Is an Infinite Past Logically Absurd?
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- Опубліковано 2 вер 2021
- For more information visit: www.reasonablefaith.org
Alex J. O'Connor, aka. (The) Cosmic Skeptic, questions Dr. Craig regarding the finitude of the past.
You can watch the entire interview here: • Cosmic Skeptic & Dr. C...
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Most atheists that have reached out to me directly have been aggressive, but Alex argues respectfully and discusses these philosophical ideas openly. It’s awesome to see!! Let’s pray for Alex. Thanks for sharing brother 🙌
Absolutely! Right now, everyone who reads this comment (above), may it launch you into prayer. I'm going to pray for Alex right now...
Exactly..I am a Muslim but more like Agnostic muslim, and to be honest one Alex is so respectful, tolerant and understanding, he tries to understand each point of view, not to mention I am having a huge respect for Mr. Craig such an intellectual person
I love Alex and I'm scared of him too, is that silly? I'm scared that I would not be able to answer to his questions, I love him because he is smart, inquisitive, logical and even so, he is humble not boasting
Alex has some residue of Catholicism in him. He was a former sacristan. And, he is afraid of Hell
Yeah Alex is super smart and articulate
Alex is my favorite atheist to listen to. He has well construct arguments that make me think. He has helped me develop my faith in Christ.
😂😂😂
I agree!! He’s extremely smart. Probably smarter than the four horsemen atheists
bright kid
😭😭😭
Dawkins could learn a thing or two about respect from Alex. If he's the future of atheists, there is a lot of hope for constructive dialogue.
This was one of my favorite discussions. I really enjoyed the full video.
Is disliking this video logically absurd? Yes, yes it is.
Because it's not even possible to do so - here or on any other video on YT
@@mugsofmirth8101 rip
WLC on point as always 👍 He does not mix the terminology! People without his level of knowledge will not be consistent in distinguishing between logical consistency and applicability in the real world.
on point? maybe but his is totally irrational. Absurdities isnt proof that something isnt possible.
@@matswessling6600 "Proof". It is a strong indicator of the degree to which something is possible in the real world.
@@AleInBywater no. it has no bearing on whats really possible whatsoever.
quantum mechanics is absurd but real.
@@matswessling6600 You are totally wrong. My door being made of water but still functioning as a door is absurd and impossible, a married bachelor is absurd and impossible, me being two places simultanously is absurd and impossible. You correctly note that there are some very few instances to the contrary, and that's fair. But the vast, vast, vast majority of absurdities are not feasable, hence something being absurd indicates impossibility in the real world.
@@AleInBywater Glad you realized that there are real things that are absurd which proves my point: that something is absurd does NOT necessarily mean that it is not real.
thus WLC :s argument falls.
That was beautiful
Can you make a video responding to the recent video on Jesus by 'The Infographics show'?
what about this reflexion:
1) One hypothesis is that the universes, or the fact that something exist ---> had never had a start... and so it exist from an infinite time.
2) If it's the case, we can assume that all the possibilities have already existed... and not only once, but an infinite time. Each scenario lived an infinite time.
3) Hypothesis into this hypothesis --> We just are living one of these possibilities again.... or if the Soul exist, we are just choosing what world we want to "re-live"... like choosing to live a Dream... just pick which one.
4) There is no evidence of what I say... but we can NEVER prove that this hypothesis is wrong --> Because maybe we try to prove it from a World, were the rules are fake... and we try to disprove it with a fake world.... like if you wanted to prove something in this world, using the mathematics and rules in one of your dream.
I love the ending music
Sounds like something from Portishead or some trip-hop
And the intro sounds like something from a dystopian sci-fi cyberpunk film
how can infinity end at present moment, its like saying infinity elapsed since now ! but do infinity got an end by definition?
if negative infinity isnt possible then positive infinity isnt possible either.
In principle, it is impossible to have an “infinite” number of parts in between two points for two independent reasons:
(1) “Infinite” is not a quantity, just as “huge” is not a quantity. Terms like “infinite quantity” and “infinite number” should be understood to function like the terms “huge quantity” and “huge number”. “Infinite” in “infinite quantity/number” is a qualitative description of the quantity/number just as “huge” in “huge quantity/number” is a qualitative description of the quantity/number.
(2) No matter how small is the length of each tiny divided part, the length of each part has a non-zero value. When the length between two points (say, 1cm) is divided by any non-zero value, it necessarily results in a finite quantity, instead of an “infinite” quantity.
How come this atheist isnt calling him names and making fun of him?
because he has superhero powers...
?
you could use the exact argument Craig said about math, to describe why theological literature (as opposed to mathematical literature) can not be substantitated in such a way that would affect the argument.
1:12 Craig even agrees with this idea when it comes to infinite regression, but not when it comes to his God. interesting double standard.
There is only one concrete infinite, that being God. All other infinites such as maths flow from Him.
*they're part of God
Why would anyone accept that? Do you have an argument for your assertion?
I think the Grim Reaper paradox from Alexander Pruss shows that an infinite regress of causal events leads to logical absurdities. I like the apple version better that he presents in the end of this video /watch?v=aRjUZfXiZ0E
Can you reshare the link?
@@Mrgloire The link works fine, you just need to copy and paste it after youtube address. The reason i don't give the full URL is because sometimes youtube blocks comments containing links. However i'll reply with another message below this one with the full link.
@@Mrgloire Here is ua-cam.com/video/aRjUZfXiZ0E/v-deo.html
@@STREEEEEET Thanks mate. God bless!
logical absurdities isnt a proof for anything.
What is the difference between metaphysical and logical impossibility ?
Metaphysical impossibility = not a contradiction but also not physically possible in any conceivable universe.
Logical impossibility = Entails a contradiction so as to be absurd.
@@leonardu6094 I am not sure I understand the metaphysical impossibility. Do you have a simple example of something that would be metaphysically impossible?
@@cultofscriabin9547 an enternally existing universe, because how could we ever come (in time) to the present if there were infinite moments/events that have happened in the past (just one of the arguments)
An event precedes itself. Something cause yourself. Something to be all red and all green at the same time. Something to have color but not size. Something to have size but not shape. Something to lose parts and continue to exist. Something exists in two separate places at the same time. Something ceases to exist and starts to exist again. A set of propositions have mass. A person being a number. And many others
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me that negative numbers may be an example of a logically coherent concept that cannot be actualized in the real world (at least in most instances), aka metaphysically impossible. There is nothing logically impossible about the number -4, but it just doesn't make sense to say I have -4 apples. It is a metaphysical impossibility for that number to be applied to apples.
Yes it leads to logical absurdity. Its like saying an Ocean that is infinitely deep has a surface. Its paradox, hence, illogical
No, because all points in time exist at once.
@@maverick4255 infinite past is impossible. Otherwise an infinite time had to pass in order to be in the "now"
It is a logical absurdity. Like in my analogy, if the bottom of the ocean is infinitely deep, the surface will fall down infinitely deep. So the surface won't exist. But if the surface does exist, it means there is a bottom where the ocean can fill up so to say.
@@CatHaringtonwrong. You assume each point in time is unique when in actuality the universe would be cyclical.
There is a finite amount of ways to rearrange the protons in the universe. Thus there is a finite number of unique universes. Eventually if you go far enough in the past you will end up with in the same universe.
Thus the now that we are experiencing had already happened an infinite number of times with the universe repeating itself.
@@mnemosyne1337 so you say there is an infinite amount of events that already happened?
And you don't see how this is impossible and contradicting?
If it's infinite, it doesn't end. You say exactly what I said in the analogy.
You say it is possible that the Ocean is infinitely deep, while you see the surface.
But if it's infinitely deep, the surface can't form in the first place because it goes down infinitely deep. so it won't exist.
@@CatHarington Wrong. I am saying that there are finite many events that reoccur infinite number of times.
The Poincare Reoccurrence Time is the time it takes for a container of particles to randomly reassume their original orientation.
Basically if there is a box with two balls rolling around. The time it takes for the two balls to randomly join back up in their original starting position is the Poincare Reoccurence time.
Now extrapolate that to the the entire universe and you see that there are only finite number of ways to shuffle protons in the universe. Hence there are only finite many ways the universe can exist. As such given an infinite time, the past will literally repeat itself, again and again in a cycle.
So you see there are finitely number of events happening an infinite amount of time.
The other model that answers this question is that there is no time. Time is an illusion. All instance of the past, present, future exist simultaneously in a 4-d hyperblock of space-time.
You might then suppose that this is god or a god like being created this structure. In which case, I can always say that structure exists as part of a hyper structure and so on.
Infinite regression, while unintuitive, is logically coherent. It serves to exist as a model that doesn't need god and as such one apologists fail to disprove.
So how long did God exist before He created the World ? If He never began because has always existed, then that is an actual infinite.
What did Craig say, about the infinity of the universe that would invalidate the infinity of God?
@@allstar4065 Craig and his followers: The Universe cannot be an Actual Infinite because it leads to Metaphysical Absurdities. God can be an actual Infinite ‘cause He is God.
@@TheMirabillis When we say God is "infinite", we mean infinite in a qualitative sense, not a quantitative sense. I.e. He is infinite because He is eternal, omnipotent, omniscient and so forth. In terms of how long God existed before He created the world, this is just a misunderstanding. Time came into existence at the beginning of the universe. There was no time "before" the beginning of the universe. God therefore existed in a timeless state. So it makes no sense to ask "how long did God exist before He created the world". He existed timelessly, and so there is no length of time.
@@roshanselvaratnam4514 Yes, I have heard Craig say what you’re saying but it if people are truly honest with themselves and other people, it really does not satisfy anyone. Why ?
Because according to many Theologians, prior to Creation, God [ as Father, Son, and Spirit ] was enjoying a mutual exchange of fellowship and love toward one another. That fellowship and love was not frozen in a timeless state. To think it was is what is absurd.
God was thinking and planned and decided what He would create. That thinking and planning and deciding was not frozen in a timeless state. To think it was is what is absurd.
Imagine little Johnny asking His Father: “ Daddy, how long was God in that Timeless state before He created the Universe and came into time ? “
His Father says, “ Johnny don’t ask such questions. Don’t you know that Dr. Craig thinks that that such questions make no sense ? “
I am so sick and tired of people buying in William Lane Craig’s BS just because he says it. Give me a Man or a Woman who can think for themselves and just doesn’t buy what Craig is selling because he says it.
Time didn't exist before this world is created
COWBOY LOGIC
To tell the truth, the whole truth and the nothing but the truth, I personally couldn't care less ïf an infinite past is logically absurd. What I am certain of is the fact of the Resurrection of Jesus Christ. That's all I need. 👌🏼
And... that is why he can say:
"... and I was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of death and of Hades."
Revelation 1:18
Atheists don't need escape routes. It is the default position.
No
A lot of athiests just don't believe in God because it gives them comfort (not worrying about there actions having consequences, heaven or hell and the fact that God exists)
@@virginnation8018 Ok you got me.
Why would atheism be the default position?
Why?
The answer is "yes", there are reasons for an infinite past. We are on the positive time side, so we can't reach the infinite past, but everything must begin there. For one thing - time can't begin in a moment of time, or in itself, which is contradictory. Infinity time is abstract only, and only concepts or ideas belong there. Nothing belongs there, and then the concepts of existence. 'Nothing' is actually not even a concept. It is more of an idea. It is "something" that is "not there". But it causes existence and the direction toward positive and therefore Life.
???
@@maxxpro4 Let me make this simple. How long ago did 1+1=2? There is no time that it did not. Only in theory at the beginning of time. It had to have a reason to be true, but that reason could not exist in realized time, only in the concept realm.
@@wprandall2452 Many of your statements are conclusions. Does 1 + 1 always equal 2?
@@maxxpro4 Huh? Gee, I think it does unless you change the rules.
@@wprandall2452 what rules??? Who made those rules? Please elaborate
Alex is the type the Lord would use for His glory
Then send him to Hell for not believing 😂
@@mugsofmirth8101 then send him to Hell because he justly deserves it 😌
*Y’all playing dumb and it’s annoying.*