Those that came to America came to practice a religion that was NOT run by its government. England's established church, is The Church of England. There are other religions but the accepted Religion at the time was the church of England established by Henry the 8th. When America was Established the Founders wanted to avoid a Nationalized "Religion" because they understood the OPPRESSION of an Established National Church. It removes a person's freedom of Choice to worship freely. Whatever Thomas Jefferson said OUTSIDE of the LAW that is our Constitution, was his OWN opinion. Hence the establishment of article 6 of the first amendment. You can twist it however you want but the point is that EACH and EVERY American should never be FORCED to practice ANY religion they do NOT SUBSCRIBE too. THAT IS FREEDOM! If the founders meant to put a national religion in the Constitution. They would have done so, clearly and CONCISELY. I wish these conversations would stop and you would accept your freedom to practice religion and let those that do not subscribe to your particular brand of religion do the same. Religious people are free to be a part of government, They are not free to press their personal ideologies or religious beliefs onto the people of America as a whole.
not actually true... up until 1776 (and in some instances after) every territory in North America except for New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island and Deleware had established official state churches. And in most of those cases, the established church was the church of england. So your theory doesnt actually align with ya know.... facts and history.
@@Ddub1083So obviously before 1776 we were an English colony, So it would make sense that states would establish a church of England here.. I'm talking about after the war for Independence and why there is a separation of church and state clause within the Constitution.
@@TieThemTubes right but the point is that it counters your suggestion that people who came to america came to practice a religion that was not run by its government... that didnt occur until over 250 odd years after the first settlers came to america. granted the founders wanted to avoid a nationalized religion as well... but that ignores the fact that numerous states retained their state established religions well into the 1840s. The constitution technically does not prohibit state established religions by the states, it only prohibits congress (ie federal) from establishing such. I dont disagree with your opinion, separation of church and state is paramount, despite the speaker's abhorrent misrepresentations of Jefferson's letter. However, historically, states did have established religions for decades even after the the revolution. Indeed it was exactly these things that Thomas Jefferson was writing in opposition to in 1802. (edit: of course, supreme court caselaw has applied this portion of the 1st amendment to the states... but notably that did not occur until many years later.)
The 1st Amendment quite literally says "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof." To answer your question, "why do people cling so strongly to that language?": because we don't want to be forced to adhere to any specific belief/religion....is that not obvious??
The first amendment to the US Constitution states "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof." The two parts, known as the "establishment clause" and the "free exercise clause" respectively, form the textual basis for the Supreme Court's interpretations ,,,An August 15, 1789, entry in Madison's papers indicates he intended for the establishment clause to prevent the government imposition of religious beliefs on individuals. The entry says: "Mr. Madison said he apprehended the meaning of the words to be, that Congress should not establish a religion, and enforce the legal observation of it by law, nor compel men to worship God in any manner contrary to their conscience.
Big difference in government forcing and establishing a religion and people in the government basing their decisions and policies on their religion. Like don't murder is from religion eh.
@@onlywenilaugh6589it's the same thing. If you're basing your decisions, i.e. laws, on your religion, you are thereby imposing your religious beliefs on others. However, if those beliefs happen to be what is truly best for the people, then it doesn't matter if it comes from your religion, or any other set of moral or ethical framework. Arriving at the correct position is what matters, and that is what's best for the wellbeing of the people.
@@grovr7543 The correct position" should be the moral position. Law and morality are interdependent, and while religious beliefs deal in morality, they are by no means the authority of it. Imposing practices or beliefs particular to a religion, such as prayer, symbols, teaching of scripture, etc., on public institutions is not for the good of the people. Those practices are based on faith, not morality.
the separation of church and state is in the constitution article VI “no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.” and the establishment clause to the 1st Amendment to the constitution "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;..." i like how they say thats not what the founding fathers wanted because the danbury baptist letter was written by thomas jefferson
as it should be...the Republicans are going to be in trouble if they go down this route. Have you seen Agenda2025? Plenty of junk in there by the Heritage Foundation. Trump seems to be on that bandwagon. I'm done with him because of it too.
I think we've learned from experience that it's also impossible. All Jefferson accomplished was wrenching the Church out of governance. Tradition (in this case, British tradition) is the answer to questions you forgot existed.
@@KopperNeoman Everybody already knows that cliché quote by Winston Churchill about how democracy is the worst system except for all the other ones. The Separation of Church and State continues to be a political struggle today because of disputes over the justification of authority, yet it is also the _outcome_ of recognizing the absolute importance of _public reason,_ which is literally the only expression of civil society that ties diverse populations from backgrounds from all over the world together. Do you want to know what came _just before_ that recognition? The largest and longest religious war in European history, fought between Catholics and Protestants...
You hear so much about the separation of church, and state. The phrase which is not even found in the constitution. What the founding fathers did believe is this… there should be no state church paid for with tax money, but not ever in their wildest dreams did they ever think about the separation of God, and government. Thats why we say “one nation under God,” “God bless america,” and “we are endowed by our creator with certain inalienable rights,” Its just your lack of knowledge, and understanding.
“I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church & State.” - Thomas Jefferson
Pick one, church or state. You can't hold both in your heart. Jesus taught us "“Therefore render to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s.”
The "It's not in the constitution, it was a letter" approach is so disgustingly and intellectually dishonest. No, the words "Separation of church and state" are not in the constitution, but it's the layman's for "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof" and these words ARE in the constitution. (It also references where article VI of the constitution prohibits religious tests for qualifications to office.)
You hear so much about the separation of church, and state. The phrase which is not even found in the constitution. What the founding fathers did believe is this… there should be no state church paid for with tax money, but not ever in their wildest dreams did they ever think about the separation of God, and government. Thats why we say “one nation under God,” “God bless america,” and “we are endowed by our creator with certain inalienable rights,” Its just your lack of knowledge, and understanding.
"Wall of Separation" is far older than Jefferson. Religious dissident and refugee from Puritan Massachusetts Roger Williams used this description around 1640. Jefferson was likely aware of Williams when he wrote his letter. The Supreme Court invoked this phrase in Reynolds v. US 1879. The Chief Justice consulted historian George Bancroft, who knew of Jefferson's letter. The Court's decision announced the "wall of separation" as the definition of the First Amendment's Establishment and Free Exercise clauses. It was not 20th century liberal activist judges.
I am educating myself on Roger Williams and his values that Government and Religion should stay out of each other's business. I'm trying to find articles, or documents that he wrote that discusses this. Do you have any links, or can you direct me to his teachings?
I think its the idea that Religion is personal and private, and that the State's authority over its citizens should not include dictating their beliefs. The Government should not concern itself with a person's religious beliefs.
Jefferson was, it seems, simply applying the results of the Investiture Controversy and the papal understanding of the .. authoritative separation of the Two Cities - of God and of Man, and the responsibilities that these official and authoritative powers may expect to bear (together and apart). Gallicanism, Anglicanism, Calvinism, and Josephism had variously refused to accept this State - Church separate-yet-shared spheres notion. Napoleon and Pius VII were in the process of making an accord .. concordat, setting out the limits and extents to which the State and the Church could work together and where they may not go; such a concord, of course, would not be applicable to a State that did not recognise the Church of Rome .. or the authority of the Church of England (or Wittenburg or Geneva or My Own Little Church of Sasquatch Four Square Revelation, Susquehanna, backwoods USA). The Jeffersonian, Masonic, limitation on Roman interference in local Church - State interactions gave an unforeseen tremendous boost to the actual authority of the popes at Rome, as most States simply handed over their jealously guarded controls on what Rome could and could not do .. officially. ;o)
"Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For these is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God." ( Romans 13:1). "Render therefore to all their due: taxes to whom taxes are due , customs to whom customs, fear to whom fear, honor to whom honor " (Romans 13:7)
Interesting that this guy provides no actual context within the constitution that supports what he's saying. It's a complete word salad, and a dishonest one at that.
what that Jefferson allowed church services in congress and was in attendance and liberal lie when they say all forefathers were deist or atheists' OR MAYBE LIBERAL DECIDE TO IGNORE EVIDENCE FROM THE FACT CHRISTIAN BRITISH MEN AND WOMEN CAME TO THE COLONIES AND STATES FROM FLEEING RELIGIOUS PERSECUTION AND FOUNDED THE GOVERNMENT. SO CHRISTIAN ETHICS, PRINCIPLES, AND VALUES HAVE ROOTS IN THE FOUNDING. THAT YOU SEEM TO JUST WANT TO IGNORE
Those that came to America came to practice a religion that was NOT run by its government. England's established church, is The Church of England. There are other religions but the accepted Religion at the time was the church of England established by Henry the 8th. When America was Established the Founders wanted to avoid a Nationalized "Religion" because they understood the OPPRESSION of an Established National Church. It removes a person's freedom of Choice to worship freely. Whatever Thomas Jefferson said OUTSIDE of the LAW that is our Constitution, was his OWN opinion. Hence the establishment of article 6 of the first amendment. You can twist it however you want but the point is that EACH and EVERY American should never be FORCED to practice ANY religion they do NOT SUBSCRIBE too. THAT IS FREEDOM! If the founders meant to put a national religion in the Constitution. They would have done so, clearly and CONCISELY. I wish these conversations would stop and you would accept your freedom to practice religion and let those that do not subscribe to your particular brand of religion do the same. Religious people are free to be a part of government, They are not free to press their personal ideologies or religious beliefs onto the people of America as a whole.
not actually true... up until 1776 (and in some instances after) every territory in North America except for New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island and Deleware had established official state churches. And in most of those cases, the established church was the church of england. So your theory doesnt actually align with ya know.... facts and history.
@@Ddub1083So obviously before 1776 we were an English colony, So it would make sense that states would establish a church of England here.. I'm talking about after the war for Independence and why there is a separation of church and state clause within the Constitution.
@@TieThemTubes right but the point is that it counters your suggestion that people who came to america came to practice a religion that was not run by its government... that didnt occur until over 250 odd years after the first settlers came to america. granted the founders wanted to avoid a nationalized religion as well... but that ignores the fact that numerous states retained their state established religions well into the 1840s. The constitution technically does not prohibit state established religions by the states, it only prohibits congress (ie federal) from establishing such.
I dont disagree with your opinion, separation of church and state is paramount, despite the speaker's abhorrent misrepresentations of Jefferson's letter. However, historically, states did have established religions for decades even after the the revolution. Indeed it was exactly these things that Thomas Jefferson was writing in opposition to in 1802. (edit: of course, supreme court caselaw has applied this portion of the 1st amendment to the states... but notably that did not occur until many years later.)
@@Ddub1083 yep, the whole freedom of choice to practice whatever religion.
@@Ddub1083 okay you win. Lol You're right, I'm wrong
The 1st Amendment quite literally says "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof."
To answer your question, "why do people cling so strongly to that language?": because we don't want to be forced to adhere to any specific belief/religion....is that not obvious??
The inquisitions is one of many many many reasons.
💯
@yoyohooyo 💯
The first amendment to the US Constitution states "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof." The two parts, known as the "establishment clause" and the "free exercise clause" respectively, form the textual basis for the Supreme Court's interpretations ,,,An August 15, 1789, entry in Madison's papers indicates he intended for the establishment clause to prevent the government imposition of religious beliefs on individuals. The entry says: "Mr. Madison said he apprehended the meaning of the words to be, that Congress should not establish a religion, and enforce the legal observation of it by law, nor compel men to worship God in any manner contrary to their conscience.
Big difference in government forcing and establishing a religion and people in the government basing their decisions and policies on their religion. Like don't murder is from religion eh.
@@onlywenilaugh6589it's the same thing. If you're basing your decisions, i.e. laws, on your religion, you are thereby imposing your religious beliefs on others. However, if those beliefs happen to be what is truly best for the people, then it doesn't matter if it comes from your religion, or any other set of moral or ethical framework. Arriving at the correct position is what matters, and that is what's best for the wellbeing of the people.
What do you mean by "arriving at the correct position"? Correct by what standard?
@@grovr7543 The correct position" should be the moral position. Law and morality are interdependent, and while religious beliefs deal in morality, they are by no means the authority of it. Imposing practices or beliefs particular to a religion, such as prayer, symbols, teaching of scripture, etc., on public institutions is not for the good of the people. Those practices are based on faith, not morality.
@@Mike_C-79 so what's the standard that you judge something to me moral or immoral?
the separation of church and state is in the constitution article VI “no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.” and the establishment clause to the 1st Amendment to the constitution "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;..." i like how they say thats not what the founding fathers wanted because the danbury baptist letter was written by thomas jefferson
You are twisted and hell bound.
The phase explains the first amendment in a clearer context
Your confused. The separation of church & state goes both ways. Both church & state are to keep out of each other’s business.
as it should be...the Republicans are going to be in trouble if they go down this route. Have you seen Agenda2025? Plenty of junk in there by the Heritage Foundation. Trump seems to be on that bandwagon. I'm done with him because of it too.
You are certainly retarded.
That is not at all what it means
Separation of State and Church. That’s a better way to phrase it.
I think we've learned from experience that it's also impossible. All Jefferson accomplished was wrenching the Church out of governance.
Tradition (in this case, British tradition) is the answer to questions you forgot existed.
@@KopperNeoman
Everybody already knows that cliché quote by Winston Churchill about how democracy is the worst system except for all the other ones.
The Separation of Church and State continues to be a political struggle today because of disputes over the justification of authority, yet it is also the _outcome_ of recognizing the absolute importance of _public reason,_ which is literally the only expression of civil society that ties diverse populations from backgrounds from all over the world together.
Do you want to know what came _just before_ that recognition?
The largest and longest religious war in European history, fought between Catholics and Protestants...
@@Synodalian "Strange women, lying in ponds, distributing swords is no basis for a system of government!"
You hear so much about the separation of church, and state. The phrase which is not even found in the constitution. What the founding fathers did believe is this… there should be no state church paid for with tax money, but not ever in their wildest dreams did they ever think about the separation of God, and government. Thats why we say “one nation under God,” “God bless america,” and “we are endowed by our creator with certain inalienable rights,” Its just your lack of knowledge, and understanding.
"God Bless America" and "One Nation Under God" aren't in the Constitution either.
“I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church & State.” - Thomas Jefferson
Pick one, church or state. You can't hold both in your heart. Jesus taught us "“Therefore render to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s.”
Where does the letter (or the Constitution - either way) say that the church (or which church) gets to tell the government what to do?
Ask Lauren Boebert.
This led the thousands of Protestants, Jews, and Moslems being burned 🔥 alive at the SPANISH MONARCHY/CATHOLIC CHURCH UNION INQUISITION! 😢
The "It's not in the constitution, it was a letter" approach is so disgustingly and intellectually dishonest. No, the words "Separation of church and state" are not in the constitution, but it's the layman's for "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof" and these words ARE in the constitution. (It also references where article VI of the constitution prohibits religious tests for qualifications to office.)
In Reynolds v. US 1879 the Supreme Court cited the Wall of Separation as the definition of the First Amendment.
You hear so much about the separation of church, and state. The phrase which is not even found in the constitution. What the founding fathers did believe is this… there should be no state church paid for with tax money, but not ever in their wildest dreams did they ever think about the separation of God, and government. Thats why we say “one nation under God,” “God bless america,” and “we are endowed by our creator with certain inalienable rights,” Its just your lack of knowledge, and understanding.
“comfort your hearts, and stablish you in every good word and work.”
2 Thessalonians 2:17 KJV
What is your core, most fundamental doctrin in your belief ?
"Wall of Separation" is far older than Jefferson. Religious dissident and refugee from Puritan Massachusetts Roger Williams used this description around 1640. Jefferson was likely aware of Williams when he wrote his letter.
The Supreme Court invoked this phrase in Reynolds v. US 1879. The Chief Justice consulted historian George Bancroft, who knew of Jefferson's letter. The Court's decision announced the "wall of separation" as the definition of the First Amendment's Establishment and Free Exercise clauses.
It was not 20th century liberal activist judges.
I am educating myself on Roger Williams and his values that Government and Religion should stay out of each other's business. I'm trying to find articles, or documents that he wrote that discusses this. Do you have any links, or can you direct me to his teachings?
Not in the Constitution? Neither is "presumed innocent unless proven guilty."
Where's the link to this man's video about it??
Where is the link
What was really the motive behind the making of the law of separation of the church and the State?
I think its the idea that Religion is personal and private, and that the State's authority over its citizens should not include dictating their beliefs. The Government should not concern itself with a person's religious beliefs.
Thank you for this historic lesson
The first amendment supports the idea of separation of church and state maybe read the first amendment
@@Demonoicgamer666”the idea of”
@@TheoGarza yes supports the idea of there’s no freedom of religion in a state that favours a specific religion.
Is "secular" the only word the interviewer knows? The interview would be much better without the guy doing the interview.
Good information
Jefferson was, it seems, simply applying the results of the Investiture Controversy and the papal understanding of the .. authoritative separation of the Two Cities - of God and of Man, and the responsibilities that these official and authoritative powers may expect to bear (together and apart).
Gallicanism, Anglicanism, Calvinism, and Josephism had variously refused to accept this State - Church separate-yet-shared spheres notion. Napoleon and Pius VII were in the process of making an accord .. concordat, setting out the limits and extents to which the State and the Church could work together and where they may not go; such a concord, of course, would not be applicable to a State that did not recognise the Church of Rome .. or the authority of the Church of England (or Wittenburg or Geneva or My Own Little Church of Sasquatch Four Square Revelation, Susquehanna, backwoods USA).
The Jeffersonian, Masonic, limitation on Roman interference in local Church - State interactions gave an unforeseen tremendous boost to the actual authority of the popes at Rome, as most States simply handed over their jealously guarded controls on what Rome could and could not do .. officially.
;o)
"Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For these is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God." ( Romans 13:1). "Render therefore to all their due: taxes to whom taxes are due , customs to whom customs, fear to whom fear, honor to whom honor " (Romans 13:7)
This is a horrible distortion of american history.
Great content (but does he have to yell?)
Interesting that this guy provides no actual context within the constitution that supports what he's saying. It's a complete word salad, and a dishonest one at that.
The comment section disagrees what you say CBN and no one want a conservative agenda shoved down our throats.
what that Jefferson allowed church services in congress and was in attendance and liberal lie when they say all forefathers were deist or atheists' OR MAYBE LIBERAL DECIDE TO IGNORE EVIDENCE FROM THE FACT CHRISTIAN BRITISH MEN AND WOMEN CAME TO THE COLONIES AND STATES FROM FLEEING RELIGIOUS PERSECUTION AND FOUNDED THE GOVERNMENT. SO CHRISTIAN ETHICS, PRINCIPLES, AND VALUES HAVE ROOTS IN THE FOUNDING. THAT YOU SEEM TO JUST WANT TO IGNORE
😷☕
The frick they can.