WEIRDEST Toyota in the WORLD?? (Part 3 - TEMP Gauge STILL BROKEN?)
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- Опубліковано 10 лют 2025
- Now that the Possessed Toyota Avalon big ghost has been "exorcised", let's take it on another test drive to make sure EVERYTHING functions normally.
I noticed a loud HISSING sound under the hood...taking a closer look at the vacuum lines revealed another small CAN OF WORMS!
Finally on the test drive, I discover the Temp Gauge is now stuck PEGGED LOW below COLD all the time! Guess we're not quite done with this Crazy Toyota just yet...
The owner also sent me a more detailed history of the car...what some other shops and the Toyota Dealer MASTER TECH with 30+ years of experience recommended will BLOW YOUR MIND!
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Enjoy!
Ivan
“If your wondering why it took me 3 hours to find a bad ground… well, no one else could find it.” Gold! I’ve been in that position before. No one really understands how tricky these simple things can be😂
OSCILLATING TEMP GAUGE: Your test light is an incandescent bulb, which is a non-linear resistor. In other words, the test light resistance was changing, causing the temp gauge in the car to oscillate up & down. Incandescent bulbs are more non-linear at low power (as when you replaced the temp sensor with your test light) than at full brightness, but they are still non-linear at full brightness, you just don't notice it. A couple centuries ago, I built a transistor oscillator circuit using an incandescent bulb in the feedback circuit. What takes my breath away is, you didn't even know this, pushed past the test light data, & used the decade box, which clarified the situation. Amazing!!!!!
And yet after knowing a different sender had been put in which changed the needle reading he doesn't confirm the proper resistance range or change back to factory spec sender. Starts muttering about compromised circuitry and decides to try to redesign the circuit. After showing that lower resistance moves the needle higher proceeds to add a parallel resistance that keeps the resistance higher and the needle lower. I was shaking my head. Ivan has skills but it just shows how anyone can get stuck inside the box.
Growing up, our area had a one-man shop similar to PHAD. I always wondered why there were so many cars at this place of business until I needed him for a repair. The owner, Bruce, was our version of Ivan, but he has long since retired, and the new shop owner he sold it to, while good, is nowhere as gifted. Loving this series on the "Weird Toyota"
I suspect that constant pegging of the temp gauge caused the needle to be rotated on the shaft. Clue was how long it stayed below C. May have been able to pull cluster and recalibrate needle position.
I'm surprised Ivan didn't dig into that since it needs to come out to replace the "P" light in the dash anyway. If that was my car, I'd want that "P" light fixed. That car is well worth the trouble.
Exactly my train of thought. I hope Ivan does look into this when he checks the bulbs.
@@quattroheadthere's a chance that the engine grounding issue sent current through the temp gauge wire and damaged the cluster. So he might have to replace the gauge motor inside the cluster before it will work normally again.
@@Runco990 depends on the car. I've only worked on GM gauge clusters, but they use magnetic stepper motors. Either way you could try and calibrate it but it might not return to cold.
@@Runco990it's a stepper motor.
I would put a tiny piece of red pinstripe on the gauge as a reminder I would definitely forget. Or get a digital off of amazon for monitoring
alternative spelling of off of is from.
There's no question that the three hours was worth doing because it led you directly to the cause !!! what a lot of people don't understand is at the 5 volts these ecm's and other modules operate at weak or bad ground issues can really confuse the systems.....as you have proved many times by finding green crusty's that change the resistance seen by the modules...looking forward to your next challenge...Karl from eastern Canada
This is one of the most impressive electrical diagnostics I have ever seen. The way you used two lights to figure out if it was the supply or control side, and show the common point with the fuel fuel relay to the ecu gnd... well done. I solved a similar problem on a processing plant a few years back where voltage would lift proportional to load from a bad ground. After I tighted a single screw terminal to fix the plant... they joked how I probably got paid $1000 to screw in one wire, but I told them screwing it in was free, knowing what to screw in was $$$$.
Hi Ivan, in the 80's I was working on cars out of my garage like you. I got this job for a Chevy to rebuild the carburetor. I did that, waited till the next morning to test it to see if the choke worked. It would not start! I thought I had done something to the engine. I called the owner and explained what was up. he told me to look in the glove compartment for all the tow receipts and repairs. literally a stack that was at least 1 inch high! everything from the carb, fuel pump, gas tank cleaning and other stuff. I closely looked at all of them then started checking and found there was no receipt for the ignition system just tune up stuff. I checked to see if there was spark from the HEI distributer (no spark), I checked the resistance to the ignition assembly to the reluctor and found it had a wire broken inside the insulation that would make contact most of the time, if you pulled on the wire it would open up. I installed a new part and it was repaired.
the owner had hundreds of dollars invested in this over a few of years.
Rich
Years ago I took my '78 Pontiac Trans Am to the hand wand car wash and washed the engine. I then drove 30 miles to another town to visit a cousin. The car quit in front of his house. Although it was Sunday we persuaded the owner of the local garage to open his doors so I could obtain a new ignition module. While I worked replacing it my cousin, intrigued by the GM distributor cap design (dry coil in cap), asked if he could take the cap apart. Sure I said. He removed the coil cover and dumped out several ounces of water. So, another great diagnosis.
I would put a vacuum pump on the vacuum advance which would move the reluctor enough for the wires to make contact. Either that or tug slightly on the reluctor wires. The green one always broke. The good old days.
HEI distributors were known for this, while it wasn't widespread it was inherent of the design, when a properly running engine stalls for no reason check the distributor internal wiring. Most of the stuff I worked on was GM with HEI, of the hundreds I worked on I remember 4 with this problem. I was introduced to diagnosing this problem when I was 15, my brother had a 1980 Camaro that had the problem and my auto shop teacher walked me through how to diagnose it, he was only going by my description of the problem, and he was 100% right. But he wasn't only an auto shop teacher, he was also the service manager of the local Oldsmobile dealership and was truly a 30+ year ASE certified master technician.
Ivan, as an auto tech who has worked at dealerships for a very long time… The dealership I work at now takes the time to diagnose vehicle issues thoroughly and are pretty accurate when it comes to recommending a necessary repair. I pride myself on diagnosing customer concerns correctly…. So when I see so many dealerships misdiagnose customer concerns, that actually hurts to see my fellow techs not take the time to go over proper step by step diagnostics to trace down the cause or concern, whether it be electrical or mechanical.
My brotha Ivan you absolutely FASCINATE me when you diagnose vehicle concerns! You TRULY INSPIRE me bro!!! Keep up the GOOD WORK!!!
" Why?, Well, No one else could fix it " - That ladies and gentlemen, is why a good mechanic is priceless like Ivan. Diagnostics before peek-a-boo touching/wrenching.
Seeing a relay clicking in the last video and going straight for grounds is a win for experience.
This reinforces my belief that the majority of dealers don't do a better job the Jim down at the corner shop. It is frustrating that the any mechanic would suggest the replacement of coils and injectors for a problem that screams of being something electrical. There is a logical methodical way to trouble shoot a problem and it requires different tools that most shops don't have a clue about.
The biggest problem is flat rate techs want to make hours and simply don't want to get involved in these types of issues.
Why break even when you can beat the book time on several jobs and take home a bigger check
A dealership is 1000% the worst place to take your vehicle
Jim at the corner shop wants return business and referral customers. The dealership knows they will always have work coming in, and they want those easy book jobs that they know they can beat and get extended smoke breaks or bigger checks. They don't care about the fix or the customer.
I wouldn’t be surprised that when the dealer tech’s run out of options they probably take it down to Jim’s auto shop, and discreetly ask for his diagnosis or repair work..
Temp gauge is a coil driven by supply voltage and the heat sensor, it is very simple cct, from what we see the gauge is good, the sensor is good so the only fault is the supply voltage, it look like a bad voltage drop down resistor or a bad voltage regulator ic , thank you Ivan we really enjoy the diagnostics and the way you explains what happen, this is the difference between hoax pox and real science,
Between you and Mr Eric O has broaden and enhanced my capabilities to just dig deeper, stay with the process. Thank you
Yes, Ivan & Eric have also increased my abilities to navigate around issues with my vehicles, Somewhat- I'm a 70 year old shade-tree mechanic and refuse to own any vehicle over the year 2000. After that year most vehicles start getting really complicated. And then you start to need a hi-dollar scanner- And here's where I would have problems- You must have the ability to read & understand the data retrieved from that scanner. Those squiggly lines displayed on Ivan's scanner mean something to him and he is able to draw important conclusions from just glancing at the screen- Me? Giving me a scanner would be like giving a gorilla a Fabergé Egg- neither would know what to do with it!
If they went into business together they would be the one stop solution to every auto problem
Yeah.. I've bought a lot of tools because of these guys.. Bore scope, oscilloscope and now two different powerful scan tools. :) ... and a lot of leads and back probes and piercing tools and amp clamps and pressure transducer and amp clamp mulitmeter.. etc. etc. lol.. I've stocked up on all the tools they use, and I haven't even gotten to use most of it yet.
@@calholli I'm very "old" school, I like vehicles where a tune up consists of new points, plugs, condenser, rotor & cap- & maybe wires. Of course most of those engines have carburetors which won't hold a tune very long. Later engines with fuel injection & serpentine belts were definitely a step in the right direction. Ah, The Good Old Days!
@@letstalkaboutit8254 There's still plenty of that around.. But I like to adapt to where the world is going.. You MUST have a scan tool and scope these days, or you're in the dark.
Does everyone remember their first time? 😂 Mine was diagnosing a dead fuel pump on my 1st car, a rotten 1981 Honda Accord. I didn't have a clue what was wrong when it suddenly became a crank no start one morning. I called my Uncle who lived 180miles away and asked him if he might have an idea. Over a number of phone calls (pre cell phone days) he talked me through some simple steps, like checking for fuel and spark. With his help I managed to diagnose a dead fuel pump. My mate kindly picked me up and drove me to the nearest scrapyard, 15 miles away where I quickly found another rusty Accord and removed the fuel pump. I paid the £5 asking price and a few hours later my car was running again. That was the start of my love affair with diagnosing and fixing my own vehicles.
Sucks nowadays that a similar used unit would go for about 60£.
I once got a great deal on a 1954 Bel Air back in the 1970's for a bad ground on the right rear tail lamp. Once I put the harness back together all was well. The previous owner had butchered the harness trying to "re-wire" the gremlins caused by back-feeding.
Goes to to show always double check the grounds
Ivan’s. diagnostic &. Troubleshooting. Skills. & patience. Are amazing. Another great repair 👍.
Mid 90's Toyotas are a nightmare of vacuum lines still have my 96 2.2l camry replace all frequently but do 1 at a time to make sure where they go😵💫
Awesome video as always, Ivan. For the repair on the solenoid, I use a small plastic tube (same diameter as the OEM) and a drill bit dipped in WD-40. First, I insert the drill bit into the broken piece, then slid the plastic tube over it and applied superglue or a special two-component adhesive to fill the cracks or gaps between the parts. The WD-40 (or any other grease) prevents the glue from sticking to the drill bit or blocking up the passage. Once the glue set, I removed the drill bit and carefully attach the vacuum line.
Letter at end shows yet again what a world class expert Ivan is.
Your inspiration to not giving up finding a solution & diagnosis prowess is to be greatly admired.,..
Ivan, as ever, you're "da man". Many Toyotas (including my own 1991 Celica) have a separate temperature sensor for the gauge. It never ceases to amaze me that you're the first one to properly diagnose the problem.
Ivan, a Maste Technician gets paid for his knowledge but DOES NOT mean he is any good at it. You in my opinion are without a doubt a Superior Master Technician and have yet to see on the Internet anybody with your extremely vast knowledge. Regards Dave in Guernsey, Channel Islands.
You must be a grandmaster of auto electronics, I think you demonstrated a splendid analysis to find and solve all the malfunctions 😊
LOL only 3 hours diagnostics the magic of editing , Awesome case study, in the past three year I have learned so much thank you !!!
Given the extensive backstory, I can completely understand why you took your time in the initial diagnosis, rather than immediately checking grounds. I can't believe all those other shops missed it.
A shame the owner wasn't willing to repair/replace the instrument cluster to get a properly working temp gauge, personally I wouldn't feel comfortable leaving it like that long term. Unless there's also an "idiot light" temp warning that can be commanded on by the ECM, in that case I'd consider the gauge to be more or less irrelevant.
Loved the letter from the customer. It sounded like the introduction in a horror story... Friday the 13th. Toyota Returns
I am almost willing to bet the original ground problem was caused by someone replacing the rear spark plugs.
It looks like the intake would have to be removed to get at them.
Taking a car to you from so far away is a tremendous compliment to you, Ivan! Another UA-cam automotive rock star is Keith DeFazio. I wonder where he'd be if he took his car to Scotty K? (Probably would have poured some lacquer thinner on his instrument cluster and sent him on his way.)
“No one else could find it” was the perfect response 🤣
Immediately the symptoms suggest a poor ground, you did mention that someone repaired a poor ground an it lasted about a day, that piqued my interest a bit and this was a well thought out logical approach and well done.
Its sad that there are so many inexperienced techs with many years in the field.
Great fix for the temp sensor Ivan…just a thought ..perhaps it might have been worthwhile to install an additional small red LED located discretely on the dash near the temp gauge that would light up if overheating occurs, being the gauge needle doesn’t reach the “H” mark ..the over temp LED alert cct would provide a visual signal for the driver ☝️
Vacuum line problems? You ain't seen nothing yet unless you've worked on a mid 80s GM with an Olds 307 Y motor in it.
I rarely if ever see him work on an older CCC GM carb car. It would be fun seeing him struggle with a ccc quadrajet though. I did tons of Y engines. Almost every one needed a complete carb tune as all the mixture, float and solenoid dwells were off, plus almost every evap purge valve was bad. I’d check every one when it came in regardless if there was a complaint or not.
Let me tell you. I had this 1987 Honda Accord with the old style carburetor before the PGM-Fi became standard. It was a cool old car, had the pop up headlights. BUt that thing was an absolute nightmare. It had vacuum lines everywhere, just google the diagram, It had like 30 something vacuum lines in the diagram, with these big vacuum boxes that had rows of vacuum ports on it. A very bad time for Honda's, some of the worst Honda engines in my humble opinion.
I will call your gm and raise you any early 1990s ford with brittle plastic vacuum lines.
Ok, so my 1975 C3 corvette not only has emission vacuum lines but also makes headlights and heater controls work… it’s pretty crazy. Maybe doesn’t trump the Ford brittle lines, but sure is up there…
FC RX7 is probably the worst I have ever seen. The vacuum lines are known as "the rats nest" from how many lines and solenoids they ran all over the place.
Well done Ivan, like you said before, without Alldata and going through wiring diagrams, this would could have become a true diaster and going in all directions. It takes a lot of patience to sort this out and come up with a common hypothesis. In todays world, everyone just wants to get things done fast. But like Eric O says, you have to slow down to go fast. You're going to spend the same amount of time fixing the issue but spend more money replacing other parts if you dont take the time to diagnose properly. Now on to the EVAP diagnosis and repair. Parts required? We'll see.
I would've gone right to wiggling grounds because I don't have regular access to service data and prob ended up not knowing what I fixed
As usual you diagnose, recreate the issue, then follow the path that the information leads you. Great diagnoses
Great work around for the temp gauge problem Ivan. The owner was smart to bring the car to you after hearing the repair history.
I was surprised u didn't u take out sending unit to see if it's OEM, cuz u usually do it on all ur other videos.. LoL but all in all grt video & Technics ur one of a kind 💯👍
A few days ago an appliance I previously repaired a few years ago failed a second time. Guess what? I had used those stupid crimps with the colored plastic shroud over the crimp area. They worked themselves loose even though I am very careful to pull on every crimp after making it so I know I must have (plus I use a ratcheting crimper set to the tightest setting that I am physically capable of handling). Just, no. Never use any kind of crimp with plastic over it unless you plan to solder it. You are totally right 😄
Crimp ring terminals and butt splices are used very successfully in industrial applications as well as high reliability applications such mil-spec and aerospace (usually solder splices are actually not allowed for these applications). The difference is the quality of the terminal and the crimper being used. You could try the TE 354940-1 crimper with some proper AMP or equivalent terminals. But a properly done solder splice is also fine, and cheaper in materials and tooling, for many applications.
@@robot5573 Yeah, I use connectors which take crimped bare metal terminals all the time (FIT, JST, etc. And I don't shell out $500-$1000 for the manufacturer crimpers either.). It seems to just be the stupid plastic shrouded ones that cause trouble. I think the plastic absorbs too much of the pressure with normal tools, not sure.
@@jessicav2031 I did have a "stupid plastic shrouded one" make a loose crimp one time (out of probably more than a thousand), but it was because the terminal was from a 10$ kit I got from Princess Auto.
Hi IVAN,this is a great series.I however have a different opinion on the temp repair.When i used to repair and dealt with temp issues 40 years ago, my go to fix was>A MECHANICAL TEMP GAUGE
I own a '99 Toyota corolla since new. The gauge never goes beyond mid scale. The only way I know that things are getting really hot is when the rad fan turns on , which is rare. A hot day in slow traffic. The factory repair manual only instructs how to test sensor resistance at given temps. That past. I always wondered if it was intended to be this way. Got a BlueDriver OBD so I could see what the actual temps would be. Temp gauge reaches mid scale at165-170 deg. Fairly steady driving at or below 100 kmh 183-185 deg. Rad fan turns on 213-214 deg. All the while temp stays at mid scale. Asked owners of '06 Oldsmobile, '07 Corolla , and saw a number of corollas on You Tube . All had temp gauges that went no further than mid scale. So what you see is probably normal. Relying on the cooling fan system to tell me things are getting hot is not my idea of engine temp monitoring. My theory is that the car companies figure that most owners would be complaining about the temp needle moving up and down all the time .
"No one else could find it....". 😂😂😂😂👏👏👏👏
Your planned approach to diagnosis and schematic reading skills have been on full display with this repair. Much more electronic trouble shooting than hands on mechanics. Absolutely one hell of a job my friend. Bravo and well done sir. If the owner is truly concerned about a more accurate temp gauge there is of course always the route of an adding a mechanical gauge.
I just do not like that fix for the temp gauge, if a component is partially failed it will completely fail and the workaround that was employed will show the temperature is good, while the heads warp and gaskets blow.
Well done Ivan, my initial guess and that's what it was without data was correct. Then I thought how far my skills and thought processes have come since I started watching you and Eric O amazing skills once again well done 👏
This one needs to be on a Best of PHAD.
11:06 I'm an old time diagnose guy, when I was a young fella an old timer said a phrase that stuck with me for life and on Many of occasion made me look a lot smarter than this farm boy was,, and that is " Son, the Ground is the life blood of your truck" I've worked on so many cars, trucks, boats and gold carts that had multiple other people change alternators, starters, blower motors, electric fuel pumps, bulbs and You get the idea, most were all caused from bad grounds. Impossible to prove but If that was my car I would have found that and likely before it wiped out the temp gauge, If It Did, I haven't gat past the noted timer.
That's right, John, and now that the computers are depending on a measly 5VDC Ref, and they are using crappy, thin, protein based mouse loving wire insulation, and green crusty prone plugs, grounds are even more important than in the old, simple days. The people that design these things live in a perfect, corrosion proof environment, and they think their designs live there too. 😮😢😢😢
This is one of my favorite multi part series! I’m doubtful any of the previous shops the owner took the car to even bothered to look at a wiring diagram. Can’t wait for the next one.
I'm telling you that mechanics think the electrical system is super complicated so they never see the tree for the forest, so to speak. That's why the poor ground was missed, that's why the actual water temp versus gauge temp correlation error was missed. The tendency is to view problems with too wide of a lens, or to get hyper focused on a single symptom. The water pump theory was a stab in the dark guess at something, anything, that could inconceivably cause the symptom (notice I said symptom singularly), but the fact of the matter is that there was a fairly significant and obvious electrical fault that is directly associated with the timing of this symptom starting. And guess what, the temperature gauge is electrical...
Throw your blinders in the trash, learn to recognize when symptoms are related, when they aren't, and when they possibly may be. Listen to the customer, have an open channel of communication with them. Often at the dealership level the "technician" only has whatever information the service writer took down. That is no way to handle intermittent or multi symptom faults.
The specialty auto electrical shop should be ashamed of themselves. Personally I was calling a poor ground from the start, as I commented on the previous video, only a loss of power or ground would have that fuel pump relay cycling on and off. My methodology would have been to test whether that relay was losing power or ground, easily done with a test light, then after determining a loss of ground, I'd study the electrical diagrams to find the common denominator. The PCM doesn't control the center display, so there is no reason to suspect that the PCM has lost the ability to ground side switch.
Was fortunate enough to repair an early '00 Rav4 that had same flickering engine light but ran poorly. It was caused by a failed ignition coil, IMO, spiking the computer. The diag was unplugging the coil - now it would run with a simple miss - no flickering light. I wonder what their strategy is. When this series began I thought you had a bad coil but the fact it ran well shot that theory.
Great series!
Thanks
Ive been MIA for a bit, but this 3 part video was very thorough and awesome Ivan! I learn so much from you!! Thank you!!
Awesome “fix” to save your customer a good amount of money on the actual repair to allow him to use his car safely. Sadly a lot of techs wouldn’t do this and would sell the permanent repair. Great job brother!!
God bless~
great case study. I'm inclined to agree that the temp needle got rotated and screwed up the calibration.
That temp gauge was interesting I noticed you have done that resistor repair in the past but I'm not quite clear on why it would work that way, maybe you could do a white board of knowledge diagram to explain that better incase I need to do a repair like that in the future, I don't want to replace parts or send the car out to another shop.
Fords do a gauge calibration, and many other tests, just by holding down ODO/trip and turning to KOEO, it sweeps all gauges and does a calibration. It saved my bacon when I had the clear cover off, somehow, the needle of my speedo got wrong side of stop pin. Moved it after taking it apart, and did a calibration. Good as new.
If you did not already know it, this should let you know you are a true unicorn when it comes to electrical diagnostician.
I hope the owner downloads this 3 part series on a thumb drive and gives it to the "auto electrical specialist" to watch so they can see how a real auto electrical specialist approaches an electrical problem. The recommendations from them are totally insane!
Then there is the 30 year mechanic at the dealership who "diagnosed" a mechanical problem for pretty obvious electrical issue. I would have more respect for both if they would have just admitted they could not figure out the problem. Along with the lack of expertise and patience you have I suspect there was also a "time" element involved. You admitted that it took you 3 hours to find a loose ground. I know NO shop that will spend more than an hour, if that, on diagnosis. So, after an hour without nailing down the true diagnosis they guessed at the issue instead of admitting they really could not figure out the issue. I kind of expect this from the dealership given how technicians get paid but the "auto electrical specialist" should be ashamed calling himself that. Come on dud, man up and tell the owner "I don't what is wrong with your car---we tried to figure it out but just could not nail it down, sorry."
You should install a temperature guage mounted on the dash
Love the creative resistor fix. Reminds me of my '94 Buick LeSabre that broke the tiny gauge security wires in the steering column. Measured the resistor on my Passkey, and headed to Radio Shack. $5 later, I had a permanent key simulator wired into the dash and never had another problem. I miss Radio Shack...
Hopefully the Avalon owner can find a donor cluster and get the gauge working again, that car was so clean that I'd want to have it all 100%. You never see leather seats that nice in a 20-year old GM or Ford product.
Hi Ivan watching your video’s with interest, as I live in the UK I could never bring my car to you for a diagnosis but still you have helped me so thank you for posting the video’s.
My car is a 2018 Nissan Xtrail I believe you call them Nissan rogue in the US, the first problem you saved me a lot of money on was when my car went nuts, driving and all the dash lights started flashing, short story self-diagnosed to be the alternator, new alternator fitted fault codes cleared, fixed running great.
Here in the UK Nissan DO NOT recommend that the CVT gearbox needs servicing listed as a none serviceable item no parts available only the NS3 oil at about $175 I had to send to US to obtain the Parts needed to service my gearbox which I have done so hopefully this will help its life span.
Keep the video’s coming love to watch, cheers Ivan.
Im looking forward for part 4 for EVAP diagnosis, because your Toyota EVAP diagnosis are great i watched the previous and also yesterday i watched the 2 years of parts canon diagnosis case study second time.😊
That was great ,I ran into issues like that but the positive of cables were making contact but not actually making contact good cleaning solved the issue
3 hours to properly diagnose the true problem seems reasonable to me. Especially after what the owner had previously went through. Unfortunate that the temperature gauge was fried due to the original issue. It has been a great case so far. Wondering what you will find on the evap system.
I am not sure if it might be easier to open the dash and reclock the gauge so it will be on the red if it overheats😊😮
On the temperature needle, why not try and take the needle off the physical temperature shaft, and Rotate the needle to where it should be for temperature.
Ivan, I admire your logical process's, I think you are quite good at it, I am learning a lot from you, thanks.
My 2000 Sienna has the same 1MZ-FE engine. Those engines are prone to sludge because it runs on the cool side. Normally, the needle is in the middle of the gauge. I can put the heater on high and watch the needle go back down to the first line going downhill. Many mechanics in Hawaii know this and recommend changing the more often to prevent sludge oil.
Your thermostat might be sticking open. My 02 Avalon did the same thing, and a new thermostat was the fix.
This video should be shown to junior techs as part of their training curriculum and especially the final segment where the "Master tech" picked water pump and the Auto sparkie expert wanted ignition coils and injectors replaced etc etc. By showing the new up and coming guys this kind of Data driven results - it will cement in their minds that Data driven repairs are always the way to go, there must be billions of dollars spent over the years of Parts cannon firing and still no fixes but your average owner/customer cops the bill. Good on ya Ivan, you are one of the best out there mate, there's a job here in Auckland if ya like, although we are coming into winter now haha 🙂
Ivan, not all resistors are the same. This is to be considered as a temp solution but not permanent. You need to find the root cause of the problem and not a workaround solution
Thank you. I appreciate and learn from your deep dives into propper diag. These new cars scare me. Bring back the carburetors
Ivan you are definitely a G.O.A.T no one can troubleshoot like you!!
Sensing resistor fail in ecm. Probably could find it on pcb
Definitely, Rather just replace it with a used one
Great job Ivan. As always giving the customer 100% honest work. That's worth millions as far as I'm concerned 👍
Now that was a challange to figure that out. Kudos to you. Love watching skilled people do a job.. Right on..!
I still would like to know what the PID from the engine ECU says about the engine temp. (Edit, did see that it was done).
A lamp that goes on when the cooling fan goes on would also be a good indicator of overheating.
Interesting method to compensate for a defective temp gauge that can't reach full scale.. meter swap in cluster most likely not an option
Hi Ivan. Wish you were within reach of where I live, we could do with some honest to goodness diagnostics over here! Keep up the good work and let the videos flow, I do not miss one of them and could, on some occasions, help myself by learning from you in the proses. Greetings from South Africa.
You should replace that sensor with a factory unit. Also most dashboard panels have a voltage regulator module on them. If that failed it can cause all sorts of erratic readings..
So that earlier stalling when it was started was caused by the idle air controller, on that same circuit!
Crappy temp gauge fix. Just replace the stepper motor on the instrument cluster.
How did the "MM" get the needle out the red with a sensor change... ? Then once the ground is fixed it won't come off the bottom 🤔
Great job, Ivan! I expected the vacuum lines to be crumbling, but they were just messed around. You gave that temperature indicator the possible solution, without replacing / repairing the circuit driving it. I expected that the indicator would have a red light that would go on with excess temperature, independent of the needle position, but it does not seem to be the case.
And now, for the EVAP leak :-)
The temperature gauge could have an open circuit in one of its coils so it either needs another gauge or that one needs to be reconditioned.
I know that VDO (Vereinigte Deuta OTA) made the gauges for the Australian built cars such as the Holdens & Fords and they can still recondition the older factory gauges so they are like brand new again, they still have a repair shop which does that over here AFAIK.
I know that they can still repair them in New Zealand as well.
My great uncles stepdaughters Ford Falcon which I fixed, well,her local auto electrician charged her $280 AUD to "fix" it up by just fitting a fitting a generic fuel pump relay which generally went on those E series Ford Falcons in Australia but that didn't fix the problem.
They then just about convinced her that it was sediment in the fuel tank that was causing the engine to stall but I didn't think so,I even pulled the fuel filter out to check & it didn't appear to be very old & there was no dirt in the filter.
It was caused by the fact that there was high resistance in the aftermarket engine immobilizer/car alarm so I just bypassed that so it was wired up to how it was by Ford Australia.
I was told that I pissed off 😡 the auto electrician who told her that & possibly her mechanic as well who thought that it may have needed the engine replaced !
perhaps a odbII dongle with a wireless temp sensor unit dash mounted may be easier
Ivan, do you have a feel for how many times the problem on a particular manufacturers vehicles ends up being a bad ground? I know you are really good at keeping records. I think this information would help a very large portion of DIY guys out.
Ivan: "PEOPLE! PAY ATTENTION!" LMAO 🤣🤣 Awesome series, Ivan... I'll be waiting for the next one! Thank you!
I saw that the "P" in the PRND2L wasn't illuminated. I was curious if you were going to address that and apparently that is coming up in the next video. The only thing that would make this series any better is if this car was a 1994 Celica. While it took 3 hours to diagnose, as you pointed out it would have been cheaper than simply replacing parts; I am sure the owner was happy to pay for the diagnosis. GREAT VIDEO!
Great diagnostic like always! Thanks for sharing Ivan!
Great job, bad grounds and loose connections can be a nightmar to find.
Think that the issue with using a bulp for testing sometimes works, but a bulp have relativ low resistance when its cold, and when it heats up in the fillament it becomes even lower, and perhaps the driver on the controlbox isnt able to handle this. But anyway, the 50 ohm on the sensor sounds very low, since the system are a pull down, the sensor needs to be NTC type, and if the voltage from the controlunit between 2,5 to 5 volt it is some miliamps running though the driver in the controlbox. Did you find the specification on the sensor VS temp.
how about getting a cheap ob2 dangle and the app to read your temp. i did that to my 96 jeep xj.
People pay attention. Classic. You are lucky the diagrams were still there. I'm thankful for cell phones. I take pictures of all of that to reference how it was prior to repairs. In the case of these vacuum lines it would have done any good. Alldata or Mitchell is a must have because so many cars are missing those diagrams, engine IDs, AC capacities, etc.
I would really like to know what kind of liquid electrical you use, if you ever said it I missed it, great job and charge as you see fit, data driven diagnostics take time
I was more concerned with the transmission solenoid DTC than the temperature gauge malfunction. To me it seems unrelated to the loose bolted ground connection. Transmission solenoid control circuits, in my experience, have a dedicated power ground return.
The vacuum reservoir (tank) manifold feed hose looks stock, but to me the diameter of the vacuum hose looks at least one common size too small.
The resistor decade box is the best tool to simulate the operation of the temperature sensor for testing. Shorting the sensor to ground as a test is problematic because it simulates a Thermistor (analog temperature sensor) short to ground failure mode. OEM service data should provide the resistance range of the sensor which you can then simulate with the decade box.
As you can probably surmise, a single wire temperature sensor does not have a SIG RTN wire, so it is relying on the block instrumentation (cluster) ground connection to be working, clean, and trouble free. Where is the ground reference for the temperature sensor, is it a dedicated wire that goes to a common splice? The ground should be checked for corrosion and bad connections. If there is a high resistance ground it could shift the normal behavior of the circuit. I would not recommend hacking in a resistor, in my experience this always seem to be a short term fix.
Customer chronology decoded:
1) You could easily verify that the car was not overheating with an untrustworthy temperature gauge by looking at a live data PID. But with the clicking dash bad ground problem, would the car run? Perhaps. With the bad ground behavior you would not start by changing the temp sensor. It is obvious that the vehicle has higher priority issues.
2) Still broken, the car was taken to another local garage, but they "didn't have the ability to diagnose electrical issues", a rather surprising statement. Really just an excuse to not take on the repair. But, okay.
3) Still broken, the car was taken to the Toyota Dealer. Being that this is a 2004 Model, a dealer is probably the worst place to take it. Dealers are not the center of technical diagnostic/repair excellence. They prep cars for sale, do expensive routine maintenance, and perform warranty and recall repairs. For these older cars all you will get is a bad guess or an estimate before any real diagnostics which in the end will not fix the car. The 30 Year Master mechanic was just guessing, which is not very effective at fixing cars.
4) Still broken, another shop changed the water pump. Why, it was based on the dealer guess. The shop just did what they were told. But, it did nothing to address the problem.
5) Still broken, it was taken back to the dealer. Why you would do this after the dealer was obviously wrong about the first guess is rather surprising, but true to form the dealer, not competent at diagnostics, then made another poor guess, which did not fix the vehicle. Rather unsurprising. Then the dealer shows their true colors by bringing out the parts cannon. Just unbelievably ridiculous.
6) Still broken, it was taken to an Auto Electrical specialist that could not find anything wrong with it. What, and suggested to replace all of the ignition coils and then all of the fuel injectors, really, this is just crazy talk. Just live with your clicky dash where at times the car may not start. This is just unbelievable.
In the end the bad ground is not really surprising as root cause. It is after all the strange behavior catch all in auto electrical diagnostics.
What is more informative about the repair and repair history is how triadically inept is the state of auto repair expertise and how this robs the customer and gives the whole auto repair industry a bad name. This has got to change.
Great job Ivan! I do kind of wonder though if when the gauge pegged out if maybe the needle spun on the shaft which would cause the gauge to read low?
After my ordeal with a Lead Tech and Master Tech at a Mercedes dealer, I'm convinced, dealer training at Mercedes must take a whole afternoon to complete, at best. Diagnostics; Zero, Parts changing; Parts Cannon Specialist 3rd class, Learning to cut corners and justify not fixing anything; Top of the class, "Boy, you make us proud"
Ivan I’m an old dog so I can’t be taught any new tricks but for many,many younger pups watching and taking on board your technical approach they have great career skills and knowledge. Your the best sir 😁🥳🥳
Thanks to Ivan and a couple others, I’m proof that at least some old dogs can still be trained.
@@brianw8963 I understand Brian but the trick is remembering the new trick just learnt next time you need it that’s when I find it a tad hard. 👍
@@johnlarkin549 I can surely relate to that John!😅😅
I wonder if it would be possible to install a kind of "idiot light" LED that would light up when the car is definitely overheating?
must be a good decade box (and looks like it is) because that's 1.25 watts on 20Ω setting across 5v
twice I replace my 22Ω resistor in my resistor box...I swapped the 1/4w for 1/2w resistors for the lower settings...I still have to be more mindful of that
using those 2 resistors in parallel not only gave you desired value but incidentally doubled the watt capacity of the bundle
this was one of my favorite of your diags and that's saying a lot:)
Great point on power dissipation across the lower value resistors! It was a fun "modification" to dial in 😊
good on ya Ivan for diagnosing your way to the bad ground that no-one else could find. nice work!
Well done sir
Why was the owner's story written in 3rd person? Awesome case study, Ivan!