DIY Flight Simulator Joystick
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- Опубліковано 21 жов 2020
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If you want to build this flight simulator setup, you can find the parts list, code and 3D printer STL files here: • Flight Simulator Joyst...
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Square magnet with the hall effect sensor was a great idea. Gonna have to steal that one for a future project
In the Netherlands, we have a saying: Better well copied than badly invented!
Akaki Kuumeri did it first
ua-cam.com/video/na3NeZJYK3g/v-deo.html
*Ya Know,* old, broken, second-hand and *CHEAP* joysticks have tonnes of those things...
Nithin EXACTLY
A happy lovely project!
I was honestly slightly disappointed you didn't measure your cats latency at 8:25!!!
Exactly what I was thinking
@Tom Stanton Please do this. We need this.
*Cat-ency
@@amoliski Felinatency*
08:00 - Cat is like 'Ewww this doesn't smell nice... Will have to sort that out, immediately!' Rubs feline stink all over..... MISSION COMPLETE!
Thank you. This is by far the best explanation of a Hall Effect Sensor. Couldn't find this anywhere else.
I thought it was a "holophec sensor", too much star trek xD
@@-na-nomad6247 xaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxa
What are you talking about?
Nothing has been explained about how it actually works.
That was not what the video was about.
5:02 wiring here is just a work of art tbh
"...as Microsoft Flight Simulator doesn't currently support missiles."
I found this absolutely hilarious
.
3:25 good joke !!
hahaha, me to. But if you want misales i can recommend DCS :)
I had to pause the video because of laughter 😂
same
just wait until the F-14 Comes out
This will be amazing when used with an fpv rc plane setup
The guys at Flite Test have been working on that exact thing
Or a really stupid way to control a drone... That sounds like a challenge.
A helicopter, however, sounds like a great idea.
@@Guffy1990 yeah, till you get whooped by some dude laying in a sim setup irl
Except you can have this much easier and 110ms latency would be catastrophic as normal rc links have 5 to 10ms latency
@@peterzingler6221 you’re comparing the first harley ever made to a ducati. one is rudementary while the other has been refined to the limit. not a fair point.
Absolutely brilliant, the world needs MORE people like you that are not only educated but also creative and able to produce ACTUAL worthwhile “stuff”.
I will almost definitely be building those rudder pedals in the near future. The high quality pre build alternatives are so expensive I could never justify the price, and these look surprisingly elegant.
You're so good at this engineering that you're starting to make this seem too easy. (It would have taken me decades to think of using two magnets.)
Well, you don't know how long time it took from him to realise
@@Henrix1998 I highly doubt it took him decades. Also, not sure why you're trying to tear down his complement, it wasn't even directed at you.
@@massiveworldthreat engineering is always an iterative process and videos like this mask it too easily
@@Henrix1998 these videos are for entertainment, not a realistic depiction of the engineering process.
@@massiveworldthreat ah yes, because saying someone took the time to think about something critically and engineer and answer is tearing down a compliment
Very nice. I'm a simulator-focused flight test engineer with 30 years of handling qualities / flying qualities test experience, so this is my bread-and-butter, and it's so good to see what you're doing here. You might want to consider adding two things: some mass to the stick, and some friction or damping to each axis (pitch/roll/rudder). The mass will make it generally feel more like moving around the mechanical parts in a real airplane - the stick itself has mass, but all the moving parts do too. Every real aircraft has some damping in its control system (some natural, and some artificial). While too much damping is usually bad, some is definitely good. You can get relatively inexpensive adjustable fluid/hydraulic dampers (sometimes sold as adjustable shock absorbers). I think you'll find it feels far more realistic with some damping, and it will be less prone to pilot-induced oscillations and excessive "twitchiness". In my experience, the larger the airplane the higher the damping, partly because larger planes have longer runs of control system linkages and cables, thus more parts to add friction. A little Pitts Special will have nearly zero damping, but a 747 has fairly high damping. It was easy to see you overcontrolling the biplane - that would pretty much go away with a damped mass-added stick.
Zip tying some sort of ruber tubing around the springs would probably work. I've seen this used as a washing machine damper spring fix. Also adding sealed bearings would provide some resistance.
adding some car boot cylinders in parallel to the springs might work.
you can add dampers to both the anti-torque pedals, and the cyclic. I used a washing machine shock absorber on the collective
Just to add to this, I am a real world pilot with experience in the Pitts S2B and in fact most of the more common single engine light aircraft types. The typical market bought joysticks therefore have always never satisfied me when flying in sims. The biggest disconnect in my opinion is the lack of 'feel'. Sitting on the grass in a real airplane the controls are light in the hand.. you can feel the surfaces as they move, for example pulling back on the control column in a cessna type you will feel the weight of the elevator moving behind you. Now take-off.. the faster the airspeed the more air that opposes control movements, controls feel tighter and you don't need a lot of movement for example to bank or roll. At very low airspeed, controls become 'mushy' so you need exaggerated control inputs to achieve the same thing.
It would be great if there was a way to simulate this on a DIY joystick setup, reading airspeed from MSFS is relatively easy thanks to simconnect and/or FSUIPC. The problem is the mechanics.. hydraulics seem the superior approach, but doing that at home is likely unsafe to the point of dangerous. Certainly it's expensive. I am not an engineer, but anyone have any thoughts on how this could be done for a home hobby on a budget?
@@wingandaprayer883 I've also thought about this and I would like to make this but with variable control damping dependent on airspeed. As far as the mechanics to achieve this, some simple ideas I've thought of are to have the tension in the restoring springs be adjustable with a linear actuator, cam, or screw system.
This video is so perfect in so many ways. Just straight to project
I especially like the simple and elegant ways you got the maximum resolution out of both hall effect sensors just with your clever placement of magnets.
For the full light-aircraft stick-and-rudder effect, it would be cool to add force feedback.
I would enjoy to see this. Awhile back o was looking into making my own with an Arduino Leonardo/ATmega32u4 and drivers. Not easy for those who are new to USB programing.
I don't know about the communication to the computer part of it, but it'd be pretty straightforward to modify the design for some servo mounts.
The problem comes when you realize how expensive really big servos are.
Yeah, there's a reason no-one's tried a consumer FF stick since Microsoft's effort. One of those projects that seems like it would be quite tractable, but the details are super tough.
@@bar04z doesn't help that immersion corp (basically a patent troll for all things haptics. Yes, the same company that sued apple for the taptic engine) holds a patent on FFB sticks for the better part of the decade. They still holds some related patents which could potentially be used for trolling.
I also think the same thing, but if the fs doesn’t give you any data for the feedback, it’ll be less immersive. It’s still cool tho
8:26 Man that cat is fast. Milliseconds from opening up the eyes to full track of the red ball.
Thanks you for this video! I've been researching on this topic to make my own flight simulator controller for Elite Dangerous, and now with all things clarified, I can proceed to making it. Thnak you, you helped me A LOT.
The beauty of building your own joystick is that it's done to your specifications and handling properties too. Great video mate
Tom, can we get a cat latency measurement please? -> 8:18
That is one beautiful cat.
i had the same idea :D
@@lacika_dnb I don't know you, but great minds think alike.
Cat was in low power mode
cat being like... Guess who is going to awake with me on his face?
Dang it Tom, now I have to redesign my HOTAS! Your use of the Hall effect sensors is great! My original design used diametrically magnetized, cylindrical magnets fixed at the exact centre of the gimble shaft, but issues of precise alignment and rotational distance caused issues with resolution and precision, your approach is much better!
I think the only change I would make would be to replace the 4 corner springs with a single central spring at the bottom of the gimble, maybe with a tension adjustment.
soooo.. you're the actual man behind the HOTAS, or are you just joking around??
@@SustainaBIT I've made my own version of a HOTAS on my channel by modernizing a classic game port joystick, my original experiment with Hall effect sensors didn't work nearly as well as Tom's implementation here and was done before I started doing videos.
@@Teklectic I see, that's a good job!,, will check that out for sure, wish you best of luck with your future creations :)
I love the use of magnet and hall effect sensors. I never would have thought of the use of magnet combinations to achieve anything other than 180 degree resolution. Thank you!
That was the most gorgeous slow-mo shot I've seen of a cat ever. So many have tried to do slow-mo stuff with cats before but I've never found them captivating, like they tried too hard.
You are one of the only people I know who actually know how to properly design a part for additive manufacturing. I used to work in an AM shop, and we'd get orders from people like Mercedes, general atomics, with parts that when printed were insanely weak and oddly designed for their end-use. I respect that in you.
Btw. the button on the top of the "control sticks" in the aircrafts are connected to the radio. It's the talk button.
Missles are more fun tho.....
I don't want to sound like a grammar nazi but it's missiles- again sorry sir/mam/they
Many thanks for sharing, that was absolutely brilliant, per usual!
This gives me a good idea how to digitize any physical movement without a complex gear on a potentiometer in upcoming projects ... it is so simple and yet such a great solution that will run much more reliable than any potentiometer.
I've been thinking about making a joystick for a long time now, you can't even begin to imagine how much you've made my day!
I’ve been getting the Kiwi kits for my granddaughters. They love them, and I’ve been very impressed with the amount of thought that has gone into the design of each kit. I recommend.
I never thought of using two magnets for one sensor, amazing idea!
My old saitek x52 joystick comes from the factory with the two magnet setup
Awesome work. I've gotten stuck trying to build my own, and this is really encouraging to see :)
Love the new animations Tom! They really help visualise your concepts!
The little animations helped me a lot with understanding, thank you.
That is so true! :)
Awesome project! The production value of your videos has improved so much since you first started this channel. Everytime I see Tom uploaded a video, I get excited. These never get added to "Watch Later." They always go to "WATCH RIGHT NOW!!!"
PRIORITY ONE VIDEO HAS LANDED
The use of Hall effect was a great idea, gratz. When you bought the problem up, my first thought was to put a big cog on the pivot and a small cog on the potentiometer, increasing the angle of turn on the latter. Your solution is more elegant and will last longer.
8:19 The slow-mo shot I've seen in a long time just watch the cats reaction i love it
Mr beast: giving away 2 houses!!!
Tom: I cannot give myself the luxury of buying 15 euros of sensors for my project.
this comment makes me depressed.
Tom made it as cheap as possible for us not for him
Tom is a hell of a lot more interesting though.
The whole project would cost way more and the way he used the hall effect sensor and square magnets was extremely clever
@@linecraftman3907 can even cut the cost down more by using wood instead of t-slot extrusion. Less adjustability, but once set up, you likely would not need to adjust it anyway.
Those animations were mint. When it came on, I nodded in appreciation and thought, dayaamn Tom, getting slick.
Really nice job on that joystick! I like the magnetic approach, very smooth.
Great video. I will keep that 'cheap' hall effect idea in mind for my next project. I built a set of rudder pedals using potentiometers for the YAW, left, and right wheel brakes. To over come the problem of the resolution I made geared linkages for the pots. The pots typically have slightly more than 270 deg rotation and the yaw linear travel of the pedals is 9 inches in both direction resulting 45 degrees rotation. So using a 6:1 gear ratio I get the full travel of the pot and increased resolution. Flies in DCS, and X-Plane without any control issues and tracks VERY smoothly as well. Gears are 3-D printed as well.
Working on a 'Huey' cyclic and will try your hall effect idea! Very nice.
I must add that your design is a lot cleaner than mine.
Yoooo, i was legit planning on getting a 3d printer for months now, and my first project idea was to do exactly this, to play flight sim
My one's in the mail! Woo! (albeit they've lost the parcel and it was meant to be here 3 days ago...)
I plan on making the one that adds some things to a regular XBox or PS4 controller, I have both at hand so the hardware is already there, just to get a joystick and throttle! Obviously not as good as this setup... But still a great place to start! :D
@@Guffy1990 your printer is most likely in 1000 pieces by now, even if it came as a diy kit
@@Guffy1990 oh man thats awesome, the order, not the lost parcel, but hey, good thing take time :p
Tbh, my plan was to do a mechanism that you can add a gamepad to and just use the thumb sticks for the stick, in stead of having the entire thing, including the sensors custom made too, but now that i see that it's even more accurate and responsive, I'll rethink my ideas.
Which printer did you opt for btw?
@@boflator I went for the Creality Ender 3 V2! I didn't have a lot of money to spare, and with personal upgrades an option, I saw it as a good starting ground that I can tinker with at a letter point if I want/need to. I didn't care for a printer I could take out the box and it just work, I like building things, tinkering with them, upgrading and so on. So at the price point, I think it will be excellent. Obviously I want to print things too, and that's sort of the point, but as my first printer, I'd like to learn as much as I can, what works, what doesn't, what breaks it and what I can improve.
And, fun fact, it got dispatched not long after I sent that message! It didn't come just a few hours after I sent a fairly strongly worded email calling them out on things I knew vs what they didn't know I knew. It should be here today!
I'll update here in a few moments with the thingiverse link to the joypad thing that I plan on printing :)
www.thingiverse.com/thing:4612448
@@Guffy1990 ay yeah, i was eventing creality printers too. They seem to be a very solid starting point for getting into 3d printing. They are reasonably priced and their designs are transparent and easy to understand.
And yeah same, i wouldn't buy some hyper expensive "plug and play" type of printer worth several k.
Like it's probably convenient, but it's also kinda like buying a ferrari as your first car, I'd probably break it in days lol.
Oh snap thats a very neat design, i love it! Might get use some concepts in my future design too. You got me all hyped now again :D
I just gotta wait for us to move to a new place in a few months, cos where I'm currently, there's really no space to set up a work area D:
But in the meantime I'm writing down ideas, so when i eventually do get it, that bad boy will already have a queue waiting for it
Any tips on the printed mounts for the slotted aluminum? What kind of plastic and fill are you using?
Since they aren’t load bearing, I’d say probably just any PLA
As for the aluminium extrusion, you can find them just about anywhere online.
@@felixmorrison416 People really undestimate load bearing PLA parts.
If you design the project around them, print them so that you're not stressing layer-adhesion, PLA can be extremely durable.
@@TMHedgehog I agree. Relatively small PLA parts can support over 100kg of weight if printed right.
i'm actually finishing the build of your joystick. Many thanks for sharing ! I really love the design and the Hall effect sensor solution is REALLY a great idea :)
I used those tiny hall effect sensors to create a brushless motor I designed for a science fair project! It's really cool to see them being applied for different things.
Your KiwiCo advert is brilliant! It made me laugh, definitely memorable!
I'd love to know what's the latency of your cat at the moment the ball hits the cups because that was really fast.
I wonder if the cat's latency can be improved. Maybe a cat firmware update?
@@PunakiviAddikti firmware updates can only do so much. I think an upgrade from cat5 cables to cat6 would help with the higher bandwidth, there may be other hardware upgrades that would work just as well
@@Hoolahups Probably a good idea. Maybe even a new cat motherboard or CPU (cat processor unit).
Maybe a new RAM (Random activity maker) would help too!
@@PunakiviAddikti After 10 million years of evolution, you really think a cats firmware can be improved? [steps barefoot in cold hairball puke from my cat] Well then, ok, maybe a thing or two. :-)
Dude, you’re like, my favorite UA-camr of all time. I want to be an engineer when I grow up, and your videos are so inspirational.
That is the cutest TQS I've ever seen, well done!
Will definitely learn from your build, thank you!
If you made it so the rudder pedals didn't auto-center and maybe used friction to keep them where you set them it'd be perfect for helis now they've added them
I've been watching your brother Tim showcase it on streams! Pretty nice set up considering that you can replace the costy aluminum extrusions and 3d printed parts with anything you know how to work with!
That was my thought, I didn't realize how expensive extrusion is until I looked into it for a frame, I would bet the majority of the cost is in that. Jank PVC pipe anyone? 😅
What? Two brothers, and their names are Tom and Tim. Guess their parents either stuck with what's good or imagination is not their thing, lol.
This is brilliant. The classic joystick just has such a different feel from the "central stick" control of any modern light airplane - the joystick, on the table, is just awkward to use. I could easily do without the throttle (any independent one or Cessna-like one would do), but the combination of stick + rudder in a single element is just awesome. Hopefully someone gets the message and starts selling those, for those of us who don't have the time/resources to fabricate it!
IR barrier sensors from old Ball mouses are Great for this too. Lots of low cost Steering wheels use that to get precision and 920° measurement range. Love your videos, All the physics involved in our hobbys and how you explain them its just awesome and absorbing
Great vid as usual. Just a little tip to use rubber sealed bearings on your next build. They'll keep all the dust and cat fur out ;). When you order them they will have 2RS at the end.
Sealed bearings would also provide some damping effect. I image there are some low speed bearings that would really damp.
Great video Tom, now I need to put one of these together for some Elite: Dangerous
Just got into ED a few days ago and I had to look this vid back up because this would be perfect
I love it.. great work Tom. The best thing is you have the controlls exactly like a real plane. You will flight better. I have a similar design but the springs instead of stretching are positioned in such a way that they are pressed. That makes the stick try to get in the middle more easily and it is not so soft, you have to do a little force. Excellent work Tom. Cheers
PD: next step, buy a car seat and place it to be more comfortable
Great video Tom , really liked the way you problem solved getting full resolution form the hall effect over 12 degrees or rotation.
"I want something a bit more.." *plays with broom*
You need to diy a headtracker for it so you can look around!
free-track.net
software is free, building it is very easy, just find propper web cam (without IR filter)
For eight years it has been a dream of mine to replicate a cockpit from Star Citizen for myself, but I have neither any experience in engineering nor in electronics.
However as a small project I think I can start by making a switch panel like you did for the thrust control.
Thank you for the great video!
I love these graphics! These videos in general are awesome! Keep going, and I hope you reach more than 1 million subscribers!
I really really like the way you used the hall effect sensor
I've been wanting to make something similar, but I struggle with thinking up mechanical design, so I was stuck trying to figure out how to use an encoder or pot for it
thank you
(i couldn't think how to gear it down or something without loads of backlash)
@@runforitman Maybe with a planetary gearbox? I was also thinking about building something like that.
@@runforitman I've been trying to design a home-made joystick for a while (though a more conventional desktop design). I had planned on using 3D-printed herringbone gears to gear down a potentiometer -- I think they should move more smoothly than traditional gears, but there will still be some backlash.
Fantastic video as usual Tom. Love seeing what projects you come up with, you really inspire me to do builds of my own :) the Square magnet hall effect assembly is pretty smart, did you come up with that on your own?
I've been interested in building my own cockpit for these sims, this helped me immensely. Thank you!
The spring system for the pedals is ingenious. If the tension of the spring is of the same pedal it's attached to, it might not fully return to neutral, but in this setting, the opposite pedal brings the other back. I'll try that.
Ah finally a use for all the springs i collected in a drawer!😜
1:38 you could have picked a potentiometer with lower resistance rating so you can get more deflections
The voltage range will still be the same.
Or used a gear/timing belt system.
Then again, halleffect sensors are underused in DIY projects.
Or use an OPAmp as a non inverting amplifier to add a gain. Those integrated circuit are cheap.
Wow, just love watching people being so skilled and creative. Great build
You're awesome! I probably will never build this, but it was way more sophisticated than what I expected to see. (first time seeing one of your videos) Color me impressed.
Love the idea, just wish my abilities could keep up with my aspirations. Lol.
That's a pretty sweet little rig. Next step: Force Feedback!
MSFS2020 dosent support Force Feedback yet. At least my old MS force feedback joystick wasnt outputting any force
@@tswdev The biggest problem here is actually adding the FFB. Could be used by some other tittle, MFS is not the only thing you can fly with a joystick.
@@getsideways7257 DCS had some modules that had FFB, the default free Su-25 did, you can try that
@@tswdev I have all of their modules. My point was that adding FFB to the stick is the trickiest part.
Edit: "some modules"? So that's I guess why my G27 didn't work with Combined Arms...
Thank you so much for publishing your designs. I built one with my son and it works perfectly with FlightGear on Linux and Windows. I was able to add some more push switches and potentiometers for mixture and elevator trim and these work really well with a bit of extra code for the microcontroller.. The whole design is really easily modified and I added 3d-printed cable clips and inserts to hide away some of the spaghetti. I did break a rudder pivot, but that was solved by printing with thicker walls than the default Cura offered on fine mode. I struggled to find springs for a sensible price. The hall-effect sensors work really well, so perhaps I'll give this some thought in my future work. Now I just need to learn to fly better, but the joystick certainly makes the experience much more satisfactory.
This makes me appreciate my peripherals so much more, when even a DIY solution cost hundreds. love diy, but I love the CNC or extruded metal, plethora of buttons & dials, and complicated electonics & sensors, that all add to the immersion
It’s about time! 😁
Nice. Now build an actual plane around it
Awesome video Tom. Like the other folks are saying, the Hall Effect sensor implementation explanation was super. Didn't understand it until now.
Those animations are really good! In general, your video quality has noticably increased ever since i've been watching you
2:50 "then using an Arduino joystick library and few lines of coke..." 😂
Bruh, He said code. Listen carefully bruh
Bit i want somethin a bit more:
*wildly mixes some cereal*
I took up your Kiwi Co offer a few videos back, we're 2 boxes in and my daughter loves it. We paid extra to get a STEM book in in each month as well which have been fantastic bed time reading, my daughter asked for more of both of the series that the books came from so we're going to end up with a back log. Love your projects, really wish I had more engineering knowhow. I've picked up coding a few times but can never apply it to something fast enough to retain the knowledge.
it looks amazing. that skills, dedication, efford... Man...u ROCK!
"I'd buy that for $100."
"The total cost is $275"
Aight, xbox gamepad it is...
The extruded aluminum is probably the majority of the cost. So if you could find an alternative way then it would save you some money.
I have controller with pots and would like to. Change to hall sensors linear 3144 ,what are the magnet dimensions ,I did not see a resistor from + to output line 10 k can you help using BU 03836 12 bit board they say I can use sensor on their board
@@TheQuark6789 you could try and 3d print the entire frame probably. It would be lightweight, obviously not so sturdy, and slow to print. But it could work. Or, better idea, use wood and 3d print some sliders in order to make easier the adjustments
@@TheQuark6789 It shouldn't be a problem splitting it into Pieces, with some kind of hole to fit a screw or something to block the pieces in place
7:32 who else thought the sponsership was going to be MS Flight Simulator 2020?
This was probably one of the coolest videos I've ever watched, and I've learned more about making stuff in this one vid than i did in all of my college years
Those tracks you use to mount things onto, those are wonderful
0:34 Dude I thought this was family friendly.....
Me too
1 minute of silence, for those watch this video without the YT recommendations ...
Great video! I really liked the 3D animations of how everything worked!
Tom, you're a Great Engineer, keep the good work!
Yaaaayy
how do people already have something to say the video is like 10 seconds ago how much have you alreay watched?
I have been looking for the whole package for flight sim use. This might be it! Thanks for sharing the project
If I do remember my flight class correctly, brakes are pushing both rudder pedals at the same time. Putting the rudder assembly on a sliding part and belt connect to a potentiometer to read the amount of brakes applied would be an easy improvement I think.
What's the latency of your cat?
What is it though?
maybe 32ms?
Video: released like two minutes ago
People in comment section: NiCe ViDeO
I had been recently wondering if this was possible, or if someone had tried it yet. I'm just a little surprised at the cost. Thanks for the video.
This is the most elegant DIY hotas solution I"ve seen to date. Really nice design Tom.
I am a indian ❤️
Hi Rahul! Nice to meet you! 🍄
@@davidbergmann8948 thanks
I am a Indian too ❤️ we are special
@@its_arvinsingh :D :D
Nice job! One issue that is sorely problematic with gaming joysticks in MSFS is trim. In a real plane, trim can be set to cancel out the pitch input at any reasonable angle, and you can feel that as the pressure on the stick goes to zero. This holds the aircraft in a climbing or descending attitude (or level of course). The joystick's effective 'centre' position is offset by the trim. With a gaming joystick, there is no feel at all with trim, and worse, it works to make the standard centre position the trimmed position, which is unrealistic. It would be great if a flight joystick could physically simulate trim, perhaps by moving the spring fixed locations forward and backward using a motor. (If the 'feel' aspect of trim isn't familiar to you, try and get an experience flight sometime). If anyone can do it, you're the man! (Edit: another thing to consider is adding toe brakes to your rudder pedals).
Keep in mind that you're not only measuring the latency of your input device.
You include all the way from it through the code of the program and the output on the screen after going through a graphics chip.
This can add some serious numbers (maybe up to 50ms depending on how it is coded).
But to get a comparison between the devices it's good enough.
Nice work! Your ideas are always novel and that's why I'm a subscriber!
Awesome engineering and imagination ! I use aluminum profiles on a regular basis for building prototypes. Nothing beats it for speed and strength.
I ve just bought some magnetic hall efect sensor, im going to try this. Thank you Tom :)
As always, your videos are SO well done. Thank you sir.
You could add a feedback based on airspeed to the elevator springs w/ a manual "trim" balance wheel. Use stepper to pull one spring while pushing the other. Put stepper on mount that is movable by trim wheel. Flying a plane out of trim takes a bit of effort. Trim for climb, trim for cruse, and trim for landing. My 1953 Cessna 170b has a trim wheel that is about 5" in diameter controlling trim tab on trailing edge of elevator. Newer plans have electric trim. Older pipers have a crank handle that changes the angle of the horizontal stab.