Keep in mind that these were designed to work in harsh industrial environments, in racks, where heat can build up easily. One thing I would recommend though is to try to match the CFMs of the old and new fans.
@ These things were not designed to work in harsh industrial environments - they cost 20k-100k USD and were designed for R&D labs (NB I own HP vector network analyzers, spectrum analyzers and signal generators that had prices North of new car territory, as well as newer R&S and Keysight equipment). The fans were designed to ensure long (design and operating) life of extremely expensive T&M equipment. As you mention though, it's important to ensure similar CFM and same air flow direction.
@@Anarchy1993 Not that much, older fans used permanent magnet systems wich are awready less energy efficient and are naturally more noisy. Than you run this fan awmost 24/7 with no good pause for lubrification, and adding up some vibration and damage in the bearings. And they werent meant to be silent. A CNC machine we had, needed a fan to be on or the psu would die. It was made to be noisy so we could diagnose the machine when turning it on, as the old 30 year old copy of the manual said. Modern fans are usually way more eficient and less noisy. I did replace several old fans, and they in fact usually modern ones push way more air. Even more if you compare that a new one uses 0.2A and the old one used 0.750 but the worn out circuit probably only delivered about 0.5. Never saw a old one that was better than a more silent and modern one. Even some rare servers i messed around with, they are for sure noisy, but just like their modern counterparts. I would be worried if it used some bizarre ac fan that has a uncommon size and rotation.
I already did this on my 16500b when the old HDD went bad. I found out soon enough that not all CF cards work. After some trial end error I found out that the Swissbit 250Mb works good.You can go to the HP museum website and you can download the operating system for it. You just need to buy a CF to IDE adapter, pop in the card, boot it from floppy and install the operating system. No need to image the old hdd.
Since I had a similar experience with some really old Toshiba laptops (luggables) I googled a bit and found this document www.scss.tcd.ie/SCSSTreasuresCatalog/hardware/TCD-SCSS-T.20150217.002/HP16500-Series-Mainframel.pdf that says: "Note that the Hard Disk controller and/or the CPU Board firmware/BIOS will not recognize any other brand/type of Hard Disk (other than different sizes of the Quantum Fireball 3.5 Series XXXXAT)" However I googled some more and I found this page with infos on the conversion and a list of compatible adapters and CF cards: www.ko4bb.com/doku2015/doku.php?id=test_equipment:hard_drive_conversion_to_cf_for_hp16500
Ugh, Resolve has this weird bug where _sometimes_ changing the playback resolution changes the text scale. I guess that happened, fun. Thanks for letting me know! The gist was "I couldn't confirm the B model could NOT read DOS/FAT12 disks so it may be possible." I found one source that made other mistakes that said the B couldn't and that's all I was able to go on.
@@TechTangents I can confirm that the 16500B model does read/write in DOS/FAT12 format, since that's the model I have. It's also got the half-height 3.5" drive, and it is HD (1.44MB)
I seem to recall there being a limit of like 2GB on the hard disk when I was swapping to CF card. I have the same adapter you're using I believe. I've got a 16500B. I dumped the hard disk to image file using an IDE to USB adaptor.
Fan mod might be quieter but among others in the description, I think there’s a reason why big beefy fans. I don’t think the fans will keep up and the thing will cook it self.
The B model uses normal FAT formated floppies. Hotel might not work with it, because on the B model, at least, the FDD is a non standard type, with only a 34 pin connector and no power connector. I poked around and, from what I could figure, it seems to be some kind o Shugart type FDD. And if you need to replace the HDD, not all of them will work, because of the way the mainframe formats them. There are some Linux apps you can use to image and convert the HDD data so you can read it. But I just replace my HDD with a Swissbit 250MB CF and reinstalled the Operating system using the FDD.
You may wish to use a Disk-On-Module in place of the IDE disk. I’ve had more success with these in legacy conversion projects. Regarding the fans you fitted, Your analyser is going to an early grave if you don’t have the required air throughput and that the fans are capable of generating the required pressure to ensure ALL areas of the instrument case receive adequate cooling. There is a reason the original fans were in an Aluminium frame!
It's actually a bit of a pain if you're not looking at it dead on. Because it uses ultrasonic detectors, there's a slight depth of field effect, so whatever proboscis you're using has to go in straight otherwise you end up pressing the wrong thing.
I literally put a Noctua Redux in my HP 33120A like a week ago. Funny to see a video about a similar thing here. It made a MASSIVE difference. Thing went from loud asf to silent! I'd definitely recommend it. I plan on uploading some videos at some point whenever I get around to editing. (So probably a while.)
Someone just gave me a 3.5 quantum drive to recover, sadly the heads are trashed .... But damn if there wasn't some amazing spin up sounds coming from it.
Very nice! I'm happy to see that you have managed to get the 16500C in this configuration. I'm a bit jealous. ;) The fan solution is quite interesting. Fortunately, the 16500C has 12V fans unlike my 1630G where the fan is mains-powered and switched between 115 and 230V. At least it sounds about the same as your original fans. The CF card problem may come from the partition size. I had a similar problem with a ThinkPad a while back. Not sure about the exact size, but I seem to remember something about a max size of 2 GB. But with this HP Unix system it may all be totally different. I wonder if those cheap mSATA to IDE adapters might work here instead. btw: Did you archive the disk set somewhere? That might come in handy if I ever manage to find a 16500C over here in Germany. :)
In the second watching, I noticed you mentioning USB Logic Analysers. While they are nice and useful, it is worth noting that the HP logic analyser pods can do a lot more than just 5V DC or TTL. The pods of my HP 1630 G are rated for +/-40 V DC, which IMHO gives a lot to work with, including e.g. 24V programmable logic controller analysis.
sure, if you need that, but I'm guessing 99% of people looking for logic analyzers aren't going to use them for PLC (if they even know what that is). for everyday LA use I'd say the small USB ones are much more practical than these clunky old beasts but these are still cool, for the same reasons any old UNIX hardware is.
Have you tried SD-IDE adapters? I much prefer them as you don't need to go hunting for compatible cards - you just have one (usually by Sintechi) chip and any card should work. I've got two and they work flawlessly in both systems. My P1 PC wouldn't accept any of the CF cards I had but it took to my two SD cards straightaway.
mrdaxtercrane SD cards don't use SATA. CFast cards do though. SD cards can be adapted to IDE and presumably SATA via a controller chip like I mentioned in my comment.
One of the really nice things about the HP spinoffs is that they still provide support for these boat anchors. I contacted Agilent for some recovery disks and they sent them out to me for free. For my 3852A they sent me out new ROMs. I can't speak for Keysight, but I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't do the same thing. As for the 16500 series, do yourself a favor and upgrade to a 16900 model.
They still do! I contacted them because the HDD died in my old Agilent Infiniium Oscilloscope and they provided me with OS recovery disks. That's customer service!
@@0xbenedikt Along with sending me stuff, they sent out a set of upgrade ROMs to a friend of mine in Finland. Nothing wrong with the unit as it was, he just wanted to upgrade it. That's pretty awesome! :)
my two cents , could it be how the CF card was formatted? i think you,Druga, somebody had . the HDD had the same FAT format , but since it was created by something newer it did't like it .
13:35 my God! This is my main complaint with these! I have to get an adapter each time because 90% of the time the PSU has one only floppy connector and, even better, the floppy drive needs it!
The real question here is what Goodwill does this guy go to that always has such an INSANE amazing selection of vintage tech?? The Goodwills near me never have anything like what AkBkuKu continually finds.
Dude, I just yesterday got my Tempest arcade boards up and running using an Arium ML-4100 logic analyzer using a custom harness I wired up to the 32-channel pod. Crazy thing was, after installing the missing CPU and vector state machine ROM and replacing all of the failing ROM chips, it turned out the only thing that was preventing the boards from running was a tiny piece of solder debris shorting between two traces. These boards would've been an easy project if I had just looked in the right place, but I would not have looked in the right place without the aid of that logic analyzer. I just wish I had gotten the pod sooner, but I got the analyzer itself for free several years ago and it to AGES for one of the pods to finally show up on eBay by itself.
yea thing with modular systems is to try to find them complete, any missing parts and you're either going to be looking forever or pay through the nose (especially outside US). I got the 16500c with pods but was missing grabbers. as I wanted original HP ones ended up paying about the same for them (inc. shipping+taxes) as I did for the system.. later on realized IC clip is much more practical and ended up not really even using the grabbers 🙄
personally if I had to use the model A id use a HXC floppy emulator on it, and it should solve the issues, also you could always use the rubber fan mounts that Dell was famous for using to dampen noise, also what about the ide to sd?
I have one of these. I replaced the Fans, converted it to CF and topped off the RAM. I'm thinking to replace the Floppy with a Gotek Floppy emulator. I also need to probably recap the Power Supply at some point because if the rear power switch is left on I hear a high pitch noise coming from a couple of Caps. So right now I have a smart power strip and Alexa to control the ON/OFF state of my Analyzer. The CF modification is tricky to do. It's picky with the CF card and the adapter as well. I have lost the weblink I had saved that lists what Adapter and cards work. I do know that it doesn't like anything higher then 1GB of storage. I think it uses a FAT16 File System. Even if you use a bigger card and partition it smaller it will still be picky about it. When I was finding a home for this mammoth I decided to make a little Keystone BNC breakout and have it on the Bench and the Analyzer went onto my Server Rack. Worked out since my Scope Probes are on the short side. I also got the Xwin portion working so I can control it from my PC.
Saw a few comments about those fans, just passing the word around. Might want to ensure you have the proper CFM with em. Maybe in part two check it out. It sucks when things like this are super noisy but if you want it to last you’ll either have to find equivalent fans or keep using the old ones.
I've been on college visits in recent months (to an extent due to the pandemic) and every, single college has these bad boys in use in the departments i'm interested in
I mostly use the LAN rather than needing a flash card, but I would like a dummy floppy to avoid the annoying track-zero recal at startup ! I guess a gotek would quieten that but it seems an expensive mod for just a 1-second noise reduction.
This prompted me to pull the trigger on a bare "C." Bought an "A" a few years ago with a number of cards/pods for $10. But those LIF format disks are such a pain.
Only $10? I'm assuming that's local? I got mine locally for $100, and even with only the 16510 logic analyzer card, it seemed like a steal considering I didn't have to pay to have the damn thing shipped! By the way, the 16500 "B" also reads/writes DOS disks, but it doesn't have the PS/2 ports, so I'd definitely get the "C" if you can.
@@BlackEpyon it was listed on eBay for parts because it didn't pass the floppy self test. I was the only bidder. I did pay $40 to have it shipped. It just needed a boot floppy. And it came with 3 or 4 cards. Couldn't believe that no one else bid, just for the cards.
@@JamesPotts That was worth it just for the cards alone! Shipping on eBay goes up to $200, depending on where you're shipping from/to, I imagine. Did it come with the pods or did you just grab some bulk test clips from Amazon like I did?
@@BlackEpyon tell me about it, if I wasn't lazy I'd setup import/export business, go fill up a container of practically free electronics from US, ship it to europe and make 500% profit
I used those papst fans on my mooded Antec KS-188 Tower 10+r years, still have them and yep pretty loud compared to most PC fans and I'm not too sure they have much higher CFM but at least they seem to be indestructible. 😬
What about using Driveimage to image the hard drive from your piece of test equipment onto a SSD and somehow copy the software on the floppy onto a USB which can work in the USB2FLOPPY adapter
having a CF or SD card in there would also reduce the heat produced, but wouldn't it also cause a lack of use of the 12 volt rail? That would cause more heat if there isn't the proper load on 12v? Not sure if it's a concern.
Logic analyzers would be used in electronics labs, and for high-level computer/electronic repair. My dad was a senior service rep for a company that manufactured electronic hospital equipment (ECG/anaesthetic/ventilator/etc), and a mainframe like the 16500 is sort of the computer world's equivalent.
a logic analyser debugs chips/circuits, you can connect it to various i/o pins and system buses and slurp up all of the signals and states. it produces a big log which you can then pull into a computer program and start reconstructing the machine code. (i only know about this because of watching curiousmarc's alto restoration vids, where it came up a lot to diagnose which chips were faulty and to create a.. fpga disk emulator i think? it's been a while. but yeah)
Yeah, when you're trying to get into advanced electronics repair, being able to pick up a used oscilloscope or logic analyzer for cheap can really pay off. I picked up my 16500B (with an 80-channel 16510 logic analyzer card) for $100 off a guy at my local retro computer meetup. It's been well worth it's weight. I had an issue with my Tandy 1000HX. Something had shorted while I was probing voltages for a card I was building (blame my hands for that), and it would no longer boot. I connected the logic analyzer to the expansion header so I could see what the bus was doing. The clock signals, address lines, I/O and Mem read/write lines were all behaving, but I noticed that half of the data bus (only 8 bits) was stuck. So that narrows down what the problem is, it's something on the data bus. Between the CPU and the expansion header is a bare handful of chips, which narrows the problem down significantly. Because the address lines were all working properly, and the i8088 CPU has the first 8 address pins shared with data (multiplexing), I could tell that the CPU was working fine. That then lead me to the he HCT245 buffer that feeds the expansion data bus, and which also happens to be closest in line to where I was probing when it shorted. So I replaced that (also installed a socket), and It booted up just fine. So it turned out that the dead buffer chip was holding down half the data bus, so nothing else could work properly. If it wasn't this chip, I'd have started probing the other chips that connect to it, such as the nearby buffer that serves the internal data bus, or the 8259A interrupt controller to see if either of them were holding down the data bus. If either of them were faulty on the CPU side though, the address lines wouldn't function properly, and that would have changed what I saw at the expansion bus. Fortunately, this was a relatively simple fix - everything came down to that single '245. Logic analyzers, combined with the service manual (schematics and timing diagrams), can be used for much more complex problems than that. Sure, you can use a logic probe or oscilloscope, and EVENTUALLY find the culprit (if it isn't more than one chip), but you're limited by the number of channels, and being able to view the entire bus at once can potentially save a LOT of time!
Hrm? A logic analyzer with a Trinitron (given how curved the screen looks) CRT? That's one hell of a fine piece of equipment! Must've costed a few grands when new..
@@vendybirdsvadl7472 Yeah. I've got a Tandy CM-5 with a bad vertical output that I need to get back to fixing at some point. It was working before I tried taking it to an event, so obviously I didn't pack it well enough. Not that the main board inside these CRTs are ever properly mounted to begin with (the board is bowed from all the years of heat distorting it!)
This can be a pretty handy utility for taking advantage of modern analysis tools with captures you take with the 16500C: www.brouhaha.com/~eric/software/la2vcd/ While the built-in symbol utility and the reverse assembler you can get for it are nifty for doing parallel bus decoding, anything to do with serial protocols (I2C, SPI, etc.) would require an external serial-to-parallel adapter to get it to decode them. With la2vcd, you can translate a trace capture to the standard VCD format, which you can load into tools like Gtkwave or Sigrok. Deep/long captures take quite a while to download though; it translates the internal raw memory dump to a text format, which I think takes more time than the actual transfer over Ethernet. Also, you can do SCPI over telnet, so your non-HPIB-capable computers can control it tool. :)
Why dont you use IDE to usb adapter and simply clone old HDD using Acronis to the new drive? Or you can use Acronis True Image (cold boot) to make an image of old HDD and save it simewhere as a backup. There is 2017 version which is free, ISO available for download. It saved me many times. You can also clone bit by bit if hdd is bad.
@@resneptacle Well, Acronis can clone disk with all partitions to another one keeping it exact as previous. It was a legal free download, you can find information and download link (direct from Acronis) here malwaretips.com/threads/acronis-true-image-2017-bootcd.77984/
I've personally had much more luck using SATA-to-IDE adapters over CF cards. An mSata-to-IDE adapter is ideal for smaller and/or lower power applications.
I would have just used the dd command to copy that drive to an img file and then flash the compact flash card with that image created from the original disk
I may be alone in thinking this, but honestly, I would rather have the before than after. Only because I would rather have the louder lower pitch noise than the quiet high pitch ring it has now. (I know that's the Hard Drive and Shelby said he was going to swap it for CP)
So you spent 25 minutes replacing two fans? I am a fan of the channel but in the future I'll be sure to skip to the end right away to see if there is a payoff instead of a let down.
Sometimes the journey is more important than the destination. Its a shame you didn't find the information about the device interesting and that all you took from the video was a fan install
@@UnreasonableSteve I've watched every single post to this point and I have not been upset until now. The journey requires a conclusion, not a what if.
I would be careful to make sure the air flow rate isn't too low compared to the OEM fans.
You don't want to cook your HP!
BUMP! I was thinking about it, This is important!
Keep in mind that these were designed to work in harsh industrial environments, in racks, where heat can build up easily. One thing I would recommend though is to try to match the CFMs of the old and new fans.
@ These things were not designed to work in harsh industrial environments - they cost 20k-100k USD and were designed for R&D labs (NB I own HP vector network analyzers, spectrum analyzers and signal generators that had prices North of new car territory, as well as newer R&S and Keysight equipment). The fans were designed to ensure long (design and operating) life of extremely expensive T&M equipment. As you mention though, it's important to ensure similar CFM and same air flow direction.
Exactly what I was thinking. The fans might be loud for a reason.. they might move way more air.
@@Anarchy1993 Not that much, older fans used permanent magnet systems wich are awready less energy efficient and are naturally more noisy.
Than you run this fan awmost 24/7 with no good pause for lubrification, and adding up some vibration and damage in the bearings.
And they werent meant to be silent.
A CNC machine we had, needed a fan to be on or the psu would die. It was made to be noisy so we could diagnose the machine when turning it on, as the old 30 year old copy of the manual said.
Modern fans are usually way more eficient and less noisy.
I did replace several old fans, and they in fact usually modern ones push way more air. Even more if you compare that a new one uses 0.2A and the old one used 0.750 but the worn out circuit probably only delivered about 0.5.
Never saw a old one that was better than a more silent and modern one.
Even some rare servers i messed around with, they are for sure noisy, but just like their modern counterparts.
I would be worried if it used some bizarre ac fan that has a uncommon size and rotation.
I would try limiting the primary partition on the CF card to 500mb.
went looking for this comment
Or dd that HD to CF card sector by sector.
I already did this on my 16500b when the old HDD went bad. I found out soon enough that not all CF cards work. After some trial end error I found out that the Swissbit 250Mb works good.You can go to the HP museum website and you can download the operating system for it. You just need to buy a CF to IDE adapter, pop in the card, boot it from floppy and install the operating system. No need to image the old hdd.
Flash storage, SSD, someone turn on the Druaga1 light
Call the SSD hotline!
He posted a video the other day 😱
“Flexible disk” - look who’s so fancy. I see you, HP.
That's what NCR calls floppy disks as well.
Because floppy could signify weakness, flexible is stronger. Corporate wankery at it's best
@@gigglesseven Or prudishness.
I have a lot of industrial video equipment, and like this, some manufacturers seem to relish using the noisiest fans they can find.
Since I had a similar experience with some really old Toshiba laptops (luggables) I googled a bit and found this document www.scss.tcd.ie/SCSSTreasuresCatalog/hardware/TCD-SCSS-T.20150217.002/HP16500-Series-Mainframel.pdf that says:
"Note that the Hard Disk controller and/or the CPU Board firmware/BIOS will not recognize any other brand/type of Hard Disk (other than different sizes of the Quantum Fireball 3.5 Series XXXXAT)"
However I googled some more and I found this page with infos on the conversion and a list of compatible adapters and CF cards: www.ko4bb.com/doku2015/doku.php?id=test_equipment:hard_drive_conversion_to_cf_for_hp16500
I hate to be "that guy" but the text you added in post totally cuts off the frame
Ugh, Resolve has this weird bug where _sometimes_ changing the playback resolution changes the text scale. I guess that happened, fun. Thanks for letting me know!
The gist was "I couldn't confirm the B model could NOT read DOS/FAT12 disks so it may be possible." I found one source that made other mistakes that said the B couldn't and that's all I was able to go on.
@@TechTangents Also the text at 8:13 just so ya know
@@TechTangents I can confirm that the 16500B model does read/write in DOS/FAT12 format, since that's the model I have. It's also got the half-height 3.5" drive, and it is HD (1.44MB)
I seem to recall there being a limit of like 2GB on the hard disk when I was swapping to CF card. I have the same adapter you're using I believe. I've got a 16500B. I dumped the hard disk to image file using an IDE to USB adaptor.
Fan mod might be quieter but among others in the description, I think there’s a reason why big beefy fans. I don’t think the fans will keep up and the thing will cook it self.
The B model uses normal FAT formated floppies. Hotel might not work with it, because on the B model, at least, the FDD is a non standard type, with only a 34 pin connector and no power connector. I poked around and, from what I could figure, it seems to be some kind o Shugart type FDD. And if you need to replace the HDD, not all of them will work, because of the way the mainframe formats them. There are some Linux apps you can use to image and convert the HDD data so you can read it. But I just replace my HDD with a Swissbit 250MB CF and reinstalled the Operating system using the FDD.
You may wish to use a Disk-On-Module in place of the IDE disk. I’ve had more success with these in legacy conversion projects.
Regarding the fans you fitted, Your analyser is going to an early grave if you don’t have the required air throughput and that the fans are capable of generating the required pressure to ensure ALL areas of the instrument case receive adequate cooling. There is a reason the original fans were in an Aluminium frame!
That touch screen is so damn cool.
It's actually a bit of a pain if you're not looking at it dead on. Because it uses ultrasonic detectors, there's a slight depth of field effect, so whatever proboscis you're using has to go in straight otherwise you end up pressing the wrong thing.
I wonder if the one in Die Hard was like that. If it wasn't just a "prop".
I literally put a Noctua Redux in my HP 33120A like a week ago. Funny to see a video about a similar thing here. It made a MASSIVE difference. Thing went from loud asf to silent! I'd definitely recommend it. I plan on uploading some videos at some point whenever I get around to editing. (So probably a while.)
looks like a Microwave with a Diskdrive... weird.... :-)
i tought placing PC inside microwave IS noise reduction mod :D
Weighs more than most microwaves though. The newer ones, anyways.
I really hope you do get a solid state solution working, as those old Quantum Fireball drives are notorious for failing in modern times. :(
That's the sound of HP hardware from the 90's. I have an HP 6627A and the fan in that is damn loud.
The nostalgia is strong with that quantum drive spinning up and reading... I've got an 8 gig 5.25 drive that I'm going to find a home for now
Someone just gave me a 3.5 quantum drive to recover, sadly the heads are trashed .... But damn if there wasn't some amazing spin up sounds coming from it.
Your HP16500C is a magical 3.5" floppy creator as shown at 6:30.
Yeah wtf looks like a glitch in the matrix
Akabkuku and duruga on the same day? Is it my birthday?
No but it is mine. Now if only LGR would upload... And The 8BitGuy, then it'd be complete.
I know, I'm stunned too
Very nice!
I'm happy to see that you have managed to get the 16500C in this configuration. I'm a bit jealous. ;)
The fan solution is quite interesting. Fortunately, the 16500C has 12V fans unlike my 1630G where the fan is mains-powered and switched between 115 and 230V. At least it sounds about the same as your original fans.
The CF card problem may come from the partition size. I had a similar problem with a ThinkPad a while back. Not sure about the exact size, but I seem to remember something about a max size of 2 GB. But with this HP Unix system it may all be totally different.
I wonder if those cheap mSATA to IDE adapters might work here instead.
btw: Did you archive the disk set somewhere? That might come in handy if I ever manage to find a 16500C over here in Germany. :)
In the second watching, I noticed you mentioning USB Logic Analysers.
While they are nice and useful, it is worth noting that the HP logic analyser pods can do a lot more than just 5V DC or TTL.
The pods of my HP 1630 G are rated for +/-40 V DC, which IMHO gives a lot to work with, including e.g. 24V programmable logic controller analysis.
sure, if you need that, but I'm guessing 99% of people looking for logic analyzers aren't going to use them for PLC (if they even know what that is). for everyday LA use I'd say the small USB ones are much more practical than these clunky old beasts but these are still cool, for the same reasons any old UNIX hardware is.
This is all so far beyond my capability to comprehend that I'm ashamed to admit it :D But I still loved to watch the whole thing!
Have you tried SD-IDE adapters? I much prefer them as you don't need to go hunting for compatible cards - you just have one (usually by Sintechi) chip and any card should work. I've got two and they work flawlessly in both systems. My P1 PC wouldn't accept any of the CF cards I had but it took to my two SD cards straightaway.
I was about to suggest this in the comments. I've had good luck with IDE->SD solutions on retro systems as well! :)
SD cards would use the SATA interface, and CF cards the IDE interface. It's preferable to use the less number of adaptions as possible
mrdaxtercrane SD cards don't use SATA. CFast cards do though. SD cards can be adapted to IDE and presumably SATA via a controller chip like I mentioned in my comment.
Why you not just clone old drive?
my same thought.
oh yeah, if you _dd_ a smaller drive to a larger drive, the usable size stays the same right?
@@kaitlyn__L There's a few ways to clone a disk.
@@DForce26 uh yeah I know that. that's why I specified dd
One of the really nice things about the HP spinoffs is that they still provide support for these boat anchors. I contacted Agilent for some recovery disks and they sent them out to me for free. For my 3852A they sent me out new ROMs. I can't speak for Keysight, but I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't do the same thing.
As for the 16500 series, do yourself a favor and upgrade to a 16900 model.
They still do! I contacted them because the HDD died in my old Agilent Infiniium Oscilloscope and they provided me with OS recovery disks. That's customer service!
@@0xbenedikt Along with sending me stuff, they sent out a set of upgrade ROMs to a friend of mine in Finland. Nothing wrong with the unit as it was, he just wanted to upgrade it. That's pretty awesome! :)
That’s a really awesome machine. Thanks for sharing.
I actually suggest using a SATA to IDE instead of CF to IDE! Those usually work better
Did you turn the fans the right way round in the end?
my two cents , could it be how the CF card was formatted? i think you,Druga, somebody had . the HDD had the same FAT format , but since it was created by something newer it did't like it .
Another great vid Shelby
13:35 my God! This is my main complaint with these! I have to get an adapter each time because 90% of the time the PSU has one only floppy connector and, even better, the floppy drive needs it!
The real question here is what Goodwill does this guy go to that always has such an INSANE amazing selection of vintage tech?? The Goodwills near me never have anything like what AkBkuKu continually finds.
Dude, I just yesterday got my Tempest arcade boards up and running using an Arium ML-4100 logic analyzer using a custom harness I wired up to the 32-channel pod.
Crazy thing was, after installing the missing CPU and vector state machine ROM and replacing all of the failing ROM chips, it turned out the only thing that was preventing the boards from running was a tiny piece of solder debris shorting between two traces. These boards would've been an easy project if I had just looked in the right place, but I would not have looked in the right place without the aid of that logic analyzer.
I just wish I had gotten the pod sooner, but I got the analyzer itself for free several years ago and it to AGES for one of the pods to finally show up on eBay by itself.
yea thing with modular systems is to try to find them complete, any missing parts and you're either going to be looking forever or pay through the nose (especially outside US). I got the 16500c with pods but was missing grabbers. as I wanted original HP ones ended up paying about the same for them (inc. shipping+taxes) as I did for the system.. later on realized IC clip is much more practical and ended up not really even using the grabbers 🙄
personally if I had to use the model A id use a HXC floppy emulator on it, and it should solve the issues, also you could always use the rubber fan mounts that Dell was famous for using to dampen noise, also what about the ide to sd?
I have one of these. I replaced the Fans, converted it to CF and topped off the RAM. I'm thinking to replace the Floppy with a Gotek Floppy emulator. I also need to probably recap the Power Supply at some point because if the rear power switch is left on I hear a high pitch noise coming from a couple of Caps. So right now I have a smart power strip and Alexa to control the ON/OFF state of my Analyzer.
The CF modification is tricky to do. It's picky with the CF card and the adapter as well. I have lost the weblink I had saved that lists what Adapter and cards work. I do know that it doesn't like anything higher then 1GB of storage. I think it uses a FAT16 File System. Even if you use a bigger card and partition it smaller it will still be picky about it.
When I was finding a home for this mammoth I decided to make a little Keystone BNC breakout and have it on the Bench and the Analyzer went onto my Server Rack. Worked out since my Scope Probes are on the short side. I also got the Xwin portion working so I can control it from my PC.
You found a Noctua fan at a thrift store? Lucky.
And to think I was looking at a HP Stream laptop in a branch of CEX the other day, never anything like a Noctua fan ever in those
Saw a few comments about those fans, just passing the word around. Might want to ensure you have the proper CFM with em. Maybe in part two check it out. It sucks when things like this are super noisy but if you want it to last you’ll either have to find equivalent fans or keep using the old ones.
I've been on college visits in recent months (to an extent due to the pandemic) and every, single college has these bad boys in use in the departments i'm interested in
why not try dd'ing the old drive over to the compact flash? it might work..
EDIT: also ooooh that old quantum hard drive initialisation sound.. < 3
I mostly use the LAN rather than needing a flash card, but I would like a dummy floppy to avoid the annoying track-zero recal at startup ! I guess a gotek would quieten that but it seems an expensive mod for just a 1-second noise reduction.
Man, that Quantum disk startup sound at 24:30...
This prompted me to pull the trigger on a bare "C." Bought an "A" a few years ago with a number of cards/pods for $10. But those LIF format disks are such a pain.
Only $10? I'm assuming that's local? I got mine locally for $100, and even with only the 16510 logic analyzer card, it seemed like a steal considering I didn't have to pay to have the damn thing shipped! By the way, the 16500 "B" also reads/writes DOS disks, but it doesn't have the PS/2 ports, so I'd definitely get the "C" if you can.
@@BlackEpyon it was listed on eBay for parts because it didn't pass the floppy self test. I was the only bidder. I did pay $40 to have it shipped.
It just needed a boot floppy. And it came with 3 or 4 cards. Couldn't believe that no one else bid, just for the cards.
@@JamesPotts That was worth it just for the cards alone! Shipping on eBay goes up to $200, depending on where you're shipping from/to, I imagine.
Did it come with the pods or did you just grab some bulk test clips from Amazon like I did?
@@BlackEpyon tell me about it, if I wasn't lazy I'd setup import/export business, go fill up a container of practically free electronics from US, ship it to europe and make 500% profit
@@SamuliTuomola_stt Keep in mind that when selling people's "junk," you can only make a profit in the niche markets that value that junk.
I used those papst fans on my mooded Antec KS-188 Tower 10+r years, still have them and yep pretty loud compared to most PC fans and I'm not too sure they have much higher CFM but at least they seem to be indestructible. 😬
What about using Driveimage to image the hard drive from your piece of test equipment onto a SSD and somehow copy the software on the floppy onto a USB which can work in the USB2FLOPPY adapter
8:14 heeey wtf why is it cropped
14:45 time change!!
having a CF or SD card in there would also reduce the heat produced, but wouldn't it also cause a lack of use of the 12 volt rail? That would cause more heat if there isn't the proper load on 12v? Not sure if it's a concern.
When was it released, were was it used for?? I just don’t know but you might think that hospitals did also use them ,mmm.
Logic analyzers would be used in electronics labs, and for high-level computer/electronic repair. My dad was a senior service rep for a company that manufactured electronic hospital equipment (ECG/anaesthetic/ventilator/etc), and a mainframe like the 16500 is sort of the computer world's equivalent.
a logic analyser debugs chips/circuits, you can connect it to various i/o pins and system buses and slurp up all of the signals and states. it produces a big log which you can then pull into a computer program and start reconstructing the machine code. (i only know about this because of watching curiousmarc's alto restoration vids, where it came up a lot to diagnose which chips were faulty and to create a.. fpga disk emulator i think? it's been a while. but yeah)
Yeah, when you're trying to get into advanced electronics repair, being able to pick up a used oscilloscope or logic analyzer for cheap can really pay off. I picked up my 16500B (with an 80-channel 16510 logic analyzer card) for $100 off a guy at my local retro computer meetup. It's been well worth it's weight.
I had an issue with my Tandy 1000HX. Something had shorted while I was probing voltages for a card I was building (blame my hands for that), and it would no longer boot. I connected the logic analyzer to the expansion header so I could see what the bus was doing. The clock signals, address lines, I/O and Mem read/write lines were all behaving, but I noticed that half of the data bus (only 8 bits) was stuck. So that narrows down what the problem is, it's something on the data bus. Between the CPU and the expansion header is a bare handful of chips, which narrows the problem down significantly. Because the address lines were all working properly, and the i8088 CPU has the first 8 address pins shared with data (multiplexing), I could tell that the CPU was working fine. That then lead me to the he HCT245 buffer that feeds the expansion data bus, and which also happens to be closest in line to where I was probing when it shorted. So I replaced that (also installed a socket), and It booted up just fine.
So it turned out that the dead buffer chip was holding down half the data bus, so nothing else could work properly. If it wasn't this chip, I'd have started probing the other chips that connect to it, such as the nearby buffer that serves the internal data bus, or the 8259A interrupt controller to see if either of them were holding down the data bus. If either of them were faulty on the CPU side though, the address lines wouldn't function properly, and that would have changed what I saw at the expansion bus. Fortunately, this was a relatively simple fix - everything came down to that single '245.
Logic analyzers, combined with the service manual (schematics and timing diagrams), can be used for much more complex problems than that. Sure, you can use a logic probe or oscilloscope, and EVENTUALLY find the culprit (if it isn't more than one chip), but you're limited by the number of channels, and being able to view the entire bus at once can potentially save a LOT of time!
Just a thought, but maby look into converting it from CRT to LCD..
I would have limited the cf card and then clone the og hdd to the cf card.
The on screen text is cut off.
Nice! But I am a bit shocked you can't afford a 30 Euro Noctua fan. Are they considerably cheaper here in Europe than in the US?
maybe you should just create a byte for byte clone of the Quantum drive to the compact flash card?
2:38 LTT Store dot com
Holy Smokes this thing is cool!
I was thinking you could always just put in another ide hdd if this one dies before your flash card mod gets in
Hrm? A logic analyzer with a Trinitron (given how curved the screen looks) CRT? That's one hell of a fine piece of equipment! Must've costed a few grands when new..
Few 10s of grands, most likely - even in early 90s dollars.
That big red high voltage block is another sign of a Sony
The best I've been able to find out is that the LAN card alone (for the "B" model) was $1500
Yeah i noticed it had a trinitron too....
Is the text that shows up on screen supposed to be cut off on the sides?
Why didn't he just dd the drive to CF before installing? Is there a problem with doing this?
Very cool and prices on these things are reasonable.
The prices usually aren't bad, even on eBay, but the shipping is the killer.
@@BlackEpyonsometimes those deliveries can mess up crts
@@vendybirdsvadl7472 Yeah. I've got a Tandy CM-5 with a bad vertical output that I need to get back to fixing at some point. It was working before I tried taking it to an event, so obviously I didn't pack it well enough. Not that the main board inside these CRTs are ever properly mounted to begin with (the board is bowed from all the years of heat distorting it!)
Do you have the feet for it? I think the keyboard might just about fit underneath and still be usable (storing TTL databook under mine)
This video is sick fam
Install Ontrack Software in the cf card for compatibility
Is that a Trinitron?
Because that looks like a Trinitron
The old fans were nice Papst fans. Unfortunately, even they don't last forever.
why not use a ide to sd card adapter
i have good results with those
This can be a pretty handy utility for taking advantage of modern analysis tools with captures you take with the 16500C: www.brouhaha.com/~eric/software/la2vcd/
While the built-in symbol utility and the reverse assembler you can get for it are nifty for doing parallel bus decoding, anything to do with serial protocols (I2C, SPI, etc.) would require an external serial-to-parallel adapter to get it to decode them. With la2vcd, you can translate a trace capture to the standard VCD format, which you can load into tools like Gtkwave or Sigrok. Deep/long captures take quite a while to download though; it translates the internal raw memory dump to a text format, which I think takes more time than the actual transfer over Ethernet.
Also, you can do SCPI over telnet, so your non-HPIB-capable computers can control it tool. :)
Why not just do a linux DD command? That may clear up if it really is picky with the Flash card.
Only the OG's remember akbkuku
no idea what that is, but it sure is cool.
why not just mirror the disk to the CF card?
Why dont you use IDE to usb adapter and simply clone old HDD using Acronis to the new drive? Or you can use Acronis True Image (cold boot) to make an image of old HDD and save it simewhere as a backup. There is 2017 version which is free, ISO available for download. It saved me many times. You can also clone bit by bit if hdd is bad.
DD would most likely the best option because of partition/drive sizes, just to be sure
@@resneptacle Well, Acronis can clone disk with all partitions to another one keeping it exact as previous. It was a legal free download, you can find information and download link (direct from Acronis) here malwaretips.com/threads/acronis-true-image-2017-bootcd.77984/
Clint asked if it plays Duke? ;)
I've personally had much more luck using SATA-to-IDE adapters over CF cards. An mSata-to-IDE adapter is ideal for smaller and/or lower power applications.
Question. If you do mostly get used stuff from goodwill, did you get your MacBook from eBay and your desktop, or did you buy those new?
I would have just used the dd command to copy that drive to an img file and then flash the compact flash card with that image created from the original disk
I may be alone in thinking this, but honestly, I would rather have the before than after. Only because I would rather have the louder lower pitch noise than the quiet high pitch ring it has now. (I know that's the Hard Drive and Shelby said he was going to swap it for CP)
old staff with new noctua fan
me: I have no machine like this, so why would I watch this video.
also me: watches video
neat
I want to do this mod in my COMPAQ PORTABLE I... it's incredibly noisy.
Fan not RGB??? ;-)
Hold up, Xwindow remote access on a 'scope? That's genuinely cool as fuck!
Do you need a 256MB IDE Disk-on-module? I can send you one.
I live in the PHX metro area. I have some old computer stuff. Let me know if you want it.
nice
you don't have money for a 20-30$ noctua fan?
Run doom on it
A DOM might be better then CF,,,. Dang you just said it .
You are a cool nerd.
That's what, a 140mm? Send me a message at this sn at gmail and I'll send you one. Fan of your channel, and it would be a way for me to support.
Kind of hard to get used to your new name hahastill allways a bit confused to who i subed when I see a video eith that T pop up
no such thing as HP-HIF. you want HP-HIL.
Damn, that's one of the worst fan swaps I've seen in a long time.
FTP and NFS?!
Wow...
I think you fucked up the text in the video. Its way too big and a lot of the text gets cut off.
Hello
He buys exotic hardware worth thousands but can't afford a 25 bucks Noctua fan...
So you spent 25 minutes replacing two fans? I am a fan of the channel but in the future I'll be sure to skip to the end right away to see if there is a payoff instead of a let down.
Sometimes the journey is more important than the destination. Its a shame you didn't find the information about the device interesting and that all you took from the video was a fan install
@@UnreasonableSteve I've watched every single post to this point and I have not been upset until now. The journey requires a conclusion, not a what if.