Flu Season Brookes is such a crazy villain. He took over Normal Brookes' body so that he could become a talented artist and storyteller, but the process left him too sick to do anything. They both suffered because of this, but in the end Normal Brookes was able to drive him off.
Wait- but what if this so called villain was secretly meaning good behind the scenes? We may have thought he was doing bad, but was he building Brookes's immunities all along? *_Gasp!_* Such a plot twist!
5:46 This reminds me of that very famous quote from Skyrim's Paarthurnax: “What is better? To be born good, or to overcome your evil nature through great effort?” (Context for anyone who doesn't know: He is a dragon, naturally evil and destructive, but he became good by his own choice.)
It's definitely an interesting idea, in that situation, the storyteller is teaching you the lesson that "selfishness wins". It all goes back to, what are you trying to say?
Abraham Carreto letting them “conquer the world” might not be very satisfying (though i guess that’s the point lol), but letting them prove something about the protagonist, like trying to twist them out of shape or make them do something they wouldn’t normally, now that’s a spicy area to explore. making them fail their macro goal but still succeed in a micro one might even be better than total domination lol
Abraham Carreto I can think of hundreds of examples where the hero wins at the end, right off the top of my head. For example, take the recently popular (and fair warning: very mature, not at all safe for work) Netflix anime Devilman Crybaby, where everybody (both hero and villain) lose at the end. It's not saying "selfishness wins" or whatever. Sometimes, it's a lesson of "if you don't try hard enough/if you give up then you'll fail", sometimes the story is about failure, or et cetera; in fact the most popular iteration of the "bad end" by far is to make the point that the hero we were taught to root for was, this whole time, just as bad as if not worse than the villains, which is fairly common in most non-Western media.
Abraham Carreto I googled it, not a big Cinema buff myself. Fight Club, Chinatown, Watchmen, 1984, Hannibal, plenty horror movies, Silence of the Lambs, Memento, all showed up on the top of the list when I Googled "movie where the bad guy wins".
One thing for sure, villains always have a cool theme song, I guess that's why everybody likes villains even more. Plus, even villains deserve some lovers, eh? Edit : ohmygod yo I forgot I wrote this comment but yes, usually villains have more interesting details rather than the 'all-good super powerful' hero.
I know one that doesn't have a theme song. In the movie you barely know anything _about_ the guy. All you really know is... He's evil. For no apparent reason, might I add.
My perspective on the matter is, on a traditionalist level, the Good Guy exists to maintain the status quo and the bad guy exists to challenge it. If you want to make your hero more interesting, invert these. This way, the hero wants to create change and the villain wants to keep things the same. The stories where people like the bad guy generally have the bad guy working towards a goal while the hero simply exists as an obstacle. Make the villain an obstacle to your hero’s goal instead. The hero should be creating interesting scenarios, not trying to prevent them. There’s a reason Star Wars makes the heroes the rebels instead of the empire under siege. People love an underdog, and unless you want people to like your villain, do not make your villain the underdog.
@Harry Schroder nah, in my opinion, most villains wants good change. Of course as a human, we always do bad things for good. I hope you understand, I have terrible brain
You made a great point to write a great hero and he/she won’t be overshadowed by the bad guy. Another way would be giving your hero a few flaws like Tony Stark/IronMan he always tries to do his best but sometimes his stubbornness makes him have bad decisions.
Avatar: Legend of Korra baby. every antagonist is not only compelling and threatening in their own right, but defendably understandable and human and sympathetic. a good villian is a hero forced into the wrong place, not just cruelty for cruelty’s sake. they could stand to have better endings though... if endings at all... (yes, even Unalaq was cool. he’s pretty much Loki the more i think about it lol.)
You have good points but Id have used Avatar, because I didn't really like the way Korra devloved into kaiju the way Naruto did. Also I just wasn't a fan of where the world eneded up after Avatar, and Korra wasn't really appealing to me at first
I love this channel. Your actually helping me out with my story. It's no where near finished, but it has gotten a lot farther with your help. Thanks so much. ☺️
This totally makes sense. When I used to watch Pokemon I loved Team Rocket and hated Ash and co. I found Ash boring and bland where Team Rocket were funny and endearing in their endeavours.
Interesting question. The best villain is one we can relate to (same as the hero). To use an anti-hero example, why is Rorschach so popular? He's violent, bigoted, and according to Silk Specter, smells bad. Yet we love him. Why? Because he has his code and will not yield one inch no matter what. We can relate to Two Face and Harvey Dent's struggle with his anger. We can relate to Scarecrow's desire to inflict fear on those who inflicted it on us. And Magneto, a man who saw the Holocaust. Of course he's going to try anything to save his people at any cost. We understand what these things can drive people to do.
I find giving your villain a understandable and unique motivation. Now I admit this is rather hard but if you can give your villain a good motivation it is definitely worth it and makes them more believable. Trust me on this one
A jar of pickles It’s very difficult to give the villain a good motivation because if it’s TOO good, then you’ll have your audience rooting for the villain and that’s not good
Despite this, one of my favorite heroes in recent time has been Superman. You know, usually the guy who's seen as too boring because he doesn't have a very complicated inner conflict, or glaring flaws, or anything like that. With stories like Superman For All Seasons or Superman Smashes the Klan, I really just find him an endearing, down-to-earth role model. It's that story of a man with good intentions, trying to use his gifts to help people and feeling an endless duty TO use them as much as possible that I personally connect with.
Another thing I think many people are getting wrong, you don’t have to make the protagonist bland in order for everyone to feel for them. They can be different and still be sympathetic, they just have to be the voice of reason.
Idk I tend to like ‘villains’ because they have qualities I wish I had. Confidence. Dark appeal. Respect (even though they are hated they still get full attention when in a room haha). Outspoken. Memorable. A personality. I feel like hero characters tend to be just ‘good people’.
Tony Stark is pretty confident and charming and he is a hero. Actually he is the best movie hero in recent years. I don’t think all villains are more interesting and cooler than our heroes. Can happen but not always the case.
I wouldn't be surprised if Brookes gets to 1 Million subscribers one day Some of my favorite UA-camrs started off slow [PBG, Nathan Sharp, etc] so it wouldn't be much of a surprise to me Also, I'd just like to mention my appreciation for Mr. Eggleston's videos, they have been tremendously helpful to me [despite not watching all videos, I consider myself new here] I would enjoy donating and getting criticism, but due to my young age, I cannot Nonetheless, thank you, Mr. Eggleston, for making these videos for us all I'll be honest, I'd likely wouldn't catch on to [at least] a third of some of the more obvious things in storytelling and character design [shape language, color theory, flawed characters, etc]
Can you make a villain that believes what he's doing is right? One that believes he's being a hero? I've been trying to create my first villain and he's a big member of this worlds government. The hero of my story has an illness that would be dangerous to society normally and Mr.Government(that's what we'll call him for now) tries his upmost to get rid of the hero, even if he must kill him.
Brookes Eggleston - Character Design Forge okay I hate to bother you but I have another question...so would it be a bad idea to make a villain who knew he was doing the wrong thing? One who knew he was evil and was okay with that?
SweetDream ゆめ No, it wouldn't be bad to make a villain that knows what he's doing is wrong. There's plenty people in real life who know they are bad people and are okay with it.
Okay so idk if this is a decent concept, feedback would be appreciated. I’ve always found villains way more compelling than heroes (when written well, mind you)-it’s just something I’ve always thought. So I was thinking, as a general outline, this: The protagonists would be heroes and whatnot, with powers they were born with and good intentions; the antagonists would be their polar opposites. Since the story or whatever would be from the protagonists’ POV, therein lies the possibility of unreliable narration. Throughout the story or whatever, their powers would slowly twist them into having less and less morals; since the villains are their polar opposites they’d inversely become more and more moral. By the end, it’d be revealed that the protagonists are now the evil ones, and the villains would stop them. I feel like it’d be really interesting to see a fall from grace like that, the protagonists constantly justifying themselves to the reader. It’d really defy the norm. Idk though, just a random idea I had. I would love to see thoughts on it, since I’m not much of a storyteller.
I think that's what devillainized (for the villain part only). I'm thinking it's like Hans from Frozen good to bad and Elsa from bad to good, unless Hans has no progression of being bad instead a twist villain. I would say Elsa is a good example, she started as a villain by how I intepret her actions, started off by ruining the party and running away, refuses to elaborate with Anna and hurt her, but in the end she saved Anna and the village, the progression isn't as simple as I describe it but that's a bad to good guy concept I could think of. Hans sucks
Still working and sharing work with your audience despite being seriously ill?? Thats amazing. Thank you for your hard work. And yes villains are usually more likable because they have flaws and flaws are relatable. Im pro villain more often than not myself! Excellent points you’ve brought out!
One thing that in my opinion makes villains (and any other character) interesting is their values. They might be willing to do nasty things to get to their goals but they have that one line that they will not cross. Of course values will develop and might change over time but that is a part of character arc and storytelling. Villains having a character arc is almost always interesting to see. If writer is not aware of their characters' values, it could lead to characters becoming plot devices rather than the driving force of the story. The channel The Closer Look did an interesting video on this topic through Marvel and DC universes. He also did a video on Spiderman 2 and talked about the sacrifice to be the hero.
I have an idea for a character design. A selfish prince who supposed to be the King since his father’s dead, but a warlord from an other country occupied his Kingdom. At first he vows for vengeance, but later as many people died the last of the Royal dynasty gives up on war & goes on a more spiritual journey. Turning from greedy aristocrat to a selfless hero with a sword that once granted titles of nobility to a tool of self defense & the protector of wayfarers.
This video is so cool! And not just because I was wondering why I preferred Kylo Ren over Rey. 😂 Seriously this gives me a ton to think about in my writing/drawing process.
THANK YOU!! I've suffered this problem for so long (great villain, terrible protags) and I've been wanting to see why for ages. Thanks for making this video!
Brookes Eggleston - Character Design Forge Those player character options get REALLY tricky to program. The Avatar you play as in a video game just doesn't work the same as a normal character in a normal story, in a way not even many video game devs yet understand; some interesting examples to look into, if you want to do a short study, are the unexpected player reactions to Lara Croft and Samus Aran during their first outings. Truly, it's fascinating how vastly the simple addition of interactivity changes the rules of storytelling. What works and how it works just is not the same (hence why so many Cinema and lit buffs get all negative about the medium haha, it's not a matter of snobbiness it's just sheer confusion).
One thing I've heard lots of people say about villians (I forget where the exact quote is from) is, "They are who they are without apology" In that case, one way to make protagonists more interesting could be having them question who they are, and when they finally figure it out they could be just as enjoyable as the villian!
I dont know about story but I often like the villain because of their designs (visual and personality). Not like I think the main character is boring I just really like alot of the design tropes that are common to villains.
Brookes Eggleston - Character Design Forge I’ve watched a video about Romantic Subplots, do you have any tips on it too? I would love to hear your opinion.
brilliant video! it was really helpful :D but I would say that Kylo isn't the best example for a good villain but characters like Catra from the She ra reboot and Zuko from Avatar the Last Airbender are great.
The metal masked assassin is my favorite “villain”. His backstory is actually pretty sad, he loses his brothers and got brainwashed alongside his group. He is a violent cannibal that I feel bad for. Sometimes, I root for the villains and not the good guys. But yeah. I simp for him
Thank YOU for making this videos! I really like the way you explain and talk, seriously, this channel should have a lot more recognition. Almost forgot, congratulations with the 50k subscribers!! (sorry for my bad english) Loves from South America.
clicked this video for inspiration an it worked :) i want to write my own story but im having trouble with the hero and the villain but now i know what to do hopefully by the end of this month i should be writing my first novel thanks :)
Quick question (Assuming anyone answers) What if the villain is a robot that can't think for themselves and is just focused on following a mission? The T 1000 from Terminator 2 Judgement Day did this and he still became one of the greatest villains in cinima.
@@CharacterDesignForge makes sense. I'm currently working on a story with a robot antagonist that comes from the future with a mission to infect other robots with a virus making them hostile towards humans in order to replace them with machines.
I honestly thought I hit the wrong video when I saw that unrecognizable Brookes in the beginning, lol. We both got the flu around the same time. Man, how relatable it was when you described being unable to do a thing and but agonize over the pain. And finally, a HUGE congratulations to 50K subscribers!!! What an inspiration!
Another big problem between heroes and villains is that villains are usually a more active force in the story. This is way more interesting than a usually passive protagonist who reacts to the villain. The thing you can do about hero characters is having them have a motivation outside of the villain. Have the protagonist push the story forward as much as the villain.
Super interesting and insightful video! And lol I remembered Malekith’s name since Dark World is one of my favourites (not because Malekith, but indeed because Loki 😂👌🏻)
My take on this. Villians are more interresting because they are active and heros often reactive. The villian always has agoal and something to strive toward and heros tend to fall into the pit of only trying to keep the status quo. A change in perspective is needed to avoid this trap. Give both the villian and hero opposing goals. This is done well in Dragonball z the freeza arc. The heros and villians all want the dragonballs to gain their wish, bringing back their friends and immortality respectively. The conflict between these parties is natural because only 1 of them can achieve their goal and they both need the dragonballs to achieve them. Both the villians and heros are active here. Ps: I am sorry to say this but I did not find Kylo Renn interresting. His motivations were all over the place changing to whatever the plot needed it to be instead of driving the plot.
This really helps me a lot! I have a story, and I'm still debating who the villain is, and what their motive would be. I've gone back and forth with who it is but change my mind at the last minute. (I also struggle with the point of the story is... like a lot). But this has helped me decide who the villain is, and what their motive for being bad is. I've decided that one of the main characters brother, who has been struggling with his inner demons for almost his entire life is going to be the main antagonist. He struggles with Bipolar disorder, so he could be fighting one minute and then be good the next minute. This causes a lot of internal conflict and guilt for him. (I'm sorry if I get anything wrong I haven't done much studying on Bipolar disorder yet.) Another reason he is bad, is almost his entire race has been wiped out due to the fact that they were a strong species, and they were quickly multiplying. The remaining survivors are mostly in hiding. His brother was taken away at a young age to spare their lives. since then they have been hiding in the middle of nowhere in fear. He learned to defend his family when he was younger since his sister was only a baby and had no parents. She was the light of his life, but when she grew older, she took the side of the resistance (they killed off his family). Which basically made him snap. I'm still working on the plot holes, but if you have any suggestions please feel free to comment and tell me. (my deviantart: winterschild937.deviantart.com)
I've had an idea on the back burner for a while and i want to screw around by making the villain the protagonist (some morally grey bull but i think it would be fun)
1:23 to 1:51 Perfectly described that Marvel Knights: Black Panther cartoon. I swear to God, I actually wanted to see Klaw win in that one and I was dissapointed when he didn't.
People like confident and cool people even if they are bad people. This doesn't happen only with fictional characters but with real people too. That's why so many dictators and mass murderers had and still have so many followers. The difference is that In real life, we usually feel the consequence of people's bad actions but not in the fictional world.
It seem,be a villain is interesting because,you can heartless , doing anything as you like,like killing people or some one and you can invite your enemies from your enemies to became as your allies, ,that why became villain is interesting 😊
Four minutes in I get a spoiler for the video I was about to watch. It was this or likeable characters and I chose this to watch first because it was shorter, not 26 minutes. XD Should've gone with my first choice, LOL
This is kind of late, but this is part of the reason why Magneto and Professor X are so compelling. They're both essentially aiming for the same thing, but they both have different ways of going about it and come to odds. It's not "reacting and acting", they're both proactive and opposing one another because one's methodology clashes with the other's. X-Men was a boon between the 1970s and late 1990s.
One of the reasons I also think the good guys are bland, is because they start off good and stay stagnant for most of the story. This is why I think characters with more development are liked a lot more.
That's probably because of the "Good is Boring" cliche, used to distinguish the conventionally moral White Male Lead hero from a gay-coded, foreign, rich and neurodiverse villain. If you define "good" just as "saves lives," rather than white hats, drinking only milk and saving cats from trees, and vary the hero's ethnic identity, you can make more interesting heroes. Have them break a date with their poly family to save the world from an alien invasion, lol!
I mean not all good guys are the same and there was atcually times where I like the protagonists more then the antagonists themselves, so yea protagonist's have a lot potential to be better then people think.
First villain who I like it was Skeletor from He Man. The old version. And even that he was evil, that he want rule all kingdom and he looks scary. It's doesn't matter. When I'm saw him I always smiling even when he laugh. I don't say He Man itself was boring. No. But For some reason I give sympathy to Skeletor.
I just noticed that I made my character be both selfless and selfish at the same time. Because it is just so obsessed with following the law and it’s ethics that it ends up putting everything and everyone including itself as a second priority. So you could say that it is Selfless because it is willing to sacrifice itself for the greater good, but it is selfish because it is able to sacrifice everything else for following it’s ethics and mindset blindly.
Explains how my deuteragonist/Villainous character wins everyone who is introduced to her over, its usual because shes got alot of flaws, anger and also a pretty good design
I always liked villains who in any other context would be considered the good guy of the story. I don’t see it too often and I think that’s a shame. Like Captain America will do what he feels is right even when everyone else says it’s a bad idea or a wrong choice because he’s the Paragon of Good, but what if that impulsive almost selfish desire for good turns out to be the wrong choice in some instance? He suddenly becomes the bad guy, he’s not a fallen hero, he isn’t some anti-hero he’s an impulsive do gooder with poor judgment, in a context like this framing this guy as your antagonist and your protagonist trying to stop him suddenly makes a compelling story and also is very natural for this Dark Paragon to comes to blows with your protagonist, because you can’t stop him from doing what he feels is right.
Villains are often conflicted characters, even in the older shows and stories, while the good guys are the ones keeping their integrity no matter what. With a very traditional good guy - there is not much you can do - there is room for growth, some maturing, but the core ideas and values will usually remain the same. In classic shows from 80s and 90s - it is actually the villain who struggles most of the time. Note the formula - it is the villain who invents the plot and that plot gets completely demolished by a good guy - even if the good guy has some sort of a long terms goal, it still feels like a passive endeavour in comparison. Another thing - in order to be the force of good, the protagonists have to be the most broad - good in the most generic ways possible. It is ambiguous, left without focus. And they can't really delve into intricacies - because that would potentially delve into various grey areas and could give our Saturday Morning villain some credit. Villains also tend to be much more charismatic - creators often have more... freedom with them, while with good guys, they often appear... bland. There is again, lack of contrast and proper emotion in them. And finally there is the question of the design. Villains get all the cool looking stuff and it is a large part of the appeal. Cool robes, badass looking armour, you name it. Star Wars is a good example - Jedi tend to be your generic plain robe wearing guys. Sith? Just look at Darth Vader. Seriously. But even when you look at Palpatine - a generic robed guy, right? Nope, the way the robe looks on him, covering his face, the ominous presence despite the posture of a frail old man - it all emanates with sense of mystery and dread - it shows that there is always more to know about this character. More traditional good guys have nothing to hide - all in plain sight. And the worst thing? It never changes - even in terms of the most rudimentary shows, villains still tend to have those qualities that good guys simply don't. And complexity often emphasises it.
Batman has shades of gray that’s why I like him so much. He’s gothic, a tragic character with flaws, plus he’s literally a HUMAN BEING who’s had trauma in his life.
As a self proclaimed Villain lover, allow me to express my fondness for villains. Ever since I heard stories I've always been sympathetic towards villains. Perhaps because even when the story that was presented to me was as basic and shallow as something like "The Three Little Pigs". I would see how the villain (the Wolf) struggles and tries so hard to get what they want. Whereas many heros are given/bestowed with gifts that make them powerful. I couldn't help but root for the villains so often in my childhood even when I knew that if the good guys lost it would be very terrible and sad, but because I saw ingenuity, determination to never give up, the guile and courage to keep preserving despite often being alone in the villain I was more often eager to see them succeed than the heros. These traits are if nothing else necessarily for takling life and even though I knew the villain was wrong in their ambitions I wanted to believe they still deserved some kind of reward for their endless gumption. And it's funny because you'd think that these traits would be given to the heros but nope. And I think this is where many protagonists can fail at being compelling when the writers don't let the audience feel and see them struggle painfully to achieve their goals. Anyone who works hard to get what they want is automatically much more likable and memorable. The best example of this kind of villain is of course Dr. Doofenshmirtz. He can be slighted over the most petty thing and I'd still want his plans to succeed because he works so darn hard to make them happen xD his dedication is something admirable. Then in adolescence I discovered a new kid of villain. My favorite villain in fact: the embodiment of pure id. Forgive me for using Fuerdian terms but I think there's no other way to put it. A villain who is purely self serving and I love with their own villainy is the most fun. Now this type of villain tends to not be very complex and for some that is a draw back. But for me, it's not a problem because for me the best villains in this category provide for an incredible catharsis. This completely selfish villain is a villain because of their complete disregard for the rules. Societal conventions, morality, none of it matters to them, they do whatever they want because they just feel like it. And having that kind of power is intoxicating. In a way these villains are all about being free, perusing their desires with no regard for anyone else is as terrifying as it can be entertaining. My best example is of Course The Joker. But not every villain in this category has to be unhinged(although admittedly I do love that too), but simply they are uncompromising in their values like Shego from Kim Possible, she just loves evil and she ain't gonna give it up. This kind of villain stands at the opposite end of heros like Peter Parker who constantly have to struggle with their superego and keeping a balance between their wants and needs of the "greater good". That's why villains that are just joyful homicidal killers are so loveable to me because through them I can take a break from the heavy burden that is always keeping yourself in check. Doing the right thing isn't easy, almost never is. Heros like Peter are so great because they show that struggle. But heros that stand in stark contrast are so much fun to see them do absolutely horrible things. And I feel like people have forgotten this. Course that's not to say that a villain that is dominated by their super ego isn't interesting either tho. On the contrary they can be vastly complex and relatable as well but of course they aren't free like the aforementioned. I guess I'm just a sucker for chaotic evil because deep down we'd all love that power trip to do whatever we want. Nowadays complex villains are all the rage, but I often see them excited if not very poorly then just not good enough that they don't make an impression. A complex villain requires a lot of time and thought and the truth is depending on your story it would be better for your story to put this time in making your protagonists complex. I love a complex villain too don't get me wrong but not every story needs one. Sometimes you just need to give the hint of the villain being more complex than they seem but don't make a villain complex for the sake of being complex if the heros can stand toe to toe with them. And that's just a few reasons why I love villains.
I think villains are more interesting than protagonists because "wanting to do the right thing" is a natural trait that most people understand. Its much more interesting to find out why someone would want to do the opposite, which doesn't usually come naturally.
It might be because villains are oftentimes so different from the everyday people we see on the road that we just can't help but be fascinated. Meanwhile, when crafting the heros, writers somehow tend to create the most generic human beings you could ever imagine. Protagonists don't need to be generic to be relatable imao
The main villain in my story is definitely one of the most interesting characters in it. Her backstory is the most developed so far and I really sympathize with all that she's been through. I would love her a lot if her goal in the story wasn't to commit mass genocide... then again if she wasn't trying to do that there'd be no story, so I suppose it's not all bad.
But how does one make an interesting and great villain that you don’t want people to want to care about or feel like they can be redeemed? I get that villains are made but I don’t want people to like or root for my villain, but I also don’t want him to be poorly written or unbelievable
I think one of the few cases where the protagonist and antagonist are equally matched in being liked is Death Note. Having a villain protagonist and a… ambiguously “heroic” antagonist with understandable goals, similarities in their methodology, and just interesting characterization made them both a case where the hero and villain garnered near equal favorability.
Yeah, but what happens when your hero *IS* the villain? I’m trying to avoid just making my main cast as outright villain protagonists-that’d be taking the easy way out-but instead I’m trying to find a way for them to be ruthless (but not heartless), brutal (but not barbaric), and violent (but not psychotic). It’s always been extremely hard for me to find that perfect balance of seeing bad guys’ desperate pleas for mercy falling on the MC’s deaf ears and yet still be a loving, compassionate family. Not strictly “evil” but more like the darker side of Rebel Neutral. On an unrelated note, I’ve been trying to find an excuse to work in a few Chaotic Evil non-Villains; one of my MC’s fits the bill for Lawful Evil for her self-centered personality and how much fun she has just toying with and manipulating her prey, but she’s more-or-less a “good guy who refuses to admit they’re good” (if that makes any sense).
Has there been any story plots where the hero character goes after a villain but in the end it was the hero who was the villain and vice versa the whole time? I don't know if this sounds interesting or confusing...
You talk about the trend where villains act and heroes react as a reason villains are more interesting. You indicate that it’s less significant, but I am curious of your thoughts on the dynamic being flipped and the hero acts and the villain hinders.
It's interesting trying to see their point of view, what they're thinking and their motivations, and also, many artists make their villains like, ultra hot, and having the best Soundtrack themes................
Why doesn’t Peter Parker abandon his social life in order to full fill his hero career commitments? He is clearly doesn’t have great multitasking skills.
Flu Season Brookes is such a crazy villain. He took over Normal Brookes' body so that he could become a talented artist and storyteller, but the process left him too sick to do anything. They both suffered because of this, but in the end Normal Brookes was able to drive him off.
😂 This is a very good comment, enjoy the pin
Shrimp Mania I never heard such a good villain character since Darth Vader
Wait- but what if this so called villain was secretly meaning good behind the scenes? We may have thought he was doing bad, but was he building Brookes's immunities all along? *_Gasp!_* Such a plot twist!
@@natwal06 *Whispers* scar from lion king ooooooooowowoowoooo
@@galaxythedragonshifter heck yeah! scar is amazing :)
5:46
This reminds me of that very famous quote from Skyrim's Paarthurnax: “What is better? To be born good, or to overcome your evil nature through great effort?”
(Context for anyone who doesn't know: He is a dragon, naturally evil and destructive, but he became good by his own choice.)
Very cool, interesting! It's definitely more compelling that way.
I actually really like Paarthurnax, he's a cool character.
I've always wondered why there couldnt be a story where the villain wins. Like....it would be a nice plot twist
It's definitely an interesting idea, in that situation, the storyteller is teaching you the lesson that "selfishness wins". It all goes back to, what are you trying to say?
Abraham Carreto
letting them “conquer the world” might not be very satisfying (though i guess that’s the point lol), but letting them prove something about the protagonist, like trying to twist them out of shape or make them do something they wouldn’t normally, now that’s a spicy area to explore. making them fail their macro goal but still succeed in a micro one might even be better than total domination lol
Abraham Carreto I can think of hundreds of examples where the hero wins at the end, right off the top of my head. For example, take the recently popular (and fair warning: very mature, not at all safe for work) Netflix anime Devilman Crybaby, where everybody (both hero and villain) lose at the end.
It's not saying "selfishness wins" or whatever. Sometimes, it's a lesson of "if you don't try hard enough/if you give up then you'll fail", sometimes the story is about failure, or et cetera; in fact the most popular iteration of the "bad end" by far is to make the point that the hero we were taught to root for was, this whole time, just as bad as if not worse than the villains, which is fairly common in most non-Western media.
gLItcHyGeAR what about in the form of a movie?
Abraham Carreto I googled it, not a big Cinema buff myself. Fight Club, Chinatown, Watchmen, 1984, Hannibal, plenty horror movies, Silence of the Lambs, Memento, all showed up on the top of the list when I Googled "movie where the bad guy wins".
My favorite protagonists are those who are proactive. They have a goal they want and will do what they can to achieve it.
Same here!
One thing for sure, villains always have a cool theme song, I guess that's why everybody likes villains even more. Plus, even villains deserve some lovers, eh?
Edit : ohmygod yo I forgot I wrote this comment but yes, usually villains have more interesting details rather than the 'all-good super powerful' hero.
Yeah, Design too, Dark Mephisto
And some of them have tragic backstory like Shigaraki.
I know one that doesn't have a theme song. In the movie you barely know anything _about_ the guy. All you really know is... He's evil. For no apparent reason, might I add.
My perspective on the matter is, on a traditionalist level, the Good Guy exists to maintain the status quo and the bad guy exists to challenge it.
If you want to make your hero more interesting, invert these. This way, the hero wants to create change and the villain wants to keep things the same. The stories where people like the bad guy generally have the bad guy working towards a goal while the hero simply exists as an obstacle. Make the villain an obstacle to your hero’s goal instead. The hero should be creating interesting scenarios, not trying to prevent them.
There’s a reason Star Wars makes the heroes the rebels instead of the empire under siege. People love an underdog, and unless you want people to like your villain, do not make your villain the underdog.
@Harry Schroder nah, in my opinion, most villains wants good change. Of course as a human, we always do bad things for good. I hope you understand, I have terrible brain
That reminds me of Aang and Zuko in ATLA
Then again Darth Vader is literally the coolest character to ever exist.
There’s a few other examples such as the Hunger games but for the most part it hasn’t been done too much
You made a great point to write a great hero and he/she won’t be overshadowed by the bad guy.
Another way would be giving your hero a few flaws like Tony Stark/IronMan he always tries to do his best but sometimes his stubbornness makes him have bad decisions.
Avatar: Legend of Korra baby.
every antagonist is not only compelling and threatening in their own right, but defendably understandable and human and sympathetic. a good villian is a hero forced into the wrong place, not just cruelty for cruelty’s sake.
they could stand to have better endings though... if endings at all...
(yes, even Unalaq was cool. he’s pretty much Loki the more i think about it lol.)
or a hero who secretly was just a normal guy wanting exitment, once that exitement disepeared he becomes the villian just to reach that exitement
Legend of Korra always baffles me how I enjoyed the villains way more than the heroes. I am suppose to route for Korra and her group of fuckers.
You have good points but Id have used Avatar, because I didn't really like the way Korra devloved into kaiju the way Naruto did.
Also I just wasn't a fan of where the world eneded up after Avatar, and Korra wasn't really appealing to me at first
I love this channel. Your actually helping me out with my story. It's no where near finished, but it has gotten a lot farther with your help. Thanks so much. ☺️
You're very welcome Diontez, thank you!
did you do it?
@@salimaa9209 I think we'll never know
This totally makes sense. When I used to watch Pokemon I loved Team Rocket and hated Ash and co. I found Ash boring and bland where Team Rocket were funny and endearing in their endeavours.
Interesting comparison!
I've always loved villains more than heroes. XD
gLItcHyGeAR same
Sameee
@@demahensley8985 If you hate the main characters you should never watch a Show.
Interesting question. The best villain is one we can relate to (same as the hero). To use an anti-hero example, why is Rorschach so popular? He's violent, bigoted, and according to Silk Specter, smells bad. Yet we love him. Why? Because he has his code and will not yield one inch no matter what.
We can relate to Two Face and Harvey Dent's struggle with his anger. We can relate to Scarecrow's desire to inflict fear on those who inflicted it on us. And Magneto, a man who saw the Holocaust. Of course he's going to try anything to save his people at any cost. We understand what these things can drive people to do.
I find giving your villain a understandable and unique motivation. Now I admit this is rather hard but if you can give your villain a good motivation it is definitely worth it and makes them more believable. Trust me on this one
That's true, sure enough, a good motivation is great! We're talking about interest or likability more than believability in this vid, though.
Brookes Eggleston - Character Design Forge yeah I was just adding on to your points though
A jar of pickles
It’s very difficult to give the villain a good motivation because if it’s TOO good, then you’ll have your audience rooting for the villain and that’s not good
Despite this, one of my favorite heroes in recent time has been Superman. You know, usually the guy who's seen as too boring because he doesn't have a very complicated inner conflict, or glaring flaws, or anything like that.
With stories like Superman For All Seasons or Superman Smashes the Klan, I really just find him an endearing, down-to-earth role model. It's that story of a man with good intentions, trying to use his gifts to help people and feeling an endless duty TO use them as much as possible that I personally connect with.
Another thing I think many people are getting wrong, you don’t have to make the protagonist bland in order for everyone to feel for them. They can be different and still be sympathetic, they just have to be the voice of reason.
Idk I tend to like ‘villains’ because they have qualities I wish I had. Confidence. Dark appeal. Respect (even though they are hated they still get full attention when in a room haha). Outspoken. Memorable. A personality.
I feel like hero characters tend to be just ‘good people’.
Tony Stark is pretty confident and charming and he is a hero. Actually he is the best movie hero in recent years.
I don’t think all villains are more interesting and cooler than our heroes. Can happen but not always the case.
Congrats on 50k man. :)
I’m currently restructuring one of my stories so these kinds of videos are really helpful.
I wouldn't be surprised if Brookes gets to 1 Million subscribers one day
Some of my favorite UA-camrs started off slow [PBG, Nathan Sharp, etc] so it wouldn't be much of a surprise to me
Also, I'd just like to mention my appreciation for Mr. Eggleston's videos, they have been tremendously helpful to me [despite not watching all videos, I consider myself new here]
I would enjoy donating and getting criticism, but due to my young age, I cannot
Nonetheless, thank you, Mr. Eggleston, for making these videos for us all
I'll be honest, I'd likely wouldn't catch on to [at least] a third of some of the more obvious things in storytelling and character design [shape language, color theory, flawed characters, etc]
I really appreciate that Lucas, how kind of you to say all that!
Lucas\\\ OML I LOVE PBG!!! He's such a cinnamon roll (≧∀≦)
You're very welcome, Mr. Eggleston!
I aspire to one day even impress you with my stories, I'm even writing one now as a novice
Lucas\\\ "but due to my young age..." No better time to start practicing than the present!
Can you make a villain that believes what he's doing is right? One that believes he's being a hero? I've been trying to create my first villain and he's a big member of this worlds government. The hero of my story has an illness that would be dangerous to society normally and Mr.Government(that's what we'll call him for now) tries his upmost to get rid of the hero, even if he must kill him.
Everyone believes they're the hero. :)
Brookes Eggleston - Character Design Forge oh I suppose that makes since, thank you!!! 👏🏻👏🏻👌🏻❤️
Brookes Eggleston - Character Design Forge okay I hate to bother you but I have another question...so would it be a bad idea to make a villain who knew he was doing the wrong thing? One who knew he was evil and was okay with that?
SweetDream ゆめ No, it wouldn't be bad to make a villain that knows what he's doing is wrong. There's plenty people in real life who know they are bad people and are okay with it.
gnarth d'arkanen thank you! This really helps a lot!!!
Interesting color correction in the beginning there, aiding the sick look. Don’t think we didn’t notice. ;)
Okay so idk if this is a decent concept, feedback would be appreciated. I’ve always found villains way more compelling than heroes (when written well, mind you)-it’s just something I’ve always thought. So I was thinking, as a general outline, this:
The protagonists would be heroes and whatnot, with powers they were born with and good intentions; the antagonists would be their polar opposites. Since the story or whatever would be from the protagonists’ POV, therein lies the possibility of unreliable narration. Throughout the story or whatever, their powers would slowly twist them into having less and less morals; since the villains are their polar opposites they’d inversely become more and more moral. By the end, it’d be revealed that the protagonists are now the evil ones, and the villains would stop them.
I feel like it’d be really interesting to see a fall from grace like that, the protagonists constantly justifying themselves to the reader. It’d really defy the norm. Idk though, just a random idea I had. I would love to see thoughts on it, since I’m not much of a storyteller.
I actually think that's a very interesting idea, I'd love to see that written one day
That kinda sorta happens in the Watchmen I think
excellant! Though the character development is essential in making that really somthin
I think that's what devillainized (for the villain part only). I'm thinking it's like Hans from Frozen good to bad and Elsa from bad to good, unless Hans has no progression of being bad instead a twist villain. I would say Elsa is a good example, she started as a villain by how I intepret her actions, started off by ruining the party and running away, refuses to elaborate with Anna and hurt her, but in the end she saved Anna and the village, the progression isn't as simple as I describe it but that's a bad to good guy concept I could think of. Hans sucks
Still working and sharing work with your audience despite being seriously ill?? Thats amazing. Thank you for your hard work. And yes villains are usually more likable because they have flaws and flaws are relatable. Im pro villain more often than not myself! Excellent points you’ve brought out!
One thing that in my opinion makes villains (and any other character) interesting is their values. They might be willing to do nasty things to get to their goals but they have that one line that they will not cross. Of course values will develop and might change over time but that is a part of character arc and storytelling. Villains having a character arc is almost always interesting to see. If writer is not aware of their characters' values, it could lead to characters becoming plot devices rather than the driving force of the story. The channel The Closer Look did an interesting video on this topic through Marvel and DC universes. He also did a video on Spiderman 2 and talked about the sacrifice to be the hero.
I thinks it’s because sometimes we plan stuff, sometimes life simply screws up our plans making us be able to relate to the villains more!
I have an idea for a character design. A selfish prince who supposed to be the King since his father’s dead, but a warlord from an other country occupied his Kingdom. At first he vows for vengeance, but later as many people died the last of the Royal dynasty gives up on war & goes on a more spiritual journey. Turning from greedy aristocrat to a selfless hero with a sword that once granted titles of nobility to a tool of self defense & the protector of wayfarers.
A Villain to Hero Character Arc, I like that!
You nailed it. The only thing satisfying about the Game of Thrones ending was the conclusion of Theon Grejoy's moral journey.
This video is so cool! And not just because I was wondering why I preferred Kylo Ren over Rey. 😂 Seriously this gives me a ton to think about in my writing/drawing process.
I like the idea of the hero not actually being good but they are still considered to be the good guy, mostly by themselves.
THANK YOU!! I've suffered this problem for so long (great villain, terrible protags) and I've been wanting to see why for ages. Thanks for making this video!
1:05 - This is why I love Yuno Gasai and Kotonoha Katsura
Childhood was kinda like Yuno's and High School was trending towards Kotonoha
What are your thoughts on custom protagonist characters that you see in video games, ones that are made to put yourself in the shoes of the hero?
+A.J. Morrow I’ve been thinking about making a video on that! It definitely affects the design of those options and sliders, and the rest of the game.
Brookes Eggleston - Character Design Forge Those player character options get REALLY tricky to program. The Avatar you play as in a video game just doesn't work the same as a normal character in a normal story, in a way not even many video game devs yet understand; some interesting examples to look into, if you want to do a short study, are the unexpected player reactions to Lara Croft and Samus Aran during their first outings.
Truly, it's fascinating how vastly the simple addition of interactivity changes the rules of storytelling. What works and how it works just is not the same (hence why so many Cinema and lit buffs get all negative about the medium haha, it's not a matter of snobbiness it's just sheer confusion).
One thing I've heard lots of people say about villians (I forget where the exact quote is from) is, "They are who they are without apology" In that case, one way to make protagonists more interesting could be having them question who they are, and when they finally figure it out they could be just as enjoyable as the villian!
I dont know about story but I often like the villain because of their designs (visual and personality). Not like I think the main character is boring I just really like alot of the design tropes that are common to villains.
Thank you, I got a better understanding of a Hero/ Villains struggle for my stories. You are a pro.
Aw dang, I try to be! Thank you, glad it was helpful!
Brookes Eggleston - Character Design Forge I’ve watched a video about Romantic Subplots, do you have any tips on it too? I would love to hear your opinion.
brilliant video! it was really helpful :D but I would say that Kylo isn't the best example for a good villain but characters like Catra from the She ra reboot and Zuko from Avatar the Last Airbender are great.
This reminds me of a book I'm reading called "Immediate fiction" it's a must read for any story writter.
Because villains are our reality
Sweet Oswald sketch in the background. I've considered buying one the past few times I went to Disney, but I never caved in lol
Only 50k subscribers!!
You deserve so much more...
Congratulations on 50k!!! You deserve it, and I love your channel! It's extremely helpful, even though my story isn't near finished ahah..
Man, those first seconds aged pretty well.
so sorry you were sick man. figured something was up
My favourite type of villains are the ones that start off as being good, but then turn bad and oppose the hero
Saruman, for example
The metal masked assassin is my favorite “villain”. His backstory is actually pretty sad, he loses his brothers and got brainwashed alongside his group. He is a violent cannibal that I feel bad for. Sometimes, I root for the villains and not the good guys.
But yeah. I simp for him
Good thing I've subbed.
Two videos a week.
COOL. More forge too. Awesome!
Thank YOU for making this videos! I really like the way you explain and talk, seriously, this channel should have a lot more recognition. Almost forgot, congratulations with the 50k subscribers!! (sorry for my bad english) Loves from South America.
+Guadalupe Anechina thanks so much!
Grats on 50k Brookes! Hope your flu ends soon!
clicked this video for inspiration an it worked :) i want to write my own story but im having trouble with the hero and the villain but now i know what to do hopefully by the end of this month i should be writing my first novel thanks :)
Dude! 50k! Thats awesome. Hope the flu doesn't beat you up too much.
But I was hoping for a face reveal for 50k.
Thanks! Bumped to 100k 😉
Quick question (Assuming anyone answers) What if the villain is a robot that can't think for themselves and is just focused on following a mission? The T 1000 from Terminator 2 Judgement Day did this and he still became one of the greatest villains in cinima.
So thats a man vs environment situation, if the threat is purely external like that, lacking it’s own thoughts or feelings. Like a beast or hurricane.
@@CharacterDesignForge makes sense. I'm currently working on a story with a robot antagonist that comes from the future with a mission to infect other robots with a virus making them hostile towards humans in order to replace them with machines.
I honestly thought I hit the wrong video when I saw that unrecognizable Brookes in the beginning, lol. We both got the flu around the same time. Man, how relatable it was when you described being unable to do a thing and but agonize over the pain. And finally, a HUGE congratulations to 50K subscribers!!! What an inspiration!
Congrats on 50,000 Subscribers Brooke!
Thanks Jonathan!
Hey, I haven't been on here in a long time! Don't think I forgot you though! Good old CutGrass has a new channel. (I hope you remember me...)
That's awesome, great to hear from you!
In video games I loves NPCs since they don't do much but its nice to chat with them that doesn't involve their impending doom from a villain.
Another big problem between heroes and villains is that villains are usually a more active force in the story. This is way more interesting than a usually passive protagonist who reacts to the villain. The thing you can do about hero characters is having them have a motivation outside of the villain. Have the protagonist push the story forward as much as the villain.
Super interesting and insightful video! And lol I remembered Malekith’s name since Dark World is one of my favourites (not because Malekith, but indeed because Loki 😂👌🏻)
0:00 0:04 like daaaaaamn he legit looks waaay better
I love Bowser and Ganon, they are so amazing even if they lose in a lot of battles!!
My take on this.
Villians are more interresting because they are active and heros often reactive.
The villian always has agoal and something to strive toward and heros tend to fall into the pit of only trying to keep the status quo.
A change in perspective is needed to avoid this trap. Give both the villian and hero opposing goals. This is done well in Dragonball z the freeza arc. The heros and villians all want the dragonballs to gain their wish, bringing back their friends and immortality respectively.
The conflict between these parties is natural because only 1 of them can achieve their goal and they both need the dragonballs to achieve them. Both the villians and heros are active here.
Ps:
I am sorry to say this but I did not find Kylo Renn interresting. His motivations were all over the place changing to whatever the plot needed it to be instead of driving the plot.
Super helpful!!! Thank you!
I see a voltron figure in the back and I Kida want it
I think a way to make heroes interesting is to create an event in the story that trigger something interesting or unique like weakness or something
This really helps me a lot! I have a story, and I'm still debating who the villain is, and what their motive would be. I've gone back and forth with who it is but change my mind at the last minute. (I also struggle with the point of the story is... like a lot). But this has helped me decide who the villain is, and what their motive for being bad is.
I've decided that one of the main characters brother, who has been struggling with his inner demons for almost his entire life is going to be the main antagonist. He struggles with Bipolar disorder, so he could be fighting one minute and then be good the next minute. This causes a lot of internal conflict and guilt for him. (I'm sorry if I get anything wrong I haven't done much studying on Bipolar disorder yet.) Another reason he is bad, is almost his entire race has been wiped out due to the fact that they were a strong species, and they were quickly multiplying. The remaining survivors are mostly in hiding. His brother was taken away at a young age to spare their lives. since then they have been hiding in the middle of nowhere in fear. He learned to defend his family when he was younger since his sister was only a baby and had no parents. She was the light of his life, but when she grew older, she took the side of the resistance (they killed off his family). Which basically made him snap.
I'm still working on the plot holes, but if you have any suggestions please feel free to comment and tell me.
(my deviantart: winterschild937.deviantart.com)
I've had an idea on the back burner for a while and i want to screw around by making the villain the protagonist (some morally grey bull but i think it would be fun)
1:23 to 1:51
Perfectly described that Marvel Knights: Black Panther cartoon. I swear to God, I actually wanted to see Klaw win in that one and I was dissapointed when he didn't.
5:05 basically how Re: Zero was written
this video is GOLD ❤️❤️❤️🔥🔥🔥
He needs more subscribers
People like confident and cool people even if they are bad people. This doesn't happen only with fictional characters but with real people too. That's why so many dictators and mass murderers had and still have so many followers.
The difference is that In real life, we usually feel the consequence of people's bad actions but not in the fictional world.
It seem,be a villain is interesting because,you can heartless , doing anything as you like,like killing people or some one and you can invite your enemies from your enemies to became as your allies, ,that why became villain is interesting 😊
DECEPTICONS FOREVER!!!
Starscream especially!
Brookes Eggleston - Character Design Forge for me it's soundwave!
Four minutes in I get a spoiler for the video I was about to watch. It was this or likeable characters and I chose this to watch first because it was shorter, not 26 minutes. XD Should've gone with my first choice, LOL
This is kind of late, but this is part of the reason why Magneto and Professor X are so compelling. They're both essentially aiming for the same thing, but they both have different ways of going about it and come to odds. It's not "reacting and acting", they're both proactive and opposing one another because one's methodology clashes with the other's. X-Men was a boon between the 1970s and late 1990s.
One of the reasons I also think the good guys are bland, is because they start off good and stay stagnant for most of the story. This is why I think characters with more development are liked a lot more.
Static characters aren't always bad in themselves though. That depends on the writer
That's probably because of the "Good is Boring" cliche, used to distinguish the conventionally moral White Male Lead hero from a gay-coded, foreign, rich and neurodiverse villain. If you define "good" just as "saves lives," rather than white hats, drinking only milk and saving cats from trees, and vary the hero's ethnic identity, you can make more interesting heroes. Have them break a date with their poly family to save the world from an alien invasion, lol!
I mean not all good guys are the same and there was atcually times where I like the protagonists more then the antagonists themselves, so yea protagonist's have a lot potential to be better then people think.
So helpful!
First villain who I like it was Skeletor from He Man. The old version. And even that he was evil, that he want rule all kingdom and he looks scary. It's doesn't matter. When I'm saw him I always smiling even when he laugh. I don't say He Man itself was boring. No. But For some reason I give sympathy to Skeletor.
Here's one noone knows about.
Jirall from The Last Story. Not a lot of people know about him but he is one of the best bad guys I've ever seen.
Out of curiosity, what would you do if all your characters could be the villain of another story, and the story has no true villain?
Very helpful. I'm still confused where my villain stands on the spectrum though. I guess I have more reworking to do. :3
i like Doofenshmirtz. he's a great villain that has personal struggles and a great backstory.
I just noticed that I made my character be both selfless and selfish at the same time. Because it is just so obsessed with following the law and it’s ethics that it ends up putting everything and everyone including itself as a second priority.
So you could say that it is Selfless because it is willing to sacrifice itself for the greater good, but it is selfish because it is able to sacrifice everything else for following it’s ethics and mindset blindly.
I think that a character that isn't 100% in both directions makes for an interesting conflict, so it sounds like you're on the right track
Isn't that just 'Shirou Emiya' from 'Fate/Stay Night'?
Explains how my deuteragonist/Villainous character wins everyone who is introduced to her over, its usual because shes got alot of flaws, anger and also a pretty good design
I always liked villains who in any other context would be considered the good guy of the story. I don’t see it too often and I think that’s a shame. Like Captain America will do what he feels is right even when everyone else says it’s a bad idea or a wrong choice because he’s the Paragon of Good, but what if that impulsive almost selfish desire for good turns out to be the wrong choice in some instance? He suddenly becomes the bad guy, he’s not a fallen hero, he isn’t some anti-hero he’s an impulsive do gooder with poor judgment, in a context like this framing this guy as your antagonist and your protagonist trying to stop him suddenly makes a compelling story and also is very natural for this Dark Paragon to comes to blows with your protagonist, because you can’t stop him from doing what he feels is right.
Villains are often conflicted characters, even in the older shows and stories, while the good guys are the ones keeping their integrity no matter what. With a very traditional good guy - there is not much you can do - there is room for growth, some maturing, but the core ideas and values will usually remain the same.
In classic shows from 80s and 90s - it is actually the villain who struggles most of the time. Note the formula - it is the villain who invents the plot and that plot gets completely demolished by a good guy - even if the good guy has some sort of a long terms goal, it still feels like a passive endeavour in comparison.
Another thing - in order to be the force of good, the protagonists have to be the most broad - good in the most generic ways possible. It is ambiguous, left without focus. And they can't really delve into intricacies - because that would potentially delve into various grey areas and could give our Saturday Morning villain some credit.
Villains also tend to be much more charismatic - creators often have more... freedom with them, while with good guys, they often appear... bland. There is again, lack of contrast and proper emotion in them.
And finally there is the question of the design. Villains get all the cool looking stuff and it is a large part of the appeal. Cool robes, badass looking armour, you name it.
Star Wars is a good example - Jedi tend to be your generic plain robe wearing guys. Sith? Just look at Darth Vader. Seriously. But even when you look at Palpatine - a generic robed guy, right? Nope, the way the robe looks on him, covering his face, the ominous presence despite the posture of a frail old man - it all emanates with sense of mystery and dread - it shows that there is always more to know about this character.
More traditional good guys have nothing to hide - all in plain sight.
And the worst thing? It never changes - even in terms of the most rudimentary shows, villains still tend to have those qualities that good guys simply don't. And complexity often emphasises it.
Batman has shades of gray that’s why I like him so much. He’s gothic, a tragic character with flaws, plus he’s literally a HUMAN BEING who’s had trauma in his life.
could we get a tour of your studio and where you film? im pretty new to your channel, and it has alot of great content!
I'd love to do that soon! I show my studio a bit more when I stream on Twitch on Monday afternoons, but I should do something for UA-cam as well!
As a self proclaimed Villain lover, allow me to express my fondness for villains. Ever since I heard stories I've always been sympathetic towards villains. Perhaps because even when the story that was presented to me was as basic and shallow as something like "The Three Little Pigs". I would see how the villain (the Wolf) struggles and tries so hard to get what they want. Whereas many heros are given/bestowed with gifts that make them powerful. I couldn't help but root for the villains so often in my childhood even when I knew that if the good guys lost it would be very terrible and sad, but because I saw ingenuity, determination to never give up, the guile and courage to keep preserving despite often being alone in the villain I was more often eager to see them succeed than the heros. These traits are if nothing else necessarily for takling life and even though I knew the villain was wrong in their ambitions I wanted to believe they still deserved some kind of reward for their endless gumption. And it's funny because you'd think that these traits would be given to the heros but nope. And I think this is where many protagonists can fail at being compelling when the writers don't let the audience feel and see them struggle painfully to achieve their goals. Anyone who works hard to get what they want is automatically much more likable and memorable. The best example of this kind of villain is of course Dr. Doofenshmirtz. He can be slighted over the most petty thing and I'd still want his plans to succeed because he works so darn hard to make them happen xD his dedication is something admirable.
Then in adolescence I discovered a new kid of villain. My favorite villain in fact: the embodiment of pure id.
Forgive me for using Fuerdian terms but I think there's no other way to put it. A villain who is purely self serving and I love with their own villainy is the most fun. Now this type of villain tends to not be very complex and for some that is a draw back. But for me, it's not a problem because for me the best villains in this category provide for an incredible catharsis. This completely selfish villain is a villain because of their complete disregard for the rules. Societal conventions, morality, none of it matters to them, they do whatever they want because they just feel like it. And having that kind of power is intoxicating. In a way these villains are all about being free, perusing their desires with no regard for anyone else is as terrifying as it can be entertaining. My best example is of Course The Joker. But not every villain in this category has to be unhinged(although admittedly I do love that too), but simply they are uncompromising in their values like Shego from Kim Possible, she just loves evil and she ain't gonna give it up. This kind of villain stands at the opposite end of heros like Peter Parker who constantly have to struggle with their superego and keeping a balance between their wants and needs of the "greater good". That's why villains that are just joyful homicidal killers are so loveable to me because through them I can take a break from the heavy burden that is always keeping yourself in check. Doing the right thing isn't easy, almost never is. Heros like Peter are so great because they show that struggle. But heros that stand in stark contrast are so much fun to see them do absolutely horrible things. And I feel like people have forgotten this. Course that's not to say that a villain that is dominated by their super ego isn't interesting either tho. On the contrary they can be vastly complex and relatable as well but of course they aren't free like the aforementioned. I guess I'm just a sucker for chaotic evil because deep down we'd all love that power trip to do whatever we want.
Nowadays complex villains are all the rage, but I often see them excited if not very poorly then just not good enough that they don't make an impression. A complex villain requires a lot of time and thought and the truth is depending on your story it would be better for your story to put this time in making your protagonists complex. I love a complex villain too don't get me wrong but not every story needs one. Sometimes you just need to give the hint of the villain being more complex than they seem but don't make a villain complex for the sake of being complex if the heros can stand toe to toe with them.
And that's just a few reasons why I love villains.
I think villains are more interesting than protagonists because "wanting to do the right thing" is a natural trait that most people understand.
Its much more interesting to find out why someone would want to do the opposite, which doesn't usually come naturally.
I think that Command & Conquer has one of the best villains ever, and I don't even have the game!
IN THE NAME OF KANE!
2 words: handsome jack
I think villians are so interesting because 1. As you mentioned, their flaws and 2. Because they're usually smart
For example our hero is giving us some tips on how to improve our projects but he has to deal with flu
Paarthurnax sums it up best by asking what is better, to be born good, or to over come one's evil nature through great effort?
It might be because villains are oftentimes so different from the everyday people we see on the road that we just can't help but be fascinated. Meanwhile, when crafting the heros, writers somehow tend to create the most generic human beings you could ever imagine.
Protagonists don't need to be generic to be relatable imao
The main villain in my story is definitely one of the most interesting characters in it. Her backstory is the most developed so far and I really sympathize with all that she's been through. I would love her a lot if her goal in the story wasn't to commit mass genocide... then again if she wasn't trying to do that there'd be no story, so I suppose it's not all bad.
But how does one make an interesting and great villain that you don’t want people to want to care about or feel like they can be redeemed? I get that villains are made but I don’t want people to like or root for my villain, but I also don’t want him to be poorly written or unbelievable
Sick self = Paul Rudd
I think one of the few cases where the protagonist and antagonist are equally matched in being liked is Death Note. Having a villain protagonist and a… ambiguously “heroic” antagonist with understandable goals, similarities in their methodology, and just interesting characterization made them both a case where the hero and villain garnered near equal favorability.
Yeah, but what happens when your hero *IS* the villain? I’m trying to avoid just making my main cast as outright villain protagonists-that’d be taking the easy way out-but instead I’m trying to find a way for them to be ruthless (but not heartless), brutal (but not barbaric), and violent (but not psychotic). It’s always been extremely hard for me to find that perfect balance of seeing bad guys’ desperate pleas for mercy falling on the MC’s deaf ears and yet still be a loving, compassionate family. Not strictly “evil” but more like the darker side of Rebel Neutral.
On an unrelated note, I’ve been trying to find an excuse to work in a few Chaotic Evil non-Villains; one of my MC’s fits the bill for Lawful Evil for her self-centered personality and how much fun she has just toying with and manipulating her prey, but she’s more-or-less a “good guy who refuses to admit they’re good” (if that makes any sense).
Has there been any story plots where the hero character goes after a villain but in the end it was the hero who was the villain and vice versa the whole time?
I don't know if this sounds interesting or confusing...
The first thing that comes to mind is the video game spec ops: the line, though the supposed villain didn’t turn out to be good either.
You talk about the trend where villains act and heroes react as a reason villains are more interesting. You indicate that it’s less significant, but I am curious of your thoughts on the dynamic being flipped and the hero acts and the villain hinders.
It's interesting trying to see their point of view, what they're thinking and their motivations, and also, many artists make their villains like, ultra hot, and having the best Soundtrack themes................
Why doesn’t Peter Parker abandon his social life in order to full fill his hero career commitments? He is clearly doesn’t have great multitasking skills.