestly felt like a put down session, and I don't think that is what you were going for. Love your podcasts, and I look forward to listening to more!
As I was younger, I was often told, that I am so talented. Now I would say, I was only way more fast than most of my fellows and able to put something on a piece of paper that they could identify as what it was. I had a friend, whose drawings looked really bad at the beginning, but who practised consistently over a long period of time. He got better and better and after a few years, he had his first paintings sold, while I never really worked on my skills and did not understand, that it is not about being seen as talented. Talent can be helpful. But it takes dedication and practice and learning to become a skill full artist. It is nothing that just comes out of you, and you will not unfold as an artist with this talent-lie in mind. Artists like Ellie and Esther are not born this way. They turned themselves into artists by hard work and dedication.
What held me back for most of my life was a Starving Artist and you need to find something stable you can count on getting a check every whatever pay period and you won't make money till you're deceased. I got rid of that mentality when I've worked (and done just fine) with other jobs but I was EXTREMELY unhappy. Now that I'm almost 50, I sa8d that's it. By 50 I want to be immersed in art and I don't want to limit myself any longer. Enormous thank you to everyone at Milan Art Institute for knowing it's never too late to learn and I don't need to be Dali, Monet, Rembrandt, etc right away.
Thank you Elli! super agree with your "you can do anything" motto! Whatever the mind of man can conceive and bring itself to BELIEVE it can achieve! Napoleon Hill. 3 doctors told me I was going blind 20 years ago. They showed me all their evidence. I refused their diagnosis, healed my eyes and now thankfully I am painting full time. Can't wait to take the Masters program in 2024! Love you guys!! Love one of Jake's opening comments.
Wow, Nancy! What an incredible story! You are an absolute rock star. We would be absolutely honored to have you in our Mastery Program. Can't wait to have you join us!
@@milanartapp me too can't wait, house is on the market now, as soon as it sells I'm calling you guys up to take my art and art business to the next level!! Thank you again to the whole team and graduating artists for all your inspiration!!!
I'm 68 and I've been an arts and crafts creative for all my life. But i never took art seriously because I was focused on doing jobs that paid money. I've only recently realised that what makes me happy is when im emersed in creative persuits and I love teaching. I left being a chef due to physical breaking down and went into photography thinking I was following my creative heart. Now I have returned to painting and have realised thats what I've always wanted to do. So now through you're encouragement I'm learning to be a better artist. I now know what I want to do when I grow up. Learning oils will complete me and enable me to run workshops to help the community feel the love of being creative. While I now believe i can supplement my pension to enable me to have a better life. So looking forward to starting the mastery program once I can pay and have cleared my schedule. I'm already practising some of the techniques you've made available through this channel. Thank you so much for showing me hope for the future xx
Robert, that is great! I am turning 65 and finally getting my act together to paint. I painted here and there a little over the years but I know I have to work hard and steady. Congrats to us both for chasing an artist's future!
Wow.. so inspirational. Been a nurse 20yrs and always did some kind of art but I just recently realized I wanna get a headscarf for when I retire and paint EVERYDAY.. thinking about starting Mastery Program in Jan.
I’m a beginner artist. Teaching myself watercolors since last October. I absolutely love this video. I find it very useful to hear advice from advanced/professional artists. I’ll be watching other videos in this channel and Pls do more like this one
I have been painting since I was 7, on and off. I sold my first painting when I was 13 but never attacked it properly. I was so stressed just supporting myself, I didn't really GO FOR IT. i am retired and disabled, so I am returning to painting and really loving it. I am ALWAYS keen to learn more and more. I try to maintain "beginner's mind" all the time and hope to never give up that thirst for knowledge, inspiration and fresh skills! I am most interested in two things: improving painting skills and learning how to sell things as a person who is physically compromised, which wasn't my problem when I was younger! I have plans for three series of paintings. Two of them should be completed within the next year and a half, at which point I will need to shift to selling. I anticipate spending about 6 months recapturing and improving skills. So, the first priority is skills improvement. Any videos on that will be keenly watched.
I agree with you. Not everybody can dunk a basketball, not everybody can become a mathematician, a doctor, or an engineer, etc. it’s a fantasy to think that everyone can become anything. We could try, but we may fail at it and that’s OK.
I didn’t have art lessons growing up but I had a tin of children tempera paints and only used these paints (& the brush inside) as I didn’t know there were other paints or brushes nor did I know about different papers. Lived rural. In my early 20s moved to Vancouver bc and heard of Emily Carr School of art. I worked in daytime in a warehouse. I saw a flyer I think (1981 maybe) that the school was offering evening classes. It said to bring portfolio. I just gathered the paintings that I still had (some of my paintings sold previously I wasn’t even trying to sell). I didn’t know why they wanted to look at my tempera paintings (on writing paper) but I brought them in completely unprepared for what was to come. I just wanted to learn. There were two older white males (i am also white female around 21-22 then) they were cold and MEAN. They flipped through my paintings and cut them down (cut me down) saying mean things dismissive & abusive and turned me down i could not even take an evening class there. No suggestions for me, only mean. I am 65 now and have barely painted since and if I do i NEVER let anyone see what I made. Not even my very kind and supportive husband. I had a stroke six years ago so even much harder now. I watch UA-cams of artists and listen to The Savvy Painter. I don’t want to die without learning how to paint, even though I have very bad tremors now. Thank you for your channel! ~kari west coast Canada
I couldn’t agree more with your viewpoints on “talent“. When I was a child, I was told that I was very talented at art all the time, and I didn’t perceive it that way because it took so much effort in discipline for me to sit there and make something. I would see other artists as well as I grew older so effortlessly sketch and draw and it wasn’t easy for me like that. I always told people I wasn’t talented. I was just stubborn dedicated and discipline enough to sit in front of some thing until I figure it out. Another reason I never pursued art as a career. but yes, as an adult whether building or acting or whatever creative thing I may be doing there is always one mantra in my mind and that is “hard work beats talent every day of the week“. But your perspective on art is so refreshing to me because I was always told I was just going to be a starving artist and I never really knew there was a market out there for creativity the way that you all use your mediums and simply just making something that looks great.I certainly have a lot to learn and unfamiliarity myself with regards to my mentality, but that’s beautiful because that means there’s so much more room for growth and creativity.
OK, not sure if my last comment actually went through… For starters, I am so happy and grateful that I stumbled upon this channel! I have learned so much not just in regards to my work, but also the mentality that goes behind it and the business. It’s absolutely remarkable. I’ve definitely been in my own way my entire life with a perfectionist mindset, and was certainly a slave to the judgment of the system. I am in love with the idea of using multi mediums on canvas. That is the number one thing that always inspired me 20 years ago in high school even was taking as many mediums as I can and putting them together, but I mostly did that with sculpture. I was always taught traditionally, and 20 years of our class it was only acrylics or watercolors or oils on canvas alone. So anyway, with that said, I was curious if you could potentially shed some light on some basics for me on a piece that I’m working on now… I am intrigued by your course and I just found this two days ago so I am trying to figure out the financials, but I am very eager to complete this piece. Maybe I can get a feel idea for what is to come. Basically it’s an old painting that I’ve done that I’ve been looking to rework. It is all acrylic. And I would love to add some oils and glazes and inks to it. My question is, do I have to spray my canvas after I draw or sketch on it? And is there an order in which I have to apply these mediums in order for them to adhere properly to the canvas? Also, do I need to use darker oils before lighter? And the only other three things I’ve been trying to research is, the difference in benefit between opaque, transparent oils, and how I could use them to my advantage as well as this Gladick, I keep hearing referenced in your videos. If I’m rambling, lol, as I mentioned before, my hands are full of paint and I’m using my microphone so lol. Thank you so much for your time! I hope you have a wonderful and creative day.😊
It's fun to paint and be creative. I listen to Eli and appreciate all her videos. I started to paint after New Year's and followed a few tutorials. I don't feel like putting my artwork up for sale but I don't want to trash them either. Any thoughts on this?
Loved this reinforces so many things I believed for myself and when mentoring others. Really liked the point about finding someone to mentor you who is just a bit above you that's a great tip also helps me feel better about those I have helped for a time and have moved on that's how it's meant to be. ❤️
I’m that person whom keeps telling ppl n myself that I can never do art because who am I? My cousin studied arts in school and me? A drop out even before I started school… it’s time I tell myself I can do art ❤
I was in the university track in my small town school and the art classes were where they parked the troubled students. So I went 5 decades before ever picking up a brush or pencil. The emphasis on having to go to art school to be able to create art is misplaced and unfair in my book.
Question: what do you do with the bad paintings. Just throw them away? Take them to a flee market? Gift them to people that do like them. I have a nomad life style. We have to live clutter free life and being an artist, it seams almost impossible.
There's no right or wrong answer to your Qs -- it's up to each individual to adjust to their own circumstances. Some do throw things away, others never do (until x, Y Z happens). Just do what you feel works best for you.
Hi, What advise do you have for someone with painting experience? How to sell your work? What galleries to work with? What size oil paintings sell the most?
Hmmmm -- mentoring is a nice concept in theory, but in practice, you have to be embedded in a society/community that actually has fellow painters/artists. Then you need to search out and get to know someone 1) better than you, but preferably not so much better that they think you waste their already limited painting time (or NOTA BENE who feel defensive, fearing you will become their competition on an already crowded market.) Then 2) the community should not be primarily populated with non-artists who see your work and want YOU to be THEIR mentor/teacher.... I don't mean to sound critical or cynical, but artists who are already established and talking among themselves seem to forget or never knew the struggles that artists living in "art deserts" requiring regular jobs, work hours and so-called "normalcy" have to deal with. It's no wonder so many of us just muddle through. 🙂
I agree with what was said about desire and that creates talent. You want it so you try and fail and learn and try more and ask questions and practice and grow and fail and try more and take classes and learn and grow and the try and the practice comes from desire and courage to fail because the desire outweighs the fear of failure. Talent is a myth in my opinion.
Because Esther was going to a “bad”art School, does not mean every art School is bad in Russia. What a bunch of BS she says. I know a lot who was going to art School in Russia, as say it was amazing etc. And they learn A LOT.
27:00 Please don't overdo the good painting/bad painting dichotomy. So far as I'm concerned I make paintings, some are good enough to hang on a wall others maybe not so. Artists are probably their own harshest critics and its important to remember, every painting is part of a process not the destination. This is why you can play with the genre and have triptych, series of ... and so on. The playful part of art is the most enjoyable as you don't know where it will lead you
... yes, besides, even Monet went back (sometimes years later) and made his "bad" paintings better. That is part of my hobbyists' learning process too -- recognizing what I did "wrong" in Painting A makes Painting B, C, and so on better later . I've been sparing myself much of the marketing and sales stress and simply painting works that I like when they're finally finished -- which can take weeks, months and years in certain cases as I learn more and more about by craft. No harm, no foul..
He doesn't get it a , about the dunking... go Eli... I know what you were getting at, sorry Male brain and female brain, are so different... ali is 100 % correct go for it, otherwise what is the point of painting..
Learn more about our one-year art program that is designed to take anyone at any level in art and turn them into a professional: masteryprogram.com
I went to art school at age 17, a long time ago. I quit after a few months because something traumatic happened. Because I quit, I felt so bad about myself, I didn't let myself draw, paint, or even look at art until last week. I'm now 43. I started painting last week and it's all coming out of me, like a flood. It's amazing I'm so excited and grateful. Loving this channel and all the beautiful artists online ❤️
I also believe that it's extremely important to guard your mouth. Speak life, "light", into yourself and others. Instead of saying " You and I had no talent. " Say, "You and I had to train to learn a lot more skills.", or something along those lines. I actually cringed inside because of the negative talk and felt yucky. Even earlier paintings, you could say, "Wow I've grown so much since then and learned so much more about light and shadow placement. ",rather than, saying how terrible your paintings were. It honestly felt like a put down session, and I don't think that is what you were going for. Love your podcasts, and I look forward to listening to more!
As I was younger, I was often told, that I am so talented. Now I would say, I was only way more fast than most of my fellows and able to put something on a piece of paper that they could identify as what it was. I had a friend, whose drawings looked really bad at the beginning, but who practised consistently over a long period of time. He got better and better and after a few years, he had his first paintings sold, while I never really worked on my skills and did not understand, that it is not about being seen as talented. Talent can be helpful. But it takes dedication and practice and learning to become a skill full artist. It is nothing that just comes out of you, and you will not unfold as an artist with this talent-lie in mind. Artists like Ellie and Esther are not born this way. They turned themselves into artists by hard work and dedication.
What held me back for most of my life was a Starving Artist and you need to find something stable you can count on getting a check every whatever pay period and you won't make money till you're deceased. I got rid of that mentality when I've worked (and done just fine) with other jobs but I was EXTREMELY unhappy. Now that I'm almost 50, I sa8d that's it. By 50 I want to be immersed in art and I don't want to limit myself any longer. Enormous thank you to everyone at Milan Art Institute for knowing it's never too late to learn and I don't need to be Dali, Monet, Rembrandt, etc right away.
Talent made me lazy and I’ve struggled with that, it’s true that no talent can make you so persistent and good in the end!
Thank you Elli! super agree with your "you can do anything" motto! Whatever the mind of man can conceive and bring itself to BELIEVE it can achieve! Napoleon Hill. 3 doctors told me I was going blind 20 years ago. They showed me all their evidence. I refused their diagnosis, healed my eyes and now thankfully I am painting full time. Can't wait to take the Masters program in 2024! Love you guys!! Love one of Jake's opening comments.
Wow, Nancy! What an incredible story! You are an absolute rock star. We would be absolutely honored to have you in our Mastery Program. Can't wait to have you join us!
@@milanartapp me too can't wait, house is on the market now, as soon as it sells I'm calling you guys up to take my art and art business to the next level!! Thank you again to the whole team and graduating artists for all your inspiration!!!
I'm 68 and I've been an arts and crafts creative for all my life. But i never took art seriously because I was focused on doing jobs that paid money.
I've only recently realised that what makes me happy is when im emersed in creative persuits and I love teaching.
I left being a chef due to physical breaking down and went into photography thinking I was following my creative heart. Now I have returned to painting and have realised thats what I've always wanted to do. So now through you're encouragement I'm learning to be a better artist.
I now know what I want to do when I grow up.
Learning oils will complete me and enable me to run workshops to help the community feel the love of being creative. While I now believe i can supplement my pension to enable me to have a better life.
So looking forward to starting the mastery program once I can pay and have cleared my schedule.
I'm already practising some of the techniques you've made available through this channel. Thank you so much for showing me hope for the future xx
Wow Robert that is so amazing! We’re so happy that you’re deciding to pursue your passion. We can’t wait to watch you grow and develop your skills😍
Robert, that is great! I am turning 65 and finally getting my act together to paint. I painted here and there a little over the years but I know I have to work hard and steady. Congrats to us both for chasing an artist's future!
Wow.. so inspirational. Been a nurse 20yrs and always did some kind of art but I just recently realized I wanna get a headscarf for when I retire and paint EVERYDAY.. thinking about starting Mastery Program in Jan.
@@belindaroca4577 you should do it. It'll change your life 👍😁
I love your mom, Elli! 👏👏👏❤️ Great parenting skills to instil in you that the sky is not the limit!
I’m a beginner artist. Teaching myself watercolors since last October. I absolutely love this video. I find it very useful to hear advice from advanced/professional artists. I’ll be watching other videos in this channel and Pls do more like this one
I have been painting since I was 7, on and off. I sold my first painting when I was 13 but never attacked it properly. I was so stressed just supporting myself, I didn't really GO FOR IT. i am retired and disabled, so I am returning to painting and really loving it. I am ALWAYS keen to learn more and more. I try to maintain "beginner's mind" all the time and hope to never give up that thirst for knowledge, inspiration and fresh skills! I am most interested in two things: improving painting skills and learning how to sell things as a person who is physically compromised, which wasn't my problem when I was younger! I have plans for three series of paintings. Two of them should be completed within the next year and a half, at which point I will need to shift to selling. I anticipate spending about 6 months recapturing and improving skills. So, the first priority is skills improvement. Any videos on that will be keenly watched.
I like how Jake mentions all these great books he was influenced by. Great tips. Thanks!
I agree with you. Not everybody can dunk a basketball, not everybody can become a mathematician, a doctor, or an engineer, etc. it’s a fantasy to think that everyone can become anything. We could try, but we may fail at it and that’s OK.
I didn’t have art lessons growing up but I had a tin of children tempera paints and only used these paints (& the brush inside) as I didn’t know there were other paints or brushes nor did I know about different papers. Lived rural. In my early 20s moved to Vancouver bc and heard of Emily Carr School of art. I worked in daytime in a warehouse. I saw a flyer I think (1981 maybe) that the school was offering evening classes. It said to bring portfolio. I just gathered the paintings that I still had (some of my paintings sold previously I wasn’t even trying to sell). I didn’t know why they wanted to look at my tempera paintings (on writing paper) but I brought them in completely unprepared for what was to come. I just wanted to learn. There were two older white males (i am also white female around 21-22 then) they were cold and MEAN. They flipped through my paintings and cut them down (cut me down) saying mean things dismissive & abusive and turned me down i could not even take an evening class there. No suggestions for me, only mean. I am 65 now and have barely painted since and if I do i NEVER let anyone see what I made. Not even my very kind and supportive husband. I had a stroke six years ago so even much harder now. I watch UA-cams of artists and listen to The Savvy Painter. I don’t want to die without learning how to paint, even though I have very bad tremors now. Thank you for your channel!
~kari west coast Canada
I'm so sorry you had that experience. Please never let anyone tell you you're not good enough. You are.
@@kylabriggs6261 thank you for your kindness
Oh my goodness I SO feel that wanting to burn my old pieces. Every time I go over to my parents home and see the paintings hanging all over. 😂
I love your podcasts so much. Thanks ❤❤❤
I couldn’t agree more with your viewpoints on “talent“. When I was a child, I was told that I was very talented at art all the time, and I didn’t perceive it that way because it took so much effort in discipline for me to sit there and make something. I would see other artists as well as I grew older so effortlessly sketch and draw and it wasn’t easy for me like that. I always told people I wasn’t talented. I was just stubborn dedicated and discipline enough to sit in front of some thing until I figure it out. Another reason I never pursued art as a career. but yes, as an adult whether building or acting or whatever creative thing I may be doing there is always one mantra in my mind and that is “hard work beats talent every day of the week“. But your perspective on art is so refreshing to me because I was always told I was just going to be a starving artist and I never really knew there was a market out there for creativity the way that you all use your mediums and simply just making something that looks great.I certainly have a lot to learn and unfamiliarity myself with regards to my mentality, but that’s beautiful because that means there’s so much more room for growth and creativity.
OK, not sure if my last comment actually went through… For starters, I am so happy and grateful that I stumbled upon this channel! I have learned so much not just in regards to my work, but also the mentality that goes behind it and the business. It’s absolutely remarkable. I’ve definitely been in my own way my entire life with a perfectionist mindset, and was certainly a slave to the judgment of the system. I am in love with the idea of using multi mediums on canvas. That is the number one thing that always inspired me 20 years ago in high school even was taking as many mediums as I can and putting them together, but I mostly did that with sculpture. I was always taught traditionally, and 20 years of our class it was only acrylics or watercolors or oils on canvas alone. So anyway, with that said, I was curious if you could potentially shed some light on some basics for me on a piece that I’m working on now… I am intrigued by your course and I just found this two days ago so I am trying to figure out the financials, but I am very eager to complete this piece. Maybe I can get a feel idea for what is to come. Basically it’s an old painting that I’ve done that I’ve been looking to rework. It is all acrylic. And I would love to add some oils and glazes and inks to it. My question is, do I have to spray my canvas after I draw or sketch on it? And is there an order in which I have to apply these mediums in order for them to adhere properly to the canvas? Also, do I need to use darker oils before lighter? And the only other three things I’ve been trying to research is, the difference in benefit between opaque, transparent oils, and how I could use them to my advantage as well as this Gladick, I keep hearing referenced in your videos. If I’m rambling, lol, as I mentioned before, my hands are full of paint and I’m using my microphone so lol. Thank you so much for your time! I hope you have a wonderful and creative day.😊
And his name was Muggsy Bouges. Great player, miss that era
I will definitely ( if I could) have Alli as my mentor. She does speak my language....from A to Z ...
Such a great video...been nurse over 20yrs. my age 58... that's holding me back
thank you for being so honest and genuine I really appreciate your time and efforts this was helpful in some way thank you so much
Thank you for asking all the right questions!
Great tips
It's fun to paint and be creative. I listen to Eli and appreciate all her videos. I started to paint after New Year's and followed a few tutorials. I don't feel like putting my artwork up for sale but I don't want to trash them either. Any thoughts on this?
Loved this reinforces so many things I believed for myself and when mentoring others. Really liked the point about finding someone to mentor you who is just a bit above you that's a great tip also helps me feel better about those I have helped for a time and have moved on that's how it's meant to be. ❤️
I’m that person whom keeps telling ppl n myself that I can never do art because who am I? My cousin studied arts in school and me? A drop out even before I started school… it’s time I tell myself I can do art ❤
I was in the university track in my small town school and the art classes were where they parked the troubled students. So I went 5 decades before ever picking up a brush or pencil. The emphasis on having to go to art school to be able to create art is misplaced and unfair in my book.
Desire is the word.
Question: what do you do with the bad paintings. Just throw them away? Take them to a flee market? Gift them to people that do like them. I have a nomad life style. We have to live clutter free life and being an artist, it seams almost impossible.
There's no right or wrong answer to your Qs -- it's up to each individual to adjust to their own circumstances. Some do throw things away, others never do (until x, Y Z happens). Just do what you feel works best for you.
Mind over matter is the most important thing in life. The rest will follow.
Thanks, very encouraging.
The ball player that played for Charlotte and was 5’3’’ was Mugsy Bogues
Hi, What advise do you have for someone with painting experience? How to sell your work?
What galleries to work with?
What size oil paintings sell the most?
The basketball player was Muggsy Bogues
Hmmmm -- mentoring is a nice concept in theory, but in practice, you have to be embedded in a society/community that actually has fellow painters/artists. Then you need to search out and get to know someone 1) better than you, but preferably not so much better that they think you waste their already limited painting time (or NOTA BENE who feel defensive, fearing you will become their competition on an already crowded market.) Then 2) the community should not be primarily populated with non-artists who see your work and want YOU to be THEIR mentor/teacher....
I don't mean to sound critical or cynical, but artists who are already established and talking among themselves seem to forget or never knew the struggles that artists living in "art deserts" requiring regular jobs, work hours and so-called "normalcy" have to deal with. It's no wonder so many of us just muddle through. 🙂
It was Muggsy Bogues, Elli! Spud was a few inches taller
would love to knlw whether the mentor you choose should paint in your desired way ❤
I agree with what was said about desire and that creates talent. You want it so you try and fail and learn and try more and ask questions and practice and grow and fail and try more and take classes and learn and grow and the try and the practice comes from desire and courage to fail because the desire outweighs the fear of failure. Talent is a myth in my opinion.
Can you please show the names of who your speaking with? Also links to their sites?
Because Esther was going to a “bad”art School, does not mean every art School is bad in Russia. What a bunch of BS she says. I know a lot who was going to art School in Russia, as say it was amazing etc. And they learn A LOT.
Not everyone knows the definition of the word "talent," just substitute it for the word " skilled ".
Like your show
who is the young lady? why not say their names at the beginning ?
I wish it was a life Podcast 📻
27:00 Please don't overdo the good painting/bad painting dichotomy. So far as I'm concerned I make paintings, some are good enough to hang on a wall others maybe not so. Artists are probably their own harshest critics and its important to remember, every painting is part of a process not the destination. This is why you can play with the genre and have triptych, series of ... and so on. The playful part of art is the most enjoyable as you don't know where it will lead you
... yes, besides, even Monet went back (sometimes years later) and made his "bad" paintings better. That is part of my hobbyists' learning process too -- recognizing what I did "wrong" in Painting A makes Painting B, C, and so on better later . I've been sparing myself much of the marketing and sales stress and simply painting works that I like when they're finally finished -- which can take weeks, months and years in certain cases as I learn more and more about by craft. No harm, no foul..
Ama new biginner artist
Bribing is a real thing in art??
He doesn't get it a , about the dunking... go Eli...
I know what you were getting at, sorry Male brain and female brain, are so different... ali is 100 % correct go for it, otherwise what is the point of painting..
Yes, we agree!