a little trick for unselecting stuff on the right side of the screen it shows you a list of every thing you select so you can shift click, this deselects all that building
To cut down on the changes to blueprints and make your platforms more identical, you could send a signal of the shape pre-rotated to the correct place along each N/S row. All you have to do is rotate the signal once per platform each time you pass the signal east from the receiver platform. Then every row is exactly the same!
I just got done building this stage for my MAM so it was really interesting to see the similarities/differences between how you and I did it. Love this series.
"This is going to be expensive." LOL! That's hilarious. I don't think that is going to be a problem for you, my good sir. You have over 8M blueprint credits.
Love your videos and way of thinking. You're my go to when I play any factory games. I built a MAM but it's way more complicated than yours. And I'm a programmer btw (just because you mentioned that we'd laugh at your designs previously) 😄
So I might need to edit this comment later since I haven’t finished the video yet, but I designed my color delivery the same way you did the shapes, so it delivers the color I need to one lane, and then to the exact shape it’s supposed to go to. I posted a picture of it in the discord.
Nice design and very well explained. Don't worry if "it looks simple" : it's a feature of a good design I'm a C++ dev and my experience is that thinking of a design that works is easy. But designing the simplest system that still performs as efficiently and reliably is what engineers should strive for, as Antoine St Exupery once said more eloquently than me.
Thanks Nilaus! You're the best! Now. It's time to start over and take all this knowledge into a new map and expand. I'm envisioning several new automated outposts making mega trains worth of shapes and trying to break the game.
I'm playing with having all the logic calculated and routed to the MAM units... if you have a layer at the top for the logic, the signal can transport down the 4 blocks as each block loses a transport belt out of the left. That way you only have one transmitter precalc all the logic at the top and transmit it down.
😮I finally got both MAM machines working. I honestly don't know how you did it. I consider myself smart but there's no way I would have figured out to the point that you did. You sir are the biggest hero in this game for me. I would have given up on MAM except for your videos. I did manage to make the MAM much more efficient. What else am I going to do while waiting on things to complete. Once again thank you. BTW the logic for the crystal MAM doesn't work when there is 2 blank shapes together. I had to program if both stack otherwise pick the one that's available. Had to do that on a 1x2.
I've napkin-planned out a method to merge the 4 shapes by abusing the fact that you can swap halves and with simple rotations can assemble 4 lines of the shapes you need. It is very important you get the rotations correct though. So assuming each shape is numbered 1, 2, 3, 4 and you're facing north, similar to how Nilaus arranges. To construct a shape with the northeast starting as 1 clockwise 1, 2, 3, 4. You swap-cut 1 and 2, 3 and 4. You rotate the halves of 1 and 2 so 1 half is on the south and 2 half on the north, and rotate the halves of 3 and 4 so 3 half is on the north and 4 half is on the south. You swap the two inner lines so you have a half of 2 and 1 next to 3 and 4, then you swap-cut them once again, so you would have 4 identical lines of 3, 4, 1, 2. Rotate 180 and you have a proper shape. The beauty of this method is that if you have a blank on the first swap cut, you could instead route in a split cut in its place. When swapping, as long as the two inputs have SOMETHING in them, they will swap blanks as well. You could technically swap-cut two halves into a whole and a blank.
Mistakes were made. Half of them are mirrored. Burn it all down! AAAAA! Edit: Okay, I think I got it resolved, it involves rotating the mirrored shapes by a quarter turn counter clockwise, splitting the shape into two, rotating them a quarter turn so the halves are on the north, swap-cutting them, rotating them a quarter back out again in opposite directions, then swap-cutting them again so it makes a whole shape and a blank space.
This uses a total of 9 Operations at worst, 4 Operations for best possible scenario, since they basically create 2 concurrent paths, 2 of them will resolve in the same way, and the other two will be mirrored. The rest is simply routing the items for the swap around.
This is a super clean build! Couple questions: 1. Have you done the math on the throughput of the MAM once it is complete? If so can you go over that at some point? 2. Have you considered using wiring instead of receivers for communication between MAM modules? It would probably allow for more MAMs to be running at the same time working on other shapes without conflicts.
i know im not not nilaus, but here's my answers: 1) at it's current the mam should produce 4x3 belts at full throughput. however there is a long windup. and it'll only get longer as we add more complexity. (pins\crystals\more layers) 2) if you restrict yourself to 4+1 channels per MAM you can have two MAMs working on both the random shaps. a solution working with wires across the board is definitely possible, but it will need bigger platforms and thus a different layout to allow for long wire lines, see 14:40 nilaus touches on an example that's very similar to the issue it i also find it an interesting idea to explore
woooow ! so amazing ! a great job and it appears so simple . i hope i will succeed to create a MAM like yours but i doubt a little ^^ Thx for tips, it'll help me, i'm sure ;)
It seems to me like the merger/stacker and bin can be compressed into a 2x2 platform instead. im not sure if you have tried it just a thing that went into my mind while watching the video. Hope you explore it next time.
It's so cool to see this coming together. Watching it just autonomously make the shapes is super satisfying. I was surprised you had to hardcode the colors on each painting platform, though. Is there no module to sample the color of paint in a pipe, so it can be self-detecting?
Nope. Currently the game has a belt reader, so you can make your shape inputs dynamic, but not the color inputs. There is currently no "pipe reader" in the game.
He explained why he wasn't mixing on site - the original comment was about reading the contents of the pipes in the blueprint instead of using a fixed value. I went ahead and checked and there actually isn't a wire building that reads the contents of a pipe. Which seems weird to me since there is a wire building that reads the contents of a conveyor belt and outputs a signal. Maybe they'll add that in another update.
@@thr3308 yeah, I never meant "why no on-site mix", I like how he did that the way he did; but good to know there's just no "color reader", that's what i was wondering about.
10:14 For the shapes you read out the shape that came inbound and compared that with the shape you want to achieve. That way you managed to avoid to manually enter the shapes they used. Why don't you do that for the colors as well? Would make copy-pasting easier.
@@vulcanfeline This is still an Early Access build. Once the full game is released, it should have it. There's an official suggestion area and the "pipe reader" one is listed as "planned".
For some reason, in my game the simulated unstackers keep getting bugged out (showing incorrect values). It had the top half as the bottom half (and vice versa). Replacing the bugged unstacker fixes the issue.
To make it more compact would it be possible to only have 1 painting station and the selector selects the proper color? I thinkI'm misssing something important tho
In his design it doesn't work, because he brings in each color separated. So he needs the space anyway to bring in the colore. If he would mix color and color it combined, he could make it much more compact, because he just has the three colors as input instead of 7, but also much more complex within the machines.
I’m in normal mode so I only have 3 layers and my wires are still flickering after I replaced the globule wire receivers and I tested it in hard mode and it stoped flickering if this is a hard fix I’ll just use hard mode
the thing is... when the shape is completely send.. and a litle of them is still loading in the train station.. how you delete those from mixing with the new shape in the train station? you do it manually?
If you have e.g. 10 shapes of type A in the trainstation, each shape of type B will delete one. So it will go from 10 down to 0 with the first 10 shapes coming in. So 11th shape type B will change the station to the symbol of Type B.
I am following the series but for colors I sorted that yday, I have a big platform that check all 4 quarters' colors and send 1 pipe of each, that way I can paint every color in just 1 platform wide
maybe stupid question, but how does the machine deal witrh a shape that needs a red and a blue part of a circle on 1 layer? Since you are painting the full circle before cutting that isnt possible, no? Or am i missing something
Yes it does. Every row handles one corner and if the corner needs paint it will be applied. (The paint will be applied to the full shape but then cut to corners and rotated to the correct rotation of the corner that this row is handling)
Could you detect the color in the paint pipe coming from the bottom so that the shape is exactly the same for all the painters? In programming we try to vary the input rather than the code (where possible) so the same code works in many difference places or environments.
There currently isn't a "pipe reader" in the game that can detect the color that's flowing in a pipe. There is only the belt reader. No other option than to hardcode the colors at the moment.
10:20 - I wonder what happens when a shape requires for example white and blue rectangles as well as red and blue circles. 11:43 - there's plenty space. you know that you can stack circuits as well? you don't have to do every circuit in 2D. that's a bit silly. 30:43 - I'm curious and wonder how messy the train lines might be.
![Clever Way To Add Pins To The MAKE ANYTHING MACHINE [MAM] | 04 | Shapez 2 | Tutorial/Guide](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/EFXyL8N0mjg/mqdefault.jpg)
![Clever Way To Add Pins To The MAKE ANYTHING MACHINE [MAM] | 04 | Shapez 2 | Tutorial/Guide](/img/tr.png)
![Hardest Challenge: Adding CRYSTALS To MAKE ANYTHING MACHINE [MAM] | 05 | Shapez 2 | Tutorial/Guide](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/42gEmN-pDfg/mqdefault.jpg)
The selection of "do I have two things or one" gets a _lot_ easier with xor gates
Also useful for equality checking.
Tho, there is an easier way in sh2, but in digital logic its also used for this
a little trick for unselecting stuff on the right side of the screen it shows you a list of every thing you select so you can shift click, this deselects all that building
To cut down on the changes to blueprints and make your platforms more identical, you could send a signal of the shape pre-rotated to the correct place along each N/S row. All you have to do is rotate the signal once per platform each time you pass the signal east from the receiver platform. Then every row is exactly the same!
I just got done building this stage for my MAM so it was really interesting to see the similarities/differences between how you and I did it. Love this series.
"This is going to be expensive." LOL! That's hilarious. I don't think that is going to be a problem for you, my good sir. You have over 8M blueprint credits.
Love your videos and way of thinking. You're my go to when I play any factory games. I built a MAM but it's way more complicated than yours. And I'm a programmer btw (just because you mentioned that we'd laugh at your designs previously) 😄
imo as a programmer, we can complicate anything, hehe
Gets better in every episode! mesmerized
Very cool. I love how flexible these MAM build can be.
So I might need to edit this comment later since I haven’t finished the video yet, but I designed my color delivery the same way you did the shapes, so it delivers the color I need to one lane, and then to the exact shape it’s supposed to go to. I posted a picture of it in the discord.
Nice design and very well explained. Don't worry if "it looks simple" : it's a feature of a good design
I'm a C++ dev and my experience is that thinking of a design that works is easy. But designing the simplest system that still performs as efficiently and reliably is what engineers should strive for, as Antoine St Exupery once said more eloquently than me.
As always, so clean. Nice job !
Yay two levels! So fun watching, thanks!
Thanks Nilaus! You're the best! Now. It's time to start over and take all this knowledge into a new map and expand. I'm envisioning several new automated outposts making mega trains worth of shapes and trying to break the game.
So excited to see how you do colors
I'm playing with having all the logic calculated and routed to the MAM units... if you have a layer at the top for the logic, the signal can transport down the 4 blocks as each block loses a transport belt out of the left. That way you only have one transmitter precalc all the logic at the top and transmit it down.
The Pipe Gate, from Update 0.8 will made his MAM so much simpler an smaller ☺️
😮I finally got both MAM machines working. I honestly don't know how you did it. I consider myself smart but there's no way I would have figured out to the point that you did. You sir are the biggest hero in this game for me. I would have given up on MAM except for your videos. I did manage to make the MAM much more efficient. What else am I going to do while waiting on things to complete. Once again thank you. BTW the logic for the crystal MAM doesn't work when there is 2 blank shapes together. I had to program if both stack otherwise pick the one that's available. Had to do that on a 1x2.
I've napkin-planned out a method to merge the 4 shapes by abusing the fact that you can swap halves and with simple rotations can assemble 4 lines of the shapes you need. It is very important you get the rotations correct though. So assuming each shape is numbered 1, 2, 3, 4 and you're facing north, similar to how Nilaus arranges. To construct a shape with the northeast starting as 1 clockwise 1, 2, 3, 4. You swap-cut 1 and 2, 3 and 4. You rotate the halves of 1 and 2 so 1 half is on the south and 2 half on the north, and rotate the halves of 3 and 4 so 3 half is on the north and 4 half is on the south. You swap the two inner lines so you have a half of 2 and 1 next to 3 and 4, then you swap-cut them once again, so you would have 4 identical lines of 3, 4, 1, 2. Rotate 180 and you have a proper shape. The beauty of this method is that if you have a blank on the first swap cut, you could instead route in a split cut in its place. When swapping, as long as the two inputs have SOMETHING in them, they will swap blanks as well. You could technically swap-cut two halves into a whole and a blank.
Mistakes were made. Half of them are mirrored. Burn it all down! AAAAA!
Edit: Okay, I think I got it resolved, it involves rotating the mirrored shapes by a quarter turn counter clockwise, splitting the shape into two, rotating them a quarter turn so the halves are on the north, swap-cutting them, rotating them a quarter back out again in opposite directions, then swap-cutting them again so it makes a whole shape and a blank space.
This uses a total of 9 Operations at worst, 4 Operations for best possible scenario, since they basically create 2 concurrent paths, 2 of them will resolve in the same way, and the other two will be mirrored. The rest is simply routing the items for the swap around.
This is a super clean build! Couple questions:
1. Have you done the math on the throughput of the MAM once it is complete? If so can you go over that at some point?
2. Have you considered using wiring instead of receivers for communication between MAM modules? It would probably allow for more MAMs to be running at the same time working on other shapes without conflicts.
i know im not not nilaus, but here's my answers:
1) at it's current the mam should produce 4x3 belts at full throughput. however there is a long windup. and it'll only get longer as we add more complexity. (pins\crystals\more layers)
2) if you restrict yourself to 4+1 channels per MAM you can have two MAMs working on both the random shaps.
a solution working with wires across the board is definitely possible, but it will need bigger platforms and thus a different layout to allow for long wire lines, see 14:40 nilaus touches on an example that's very similar to the issue
it i also find it an interesting idea to explore
@@hazir7618 Would be nice if the platforms had a dedicated wire port on each face/level.
woooow ! so amazing ! a great job and it appears so simple . i hope i will succeed to create a MAM like yours but i doubt a little ^^
Thx for tips, it'll help me, i'm sure ;)
That is an absolutely perfect layout! Peak efficiency
Lucky on the pipe gate decision. There is a current tracked bug where the pipe gate only outputs ~80% flow when not in focus.
It seems to me like the merger/stacker and bin can be compressed into a 2x2 platform instead. im not sure if you have tried it just a thing that went into my mind while watching the video. Hope you explore it next time.
If you spent a lil time you can make the monster 60-70% ish smaller
It's so cool to see this coming together. Watching it just autonomously make the shapes is super satisfying. I was surprised you had to hardcode the colors on each painting platform, though. Is there no module to sample the color of paint in a pipe, so it can be self-detecting?
Nope. Currently the game has a belt reader, so you can make your shape inputs dynamic, but not the color inputs. There is currently no "pipe reader" in the game.
is there no way to dynamically get the color from a pipe's content? because right now, every single color needs its own blueprint.
there is a pipe filter, yes. so in theory you only need to bring in red, green and blue and then mix on site per color needed.
I wondered about that. It's a pretty tight fit - maybe there isn't a great way to thread that signal through to where it would need to go.
Pretty sure he explained it pretty early in the video. It was because it will probably take up a lot of space.
He explained why he wasn't mixing on site - the original comment was about reading the contents of the pipes in the blueprint instead of using a fixed value. I went ahead and checked and there actually isn't a wire building that reads the contents of a pipe. Which seems weird to me since there is a wire building that reads the contents of a conveyor belt and outputs a signal. Maybe they'll add that in another update.
@@thr3308 yeah, I never meant "why no on-site mix", I like how he did that the way he did; but good to know there's just no "color reader", that's what i was wondering about.
Can this MAM handle shapes, when all Segements from one Layer have the same Form but diferent colors?
10:14 For the shapes you read out the shape that came inbound and compared that with the shape you want to achieve. That way you managed to avoid to manually enter the shapes they used.
Why don't you do that for the colors as well?
Would make copy-pasting easier.
There isn't a pipe reader in the game
@@smrqunofficial i don't know why there isn't a pipe reader. wonder what they were thinking about when the didn't include it
@@vulcanfeline This is still an Early Access build. Once the full game is released, it should have it. There's an official suggestion area and the "pipe reader" one is listed as "planned".
For some reason, in my game the simulated unstackers keep getting bugged out (showing incorrect values). It had the top half as the bottom half (and vice versa).
Replacing the bugged unstacker fixes the issue.
The switchable pipe is fun but it has 1800 limit at the moment which makes it take up too much space to use really
You may want to do crystals before pins. I haven't come across any pins in the Random Operator Shapez yet...
Starts at lvl 50 for ROS#0
Not sure if it’s bad rng or a change since the video. But I got layers before I got colors so I had to
Jump around a bit
To make it more compact would it be possible to only have 1 painting station and the selector selects the proper color? I thinkI'm misssing something important tho
In his design it doesn't work, because he brings in each color separated. So he needs the space anyway to bring in the colore.
If he would mix color and color it combined, he could make it much more compact, because he just has the three colors as input instead of 7, but also much more complex within the machines.
I’m in normal mode so I only have 3 layers and my wires are still flickering after I replaced the globule wire receivers and I tested it in hard mode and it stoped flickering if this is a hard fix I’ll just use hard mode
the thing is... when the shape is completely send.. and a litle of them is still loading in the train station.. how you delete those from mixing with the new shape in the train station? you do it manually?
If you have e.g. 10 shapes of type A in the trainstation, each shape of type B will delete one. So it will go from 10 down to 0 with the first 10 shapes coming in. So 11th shape type B will change the station to the symbol of Type B.
i think the And-gate is the right one to go...if red and red then go
I am following the series but for colors I sorted that yday, I have a big platform that check all 4 quarters' colors and send 1 pipe of each, that way I can paint every color in just 1 platform wide
Can you route the liquids via logic?
maybe stupid question, but how does the machine deal witrh a shape that needs a red and a blue part of a circle on 1 layer? Since you are painting the full circle before cutting that isnt possible, no? Or am i missing something
Yes it does. Every row handles one corner and if the corner needs paint it will be applied. (The paint will be applied to the full shape but then cut to corners and rotated to the correct rotation of the corner that this row is handling)
@@michaelpfistner7785 Omg, im stupid 😂 You're completely right, thanks for the clarification:)
The selector Will send circlesto the correct row(s), 1 Will be red and 1 Will be blue, then it gets processed and merged
Feels like "auto claim" wont be in the base game for a long time, akin to factorios auto launch...
I just clicked on the blinking star
The pipes is too slow in this project
Could you detect the color in the paint pipe coming from the bottom so that the shape is exactly the same for all the painters?
In programming we try to vary the input rather than the code (where possible) so the same code works in many difference places or environments.
There currently isn't a "pipe reader" in the game that can detect the color that's flowing in a pipe. There is only the belt reader. No other option than to hardcode the colors at the moment.
Love your videos but you talk and do things really fast. Wish you could take it down from x2 speed to maybe x1.5?
10:20 - I wonder what happens when a shape requires for example white and blue rectangles as well as red and blue circles.
11:43 - there's plenty space. you know that you can stack circuits as well? you don't have to do every circuit in 2D. that's a bit silly.
30:43 - I'm curious and wonder how messy the train lines might be.