I've seen the canting machine chipper heads at the Canal Flats sawmill when they shut them off for maintenance, and I estimate that it takes them about 5-7 minutes to come to a complete stop.
Once picked up a load at a Polly mill. They use large blowers to fill these long big bags full of Polly for furniture. I was at the dock waiting when I heard this awful scream. I looked over and this guy had this look of absolute horror on his face and at first i thought he had a bandana on his one of his hands then I realized his hand had been shredded. His thumb was having about a foot from his arm and he was bleeding everywhere. Turns out it was his first day on the job and he went to clean out the blower but no one told him the blower freewheels for a bit after you shut off the machine. It was a mess found out later he lost his arm almost up to his elbow. It only takes a second folks, if you don't know it's best to ask or just don't mess with it.
Proper lockout procedure requires all potential energies be controlled. I would argue that the mills aren't even locked out until you arrest the blades.
Olórin they're not. And if the blades can rotate under an external power source (like someone stepping on them) they need to be locked in a way to prevent them from turning as well. On a different note, why the hell would anybody reach into or, god forbid, CLIMB into, one of these saws without first checking to make sure the blades actually stopped? I don't want to blame the victims here, but goddamn people, use some common sense (I promise you won't run out if you use too much of it).
Did you all miss step 3? Wait until blades come to a complete stop. Then test. And locking the blades into position so they cannot rotate with human power would make cleaning and removing debris impossible and/or ineffective. These guys reached into running saws, no different than unplugging a table saw after making a cut, then leaning on the cutting deck without stopping or lowering the blade.
I was working in a factory where product was moved with material screws for conveyance. I locked out the machine, and during maintenance dropped a wrench I was working with into the screw area. I retrieved the wrench, and seconds later, the screw fired up on its own. Apparently, its power have been routed up from the floor below. So beware of circuits that may not be 100% de-energized.
2 stories- A guy who ran a huge table sized belt sander hit the off switch for his 10 am 15 minute break. Pulled a cigarette out, lit it, and turned to chat with the person who rang the machine behind his... as they chatted he sat on the sander. The drums were still spinning. In just 1 second he was on the belt it took off the seat of his pants and the skin off his ass- It was rumored it took an inch off his Johnson, too- a rumor that gained traction when his wife left him 6 weeks after the accident. In China I was sourcing and setting up a production line that employed a large rotational casting machine. We found a company that made an Okay machine- so I went with the factory owner to talk to the company rep and order a machine with some special mods. I told him, thru the company owner as translator, that I wanted a separate motor and speed control for both axies of rotation. The guy said no problem. Then I said I wanted two huge red Kill Switch buttons within arms reach of the turning platters- one on each side that would stop the rotation dead within a hundredth of a second. The owner turned to me before even asking and said “ what’s that for?” I said if someone got their clothes or something caught in the turning platter, it would wrap them around the spindle like taffy, and kill them rather gruesomely. His response was “ Yeah, so? “. I thought for a few seconds... then said , “if a guy gets wrapped around the spindle, we will have to disassemble the whole machine to get his remains out of the works... the production line will be shut down for an entire day or two.” He immediately turned to the factory rep and told him in mandarin that we needed two big red kill switches on the machine.
It's all about money in the end. If only we could make safety profitable... Oh wait it is, I guess they really don't see people as people only as money generators. These companies can't sweep all the accidents under the rug.
It's scary how prevalent things like that are in China. I work for a company the builds manufacturing laser equipment and we have special "low cost" models just for them. Without E-stops and the other interlocks are jumped out with a connection block they can easily make for the back panel. I've seen pictures of someone in an aluminum shed, tank top, shorts, bare foot in the mud. Output cable slung over his shoulder, holding the output with his bare hands cutting metal. It's horrifying how little regard for human life some of these people have.
In China, the value of the nation is far more than the value of the individual. With 2 billion people, they've grown callous to the needs of each person. Wonder why most mine collapses are in China? Nobody cares about safety there. Takes too much time, and it's too expensive for training and equipment. I once saw a video of a press operator who had his hand squished flat by a press run out of the factory, screaming in pain. There are good Chinese people out there, but the CCP in that nation determines your fate, whether you like it or not. And all too often, that fate is to be ground up (sometimes literally) in the industrial machine of progress.
These mills are medieval. With large unguarded blades spinning and chain conveyors automatically operating. I've seen carbide tips fly off 4' saw blades and travel over 100 yards into warehouse roofs. Proper lockout (LOTO) procedures require more than turning off electrical power. It requires stopping all energy around the machinery including but not limited to hydraulic, spring tension, gravity and centrifugal. I was there when a welder lost his life working through lunch next to a gantry crane that was not locked out. After lunch a millwright 50' below started moving the crane. The crane's wheels ran over the welder's leg at his groin, severing an artery. He died because of an improper LOTO procedure. LOTO procedures are not to be taken lightly.
Those people should have remembered that when you switch something off it might not stop dead but actually take some time to spin down or cool down. Reminds me of a story where a worker cooked himself in a giant conveyor-oven by ignoring a rule to let it cool down for 4 hours and instead climbed onto the conveyor with his toolbox after just one hour, needless to say he wasn't alive when he came out the other end.
A true proper lockout would include physically blocking or wedging the blades so they cannot move preferably via an engineered system with a lock out point to apply a lock. Such as locking a valve open or closed. All forms of energy must be removed and rendered inert.
Ross Arnold wouldn't hurt the blades at all. Just have the brake stop the shaft the blades are mounted to, maybe even have a section of shaft made it out stronger material specifically for this. Does it destroy your break rotor every time you stop your car? Not at all, and that is a hell of a lot more mass and momentum than a set of saw blades. People like you, who automatically say oh no that will hurt the machine, or oh no, we can't do that, instead of taking (in this case literally about 3 seconds) time to think of a solution to prevent this kind of thing from happening are part of the reason this shit continues to happen, along with an overwhelming lack of common sense. Further more, a setup like this could be used not only to stop the saw before performing maintenance, it could be lockable to prevent the saw from moving any time during said maintenance operation, and could even be coupled with the power disconnect on the E-stop to quickly bring the saw to a halt in case of an emergency. But no, you don't want to damage the blades.....just fuckin wow.
@@pvtimberfaller people who say shit like you are saying are the reason dumb shit happens in the first place. Signs are necessary. Always. Otherwise you're relying on some boomer who is training you to either tell you or not. Hell they might tell you to do something dangerous and you would defer to them being more experienced. A sign in that situation might save your life. I swear you have to be extra stupid to think signs aren't necessary. I can't even tell you how many times i've been told to do something and had to tell the supervisor no because of a sign on the machinery saying not to do that. They bitch and moan only to later find out that they almost got you killed.
stevo450ify yeah....like at least check to make sure the thing who's sole purpose is to chop big things up into little bitty things is no longer actually spinning? Wow...
seriously - wouldn't you be able to HEAR the saw blades spinning?? I imagine a saw mill is a loud place but still I doubt the damn saws were some kind of whisper quiet high grade equipment. Gotta be real dumb to climb into a machine that has JUST been turned off.
There are monitoring relays that recognises that equipment is rotating and these can be connected to an electrical lock on the access doors. You cannot open them until the blades have stopped.
@HitachiZaxis450LC Waiting ten minutes for a sawblade to stop running is annoying, boring, and you are often in a hurry. Stupid? Maybe. But understandable.
lol understandable if you're a fucking boomer moron who licks the bosses boots. in a hurry for what?? to make the owner some more money? to say look how fast i can work? to get your arm cut off for that is just pathetic
Yeah, and having all of your body parts is overrated... I mean who wouldn’t rather lose an arm or a leg rather than be bored or annoyed with waiting 10 minutes? What a bonehead comment.
THEY NEED EMERGENCY STOP MECHANISMS N I KNOW THEY SAY THEY HAVE THEM BUT THEY DONT. THE MACHINES COME TO A STOP SO IT DOESNT RUIN THE MACHINE IF IT COMPLETELY STOPPED THEY ARE WORRIED ABOUT THEIR MACHINES SO MACHINES ARE MADE TO SLOWLY STOP N THE "EMERGENCY" IS COMPLETELY POINTLESS.
How did that happen? The operators knew the blades continue to spin, every machine operator knows what the machines they run do. They could see spinning blades, why did they stick their limbs into blades they knew were spinning?
![Lockout Tagout Training Video [Employee OSHA Training on LOTO]](/img/n.gif)
For more information and resources on de-energization and lockout, visit www.worksafebc.com/lockout.
I've seen the canting machine chipper heads at the Canal Flats sawmill when they shut them off for maintenance, and I estimate that it takes them about 5-7 minutes to come to a complete stop.
Most of the equipment I have worked on used the VFD as a regenerative brake that would stop the head in a few seconds.
Once picked up a load at a Polly mill.
They use large blowers to fill these long big bags full of Polly for furniture.
I was at the dock waiting when I heard this awful scream.
I looked over and this guy had this look of absolute horror on his face and at first i thought he had a bandana on his one of his hands then I realized his hand had been shredded.
His thumb was having about a foot from his arm and he was bleeding everywhere.
Turns out it was his first day on the job and he went to clean out the blower but no one told him the blower freewheels for a bit after you shut off the machine.
It was a mess found out later he lost his arm almost up to his elbow.
It only takes a second folks, if you don't know it's best to ask or just don't mess with it.
Proper lockout procedure requires all potential energies be controlled. I would argue that the mills aren't even locked out until you arrest the blades.
I'd second that. It should be impossible for the blades to even move.
Olórin they're not. And if the blades can rotate under an external power source (like someone stepping on them) they need to be locked in a way to prevent them from turning as well. On a different note, why the hell would anybody reach into or, god forbid, CLIMB into, one of these saws without first checking to make sure the blades actually stopped? I don't want to blame the victims here, but goddamn people, use some common sense (I promise you won't run out if you use too much of it).
@@TheMattc999 fatigue
Did you all miss step 3? Wait until blades come to a complete stop. Then test.
And locking the blades into position so they cannot rotate with human power would make cleaning and removing debris impossible and/or ineffective.
These guys reached into running saws, no different than unplugging a table saw after making a cut, then leaning on the cutting deck without stopping or lowering the blade.
Good point. Physically lock the blades to prevent them from ever spinning.
In both accidents, maybe you should look at the blades and see if they are spinning before putting a limb next to it
It becomes routine, they must be spinning silently too.
i bet you can't always tell by looking
I was working in a factory where product was moved with material screws for conveyance.
I locked out the machine, and during maintenance dropped a wrench I was working with into the screw area. I retrieved the wrench, and seconds later, the screw fired up on its own.
Apparently, its power have been routed up from the floor below. So beware of circuits that may not be 100% de-energized.
Oh.. Multiple sources of energy... You have to lock them all out
WorkSafeBC makes me think that 50% of Canadians die or lose a limb in logging & lumber related accidents
the other 50% seems to be entanglement in farm equipment. YIKES
2 stories- A guy who ran a huge table sized belt sander hit the off switch for his 10 am 15 minute break. Pulled a cigarette out, lit it, and turned to chat with the person who rang the machine behind his... as they chatted he sat on the sander. The drums were still spinning. In just 1 second he was on the belt it took off the seat of his pants and the skin off his ass- It was rumored it took an inch off his Johnson, too- a rumor that gained traction when his wife left him 6 weeks after the accident.
In China I was sourcing and setting up a production line that employed a large rotational casting machine. We found a company that made an Okay machine- so I went with the factory owner to talk to the company rep and order a machine with some special mods. I told him, thru the company owner as translator, that I wanted a separate motor and speed control for both axies of rotation. The guy said no problem. Then I said I wanted two huge red Kill Switch buttons within arms reach of the turning platters- one on each side that would stop the rotation dead within a hundredth of a second. The owner turned to me before even asking and said “ what’s that for?” I said if someone got their clothes or something caught in the turning platter, it would wrap them around the spindle like taffy, and kill them rather gruesomely. His response was “ Yeah, so? “. I thought for a few seconds... then said , “if a guy gets wrapped around the spindle, we will have to disassemble the whole machine to get his remains out of the works... the production line will be shut down for an entire day or two.” He immediately turned to the factory rep and told him in mandarin that we needed two big red kill switches on the machine.
No humanity in that guy.
It's all about money in the end. If only we could make safety profitable... Oh wait it is, I guess they really don't see people as people only as money generators. These companies can't sweep all the accidents under the rug.
It's scary how prevalent things like that are in China. I work for a company the builds manufacturing laser equipment and we have special "low cost" models just for them. Without E-stops and the other interlocks are jumped out with a connection block they can easily make for the back panel.
I've seen pictures of someone in an aluminum shed, tank top, shorts, bare foot in the mud. Output cable slung over his shoulder, holding the output with his bare hands cutting metal. It's horrifying how little regard for human life some of these people have.
In China, the value of the nation is far more than the value of the individual. With 2 billion people, they've grown callous to the needs of each person. Wonder why most mine collapses are in China? Nobody cares about safety there. Takes too much time, and it's too expensive for training and equipment. I once saw a video of a press operator who had his hand squished flat by a press run out of the factory, screaming in pain. There are good Chinese people out there, but the CCP in that nation determines your fate, whether you like it or not. And all too often, that fate is to be ground up (sometimes literally) in the industrial machine of progress.
@@BeardyOfIron The only reason they aren't prevalent here ANYMORE is that people litteraly fought and died for it.
TLDR join a union
These mills are medieval. With large unguarded blades spinning and chain conveyors automatically operating. I've seen carbide tips fly off 4' saw blades and travel over 100 yards into warehouse roofs. Proper lockout (LOTO) procedures require more than turning off electrical power. It requires stopping all energy around the machinery including but not limited to hydraulic, spring tension, gravity and centrifugal.
I was there when a welder lost his life working through lunch next to a gantry crane that was not locked out. After lunch a millwright 50' below started moving the crane. The crane's wheels ran over the welder's leg at his groin, severing an artery. He died because of an improper LOTO procedure.
LOTO procedures are not to be taken lightly.
Those people should have remembered that when you switch something off it might not stop dead but actually take some time to spin down or cool down. Reminds me of a story where a worker cooked himself in a giant conveyor-oven by ignoring a rule to let it cool down for 4 hours and instead climbed onto the conveyor with his toolbox after just one hour, needless to say he wasn't alive when he came out the other end.
Haha what's cooking joe😂😂😂
Surely he could walk out when the heat got to him? Do you have a link for that story?
@@alexanderbreitschaedel9070 we're cooking joe mom
@@MaximilianonMars Human senses are not sharp enough for that, as far as I can guess. Maybe it's just like deodorization
Why would you reach into a saw while its still spinning.. people lack common sense.
common sense doesn't exist. that's why we have safety protocols.
"Done it a hundred times... see? just gotta step here and it will be alright" is my guess
Yes- all fast spinning maschines are really dangerous- thanks for the video to sharpen workers minds!
Take care
Alexander
wtf is this boomer shit
these videos are damn good tools of knowledge
Thanks for sharing those sad events. It will hopefully save worker's life !
A true proper lockout would include physically blocking or wedging the blades so they cannot move preferably via an engineered system with a lock out point to apply a lock. Such as locking a valve open or closed. All forms of energy must be removed and rendered inert.
There should be a brake to stop the blades from spinning when you shut the saw off. Just an on/off clamp on one of the blades would work...
That would ruin the blade.
Ross Arnold
What is more valuable the blade or a body part?
Put a sign that says make sure blades have stopped before working on machine.
You have no clue how this stuff works. Oh & one more sign means nothing, if you need a sign, you are in the wrong job.
Ross Arnold wouldn't hurt the blades at all. Just have the brake stop the shaft the blades are mounted to, maybe even have a section of shaft made it out stronger material specifically for this. Does it destroy your break rotor every time you stop your car? Not at all, and that is a hell of a lot more mass and momentum than a set of saw blades. People like you, who automatically say oh no that will hurt the machine, or oh no, we can't do that, instead of taking (in this case literally about 3 seconds) time to think of a solution to prevent this kind of thing from happening are part of the reason this shit continues to happen, along with an overwhelming lack of common sense. Further more, a setup like this could be used not only to stop the saw before performing maintenance, it could be lockable to prevent the saw from moving any time during said maintenance operation, and could even be coupled with the power disconnect on the E-stop to quickly bring the saw to a halt in case of an emergency. But no, you don't want to damage the blades.....just fuckin wow.
@@pvtimberfaller people who say shit like you are saying are the reason dumb shit happens in the first place. Signs are necessary. Always. Otherwise you're relying on some boomer who is training you to either tell you or not. Hell they might tell you to do something dangerous and you would defer to them being more experienced. A sign in that situation might save your life. I swear you have to be extra stupid to think signs aren't necessary. I can't even tell you how many times i've been told to do something and had to tell the supervisor no because of a sign on the machinery saying not to do that. They bitch and moan only to later find out that they almost got you killed.
Ok I don't mean to be mean but seriously you got to have a bit more sense than to step in a spinning machine... Seriously...
stevo450ify yeah....like at least check to make sure the thing who's sole purpose is to chop big things up into little bitty things is no longer actually spinning? Wow...
seriously - wouldn't you be able to HEAR the saw blades spinning?? I imagine a saw mill is a loud place but still I doubt the damn saws were some kind of whisper quiet high grade equipment. Gotta be real dumb to climb into a machine that has JUST been turned off.
There are monitoring relays that recognises that equipment is rotating and these can be connected to an electrical lock on the access doors. You cannot open them until the blades have stopped.
Why not WAIT for the blades to stop??
Those blades takes a min or two to completely stop. My guess, to save time, they do this most of time knowing the danger, but this time he slipped.
From what I observed the story told to authorities almost never reflects real events. All commenting here should keep it in mind.
Things like this terrify me. just a moment of not thinking to keep the work flowing
This foot stool looks like a spinning circular blade!
101 ways to pass time with covid
A cant believe he lost a limb.
Horrific
Ensure they can't spin freely.
@HitachiZaxis450LC Waiting ten minutes for a sawblade to stop running is annoying, boring, and you are often in a hurry.
Stupid? Maybe. But understandable.
Well hopefully you lose a body part someday. Stupid prick
lol understandable if you're a fucking boomer moron who licks the bosses boots. in a hurry for what?? to make the owner some more money? to say look how fast i can work? to get your arm cut off for that is just pathetic
Yeah, and having all of your body parts is overrated... I mean who wouldn’t rather lose an arm or a leg rather than be bored or annoyed with waiting 10 minutes?
What a bonehead comment.
Momentum is a thing
I Cant even
Sup mike
Go wood
Putting body parts near sharp objects rotating at high speed is just stupid. Nice work boys.
THEY NEED EMERGENCY STOP MECHANISMS N I KNOW THEY SAY THEY HAVE THEM BUT THEY DONT. THE MACHINES COME TO A STOP SO IT DOESNT RUIN THE MACHINE IF IT COMPLETELY STOPPED THEY ARE WORRIED ABOUT THEIR MACHINES SO MACHINES ARE MADE TO SLOWLY STOP N THE "EMERGENCY" IS COMPLETELY POINTLESS.
How did that happen? The operators knew the blades continue to spin, every machine operator knows what the machines they run do. They could see spinning blades, why did they stick their limbs into blades they knew were spinning?