Talking to Rachel - Convert Muslimah
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- Опубліковано 27 вер 2024
- Taken from my last livestream. It was a very pleasant conversation. I hope to have more of these. She'll be back on the channel, so make sure you follow!
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This conversation is the ideal example for one where I shouldn't be seeing many negative comments. So before you write one, reflect on the purpose of the talk and the propose of your comment
I think you are waisting your time with people who want faith at any cost. Common sense is at a premium.
You should connect this lady to the french Canadian lady (exmna) who lost her two daughters in Libya.
What terrifies me the most is not the Evil, but the tolerance of the Evil by the “ good “ people. We are damned.
Yes brother but there were situations where you could easily opened her eyes from her Qur'an verses, specially about islamic heaven and what muhhomad said that women have half a brain etc etc... anyways
@@batman-sr2px People think that a moderate Muslim is not too bad. They don’t understand that it’s the moderate Muslims who support the radicals. There is no so called moderate Evil.
There you are again: people convert to Islam but then soon find that they do not agree with Islam or like Islam.
She may yet find to her dismay that Islam is the Hotel California of religions...
Honestly bro. Like you can't just pick and choose what you want to believe in the religion the Hadiths are a central part of the Islamic faith ignoring those just because they are senseless is honestly pointless
Her story reminds me of my own. I was taken in by the scientific miracles claims and believed that all the controversial stuff was just people misinterpreting Islam, and you can rely just on the Quran. As became more practicing I realised you need Hadiths to understand the context of verses (including the violent ones) and important practices such as praying etc. The more I studied, the more disturbing things kept popping up. When I looked more into the scientific miracles claims, I found that the translations I was first shown had been severely twisted to retrofit modern science, and actually had inaccuracies. I decided to put my biases aside and really look at everything objectively…that is when the whole thing started to crumble. It was hard to admit to myself that I was wrong. Worse yet, I felt like I was a gullible fool and worried about how others might view me - Muslims that would view me as an apostate and disappointment, and non-Muslims who would say I told you so. But in the end, I’m glad I went through that because it taught me an important life lesson, that is, to be critical, objective, and open minded changing your view point based on evidence. That continues to serve me very well in my career now :)
I commend you for your courage and love for truth
Awesome work 👏
I have the same experience as an ex convert. Good for you 👍🏾
I read the first sentences and I felt that.I am ashamed that I needed like 1-1,5 years to realise that it's all propaganda and double standards.I AM SO ASHAMED.
Well people make mistakes. At least you realised it's mistake. Just hoping that billions more can see that it's a big mistake!
I love this sort of open and honest dialogue between Muslims and ex-Muslims. No one trying to trip anyone up.
It is quite refreshing. These videos just reminds me that there are still progressive soft spoken Muslims. It is sad that they are often drowned out by the vocal conservative ones
How is your beautiful daughter and your handsome son in law. Miss their contribution.
Hassan why'd you stop with your channel. I miss your articulate and sober videos!
You are the greatest hassan!
@@Leviathan123456 agree
I became a quranist when I was 14. And stayed like that for about 12 years. I tried to twist every text that I can so that I can have a humane quran but you can only reinterpret so much
The thing with a religion, a political belief or an opinion is that we get emotionally attached to the belief or view point which doesn't allow us to at the easily change the said belief or opinion when challenged with new information that makes us question ourselves!
I think this was a very good conversation and I think Apostate Alaadin asked some very good provoking questions that were good for Rachel and the rest is up to her to evaluate what makes sense...
Yup! You cannot be a Muslim and reject hadith. Being a quranist is just a nice way of justifying lying to yourself daily.
Quranism can be the first step to apostasy as they will see the obvious contradictions and tricks mohammed played when conjuring the Quran verses. Quranism should be promoted and people will soon read Quran for themselves and they'll see the truth.
@@geess007 yes I always compare quranism to methadone treatment for heroine addicts
The crown prince of najd wants people to be koranist too
She have made her own islam, good luck whid that
The first Indian female who led Islamic prayer is now an ex-Muslim and she has lot of death threats against her from Muslims. It would be good if this lady would have a chat with her. Her name is Jamita Teacher. She was an Arabic teacher.
If you get death of leaving religion than that religion is a false religion
Who led Islamic prayer 😂 your a lier
Sadly the first female indian imam jamida beevi is not an ex muslim.
She is still trying her best to modernize and reform islam.
@@KomodoDrago Cope.
@@greyngreyer5 it’s just sad y’all lie
Strange that some of the things in Islam that bother her, are the very things Muhammad and Allah pride themselves on.
More strange is...and I feel it should have been called out live on her....she stated at one point , and I paraphrase her "I think Muslims are not perfect, but Quran is perfect".....but then she finds problematic things in the Qur'an and glosses over them and plays the game of interpretation. So they switch from Quran to Tafseer/ Hadiths /Sunnahs like a tap dance.
She formed her own belief out of Islam certainly not same Islam Mohammed found
Ironic right. because in this modern world there are many Muslims who adhere to liberalism. and they interpret Islam more based on their own reason and conscience. Whereas traditional Islam is Salafi Islam.
@@PraiseworthyNobleman Yes especially western converts!
No one alive knows that version of Islam.
I like that she validates your questions (which is a precious thing to come across in convos like these) and thinks it through and responds with respect. Fair exchanges like this are a gem honestly. If our conversations with all Muslims were like this it would be beautiful
I’ve heard Muslims ask for people to be open minded regarding their beliefs more times than I can count, but ironically they tend to be a very close-minded group.
On another note, I really like your new intro & outro. 😃👍🏼
we're not close minded
@@AC-mp7cx All Muslims I’ve known personally are very close-minded and, as a general rule, the group overall is close-minded. That of course doesn’t include EVERYONE, but religious people as a whole-especially Muslims I’ve known, talked to, seen online (the Dawah gang for instance),etc.-are close-minded.
@@AC-mp7cx Muslims just practice the art of reinterpretation which is just being closed minded! 🤷🏽♂️
The main reason why people leave Islam is because they start to research it to be better Muslims and then realise that things just don't make sense... You can't fit a square peg into a round hole which is why they are many issues in all religions
@@Lepri11 I disagree
@@BrillGirl82 how are they closeminded
Quranism is usually the last step before apostasy.
You are damn right !!!
I agree
Rachel came across as a thoughtful, respectable woman. I didn’t agree with her interpretations of parts of Islam but I think she has a right to believe what she wants. I very much doubt that she would cause or wish harm to others, even “non-believers”.
Do you know how violence is the Quran ? Are you aware the massacre of 130 young Frenches, decapitated in Paris ?
@@tyh3120 Yes, these crimes are despicable. But they are committed by the few. The vast majority of Muslims don’t commit such crimes and condemn such acts.
The Old Testament contains a lot of violence but again, most Christians are peace loving.
Personally, I don’t believe there is a god and put my trust in humanity.
@@marcouno4118 I am deleted all the time. What for to quit the evil, but be afraid? In an Islamic country, your 9 years old girl will be married or taken by force. If you have a beautiful wife, she will be taken away, by an Islamic prophet or Calife.....If you a non- Muslim, you will pay second citizen taxes. If you are killed, it’s not a problem!
@@tyh3120 I fully agree with you. I strongly object to the rules that you stated. But not all people who follow Islam are bad people. They will ignore the controversial aspects and follow the commendable elements such as giving to charity, being kind to parents etc.
@@marcouno4118 You are not right! When you are educated in an evil sect, what you consider as normal, is not normal for them. That’s why this apostate has to mask himself, for his life is in risk. In an Islamic country, no one will speak up for a non- Muslim. Who can come after the Christ, but the Antichrist? It’s Islam+ Communism. Europe will be Muslim; USA, Communist. You will suffer tremendously.
Just teaching children about hell is sufficient to reject religion.
This is a sane, civilized and intelligent interaction between two cultured human beings with different takes on a particular religion. Interesting.
I agree. This shud be the way. Not insults from ex muslims and muslims alike to eachother. Like the english say, to each his own. Am never gonna be punished for the sins and crimes of another so why be worried.
Mr Aladdin, the questions you asked were great... I really like your channel - I'm your new subscriber 👍
As am I.well presented discussion.
She says she grew up with science but buys into the hucksterism that is the "scientific miracles" argument?
"grass is greener on the other side" people always get attracted to unknown, even if they were born in best condition.
Christian here. Maybe my sources are unreliable, but it's pretty miraculous to realize Iron came from outside the solar system, or to know the exact period, proportionally, that the earth was created after the creation of the Universe, or too describe embryology in a more detailed way as an illiterate 7th century guy compared to 16th century scientists.
@@Slavaisusukhrystu Quran (God) only claims God "sent down" iron, not that it came from space. Why is God vague and why do humans step in and assign meaning to a phrase said by God when he is vague?
I have a feeling as if this is an undercover person, these are not genuine reasons to join Islam, they are ridiculous and weary from being debunked millions of times.
Looking forward to this one! Rachel seemed like a down to earth and reasonable person so I'm very interested about what she has to say.
It seems she's currently going through the process of elimination that most of us ex Muslims went through so it's interesting to see what point in her journey she's at
sorry, should've clarified! this is a snippet from the livestream, not the next conversation, though that will definitely come soon
@@ApostateAladdin ah gotcha! She was awesome regardless. Quite level headed so it'll be an interesting rewatch regardless
@@thenun1846 she was nice, but that doesnt change the fact she knows little about islam.
@@MrBlef666 lol everyone's a critic 🤷🏻♀️ I'd say that I know a fair amount but definitely don't agree with everything, which is why I explored several different corners of Islam before arriving at Quranism a little while back, after which I continued to read, discuss, and learn. Participating in the Livestream was part of that process.
@@CreatrixVixen it seems like you are connecting the dots and uncovering the truth. I hope you share your journey with us.
I can't wait for the whole episode to be uploaded. The lady at least has kept her critical or reasonable mind. Loved the discussion.
The stream is already up! The previous video. But Rachel is coming back soon
@@ApostateAladdin Oh! Cool.
WITH OUT LIES ISLAM DIES
Very respectful conversation.
Poor woman is skating on thin ice.
Looks like she's making up her own religion
Just like everyone else who practices a religion! Everyone cherry-picks and gives different significance to the various practices and tenets of their sect of their religion!
Actually I also temted to be a "quranist" muslim as my last resort before leaving islam all together. By that I at least was able to get rid of all the insane teachings found in sahih hadiths; but still I was not able to reconcile why the so called perfect book for all times would order me to segragate people based on their beliefs or to kill them if they were unlucky to be classified as 'ppl of the book'.
The verse allowing a man to beat his wives also didn't sit with me well. The justifications for it sounded totally mad considering I have seen more men that would deserve a.slap from their wives than the other way round.
Unfortunately i went down the quranist path for a day or two but couldn't justify it, so I ended up where i am now.. it's very difficult to reconcile everything
The Quran is the Arabic Gospel, then corrupted by the Califes of contradictory doctrines so as to confuse you. Check Quran 19/33-34
Abdullah, that's utter IGNORANCE.
@Uzair ibn Allah
Exactly! That's the point. As i rejected hadiths to get rid of the insane teachings, then this was the problem I encountered- how am I going to interpret the quran if I cutt it off from its context which is stated in hadiths... what about praying if 5 as the number of daily prayers is stated in hadiths obly... I figured it out. Islam doesn't make sense and that's why I'm an ex-muslim now
@@carliemorales204
You used a very powerful word in a powerful way and yet you were not even able to name what you refer to?! Islam and its teachings are utter ignorance? The approach of quranists is utter ignorance?!
Kudos to you and Rachel! I remember, when people discussed ideas intelligently and respectfully, as you two did in this video. Let's bring it back.
Thank you Rachel for your kind acceptance to appear here. I came across this discussion by accident. Just would like to share some thoughts with both of you. I've been studying Islam for over 15 years also I'm a dealer/trader of all sorts of various Islamic texts (Arabic and English) etc as well. The journey for me was quite difficult and challenging - (by trying hard to put myself in a box, while my heart crying out to get out) especially when you choose a slightly different path - by being an insider and (internally) detached third party at the same time. What I came to realise over a period of time was that once you travel through many uncharted territories and paths you'll find that things are very different from what the followers and believers claims and upholds. The description of almost everything you know about the Quran and Islam or the prophet changes when you explore the areas/studies in this manner - a parallel route.
The existentz, the World- with all its Mysteries, all kinds of knowledge and Wisdom it contains, has much to offer. There is absolutely no need to worry and fret about any lack of what to believe. Just be Brave and Explore. One doesn't really need a religion to be Spiritually connected with God or gods or just To Be. As an Islamic scholar, I can tell you that, after knowing inside out of this religious path, I believe now, that one can learn a great deal of Positive Knowledge and Wisdom from various Philosophies and Other great religions of the world. There is absolutely no point in surrendering to just one Book or one whole idea - it simply doesn't work. The fact is that the Book can be Faulty once you learn a great deal about the Book. My friend who runs a Quranist Website realises now that he cannot maintain the same enthusiasm as before. He is tired. Because, at some point he surrendered to the realities and facts of life. The more you read and dig deeper your perception or the way you look at the Book and the religion as a whole will surely changes. Its about facing the facts academically- devoid of any attachments or emotions. One can find vast amount of knowledge out there inorder to walk a Path with Heart.
I remember once a husband came to see me seeking advice about re-marrying his wife whom he accidentally divorced - but regretted afterwards. According to Islam, if the man/husband divorces his wife - the wife must get married with another man, sleep with that man, and then- only when he divorces her, the previous husband can remarry her back. I adviced the man Not to do such Shameful things such as these - It is extremely disgraceful and demeaning to subject your wife through such shameful practices while the Faults is all yours (the man's). The wife is innocent, they have children, how can you even think about doing it. If this is the Kind of God you want to worship, go ahead and do it. Such a God who command Shameful things cannot be God. The Man got the point, Luckily. I adviced him to treat her well and good. He did exactly what I adviced him to do. So, my point is that People can do horrible things just by being blind to an ideology or by surrendering to something of which they have little or no knowledge of. I'll have continue in my position because of the vast number of following and people who depends upon me for guidance and support etc. But my Inner self - I'm an Outsider ! Totally. I've no idea of what I'll do In future. I've absolutely no Heart to continue like this. I practice Buddhist meditation too BTW !
Thank you for this thoughtful and detailed comment! Very interesting to hear your perspective. I agree that many religions have something valuable to teach us. Honestly I feel that at their core, all religions are essentially the same in their teachings of love, kindness, respect, forgiveness, empathy, etc. It's just in the details about how we conceptualize of the divine and our rules for day-to-day living that we differ.
How can you think about something which
you do not know? You may have read the
Bible, the Bhagavad-Gita, or other books in
which various erudite scholars have skillfully
described what God is, asserting this and
contradicting that; but as long as you do not
know the process of your own thinking, what
you think about God may be stupid and petty,
and generally it is.
- J KRISHNAMURTI, AS ONE IS
Cultures create religions but not the religious man. The religious man comes into being only when the mind rejects culture, which is the background, and is therefore free to find out what is true. ... Such a person is not an American, an Englishman, or a Hindu but a human being; he does not belong to any particular group, race, or culture and is therefore free to find out what is true, what is God. No culture helps man to find out what is true. Cultures only create organizations which bind man.
] KRISHNAMURTI, AS ONE IS
Learning about belief is the end of belief. When the mind is free of belief then it can look. It is belief, or disbelief, that binds; for disbelief and belief are the same: they are the opposite sides of the same coin.
J Krishnamurti, The Urgency Of Change
Mind is conditioned through culture, through
environment, through knowledge, through experience all of which is the movement of time, and thought is also a movement of time. Thus thought cannot possibly transform or free the mind from its conditioning, just as analysis cannot. The question is: can the mind observe this conditioning, this educated entity, without any movement? If you do it, then you will see that all sense of control, imitation, conformity, totally disappears.
] KRISHNAMURTI, MEETING LIFE
She was lovely to listen to. Very open minded and considerate. Islam would be much improved if more Muslims thought like her.
Aladdin you are great. I am very glad I have found your channel and have subscribed.
Rachel you are also great. IT is so refreshing to hear a calm and respectful conversation from both sides. I wish it was like this more often in the world
I've never heard a Muslim discuss these verses:-
Quran Surah 69 verse 44-46
And if Muhammad had made up about Us some [false] sayings,We would have seized him by the right hand;Then We would have cut from him the aorta.
(Shakir) Sahih al-Bukhari 4428 The Prophet in his ailment in which he died, used to CRY, “O Aishah! I still? feel the pain caused by the food I ate at Khaibar, and at this time, I feel as if my aorta is being cut from that poison.”
😳
I interpret those his lament the same way as you do. Muhammed knew all along that he was making up verses for his own benefit. He felt that God was finally punishing him for it.
@@annegreengables6367 also this verse is interesting.....
Galatians 1 v8
But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be under a curse.
We read Mohamed was under a curse for at least one year.
Just how were people supposed to know if Muhammad made up certain verses?? Spoiler alert: he or someone made the whole book up.
I've heard many scholars discuss the incident about Muhammad's death by poison. they always gave the opinion that muhammad was martyred. and martyrdom is the greatest reward for Muslims. yes, that's their reason when discussing the end of Muhammad's history.
i became for a while quranist before finally left.
Same here.
Quranists are a weird bunch. They always complain about how Sunnis disagree on so many issues, but at the same time you can’t find 3 Quranists that agree on the fundamentals.
I don't understand Quranist either, it's a pledge to disconnect the Quran from the Hadith. Which makes no sense since the Quran needs context and tells us " You must follow Momo" . It's a 2 for 1 package. And only converts can get away with it tbh.
She is a very very nice lady. But im afraid she is not an as critical thinker as she holds her self to be!
Apostate Aladdin is a very smart journalist. I really appreciate your job!
I enjoyed the vid! You had excellent questions and Rachel was very honest and respectful. I don’t agree with her interpretation of many things and her deductions from her personal experiences, but to me she seems to be reforming islam to smth much peaceful than what it ever was, and that I support fully. Thanks you both, and the cat is adorable
Just the beginning of this makes me feel sorry for her, can’t wait to watch all of it
It's painful to watch
AA i’m a fan of your work and thank you for inviting her, she’s really intelligent, curious and open to discuss both sides instead of retaliating based on emotion. Love for all muslims because everyone is just looking for the truth at the end of the day ♥️
I'm excited for this one
Im not about dunking on people at all but a muslim femonist is the craziest oxymoron ive heard in a while. Holy shit
Wait till you hear about people talking about judeochristian values.
I do find it interesting the... to put it bluntly arrogance of convert quranists. Like, the idea that you have only just found this religion, don't even speak the language of the founding book (let alone speak it as a native language), and yet hold that you understand the religion's true meaning better than the entire Muslim world. It's frankly mind boggling.
At least when one is raised in the religion, retreating to quranism can be seen as a defense mechanism to reduce the cognitive dissonance between one's religion and one's values. I think it's telling how many comments there are here that are former quranists who are now ex-muslims, and that I couldn't see any comments by _current_ quranists.
@@aiya5777 I'm not sure how that's a relevant reply to anything in my comment. Perhaps such a sentiment would be better as its own comment on the video, rather than as a non-sequitur on another's comment?
@@aiya5777 Not relevant to my comment. Again, I recommend you make your own comment rather than bringing up some completely unrelated topic in a reply to someone else's comment.
How she remains a Muslim after this is way beyond me!
Thankfully, She's no more a muslim. Check her latest dialogue with apostate Alladin
I think she's following her own version of Islam.
She's going to leave the more she finds out.
Praying she leaves.
Without lies Islam dies
I also feel she is dellusioned and makes stuff up about Islam. In fact she comes up with many assumptions that are not backed up by the Quaran itself.
Anyways, interesting to see that for people who are in search of a suitable and easy to follow world view Islam seems to come handy. It gives clear guidelines of what is haram and halal and makes people feel they are on the right side.
Idk why I just can't take her arguments and opinions seriously. Tbh they don't make any sense to me
How can you know that if you don't look?
Hi Raj Vlogs, I don't remember seeing you in the comments on the Livestream - were you there for it? If not, I'd encourage you to watch the upload once it's released and wait to pass judgement until afterwards. Will be interested to see what you think! 😊
@Rachel Haydon Hi there ! Well I was not a part of the livestream but I did see it later .
From what I saw , you think of yourself as a rational human who is driven by thought. You liked to analyse and then make a move . If so , how come you Changed your religion (pretty big move ) looking past the atrocities of the religion.
Now here u might say that that you follow only and only quran but then too , that HOLY text itself has so many loopholes.
U were trying to defend the fact that it allows men to beat women by saying that women are more tolerant!!
What ! Here u made a massive level generalization which is incredibly demeaning to men . Patience and tolerance are not gender specific qualities ( in my opinion) .
Furthermore , the the text also openly looks condems the bery existence of Jews and Christians ( disbelievers) . It promotes slavery , sex slavery and is basically an emotional parody of a warlord . There are literally so many points to disagree with.
It's literally beyond me that how u looked past everything and changed your religion by thinking of it as a liberating move .
P.S. I totally understand that people are entitled to have their own opinions. She or anyone else can believe in anything and one should not disrespect.
Given that, I can too have an opinion and criticise someone else's opinion ( without demeaning them) and that is also okay . I've tried my best to not offend anyone but if this arhi still feels offensive , I can't really do anything about it.
Much love ❤️
@@Timothee_022 Hi Raj, thanks for replying! Yep sounds like you did have a chance to see it, wow good for you for watching the whole thing. A couple points you raised are ones we didn't talk about and we can discuss them in the comments if you like, but please know first that I'm not here to convince you of anything, just here to share my perspective. What you said about it being ok to have different opinions is something I agree with 100% and actually something I said in the Livestream at least once 😁
As to the verse about wife beating, it sounds like you might have misunderstood me - I don't think I said that women are more tolerant in relation to that (I'll have to wait for the video to premiere and go back to see exactly what was said) but I do remember saying that for things like the promise of what's to come in the afterlife, men tend to be more visual creatures so needed more overt descriptions to convince them, while women might be able to fill in the gaps on their own. Are these generalizations? Yes. But can a text have personalized instructions for every person who will ever exist on Earth for all eternity? No. Therefore I have to assume that it was written with general trends in mind - written to address the majority of followers.
Finally, even though this wasn't part of the Livestream, I will quickly comment on what you said about condemning other religions. I personally don't have a problem with what any other human chooses to believe (unless their beliefs take away rights from someone else). I was asked in the Livestream whether I think "unbelievers" have a chance at divide forgiveness and without hesitation I said "yes". To my knowledge, every religion in existence believes that it's the correct path, so this seems to be more of an issue you might have with organized religion as a whole rather than Islam in particular.
Thanks for the discussion!
@@CreatrixVixen Thanks Rachel for your detailed answers. I won't bother you with any questions here but I am looking forward to another discussion between the two of you. It is such a nice change to so many toxic discussions 🙂
Racheal is having her own version of Islam. The more she seeks truth through logical thinking- she will get answers unfold.
I hope there is a lot of muslims like Rachel. She seems like a very reflected and intelligent person in touch with her humanity. I may be wrong but Koranists seems to be closer to humanism just like northern European/scandinavian Christians.
Yeah I agree.... she is tend to be like kind of humanist muslim... and for me that's okay
@@ARKAN9765 is there something called humanist muslim
For sure. Most of the issues with islam today are based on Hadith
This woman is clearly NOT a muslim(a).
She has her own concocted religion.
Muslims have their own concocted versions and interpretations just like all religions😂😂😂
This was very interesting and insightful!
18:11 made me chuckle , that's a sign you need to revisit your beliefs they're due for an evaluation
Nice convo,...so she is not "Quran only" ..she is "Quran and modern Tafsir" instead of "Quran and classic Tafsir"
Great questions asked mate. I could see that they stimulated some thinking and I hope Rachel reflects on those questions without the filter of faith and is completely honest and transparent with herself.
By listening to Rachel, it seems that she interprets Islam her own way and follows it how she wants to, which seems to be in a less extreme, liberal and peaceful light. However, her version of Islam, is not Islam.
Exactly.
What terrifies me the most is not the Evil, but the tolerance of the Evil by the “ good “ people. Men will suffer tremendously.
SO SAD THAT THIS WOMAN SEEMS TO BE VERY SMART YET BRAINWASHED NOT TO SEE ISLAM IS BAD.
I like civil discourse. And rachel dd a good job with knowledge she had. If there anything hv learnt from learning theology is that no religion nor book. Can be taken just as is without context and understanding. But the fundamentals are simply understood.
Good questions Aladdin .. I am so sad to see Rachel has to defend her faith. Very sad very sad ...I am sure in course of time she will come to know the truth
It's good to see a Muslim actually think with their brain, take the time to reconsider their beliefs, and being sincere like her.
So basically muslims are stuck in translation and interpretation of their holy book and there is no consensus of what is meant among the umma.
Good job prophet Mo and Allah for making this miracle happen 👏🏽
My friend, this was a great video, I loved your questions.
If I may offer a suggestion, and I realize this is an older video so no offense intended if this isn't relevant any more.
Please allow for some breathing room after your fantastic questions, allow the person to really think about what you just asked and they may be forced to explain something they never have before.
Thanks again for your great video and questions!
Next step is Apostate. Good luck with your search for the truth.
I like her. She is a good-hearted cherry picker who wants to see the best sweetness in her chosen religion.
Does she know that she can not be friends with non-muslims as per quran 3:28 ?
Rachel you seem very thoughtful, intelligent, and open minded. You should check out the writings of Swami Vivekananda.
From one stupid ideology to another? Why can't she go back to being the atheist she was?
I just saw she left Islam. Just watched the interview or part so far and just wanted to say I knew she'd leave. She was much to feminist and modern, when she couldn't come up with a good reason why women are treated badly in Islam in present day, and just said she could not answer, I knew she'd leave. She'd said several times many western feminist ideas and I knew she'd see the light
It's my first time seeing such a calm and respectful discussion about islam between a muslim and an ex muslim, great job to you Aladin and Rachel
@user-rf8ts2he2g exactly, and since she rejects the hadeeth then how did she know how to do wodow or how to pray or How many rukaa should she do in each prayer or how to do Hajj ? All of these are not mentioned in details in the Quran only mentioned in the Hadeeth . I think She’s hiding, under the ( Quranik )banner so she will be able to dodge some embarrassing questions ( like for example Aisha’s age, and apostasy sharia sentence ) and so she will not be called a cherry picker.
16:20 if there are certain things that cannot be understood fully or with certainty, then why did alla say this is his last message? Was alla incompetent in his ability to pass on a full message? Did he just get bored and give up? Or was this alla's way of preventing future humans from joining other (better) god-clubs outside ixlam?
Because only Allah (SWT) knows about all things so to share knowledge about some things contradicts him being all wise
Wish you asked her about the miracles aspect-+that's the one that gets argued the most and is what's keeping me on the fence.
Love you both. Let's keep the dialogue going.
She is hands down the most sincere courages person i have seen online. Rachel i am a fan!!!
It seems she is trying to fit her idea of what Islam should be, rather then accept what Islam is - a mess!
She's leaving Islam soon.
You are a prophet, she just did. Check her latest chat with Apostate Alladin.
@@adewaleadaja7287 haha, thanks. We all know; without lies, Islam dies. It was just a matter of time. I'm happy for her. I'll check it out. 👍🏾
"I'll go back and check"
"I'll go back and check"
"I'll go back and check"
Yeah, when you actually ever do go back and check, you won't be a quranist any more. Not knowing is an integral part of faith. ixlam in fact survives on those who say "I don't know, I'll have to check" but never do.
Exactly
Exactly.
It's a false assumption that Qur'an needs context from external sources. Qur'anic injunctions are repeated in several different ways, so it provides its own context.
Watched all of it 31:36
A charming and honest woman, but one who was lost before Islam and remains very much so within Islam. What we have here is a typical believer who creates her own mini-version of a religion and then spends much of her time convincing herself she has found comfort and truth. A tap with a small stick? And she said 'demeaning' and she was right. Though of course there is no such thing as a punishment 'beating' with a twig! No feminist would cover up her hair, accept a demeaning twig-punishment or accept three other wives. For goodness' sake, madam, wake up!
3:50 - but isnt the quran without the hadiths like lacking context? Sorry idk, i just heard its the case...
yes, it would be- if we can be sure that the Hadiths are accurate and authentic. however, the main reason people that don’t follow them don’t is because they don’t believe they are accurate or authentic- they were gathered after Mohammed's death, lots of Hadiths have been chucked out due to inaccuracies so why not others, they can easily contain human error and be influenced by particular people who could even lie... I'm not Muslim or anything I'm just explaining what I have heard.
Jeez, this was painful to watch. I feel bad for her because I was once in her shoes, where I mentally bent over backwards to make sense of Islam. But just like her, she's not able to arriva coherent answer to the pressing questions. In the end I just had to conclude Islam is not perfect or evil, but merely just an outdated product of its time that brings more confusion and backwardness
Sunan ibn majah vol 3 book 9 hadith 1918
It was narrated from 'Abdullah bin 'Amr: that the Prophet said: “When anyone of you gets a new wife, a servant, or an animal, let him take hold of the forelock and say: Allahumma inni as`aluka min khayriha wa khayri ma jubilat 'alaihi, wa 'audhu bika min sharriha wa sharri ma jubilat `alaih (O Allah, I ask You for the goodness within her and the goodness that she is inclined towards, and I seek refuge with you from the evil to which she is inclined).' ”
We need to challenge Muslim women who say Islam is fair to women.....
@@primeminister1040 everything
Rachelslam, a new religion😂
😂😂😂😂
Her logical things about islam is “illogical “...
No offense but this is not that relevant, the lady chose to make her own islam.....islam is not her point of view, it is what the quran the hadith and the scholar say, and this is soooo sugarcoating. Thank for the pleasant video though, respectfull dialogue is great but.....i miss something at the end
Allowing for free interpretation of the scriptures of any ancient religion (and therefore neglecting their worse parts) is a must for trying to take progressive takeaways from them. They were born in a radically different context to today's world, and no actual law remains the same through decades, let along through centuries or millenia.
However, acknowledging the contextual nature of any religion scriptures contradicts the dogmas of them being "the words of God" and therefore their status as "absolute truth".
This in turn takes away the mistical appeal of religion x as the the "real one" and of their followers as "those in the right path".
I think that everyone should be allowed to extract wisdom from all sources from all times and places, both mistical and non-mistical, and use that wisdom to live purposeful lives, being kind, growing and helping others to grow along the way. Sadly, since that is against the dynamics that make religions powerful domination tools, any insider taking such an attitude will be the target of those in control of the "right" interpretation.
You can't really advocate for a religion that you don't agree with wholeheartedly, converts have the privilege of picking and choosing what they like about the religion without being pressured or shamed for rejecting certain aspects
Her opening sentence about being raised on science, reasoning and questioning which she claims she still does, shows that she actually doesn't do that. If she did, she would never have become a Muslim, because Islam's so called scientific miracles are anything but! You can clearly see that she was unable to answer the question of how to understand the Quran if she doesn't follow the Hadiths, underlining my point that she has not really analysed Islam from an objective, critical perspective, but has simply bought whatever nonsense she was told or read about.
At around 29:50 she says that she just wishes that people could work together and get along and be open minded about people who have different beliefs. Yet, the Quran is quite clear about it's views regarding Disbelievers/Non-Muslims, namely Jews, Christians - People of the Book, and Polytheists.
For example, in Quran 98:6 they are described as ''the worst of creatures' who will be in the fire of hell forever. The tafsir explains that they are Disbelievers for rejecting Muhammad as a ''prophet'' and that they are worse than even animals because animals can't reason whereas they can, yet they choose to not believe in Muhammad. There are numerous verses within the Quran that speak in a derogatory manner, to put it very mildly, about Jews, Christians and Polytheists, with special emphasise on Jews, who are portrayed as the villains in Islam. Islam is inherently antisemitic, which is one of the core tenets of Islam. If one was to remove every antisemitic verse in the Quran and Sunnah, the religion of Islam would implode.
Her statement at around 29:50 can only mean one of two things , she either doesn't really understand what the Quran teaches about Disbelievers/Non-Muslims, or she does, and she is simply saying nice saccharine comments to make it seem that Islam is really just misinterpreted/misunderstood, and that it is really a lovey-dovey, peaceful, tolerant and benign religion.
I get the impression that she clearly took the Shahada without fully understanding what she was getting into, but she must have felt that it sort of made sense and satisfied her need for meaning in life and gave her a sense of belonging/community, something which could be said of any religion really.
In a follow up video at the very beginning of the video, which I haven't watched in full, she admits that she actually decided to leave Islam, which just proves my point about her not fully understanding what she was getting into.
👍🏼👍🏼👏🏼👏🏼
Rachel will condamn freedom , what's freedom making Muslim women to wear Hijab or Niqab or Burka like Rachel herself wearing one...
It's not about the religion or individual, it's about the ideology. Religion is the left over from the INFANCY of our INTELLIGENCE, it will fade away as we adopt reason and science...once you reject the hadiths, you are a mile away from leaving the religion or creating a new Islam. That's not the Islam the beduins left,,,she seem a nice person,sure she will leave it as she acquire knowledge,,,, the search for meaning is a process,,the Qur'an itself still supports the things in hadiths she rejects. I can only say,she is practicing a personal religion,not the one from Arabia. We can't massage the truth...
Alladin I feel your a brilliant person with very high iq
She seems very nice person but easily persuadable
Her face expressions tell a lot
👏🙂
Very interesting
Rachel uses the Yahiya Emerick translation/annotation. It quotes "Background on verses 4-5: Ubayy ibn K'ab said to the Prophet, "After the verses in the Chapter of the Cow conceming the waiting period were revealed, some people in Medina said that there were still some women whose waiting periods were not mentioned, specifically the old, the young and the pregnant (who might be left widows before their baby is bom)." This passage was revealed in response. (Asbab ul-Nuzul)
Now as for those women who are too old to menstruate or who don't have it for other reasons,
their waiting period, to dispel any doubts, is three months."
So first it Quotes the traditional Asbab -ul-Nuzul (i.e. the Wahidi tafsir on Quranx and other sources which specifically mentions "the old, the young" but the translation then states "or don't have it for other reasons".
Fact remains that the Quran in Q65:4 explicitly mentions the response to questions about prepubescent brides who have had intercourse. Why not ask Rachel about the morality of divorcing prepubescents who have had intercourse?
Simple: because Rachel wouldn't think that's moral. If you mean i should bring it up to alert her of the presence of this verse and its meaning, maybe. But I shouldn't "ask" her about the morality of it because i already know she thinks it's immoral. I'm not trying to ambush her
@@ApostateAladdin How do you know she thinks its immoral? It is evident she distances herself from salafism and hadiths, but she may not have noticed or even think it was not immoral in that time. I do see you do not want to confront or ambush though and I can imagine.. But the reason I bring it up is that she specifically mentions that Quran/version and it mentions the tradition and then tries to talk around it/make the issue disappear...
@@ohana_is_family when did I try to talk around anything to do with prepubescent brides? Perhaps my memory is failing me, but I don't remember having discussed that during this video. For the record, child marriage is always wrong. I don't accept the "but Aïcha was very mature" line or anything resembling it.
@@CreatrixVixen thanks for your feedback. I did not say you claimed anything about child marriage. Activism against child-marriage is my topic, so I could not help noticing you recommend a translation/commentary that tries to reduce the severity of 65:4. Do you have an opinion on Q65:4 's meaning and this translation exegesis, that you are willing to share?
@@ohana_is_family I don't see this translation as trying to reduce the severity of child marriage. I see it as trying to provide a translation of old Arabic in modern English so that the text is more accessible to us. I don't see it taking a stance on the issue at all, merely providing an explanation of terms. I think the author set out to give his opinion on the meaning of each word (and how they fit together), not the morality or legitimacy of the message.
Have a strong feeling, Rachael is close to becoming an ex, but is probably holding on to threads of faith.
She doesn't seem convinced or convincing, noq koran, soon it will be, im an ex Muslim 😂
She's a sweetheart
I screamed my lungs out when I heard her mention "because of the scientific miracles in the Quran" 😄
And then she tries to re-interpret Islam by saying it's okay for women to lead prayers, even when the group comprises men.
What I find that Islam replaces your culture and indenity. To be critical doubtful of your religion now becomes a critical attack on culture and identity - which will reflect on friends, family and Islamic society.
Denial, ignorance, and selective acception is easier to live with rather then face and swallow the facts that can destroy your safe illusion of something you are a part of!
Being a quranist can be like setting up a noose for yourself everytime.
In my opinion claiming to be Quanik It’s Muslim’s a way to weasel out of the embarrassing questions about their religion.
A septum ring? Not sure if haram or not...
Being a Quranist is a great way to either become an extremist or a nonbeliever. Cause the Quran is incoherent and extreme
Yikes....she seems totally clueless
Epic Hypocrisy by the Lady
Sadly intelligent woman with no understanding, and no valuable or truthful answers to all the question posed to her.
Check out her subsequent discussions on this channel.
I think all the process of revelation to every prophet is the same. It's a divine inspiration. God as the source of wisdom, justice and knowledge is the source of inspiration/Revelation to the prophet. As the source of wisdom, justice, knowledge, God is not bound by space and time. His wisdom, His justice, His knowledge is pure, not mixed with culture and language at any time and place. Wisdom is what every prophet strives to access to. Angels act as intermediaries between God and humans, because God is so pure that can’t be reached by the human spirit that is bound by a physical body on earth. The angel who brought that pure wisdom and justice, then put that wisdom into the soul (Ruh) of the prophet. When the Revelation enters the spirit (Ruh) of the prophet, the wisdom uses the language and culture that the prophet has. So that the Revelation can be conveyed and understood by his people. So, it is not surprising that Revelation is tied to the level of knowledge and culture prevailing at the time of the prophet. What Muslims need to seek from every Revelation is its essence, the wisdom that comes with that Revelation. Don't be attached to words and culture that cover its essence. Is it justice, or forgiveness, or compassion, or courage, or wisdom, or peace, or salvation, etc. Today every Muslim needs to seek the essence of every Revelation and apply it to modern life.
LoL, she think she knows Islam better then Mohammed and scholars?
U man ur a silent but took her down well good man