Thanks for the information. I'm an immediate cello player and I'm learning mostly on my own. Most of my bows are carbon fibre, but I have 3 wood bows from the cellos kits I have bought and last night I was looking at a video from Shar Music and the person was playing with both bows and you can hear the difference. I was also told that wood bows are much better, as they are lighter and easier to control. The brand of carbon fibre bows I have bought are by P & H London, because they were recommended to me by a sales person at Remenyi in Toronto. Now after watching this video, I want to get more wood bows. Each of my cellos have 2 bows, 1 wood and 1 carbon fibre.
It arrived! My 1st ever violin (I don't think I've ever picked one up in my life and I'm in my 50s.) arrived today from you guys. Now I'm watching YT videos to get a better understanding about violins in general. While tuning my new violin, I had 2 hairs break, so I got interested in it's care and possibly getting a new back up bow. But I have a question, I hope you can answer. If I get a 2nd bow, depending on which bow I enjoy more... the one that came with my violin or a new addition, I'm guessing one will pretty much just sit in the case. If a bow just sits, how should it be store? Should it be stored with rosin on the hairs or left off? How long will the bow hair last before it needs replacement? I don't want to have a 2nd bow as a back up and when I need it, I don't want all the hairs breaking off... Thanks!
One thing is often even a top of the line CF bow does not have first class hair on it. I play violin and viola and I have a top of the line Coda viola bow (Diamond GX) It is pretty good but not up to my Gilles Nehr, David Samuel, Douglas Ragus. I have a feeling that if I had the Coda Bow rehaired by my bow guy it would be better. On the other hand it is much better than what you would get for the same price in Pernambuco. I know Coda has a new line (Marquise?) I haven't tried that.
Actually, brazil wood comes from the same tree as permambucco or at least they can come from the same tree. The difference is that permambucco comes from the very dense core and the brazil wood comes from the outer layers. Brazil wood isn't quite as strong and it warps more easily but you can get that fixed if needed. If you look at very good bows you can sometimes see that the wood of the bow was cut so that the stick and one half of the tip is permambucco and the other half is brazil wood(oh, forgot that, brazil is also much brighter) there are also other trees, that produce brazil wood (related species etc.) but i think their cores have different properties than permambucco or something. Also, i do not think that the permambucco is the reason why i bows can cost so much. If i'm not mistaken my not really good enough anymore 150€ bow is also made from permambucco. It's just that master bow makers are much better at making bows that are easy to play and produce a good sound. (I think one of the reasons why good permambucco is more expensive than brazil is, that it's harder to work with)
I understand that brazilwood comes from the same pernambuco tree, just not the central denser core. Such wood is brighter in color but can be made darker by UV in sunlight or stained. That wood was used to make dyes. I sure hope they can bring that tree back so that future players can get quality bows.
Hmmm.... never tried their bows. I just went to their site and the bows are a bit pricey for a "non-CODA" bow. So, since they are in the ballpark of price, I'd say that they better work pretty well and produce decent sound. If they have a good return policy, perhaps you could try one out and let us all know!
I've found on Shar (and I think also Amazon) pernumbuco bows for around $100 and my intermediate student Viola came with a bow from the Stravari bow which based on the characteristics (their website says their brazilwood bows are round and pernumbuco ones are octagonal, mine is octagonal) is pernumbuco and worth around $300, both seem quite good (though ironically I prefer the look and sound of the cheaper one) and strangely the instrument cost around $1000-1100 so the bow it came with was theoretically a more valuable bow than would typically be paired with the instrument. Also, to my understanding the sale of pernumbuco is legislated for the preservation of the species, not illegal.
Yes, the wood is not illegal, it's just illegal for people to export the raw wood out of Brazil. You get can "genuine" Pernambuco bows if you buy a bow that was made in Brazil or from a maker who has an older stash of Pernambuco wood.
I think it can be purchased even in raw form, it’s just regulated in quantity harvested over a given period (and you probably need the credentials to prove you have a good reason to purchase.
Kennedy Violins I am not a violin/violin bow maker, and am not really plugged into the channels that I might be able to (much less am able to afford it), I just remember being surprised since usually any organism on the endangered species list it so protected (it is totally illegal to buy something from the killing of endangered species like elephants), but since tree limbs can regrow it seems reasonable they could be sold under heavy restrictions. Edit: I could be mistaken, but this is just the implication of everything I heard.
I've heard some say they want a "heavy bow". Thoughts?? Do you have a source for Pernabuko bows? SOr should we not bother trying to get our hands on one? Any brands to look for?
Well, as a general rule, the octagonal bows are a bit stiffer and often feel heavier. So, which one you prefer is really a matter of personal preference. At the end of the day, if you are advanced enough to have different types of spiccato strokes in your toolbox, then you'll want to play test the bows, since there's such a variety of feel and all of them regardless..
Go with Graphite / carbon fibre There are benefits to technology along with geared pegs ( join the 21st century) There is alot of Double Talk in the Violin industry
I sure hope someone is smart enough to farm some pernambuco trees outside of Brazil. It comes to mind sandalwood trees. Eventually extinct in India and what is left there are laws for capital punishment if they find you with some. Years ago some crazy Australian decided to plant sandalwood and now most all of sandalwood oil comes from Australia.
You'll always get more bang for your buck with a CODA bow but spending the extra amount on a P. bow really depends on your level of playing. The P. bow will give you a little better sound; especially when playing very softly. If you are a beginner to intermediate, definitely get the CF bow. If you are very advanced or pro, go to a violin shop and play on a lot of different bows to get the sound and bounce you want.
Would i be right to expect a minimal amount of give in the beginning of a bow near to the heal? I'm talking of pernanbucco and being that I'm trying to learn some of the more advanced classical repertoire. Some bows are absolutely dead over there and are a job to string cross. I understand it is a technique to play near the heal, but isn't it supposed to have a small amount of give and not too heavy even though it is the heaviest part of the bow, but not TOO heavy?
Well, that's an interesting question but I'd say it's impossible for me to answer because what is considered a lot of "give" or "heavy" are completely relative in many ways. I'd say the only way to answer this question to your satisfaction, is to go to a violin shop that has many bows you can try out. This way, you'll have an idea of what is "average" and then you can decide what you prefer. Bow preference is a VERY personal thing, so assuming your basic technique is solid and your right hand set-up is correct, the best bow will be the one that you like to play with. It's not very common for even the best players to agree on the same bow. That's my 2 cents! :)
so I visited your website and took a look at the bows you offer. In the video you suggest buying USA made (I'm actually looking for either USA or German made) but your descriptions on the website don't say where they are made. For instance, the Guiliani bows you have listed have no country of origin. Do you sell American made, or German made, bows? thanx!
Hello Chey, if you looking for a very premium carbon fiber bow that provides a "wood bow" experience for less, then you'd want to get a CODA, which as far as I know are American-made. However, there are many less expensive but still pretty good CF bows you can get that have some of the manufacturing process done in China. The Giuliani bows are a good example of this. They offer many of the benefits of a CF bow but cost much less than a CODA. In regards to buying a German or American-made wood bow, just spend more than $700 and you'll probably get what you are looking for just about anywhere you want to buy.
@@KennedyViolins thanks Joel. The problem is, as I'm sure you hear often, my son is just learning to play and discovering how difficult it can be. Not sure I want to spend hundreds when I'm also not sure he's going to continue. :/ However, I don't want to get a cheap bow either. I was looking at either an American made Glasser, German made Dorfler, or Steiner. Opinion? Thanks again for your help and suggestions.
@@cheysadventures6561 The brands that you mention all offer bows of varying quality. More than likely, you'll be fine buying any of them and it's just a matter of picking the price point your comfortable with. However, if your son is a "beginner" (has played less than 2 years), then paying more than a couple hundred dollars for a bow may be a massive waste of money. In my opinion, you'd be much better off spending the extra dough on a quality violin and strings than a bow. Being a car guy myself, the best analogy I can offer is spending the extra money on a Ferrari instead of a Camry for your child to learn to drive on because it's "better". Most bowing techniques that maximize the differences between one bow or the other are not learned until 5 or 6 years into practice and that is if they are practicing quite diligently on a daily basis and have a good private instructor. The most important thing to look for in a bow is that it is made "properly". This means that the hair is nice and consistent, is installed not too loose or too tight and the bow is straight. Hope that helps!
I'm american living in Philippine's bought a strad blunt copy $550 Came with $50 bow...from violin store 4 violin's.... Pernambuco Bows they claim 2 have for $160 or cf for $100...cf$100 OK matches ur description but permabuccos cost u said thousands? Noting in this store cost thousand's... Its not like USA ....legit? Or bsing me? What's ur opinions?
A "real" Pernambuco for $100 is pretty suspicious. The bow could be made of some kind of wood that greatly mimics Pernambuco and this is very common; in fact, the bow may be pretty decent. However, "real" Pernumbuco from Brazil? I think you might have better luck buying a lottery ticket.... 🤪
Hello, both the wood and the hair contribute to your overall sound. As long as your wood bow is made properly, it'll probably work just fine for you. Let me know if you have any other questions. :)
As someone who is currently going through this, I have to tell you that the stick matters just as much is the hair. You’re “operating” the stick to have the rosin impregnated hair make the sound, so hence, the weight, balance, and stiffness are all issues, and whatever is best at any skill level is dependent on you, your violin, and the type of music !
Thanks Joel. Btw, I’ve moved on from the beginner brazilwood bow to the Guiliani CF bow and I like the feel of it very much. I’m getting a more consistent sound with better control. It’s light, reasonably stiff, and balanced, and is my winner at this time. I could probably stick with this bow until I’m due for a violin upgrade, and I think the next step will probably be to try some better strings and get experience there first.. Currently using D’Addario Preludes, so just basic steel; they could be a little warmer, but I’ve got a ways to go to be worried about that, imho. Always enjoy your videos.
@@Rojav255same lol I bought a $103 violin with l basics which i regret right away. Even the violin ain't beginner friendly. The strings are too high and the body looks made up of plastic and the bow is so messed up. It looks like they just glued it without even fixing the horse hair. Heck I'm not even sure if it's horse hair. I found a $174 violin which is way better have 2 bows and all necessities for beginners. $200+ is gone in just a week xD
It really depends on the price of the bow. As a general rule, if the bow costs more than $200 or so, then it's probably worth it to re-hair the bow. If the bow is less expensive, then it may not be. It really depends on the quality of the bow. If the bow was relatively inexpensive AND it is NOT straight (warped), then just get another bow. If it was relatively inexpensive $200 or less, AND the bow is straight, then it may be worth it to re-hair it ,if the re-hair job is not too expensive. It's really just a cost-benefit analysis on your part.
There's a music shop here that sells the Dörfler DV 15 pernambuco bow for €185. It looks a real neat stick too. Anything over say €250 would be way off my budget ( and playing ability / experience ). My violin too is a used 1991 German one that I got for $300 when I was in America. It's a nice instrument, real purfling ect. I see violin bows for €1000 and others for €7000, they both look excelent but would there be any noticable differance between those price ranges other than cosmetic ?.. great video by the way.
Thanks Kennedy Violins! Amazing video! Can't wait to try out these tips on my channel mainly for acoustic guitar! Think I am going for a glass fiber one for starters.
Video suggestions: a demo sound comparison of 1) antonio guiliani etude 2) the one thats a step up from that, i forget the name 3) ricard bunell G2 or G1 4) louis carpini G2 or G3 The idea being a sampling of sounds from decent level beginner instruments as well as a slight step up in price. It helps to know the sound that you pay for, and learn what is bright, dark, average, mellow, smooth, etc. Very helpful for new violinists. So perhaps demo the instrument, describe the sound. Maybe even add who it is suited to. Is one more playable? More tricky? Does one handle more advanced techniques better? Is one better to project it’s voice vs being used in a more closed setting? What IS the sound diff between a carpini G3 vs the upgraded G2? Same with the Bunell. That could be it’s own vid. How about a bow demo, like 4 bows on one violin thats a beginner, an intermediate, advanced instrument. Maybe a vid on what capabilities advanced and intermediate instruments have vs cheaper instruments. (I’m still mystified on this. “Better wood” doesn’t translate to anything tangible to me...)
These are all really good ideas. I have some comparison videos already regarding some of the violins but maybe not specifically the ones that you mentioned. I'm not sure I have to look them up. I also did a video on differences of bows, I don't know if you seen that one or not. But you bring up some good points about the adjectives that people use to describe sound. I don't know if other people have really demonstrated this or talked about it very much. Anyway, a lot of good ideas and I will use them and some future videos. Thanks! ☺️
@@KennedyViolins i've watched many, if not all, of the comparison vids. i love them and they are so helpful. plus it sort of gives you an idea of which violins are on-par with each other or if the difference is tonal quality. there don't seem to be vids on the tonal qualities of violins, and a demo of the sound. i looked. some message boards went into it but i had to dig deep. :/ and still they weren't ever going to be as helpful as a video comparison. "here, this is warm, vs this one which is ____" keep up the good work! the vids are great. really happy to have them as a resource. learning a lot!!
@@KennedyViolins A. well educational presentation, You got plenty of striipes teaching this one. Contrary to opinion there are many if us learners who purchase the instrument later who embark on buying a bow not knnowing anything anout buying bows. It's great that you provided so much need to know information since buying a bow for the first time can be that major question, ' hey just exactky what am I doing? many are afraid to ask that question. just as one trying to figure out what tyoe of music book a beginning lecturere should use as. a first book.. This lesson plan surley aids in my ooinion all levels anyone willing to take time to gain the knowledge.. Once a fiddler is always a fiddler, I think it's an art form.
The bow is like the violin, in that the bow is very dependent on the quality of the player more than anything. The biggest differences you'll see in a bow, are only apparent with a higher-skill player. In my opinion, a beginner player should really focus on buying a bow that is made correctly and out of the right materials. Initially, this way of judging a bow will be perfectly fine. Don't spend a lot of money on a bow as a beginner. However, inexpensive bows are often not made well or out of interior materials, so just make sure that if it's wood, it's some kind of Brazilwood bow and it's straight longitudinally. If you cannot see the bow before buying, then just make sure it's a reputable seller or brand. 😉
@@KennedyViolins Thank you! I want to start playing again. I remember when I got a horse hair bow (wooden bow) not expensive after using synthetic for years. It seemed to me the horse hair bow made it possible for me to produce a much better sound but I wasn't sure how much of it was the bow or how much was the hours of playing I was doing back then. Funny question I suppose. Thank you for your answer. 🙂
@@KennedyViolins Thank you! I want to start playing again. I remember when I got a horse hair bow (wooden bow) not expensive after using synthetic for years. It seemed to me the horse hair bow made it possible for me to produce a much better sound but I wasn't sure how much of it was the bow or how much was the hours of playing I was doing back then. Funny question I suppose. Thank you for your answer. 🙂
IPE can be great if it's high quality and was dried properly etc. Probably a lot of bows are IPE and Pernambuco and people have no idea. Happy practicing! 👍👍
Also on fiddlershop they have a Pernambuco bow for $200. Do you think it’s a bad idea for a mostly beginner to invest in something like this though? I have two very cheap CF bows for now full-size and 3/4.
As a general rule, the differences between good bows and great bows are very small but very important for a highly skilled player. In my opinion, you should never spend a lot of money on a bow as a beginner because it would be like buying caviar for your cat. They really won't be able to tell the difference between that and a cheap can of tuna!
Are there 7/8 size bows out there? I am playing on a full size but it’s basically impossible to reach the tip of a full size bow. I am a beginner though so I have much to learn. But I feel so much better with my 3/4 bow from childhood.
A lot of playing to the tip of the bow requires "learned flexibility". This is harder for some people to gain because of age and shorter limbs. If you are older than 25, it'll be harder and if you have shorter limbs, it may not be possible to play to the tip of the bow very easily. I suggest spending a lot of time doing long bow exercices to build your flexibility and see how much progress you can make in a month or so of consistent practice. Hope this helps!
Hey there - 2 questions. :) What levels or qualities of wood bows do you sell? Do you have upgraded ones at a certain pricepoint? (If it comes with violin). Like is the $60 one what comes with the Ricard Bunell G1 and (G2)? Or even the Louis Carpini G2 (or G3)? Thats a price of around $400 vs $600... maybe upgraded bows only come in at say $1000 but i have no idea. Also, how does the sound change between wood bows of $60 vs idk, $100, $200, $300....and up? Is it resonance? Character? (Like projection, or bright/dark)? I’m aiming for a dark sound, perhaps mellow. Not so soprano and punchy on high notes. Wasn’t sure if bow could assist in that. (I’m aware that strings can) Thank you, as always. Fantastic content! I’m so glad Alberto mentioned that these vids are here on youtube!🌟👌🎶
To answer some of your questions, yes, we do offer bow upgrades for all of our violin outfits. Generally, if you purchase a less expensive violin outfit, the bow upgrades offered will be some of the less expensive bows. For example, if you purchase a $300 violin outfit, a reasonable bow upgrade might be a carbon fiber bow or a more expensive wood bow that is no more than a couple hundred dollars more. If you purchase a more expensive violin, then it might be more normal or reasonable to expect that a person might want to spend an additional 2 or $300 for a premium wood bow or a Coda carbon fiber bow. As a general rule, the more money you spend on a bow, the easier it'll be to play with and the sound will be warmer. However, I'd say generally speaking, the most common benefit to spending more on a bow, we'll be that it'll make playing the violin easier. I hope this helps!
@@KennedyViolins yes it does, thank you! i'm going to do an in-home-trial and do one of the upgraded bows as well. it helps to know the nicer bows make playing easier and offer a warmer sound. on the website, the descriptions don't really help say the actual difference between the bows, just that it is higher quality wood. it would be nice perhaps to include some verbiage like you did here, saying what it is capable of vs another bow. it was hard as a beginner to really know WHY to spend more for one bow vs another. what the perks to each one is. thanks for all the responses!! : )
I am looking at a German bow . Pernambuco. The only marking visible is three stars ***. The other markings are rubbed off from use since it is used and kinda old . It needs work on the hair tighening mechanism . They are asking 1500 But I really like how it sounds . Any thoughts ?
Since bows are so personal to your technique and likes/dislikes, you really just have to try it out and make sure there is the proper amount of rosin and hair on it. Since it's an older bow, the most important thing to check first is to make sure the stick is straight and not warped from side to side. Close one eye and sight down the length. If it's crooked, then that's the first sign that you'll want to keep shopping! If the bow has good rosin, good hair, not warped and you like how it sounds/bounces, then $1,500 could be a good price. 👍
Anyone got an opinion on the Chinese carbon fibre vingobows for cello? They look better than the other Chinese bows available on eBay that's for sure. Also what if the carbon fibre bow is unbranded but is made in the UK, Europe or USA would you trust it more then?
@@KennedyViolins thank you for the information.🙏🏾 I've decided that I will invest in a Prodigy Coda Bow after some research. It's 2x as much as I'd originally budgeted for, but based on the reviews (including your helpful one, although I would argue that under a $1000 for a bow for a majority of pple is really not 'cheap' but then playing a string instrument, esp the cello, is an expensive hobby I guess...*sigh*) and the brand's truly excellent reputation, I consider it a worthwhile longterm investment. Even if I'm just an intermediate-advanced student atm struggling to practice consistently... (hoping it will also help encourage me to practice more and help me to improve bow technique, as well as help when finally join an amateur orchestra again, fingers crossed). This is especially as my cello is a really good German 1991 Karl Hofner cello and deserves a good bow to go with it. :) Do you have any advice btw on buying the right cello roisin. I was thinking the Melos which has great reviews or the Kaplan. The latter fir the practical reason thatI'm clumsy and it comes in a convenient flip case (I've dropped my previous expensive Andrea Solo roisin quite a few times and it's now missing big chunks as a result) but not sure about 'light' or 'dark' options. Also looking to replace strings and case for cellos (mine's an awkward 7/8 and came with a terrible cheap soft case which offers no protection and has already resulted in some minor damage to the body)? For strings have bought a Larsen medium for my 'a' string so far based on reviews/reputation, but no idea if that's the right tension for my cello. Guess I can only find out! I will also check out your other videos. Thanks for your help and sorry long message!😊
@@priscillaeyles3301 Hi Priscilla, It sounds like you've done a good job of making sure you have the best tools to learn with, so I doubt there will be much of anything holding you back besides making practice the habit you want it to be. As far as rosins go, it really is a matter of personal choice. There are some terrible rosins (usually light and very inexpensive). However, as long as you avoid the obviously terrible rosins, it's mostly a matter of using a rosin type consistently and getting used to it. Once you get used to it, chances are, you'll probably prefer it over any other rosins. This is how it usually goes with the majority of players, whether they are aware of this or not. The same can be said for most strings. Probably the best thing to do would be to purchase a decent level light and a decent level dark rosin and try them out for a week at a time. More than likely, it will be very obvious to you which one you prefer after a couple weeks. The thing to remember is that different strings and types of hair on your bow will all have an effect on how the rosin reacts to your playing. There are a million variables. To some extent, you have to "pick a pony" and stay with it for a while, and then whatever decisions you make down the road will be much more valuable. Some people are constantly trying different strings, rosin, etc and they are never satisfied. The fact is, you have to play A LOT with a particular set-up to get "good" at it, then all of your decisions from there will be much easier. In regards to a cello case, you usually get what you pay for. The most important thing as far as sizing, is you've got to make sure that the top of the scroll does NOT contact the top of the case. This is extremely important. If the top of the case touches the top of your scroll, then any bump on the top of the hard case could break the neck or scroll on your cello. I've seen it a million times. The most important thing is the fit of the cello in the case. Hope this helps!
How the market has changed! Sixty years ago, as a student, I bought a new Pernambuco bow for $17.50! Used it for decades.
Yikes! Can't even get the bows now.
better times...
Thanks for the information. I'm an immediate cello player and I'm learning mostly on my own. Most of my bows are carbon fibre, but I have 3 wood bows from the cellos kits I have bought and last night I was looking at a video from Shar Music and the person was playing with both bows and you can hear the difference. I was also told that wood bows are much better, as they are lighter and easier to control. The brand of carbon fibre bows I have bought are by P & H London, because they were recommended to me by a sales person at Remenyi in Toronto. Now after watching this video, I want to get more wood bows. Each of my cellos have 2 bows, 1 wood and 1 carbon fibre.
So many bows, so few hands! 🤪
It arrived! My 1st ever violin (I don't think I've ever picked one up in my life and I'm in my 50s.) arrived today from you guys. Now I'm watching YT videos to get a better understanding about violins in general.
While tuning my new violin, I had 2 hairs break, so I got interested in it's care and possibly getting a new back up bow. But I have a question, I hope you can answer.
If I get a 2nd bow, depending on which bow I enjoy more... the one that came with my violin or a new addition, I'm guessing one will pretty much just sit in the case. If a bow just sits, how should it be store? Should it be stored with rosin on the hairs or left off? How long will the bow hair last before it needs replacement? I don't want to have a 2nd bow as a back up and when I need it, I don't want all the hairs breaking off...
Thanks!
Fiberglass Bows have improved over the years, Synthetic Bow Hair has also gotten updates
Iam loveing my bow that I got from you guys and thank you it Carbon fiber ,
One thing is often even a top of the line CF bow does not have first class hair on it. I play violin and viola and I have a top of the line Coda viola bow (Diamond GX) It is pretty good but not up to my Gilles Nehr, David Samuel, Douglas Ragus. I have a feeling that if I had the Coda Bow rehaired by my bow guy it would be better. On the other hand it is much better than what you would get for the same price in Pernambuco. I know Coda has a new line (Marquise?) I haven't tried that.
Dude gets major sarge stripes
from me, if he sold masks I would buy them too!!!
Thank you for this super informative video.
Have you heard of the Codbow Aspire? Is it a discontinued version of the Codabow Prodigy? Are they similar? Which is better?
My favorite bow is a W.E. Hill made in the 1800's but I also have a cheap carbon bow from Shar that's actually not bad.
Actually, brazil wood comes from the same tree as permambucco or at least they can come from the same tree. The difference is that permambucco comes from the very dense core and the brazil wood comes from the outer layers. Brazil wood isn't quite as strong and it warps more easily but you can get that fixed if needed. If you look at very good bows you can sometimes see that the wood of the bow was cut so that the stick and one half of the tip is permambucco and the other half is brazil wood(oh, forgot that, brazil is also much brighter) there are also other trees, that produce brazil wood (related species etc.) but i think their cores have different properties than permambucco or something. Also, i do not think that the permambucco is the reason why i bows can cost so much. If i'm not mistaken my not really good enough anymore 150€ bow is also made from permambucco. It's just that master bow makers are much better at making bows that are easy to play and produce a good sound. (I think one of the reasons why good permambucco is more expensive than brazil is, that it's harder to work with)
More info is always good. Thanks!
I understand that brazilwood comes from the same pernambuco tree, just not the central denser core. Such wood is brighter in color but can be made darker by UV in sunlight or stained. That wood was used to make dyes. I sure hope they can bring that tree back so that future players can get quality bows.
I bought several bows from the Fiddlershop. They are 3 star bows that cost $599. Did I get a good deal?
@@annettenelson5321 If you like them, sure. If you don't.......
Want to find out if Paesold Brazilwood #108 really made of Brazilwood? Thanks in advance for anyone who knows the answer
Have you tried the TPG Sharp bows? Any hints on where they fit on the quality scale?
Hmmm.... never tried their bows. I just went to their site and the bows are a bit pricey for a "non-CODA" bow. So, since they are in the ballpark of price, I'd say that they better work pretty well and produce decent sound. If they have a good return policy, perhaps you could try one out and let us all know!
I've found on Shar (and I think also Amazon) pernumbuco bows for around $100 and my intermediate student Viola came with a bow from the Stravari bow which based on the characteristics (their website says their brazilwood bows are round and pernumbuco ones are octagonal, mine is octagonal) is pernumbuco and worth around $300, both seem quite good (though ironically I prefer the look and sound of the cheaper one) and strangely the instrument cost around $1000-1100 so the bow it came with was theoretically a more valuable bow than would typically be paired with the instrument.
Also, to my understanding the sale of pernumbuco is legislated for the preservation of the species, not illegal.
Yes, the wood is not illegal, it's just illegal for people to export the raw wood out of Brazil. You get can "genuine" Pernambuco bows if you buy a bow that was made in Brazil or from a maker who has an older stash of Pernambuco wood.
I think it can be purchased even in raw form, it’s just regulated in quantity harvested over a given period (and you probably need the credentials to prove you have a good reason to purchase.
@@t.j.armendariz354 You should get some for us then. I'll take it! 🤪
Kennedy Violins I am not a violin/violin bow maker, and am not really plugged into the channels that I might be able to (much less am able to afford it), I just remember being surprised since usually any organism on the endangered species list it so protected (it is totally illegal to buy something from the killing of endangered species like elephants), but since tree limbs can regrow it seems reasonable they could be sold under heavy restrictions.
Edit: I could be mistaken, but this is just the implication of everything I heard.
T.J. Armendariz l
I've heard some say they want a "heavy bow". Thoughts?? Do you have a source for Pernabuko bows? SOr should we not bother trying to get our hands on one? Any brands to look for?
How about bow shape? Round vs. octagonal?
Well, as a general rule, the octagonal bows are a bit stiffer and often feel heavier. So, which one you prefer is really a matter of personal preference. At the end of the day, if you are advanced enough to have different types of spiccato strokes in your toolbox, then you'll want to play test the bows, since there's such a variety of feel and all of them regardless..
Go with Graphite / carbon fibre
There are benefits to technology along with geared pegs ( join the 21st century)
There is alot of Double Talk in the Violin industry
I sure hope someone is smart enough to farm some pernambuco trees outside of Brazil. It comes to mind sandalwood trees. Eventually extinct in India and what is left there are laws for capital punishment if they find you with some. Years ago some crazy Australian decided to plant sandalwood and now most all of sandalwood oil comes from Australia.
Let's say you had a 1,500 budget for a bow. Would you get more bang for your buck with a relatively mid-end permanbuco bow or a higher end cf bow?
You'll always get more bang for your buck with a CODA bow but spending the extra amount on a P. bow really depends on your level of playing. The P. bow will give you a little better sound; especially when playing very softly. If you are a beginner to intermediate, definitely get the CF bow. If you are very advanced or pro, go to a violin shop and play on a lot of different bows to get the sound and bounce you want.
Would i be right to expect a minimal amount of give in the beginning of a bow near to the heal? I'm talking of pernanbucco and being that I'm trying to learn some of the more advanced classical repertoire.
Some bows are absolutely dead over there and are a job to string cross. I understand it is a technique to play near the heal, but isn't it supposed to have a small amount of give and not too heavy even though it is the heaviest part of the bow, but not TOO heavy?
Well, that's an interesting question but I'd say it's impossible for me to answer because what is considered a lot of "give" or "heavy" are completely relative in many ways. I'd say the only way to answer this question to your satisfaction, is to go to a violin shop that has many bows you can try out. This way, you'll have an idea of what is "average" and then you can decide what you prefer. Bow preference is a VERY personal thing, so assuming your basic technique is solid and your right hand set-up is correct, the best bow will be the one that you like to play with. It's not very common for even the best players to agree on the same bow. That's my 2 cents! :)
@@KennedyViolins thanks. That makes sense.
so I visited your website and took a look at the bows you offer. In the video you suggest buying USA made (I'm actually looking for either USA or German made) but your descriptions on the website don't say where they are made. For instance, the Guiliani bows you have listed have no country of origin. Do you sell American made, or German made, bows? thanx!
Hello Chey, if you looking for a very premium carbon fiber bow that provides a "wood bow" experience for less, then you'd want to get a CODA, which as far as I know are American-made. However, there are many less expensive but still pretty good CF bows you can get that have some of the manufacturing process done in China. The Giuliani bows are a good example of this. They offer many of the benefits of a CF bow but cost much less than a CODA. In regards to buying a German or American-made wood bow, just spend more than $700 and you'll probably get what you are looking for just about anywhere you want to buy.
@@KennedyViolins thanks Joel. The problem is, as I'm sure you hear often, my son is just learning to play and discovering how difficult it can be. Not sure I want to spend hundreds when I'm also not sure he's going to continue. :/ However, I don't want to get a cheap bow either. I was looking at either an American made Glasser, German made Dorfler, or Steiner. Opinion? Thanks again for your help and suggestions.
@@cheysadventures6561 The brands that you mention all offer bows of varying quality. More than likely, you'll be fine buying any of them and it's just a matter of picking the price point your comfortable with. However, if your son is a "beginner" (has played less than 2 years), then paying more than a couple hundred dollars for a bow may be a massive waste of money. In my opinion, you'd be much better off spending the extra dough on a quality violin and strings than a bow. Being a car guy myself, the best analogy I can offer is spending the extra money on a Ferrari instead of a Camry for your child to learn to drive on because it's "better". Most bowing techniques that maximize the differences between one bow or the other are not learned until 5 or 6 years into practice and that is if they are practicing quite diligently on a daily basis and have a good private instructor. The most important thing to look for in a bow is that it is made "properly". This means that the hair is nice and consistent, is installed not too loose or too tight and the bow is straight. Hope that helps!
@@KennedyViolins thanks!
@@cheysadventures6561 You're welcome!
I won’t play anything other than Carbon Fibre and my tutor Conservatory train uses one too
I'm american living in Philippine's bought a strad blunt copy $550
Came with $50 bow...from violin store 4 violin's.... Pernambuco
Bows they claim 2 have for $160 or cf for $100...cf$100 OK matches ur description but permabuccos cost u said thousands?
Noting in this store cost thousand's... Its not like USA ....legit?
Or bsing me? What's ur opinions?
A "real" Pernambuco for $100 is pretty suspicious. The bow could be made of some kind of wood that greatly mimics Pernambuco and this is very common; in fact, the bow may be pretty decent. However, "real" Pernumbuco from Brazil? I think you might have better luck buying a lottery ticket.... 🤪
Bruh the way he completely destroyed the fibreglass bows with a straight face 😂
I'm a beginner and it is the hair that should be making the sound not the wood so I will choose the cheapest wood bow with real horse hair.
Hello, both the wood and the hair contribute to your overall sound. As long as your wood bow is made properly, it'll probably work just fine for you. Let me know if you have any other questions. :)
As someone who is currently going through this, I have to tell you that the stick matters just as much is the hair. You’re “operating” the stick to have the rosin impregnated hair make the sound, so hence, the weight, balance, and stiffness are all issues, and whatever is best at any skill level is dependent on you, your violin, and the type of music !
Thanks Joel. Btw, I’ve moved on from the beginner brazilwood bow to the Guiliani CF bow and I like the feel of it very much. I’m getting a more consistent sound with better control. It’s light, reasonably stiff, and balanced, and is my winner at this time. I could probably stick with this bow until I’m due for a violin upgrade, and I think the next step will probably be to try some better strings and get experience there first.. Currently using D’Addario Preludes, so just basic steel; they could be a little warmer, but I’ve got a ways to go to be worried about that, imho.
Always enjoy your videos.
Cool! Sounds like you're on the right track :-). Thanks for the comment and thanks for watching!
Thank you!
As a Brazilian and a beginner, I had no idea that Brazilian bows is so desired. Thank you very much .
HEY, when you can only afford a $10 Amazon bow, it's not nice to be looked down on.
I don't think it's a "looking down on."
If you can't afford one then save up for it. That's what I do
Lay your. I put aside money for later to upgrade. When I can play better I'll get better stuff.
I bought the violin for 35$ eoth the bow so I don’t really know what you talking about lol for me 10$ for a bow is luxurious 😂😂😂
@@Rojav255same lol I bought a $103 violin with l basics which i regret right away. Even the violin ain't beginner friendly. The strings are too high and the body looks made up of plastic and the bow is so messed up. It looks like they just glued it without even fixing the horse hair. Heck I'm not even sure if it's horse hair. I found a $174 violin which is way better have 2 bows and all necessities for beginners. $200+ is gone in just a week xD
You,my friend are very thorough. I'm a beginner player. Very helpful.
Well, I certainly try. Thanks for letting me know! 👍
Thank you for a very succinct and informative summary. No rubbish - just common sense!
Is it better to replace hair on a bow or buy another bow? Like worn out tires in a vehicle.
It really depends on the price of the bow. As a general rule, if the bow costs more than $200 or so, then it's probably worth it to re-hair the bow. If the bow is less expensive, then it may not be. It really depends on the quality of the bow. If the bow was relatively inexpensive AND it is NOT straight (warped), then just get another bow. If it was relatively inexpensive $200 or less, AND the bow is straight, then it may be worth it to re-hair it ,if the re-hair job is not too expensive. It's really just a cost-benefit analysis on your part.
There's a music shop here that sells the Dörfler DV 15 pernambuco bow for €185. It looks a real neat stick too. Anything over say €250 would be way off my budget ( and playing ability / experience ). My violin too is a used 1991 German one that I got for $300 when I was in America. It's a nice instrument, real purfling ect. I see violin bows for €1000 and others for €7000, they both look excelent but would there be any noticable differance between those price ranges other than cosmetic ?.. great video by the way.
Thanks Kennedy Violins! Amazing video! Can't wait to try out these tips on my channel mainly for acoustic guitar! Think I am going for a glass fiber one for starters.
I got a bow from overseas it was the worst I have see it was warped badly you have to be blind not to see it
Video suggestions: a demo sound comparison of 1) antonio guiliani etude 2) the one thats a step up from that, i forget the name 3) ricard bunell G2 or G1 4) louis carpini G2 or G3
The idea being a sampling of sounds from decent level beginner instruments as well as a slight step up in price. It helps to know the sound that you pay for, and learn what is bright, dark, average, mellow, smooth, etc. Very helpful for new violinists. So perhaps demo the instrument, describe the sound. Maybe even add who it is suited to. Is one more playable? More tricky? Does one handle more advanced techniques better? Is one better to project it’s voice vs being used in a more closed setting?
What IS the sound diff between a carpini G3 vs the upgraded G2? Same with the Bunell. That could be it’s own vid.
How about a bow demo, like 4 bows on one violin thats a beginner, an intermediate, advanced instrument.
Maybe a vid on what capabilities advanced and intermediate instruments have vs cheaper instruments. (I’m still mystified on this. “Better wood” doesn’t translate to anything tangible to me...)
These are all really good ideas. I have some comparison videos already regarding some of the violins but maybe not specifically the ones that you mentioned. I'm not sure I have to look them up. I also did a video on differences of bows, I don't know if you seen that one or not. But you bring up some good points about the adjectives that people use to describe sound. I don't know if other people have really demonstrated this or talked about it very much. Anyway, a lot of good ideas and I will use them and some future videos. Thanks! ☺️
@@KennedyViolins i've watched many, if not all, of the comparison vids. i love them and they are so helpful. plus it sort of gives you an idea of which violins are on-par with each other or if the difference is tonal quality.
there don't seem to be vids on the tonal qualities of violins, and a demo of the sound. i looked. some message boards went into it but i had to dig deep. :/ and still they weren't ever going to be as helpful as a video comparison. "here, this is warm, vs this one which is ____"
keep up the good work! the vids are great. really happy to have them as a resource. learning a lot!!
lurklingX :
Thanks for the enlightenment, happy fiddling
Happy fiddling back! 👍
@@KennedyViolins
A. well educational presentation,
You got plenty of striipes teaching this one. Contrary to opinion there are many if us learners who purchase the instrument later who embark on buying a bow not knnowing anything anout buying bows. It's great that you provided so much need to know information since buying a bow for the first time can be that major question, ' hey just exactky what am I doing? many are afraid to ask that question. just as one trying to figure out what tyoe of music book a beginning lecturere should use as. a first book.. This lesson plan surley aids in my ooinion all levels anyone willing to take time to gain the knowledge.. Once a fiddler is always a fiddler, I think it's an art form.
Very honest review.
I'm as amature as it gets but I have been playing for years. Have any of the players on here had their playing improved noticably with a better bow?
The bow is like the violin, in that the bow is very dependent on the quality of the player more than anything. The biggest differences you'll see in a bow, are only apparent with a higher-skill player. In my opinion, a beginner player should really focus on buying a bow that is made correctly and out of the right materials. Initially, this way of judging a bow will be perfectly fine. Don't spend a lot of money on a bow as a beginner. However, inexpensive bows are often not made well or out of interior materials, so just make sure that if it's wood, it's some kind of Brazilwood bow and it's straight longitudinally. If you cannot see the bow before buying, then just make sure it's a reputable seller or brand. 😉
@@KennedyViolins Thank you! I want to start playing again. I remember when I got a horse hair bow (wooden bow) not expensive after using synthetic for years. It seemed to me the horse hair bow made it possible for me to produce a much better sound but I wasn't sure how much of it was the bow or how much was the hours of playing I was doing back then. Funny question I suppose. Thank you for your answer. 🙂
@@KennedyViolins Thank you! I want to start playing again. I remember when I got a horse hair bow (wooden bow) not expensive after using synthetic for years. It seemed to me the horse hair bow made it possible for me to produce a much better sound but I wasn't sure how much of it was the bow or how much was the hours of playing I was doing back then. Funny question I suppose. Thank you for your answer. 🙂
Enjoyed this video, clear information. I like your personable style. Currently mostly playing on a Coda Classic, it’s old but really my preferred bow
Cool, thanks for the nice words!
Hi thanks. For your information. I have a ipe bow and it’s amazing is ipe good for a bow
IPE can be great if it's high quality and was dried properly etc. Probably a lot of bows are IPE and Pernambuco and people have no idea. Happy practicing! 👍👍
Thanks for your time.
Thanks, informative
Glad to help!
Great video. Straight to the point and very clear. Thanks a lot! Greetings from a cellist.
I'm glad you liked it and thanks for the comment! 👍
@@KennedyViolins Thanks to you man! Keep it up with the good content
I bought pernambuco wood for my violin now project
Also on fiddlershop they have a Pernambuco bow for $200. Do you think it’s a bad idea for a mostly beginner to invest in something like this though? I have two very cheap CF bows for now full-size and 3/4.
As a general rule, the differences between good bows and great bows are very small but very important for a highly skilled player. In my opinion, you should never spend a lot of money on a bow as a beginner because it would be like buying caviar for your cat. They really won't be able to tell the difference between that and a cheap can of tuna!
Are there 7/8 size bows out there? I am playing on a full size but it’s basically impossible to reach the tip of a full size bow. I am a beginner though so I have much to learn. But I feel so much better with my 3/4 bow from childhood.
A lot of playing to the tip of the bow requires "learned flexibility". This is harder for some people to gain because of age and shorter limbs. If you are older than 25, it'll be harder and if you have shorter limbs, it may not be possible to play to the tip of the bow very easily. I suggest spending a lot of time doing long bow exercices to build your flexibility and see how much progress you can make in a month or so of consistent practice. Hope this helps!
Hey there - 2 questions. :) What levels or qualities of wood bows do you sell? Do you have upgraded ones at a certain pricepoint? (If it comes with violin). Like is the $60 one what comes with the Ricard Bunell G1 and (G2)? Or even the Louis Carpini G2 (or G3)? Thats a price of around $400 vs $600... maybe upgraded bows only come in at say $1000 but i have no idea.
Also, how does the sound change between wood bows of $60 vs idk, $100, $200, $300....and up? Is it resonance? Character? (Like projection, or bright/dark)?
I’m aiming for a dark sound, perhaps mellow. Not so soprano and punchy on high notes. Wasn’t sure if bow could assist in that. (I’m aware that strings can)
Thank you, as always. Fantastic content! I’m so glad Alberto mentioned that these vids are here on youtube!🌟👌🎶
To answer some of your questions, yes, we do offer bow upgrades for all of our violin outfits. Generally, if you purchase a less expensive violin outfit, the bow upgrades offered will be some of the less expensive bows. For example, if you purchase a $300 violin outfit, a reasonable bow upgrade might be a carbon fiber bow or a more expensive wood bow that is no more than a couple hundred dollars more. If you purchase a more expensive violin, then it might be more normal or reasonable to expect that a person might want to spend an additional 2 or $300 for a premium wood bow or a Coda carbon fiber bow. As a general rule, the more money you spend on a bow, the easier it'll be to play with and the sound will be warmer. However, I'd say generally speaking, the most common benefit to spending more on a bow, we'll be that it'll make playing the violin easier. I hope this helps!
@@KennedyViolins yes it does, thank you! i'm going to do an in-home-trial and do one of the upgraded bows as well. it helps to know the nicer bows make playing easier and offer a warmer sound. on the website, the descriptions don't really help say the actual difference between the bows, just that it is higher quality wood. it would be nice perhaps to include some verbiage like you did here, saying what it is capable of vs another bow. it was hard as a beginner to really know WHY to spend more for one bow vs another. what the perks to each one is.
thanks for all the responses!! : )
What is the minimum amount of hairs for the "perfect" bow?
As few as possible but not less...
I am looking at a German bow . Pernambuco. The only marking visible is three stars ***. The other markings are rubbed off from use since it is used and kinda old . It needs work on the hair tighening mechanism . They are asking 1500 But I really like how it sounds . Any thoughts ?
Since bows are so personal to your technique and likes/dislikes, you really just have to try it out and make sure there is the proper amount of rosin and hair on it. Since it's an older bow, the most important thing to check first is to make sure the stick is straight and not warped from side to side. Close one eye and sight down the length. If it's crooked, then that's the first sign that you'll want to keep shopping! If the bow has good rosin, good hair, not warped and you like how it sounds/bounces, then $1,500 could be a good price. 👍
@@KennedyViolins Thank you 😊 very much.
@@KennedyViolins I fell in love with the 3 star German 🌟
Anyone got an opinion on the Chinese carbon fibre vingobows for cello? They look better than the other Chinese bows available on eBay that's for sure.
Also what if the carbon fibre bow is unbranded but is made in the UK, Europe or USA would you trust it more then?
If it's "unbranded" and less than $150, it's definitely Chinese.
@@KennedyViolins thank you for the information.🙏🏾
I've decided that I will invest in a Prodigy Coda Bow after some research. It's 2x as much as I'd originally budgeted for, but based on the reviews (including your helpful one, although I would argue that under a $1000 for a bow for a majority of pple is really not 'cheap' but then playing a string instrument, esp the cello, is an expensive hobby I guess...*sigh*) and the brand's truly excellent reputation, I consider it a worthwhile longterm investment.
Even if I'm just an intermediate-advanced student atm struggling to practice consistently... (hoping it will also help encourage me to practice more and help me to improve bow technique, as well as help when finally join an amateur orchestra again, fingers crossed).
This is especially as my cello is a really good German 1991 Karl Hofner cello and deserves a good bow to go with it. :)
Do you have any advice btw on buying the right cello roisin. I was thinking the Melos which has great reviews or the Kaplan. The latter fir the practical reason thatI'm clumsy and it comes in a convenient flip case (I've dropped my previous expensive Andrea Solo roisin quite a few times and it's now missing big chunks as a result) but not sure about 'light' or 'dark' options.
Also looking to replace strings and case for cellos (mine's an awkward 7/8 and came with a terrible cheap soft case which offers no protection and has already resulted in some minor damage to the body)?
For strings have bought a Larsen medium for my 'a' string so far based on reviews/reputation, but no idea if that's the right tension for my cello. Guess I can only find out! I will also check out your other videos.
Thanks for your help and sorry long message!😊
@@priscillaeyles3301 Hi Priscilla, It sounds like you've done a good job of making sure you have the best tools to learn with, so I doubt there will be much of anything holding you back besides making practice the habit you want it to be. As far as rosins go, it really is a matter of personal choice. There are some terrible rosins (usually light and very inexpensive). However, as long as you avoid the obviously terrible rosins, it's mostly a matter of using a rosin type consistently and getting used to it. Once you get used to it, chances are, you'll probably prefer it over any other rosins. This is how it usually goes with the majority of players, whether they are aware of this or not. The same can be said for most strings. Probably the best thing to do would be to purchase a decent level light and a decent level dark rosin and try them out for a week at a time. More than likely, it will be very obvious to you which one you prefer after a couple weeks. The thing to remember is that different strings and types of hair on your bow will all have an effect on how the rosin reacts to your playing. There are a million variables. To some extent, you have to "pick a pony" and stay with it for a while, and then whatever decisions you make down the road will be much more valuable. Some people are constantly trying different strings, rosin, etc and they are never satisfied. The fact is, you have to play A LOT with a particular set-up to get "good" at it, then all of your decisions from there will be much easier. In regards to a cello case, you usually get what you pay for. The most important thing as far as sizing, is you've got to make sure that the top of the scroll does NOT contact the top of the case. This is extremely important. If the top of the case touches the top of your scroll, then any bump on the top of the hard case could break the neck or scroll on your cello. I've seen it a million times. The most important thing is the fit of the cello in the case. Hope this helps!
der-BILL-i-dee
Just over a week ago I bought a pernambuco bow and I haven't even played my violin for 10 months yet It was made in Germany
Cool. If you take care of it, it'll probably be a great bow in the future as you get better and better! 👍
@@KennedyViolins my first bows were made in China. This one was made in Germany by W Dörfler.
Yes, they have some great bows. Keep that one!
I read that you should buy a bow that is worth 1/3 the value of your violin. Is there validation for this?