Why is "From the River to the Sea, Palestine will be Free" offensive?
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- Опубліковано 25 вер 2024
- A discussion of the slogan, what people think it means, and why many feel it is offensive.
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How about, alternatively, the idea of "from the river to the sea" simply means a truly free federal system where all people within Israel and the Palestinian areas are granted citizenship? A true power sharing arrangement as seen in Northern Ireland. That seems humane and fair to me.
thank you
Hello! Slight correction. The Country of Jordan is named after the River, not Vice-Versa.
Jordan in its current borders was initially called Transjordan (i.e., the other side of the Jordan - aka the East bank). When Transjordan took control of the West Bank (ergo, Cisjordan or "this side of the Jordan") the Country declared itself to be a unified Jordan.
Thanks
😊😅😢
The West Bank was created as a buffer zone.
does he look like student under 30 , only product of modern education doesn't know that
It was also originally part of the British mandate of Palestine until 1921, creating what was then called the Trans-Jordan Partition. Which adds to the current discourse.
you should be sincere. Netanyahu negates Palestine's right to exist. There is no Palestine on maps. That is also insulting.
Not sure you realize this, but Palestine is not a country. That's why it's not on maps.
@@HenryAbramsonPhD thats exactly the problem. There are people living there with their own identity. More and more states will recognize palestine.
No that's a fact. There is no such country as Palestine.
There will be no country named Israel in the end😂
Israel is a atomic power with the US as a close ally. Can you pls repeat your sentence. @@yenakim9064
Fully agree with you as an Arab Pro-Palestinian person I find it naive at best, and I fully understand why this is offensive to Jewish populations, the biggest problem we have is the image of 'Free Palestine" is almost Utopic and essentially not practical given the current state of all Arab nations (which collectively fail to protect minorities), That criticism though should not be used to suppress the opposition to the occupation, one thing I did learn in life, Victims are not always angels, sometimes they are full of anger and hate themselves, that does not stop me from supporting them until they are no longer oppressed! It is tough to talk to Palestinians about being politically correct (which they should be) while they are being slaughtered daily 😔😔I am having those difficult conversations with friends and family, and it is as hard as trying to convince Israelis to cease fire because of the human suffering, the polarization is scary
Thank you for this very thoughtful comment. I wish there were more voices like yours in the public square.
As an Israeli I also sympathize with the pain and suffering of any human.. Despite all the propaganda about Israel and IDF, I don’t think you’ll find a soldier in our midst that enjoys the suffering of civilians. In the case of Gaza, you have to understand, the potential for freedom and prosperity were amazing. The leaders received massive amounts of funding that could have been used to make Gaza into a haven, heaven for tourists and wealth for all its citizens. What they did instead is build tunnel systems and armed bases under schools, hospitals and mosques. I urge you to research and find that yes these people are oppressed but it’s by their own leaders who mostly are not even in Gaza but in other countries, living high with all the money they stole from the poor families in Gaza. Lookup the fatwa council and what they wrote about Hamas, that Muslims shouldn’t even pray for them. They are the oppressors. Many Muslims live in Israel in peace and would openly tell you they’d rather live under Jewish government than sharia government, or even worst Hamas gov.
which land is occupied?
@@thewkovacs316Lebanon, Yemen, Iraq, Afghanistan and parts of Iran. And China (in this case, and it's the only one, against Muslims),
IDF want to eliminate Hamas and its infrastructures in Gaza so that it can never do terror attacks again. The problem with pro-Palestine folks like you is that you only seem to criticize Israel but not Hamas who caused this war. They use their own people as human shields. Ceasefire only benefits Hamas. Once Hamas regroup, they will do terror attacks again. You are all just want to bully the Jewish state.
The first half of that slogan is Likud's position, except that they claim all of the land for Israel. Hamas and Likud are a classic example of group polarization. But the long history of Arab aggression against Israel, and the inability of both sides to reach a workable compromise are additional factors. You don't have to side with Hamas or be anti Semitic to oppose Kahanism and aggressive, lawless settlement .
And your point?
@urbansocrates wrote; *”The first half of that slogan… Hamas and Likud are a classic example of group polarization. But the long history of Arab aggression against Israel, and the inability of both sides to reach a workable compromise are additional factors.”*
* This theory that the “Arab aggression” “are additional factors” and not connected to the literal meaning of the slogan ”From the River to the Sea,” is not accurate.
* The day after the state of Israel’s existence, four of the neighboring Arab nations tried to destroy it by attacking Israel. The goal of the Muslim nations was to create an Islamic nation “from the river to the sea”.
This was not a gradual process of polarization on the Islamic side. That was the Muslim goal from day one. It remains the maximum goal of Muslims in the region.
Eliminating the “lawless settlement” does not remove the motives of those who believe in the literal meaning of the slogan *”From the River to the Sea,”*
Gaza was given autonomy by Israel (except for control of airspace and trade) which required the uprooting of all Israeli settlements there. So even with Likud in power in the 2000s, there was no Israeli state “from the river to the sea” except for the desire of extremists. It will not happen in terms of actual Israeli policy.
However, the goal of Hamas, which is in power in the Gaza Strip, is literally the elimination of Israel. Meaning one Muslim state “from the river to the sea”.
It is correct that Israel has become more polarized. That happened after the long Camp David negotiations which ended by 2000 and 2001 in failure.
Israel now reflects the common political stalemates in the Middle-east region such as with Syria, with the Kurds in Syria, Turkey, Iraq and Iran, with Armenia and Azerbaijan as well as with Yemen.
The history of Arab aggression against Jews is shorter and less consistent than Christian aggression.
@@HenryAbramsonPhD The point is there seems to be a double standard when it comes to ethnic cleansing. It's apparently fine and dandy as long as it's to advance Eretz Yisrael like extremist settlers are doing beyond 1967 borders under a security umbrella provided by successive Israeli governments.
@@solarpunkutopian Jews moving into Judea and Samaria is not ethnic cleansing. It doesn't remove anyone from Judea and Samaria. Expelling all those Jews from Judea and Samaria, as the Palestinian Authority demands, would be ethnic cleansing.
A separate question from whether expanding Jewish settlements in Judea and Samaria constitutes ethnic cleansing is whether it is wise to do so in light of the perennial tensions and of how it complicates prospects of eventually carving out sensible territory for a peaceful Palestinian state. That question is pretty complicated and I have no confident views on it.
The only time when the Israeli government unequivocally engaged in ethnic cleansing was in 2005, when IDF soldiers forcibly expelled every single Jew from the Gaza strip, including by digging up all the dead Jews from their graves, leaving the Gaza 100% judenrein. Given how that turned out, you can understand that not many Israelis are keen to repeat this particular experiment in the West Bank (where opinion polls indicate that Hamas would be elected into power if an election were held tomorrow).
Ok so I understood the slogan correctly when I first heard it, and I still support it. Israel is an illegitimate state, Palestinian jews are under no threat from a future democratic Palestine, settlers should leave.
“Palestinian Jews are under no threat.” October 7
@@HenryAbramsonPhD"from a future Democratic Palestine"
@@HenryAbramsonPhD You don't talk about "mowing the lawn", the continual carpet bombing of Gaza. You don't speak of October 6,5,4,3,2,1 or about 70 years of occupation and oppression of native Palestinians by EUROPEAN Jews with less than 10% levantine DNA. Stop with your fakery now!
It’s a de facto legitimate state because it’s recognized as such. How it came about may be questionable, but so are the origin stories of many states that we accept as legitimate.
Did we actually teach basic geography in any core course?
Sadly as many have seen throughout the ages, it takes wars for people to learn geography.
The very fact that Gen-X and Millennials are so ignorant of geography and history is shocking. When I was a kid, admittedly a long time ago, you wouldn't be accepted by a university without demonstrable knowledge of history and geography that was scrupulously tested by various exams, similar to British O- and A-levels.
Sad but true.
Gen X-ers are 50 years old, give or take a few years in either direction. These aren't Gen X-ers (or even Millennials) we're talking about here. We're talking 18-24 year olds.
I'm scratching my head trying to think of exactly what they are taught in school these days. How to make a perfect TikTok video? The ignorance is acutely shocking and some of them attend the "elite" institutions of higher learning.
@@noneofyourbusiness2539 Right! Perhaps we should be talking about Gen-Z here. Gen-X and Millennials are their parents and teachers. The ladies representing Harvard and U of Pennsylvania at the recent Congressional hearing would have been, at a glance, Gen-X. Incidentally, U of Pennsylvania has lost a $100 million grant over their president's comments at the hearing.
At least they know the UK promised to give the land to jews. Isn’t that true? Will you ignore this historical truth?
It seems the UK, instead of your god, is more related to the promise on the land. And then you guys invaded Palestinian land and violate their human-right. That’s what it’s going on.
Professor Abramson busting out with Arabic pronunciation. I had no idea! I’ve been watching his Jewish History Lab and other videos for a long time.
With a heavy Canadian accent, eh?
@@HenryAbramsonPhD from your both Arabic n Jewish descriptions of the river n the sea, a distant neutral observer like me quickly concludes this is a case of siblings suffering from uncontrolled/unmanaged sibling rivalry.
You mean "butchering" it is more like it. His H's are way off, he pronounces the H of "baHr" as a KH, he butchers the name of the language and culture (how surprising!), and makes a complete mess of the word "miyaah" ("waters") as if it's pronounced Maya. In sum, his competency in Arabic pronunciation is commensurate with his actual knowledge (but not his ego).
@@pcolt4 Unfortunately Duolingo doesn't offer an app for ego
@@HenryAbramsonPhD Then they're in luck, since you're clearly available to develop the ego app for them as a certifiable expert in egotism.
You actually missed the opportunity to assert that the butchered pronunciation was an intentional thematic echo of the butchery of tens of thousands of Palestinians in Gaza, as the unbroken continuation of the dispossession and butchery and gaslighting of millions of Palestinians dating back to the very formation of the Haganah, Irgun and Stern Gang -- the Founding Fathers of Middle East Terrorism, aka the Zionists.
I’m glad to be mother of young kids who teaches them history, geography, and values. They are aware of their Jewish ancestry, and it’s my responsibility to raise them to search for truth instead of following some ignorant crews.
Well, I hope you teach your kids what the Principle of Charity of Charitable Interpretation is.
It means to listen to what people say with the premise that they are well meaning.
If I chant "From the River to The Sea and millions of people have been doing, what we mean is a land in which people will experience Freedom instead of the forced occupation of the land called Israel.
99.99% of those who chant that phrase don't mean bad things to Jews. We are not Antisemitic or Racists and I'm not Muslim, I'm a Costa Rican in Canada.
Don't let them learn to get offended by slogans like this man pretends.
It's always a choice to get offended but in this case many (not all) Jews are very attached to being offended and victimized by words.
You want to learn history of the Middle East?
Look for Norman Finkelstein, he's a humble noble jew that doesn't play the victim card.
@marioques. It’s wrong not to teach “know the difference “ . so your statement will only create confusion.
Likud has in its charter from the river to the sea and Israelis repeat this. Why isn’t this brought up the same way?
Because they are not chanting it in the streets of New York and London.
read the original plo charter
read the 49 armistice agreement
likud charter is based on reality
the fakestinian chant is based on delusion and the want to genocide the jewish people
@@HenryAbramsonPhDhaha what a weak argument. They are not chanting the slogan they realize it with settlements over the last 50 years.
Israelis repeat this where? I'm Israeli and haven't heard this being "repeated"
Netanjayu in front of the UN for example and in his statements all the time.@@getout2012
I used to be young doing protests and half the idiots just there for the social aspect
Likely
Any recommendations on how to express solidarity with the Palestinian people without being ignorant of basic geography or antisemitic? In this current conflict I posit that the majority of westerners supporting Palestine are merely appalled by the amount of civilian death that Israel is causing, and not trying to support violence by anyone.
Good question. I would suggest simply stating it clearly: wishing for the peace and prosperity of the Palestinians, living in peace with Israel. Two-state, one-state, whatever.
My Arab friends in the Middle East (an admittedly small sample) tend to mean this same thing - being appalled at the loss of life (though also, probably unconsciously, influenced by anti-Israeli news networks). Mostly, they want a future of potential prosperity and safety for those in Gaza, which is something we can all agree on.
My father believes that the attacks on Israeli citizens by Hamas, and the killing of their civilians is a legitimate act because all Israeli citizens must go through military service and are legitimate. No amount of argument can change that, because his social circle all believe that, and he has lived all his 80 something years believing that.
Man did we have loud heated arguments.
Honestly I stopped supporting either side. Opting instead to convince whoever I am talking to that the otherside deserves their sympathy too.
2 points to ponder, a: the amount if civilian death has not been verified by any independent source besides Hamas for whom the higher the number, the better it is for their pr. B: the deaths are not caused by Isreal, it is caused by the war Hamas started and by their practices of mixing with civilians. Bonus! Please look into the civilian deaths in any other war to compare numbers and see how the amount of civilians are not any higher. America itself has flattened cities with way more civilians in previous wars and no one criticized them. It's only when Isreal defends itself that people care about civilians. It is startlingly clear if you take an unbiased view on world history, though im not sure you're willing to do that
the first protests happened before israel responded
you have no idea how many civilians have been killed, because all of the numbers come from hamas
calling for a cease fire while hamas still exists clearly means you and your pals support a terrorist regime
It's equivalent of me saying "From west coast to east coast America will be Islam free. Free America"... Students should be held accountable for their hate speech.
Agreed
A better analogy would be if they had shouted "From west coast to east coast blacks will be free". Would you still have complained?
Who are those people in every scope of language prefer the word "genocide" or "genocidal" - what s obnoxious mind set! World's populace love peace makers but not war mongers. O Allah! Please free peoples from apartheid and oppressions & makes your world live worthy!
Peace.
This is basic information that more people should be made aware of. I mean it’s simple geography.
Absolutely
I'm an Australian with Jewish ancestry interested in learning. Thank you for your videos Dr Abramson. I see the study re the age difference in perspectives playing out here somewhat too.
I had an understanding of why the chant is offensive, but didn't know there were actually other overt versions. Great to have this information for conversations - thank you 😊
Thank you for this thoughtful comment!
You are correct in that the younger generation lack knowledge in basic geography. I am ashamed and sad to say that my daughter graduated high school and was unable to tell me the name of the country that borders the U.S. on the south. Time for the schools to get back to the basics and leave the social agenda to parents. By the way I enjoy your videos very informative and with a very pleasant delivery- thank you!
Thanks! Buy her an Atlas? If they still print them.
Just annoying so many did not know what it means in terms of its geographical context. In regards to the possible interpretations, it appreciated your descriptions of the possible interpretations.
Thank you. I am encouraged by the fact that polling indicates people stop using the phrase when they understand its basic meaning.
this slogan is the official doctrine of the israeli government. This is ok why?
Antisemitism is pretty rampant right now among young people.
I'm a Jew and I've head so much of it in the community and it work it's quite disturbing.
Yes
No, what's rampant right now is intentionally conflating anti-Zionism with antisemitism. Don't get it twisted.
@HenryAbramsonPhD we have each other. you are not alone. it is as shocking as it is disturbing, but you are not alone.
Your videos (not just in this series) are extremely informative and eye-opening. I hope that your videos help to dissolve the ignorance that is used by nefarious forces to justify the atrocities.
I’m not Jewish but I have watched your other videos on Jewish history and have grown in my understanding of the world from them. Thank your for all of your efforts.. I pray for your loved ones in Israel.
Amen. And than you for your kind words.
Thank you very enlighting and informative.
God bless Israel❤
You need to explain this to the Metropolitan Police in London, England who think it is ok & fine & allow huge marches with people shouting this with Palestian flags. 🏴🇬🇧
The police should stop people from marching and shouting?
Shows a real failure of our educational system.
Sad but true
I am glad you made this video 💝🙏 So sorry about people who use this slogan to create chaos and trouble.
I believe it’s as offensive as calling West Bank Judaea & Samaria.
Funny enough is a survey conducted in Israel, Palestinians said that this slogan means one state for everyone with equal rights, and Israelis said one Israeli state from river to sea means Palestinians to be displaced.
Isn’t that ironic ?
I’d like to see that survey. But I don’t think it’s comparable to using the Biblical terms for two parts of the West Bank.
I'd be surprised if the Palestinians would agree to be citizens with equal rights in the state that's already there: Israel.
The Arabs of East Jerusalem were offered citizenship, and I believe most refused it.
@@HenryAbramsonPhD
I apologize that I couldn’t find the link for that poll, I read it few years ago and it was conducted in west bank by a Palestinian group. The question we always face by Palestinians is where we can have a state with the current map full with settlements & if it is gonna be one state are we gonna get full rights & where should the refugees from 48 line go. No one has answers for such questions which makes the slogan flare when things turn ugly like nowadays when both sides are furious. I don’t personally believe that there is a chance for two states solution left as there is no land left for a Palestinian state anyways so the future is becoming vague. Regarding Judea & Samaria even with its biblical source, it just represents the right wing of Israel ideologically from the Palestinian view which is a call for annexation of land and either kick Palestinians out or let them live in apartheid system.
You can see that the prospective of both groups are different and fuelled with fear from the other.
Even Palestinian flag is considered by Israelis as unrecognized state of Israel and considered by Palestinians as symbol of their struggle for freedom.
So we have to step a little bit to the back and recognize the two sides of the story in order to move forward.
this man is really ridiculous. Israel pursues and realizes the idea of a great Israel for decades thats not a problem but people chanting it.
@@HenryAbramsonPhD
So I found the poll I mentioned discussed in an article
Though UA-cam doesn’t allow to share links and your email in not in you bio
Thank you for the explanation. This is what I need to hear.
You are most welcome.
I totally agree with the slogan, but not before adding a few things:
From the River to the Sea:
1) Palestine will be free from Hamas.
2) There will be peace.
3) Arabs and Israelis will live together peacefully in their respective states. Arabs in Palestine and Israel, Israelis in Israel and Palestine.
A nicer version
Its offensive only for colonizers and pro apartheid....
And that slogan does not mean destroying Jews, but destroying a state.
You have no problem with Israel being a Jewish state.
@@moshdee456
Enough of lies...
I was hoping you would get into the history of the phrase. For instance, is it true that the Likud Party formerly used the phrase?
If so, what did they mean by it? Did others use it, too?
A version of this phrase has been used by groups on the Israeli right.
@@HenryAbramsonPhD
Then I would have liked to hear some of that history as well. For instance were they using it before the Palestinians, who then took that phrase and threw it back at them, or vice versa. That has some significance to the present usage and meaning then.
It was coined by revisionist Zionists during the Mandate of Palestine era 1917-1948. They demanded that the area between the river and the sea be exclusively Jewish and not divided between the Jews and Arabs.
The quote from the charter is:
The right of the Jewish people to the land of Israel is eternal and indisputable and is linked with the right to security and peace; therefore, Judea and Samaria will not be handed to any foreign administration; between the Sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty.
Also, revionist zionism has followers who believe Israel should extend into what is current day Jordan, as that made up parts of the original Judean kingdom.
I realize that all bigotry is based in ignorance but still not being able to locate which river and which sea is troubling.
Yup
What's troubling is the fact you failed Geography !
One thing that's disturbing right at the outset is how these young people in particular are out there angrily chanting slogans when they don't even know the most basic things about the underlying conflict. If you think that they are talking about the Nile River and the Atlantic ocean, then maybe you should take a break and spend some time studying basic geography before you run around angrily shouting opinions
Agreed
It's interesting how many Conservatives use the word Freedom as emblematic and essential, while Free Palestine makes them freak out.
Choosing to get offended by a phrase which 99% of those who chant it mean good, is a manipulative attitude to try to prevent its use.
Getting that phrase out of the free speech is a way to deter criticism of Israeli Zionist policies as Antisemitic or genocidal.
If you were fair you would use the charitable interpretation of that phrase but because you're a Jew that uses the "Antisemitic Card", you try to use it to prevent the expression of support for the people in Palestine.
When you say the phrase implies the expulsion or killing of Jews you're precisely projecting what Israel is already doing with Palestinians., even if your cognitive biases prevent you from seeing that.
Yeah, no. And sorry not sorry for playing “the antisemitism card”-we are well accustomed to expulsions.
@@HenryAbramsonPhD You were expelled from 109 countries for DAMN GOOD reason and you know it. I'm Ashkenazi and Sephardic and had my DNA tested. I'm 3% levantine blood and most Israelis living in Israel are similar to me, with most having LESS THAN 20% ancient levantine DNA. Stop with the lies. You are EUROPEAN just like ME!
Dr. Abramson, I appreciate you commenting on the individual comments in a measured way. It's how a discussion should be had IMHO, by trying to understand what the other side is saying, in words and in feelings and yes, even in prejudices and misconceptions. From what I can see, neither Israelis nor Palestinians seem to understand, or rather, almost never express that they understand, how deeply felt their principal traumas are. Rarely do you hear a Palestinian trace back Zionism to antisemitism in Europe (especially to the east) and the pogroms in the Russian empire (as you do in some of your videos), or Israelis acknowledge that Palestinians got displaced by violence around 1948 and their related frustrations (although Israeli historians do). At some point, I hope, both groups will be able to hear each other and then, finally, come to some peaceful agreement. Let us pray.....
Agreed
At the same time people who talk about 1948 fail to mention the mass expulsions of Jews from the Muslim lands that happened at the same time and scattered pogroms against them that accompanied it.
Bassem Youssef in his talk with Piers Morgan did precisely that. He spoke of the migration of the Jewish people throughout the centuries. Listen to it .(it is on you tube) He is a cardiologist AND stand up comedienne, friend of John Stewart who brilliantly goes through many issues involved in this conflict.
Didn't the original Likud party platform from 1977 state ""between the Sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty." ? How is that any different? Any less threatening?
I imagine it would not be well received by Palestinians
So what's the difference when jews call for a "JEWISH STATE?" With a nation state law that measures how JEWISH you are? Tired of false academic sophistry.
It’s not “from the river to the sea, no one but those like me.” Israel is 20% non-Jewish. Tired of stupid comments.
I think alot of it is from the generation of people aged 18-24 being emotionally immature and not realizing the complexities of geopolitics and conflicts. People in this demofraphic are still children and they have a lot of growing up to do
Easy to put down a younger generation. I don't think that their opinions come from immaturity. I think they use other media different than the mainstream media and they are influenced by some common sense of humanity
@@louisegordon5169 I'm 22
I hope you show the same offense with the Lakud party that originally made up the "river to sea.." banner that was then taken by Palestinians.
Here’s a key difference: Likud is one of many political parties in the democratic state of Israel.
So, a couple of days back they were protesting for Palestinians in front of a theater where Seinfeld was having a show and my daughter had tickets. I kid you not. That to me, is approaching thuggery. You protest where a Jew is working for what? You intimidate his customers? My daughter gave them a special finger salute as she and her husband and others went in. This was in Syracuse. My money is on SU students behind it. SU used to have a fairly large Jewish enrollment.
You are dealing with people who, like children, need a rhyme. As in 'If the glove doesn't fit, you must acquit." type of mentality. The incredible ignorance of these little chanting people is how mobs behave and how people get lynched.
There is an ongoing indoctrination in the system, it if far left, it is rampant and out of control; it is subversive to the republic. Meanwhile the FBI takes plate numbers at school board meetings, and on and on. We must end this corruption.
The assumption that all Jews are implicated in events in Gaza is indeed troubling.
Group identity politics is all the rage these days, to my mind it is recast neo-Marxism in newer victim perpetrator groups, largely substituting economic alleged classes for much more malleable identity groups. Materialism. One is not an individual, one is always and primarily a member of a group. It is the antithesis of what Martin Luther King proposed. I pray for the Republic and the world and its leaders. These are dark times and all people of good will should seek God, seek to be holy and stop killing one another. Repent, fast, pray. Sin abounds, reparation to the Lord is needed. Blesssings to you and yours! May God keep you safe! @@HenryAbramsonPhD
Sounds like your Daughter needs therapy ! Was she following God's law of Love Nope !
@@amybear2941 Perhaps you can provide the name of your therapist? Although, he does not seem too effective for your issues. Christians are not required to submit to abuse, verbal or otherwise, and since she rendered a form of self-defense via a digit, it was quite very appropriate to the evil of the aggressors. This is because Christians are not pacifists, nor doormats, and one day should you become a Christian then you will understand. Study the crusades and take a lesson from that.
Thank you Dr. Abramson. It is truly a difficult time for Jews.
I hope you found the video useful!
The youngest GenX is now 44 years old, so I think you mean Millenials and GenZ. 😊
I always associate it with this, and so it creeps me out and I would never say it:
"In 1967, the mood in the Middle East was ugly," Shuster reports. "Israel, independent since 1948, was surrounded by Arab states dedicated to its eradication. Egypt was ruled by Gamal Abdel Nasser, a firebrand nationalist whose army was the strongest in the Arab Middle East. Syria was governed by the radical Baathist Party, constantly issuing threats to *push Israel into the sea* ." -Mike Shuster, NPR correspondent
As you point out, Israel allows Muslim Arabs to be citizens of its country. And when polled, those Israeli Arabs prefer living in Israel to moving to any of Israel's neighbors. Conversely though, it should be pointed out that Jews are NOT ALLOWED to live in Gaza. End of story. So under the premise that "From the River to the sea, Palestine will be free". From the Palestinian point of view freedom clearly means freedom from Jews and Israelis. The expression is clearly an existential threat to Jews and Israelis. It's more than offensive, It's a deep existential threat.
I hear you.
@@HenryAbramsonPhDyou mentioned that in this video, didn't you? Maybe I just interpreted it that way...
The most astonishing is that they don't understand that their "palestine" IS free from the river to the see.
Everyone can see it, because God has put Israel between the river and the see, which probably no one has missed, and by that their chanting is fulfilled, the "palestines" are by their own mouth really freed from that place.
People do not understand that their "prayers" can be fulfilled without that they recognizes it. So, their own chanting actually helps the fulfillment of God's Word by the establishment of Israel on that place.
You shall be careful what you allows go out of your mouth, because "man shall be judged by every word" says the Lord.
No, Israel is an ethno-state, and an apartheid. It begins with the national anthem "A jewish soul..", no right of return for non-jewish, the basic law "Israel as the nation state of the jewish people" is another indication, Arabic was namely downgraded to a language with special status, this law also states that "(Jewish) settlements is a national value and will be promoted". Netanyahu filmed a video arging jewish electors to vote by saying "Arabs are amassing in buses for the vote". Many international organizations such as Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch, and local organizations like BTselem desrcibe Israel as an apartheid.
Yet 20% of Israel’s citizens are not Jewish, participating fully in society from voting to serving in Knesset and on the Supreme Court. Compare to the surrounding Arab countries.
@@HenryAbramsonPhD The fact that 20% of Israel's citizens are not jewish, but the state anthem tell of " a jewish soul" should tell us something. This is only the tip of the iceberg. You said that Israel is not an ethno-state, I provided several indication that it is, this is coded by law. The Apartheid claim is something else, but it is also an apartheid. In several Arab countries, the jews were part of the community and served in Parlament too. Israel exerted effort to transfer jews from Arab countries, like Yemen, to Israel. In the case of Egypt, something like the Lavon affair, should be mentioned.
lets say that mexico comes and takes over half of the US and for 70 years it occupies that land, and then people say from atlantic to pacific united states will be free is that problematic. In that case would US is just demanding their land back "problematic".
An analogy
❗I'm always offended by people who want to kill me. I'm funny that way.
Well put.
@@HenryAbramsonPhD ✡️ Rak chazak amats eretz Israel. Thank you rebbe.
Thank you for investing the time to create your videos. I believe it's crucial to comprehend the context before forming a decision or expressing agreement or disagreement with the presented content. I am baffled at the younger generation ignorance. I wonder what my generation did or did not do to have created it.
I hope you find them helpful.
Realize that many young people don't want to be confused by facts. They like clever slogans and wish to be in the "in" crowd. They don't even have the patience to watch a normal length video.
Technology has no doubt played a great role. When I went to college, you had to look at real books and journals from the library to research a topic. The paper had to be typed using a typewriter. No Internet, no cell phones, no social media.
When today's college students are running the world, what will happen? Will it lead to another dark ages? Will democracies willingly allow the world to be taken over by Hamas-type groups?
You’re a breath of neutral fresh air. Thank you for these videos.
I appreciate that!
The singers of river to the sea should read the Bible book of Exodus. Pharaoh had similar thoughts - from Nile to Mediterranean sea. It was his people who eventually ended in Red sea; remember whatever you wish upon Israel will come to you. Esther 6 shows a man called Hamann ended that way
Hope you enjoyed the video
Thank you for posting this. I certainly learned even more (as always from your videos)
Thank you for the kind words
Well American has never been good at teaching geography. I have to admit, when I first heard the slogan that it was just a rhyme. And did not point to any actual river or sea. But it is hopeful when they learn what the slogan is saying, hard change their mind.
Agreed
If someone said "From sea to shining sea, black slaves will be free.", what did he mean?
Absolutely insane of you to compare a slogan that can mean all sorts of things to all sorts of people to the N-word, which rly only means one thing and isn’t trying to convey a political message. Also noticed you said nothing on the illegal settlements in the west bank and the displacement and violence perpetrated against them. Everything you say Palestine will do to Israel is what Israel is doing right now. Everything from Benjamin Netanyahu quoting Amalek to the systematic destruction of Palestinian homes not only in Gaza, but in the west bank as well, scream genocide. So personally I’m sorry you’re offended, but I put more stake in human lives than hurting feelings.
Slow your roll. Calling for genocide is more than hurting feelings. Speaking, btw, as part of the people who coined the word genocide to describe the Holocaust.
@@HenryAbramsonPhD But you know if some random college student says it NINETY NINE percent of the time that’s not what they mean. I can understand why it would bother you, but that’s really not the priority when Palestinians are being massacred by the hundreds and antisemitism has been used to silence critique of Israel for years.
@@HenryAbramsonPhD if you ended this video calling for a ceasefire I would take no issue. But talking about how something is offensive because it promotes genocide while the genocide in Gaza continues without so much as addressing it is deplorable. It’s really bad there man. Half of Gaza’s population is children that had nothing to do with any of this.
Free Palestine from the river to the sea means one "democratic" and "multi-religious" state as it was before 1948. It is absolutely not anti-jews.
Sure. That’s the way Hamas means it, right?
@@HenryAbramsonPhD Thanks for your feedback. Not sure, Hamas is not anti-jew. at least a part of it. It is anti-zionist. do you agree that one can be anti-zionist without being anti-semitic ?
@albert3344 You honestly believe Hamas is not anti-Jew? They're not exactly hiding it. If you want to know what Hamas actually thinks of Jews -- Jews, not Israel -- don't take my word for it. Take theirs. I suggest starting with their founding charter.
The majority of the younger generation grew up with much more available information from all sides than previous generations who did not grow up in the digital age.
Information, yes. But much of it fragmentary, distorted, and false. The challenge is to filter out the signal from the noise.
@@HenryAbramsonPhD it's much better than one stream of information that is heavily censored. having multiple channels helps people (like me) find something new out and research if it's true.
Thank you for the clarity!
You are so welcome!
Again clear AND interesting...real knowledge surmounts all, even nonsense...yes, .Palestine really must be freed from Hamas...
Dr Abramson, I've never heard of and never heard used, the version of the Freedom slogan for Palestinians that you pick. And it's strange that you're telling an occupied and discriminated people what their Freedom slogans mean. Shouldn't you listen to what they say to understand what they mean?
Palestinians live in occupied Gaza, occupied West Bank and as second class citizens within Israel. They do not have the same rights as Jewish people anywhere in the land. Freedom for Palestinians between the river and the sea means having equal rights in all of historic Palestine. Who are you to tell these oppressed people how to interpret their freedom slogans?
Dr Abramson you state that one version of the Freedom slogan that no one uses, means the land will be Muslim and that is offensive to Jews. But Israel's constitution explictly states that the country is "Jewish" and no other group has a right to self determination in Israel. In other words, Israel is doing to the native 2million Christians and Muslims who live in Israel exactly what you says is so offensive about one of the versions of the Freedom slogans that you pick out.
Israels constitution even states that Jewish settlement has "national value", so illegally colonising Gaza and the West Bank and ethnically cleansing Palestinians from their land is right and good under Israeli law. It implies Palestinians should have no self determination anywhere in Gaza or the West Bank, which is their land under international law.
Dr Abramson's you sound like like hypocrit when you say that the version of the Freedom slogan you pick would affect the Jewish language of Hebrew. Israel's nation state law has downgraded the Arabic language of the native people already. Israel is actually trying to wipe out Palestinian language and culture.
Dr Abramson every thing you accuse Palestinians of in the version of the slogan that you choose (and isn't used by pro-Palestinians), is actually being done by Israel to Palestinians. You are gaslighting us.
I am a bit disappointed in the biased language of this video, I apologize for saying. It's good to rep your own opinion, of course, but not if in a way that frames it as "reality" or "understanding", without mentioning or ruling out other possible interpretations. For example , and with respect, I noticed that a popular viewpoint on this planet about Oct 7th is just not acknowledged by you. This view is that while it happened through Hamas, it or something like it would've happened through whatever organization existed in Gaza eventually - even if they weren't Islamist, antisemitic or intentionally targeting non IDF personnel- and futher, that armed attacks of some kind are a legal right of the annexed Palestinians. In other words, hamas are the only game in town in order for desperate young men growing up stateless, to enact military resistance to Israel, and from the view of many, Israel has not been willing to leave post 1967 land and settle the conflict according to UN resolutions. Further, this view sees Israel and the IDF as also a "t-rrorist" group in certain respects, given its past operations such as in 2018, and its blockade of food, "starvation plus" diet, holding onto territory acquired in war, periodic civilans massacres, etc. Living in a Buddhist majority country where antisemitism is a foreign concept, and nobody even questions the right of Israel to exist, this is a pretty common view here - but i see it all over world media as well. The idea that we all know and agree on what Oct 7th is really about seems a bit too much, after all there were also attacks by the Palestinians when many of their forces were secular leftists , and there have also been civilian violent uprisings, and unarmed protests as well.
Best regards from Asia. Let's hope there is a future for both peoples.
Excellent commentary on this phrase. I really think these protesters would do well be staying off the streets and taking a course in geography.
Mid 30's, believe Israel has the right to exist and defend itself, but I think you're misrepresenting the argument. Most are advocating for equal treatment under the law from river to the sea. That would include international law that should step in and stop Israel's illegal expansion into the West Bank and support and rebuild Gaza. Gazans deserve its airport and control of their side of the borders back. As well as international recognition.
Apart from that, thank you for explaining your point-of-view
Hope you found it useful.
Why no video about why bombing hospitals is offensive ?
Tropes , tweets and libles are not worse than bombing hospitals .
Israel has no right to ex ist
Thank you for illustrating that there are actually people who think like you. Hateful and stupid in equal measure.
I'm not Jewish, but very much appreciate the wisdom in your talks.
Thank you very much!
Im a Jewsish woman I tried to explain these things on threads respectfully and got attacked, called stupid, entitled, brainwashed and then someone went after my therapy business by posting a review and calling me genocidal. I had to shut down my account. I am grateful for people such as yourself with more influence posting the truth and teaching history.
So sorry to hear your challenges. You are not alone.
From the river to the sea, from water to water, Palestine is Arabic, Palestine will be free 🇵🇸🇵🇸🇵🇸🇵🇸
October 7
THE QUESTION IS WHO ARE THE REAL CRIMINALS?
Kidnappers would be my answer
Just reinforces the terrible job American public education has done in teaching basic knowledge of geography and history….which has the additional effect of suggesting that these subjects are unimportant
Sadly true
Its completely intentional. Uneducated people are easier to control, as we see so clearly. You say the byline and everyone parrots it, not knowing what it even means
The N word is a racial epithet .... There are racial epithets for Jewish folks ... to compare a bad protest slogan to a racial epithet is a bad analogy. Maybe just focus your message on the fact that people should hear what jewish folks are saying based on their experience and perceived connotations (of violence). that's fair.
Fair enough
I can proudly say I did not support the from the river to the sea. I have seen Christians saying this didn’t know what was even going on. Which to me was even worse because they were going Hamas so much power and blindly following along
Thank you.
Thank you, Dr. Abramson.
You are most welcome
As always, many thanks for sharing your thoughts and learning. I myself believe that true freedom emerges from nonviolent effort - otherwise, we can be bound in a cycle of violence. There is a myth of redemptive violence that resonates among people seeking a supposed swift and decisive conclusion, but I have yet to see violence truly attain such things.
Thank you for this comment.
Great video as always.
I appreciate that
I am, sometimes, asked to sign a petition from either side of the political arena. I always ask one question: "What are you asking me to sign?" It is rare that they really know. One young girl gave me a answer: "I don't now, but those that sent me know."
Free and equal citizens? That's ok isn't it? No matter whether one or two states I don't care. Justice is the only path to lasting peace.
Thank you Dr Abramson for a very good and informative video. What happened on 7th October was genocide really upset us we are Jews.
Glad you found it useful.
While I understand the Jewsih sentiment about the slogan, I am also aware of the desire for freedom for the Palestinians. They have been dispossessed from their lands, killed every day, and always under the threat of death. Since the creation of Israel / or recreation, the Palestinian population has been dispossessed from their lands. The creation of Israel should have made it possible for everyone to live peacefully in that area instead of uprooting one group of people.
I don’t agree with your characterization but I believe your perspective leaves room for discussion.
Everyone says that, but there's literally no proof that this is true. Can you give me examples of these things happening? And I mean without it vein a reaction to what the arab/Palestinian first started (such as arresting a "child" who in actuality is a 16 year old who stabbed 4 isrealis) because most stories people give as examples end up being exactly that
Happy Hanukkah Henry 🕎
Thanks you too
Intifada
Meaning
1.Terrorists kill people who don't disagree?
2.many people become terrorists handle
firearm without license
3. Children carry weapons
4. Sharia law over the world with travel
terrorists over the world free without
security use
Intifada and sharia law? 😭
Quick question: were the students from Harvard or UPenn?
Funny
Im getting a glimmer of hope, Dr proffessor Henry Abramson w your enlightening young students.thanks we need your help
Thank you!
From the North to the South, the East and the West Humans shall be free!!!
Dr. Abramson, this might be outside of the scope of your channel, but I was wondering if you might do a video about the criticisms Zionist Jews have leveled against secular Jews or anti-Zionist Jews who engage in activism against Israel's military actions. Recently I had a fellow member of the synagogue denying the Jewishness of Jewish Voice For Peace, questioning how they could be a Jewish organization if they are publically demonstrating for the Palestinians and against Israeli military action.
Perhaps in a future video
Thank you.
Shabbat Shalom, your video was on point, clear and (I hope) easy to understand.
The map which had been used by Prime Minster Netanyahu, in his recent U.N speech, was showing an Israel from "River to the See", too. How about that? Was that offensive? Or would it be offensive merely if Arabs use this phrase? Let's not have a double standard. Let's there be peace between Israel and Palestine. Amen.
To be fair most Americans need a geography lesson for lands outside of the US.
Agreed
I appreciate your videos for providing information and education. I don’t think your videos are purely neutral and I don’t think they can be and that’s frankly ok. I do however think offhandedly comparing this phrase to the N word at the end cheapens your intended message.
I hear you
My Facebook page needed a reasonable take on this topic. Thank you.
Glad it was helpful
A holocaust taking place against Gaza people and we should be troubled about upsetting the killers? This is foolishness.
Your use of the term is in itself offensive.
We are living in a world where Zionists will tell us what to think and what to say.
I'm sorry, but there is no denying that what is happening right now in Gaza is nothing more than a GENOCIDE. I respect your point of view and any philosophy, history or geographical facts you defend, but you cannot deny the massacres of thousands and thousands of innocent people in the West Bank (people who have no involvement in Hamas' terrorist activities) with the excuse that there were some terrorist acts by a few very violent and destructive people against the Jewish people. The situation in this area is now so horrible with all the bombing and destruction, with all the dead, that inevitably one might wonder if there is an ethnic cleansing in the Gaza territory instead of the excuse of trying to free the hostages and destroy the Hamas headquarters. This goes beyond all the broken political treaties, beyond all the IDF excuses, this situation is a humanitarian crisis. As long as we humans, continue killing each other for any religious, political or historical believe, there is no solution whatsoever.
Shalom and Thank You! Is there any historical record of the name Palestine being derived in accordance with Pallas Athena?
Not to my knowledge.
Thank You, dear Henry Abramson! And Happy Hanukkah! @@HenryAbramsonPhD
See the Likud party platform for more on Eretz Israel (from the river to the sea) 👀
The Likud platform from its inception says that "the land from the river to the sea should be under Jewish sovereignty".
So Ribi your indignation is just a crocodile tear.
Oh please. Likud is one party among many in a democracy. And they are not chanting it in the streets of London and New York. And not a Rabbi, just a regular guy.
Please go visit universities ❤️ I’m glad once people were informed , their views changed 🙏
Me too.
The motto is, at best, incredibly naive - at worst, genocidal. I wholly agree with your perspective.
I would only add that it's plain evidence of nationalist ideology. No surprise, there. However, i am often struck by the similarities between the Israel-Palestine and the Notthern Ireland conflicts.
This absolutist territorial claim is exactly how Irish Republicans spoke - and the unionists too. It's a rhetorical device, but backed by a anger-hardened ideology that pretends to be influence minflexible and immobile.
You can find voices like that on the Israeli side as well, on the right. But, but it is not nearly as widespread.
Glad you found this useful
Message is quite clear, People living in Palestine will be free based on one man, one vote. South Africa is free now, because Black people have the same right as European white settlers. Not a single white European settler were forced to leave or expelled from South Africa to achieve this freedom. Jews are needed in Palestine to show to the world Moslem, Christian and Jew can live side by side . Moslem Ruled Spain was very advanced because Jews who were expelled from other European countries came to Spain and settled there and result was Golden age of Moslem and Jews in Spain while rest of Europe lived in Dark Ages.
This can happen again in Palestine or Israel, name is not important. Until 1948 this region was called Palestine.
Hope you found the video useful.
Thanks for your reply. I would like to inform you that many people in middle east think that two blue lines in Israeli flag represents two rivers, and in between is Israel. The rivers are the Nile and the Euphrates. So, people can think whatever they like, whether it is from river to the sea, or from one river to another river.@@HenryAbramsonPhD
As a person and former educator, I am really concerned with how common it is for young people to take up political causes and slogans without doing significant research on the topic beforehand.
This is not to put the blame solely on teachers or students but as a whole culture, I wish america would put more emphasis on research
From the river to the sea, israel must control its boundaries to secure its liberty...
From the 'River to the Sea expresses the desire of Palestinians to ”live in their homeland as free and equal citizens, neither dominated by others nor dominating them". Nothing less and nothing more. If people claim a genocidal intent to that slogan, I would be as bold to suggest that is a reflection of their own inherent Islamophobia or anti-Arab racism. It is a call for true equality for all those living in Israel/Palestine.
Ok boomer.
I hope you realize Gaza had this exact opportunity in 2005 when Israel forcefully removed Israeli citizens from their homes in Gaza.
That is factually incorrect. Israel withdrew from Gaza, withdrew it's citizens, but didn't give Gaza any opportunity to develop - Gaza cannot be separated from the WB or East Jerusalem. You are ignoring the occupation or regime of Apartheid.
Of all the things I have been called, I've never been called a Boomer! 😁. I'll take that as having an old head on younger shoulders! 🙂
Your ad hominem attack exposes your true reasoning.. @@HenryAbramsonPhD
That was brilliant, the best discussion/analysis that I have heard about the river to the sea slogan.
Thank you
Thank you