Greeks need a hero buff desperately. They rely on spamming myth units in order to deal with other myth units. They should buff their damage against myth units and/or allow them to Regen health but nerf their damage against human units.
As I see it. It’s not an issue that certain minor god are a default pick as long as the other option is better in certain situations. Same with major gods. With assymetric balance it doesn’t matter if one counters another heavily as long as the overall winrate of the faction/god isn’t out of control.
Not too long ago people on reddit were crying that Greek MUS are broken and way to cost efficient (after nerfs). They dont understand that Greek have to invest the most to get that favor and thus MUS. Ofc they are supposed to be powerfull. Here we have an actual pro/good player who would increase anubite/wadjet cost because Eggys basically get favor for free. Reddit however would say that those 2 units are somehow underpowered :D. Basically, it annoys me how many clueless people there are that voice their opinion without thinking shit through. They just glance at stats (Like a cyclops beeing tanky and having good damage) and immediately come to the conclusion that because of that, somehow Eggy myth units are bad lol. Also iam not a fan of nerfing "good" MUs, when you could instead buff "weak" MUS as a counterweight to strong MUs. Otherwhise we just keep nerfing every single MU until they are overall too weak.
I play Gaia only since release and I agree that overall she performs better than other gods. I can also go with nerfs like second Hesperide Tree has a longer cooldown or that each Tree gives a max of 4 Dryads and not 5 and Contarius nerf in generell like +5 gold cost. But pls keep in mind that Gaia herself has not one bonus that buffs any unit in any way. Also Atlanteans except Chiroballista(which still nobody rly builds) and Fanatics(Mythic Age + you need Palasts) have, with that in mind, only soft counters to infantry units. The eco buffs are Gaias identity and I think keeping the 40% less eco upgrade effect and having each tier one age earlier is completely fine.
I think that except for Greeks, the fact that all civs can spam infinite heroes definitely creates a balancing problem. You can't go wrong by going full human soldiers, the same is not true for MU. So the triangle "balance" is already unevenly tipped against Myth units (producing the counters to them doesn't put your army behind as much as going for heavy MU and getting countered). The issue this creates is that now, MU either need to be excessively strong to overcompesate and stay alive long enough to have value, or be considered useless because they don't offer enough value. And even when they are strong, you can't rely too much on them because later in the game heroes for Atlanteans, Eggy and Norse are so on-demand. I think that the game needs to either a new mass counter for human/hero units (such as mangonel on AoE2) that is weak against MU, but that sounds overtly complicated; or, make heroes for all civs be closer to what we expect from Greeks - a lot stronger in direct combat but limited in numbers. That way you can have MU be slightly weaker overall (so less early game cheese) but also enable them to be mass produced if your opponent lets you (late game power fantasy is less about human soldier balls)
Hoplites + Peltasts are not over performing either. Murmillo+Contarius beat that comp Raiding cav+berseek+throwing axeman is good too Axemen and hypaspists counter both hoplites and peltasts Camelry + chariot archers are also doing ok
Hi! With the axeman having 5x against infantry, what about giving it 0.5x against heroes? That essentially translates to a 2.5x multiplier to infantry-heroes. ie the hersir instead of taking 4×5=20 damage, takes 4×5×0.5=10 damage 🤔
Axeman Hack Res nerf and pierce res buff ? Would be worse vs north and somewhat equal vs the rest. Oracle nerf is also a nerf to attys MUs and I don’t think their MUs are THAT strong to begin with. If prometheans are too strong, just nerf them. Fanatics probably need a 10% hack armor boost. Or just finally tone down axeman/hypaspists.
I honestly do not think the Cyclops changes were a nerf, more of a re-design of how they work. The range of the AOE is now smaller but it deals full damage in the entire area. So basically hits fewer units but deals more damage per unit. Realistically pre change cyclops dealt next to no damage to the units at the end of the range anyways because the damage got smaller with distance
Thank you for the video. I would like for the Cheiroballista to get a buff or some sort of upgrade. Because I like it's concept and looks It's just that I'm not sure how it should get it. I saw a video a day or two ago where it was posited that it was perhaps a bit too expensive and it could get extra bolts flung, bolts punch through targets, gain benefit from Orichalcum Mail or less population cost. How would you guys go about upgrading the "handcart with pointy sticks"?
I do wonder if some counter units are too good in general. Take the Turma for example. It’s a counter unit but it’s being used as a general raiding unit. Situations like those make me wonder if their general damage is too good and it should be lowered with an even higher bonus against what they are supposed to counter or if it’s simply a lack of other options that causes them to be overly used.
I like Hetairoi having area damage as their unique trait, it's not the problem in of itself - the problem is it's too good. Lower the damage area from 2.5 to 2, lower the damage of the unit and/or nerf the Tracian Horses which gives them insane amount of hp back. Same for chariot - I don't want their uniqueness to be gone, which is their long range attack. The problem is the Bone Bow, which gives too much of it, just make it buff them in some other way but range, for example faster attack speed or faster arrows. Centaur should be speedy, that's a horse🐴 Buff Manticora, it's too weak. And buff freaking chieroballista!
Or maybe learn to play the game. Hetairoi, the way they are right now are losing to Thracian horses Prodromos, Bragi Hirdman, war elephants, and Katapeltes. Furthermore, they are way less effective if you simply use loose formation. If you start nerfing their stats they will become uber useless like myrmidons and Gastraphoretes
This is easily disprovable nonsense. Hetairoi DONT lose to anyone, 40 fully upgraded hetairoi beat any other unit or combination of units, it doesnt matter. Bragi Hirdmen, Horus spearmen, elephants, prodromos, etc. And the larger the armies the stronger they get. They eat everything. Maybe you are the one who should learn...
@@foreverjune8hetaroi are really strong with Thracian horses but you have to remember how expensive they are and also the fact that you can only train them from fortress so it’s really hard to mass them. Also without Thracian horses they actually feel quite weak or average at best.
Balance Master Boit, Hetairoi are fine, and you can counter them with the loose formation, you dont even need units to counter them, if anything they need a buff
Good video, as far as what you've covered, I agree that Fenris should get some more love, as using them in Campaign they are good, but it doesn't translate into multiplayer that much (based on people going Tyr just for fimblewinter). Now, as a Gaia main, I am curious to what you could to buff Leto and her Automatans, as Oceanus is just always the better choice as far as I've seen both personally and on those I've versed picking Gaia too. Also never really thought to garrison my oracles to protect them, so thanks for the tip hehe...
Thank you for the innovative approach. Definitly wanna discuss some stuff here: I am Gaia main BUT dryads need to be largely nerfed: - they don t cost pop, which is an extra 10 units when maxed (!!!) - they are damn strong (28dmg, good hp, myth, good armors) - they cost 150 wood. Keep in mind that gaia can cast wood, gather this wood faster, and get upgrades faster and cheaper.
Ok no problem 1. walking woods and ancestors: once a game, with limitted time and no further impact for the rest of the game - a do or die spell. Dryads: very strong against everything, no godpowercost, 10 extra units that make the difference in fight, ALL GAME LONG. ( @AvengerNk read the last three words carefully and several times ...)
Easy fix for the tree - Dryads are train for free on 90 second training time. There will be no longer timing attack with cavalery but its still a lucrative to play around it.
In aoe3 they changed the tag of some inf to cav (coyote runner & chimu, both are quick moving and perform the same role as cav more or less). Very well could work for the huskarl
Have to hard disagree on removing the throw damage to Cyclops. As a mainly Mythic Strike player, the aoe throw damage, especially onto an archer ball is very exciting (and helps comebacks). I'd prefer that they buff the radius back to how it was, and implement your villager bonus damage nerf. (Or if they could have a separate balance for ranked vs custom games, that'd work too.)
I feel like their are a lot of wierd god minor god choices, like Zeus not getting Aphrodite, Ra not getting Thoth & Oranus not getting Leto or Atlas. Feel like making it that Major Gods can oick any minor god could be a way to fix this.
Certain gods not getting certain minor gods is definitely part of design decisions. Oranos has probably the best set of choices to make in age2/3 with minor god choices out of Atlanteans, having access to implode on top of it would be bonkers.
@chimps121 they've already massively changed the balance from the base game, they can easily balance the game around having all minor god choices. Also Oranus is basically bottom tier at all ELO levels, having implode isn't going to suddenly make him OP
@@vladtc2732 at 1500+ elo they absolutely melt everything. Wadjet death balls are insanely good right now. They most likely will be nerfed in the next patch. The divine damage is too much.
I think Atlanten build their settlements way too quick without risk. I'd like to see a nerf there. They get their 2nd tc up faster than egyptian with Pharao empowerment.
How do Atlanteans build settlements without risk? Egyptians build faster than Atlanteans (except Kronos with multiple manors) and have the pharaoh, MU and maybe priest to defend. Norse build with their army. Greek build with one or two heroes and starter MU. Atlanteans generally go through Oceanus so they have 0 army to support them, they actually have the most risk lol. Kronos does his while harassing opponent with starter prometheans to avoid this risk. Greeks and egyptians often harass the town centre build (egyptian with shifting sands). If you're Loki/Odin you can just undermine it while it's being built. Not saying Atlantean aren't strong but I don't think this statement is true.
Greeks need a hero buff desperately. They rely on spamming myth units in order to deal with other myth units. They should buff their damage against myth units and/or allow them to Regen health but nerf their damage against human units.
As I see it. It’s not an issue that certain minor god are a default pick as long as the other option is better in certain situations. Same with major gods. With assymetric balance it doesn’t matter if one counters another heavily as long as the overall winrate of the faction/god isn’t out of control.
Great take.
Not too long ago people on reddit were crying that Greek MUS are broken and way to cost efficient (after nerfs). They dont understand that Greek have to invest the most to get that favor and thus MUS. Ofc they are supposed to be powerfull.
Here we have an actual pro/good player who would increase anubite/wadjet cost because Eggys basically get favor for free. Reddit however would say that those 2 units are somehow underpowered :D.
Basically, it annoys me how many clueless people there are that voice their opinion without thinking shit through. They just glance at stats (Like a cyclops beeing tanky and having good damage) and immediately come to the conclusion that because of that, somehow Eggy myth units are bad lol.
Also iam not a fan of nerfing "good" MUs, when you could instead buff "weak" MUS as a counterweight to strong MUs. Otherwhise we just keep nerfing every single MU until they are overall too weak.
Honestly right now you shouldn't even make greek MUs often, if you have athena you're better off just recasting restoration off cooldown
I play Gaia only since release and I agree that overall she performs better than other gods. I can also go with nerfs like second Hesperide Tree has a longer cooldown or that each Tree gives a max of 4 Dryads and not 5 and Contarius nerf in generell like +5 gold cost. But pls keep in mind that Gaia herself has not one bonus that buffs any unit in any way. Also Atlanteans except Chiroballista(which still nobody rly builds) and Fanatics(Mythic Age + you need Palasts) have, with that in mind, only soft counters to infantry units. The eco buffs are Gaias identity and I think keeping the 40% less eco upgrade effect and having each tier one age earlier is completely fine.
I just want more God tech upgrades
Me too. More tech in general...
Cant believe you start with greek nerfs
@@ElderHumpty 😂😂
I think that except for Greeks, the fact that all civs can spam infinite heroes definitely creates a balancing problem. You can't go wrong by going full human soldiers, the same is not true for MU. So the triangle "balance" is already unevenly tipped against Myth units (producing the counters to them doesn't put your army behind as much as going for heavy MU and getting countered).
The issue this creates is that now, MU either need to be excessively strong to overcompesate and stay alive long enough to have value, or be considered useless because they don't offer enough value. And even when they are strong, you can't rely too much on them because later in the game heroes for Atlanteans, Eggy and Norse are so on-demand.
I think that the game needs to either a new mass counter for human/hero units (such as mangonel on AoE2) that is weak against MU, but that sounds overtly complicated; or, make heroes for all civs be closer to what we expect from Greeks - a lot stronger in direct combat but limited in numbers. That way you can have MU be slightly weaker overall (so less early game cheese) but also enable them to be mass produced if your opponent lets you (late game power fantasy is less about human soldier balls)
I have never aeen a game where a norse had problem dealing with axemen.
Raiding cavalry exists and its the strongest cavalry of the game
Hoplites + Peltasts are not over performing either.
Murmillo+Contarius beat that comp
Raiding cav+berseek+throwing axeman is good too
Axemen and hypaspists counter both hoplites and peltasts
Camelry + chariot archers are also doing ok
Hi! With the axeman having 5x against infantry, what about giving it 0.5x against heroes? That essentially translates to a 2.5x multiplier to infantry-heroes. ie the hersir instead of taking 4×5=20 damage, takes 4×5×0.5=10 damage 🤔
That way it also stays fairly effective against atlantean heroized infantry!
Yeah, lets give it 15x infantries
then they are useless against any heroes that are not infantry
Bad. I already struggle to take down greek heroes, if a greek goes infantry + heroes at age 2 then I'll get stomped
Then they would do no damage against Ajax and atlanta and Hercules….
Axeman Hack Res nerf and pierce res buff ? Would be worse vs north and somewhat equal vs the rest.
Oracle nerf is also a nerf to attys MUs and I don’t think their MUs are THAT strong to begin with. If prometheans are too strong, just nerf them.
Fanatics probably need a 10% hack armor boost. Or just finally tone down axeman/hypaspists.
How would you feel about the idea of the fanatic being able to train from the counter barrack?
Nice video. Only downside that your picture blocks some hover texts on techs, units etc. Casual players dont remember everything on tech tree
Yeah I didn't notice that, very sorry 😭
I honestly do not think the Cyclops changes were a nerf, more of a re-design of how they work. The range of the AOE is now smaller but it deals full damage in the entire area. So basically hits fewer units but deals more damage per unit. Realistically pre change cyclops dealt next to no damage to the units at the end of the range anyways because the damage got smaller with distance
Lol it was a nerf. It reduced both damage from throw and the range of the aoe. I used cyclops all the time and they feel significantly weaker imo
Thank you for the video. I would like for the Cheiroballista to get a buff or some sort of upgrade. Because I like it's concept and looks It's just that I'm not sure how it should get it. I saw a video a day or two ago where it was posited that it was perhaps a bit too expensive and it could get extra bolts flung, bolts punch through targets, gain benefit from Orichalcum Mail or less population cost. How would you guys go about upgrading the "handcart with pointy sticks"?
I do wonder if some counter units are too good in general. Take the Turma for example. It’s a counter unit but it’s being used as a general raiding unit.
Situations like those make me wonder if their general damage is too good and it should be lowered with an even higher bonus against what they are supposed to counter or if it’s simply a lack of other options that causes them to be overly used.
I like you Boit and thank you for what you are doing for the community but you are like AI. 90% right and 10% halucinate.
I really disagree on making heteiros a muth unit killer. It will simply not work if he is not hero. Myrmidon is trash for the same reason.
why do norse have the strongest late game in detail?
Yeah a very strange statement.
Freyr and Thor mythic age Berserks straight up beat Athena hoplites for once.
Raiding cavalry is by far the strongest cavalry in the game.
insane favor generation for free
@@MrLakislazopoulosI disagree, dark water camels are better
I like Hetairoi having area damage as their unique trait, it's not the problem in of itself - the problem is it's too good. Lower the damage area from 2.5 to 2, lower the damage of the unit and/or nerf the Tracian Horses which gives them insane amount of hp back.
Same for chariot - I don't want their uniqueness to be gone, which is their long range attack. The problem is the Bone Bow, which gives too much of it, just make it buff them in some other way but range, for example faster attack speed or faster arrows.
Centaur should be speedy, that's a horse🐴
Buff Manticora, it's too weak.
And buff freaking chieroballista!
Or maybe learn to play the game.
Hetairoi, the way they are right now are losing to Thracian horses Prodromos, Bragi Hirdman, war elephants, and Katapeltes.
Furthermore, they are way less effective if you simply use loose formation.
If you start nerfing their stats they will become uber useless like myrmidons and Gastraphoretes
This is easily disprovable nonsense. Hetairoi DONT lose to anyone, 40 fully upgraded hetairoi beat any other unit or combination of units, it doesnt matter. Bragi Hirdmen, Horus spearmen, elephants, prodromos, etc. And the larger the armies the stronger they get. They eat everything.
Maybe you are the one who should learn...
@@foreverjune8hetaroi are really strong with Thracian horses but you have to remember how expensive they are and also the fact that you can only train them from fortress so it’s really hard to mass them. Also without Thracian horses they actually feel quite weak or average at best.
Also manticore are insane in groups
Balance Master Boit, Hetairoi are fine, and you can counter them with the loose formation, you dont even need units to counter them, if anything they need a buff
Good video, as far as what you've covered, I agree that Fenris should get some more love, as using them in Campaign they are good, but it doesn't translate into multiplayer that much (based on people going Tyr just for fimblewinter).
Now, as a Gaia main, I am curious to what you could to buff Leto and her Automatans, as Oceanus is just always the better choice as far as I've seen both personally and on those I've versed picking Gaia too.
Also never really thought to garrison my oracles to protect them, so thanks for the tip hehe...
Buff back Chaos.
Thank you for the innovative approach. Definitly wanna discuss some stuff here:
I am Gaia main BUT dryads need to be largely nerfed:
- they don t cost pop, which is an extra 10 units when maxed (!!!)
- they are damn strong (28dmg, good hp, myth, good armors)
- they cost 150 wood. Keep in mind that gaia can cast wood, gather this wood faster, and get upgrades faster and cheaper.
and now compare it to walking woods or ancestors which you get for free...
Ok no problem 1. walking woods and ancestors: once a game, with limitted time and no further impact for the rest of the game - a do or die spell. Dryads: very strong against everything, no godpowercost, 10 extra units that make the difference in fight, ALL GAME LONG. ( @AvengerNk read the last three words carefully and several times ...)
Easy fix for the tree - Dryads are train for free on 90 second training time. There will be no longer timing attack with cavalery but its still a lucrative to play around it.
In aoe3 they changed the tag of some inf to cav (coyote runner & chimu, both are quick moving and perform the same role as cav more or less). Very well could work for the huskarl
more greek nerfs and no buffs yep
Have to hard disagree on removing the throw damage to Cyclops. As a mainly Mythic Strike player, the aoe throw damage, especially onto an archer ball is very exciting (and helps comebacks). I'd prefer that they buff the radius back to how it was, and implement your villager bonus damage nerf. (Or if they could have a separate balance for ranked vs custom games, that'd work too.)
I feel like their are a lot of wierd god minor god choices, like Zeus not getting Aphrodite, Ra not getting Thoth & Oranus not getting Leto or Atlas.
Feel like making it that Major Gods can oick any minor god could be a way to fix this.
Certain gods not getting certain minor gods is definitely part of design decisions. Oranos has probably the best set of choices to make in age2/3 with minor god choices out of Atlanteans, having access to implode on top of it would be bonkers.
@chimps121 they've already massively changed the balance from the base game, they can easily balance the game around having all minor god choices.
Also Oranus is basically bottom tier at all ELO levels, having implode isn't going to suddenly make him OP
Honestly, wadjet always sucked. It is so slow and annoying to use because it always dies because it’s slower than your army
Wadjets right now are insanely good
@ send me a video where I can see how insanely good wadjets areand where they don’t die because they are slower than the rest of your army
@@vladtc2732 at 1500+ elo they absolutely melt everything. Wadjet death balls are insanely good right now. They most likely will be nerfed in the next patch. The divine damage is too much.
@@vladtc2732 You can see in genesis mista using it multiple times but there are countless other examples.
I think Atlanten build their settlements way too quick without risk. I'd like to see a nerf there. They get their 2nd tc up faster than egyptian with Pharao empowerment.
How do Atlanteans build settlements without risk? Egyptians build faster than Atlanteans (except Kronos with multiple manors) and have the pharaoh, MU and maybe priest to defend. Norse build with their army. Greek build with one or two heroes and starter MU. Atlanteans generally go through Oceanus so they have 0 army to support them, they actually have the most risk lol. Kronos does his while harassing opponent with starter prometheans to avoid this risk. Greeks and egyptians often harass the town centre build (egyptian with shifting sands). If you're Loki/Odin you can just undermine it while it's being built. Not saying Atlantean aren't strong but I don't think this statement is true.