Time Team S10-E13 Appleby,.Cumbria
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- Опубліковано 10 вер 2024
- Tony Robinson heads off to the old market town of Appleby in Cumbria and is brought face to face with the hardships of our early prisons.
A police station is on the site of no fewer than three historic gaols, now buried under the car park.
While hunting for the old cells under the tarmac, the Time Team also have to search for evidence of a legendary 18th century escape and the infamous hanging room.
Love Mick, Phil & Tony but Victor's wonderful artwork always made sense of the digs.
Poor Jim!! Quite an ordeal! See the look on Phil's face. I hope it didn't put him off from participating on later Time Team digs. I don't think so. Another great episode. Love the series. Have never learnt so much. Strange that I missed it all those years!
Awwww! Right at 40:29 or 40:30 when Jim is "released" from prison, the look on his face and the little, "Oh, thank you!" when Tony gives him the cuppa is sooo adorable! I wasn't expecting that at all! I was expecting a huge sigh and a lie down, not an immediate perk up like that. Ah, too cute. :) It's amazing how much good a cup of tea can do!
He seems like a guy who is loved by all the others as well. The looks on their faces as he was digging was heartbreaking. They knew he volunteered for this, and it was only an experiment, but the pain they exhibited was so real. Must be one heck of a decent man.
Donna Perez Oh wasn't it?? They all just came to a standstill, looking like somebody had died! (Sure, that could have been camera tricks, but it didn't seem that way.) And if his reaction to Tony is any indication, then surely they must all love him.
Yeah, this one was tough to watch. I really wanted to hear the officer say how difficult it was for him to command another human being like that, but... he didn't really! He expected to feel bad, I think he said beforehand, but after he only mused about how thorough it was, not about how haunting and horrible!! Makes me wonder about that man... ;)
schradeya It reminds me of a story I recall reading of a social experiment conducted at a school of some sort where the students were divided into two groups. One of guards and one of prisoners. The experiment had to be stopped early as the "guards" became to "brutal" which was NOT expected. The experiment basically showed how easy it is for a person's character to morph into someone totally opposite from their norm. I wish I could recall where it occurred, but that experiment became the basis for many sociological studies involving incarceration.
CompetitiveAudio Ohhhhh yeahhh I've heard of that! The Prison Experiment, or maybe the (school name) experiment? That shit was _terrifying_. People, man... "Just following orders" right? Suuuure.
CompetitiveAudio You are chillingly and absolutely correct. It was called "The Stanford Prison Experiment" (1971), and its highly controversial results and effects are still hotly debated to this day. A major IFC film about it is scheduled to be released on July 17, 2015.
I'm a social psychologist, and when, at 16:07, that UK policeman says what he says, I was chilled to the bone. The parallel was stunning.
Something else that chilled me deeply can be seen at 14:44 ... that "Hard Labour Treadmill". An horrific and completely functional recreation of it was constructed for the film "Wilde", starring Stephen Frye as Oscar Wilde. Oscar Wilde was sentenced to hard labour, and in the film he can be seen actually enduring "The Treadmill". Wilde's rapid physical and psychological deterioration, followed not long after by his death, has been attributed to this form of global torture.
WIKIPEDIA offers a very comprehensive critical analysis of The Stanford Prison Experiment, and it's a fascinating, and deeply disturbing read.
With my sincerest respect and admiration-- *Thank You.*
I like that John is always walking around with a worried brow, reading charts
Repent and turn to Jesus Christ
Don't forget stroking his beard, that's his trademark :D
Thank you! My family came from Appleby back in mid 1800s, and I've hoped there'd be a Time Team in the area. Even though it's the prison, glimpses of where my ancestors lived, and things they witnessed, it was fascinating.
"Mindless physical work to break the spirit..." sounds like modern day workplaces.
The heel plate seen on the recovered warder's boot would have been to keep the heel from wearing down, postponing an expensive repair. They were in use for a long time, it seems. As a RevWar reenactor, I have them on my 18th-century shoes.
They are still in use. I saw a shoemaker repair a pair of military boots here on youtube but I don't remember if it was for a britt or us soldier
Thank you for this upload - fascinating! The person they are talking about at 07:34 was one of my 3x gt grandfather's sons, William Jennings, executed by hanging, for rape. He was actually 15 years old at the time
Fascinating! Got to love family history.
It's not the most "interesting" of Time Teams ... in terms of the finds, or the archeology.
But it's fascinating for the experimental archeology. I felt for the lad. Dehumanized, and degraded. Brought home to me the experiences that blighted my own ancestor's lives.
Yes, all the other experiments they made were hard but this was clearly far worse. The look on his face made me feel sorry too. Oscar Wilde had two years of that hell because he was a homosexual. And so many others, probably, for stealing something to eat because they were hungry or similar reasons.
Phil Harding is absolutely hilarious!
Phil has become so popular he could present with the aid of his spade his own version of Time Team.
The floors of prisons must be made of extra strong and thick concrete to stop prisoners from trying to free themselves.
Ooh arggghhhh yes!
Thanks for the Uploads!! spend a good part of my day watching these
James Owens Hear, Hear! This series is an invaluably holistic education in so very many synergies.
I think Jim didn’t signed up for that prison part. He’s there to dig! What the hell? Lol! 😂😂😂
Gotta laugh at how they sent criminals to the colonies. Thanks for sending us your criminals. LOL 😂. History can be hysterical. Also very disturbing also.but it’s always interesting. I love this show. We need more shows like this. It’s a good way to get kids interesting in history and archeology. Very cool. And lives why mick and tony did it- they wanted to educate the masses and let them see the history that is usually reserved for those in universities. They wanted the every day people unable to be in universities to see it. That’s pretty cool. So much history there...
😂 the 🇬🇧 did NOT send over their prisoners/convicts to "you" (aka 🇦🇺)...most of "you"/your ancestors WERE the Prisoners 🤣✌🏻
I live in Appleby and my flat is only a couple of minutes walk away from the station/cell/car park!
my gggrandfather came from Appleby
@@kristic4472 Fantastic!
Victorian prison life and spending the summer at my grandparents house was much the same. From pointless tasks to the meager food, ah, good memories.
The local guy playing the turnkey looks amazingly like Anthony Hopkins. Adorable.
Stanford prison experiment (Zimbardo 1971) in Appleby!
I was a bit creeped out by the guard's reaction - however it's not surprising because we already know humans get off on controlling others & abusing their power.
add a healthy dose of "they deserved it." which back then might not be anything but .. bad luck. Sorry off to the navy you go. Sucked out loud back then.
Not much to see but the car park is here:
54°34'41.9"N, 2°29'17.7"W
They should have stopped that experiment with Jim one day earlier. He was a mental wreck when he finished it, that experiment actually made me mad that they let it go on for the whole time. He didn't stick around with the time team crew very long after that. I suspect that experience really played hell on his mind and scarred him mentally. Glad time team didn't do anymore extreme experiments like that after that. Maybe Jim should have spoke up and said he can't take it anymore and stopped it, but maybe the extra pay he got pushed him to finish it' Maybe he did speak up and time team convinced him with even more pay to finish it. Hard to watch that part of the show because i know a bit about prison life being a "guest" so to speak in that ancient Jackson Michigan , and it hard in the modern age, but victorian prison was even worse.
I don't know, all the young people end up leaving the show, I suspect when they get a Ph.D. (like Jenni Butterworth, who one day started to appear as Dr. Jenni B.) and start their own independent career. Hope this experience didn't leave Jim any scars! He knew it wasn't for real after all.
I like it when they all argue where they are going to dig first. K
... Anthony Hopkins' doppelganger has a yock at the Zimbardo ('Stanford') Experiment ... *genuinely creepy* -- 43:54
Makes me question eating at Applebee's..... ;)
Now we know why America put that "cruel and unusual punishment" clause in its Bill of Rights.
Too bad they seem to decided that line is moot. Life in prison for three times caught with a joint, children in cages separated from their parents, for profit prisons using de facto slave labor....
Cath' J J it’s heartbreaking, especially when so many of the real criminals who are causing so much damage just reside in DC.
Yeah about time for a few revolutionary minded people to put a few 69 caliber musket balls into them isn't it?
@@cathjj840 Anyone who claims to be a Christian, but supports strict sentencing and the death penalty, is no Christian at all.
We are protesting. We are tied of George Washington Rolling over in his grave. Time to get rid of those money hungry pocket lining pos to get out of office elections are coming. Thankfully and we are protesting. Also pushing for prison reform. Never should have been made private for profit BS in the first place. Wth is that?! Don’t get me started. I can on about the things that are broke recently but we are fighting to fix them. Been to long these wealthy old men forgot the constitution. And no one can pardon state crimes. :). So I can’t wait for those court dates! Time for them to spend time in those for profit BS jails along side of those they keep in there.....
Too bad they didn't spend that money on helping relieve the poor instead of making a bigger prison. Poverty was likely the reason for these small crimes.
Darla McFarland No, crime is the easy way. Make the punishment more costly than the crime and most people will stay on the straight and narrow!
@@icelandviking1961 standard bootlicker bullshit.
@@icelandviking1961 You've obviously never been poor. People used to be executed or transported for stealing a loaf of bread but they still chose to do that rather than starve.
Free food for all, yields a world with no crime.
"We invented police brutality." - Jeremy Clarkson
when turning the crank, if the prison officer wanted to punish the convict more he would tighten the crank by turning a screw. so today that's why a prison officer is know by the term SCREW
Wonder if that's where the expressions 'turn the screw' and 'put the screws on [someone]' comes from, too.
that's correct @@cathjj840
Thanx, Nick (I trust you're not screwin' around with me ;)
They should have used the inmates to dig the archeology......lol
No good mate. Inmates only do tunnels.😂
I think the jail must be in Letsbee Avenue ...
Poor Jim!
There are several moments I have come to expect to see in each episode. With Phil, it's a moment of frustration (often quite a long period), a moment of triumph, and a moment of embarrassment. I'm only seven minutes into this one, and already Phil is frustrated.
I love his "glad they finally got him" when they sent Jim for the reenactment. His humor always tickles me.
I'm assuming Jim actually did have to spend a day and night as a Victorian prisoner, but seems a bit excessive to make an historical point. Not sure a bottle of scotch was worth it.
Rewatching this it's a bit well, strange?? Two bottles?
If I were presented with that jail food and knew I would be out in 24 hours, I would simply fast.
That ‘prison experience’ went too far IMO. Had me in tears 💔
Phil is on the chain gang.
that sort of punishment was just un-godly and very unfair for the crime... the punishment just doesnt fit the crime
First aired March 30, 2003.
I've watched these since series 1. I've seen several without Mick, but when is Phil absent?
He said that he never missed an episode, even when they had to take him to the site in an ambulance because of his bad back.
Whats the difference between a workhouse and a prison?
I wonder who's gone pay for a new layer of tarmac :-?
This one was saddening.
The ‘turnkey’ seems a bit too nice.
Don’t do the crime if you can’t do the time!
Ah yeah, the prison one.
Does Phill always find the toilets 🚻 🤔?
Wonder if it's haunted?
My 1st thought. I was looking for spheres.
Apparently Dull Brown is the New Orange.
Tall and handsome copper...:)
Being to pass drugs, tobacco anything really is a lifesaver whilst inside.
I really don't understand the point in digging up what is already known and mapped out in detail and carrying out a faux exercise in cruelty.
Oh Phil Harding, I would have wished that to you my dear colleague ;) Wonder if you would have laughed, too. ;)))
***** Lol ... since Our Phil is forever itching to just dig in, and so enjoys his pints ... I nicknamed him *"Groglodyte"*.
They seriously went too far with the "experimental archaeology" in this one. They pretty much tortured poor Jim, willing volunteer or not. I honestly don't think this would be allowed today with everything that's happened in the last several years.
#1) speaking for myself, I'd find it hard to be intimidated by a man with frilly cuffs.
#2) Jim volunteered to be a mock prisoner rather than dig in the trench? And rewarded with a complimentary bottle of good scotch. Sounds like a good deal.
A rather underwhelming episode. I'm not sure why the Time Team took on this site. My heart bleeds for Jim.
Absolutely bizarre to me how they can talk about the prison experience like it doesn’t happen exactly that way today.
Don't know about you, but I don't recall seeing any women half disrobed, flogged through the streets and then sent back to hard labour or the tread wheel.
The prison experience is another world from Victorian style hard labour, transportation and execution. Nowadays, it's TV, internet access, 'free' education (whereas everyone else in England has to 'pay' for further education), sitting around in their cells.
I don't know if prisoners 'still' do work like you see in TV series like Porridge, like working in the kitchen, library or gardens - which is many miles away from what Jim was doing.
They also used to make things that were sold to the public. I still own a teddy bear that was made by an inmate at the jail in Abingdon, UK. When I was about 3, I accidentally burned his back by placing him against the fire guard (to keep warm on a winter's night). I remember being upset, so my dad returned him to the jail to be mended by one of the inmates. Teddy is about 55 years old now.
I don't know if prisoners still do those sorts of skills, but it's hardly bashing rocks. Just look again at the state of Jim, after a day of such gruelling work, and remember that he is a young man there, well used to digging and moving heavy rocks about. So he's no weed. But one day reduced him to silence.
"hours of hard labour".
No, it was torture. :-(((
he is not a sgt only a corp
I realize this may not be PC to say these days but the old saying still applies... "If you can't do the time, don't do the crime" The punishments are extreme for the crimes committed, but it was seemingly an effective deterrent. The last prison was closed because there were not enough prisoners to justify running the prison. I doubt that would be the case today.
+Donna Perez- So the poor boy who poached some game to feed himself or his family and was killed on the treadmill was 'deterred' from further crime?
Did his death keep other hungry people from stealing some rich person's deer or quail? I think not.
The woman who was stripped to the waist and whipped until she bled for stealing 10p worth of iron? A crime that would not have increased her wealth but may have fed her children would NOT have been a deterrent to another hungry person.
And the episode NEVER says there was a lack of prisoners. It says that it was too expensive for a small county like Cumbria to maintain but that doesn't fit your conservative political narrative so as usual you ignore the facts..
paraphrasing: "The Prison Reform Act of 1868 moved the executions inside, out of public view because the punishments were recognized to not be an effective way of demonstrating the State's power but instead cast the convicts as victims."
There is NO evidence that the punishments deterred crime back then, the same is true today.
In those days the families of debtors were imprisoned for years even though the women and children had no legal standing in the system. They became indentured servants who had to work off the debts of the husband/father.
How did that deter the profligate spendthrift?
Prison deters crime only in that it deters the actual prisoners from committing more crimes against the public while they are inside. It does not deter those outside from committing crimes, because no criminally-minded person ever thinks he will be caught.
Bang on, Greg.
@@destinationmobileone5476 My uncle was like that there is a psychological answer to that it's called Institutional mentality a fancy way to say they have been conditioned on how to live behind bars and can not cope with life out side of the prison system. In other words the system made him that way.
I do not agree with victorian prisions cruelity, but i think modern day prisions are far too lax, if someone is being imprisioned for a crime, their life should not be as comfortable as they are. It is pretty bad when prisoners are treated better then the homeless in some places. Basic needs should be provided of course but luxaries should not be, things like televisions, weight rooms, etc should not be allowed in prisions, they should not be allowed to spend any time together whatsoever unless supervised and in a controlled space. Not saying they should be completely bored out of their wits, things like having a radio, having books, a deck of cards, writting or and art martials, studying if they wish to futher their education i'm completely in agreement with but prison is no longer a deterant. Social workers and councillors should be availible 24/7 in case prisioners wish to deal with their issues or just have someone to listen and talk to. More time with family members in visitations should be allowed to give prisioners something to look forward to and a reason to change their lives around, they should be treated with respect and as human beings but at the same time more restained and controlled to make sure that being imprisioned is uncomfortable and not worth seeing as a lifestyle chioce.
What is your idea of comfort? In today's prisons, female prisoners had to swap sex with the guards to get a pack of cigarettes (Tallahassee FL). Sometimes they didn't get cigarettes. If you're a small man,you're an automatic target for rape, and Admin could care less . Once your split rectum heals, you're put right back out with the people who did it. If it was your son who went to prison on a minor pot charge and got raped on his first night, you might feel different about it.
Prisoners are forced to choose an ethnic gang for their own protection, and have to watch their back. If they ARE bored out of their wits, you'd better hope they have a TV or a weight room to expend some of their energy. Guards aren't even allowed to carry weapons, and are usually "saved" by other prisoners when in trouble. And there's always the basic "fun" of existing in an 8X10, having to bend over for a rectal exam anytime you're told to (like just before going in the visiting room), and having no choice of when to get up, when to eat pig slop, rarely seeing your family (if they bother to visit), and being locked 24/7 with some of the most inhumane violent people on earth.
Lucy Gray So your son committed a crime and you don’t like the punishment, well maybe if you were a better mother and taught him right from wrong his ass would not have been split. Next time he is in the pokie think about it.
Bet it's full when the Gypo's are in town.
Too bad we did away with these punishments
Vasectomy/Tubal Ligation after 2 children are born while on the dole. If you get on your feet and can pay your own way, you could apply for a reversal.
Great expense to governments yes, but many millions more saved.
Social worker counsel and care, further education availability, entry-level training for prevalent jobs in regional markets to get their foot in have all been suggested.
We must always care for children who, after all, weren't able to choose the parents they were given.
However, it is unreasonable to encourage those who have no self-control and are themselves on relief, to reproduce and expect others to foot the bill.
As far as prisons go, those costs would be reduced. Prisoners do not deserve college classes on my dime.
It p
so few episodes I haven't actually watched. this was one of them.
meh.
Carenza being a field archeologist she avoids doing work like no other. All the other Time Team members and field archeologists are all in the trenches working hard, surprised she didn't show up to take credit for the finds of others like she always does in other episodes.
She was pregnant after several miscarriages, she would go on to be very pregnant after this episode; also, right after this she was tragically misdiagnosed with breast cancer, underwent exhaustive chemotherapy and loss both her breast with a double mastectomy. Hence she faded from the later episodes and focused on her health and university work.
She wasn't pregnant in this episode. Her children were born in 2002, 1996, and 1992, this episode is from 2003. Her mastectomy from a terrible misdiagnoses was in the 90's. She left time team in 2004 because she scored a post at Cambridge University. She did the least amount of work of the Time Team group, and she shouldn't have been there.
OU812 i4got Carenza represented English Heritage...why does she bother you so much? I found her to be a kind and hard working person...certainly not a Phil, but no one was.
She's a lazy obnoxious freeloader who interrupts and pushes people out of camera shots and steals credit off hard working people. Gee? What's not to like about her?
@@OUigot Aired in 2003, filmed in 2002.
this shit was still hapening when i was younger,,,,,painting lumps of coal with white wash etc,,etc,,