@@sara-go9mt plus many millions more for the SCSI controllers and RAID cages needed to put that much online. And the floor space and cooling alone might make it cost prohibitive.
1:47 The extra 2 pins on the drive is for an activity LED. Pretty common for servers so you can see if the drive is functioning while it's inside the rack
Generally, a great video, but with one serious flaw IMHO. I have purchased about 20 Amazon renewed HDDs for my Home Media Server, and only a couple were defective. However, I recently received 2 HDDs that both passed the Quick Format but both failed the Extended Format - which checks the entire HDD. You just cannot assume that a successful Quick Format ensures you have a good drive. Although it takes hours and hours to run the Full Format on a HDD, it will check the entire HDD and let you know if there are problems. Better to find those defects when scanning the Full Format for hours and hours then putting the HDD in your computer after a successful Quick Format and only have it err out in a few weeks, months, etc... when the Amazon return period is over. BTW, the seller of the Amazon renewed HDDs I ordered never responded to my emails about their defective HDDs. Good luck on any seller warranty from them beyond the Amazon return period. These Amazon renewed HDDs can be a great value, BUT you have to really run them through the long, extended testing and Full Format option before putting them in use.
@@GrantButler It might be a good idea to get an extended warranty, but the renewed HDDs I got from Amazon have a 5-year seller's warranty. I use these renewed HDDs in my Home Media Server where loss of data is not critical. If they wipe all stats from the HDD, you really don't know how many hours there are on that drive. If you can use them in a pool of drives with some kind of redundancy for HDD failure, then all the better. I still think it's a great deal provided the HDD passes the extended tests.
[...never responded to my emails about their defective HDDs. Good luck on any seller warranty from them beyond the Amazon return period. ] So... don't put too much into seller's 5 yr. FULLY format checking/repair each section.. $15 bucks to Amazon (who've been great with me) for maybe. And use in a redundant array ... Awesome guys, thanks
Same here: I bough a renewed 3 TB Seagate Compute HDD days ago, that I'm currently testing. Sounds healthy so far, but its Powered on hours was reading "1" when I started using it. Kind of a lottery I guess: you can hope to pull the barely used, returned product rather than a well-used one.
I've never seen one from Amazon Renewed with the power on hours reset to zero. Seems a little like resetting an odometer on a used car and should be illegal. More typical for renewed enterprise drives from data farms to have 25,000 to 35,000 hours on them.
I have read somewhere that part of the renew process is the resetting of the stats. So it is unlikely that the drive has not hours on it. The likelihood is that it has many hours on it. The thing is you will never be able to tell, you can just see how long it lasts. I think it's ok as long as you have your data somewhere else, but i would not rely on it as the only place you have your data, you need multiple copies just in case it fails.
From what I've heard, Purple drives are designed more for continuous use, but focus less on data consistency. You shouldn't get any bad reads, but with video surveillance it's not really a big deal if a frame or two is distorted or lost. I probably wouldn't rely on a Purple drive by itself for normal data, but in a RAID array where you already have parity, it should be just fine.
Purple drives have firmware (they say) tuned to writing multiple streams of data with as little loss as possible. All these drives are the same inside, it would be neat if we could chose the firmware or behavior ourselves.
I bought a HGST 10TB, but it was labeled as used in data center, the seller said most drives had around 5yrs of POT, mine only had 3yrs and a total of 27 power on cycles. Drive has been working great and at half the price I’d say it’s a bargain.
@@wintutorials2282 Yep, Just saw a deep dive. Your chances are very good even if used for hard labour. i'd only worry if I was about to return it to hard labour. Home media or med. to moderate self hosting with hot swap and redundancy should pose no hardships on these warrriors. (Anything critical, throw in an off-site personal S3 bucket or dirt cheap AWS Storage Bucket ). Lots of em out there, you just hope you don't get unlucky.
I just got a renewed 10tb ultrastar. The power cycle is only 58 but the powered on hours are 57000! I’m not sure if i should use it. Made me think if i should’ve just bought a new one 😅
I recently purchased two 12TB MDD NAS drives listed as Amazon renewed. Both drives are actually unsold Seagate EXOS x14 12TB drives that were then offloaded to MDD which did the rebrand on them. The Model and Serial #'s identified by UnRaid were checked against the Seagate serial number checker and both were found in the Seagate database. $250 drives for $95 each. Also, both were displaying 0 power on hours when I checked the status of both disks.
Thanks! Surveillance hard drives are designed, mainly in firmware, to be written to constantly and read from infrequently, since most files are never accessed after being created. I'll add that many 're-certified' hard drives have never been used at all. Sellers have to agree to a price floor for new drives so they relabel them as 're-certified' when they have a big stockpile of these drives. I recently bought two Seagate 12TB EXOS enterprise drives for $85 each and am convinced these drives have never been used. Should last for years in my RAID1 NAS.
Yeah, I wonder too if some drives that barely have any time and look brand-new -- are really just brand-new drives. But, honestly, kindof doesn't matter, because older drives stay alive for longer time frames now -- other than Seagate. That is the only drive that I have ever had trouble with, and it was right-of-box almost. Did have a Toshiba fail after 3 or 4 years.
Cool, if you get it past the first year, you shoud get many. $85 usd Good score. I'll be looking for the same soon. I'll have to find an insider to tell when and where to look for best inventories. Used to be I could figure it out by shopping pricing history and future product launches. Now the 'roll-over' of inovation and material supply (basically chips) and supply chain issues make this much tougher. In tech I prefer to sail 2-3 yrs behind, after all the bugs have been worked out. And they flog off stuff to make room for the 'next best thing.' Now with the amount of stuff coming off lease, it's never been better. Look at the price of memory FFS.
pre-WD HGST drives are practically indestructible after not dying for a year or so. i remember data center techs just throwing them across the room into a bin next to the tape backup machine and they didn't care.
I have a HGST 4TB drive in my machine currently. I never bothered to look until this week for up time, as I am building a new RAID Media server. The thing has 101509 hours of on time 🤣🤣 It is from 2013
I have 4 12TB renewed HGST drives from Amazon. They are in my Plex RAID server. When I checked initial SMART data on them, they appear to have been used for 4 years of continuous service. That's typical for a server drive. They are all working just fine. Had two in service for 4 years now, and two are recently added.
Power on hours is not a good metric all by itself, you also really want to pay attention to power on count, the number of times the disc has started and stopped. These data center drives are perfectly happy to be turned on and left on all the time, if it's not doing anything the heads will park, and the motor just spins it's fine. They don't really like being started and stopped, it's like thermal cycling: hot is fine, cold fine, going from hot to cold and back is not. For an ssd power on count is useless, and power on hours is also a lot less helpful, what you really want is the total data that's ever been written to the drive over its life. The fact that the disc info said 0 hours doesn't mean it's "really refurbished" it could mean the entire "refurbishing" process is wiping the drive's smart data, it's actually a bad sign not a good sign, because you're never going to actually know the drive's true metrics.
That's why I paid the extra $15 for three years of insurance on it. For $11 a terabyte I think that's still worth it. I think I heard somewhere what you said about ssds. Thanks for sharing your knowledge and insight. I wish I knew a way to do a deeper dive on the hard drive after the smart data has been erased or reset
That drive says "RECERTIFIED" on the label. Which means at a certain point it failed, was sent back to WD and fixed. SMART data was deleted in the process. Renewed/refurbished drives are drives that have been decommissioned, wiped and resold. SMART data may or may not be there. Certain companies (e.g. MDD) use their own labels so that the manufacturing date can be omitted.
The technology in R/W on the purple drive is what makes it for surv. use. It's a large capacity shingled drive. Not super fast R/W speeds, but great for large file transfers.
Others have mentioned, but the various "types" of drives mostly differ in how well they cope with vibration (ie from many other drives in the same enclosure) and how they handle read/write errors. A drive meant for RAID duty will usually have a shorter error recovery time (8 seconds) than a desktop drive to make sure it's not dropped from the RAID completely. Similar thing to a surveillance drive. Better for an error or two than a minutes long recovery attempt, when those minutes might have valuable surveillance that doesn't get recorded.
Last night I received a brand new Seagate Ironwolf 20tb from Amazon. When I tired it on for the first time it made a squeezing noise like a squeaking wheel on a car for two minutes. The drive would not let me initialize it on Windows and my MacBook Pro would also not even recognize it. I sent it back.
Speaking of lemons, Seagate is the only drive manufacturer that I do not trust. I've had back luck with Seagate drives, and that's almost brand-new and out-of-box. I had one fail after just day of use -- enough time to move all my shit to it. Then, the second one, I barely used, pulled it out of my system (because it was a 2 TB), then put in a Toshiba 3tb. I forgot about the Seagate 2tb for years, and pulled it out to just keep it on a spare system. And, it was like new, used for maybe few days or few weeks, but no time for a hard drive. Then, I damned put it into that system, started moving files to it, and TRUST ME -- it was acting fine. But, then it started having squek noises and head sounding like it was moving back & forth too much. Started having read errors, then couldnt' write. So, I took it out, and I was past warranty -- but I called & tried to get them to take it back, like nothing hours on it. But, they said it was out-of-warranty, even if no use. Thus, I will never, never, never get another Seagate. Toshiba treated me fine after that 3TB failed (failed few days outside of its warranty), but they / Toshiba sent me a new one.
Surveillance drives generally have very high endurance as they need to write continuously. Mechanically, they tend to have motors tuned to be used 24/7/365, better spindles and magnets depending on the drive. The best surveillance drives also have better vibration control mechanisms but I personally haven't seen much difference in all the consumer facing hdds. As far as renewed/ refurbished drives, they are very good options for bulk storage, especially when you can buy more than about 1.5 compared to new... Preferably 2 for 1 is my target cause there will be failures (about 10% in my experience in the first year) but if you got two that's about 1% for both to be duds. Of course avoid storing mission critical stuff on it without a backup. Other than that, they are great imho.
Pretty nice video! I have been contemplating getting one of these hard drives from Amazon Renewed for Cold storage and I think you made that decision a little bit easier.
Drives optimized for “DVR”/surveillance/streaming generally have firmware optimized to minimize interruption of read/write performance, even if that results in slightly lower random access performance. They may also use a larger internal sector size since random writes aren’t expected to occur frequently. Some might also use SMR for higher capacities, although that doesn’t appear to be the case with your WD Purple 2TB.
you'll find most items marked renewed are actually new items that were returned and never used at all, but can no longer be sold as new. A surveilance drive uses "shingle" method of storage(interleaving) that is the data is overlapped with the previous track like shingles on a roof. this makes more storage in the same space as a smaller faster writing drive.
Thanks, looking at a nas. used mech is getting really affordable. Stout heart required. surprised how many new arrive doa or fail nearly immediatly. Good used 1-2 yr old for sometimes half the price could keep me from getting too unneccesarily extravagant $800 tax/del in TerreMaster F8 all SSD. I'm scared to even figure out the cost of loading the slots lol. Anyways, just subbed. Your experience will lessen the curve.
Hi Grant! After one year since you uploaded this video, how is the drive working? Has it already failed or is it still good? I’m considering on buying one, half the price is great for me. Thanks for the video!
Comparison between new and old drivers are not fair. Data rate on HDDs are not constant and will drop when approaching the center, since tracks are shorter. Generally it's up to 250 on outer edge and nearly to 180 on inside. I saw that old ones are nearly 80% full. Also fragmentation gets in the way with full drive. At this point if the drive is at least half full it should go at 200 MiB/s. Still good enough for backup.
I've been buying used drives off Amazon for our office for decades. They're all enterprise drives, all in RAIDs, so not much of a downside. Very few failures. I've had more trouble with brand new servers & drives than I have the used stuff.
1:28 "Big boring Western Digital hard drive"... you mustn't fully comprehend what you're holding--this is the first 3.5-inch drive on Earth to ever boast 9-platters (18 heads), the first drive to ever debut a triple-stage head actuator, the first drive to use EAMR (energy-assisted conventional magnetic recording) and that's barely the start of the Ultrastar HC550's sophistication.
I had no idea, there was no fancy signage, or documentation telling me how awesome it is. They could have made the exterior look more exciting to match
@@GrantButler You’re forgiven :-) but look closely at the underside of the drive. You won’t see many others that use every millimeter available to fit all those platters-a huge bulge under there compared to other drives-also much heavier. The WD Support site has a full manual and White Papers featuring the advancements in the HC550 Ultrastar.
In my NAS I've two HDD with 75khrs pwon. As long as they last I'm ok. I've backup of all data. Think this: you can buy some different used disks from many different vendors at the price of 1 new from a single vendor. Depending on use, it is very interesting.
My self I stopped using standard hard drives in my desktop PC's around 10 years ago. Reason being well known brand name drives kept getting the click of death I got sick and tired spending money to replace them over and over. One of my SSD's I got laying around is 10 years old now and the thing still going strong.
For $170 US dollars you can get 2TB - 4TB SSD depending on the brand name on Amazon. For that price I still would choose a SSD over a HDD and don't have to think twice about it. Heck I got a 8TB HDD laying around here some where can't remember where I got it from. I don't even know why I'm hanging on to the thing since I don't use HDD's anymore for storage. Perhaps I'll blast a few holes in the thing at some point and get rid of it.
@@GrantButler My self I will choose that method any day of the week and twice on Sunday. For me using a HDD for storage no matter the reason is not a option anymore. But hey people can do what they want it's their money. My self I'm not using another standard HDD ever again my trust in them is gone and not coming back.
Just Received my Exact Same HDD from "tech on tech." Looks Prestine! Recert date: May 17, 2023 Pwr on hrs: 0 Pwr on cnt: 1 I believe these are WD refurb HDD. I am currently running a scan, to ensure any bad sectors. Yes, HDD is not warranted by WD. Checked the Status and it shows its expired, or Out of Warranty. I ordered a 14TB HDD from the same seller, to pair it in my 2 bay Enclosure. Will Update with results of scan, and if the 14tb is the same.
0 bad sectors, performed very well during the scan (22hrs), and didn't make much noise apart the usual sounds. waiting for the 14tb hdd to be delivered@@GrantButler
Interesting video. Thanks for showing us. For me, I don't like the real big drive, because if it ever fails, it'd take forever to reload it. So, I just buy 6TB or 8TB and have two of them where it won't take hours (say a week-long task) to copy back onto it.
You didn't have to use the adaptor for SAS to SATA? - Or Kapton tape over the 3rd pin for HDD OFF/ON State? - What kind of setup do you have if you never had to do any of that... ??
I bought a couple of 'renewed' drives from Amazon a couple of years ago... just to see what the heck it was. You can't 'renew' a hard drive. Wear is wear. The SMART data was cleared by the people who 'refurbished' it- so I couldn't see how many years it was spinning away in some data center... I got one that had not been cleared.. and it shows like 5 years worth in hours. Well, they lasted a few months. Thankfully I had nothing important on it and what was on it was just test stuff... yea they blank the SMART data so it looks 'new'.
There are some drives which are actually new but sold as "renewed" or "refurbished". I have a EXOS that was new but not sold as new. The reason that they do this is some wholesalers aren't contractually allowed to sell below a certain price if they sell the drive as new but they are allowed to sell "renewed" or "refurbished" drives for the lower price so that's what they do.
I have similar thoughts that when a drive goes in for renewal it has been spinning and churning in a data center somewhere and shows up in lots. These are not from granny's PC who is sending emails and porn to her grandkids. Platters are worn, read write heads are worn and perhaps covered in residue and maybe throw in some head damage. I live in an area where it is impossible to send them back to Amzn by Fedex which costs more than the drive. For that reason why take a chance.
"WD Purple drives are engineered specifically for surveillance to help withstand the elevated heat fluctuations and equipment vibrations within NVR environments. An average desktop drive is built to run for only short intervals, not the harsh 24/7 always-on environment of a high-definition surveillance system. Purple is rated for 300,000 load/unload cycles vs Red's 600,000 cycles. Purple edges out Red in noise, 26 dBA vs 28 dBA while seeking."
The RPM doesn’t say that much about its speed, when the capacity is a lot different. Imagine: both have 5 platters, this means that 16TB drive has 16 times the data density of the 1TB drive. So with each rotation, the heads travel over a much larger amount of data, compared to the 1TB drive. Keep in mind though; The density per ring of data on each platter of course isn’t simply multiplied by 16. It’s probably “only” doubled. Though the decreased distance between each ring of data takes care of a lot of the increments in data density. That explains the significant speed gain.
1 TB drives haven’t had five platters since CPU’s had 8 bits 🤓 (ok, slight exageration) Modern 1TB drives have at most two platters This 16TB has five platters, thus ten heads per ‘cylinder’, which is 100% electronic switching.
with any single "large capacity" drive or NAS RAID volume, always use less than "full capacity". I tend to use 93-90%, this way in case I overload the drive I still have some overhead that I can allocate in order to get back into the drive... just sayn.....
Despite the advances in NVME SSDs and SATA disk 2.5p, I still use the old HDD, with plenty of storage for backups and even better than 10 years ago, today we have HDDs of up to 30TB for residential benches announced recently, with certain However, not all domestic users use this type of mass storage, but I believe that the options from 8TB to 18TB are more atypical in residential homes. Where the 1TB to 6TB ones were more atypical, today they are more massive, the trend is to have more HDD options not to be left aside because mass storage for $$
Yeah, you don't need high speed for most storage applications. When I'm editing videos I move the files to a folder on my Ssd then when I'm done I move it all over to the HDD
I've been running recertified HGST drives in a stripe of 6 mirrored pairs (ZFS) on my NAS for several years. No issues, whatsoever. Obviously I don't cycle data quite as much as an enterprise install would, but I have a very large media library on it that sees lots of use daily. I'll probably start swapping in larger drives sometime in the next year. They're not quiet drives, but I don't mind their clicking and whirring - I remember, fondly, the loudness of drives of my youth... and that system lives in a closet in a room that I no longer use as my office, so I don't hear it anymore anyway. lol I dunno if I'd want to run one on its own, but in a mirrored set, so you're relatively well protected from data loss/failure, yea they're a solid deal imho.
@@GrantButler I picked up a 3u case with a dozen hot-swap bays years back, dropped a used dual xeon supermicro board into it. I run proxmox on it and share the big zfs pool to the various virtual machines, one of which is turnkey linux's fileserver image so it's available as a samba share on the home network. Each pair of drives are mirrored, and the 6 mirrors are striped together. I've replaced all the drives, with larger drives once already, just have to do one side of each pair at a time, resilvering the other - then can expand to the full size of the larger disks. not too difficult. something like a radi 5 or 6 configuration would yield way more space, but I do like the peace of mind of a full mirror rather than having to rebuild from parity, which would take days on a large pool. lol
Surveillance drives have a high write endurance and slow read performance. They are optimized to be written many times over but the speed of watching a video is not as important because how often are you viewing recoded video vs how often are you writing to the drive.
4:22 That's actually GiB in Windows, but it incorrectly displays as GB. GibiBytes are worth a bit more than GigaBytes, be sure that the drive is actually 16.000GB.
Drive manufacturers inflate drive capacities using the decimal system, while Windows accurately reports the usable space based on the binary system. 14.9tb is the result of the lie.
@@keilveil9153 The only lie is Microsoft who displays "GB" while actually using GiB. It's the only OS that incorrectly report storage values, Mac OS and Linux display the correct unit. However if you right click and select "Properties" on your disk, you'll be able to see the disk size in bytes, showing accurate values.
Nice brief video. Recently, i was planning to buy a refubished amazon Ultrastar 12 tb but I got a new 14 tb good offer. In specs, the Ultrastar works like the WD Black, which one is over priced. Is your refubished HDD still working? I ask you because those ones are 3 warranty months. Nice video, something you could do is un explain the diference among hdd colors, the correct use of each one. Do you think refubished hard driver are better just for backup or they can york well inside the computer?
@Seujiro so I think I actually mentioned it in the video, but I'm not sure what the differences are in the hard drive colors and their best use cases. I think there's some people in the comments that have answered that question though. As for this hard drive in the video it is still running great. I use it to store video files that I'm editing.
If you haven't found any info, then I won't look. I guess the only thing that matters is if you got your money's worth. Just to let you know, I bought 5 2tb used drives for what I would have paid for one new one. I checked and the oldest had less than 1,000 hours on it. Four of them around 100 hours and none of them have any bad sectors. I guess I got my money's worth.@@GrantButler
What is the crystal link site you used to assess your drives? I typed it in google and a few different sites popped up. I'm not sure which one is legit. Thank you
Gran video amigo, me sirvió de ayuda y compré una unidad seagate entreprise de 4tb renovada como excelente de Amazon por unos $60 y también se encuentra en excelente condicion
Would you recommend a normal new SMR disc or a refurbished one that is CMR both have a 2 year warranty? Or, for example, for the same price a normal CMR disk of 8tb or a refurbished 12tb for the same price?
That's hard to say, I'm not sure of the performance differences between SMR & CMR and their reliability or issues. Personally I'd probably go for the 12TB for the same price with 2yr warranty.
I can answer you about Surveillance, I had some disks rated like that not NAS and what happens is if a sector of the disk is corrupted it will still try to write data on that block, so you endup with corrupted data, for surveillance it doesn't matter you need to have the information, the NAS rated ones if they detect a bad sector they will not use it
Where did you get the option for the 3 year warranty for $15. I followed the link and usually it will automatically ask me if I want an optional warranty for other items, but that didn't appear when I added this to the cart.
@@GrantButler I just picked up 3 8TB HGST drives off eBay that are supposedly the same type of thing ... eBay certified refurbished. They all had 65000 hours on them, but they came with a 3 year warranty. I had 4 8TB HGST's laying around and wanted to fully populate my new Ubiquity UNAS Pro. But when I saw your video about 16TB drives ... I was thinking about really going nuts. 😁😁
I've had excellent luck with refurbished HGST/Hitachi ultrastar drives. The operating hours would spook anyone but SMART reports an otherwise healthy drive
Hard disk sentinel for more status , sector check Also Dr revitalize can certify HDD by writing and reading. And also reset smart data like 0 hour usage
i just got a 14tb version of this for $130 its showing it has 4yrs,64days,5hrs(36581 hours) of run time with 11 power on count. may return this because it dont seem like a very good deal for it to last a year or maybe a few years
$17 per TB is what i paid for brand new WD Red Plus at BessBuy (excuse the typo). Recert / Renewed are not trustworthy EXCEPT you know it's a Datacenter drive = perfect Temperature, no Vibration, no Mishandling by Hobbyists.
I have a SanDisk portable ssd i used it before now my PC not recognizing it. I noticed your (H) and (J) drives saying no media i tried everything watch a lot of UA-cam videos and nothing works that can fix the issue. Did you able to your PC to recognize those drives? Thanks
@GrantButler the removable no media is that normal for a portable ssd drive. I saved pictures and videos on the drive now my PC not reading the ssd. Thanks for your response.
Hi Does the sticker say Refurbished on the hard disk or do the manufacturers hide it? I found a cheap hard drive in my local store, but the sellers in 3 stores claim that the hard drive is not refurbished, while in one they say it is. And in the picture on the label there are no stickers that it is, can the manufacturers hide it? Thank you
@@GrantButler If you ask me this is a big scam! I bought a used seagate and it says "certified repaired HDD" So whoever bought it knew it wasn't new. But if they don't put a label on this, it's a big fraud, and it's impossible to prove that it is. In the store they told me that this same disc as yours was not refurbished, and the same label on Amazon tells me that it is. And now I can't prove in the store that it is. Is there a program for that?
vibration isn't noticeable, but the sound can be fairly noticeable. You may even here it from time to time in my videos. I wouldn't say its a problem though.
I worked at an Amazon renew shop. That experience has made me extremely skeptical. My limited understanding of hard drives also leads to me thinking this is a bit of a scam. To me this is like retreading a car tire. Hopefully the drive functions for a long time. I would not trust it with my backups.
@@GrantButler we put new SSDs into old toughbook laptops, cleaned the exterior and reinstalled windows. sometimes added ram. Threw away all the old hard drives. For me, wiping the online time is problematic if the mechanism that spins the disk is original.. I’m not really sure what breaks down on a HDD. I can’t imagine a process that adds value in the renewed HDD vs a used one with it’s true mileage.
So this is really interesting ... I decided to look who the actual sellers are on amazon ... this drive is sold by techontech which is in sanford florida, and the new 20tb toshiba drive i also mentioned which is a great deal on amazon - guess where that seller's located? yup you got it, sanford florida. this time called server tech repairs, but its exactly the same building.... 111 Central Park Pl #109, Sanford, FL 32771, USA .. So all these drives on amazon are more or less coming from one small shared warehouse space in florida. Im not convinced that 20tb toshiba is actually new after all ... Also Im not sure I want to trust my data to some repair shop in florida that dismantles old servers and ships them off round the world, sometimes listing them as refurbished, sometimes not.
@@GrantButler I've heard laptops don't fit hard drives in them which are 3.5” and no matter which laptop you look at they never give details relating to the if they're 2.5" or 3.5" in that regard, problem is 2.5" hdd's are too small in storage capacity and external ones break too easy.
@@GrantButler Wow thanks I am not in USA but I might be able to find that on a UK website too, I have great difficulty finding things like that, do you have any advise to help me find very large 2.5" internal hd's, the 8 tb is great but what is the highest 2.5" goes to?
What was the warranty that came with the disk? Extra warranties on individual items are almost always a waste of money and over all your purchases are always a waste-especially if you have adequate savings.
Exactly, never should hard drive and renewed be in the same sentence. It’s mechanical and electrical, to be renewed it would have to come off the factory floor, with every component replaced. Not impossible but impractical and never done as far as I know. It’s normally a data center hard drive that’s been running close to average failure rate in either years, power cycles, bad sectors, or model that has been shown to have a high failure rate that they replacing. Some one purchased for cheaeeeeeeep in bulk, and reset the smart data and listed for RENEWED. I have purchased the before for home lab, but I won’t any longer. 2 out of six have failed in less than 2 months. But I have several that are several years old, and run 27/7 in my NAS’s. When I build a NAS I test run them hard for days, constantly reading and writhing to drives to find any issues before deploying.
It’s not mission critical, I have three NAS’s so backup, backup,backup, and sync with cloud for really important stuff. RAID or a NAS is not a back up, only a backup to a backup in 2 locations is sound data recovery security.
Unless the drive comes with OEM warranty, the drive isnt refurbished it is just used. No thirdparty is breaking down a HDD to resell. All "renew" means someone checked the drive visually, ran a SMART to check that it doesnt have BAD Sectors. As for O hours, it just mean SMART data has been wiped.
@@GrantButler You don't, it's pot luck, so buying from reputable thirdparty "warranty" is a must. A technician will take 50 minutes to well over an hour plus to open/check/replace/close a HDD parts, add labour/overheads/cost to aquire the drive, it makes more economic sense to do perform a software test, than repackage all that passed to sell, expecting X% to need warranty replacement. Hence "renewed" rather than refurbished from reputable sellers. How long will it last even new some are DOA, some die in 6 months but pass 24 months many will last 5 yeras and a good percentage 10 years. The biggest killer of HDD that was wun 24/7 for years is actually power down transportation and start/stop of HDD once out of the DC
Hi everyone - OK - I have a question that I HOPE you can help me with. My system runs an MSI B450 Tomohawk Max II motherboard... Now - when I used to build PC's years ago - each chipset had a maximum addressable hard drive capacity... I have contacted MSI a few times and their answer has been... "Meh - try it - let us know..." I can afford the huge drives - just. I cant waste the money though. Can anyone advise either a reliable source that can quote the maximum capicity the chipset can address, or even have experience using it to anything over 4TB? Per channel? (I have a 2TBNvme, so 2 channels are closed on this chipset, leaving 4 open). Please do not leave "Just upgrade your mobo brah" messages - my build is imbedded and can't be changed - I just need to know how large a drive I can fit on the last four ports? I'm happy to buy anything but I can only do it once - so I have to be careful...[EDIT] - Grant - Dont forget level ram - 7200rpm vs 5400 rpm IS importand - but LV2 ram is more important you can have a slow 7200rpm with 64 or 128mb lv2... and a and a very fast 5400rpm with 256mb... That cache is veryimportant especially for "broken files" by which I mean music, video etc - Moving one film - fine. The same amount of data in 2000 small files - worse... LV2 cahe is very important. If you can find the golden goose of 7200rpm and 256MB - you're close to SSD baby!!!!
From what I can see online, it should be good for 18 exabytes (18 million TB) the limitations were from your operating system not the mother board. If you are using 64bit operating system. If you're using a 32 bit operating system, (Very out-dated) you're limited to 2 TB.
@@GrantButler Hi Grant - thanks for the reply. No, I'm on a 64bit OS (Win 11 Pro)... I get that the mathematical limits are as you say - honestly I didn't go THAT far!!! thank you!!! but chipsets tend to limit things in different ways - hence 64/128/256/1024GB ram limits on very similar boards. I'm just worried about but a massive drive and my motherboard not being able to see it... Maybe I should stick to 4TB... Just to be clear - its not the math thats my problem - its the chipsets... I've had issues before where a PC wouldn't work purely because the Motherboard could not "see" the drive - it was too large. Thats all.
@damightyshabba439 how long ago was that issue? What was that system running (windows version?) I don't know everything, I was just going off of what I could find.
@@GrantButler In fairness - a long time ago - I used to be an IT manager and I bought a bunch of drives - turned out our servers didn't support that capacity. Then the same thing happened at home. This is Win 2000 - Win 7 Era. (Vista, but we dropped that VERY fast!) I guess my worries may be based on old problems that have been solved? But the B450 is itself old.... The last of my savings going on this - I need it to work!
@bertussss mine make noise, but not not that much. Either you must have a top of the line super quiet washing machine, or something is wrong. It may also be that; it is not isolated very well and resonating with your PC &/or whatever it's on to emphasize the sound.
You blocked out the serial number when showing the drive but didn't when showing crystal :) Good stuff. Thanks for the review, might pick up one. I'm a follow grant!
I just bought 2 renewed Seagate Enterprise drives for media using Plex in raid 1 in a 2bay raid incloser i got on sale for $56 connected to a beelink Mini PC Total investment about $650 😂 runs like a champ
I think that is makes more sense to get it refurbished because then you can now have 2 hard drives instead of 1. So now you use RAID and have redundancy
It's very easy to wipe the SMART data and do zero work for real renewed drive status, that drives reading arm is making the same noises a drive that at the end of it's life, 30K+ hours power on, would make. I too have bought renewed drives off Amazon, Ebay and way back in the day craigslist,, ANY time a drive makes abnormal noises I return them or refuse the purchase. Another great piece of advice is to look at failure rates of drives on a massive scale which is usually public provided data from large hosting providers, Like AWS, Google, etc. They commonly list the drive model numbers, so you can make a more educated buying decision when looking at used drives.
Speaking of lemons, Seagate is the only drive manufacturer that I do not trust. I've had back luck with Seagate drives, and that's almost brand-new and out-of-box. I had one fail after just day of use -- enough time to move all my shit to it. Then, the second one, I barely used, pulled it out of my system (because it was a 2 TB), then put in a Toshiba 3tb. I forgot about the Seagate 2tb for years, and pulled it out to just keep it on a spare system. And, it was like new, used for maybe few days or few weeks, but no time for a hard drive. Then, I damned put it into that system, started moving files to it, and TRUST ME -- it was acting fine. But, then it started having squek noises and head sounding like it was moving back & forth too much. Started having read errors, then couldnt' write. So, I took it out, and I was past warranty -- but I called & tried to get them to take it back, like nothing hours on it. But, they said it was out-of-warranty, even if no use. Thus, I will never, never, never get another Seagate. Toshiba treated me fine after that 3TB failed (failed few days outside of its warranty), but they / Toshiba sent me a new one.
@@GrantButler Hmm, pretty sure it's still a thing, perhaps even more so with the miniaturisation of components. Latent damage may catch you out in future but you'd likely just put it down to a regular failure and not something caused by static 6 months earlier.
I have this drive - its super annoying - you cant use it in an enclosure because it requires the special adapter cable. Also the price isnt worth it ... this one is 24.4$nzd/tb ... and it was released 3 years ago so it could have had a LOT of use on it .......... but since you can get a brand new toshiba MG10 20tb for 33$nzd/tb honestly its not worth the risk considering the years of life youre gonna be losing.
Interestingly, my first HDD cost me $11/MB, in the late 80’s. $1100 for a 100MB drive was a good deal then.
😅😅
it would cost 176,000,000 dollars back then for 16 tb 😅
@@sara-go9mt plus many millions more for the SCSI controllers and RAID cages needed to put that much online. And the floor space and cooling alone might make it cost prohibitive.
1:47 The extra 2 pins on the drive is for an activity LED. Pretty common for servers so you can see if the drive is functioning while it's inside the rack
Awesome! Thanks for sharing the knowledge!
Generally, a great video, but with one serious flaw IMHO. I have purchased about 20 Amazon renewed HDDs for my Home Media Server, and only a couple were defective. However, I recently received 2 HDDs that both passed the Quick Format but both failed the Extended Format - which checks the entire HDD. You just cannot assume that a successful Quick Format ensures you have a good drive. Although it takes hours and hours to run the Full Format on a HDD, it will check the entire HDD and let you know if there are problems. Better to find those defects when scanning the Full Format for hours and hours then putting the HDD in your computer after a successful Quick Format and only have it err out in a few weeks, months, etc... when the Amazon return period is over. BTW, the seller of the Amazon renewed HDDs I ordered never responded to my emails about their defective HDDs. Good luck on any seller warranty from them beyond the Amazon return period. These Amazon renewed HDDs can be a great value, BUT you have to really run them through the long, extended testing and Full Format option before putting them in use.
Thanks, that's definitely something worth considering. The $15 of insurance that I got is definitely worth the difference in your case.
@@GrantButler It might be a good idea to get an extended warranty, but the renewed HDDs I got from Amazon have a 5-year seller's warranty. I use these renewed HDDs in my Home Media Server where loss of data is not critical. If they wipe all stats from the HDD, you really don't know how many hours there are on that drive. If you can use them in a pool of drives with some kind of redundancy for HDD failure, then all the better. I still think it's a great deal provided the HDD passes the extended tests.
[...never responded to my emails about their defective HDDs. Good luck on any seller warranty from them beyond the Amazon return period. ]
So... don't put too much into seller's 5 yr.
FULLY format checking/repair each section..
$15 bucks to Amazon (who've been great with me) for maybe.
And use in a redundant array ... Awesome guys, thanks
Unless mistaken S.M.A.R.T. Information is understood to be reset therefore it's very difficult to tell how much these hard disk drives have been used.
Very true, is there any other way to see drive usage history?
@wojtek-33 yeah, I have everything backed up
Same here: I bough a renewed 3 TB Seagate Compute HDD days ago, that I'm currently testing. Sounds healthy so far, but its Powered on hours was reading "1" when I started using it.
Kind of a lottery I guess: you can hope to pull the barely used, returned product rather than a well-used one.
Why don’t they just sell used cars with the odometer reset to 0
I've never seen one from Amazon Renewed with the power on hours reset to zero. Seems a little like resetting an odometer on a used car and should be illegal. More typical for renewed enterprise drives from data farms to have 25,000 to 35,000 hours on them.
I have read somewhere that part of the renew process is the resetting of the stats. So it is unlikely that the drive has not hours on it. The likelihood is that it has many hours on it. The thing is you will never be able to tell, you can just see how long it lasts. I think it's ok as long as you have your data somewhere else, but i would not rely on it as the only place you have your data, you need multiple copies just in case it fails.
@markwith140 yeah, I think an IT world they teach the rule of threes two on site and one off-site in case something happens.
From what I've heard, Purple drives are designed more for continuous use, but focus less on data consistency. You shouldn't get any bad reads, but with video surveillance it's not really a big deal if a frame or two is distorted or lost. I probably wouldn't rely on a Purple drive by itself for normal data, but in a RAID array where you already have parity, it should be just fine.
Thanks for sharing the knowledge
Except Gold and Black, every color of WD HDDs are the same.
The differences are just some flags is firmware.
@@UCAJq2oN0BQLFi3aAhhsX8-A thanks
Purple drives have firmware (they say) tuned to writing multiple streams of data with as little loss as possible. All these drives are the same inside, it would be neat if we could chose the firmware or behavior ourselves.
I bought a HGST 10TB, but it was labeled as used in data center, the seller said most drives had around 5yrs of POT, mine only had 3yrs and a total of 27 power on cycles. Drive has been working great and at half the price I’d say it’s a bargain.
Thats a killer Bargain!
Yeah thats the one im getting!
@@wintutorials2282 Yep, Just saw a deep dive. Your chances are very good even if used for hard labour.
i'd only worry if I was about to return it to hard labour.
Home media or med. to moderate self hosting with hot swap and redundancy should pose no hardships on these warrriors. (Anything critical, throw in an off-site personal S3 bucket or dirt cheap AWS Storage Bucket ).
Lots of em out there, you just hope you don't get unlucky.
I just got a renewed 10tb ultrastar. The power cycle is only 58 but the powered on hours are 57000! I’m not sure if i should use it. Made me think if i should’ve just bought a new one 😅
I recently purchased two 12TB MDD NAS drives listed as Amazon renewed. Both drives are actually unsold Seagate EXOS x14 12TB drives that were then offloaded to MDD which did the rebrand on them. The Model and Serial #'s identified by UnRaid were checked against the Seagate serial number checker and both were found in the Seagate database. $250 drives for $95 each. Also, both were displaying 0 power on hours when I checked the status of both disks.
@@OuRuKai that's sick! Nice job!
Thanks! Surveillance hard drives are designed, mainly in firmware, to be written to constantly and read from infrequently, since most files are never accessed after being created.
I'll add that many 're-certified' hard drives have never been used at all. Sellers have to agree to a price floor for new drives so they relabel them as 're-certified' when they have a big stockpile of these drives. I recently bought two Seagate 12TB EXOS enterprise drives for $85 each and am convinced these drives have never been used. Should last for years in my RAID1 NAS.
Yeah, I wonder too if some drives that barely have any time and look brand-new -- are really just brand-new drives. But, honestly, kindof doesn't matter, because older drives stay alive for longer time frames now -- other than Seagate. That is the only drive that I have ever had trouble with, and it was right-of-box almost. Did have a Toshiba fail after 3 or 4 years.
Cool, if you get it past the first year, you shoud get many. $85 usd Good score. I'll be looking for the same soon.
I'll have to find an insider to tell when and where to look for best inventories.
Used to be I could figure it out by shopping pricing history and future product launches.
Now the 'roll-over' of inovation and material supply (basically chips) and supply chain
issues make this much tougher.
In tech I prefer to sail 2-3 yrs behind, after all the bugs have been worked out. And they flog off stuff to make room for the 'next best thing.' Now with the amount of stuff coming off lease, it's never been better. Look at the price of memory FFS.
pre-WD HGST drives are practically indestructible after not dying for a year or so. i remember data center techs just throwing them across the room into a bin next to the tape backup machine and they didn't care.
😲 Wow!
I have a HGST 4TB drive in my machine currently. I never bothered to look until this week for up time, as I am building a new RAID Media server. The thing has 101509 hours of on time 🤣🤣 It is from 2013
I have 4 12TB renewed HGST drives from Amazon. They are in my Plex RAID server. When I checked initial SMART data on them, they appear to have been used for 4 years of continuous service. That's typical for a server drive. They are all working just fine. Had two in service for 4 years now, and two are recently added.
@@GlassWolfLH awesome!
Surveillance is meant to be written 24/7 non stop, red is 24/7 powered on. BTW the warranty doesn't cover enterprise drives.
Interesting, thanks!
Power on hours is not a good metric all by itself, you also really want to pay attention to power on count, the number of times the disc has started and stopped. These data center drives are perfectly happy to be turned on and left on all the time, if it's not doing anything the heads will park, and the motor just spins it's fine. They don't really like being started and stopped, it's like thermal cycling: hot is fine, cold fine, going from hot to cold and back is not.
For an ssd power on count is useless, and power on hours is also a lot less helpful, what you really want is the total data that's ever been written to the drive over its life.
The fact that the disc info said 0 hours doesn't mean it's "really refurbished" it could mean the entire "refurbishing" process is wiping the drive's smart data, it's actually a bad sign not a good sign, because you're never going to actually know the drive's true metrics.
That's why I paid the extra $15 for three years of insurance on it. For $11 a terabyte I think that's still worth it. I think I heard somewhere what you said about ssds. Thanks for sharing your knowledge and insight. I wish I knew a way to do a deeper dive on the hard drive after the smart data has been erased or reset
That drive says "RECERTIFIED" on the label. Which means at a certain point it failed, was sent back to WD and fixed. SMART data was deleted in the process.
Renewed/refurbished drives are drives that have been decommissioned, wiped and resold. SMART data may or may not be there.
Certain companies (e.g. MDD) use their own labels so that the manufacturing date can be omitted.
@bufordmaddogtannen super interesting, thank you for sharing
The technology in R/W on the purple drive is what makes it for surv. use. It's a large capacity shingled drive. Not super fast R/W speeds, but great for large file transfers.
@@GlassWolfLH good to know, thank you!
Others have mentioned, but the various "types" of drives mostly differ in how well they cope with vibration (ie from many other drives in the same enclosure) and how they handle read/write errors. A drive meant for RAID duty will usually have a shorter error recovery time (8 seconds) than a desktop drive to make sure it's not dropped from the RAID completely. Similar thing to a surveillance drive. Better for an error or two than a minutes long recovery attempt, when those minutes might have valuable surveillance that doesn't get recorded.
@captain150 that's a great explanation. Thanks for sharing.
Last night I received a brand new Seagate Ironwolf 20tb from Amazon. When I tired it on for the first time it made a squeezing noise like a squeaking wheel on a car for two minutes. The drive would not let me initialize it on Windows and my MacBook Pro would also not even recognize it.
I sent it back.
Weird. I'm in no way connected to or affiliated with Seagate. I just bought it with my own money. Sorry you got a lemon
Speaking of lemons, Seagate is the only drive manufacturer that I do not trust. I've had back luck with Seagate drives, and that's almost brand-new and out-of-box. I had one fail after just day of use -- enough time to move all my shit to it. Then, the second one, I barely used, pulled it out of my system (because it was a 2 TB), then put in a Toshiba 3tb. I forgot about the Seagate 2tb for years, and pulled it out to just keep it on a spare system. And, it was like new, used for maybe few days or few weeks, but no time for a hard drive. Then, I damned put it into that system, started moving files to it, and TRUST ME -- it was acting fine. But, then it started having squek noises and head sounding like it was moving back & forth too much. Started having read errors, then couldnt' write. So, I took it out, and I was past warranty -- but I called & tried to get them to take it back, like nothing hours on it. But, they said it was out-of-warranty, even if no use. Thus, I will never, never, never get another Seagate. Toshiba treated me fine after that 3TB failed (failed few days outside of its warranty), but they / Toshiba sent me a new one.
Surveillance drives generally have very high endurance as they need to write continuously. Mechanically, they tend to have motors tuned to be used 24/7/365, better spindles and magnets depending on the drive. The best surveillance drives also have better vibration control mechanisms but I personally haven't seen much difference in all the consumer facing hdds.
As far as renewed/ refurbished drives, they are very good options for bulk storage, especially when you can buy more than about 1.5 compared to new... Preferably 2 for 1 is my target cause there will be failures (about 10% in my experience in the first year) but if you got two that's about 1% for both to be duds. Of course avoid storing mission critical stuff on it without a backup. Other than that, they are great imho.
Thanks for the informed input
Pretty nice video!
I have been contemplating getting one of these hard drives from Amazon Renewed for Cold storage and I think you made that decision a little bit easier.
i did buy one sale and it worth it but the problem i hate you need power supply
I'm glad this video helped!
@@bearbear8693 what do you mean? I didn't attach any additional power.
@@GrantButler They're likely referring to the SATA power connector which is connected to the power supply.
@dreamfyrethedragon3764 oh, yeah, that makes sense.
Thumbs up for showing how to set the new drive up.
Glad it helped!
Drives optimized for “DVR”/surveillance/streaming generally have firmware optimized to minimize interruption of read/write performance, even if that results in slightly lower random access performance. They may also use a larger internal sector size since random writes aren’t expected to occur frequently.
Some might also use SMR for higher capacities, although that doesn’t appear to be the case with your WD Purple 2TB.
Thanks for the info!
you'll find most items marked renewed are actually new items that were returned and never used at all, but can no longer be sold as new. A surveilance drive uses "shingle" method of storage(interleaving) that is the data is overlapped with the previous track like shingles on a roof. this makes more storage in the same space as a smaller faster writing drive.
@wmgilliland2582 thanks for the info!
SMR also happening in consumer drives, without any indication, apart from model number.
Thanks, looking at a nas. used mech is getting really affordable.
Stout heart required. surprised how many new arrive doa or fail nearly immediatly.
Good used 1-2 yr old for sometimes half the price could keep me from getting too
unneccesarily extravagant $800 tax/del in TerreMaster F8 all SSD.
I'm scared to even figure out the cost of loading the slots lol.
Anyways, just subbed.
Your experience will lessen the curve.
@@philipkeeler9997 so glad to help! I hope tonget to that nas sooner than later
Hi Grant!
After one year since you uploaded this video, how is the drive working? Has it already failed or is it still good?
I’m considering on buying one, half the price is great for me.
Thanks for the video!
@@AlesLomu it's still running great!
Comparison between new and old drivers are not fair. Data rate on HDDs are not constant and will drop when approaching the center, since tracks are shorter. Generally it's up to 250 on outer edge and nearly to 180 on inside. I saw that old ones are nearly 80% full. Also fragmentation gets in the way with full drive. At this point if the drive is at least half full it should go at 200 MiB/s. Still good enough for backup.
@@vadnegru that's super interesting stuff! I didn't know that. Thank you for sharing!
I've been buying used drives off Amazon for our office for decades. They're all enterprise drives, all in RAIDs, so not much of a downside. Very few failures. I've had more trouble with brand new servers & drives than I have the used stuff.
@@grayrabbit2211 nice!
1:28 "Big boring Western Digital hard drive"... you mustn't fully comprehend what you're holding--this is the first 3.5-inch drive on Earth to ever boast 9-platters (18 heads), the first drive to ever debut a triple-stage head actuator, the first drive to use EAMR (energy-assisted conventional magnetic recording) and that's barely the start of the Ultrastar HC550's sophistication.
I had no idea, there was no fancy signage, or documentation telling me how awesome it is. They could have made the exterior look more exciting to match
@@GrantButler You’re forgiven :-) but look closely at the underside of the drive. You won’t see many others that use every millimeter available to fit all those platters-a huge bulge under there compared to other drives-also much heavier. The WD Support site has a full manual and White Papers featuring the advancements in the HC550 Ultrastar.
In my NAS I've two HDD with 75khrs pwon. As long as they last I'm ok. I've backup of all data. Think this: you can buy some different used disks from many different vendors at the price of 1 new from a single vendor. Depending on use, it is very interesting.
@@IU3POA-lp9oi I need to get me a nas
My self I stopped using standard hard drives in my desktop PC's around 10 years ago. Reason being well known brand name drives kept getting the click of death I got sick and tired spending money to replace them over and over. One of my SSD's I got laying around is 10 years old now and the thing still going strong.
I get that, but it's hard to argue with the price! If I didn't say it enough, SSD's are definitely superior, just more expensive.
For $170 US dollars you can get 2TB - 4TB SSD depending on the brand name on Amazon. For that price I still would choose a SSD over a HDD and don't have to think twice about it.
Heck I got a 8TB HDD laying around here some where can't remember where I got it from. I don't even know why I'm hanging on to the thing since I don't use HDD's anymore for storage. Perhaps I'll blast a few holes in the thing at some point and get rid of it.
@@OutlawNix you're talking about 4-8X the price per TB. I have a hard time with that for longterm storage
@@GrantButler My self I will choose that method any day of the week and twice on Sunday. For me using a HDD for storage no matter the reason is not a option anymore.
But hey people can do what they want it's their money. My self I'm not using another standard HDD ever again my trust in them is gone and not coming back.
@@OutlawNix awesome! I'm glad you can do that!
Great content man!
Thank you!
Is there a possibility that during refurbishing, they reset the firmware and overwrote the usage history?
Yes, we just have to hope that's more work than it's worth to be dishonest.
Just Received my Exact Same HDD from "tech on tech."
Looks Prestine!
Recert date: May 17, 2023
Pwr on hrs: 0
Pwr on cnt: 1
I believe these are WD refurb HDD.
I am currently running a scan, to ensure any bad sectors.
Yes, HDD is not warranted by WD. Checked the Status and it shows its expired, or Out of Warranty.
I ordered a 14TB HDD from the same seller, to pair it in my 2 bay Enclosure.
Will Update with results of scan, and if the 14tb is the same.
I will defiantly be interested to know your results!
0 bad sectors, performed very well during the scan (22hrs), and didn't make much noise apart the usual sounds. waiting for the 14tb hdd to be delivered@@GrantButler
@@h1n1viruz nice!
Interesting video. Thanks for showing us. For me, I don't like the real big drive, because if it ever fails, it'd take forever to reload it. So, I just buy 6TB or 8TB and have two of them where it won't take hours (say a week-long task) to copy back onto it.
@@PoeLemic I totally get that
You didn't have to use the adaptor for SAS to SATA? - Or Kapton tape over the 3rd pin for HDD OFF/ON State? - What kind of setup do you have if you never had to do any of that... ??
@@WarThunderGerald this is my setup: ua-cam.com/video/67_Y8lNko1c/v-deo.htmlsi=yRacZGVORgsOAEni
I bought a couple of 'renewed' drives from Amazon a couple of years ago... just to see what the heck it was. You can't 'renew' a hard drive. Wear is wear. The SMART data was cleared by the people who 'refurbished' it- so I couldn't see how many years it was spinning away in some data center... I got one that had not been cleared.. and it shows like 5 years worth in hours. Well, they lasted a few months. Thankfully I had nothing important on it and what was on it was just test stuff... yea they blank the SMART data so it looks 'new'.
Oh dang. I'll be sure to keep mine backed up. Thanks for sharing your experience
There are some drives which are actually new but sold as "renewed" or "refurbished". I have a EXOS that was new but not sold as new. The reason that they do this is some wholesalers aren't contractually allowed to sell below a certain price if they sell the drive as new but they are allowed to sell "renewed" or "refurbished" drives for the lower price so that's what they do.
@@butmunchass hopefully this is one of those
I have similar thoughts that when a drive goes in for renewal it has been spinning and churning in a data center somewhere and shows up in lots. These are not from granny's PC who is sending emails and porn to her grandkids. Platters are worn, read write heads are worn and perhaps covered in residue and maybe throw in some head damage. I live in an area where it is impossible to send them back to Amzn by Fedex which costs more than the drive. For that reason why take a chance.
@@cayrick I agree but what kind of sick granny sends *emails* to her grandkids?
"WD Purple drives are engineered specifically for surveillance to help withstand the elevated heat fluctuations and equipment vibrations within NVR environments. An average desktop drive is built to run for only short intervals, not the harsh 24/7 always-on environment of a high-definition surveillance system.
Purple is rated for 300,000 load/unload cycles vs Red's 600,000 cycles. Purple edges out Red in noise, 26 dBA vs 28 dBA while seeking."
@h.alfred5320 that's super helpful info! Thank you!
The RPM doesn’t say that much about its speed, when the capacity is a lot different.
Imagine: both have 5 platters, this means that 16TB drive has 16 times the data density of the 1TB drive. So with each rotation, the heads travel over a much larger amount of data, compared to the 1TB drive.
Keep in mind though; The density per ring of data on each platter of course isn’t simply multiplied by 16. It’s probably “only” doubled. Though the decreased distance between each ring of data takes care of a lot of the increments in data density.
That explains the significant speed gain.
Thanks for the info!
1 TB drives haven’t had five platters since CPU’s had 8 bits 🤓 (ok, slight exageration)
Modern 1TB drives have at most two platters
This 16TB has five platters, thus ten heads per ‘cylinder’, which is 100% electronic switching.
@@ernestgalvan9037 I think he was giving an example to help with understanding.
with any single "large capacity" drive or NAS RAID volume, always use less than "full capacity". I tend to use 93-90%, this way in case I overload the drive I still have some overhead that I can allocate in order to get back into the drive... just sayn.....
Great tip! thank you!
Despite the advances in NVME SSDs and SATA disk 2.5p, I still use the old HDD, with plenty of storage for backups and even better than 10 years ago, today we have HDDs of up to 30TB for residential benches announced recently, with certain However, not all domestic users use this type of mass storage, but I believe that the options from 8TB to 18TB are more atypical in residential homes. Where the 1TB to 6TB ones were more atypical, today they are more massive, the trend is to have more HDD options not to be left aside because mass storage for $$
Yeah, you don't need high speed for most storage applications. When I'm editing videos I move the files to a folder on my Ssd then when I'm done I move it all over to the HDD
I've been running recertified HGST drives in a stripe of 6 mirrored pairs (ZFS) on my NAS for several years. No issues, whatsoever. Obviously I don't cycle data quite as much as an enterprise install would, but I have a very large media library on it that sees lots of use daily. I'll probably start swapping in larger drives sometime in the next year. They're not quiet drives, but I don't mind their clicking and whirring - I remember, fondly, the loudness of drives of my youth... and that system lives in a closet in a room that I no longer use as my office, so I don't hear it anymore anyway. lol
I dunno if I'd want to run one on its own, but in a mirrored set, so you're relatively well protected from data loss/failure, yea they're a solid deal imho.
Well said! That's what I want to do next
@@GrantButler I picked up a 3u case with a dozen hot-swap bays years back, dropped a used dual xeon supermicro board into it. I run proxmox on it and share the big zfs pool to the various virtual machines, one of which is turnkey linux's fileserver image so it's available as a samba share on the home network. Each pair of drives are mirrored, and the 6 mirrors are striped together. I've replaced all the drives, with larger drives once already, just have to do one side of each pair at a time, resilvering the other - then can expand to the full size of the larger disks. not too difficult. something like a radi 5 or 6 configuration would yield way more space, but I do like the peace of mind of a full mirror rather than having to rebuild from parity, which would take days on a large pool. lol
Surveillance drives have a high write endurance and slow read performance. They are optimized to be written many times over but the speed of watching a video is not as important because how often are you viewing recoded video vs how often are you writing to the drive.
Good to know! Thanks!
Very helpful video!
Thanks!
4:22 That's actually GiB in Windows, but it incorrectly displays as GB. GibiBytes are worth a bit more than GigaBytes, be sure that the drive is actually 16.000GB.
Thanks
@@GrantButler You're welcome mate!
Drive manufacturers inflate drive capacities using the decimal system, while Windows accurately reports the usable space based on the binary system. 14.9tb is the result of the lie.
@@keilveil9153 The only lie is Microsoft who displays "GB" while actually using GiB. It's the only OS that incorrectly report storage values, Mac OS and Linux display the correct unit. However if you right click and select "Properties" on your disk, you'll be able to see the disk size in bytes, showing accurate values.
Nice brief video. Recently, i was planning to buy a refubished amazon Ultrastar 12 tb but I got a new 14 tb good offer. In specs, the Ultrastar works like the WD Black, which one is over priced.
Is your refubished HDD still working? I ask you because those ones are 3 warranty months.
Nice video, something you could do is un explain the diference among hdd colors, the correct use of each one.
Do you think refubished hard driver are better just for backup or they can york well inside the computer?
@Seujiro so I think I actually mentioned it in the video, but I'm not sure what the differences are in the hard drive colors and their best use cases. I think there's some people in the comments that have answered that question though.
As for this hard drive in the video it is still running great. I use it to store video files that I'm editing.
@@GrantButler Wow, so it was a geat buy, thanks for your answer, i will read the coments
How do you renew a helium filled drive that you can't open? What do they do to renew these drives?
How do they get the Helium in there in the first place?
I have no idea, but they do.@@GrantButler
@@MarkDalbey-cv9sb I would hope it's the same way. However, I haven't found any info on how the renewal is done
If you haven't found any info, then I won't look. I guess the only thing that matters is if you got your money's worth. Just to let you know, I bought 5 2tb used drives for what I would have paid for one new one. I checked and the oldest had less than 1,000 hours on it. Four of them around 100 hours and none of them have any bad sectors. I guess I got my money's worth.@@GrantButler
What is the crystal link site you used to assess your drives? I typed it in google and a few different sites popped up. I'm not sure which one is legit. Thank you
crystalmark.info/en/software/crystaldiskmark/
Gran video amigo, me sirvió de ayuda y compré una unidad seagate entreprise de 4tb renovada como excelente de Amazon por unos $60 y también se encuentra en excelente condicion
Awesome!
Would you recommend a normal new SMR disc or a refurbished one that is CMR both have a 2 year warranty?
Or, for example, for the same price a normal CMR disk of 8tb or a refurbished 12tb for the same price?
That's hard to say, I'm not sure of the performance differences between SMR & CMR and their reliability or issues. Personally I'd probably go for the 12TB for the same price with 2yr warranty.
I can answer you about Surveillance, I had some disks rated like that not NAS and what happens is if a sector of the disk is corrupted it will still try to write data on that block, so you endup with corrupted data, for surveillance it doesn't matter you need to have the information, the NAS rated ones if they detect a bad sector they will not use it
@@pnx1990 thank you! That's good to know!
Where did you get the option for the 3 year warranty for $15. I followed the link and usually it will automatically ask me if I want an optional warranty for other items, but that didn't appear when I added this to the cart.
@@W9HJBill it was offered when I bought it from Amazon. Just like you said, when I added it to my cart
@@GrantButler I just picked up 3 8TB HGST drives off eBay that are supposedly the same type of thing ... eBay certified refurbished. They all had 65000 hours on them, but they came with a 3 year warranty. I had 4 8TB HGST's laying around and wanted to fully populate my new Ubiquity UNAS Pro. But when I saw your video about 16TB drives ... I was thinking about really going nuts. 😁😁
I've had excellent luck with refurbished HGST/Hitachi ultrastar drives. The operating hours would spook anyone but SMART reports an otherwise healthy drive
Nice! I'm glad those have been so good for you!
Hard disk sentinel for more status , sector check
Also Dr revitalize can certify HDD by writing and reading. And also reset smart data like 0 hour usage
Dr revitalize write test will destroy data!!!
Thanks
Did you tried a SMART long test?
How do you do that?
@@GrantButler I am using Linux, "smartctl -t long $DEVICE". Windows: idk
@wd5992 oh, I wonder if that's the same as the smart report that o showed then
Is the 3yr $15 an extended warranty or just data recovery? If it's part of a RAID volume, I don't think that data recovery is possible.
That's an interesting question that I don't have an answer to
From what I read, it looks like it is just a data recovery insurance and nothing about replacing the hard drive.
Hmm, the 10TB model is now 89 bucks, might snatch it next week
Awesome!
The Purples are optimized for faster write speeds.
Ah! Thanks!
Any update on how it's doing 8 months later?
Still working great! It's currently storing all my video files & backups.
i just got a 14tb version of this for $130 its showing it has 4yrs,64days,5hrs(36581 hours) of run time with 11 power on count. may return this because it dont seem like a very good deal for it to last a year or maybe a few years
Wow, that's pretty heavily used.
If you want it for a steam library sure... otherwise I only trust brand new SSDs from trusted names for storing data I deem critical and cannot lose.
Sounds reasonable to me. I just use it to store all my video files.
I bought a "used" one of the exact same hard drive on Amazon and received a fake. It was a 10 year old 2tb drive with a 16tb label stuck on it.
wow! I hope you reported the seller! I've been scammed like that with flash drives, but not with a HDD
$17 per TB is what i paid for brand new WD Red Plus at BessBuy (excuse the typo). Recert / Renewed are not trustworthy EXCEPT you know it's a Datacenter drive = perfect Temperature, no Vibration, no Mishandling by Hobbyists.
When you go over 10TB it's mostly data center drives. Too expensive for enthusiasts
Today I bought 5 x Toshiba 22TB (MG10AFA22TE) for my NAS 😊Ultrastar was on my favorite list, but I have concerns about the loudness.
I'd worry about the longevity of Toshiba. I'm replacing Toshiba HDD's every 12-24 months at my day job.
I got 12 TB for just $109. I was blown away by how cheap it was.
@@aravjain that's an awesome deal!
I have a SanDisk portable ssd i used it before now my PC not recognizing it. I noticed your (H) and (J) drives saying no media i tried everything watch a lot of UA-cam videos and nothing works that can fix the issue. Did you able to your PC to recognize those drives? Thanks
That might be my flashdrives or SD cards plugged into the USB ports
@GrantButler the removable no media is that normal for a portable ssd drive. I saved pictures and videos on the drive now my PC not reading the ssd. Thanks for your response.
@topandrun126 Oh, I see what you're saying. That doesn't sound like what you want. How did you put the pictures & videos on the drive?
Hi
Does the sticker say Refurbished on the hard disk or do the manufacturers hide it?
I found a cheap hard drive in my local store, but the sellers in 3 stores claim that the hard drive is not refurbished, while in one they say it is. And in the picture on the label there are no stickers that it is, can the manufacturers hide it?
Thank you
@milospavic the only part on mine that said refurbished was the box that it came in. The hard drive itself doesn't have any special markings
@@GrantButler If you ask me this is a big scam!
I bought a used seagate and it says "certified repaired HDD"
So whoever bought it knew it wasn't new.
But if they don't put a label on this, it's a big fraud, and it's impossible to prove that it is.
In the store they told me that this same disc as yours was not refurbished, and the same label on Amazon tells me that it is. And now I can't prove in the store that it is.
Is there a program for that?
How strong is the sound and vibration????
vibration isn't noticeable, but the sound can be fairly noticeable. You may even here it from time to time in my videos. I wouldn't say its a problem though.
do this compaction/tests after you fill it up to 75%
You'll have to remind me to do that in a year or two
@@GrantButlerok I will
Is it still spinning?
@@mraljewari9381 haha yeah, it's still working great!
Other than dust them off and ship them in a new box, what more do they actually do to renew these?
I'm not sure
If you're doing this regularly then spinrite 6.1 would be a good investment
What's that?
I worked at an Amazon renew shop. That experience has made me extremely skeptical. My limited understanding of hard drives also leads to me thinking this is a bit of a scam. To me this is like retreading a car tire. Hopefully the drive functions for a long time. I would not trust it with my backups.
Well drives of this size are relatively new, so I'll keep my fingers crossed. Can you tell me more about that "renewal" process?
@@GrantButler we put new SSDs into old toughbook laptops, cleaned the exterior and reinstalled windows. sometimes added ram. Threw away all the old hard drives. For me, wiping the online time is problematic if the mechanism that spins the disk is original.. I’m not really sure what breaks down on a HDD. I can’t imagine a process that adds value in the renewed HDD vs a used one with it’s true mileage.
@@KevinSchaeffer2 that's super interesting. Thanks for the insight
So this is really interesting ... I decided to look who the actual sellers are on amazon ... this drive is sold by techontech which is in sanford florida, and the new 20tb toshiba drive i also mentioned which is a great deal on amazon - guess where that seller's located? yup you got it, sanford florida. this time called server tech repairs, but its exactly the same building.... 111 Central Park Pl #109, Sanford, FL 32771, USA ..
So all these drives on amazon are more or less coming from one small shared warehouse space in florida. Im not convinced that 20tb toshiba is actually new after all ... Also Im not sure I want to trust my data to some repair shop in florida that dismantles old servers and ships them off round the world, sometimes listing them as refurbished, sometimes not.
Grant Butler: Just curious. Do you think external HDs last longer than internal HDs?
I'm pretty sure most are the same except for the packaging.
9 months later and still haven't compared new drives to used ones.
@@HaroT3ch you're right! I've been swamped with other projects. It's coming. I don't know when yet
I've gotten a few before (6). They r all less than 20hrs when I got them.
Sounds like a great deal!
I'm thinking of buying a new laptop, any clue how to make sure you can fit one of these into it?
Laptops aren't big enough for full size HDD's you'll have to find a compact hdd or an SSD. Let me do some research as to what you'll look for
This is a good place to get started. But there are tons of options out there.
amzn.to/3tJAtDn
@@GrantButler I've heard laptops don't fit hard drives in them which are 3.5” and no matter which laptop you look at they never give details relating to the if they're 2.5" or 3.5" in that regard, problem is 2.5" hdd's are too small in storage capacity and external ones break too easy.
@Mr.Goodkat
This one is reliable fits in a laptop & is FAST! (AND EXPENSIVE) amzn.to/47Go14R
@@GrantButler Wow thanks I am not in USA but I might be able to find that on a UK website too, I have great difficulty finding things like that, do you have any advise to help me find very large 2.5" internal hd's, the 8 tb is great but what is the highest 2.5" goes to?
What was the warranty that came with the disk? Extra warranties on individual items are almost always a waste of money and over all your purchases are always a waste-especially if you have adequate savings.
It's a 3 year data recovery insurance. If the drive fails they'll recover the data for free.
Not a bad idea for a "renewed" drive
Before you buy, check the price of a professional data recovery.
The price of a data recovery equals 20 to 50 brand new HDDs
@benyomovod6904 that's much more than the cost of my warranty
Wow, your explanation and operation of products are really detailed. Do you want to review Camcamp’s security cameras?
Never heard of them, but I'd consider it. Have them send an email to me. My contact info is in the video description
Bought a renewed 20tb drive and it arrived DOA not happy but waiting on a replacement
Bumper, at least it's not 3 yrs from now. That's why I got the warranty
After connecting the HDD is the windows start at first attempt????
@@arnabadhikary5485 what?
Sir, I just want to know when you first time connect the HDD is there any problem????
How strong is the vibration and spinning sound????
Exactly, never should hard drive and renewed be in the same sentence.
It’s mechanical and electrical, to be renewed it would have to come off the factory floor, with every component replaced.
Not impossible but impractical and never done as far as I know.
It’s normally a data center hard drive that’s been running close to average failure rate in either years, power cycles, bad sectors,
or model that has been shown to have a high failure rate that they replacing.
Some one purchased for cheaeeeeeeep in bulk, and reset the smart data and listed for RENEWED.
I have purchased the before for home lab, but I won’t any longer. 2 out of six have failed in less than 2 months.
But I have several that are several years old, and run 27/7 in my NAS’s.
When I build a NAS I test run them hard for days, constantly reading and writhing to drives to find any issues before deploying.
Interesting. If you got thr warranty like I did you'd get free data recovery, and a new drive. Totally worth it to me
It’s not mission critical, I have three NAS’s so backup, backup,backup, and sync with cloud for really important stuff.
RAID or a NAS is not a back up, only a backup to a backup in 2 locations is sound data recovery security.
Unless the drive comes with OEM warranty, the drive isnt refurbished it is just used.
No thirdparty is breaking down a HDD to resell.
All "renew" means someone checked the drive visually, ran a SMART to check that it doesnt have BAD Sectors.
As for O hours, it just mean SMART data has been wiped.
So how would you check to see if it's worth it?
@@GrantButler You don't, it's pot luck, so buying from reputable thirdparty "warranty" is a must.
A technician will take 50 minutes to well over an hour plus to open/check/replace/close a HDD parts, add labour/overheads/cost to aquire the drive, it makes more economic sense to do perform a software test, than repackage all that passed to sell, expecting X% to need warranty replacement. Hence "renewed" rather than refurbished from reputable sellers.
How long will it last even new some are DOA, some die in 6 months but pass 24 months many will last 5 yeras and a good percentage 10 years. The biggest killer of HDD that was wun 24/7 for years is actually power down transportation and start/stop of HDD once out of the DC
@@robertlee6338 thanks
Hi everyone - OK - I have a question that I HOPE you can help me with. My system runs an MSI B450 Tomohawk Max II motherboard... Now - when I used to build PC's years ago - each chipset had a maximum addressable hard drive capacity... I have contacted MSI a few times and their answer has been... "Meh - try it - let us know..." I can afford the huge drives - just. I cant waste the money though. Can anyone advise either a reliable source that can quote the maximum capicity the chipset can address, or even have experience using it to anything over 4TB? Per channel? (I have a 2TBNvme, so 2 channels are closed on this chipset, leaving 4 open). Please do not leave "Just upgrade your mobo brah" messages - my build is imbedded and can't be changed - I just need to know how large a drive I can fit on the last four ports? I'm happy to buy anything but I can only do it once - so I have to be careful...[EDIT] - Grant - Dont forget level ram - 7200rpm vs 5400 rpm IS importand - but LV2 ram is more important you can have a slow 7200rpm with 64 or 128mb lv2... and a and a very fast 5400rpm with 256mb... That cache is veryimportant especially for "broken files" by which I mean music, video etc - Moving one film - fine. The same amount of data in 2000 small files - worse... LV2 cahe is very important. If you can find the golden goose of 7200rpm and 256MB - you're close to SSD baby!!!!
From what I can see online, it should be good for 18 exabytes (18 million TB) the limitations were from your operating system not the mother board. If you are using 64bit operating system.
If you're using a 32 bit operating system, (Very out-dated) you're limited to 2 TB.
@@GrantButler Hi Grant - thanks for the reply. No, I'm on a 64bit OS (Win 11 Pro)... I get that the mathematical limits are as you say - honestly I didn't go THAT far!!! thank you!!! but chipsets tend to limit things in different ways - hence 64/128/256/1024GB ram limits on very similar boards. I'm just worried about but a massive drive and my motherboard not being able to see it... Maybe I should stick to 4TB... Just to be clear - its not the math thats my problem - its the chipsets... I've had issues before where a PC wouldn't work purely because the Motherboard could not "see" the drive - it was too large. Thats all.
@damightyshabba439 how long ago was that issue? What was that system running (windows version?) I don't know everything, I was just going off of what I could find.
@@GrantButler In fairness - a long time ago - I used to be an IT manager and I bought a bunch of drives - turned out our servers didn't support that capacity. Then the same thing happened at home. This is Win 2000 - Win 7 Era. (Vista, but we dropped that VERY fast!) I guess my worries may be based on old problems that have been solved? But the B450 is itself old.... The last of my savings going on this - I need it to work!
@@GrantButler Oh - and thanks for the reply - Lot of love and gave you an additional reply to screw with the algo.....
Please let me know if it's worth it to save time for everyone.
Did you watch the video?
@@GrantButler yes
@skillsorange4444 oh great so you know it's not yes or no. It depends only your situation and application
I bought two of those and are loud like a washer machine
@bertussss mine make noise, but not not that much. Either you must have a top of the line super quiet washing machine, or something is wrong.
It may also be that; it is not isolated very well and resonating with your PC &/or whatever it's on to emphasize the sound.
@GrantButler Well not sure why but the two of them are loud, I've tried to connect via usb case and are by far the loudest HDD I ever had.
Will this work with eufy home base 3
@@jeromehenry29 no, is to big physically. You need a 2.5" hdd
You blocked out the serial number when showing the drive but didn't when showing crystal :) Good stuff.
Thanks for the review, might pick up one.
I'm a follow grant!
😅 I didn't even think of that.
Thanks
Seems like they reset the smart data.
Yeah, I wonder if there's a way to test or check to see what was deleted
Two words that should never go together "renewed and Hard drive"
Why not?
As long as it works I’d use it for games and data that gets backed up religiously. No way on something like a NAS or DVR/NVR.
I have a renewed 4Tb HDD still working great after 7 years.
I just bought 2 renewed Seagate Enterprise drives for media using Plex in raid 1 in a 2bay raid incloser i got on sale for $56 connected to a beelink Mini PC Total investment about $650 😂 runs like a champ
I think that is makes more sense to get it refurbished because then you can now have 2 hard drives instead of 1. So now you use RAID and have redundancy
Paid $8.75/TB for an HDD on amazon just now. Can save all the fun vids now ;)
Thanks for video
@@malachiashley528 I'm glad you enjoyed it
It's very easy to wipe the SMART data and do zero work for real renewed drive status, that drives reading arm is making the same noises a drive that at the end of it's life, 30K+ hours power on, would make. I too have bought renewed drives off Amazon, Ebay and way back in the day craigslist,, ANY time a drive makes abnormal noises I return them or refuse the purchase. Another great piece of advice is to look at failure rates of drives on a massive scale which is usually public provided data from large hosting providers, Like AWS, Google, etc. They commonly list the drive model numbers, so you can make a more educated buying decision when looking at used drives.
from what i've found this is one of the more reliable drives.
Speaking of lemons, Seagate is the only drive manufacturer that I do not trust. I've had back luck with Seagate drives, and that's almost brand-new and out-of-box. I had one fail after just day of use -- enough time to move all my shit to it. Then, the second one, I barely used, pulled it out of my system (because it was a 2 TB), then put in a Toshiba 3tb. I forgot about the Seagate 2tb for years, and pulled it out to just keep it on a spare system. And, it was like new, used for maybe few days or few weeks, but no time for a hard drive. Then, I damned put it into that system, started moving files to it, and TRUST ME -- it was acting fine. But, then it started having squek noises and head sounding like it was moving back & forth too much. Started having read errors, then couldnt' write. So, I took it out, and I was past warranty -- but I called & tried to get them to take it back, like nothing hours on it. But, they said it was out-of-warranty, even if no use. Thus, I will never, never, never get another Seagate. Toshiba treated me fine after that 3TB failed (failed few days outside of its warranty), but they / Toshiba sent me a new one.
@@PoeLemic I'm glad you had a good experience with Toshiba
yeah its an enterprise drive so its going be faster than a consumer HDD
Thanks!
@@GrantButler welcome!
Your 2 TB has only 5200rpm that's why it has low read/write
@TheCodr9 yes those two corelate with eachother
I never thought to buy renewed hdds sounds like a bargain and maybe a follow up video in a year or two
Thats my plan!
nice video
Thank you
Or they Wiped the SMART DATA...
They put them in those esd bags for a reason you know.
Yep. It's also not 1991 anymore either. Most esd is inconsequential these days.
@@GrantButler Hmm, pretty sure it's still a thing, perhaps even more so with the miniaturisation of components. Latent damage may catch you out in future but you'd likely just put it down to a regular failure and not something caused by static 6 months earlier.
I have this drive - its super annoying - you cant use it in an enclosure because it requires the special adapter cable.
Also the price isnt worth it ... this one is 24.4$nzd/tb ... and it was released 3 years ago so it could have had a LOT of use on it .......... but since you can get a brand new toshiba MG10 20tb for 33$nzd/tb honestly its not worth the risk considering the years of life youre gonna be losing.
That's some technical info I'm not familiar with. What is "nzd/tb"
new zealand dollars per terabyte. so the ratios will be the same as USD
@@GrantButler
@@GrantButler New Zealand Dollar per Terrabyte