Making AEROSPACE DAMASCUS??
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- Опубліковано 1 жов 2020
- Make sure to check out Sackin Metals if you need any of these types of materials. www.sackinmetal.com/
Attempting to take two aerospace materials Niobium and Maragaing steel and forge weld them together in the blacksmith shop today. Hoping to be able to pull this off and then use this material to make some projects out of! Thanks for watching.
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The way you go in at these projects by trying ideas and thinking about whats happened, whats going to happen and how it turned out is your best teacher! Cool stuff tim!
Tim, if you want to do version 2.0 of your aerospace damascus idea, ask your supplier/sponsor if they can get you PH 13-8 Mo (AMS5629, XM-13, UNS S13800).
It is also martensitic, it is also very low in carbon (max. 0.03 wt%) and it is compatible with the aging temperature of MAR250, meaning you can precipitation harden your damascus at 950°F and get both component grades to high hardness!
PH 13-8 Mo is also considered to be an aerospace grade and it will be interesting to combine with MAR250 because both are martensitic and heat treatment compatible, but the 13% Cr in PH 13-8 Mo makes it a stainless steel grade.
If PH 13-8 Mo is not available, try getting either 15-5 PH (UNS S15500, XM-12, AMS5659) or 17-4 PH (UNS S17400, type 630, AMS5643), both are also martensitic, can also precipitation harden at 950 °F, but they are not so low in carbon.
Right, next time, after getting a heart, I should *not* edit the post, not even for correcting typos. Heart/like goes away.
If you do manage to get PH 13-8 Mo, you will have a valid excuse to play around with dry ice and acetone because PH 13-8 Mo benefits from a cold treatment after solution annealing. Soaking it at -78 °C / -100 °F after solution annealing will transform the left-over austenite to martensite, improving mechanical properties even further after aging/precipitation hardening.
Thanks man! Appreciate the info, I definitely have lots to learn about this all! Thanks for your time.
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Uhhm if u forge it doesn’t the martensit diffuse back to ferrit/perlit/cementite? Parts? Because it gets heat treatment while forging so its kind of a tempering? Idk explain pls
Sry for my bad language i am nit native speaker
@@user-mf7li2eb1o The PH grades are stainless steel martensitic. After forging the steel needs a solution heat treatment, which passes AC1 and AC3 to 1050 ⁰C / 1950 ⁰F or so, so fully into austenite structure, and a cool down to room temp where it fully transforms back. At that point it's martensitic again.
Precipitation hardening (ageing) follows afterwards and is a relatively low temperature heat treatment so you keep the martensitic structure, with in some cases a little bit of newly formed austenite, depending on which temperature you decide to age.
I don't think you overheated it. This is common in CuMai forging because copper has a low melting point compared to steel. Basically, the material melts and becomes like solder between the layers. You just have to weld it airtight and then don't hit it after it gets to temp (maybe a light tap or two if you have gaps between your layers). Let it cool and consolidate on it's own.
Oh we knew it was coming, and we've been patiently waiting!
coming back every single day to make extra sure I don't miss the next video! I am really excited for this!
C250/C300 Margin Steel round bar circle ⭕ Read
10mm to 80mm Rod Bar FORGING and export
40mm w 300mm X 6mm to 75mm THK palat
How can I resist subscribing to a channel with a legitimate mad scientist? You are experimenting with metals I will probably never even see, but I can't tell you how much I enjoy your approach and your candor.
The REAL way would be to take the stack & drop it from Space & let it Heat Up on Re-Entry
No "Failure" is a failure, as such. I love how you appreciate the deeper "Learning experience" underneath the surface.
Fascinating to see how the two molded together
It would be interesting to hammer a chisel into that and see how well the layers are really bonded. This is pretty fascinating. Thanks for your hard work.
To have a better matching melting point you should go for Inconel/niobium layers. If you want to make it hot enough you will need to go for induction heating.
Browns start at 18v, blues start in the 20's, greens are in the mid 40's (very tight window), brassy colors are in the high 50's-mid 60s, and the purples are in the mid60-70's. I'm using TSB detergent as my electrolytic solution. Good luck!
Just depending on voltage, no influence of dwell time?
Dwell time strongly relies on accurate voltage regulation. Dwell time only increases the depth of the color. Most companies don’t increase dwell time as it doesn’t increase the surfaces hardness or ability to retain color when damaged. The longer the dwell the more likely color irregularities can present themselves as voltage across the object is not evenly dissipated.
Is this on titanium or Niobium? I am using the liquid TSB detergent, seemed to work pretty good on the titanium hammer I made awhile ago. Thanks for your help and info, I appreciate your time.
@@TimothyDyck they both act very similar in my personal experience.
Something like s60v might be a good choice for welding to maraging steel to.. You might need to do it in a sealed canister or with an electric furnace with an argon atmosphere as s60v is a stainless steel. The reason for choosing s60v is that it has a high tempering temperature, so if you could get the two welded, you could harden with specs for the s60v, which should not affect the maraging steel, but then temper at 900F for 4-5 hours, which should leave the s60v at a 50-55 Rc but also result in the maraging precipitating martensite and carbides, also ending up around 50-55Rc... Not the hardest steel, but should be very usable in a blade and may be all but unbreakable..
An alternative would be to get maraging TIG rod (yes, that's a thing) and weld it to regular steel, or conversely, get tool steel welding rod and weld to the maraging...
S60v is good steel but acquiring a pattern will be difficult given the nickel and chromium and lack of carbon.
for those temperatures, wouldnt HSS be better? something like m42 or m4 would still be 65hrc at 900f. no idea how itd weld though
Next time try welding the niobium in place onto the canister so that it doesnt move. It should prevent condensing and will allow a more even damascus. Keep it up and if you need any more ideas I'm a blacksmith too so I can always try to help.
Martin is the always the badass. Wish he went with you to the new shop.
niobium and titanium might work well together since they both have high melting temperatures or maybe tungsten. lots of fun rare elements that have some pretty cool aspects
Tim wow your videos are always interesting to see because you always are testing different kinds of mutuals. learning as you go it's always very cool to see. Can't wait to see how this space Damascus goes for you both. Keep up the great craftsmanship and hard work and education of this beautiful craft. Forge on tim.
Interesting. You did solder niobium plates with steel. Niobium melts in 2477C, which is 1000C more than steel. No risk to melt that in a forge. That material could have some interesting properties so I hope you revisit this again.
Maybe drilling Niobium and then put shavings into that container with steel
Great Video! Keep it up!!!!
I can't stop drooling over your forge! Really neat idea forging those two materials! That is outside the box thinking man. It is important to keep things fresh and continue experimenting and learning along the way! Great channel here man! Thank you!
But it's so warm and safe Inside the Box.
You have no idea how satisfying this is to watch.
Thank you for this special treat.
That was so cool looking in the end! Very INTERESTING!
Awesome video. That cross-section was fascinating. Thanks for sharing.
Super hyped for the continuation of this! I love you style of vids!
Awesome sauce 😎
Can’t wait to see what’s ahead on this !!
Yeah cant wait for more of this
Great idea, loved seeing your thought process. Really interesting
Very cool experiments !
You should handle your Niobium with gloves. Certain people's sweat can etch the material while other people are actually allergic. I learned this when I worked at the NSCL in Michigan.
Super unique pattern you ended up with. Would be really cool to see more testing with these materials together
Very interesting result.
Great video! a very unique experiment with some fascinating results to, You've given me some great ideas for my youtube videos.
Its like being a post apocalyptic blacksmith that either just raided a nasa facility or has a workshop that he runs out of one
Timothy, I believe that the perfect combination for that Damascus is the Niobium with titanium! I know that would be little expensive, but you can anodize both and obtain different colors of material with the same process!! About this experience it's like you said! It's not a failure but a learning experience!!
Would those 2 metals fuse together? They should yes, but has anyone tried it. I think it would look amazing no doubt.
@@erikcourtney1834 there is a gap between 800º Celsius on the melting point between materials!! Maybe because of that nobody tries! Plus it's a expensive!!
First class effort, for a material you no very little about, it went pretty good even though it's not the results you were hoping for.
Thank you! Your awesome man! Extremely interesting info. Keep up the good work. I am looking forward to your next video's.
This your first video ive watched. N i love it. U got a one new subscriber from Malaysia bro. Keep it up. I love your work. This is your things , u r good at it
TIM!! THANKS MAN!! SUBSCRIBED!!
Man Timothy you really do come up with some really awesome ideas!!
Great job! The end result may not have been exactly what you wanted or hoped for but giving it a go and taking a chance to learn something new is awesome. Hope to see you keep going and trying new things like this. Failure or not its great to see just what happens. Keep up the hard work. 👍🚀🔥🥇
Well you don't really have to forget weld it. It almost cast itself in the canister. If the stuff that melted is still strong after it cools down you could heat it back up (hopefully without melting it) and forge it out. If the other metal in the canister was tac welded together into a pattern it should keep that shape and the other stuff should fill in all the gaps. You might be able to make something cool out of it.
Idk if you understand that word vomit of a thought but I'm not words-ing good right now lol
Fascinating!
What if you encased some lower melting point metals in a nyobian case. Those metals can melt and maybe swirl some. Then let it cool cut of case, and work with that billet. I think pattern might be interesting.
This was realy interesting, looks like this can probably be useful as metal "glue" for a lot of applications.
Can't wait for the next video of this...
You put that block on the anvil, and I was amused to see you apparently using the titanium hammer you made in the video I watched just a couple of days ago. I'm glad you like it enough to use it for this!
love it!
Part of me wants to see osmium/iridium Damascus, but that would be both insanely expensive and really hard on any of your tooling.
I think osmium in powder form can form osmium tetroxide, which is toxic. That also probably puts a damper into the idea.
melting the welds was a really obvious problem when you were making the canister LOL cool vid though!
Good thing you didnt use the power hammer. Lol would have hurt. But it dose look really cool how it turned out. Nice job great vid. The blupers where funny 😆
Very cool epic fail. Definitely looking forward to your further explorations in this material!
Very interesting !!!!!!!!!!!!!
Now THIS is really interesting. I hope to see powder steel damascus,titanium damascus and other cool stuff one day)
Man... that last blooper had me rolling!
DUDE! You should try to encase some regular damascus metal inside of that stuff and try to melt it and just let it cool without tampering it and see how it looks like when they combine. Like melt the metals and let it cool then forge something from it after peeling the casing Off first 💪
Before you started swinging the hammer, I was having serious flash backs to that Mythbusters episode where they did the exploding jawbreakers. That could have been bad. To quote The Simpsons, "Ze goggles, zey do nothing!".
anodized niobium makes nice earring hooks. i used to use it when i used to make jewelry
Fantastic video fantastic channel well done TD.👍🇬🇧🍺🤘
Amazing video!! Im your Québec fan #1 ;)
very cool
People like him are the kind of people that end up discovering new alloys, forging techniques and other game changing stuff!
The only failure is to fail to learn. That is the definition of mistake
Haven't watched the full vid yet, but if you want a bit more commercial variety, Inconel 718 and Vanadium would make a really slick aerospace damascus.
I would like to see you try "TItanium & Steel" Damascus. I dont know if that is possible but I really like the Idea of a Knife or Sword made out of that
This channel is so underrated. Love your stuff. Great editing and filming. You also seem like a hell of a dude to kick a beer back with. Keep the stuff coming!
Hi Timothy - like your experiments - that´s the way to find out what´s possible... Maybe a way to connect the niobium with maraging steel is with diffusion welding. Both materials should work good with this process. That just as a first step to get a layer structure with a good bonding. After that forging should be possible.
A really cool experiment, l think that the 2 melting point are too much difference. But love the fact that you are experimenting. Also like seeing the big guns on your videos
Interesting, I have no idea what's what but it's still interesting.
Might be interesting to create a funky mix in a canister
I bet you could put some niobium spacers along the side to keep them from collapsing in the liquid steel. Getting them to be the exact thickness of the steel plates would be the trick tho. Neat idea overall. :)
Love your video
You could mix the Metals by first melting the Niobium and the putting the other Steel inside. But If You Do, it could happen that the Niobium splashes, because of the different melting Temperatures, maybe increasing the Steel's One, slowly
Polished and etched thst looked like an X-ray image.
You should use thicker niobium and weld the whole billet... that should decrease the impurity saturation. Just a thought.
I wonder if you heated the two metals separately and then forged what you wanted in one shot, before it totally cooled. Or, have your buddy stand there with the torch as you forge to extend the time you have?
I just wanna say...
You not only make great content, but your creativity is second to none. Even I can't compete with that.
Excellent work and how goes the titanium knife project?
great to see someone using a respirator. Consider switching to a full-face (or getting a swing-down face shield). The acids used in anodizing can really bad if they happen to splash into an eye. And if you can smell the tanks, you shouldn't be breathing that air unfiltered...
12:54 This looks so sick!!
You could also melt the metals In an inert atmosphere then forge it out
Bend or cut the high temp steel and weld it into a cool pattern, then put it in a canister and allow the maraging steel to melt around it. Could make some really cool mosaic tiles!
fascinating
Would be interesting to put really hard steel alloy for the blade and this for the spine on a latana
You could work on controling that melt and get some sweet tiles for tile welding Damascus. That looks really great the way it is !!!
I was worried at the powerhammer would cause the case to burst and throw molten steel. Scary stuff
The problem trying to match pure niobium to steel is that niobium and iron have a eutectic point where the melting point is as low as about 2500F. Even though the melting point of the two metals is much higher, the Nb dissolves into the steel until there is enough to lower the melting point. That looks like what happened here.
Even if you did manage to forge weld this at lower temperatures, it probably wouldn't be useful for knife making as the combination of Nb + Fe forms some hard and brittle phases which would ruin the properties of the steel.
Niobium is used in a lot of steels at tiny percentages, and nickel superalloys use about 4%, but applications for pure niobium are virtually non-existent.
Niobium is one component used in VERY LOW %'s to make Cro-Mo Steel into Tool Steel. I'm thinking the Niobium plates sacrificed a thin layer to the Maraging Steel, and made a Tool-type alloy. This stuff demolished his cutting wheels and other tools 🤣
100k subscribers incoming
Hi Tim. I did some research, and I found that in order to make a Damascus type artistic look you would need a much closer melting point. Because the difference between steel and niobium is so great it is difficult to control the reaction. I also found that tantalum has a much closer melting point to niobium of 3017°C. Niobium being 2477°C, could give you that Damascus style you're looking for without it being so difficult to work with. Niobium has a similar ductility to iron. I belive that if you preheat the tantalum, then add the niobium in layers alternating between the two while you forge it, could yield better results without melting the niobium.
Also; using the box seemed to have been working well. Perhaps a flat tool that fits in the box in combination with the hydrologic press could help in keeping the pieces organized.
Hey guy!
The design that was generated was very cool, something like abstract modern art, you could cut a slice from that block with that design and make a pendant or some other artifact. The flaw was worth it, you could even make new designs by melting the metal that way. Next time try forging the niobium with metals with a similar melting point.👍
Nice
If you're still interested in the tool steel side of this experiment, you could maybe try damascus made of A-10 and M-4. The A-10 has 2 percent nickel, and they're both high-alloy, so should be 'sort of' compatible for forge welding.
Plus, tool-steel damascus should be plenty tough and sharp, and maybe even kinda cheap compared to the exotics you've been tinkering with.
What kind of camera / lens setup do you use? I love your cinematic close-up shots!
You should enclose chips of both Niobium and Maragaing in a Niobium case. The maragaing would melt around the Niobium chips making a cool pattern.
I love that you never know if everything is going to work. Most UA-cam channels only show positive outcomes, like you watch a Disney cartoon...
Does this mean you're going to finish the zirconium knife or show the last part in finishing the side blast forge? I've seen you using it but it would have been nice to see the finishing and the install and the first firing up of it...
You should clean it up and slice it into dog tags. You need one of those water cooled coil induction furnace thing things for that 4kF material.
Come on Tim, have a crack at pattern welded titanium. You know you want to :)
You had me subscribed at Niobium. You'll have a like for every video at tantalum
Try niobium with a ti/ni/zr combo. Stacking and pairing of materials is crucial, tho.
Is it still classed as forge welding if you melt one material to completely encase the other?
Super ❤️❤️😘
Next thing you know he's making aluminum damascus! Wootz tin! lol