It would be better to have these two extra hours only for one or two days every week. That would help you to return home or to the yard if you are very close but your driving time is not enough.
Speed up delivery and pick up times and there won't be a need for 13 hours. Time to start fining the crap out of warehouses for excessive delivery and pick up times. Costco would be a good role model for places like Wal-Mart.
I may be new to the industry but it didn't take long at all to identify that this is one of the biggest problems my view is you agreed to the appt time so load/unload your stuff or pay me to sit there this 4 hrs before detention starts just invites abuse at the hands of shippers/recievers
Hey man I live in my truck . I’m all for 13 hour days all day long . I am a young man 24 and can do those easily plus I can do 700+ miles on Canadian hours ! Love it
Why not allow all 50 states in the US to run under Alaskan rules? They are allowed to drive 13 hours within, I believe, a 15-hour tour of Duty and 80 hours in 8 days.
Just found your channel and really appreciate all the information. It's not always the info as it is the delivery method. Your presentation is every bit as good as the information. Thanks
I had a dispatcher exactly like that. Before Cell phones, my wife could call him and ask, "Where is Ben this morning?" He would look at his watch and say, "Well, it's 9:00 am, he just got out of bed and is loading at Cities Service in Blackwell, Oklahoma". He knew his driver's that well!
I think they can just keep the hours of service 11,14,70 limits the same and just remove or reduce the consecutivity requirements of the breaks so you can move when/if you need to and rest when you feel like it. It would also help drivers avoid some of the big city rush hour backups without preventing them from getting to their destination on time or to get to a preferable parking location as well as for situations where a customer doesn't allow overnight parking. Also, Running against the hourglass of the current 14 hour window can cause drivers to do unsafe actions to try to get to where they need to before the arbitrary deadline of sand runs out, especially when they have plenty of time left on their driving and 70 hour clocks that currently goes to waste.
I worked for a small trucking company, and the owner of the company ran loads also. He had done that for years. I called in like I was told by the other owner every day. One day when I called in I was told by the owner that I didn't have to call in anymore ,because he could tell by my driving that I wasn't one of those drivers who had to be babysit. He told me where I was at that time. He told me that myself and 1 other driver was always early to our delivery. He knew when we would be at our delivery and when we would be at our shop every week.
Driving OTR is stressful enough, I damn sure don't want an extra 2hrs behind the wheel, behind an idiot 4-wheeler who has nothing better to do than to drive around texting his friends and putting on make-up while she pines away about how his parents just don't understand her lifestyle.
I feel the Canadian drive time allowed for drivers to get to a truck stop. We have further distances between cities and truck stops. North of Toronto it can get harder to find truck stops and safe parking.
best work schedule for me would be: 12/12: 1 hour breakfast, 1 hour lunch, 1 hour supper, 1 hour off (your own time) to relax or do what ever you want on your time, plus your 8 hours of sleep. Total 12 hours for you (spread out the way you want to take your breaks) vs 12 hours of work: 11 hours driving 1 hour on duty. That would be the best.
I like Alaska HOS 15 driving hours and 20 work hours but i agree the mega carriers in the lower 48 would abuse their drivers. YES we need to improve our rates even here. $5.30 PM is not enough for running the Dalton
Dave, ever since I first heard the idea of adopting the Canadian HOS, my thoughts were exactly as yours are. Now I’m 24 and don’t even have a year in yet, but I know when I need to park my rig and when I can keep driving. I may not be a seasoned vet, but I know I could certainly benefit from the Canadian HOS, and that’s just because I know when I’m too tired and I don’t have a dispatcher that pushes me. You’re exactly right tho, If Joe Swift Driver is feeling tired they would probably tell him to keep driving until he can’t. Which isn’t safe and counteracts what the ELD is trying to accomplish. It’s typically not the driver that is unsafe, it’s the people around or the people pushing the driver. I hope this doesn’t come off as cross, I’m by no means upset by anything. Love your content, and I honestly agree with at least 90% of your opinions and thoughts. Maybe even more!! Lol
Just fyi dave i work for a company called usa truck and so far they have been amazing. The trained me and i have been here 4 years and they preach safety and even pay you layover if you are shut down due to weather. The best part is we have owner ops and lease ops and they promote your channel to them as a way of learning the ropes. Keep up the great work dave.
They actually see the 16 hour duty window, as a 16 hour working window. Lots of the big Canadian companies, are making the turnpike and super B guys build their sets/trailers OFF DUTY! So that's 3 hours working off duty, 13 hours driving, and sometimes an hour of doing some BS on duty. I refuse to move truckload freight in Canada anymore, I do US LTL now.
yeah!!, DOT says a driver can work a maximum of 14 hours with 11 hours of driving. companies say, drivers must work no less than 14 hours with a maximum of 11 hours of driving. I don’t care if you are tired, I don’t care if you didn’t sleep well. funny the fact that drivers are not protected by the laws of 8 hours a day plus ot after 40 hours a week. but we are forced to work 70 hours a week and be regulated by DOT and subject to a shit ton of control. all in benefit of the big companies and screw the drivers.
Dave. great video. Can you do one on different ELD's. My company is using "Just trucking" app. what a pain in the REAR!! while it's nice having the phone app, the bluetooth keeps dropping the signal. then you have to unplug, log out and redo everything. plus a day or two later you get notified of unclaimed driving hours.
I started on the 8 hours break and 10 hours drive rules. Some days I had 20+ hours before I used up my 10 with delivery and reload time included. I don't miss those days!
I use both weekly (go through the US back into southern Ontario then back through to Manitoba) and have to say, driving time is the only thing that should be limited during a 24 hour period. Those 14 and 16 hour windows can kill a day if you get screwed. I understand the point about mega carriers abusing drivers, but that is not a trucking issue, that's a political issue. Mega carriers have the politicians in their pockets, that will have to be eliminated before trucking's woes are solved. I definitely do prefer the US system but would like to see a bigger window to fit the driving time into in a day (I have a good dispatcher, but it's not uncommon from what I hear for drivers to get pushed into doing 8 hour turn arounds every night).
If you can drive 11 hours a day, you should have a 77 hour week, not 70. Apparently, FMCSA is looking into giving you an hour extra if a shipper/reciever won't let you sleep on the property. Yes, it's become such an issue for overnight parking that they are looking for a special exemption for that rule. Apparently they are conducting a test program to bring back 5/5 split. My issue is the 14 hour clock. It takes them 5 hours to load/unload me, and since I cant stay on the property, I cant wait for my 8 split to come up. So I really have 9 hours to work for the day instead of 14. By the time I get to the truck stop, scale, slide the tandems, it might be eight hours to drive. Of course, the mileage rate still sucks. My company gave us all a three cent raise because they were starting guys out at .30 with a 1 cent raise per year. Well rookies are going to other companies that are paying more. Thus the raise. But that was given out of neccessity to recruit more drivers. Not for us. :/
Hi Tom, do you have any links about the fact that FMCSA is looking into giving you an hour extra if a shipper/receiver won't let you sleep on the property? Those delays at shipper/receiver are killing
With paper logs , no one knew what you where doing unless they looked at your logbook. The only way you could be tracked is by truck satellite . Now with EDL , you’re tracked like a prison inmate. Just saying.
What a nightmare this industry is becoming. DEF trucks that wont work in Canadian cold, e logs, autonomous research. Time is running our for the hard workers.
Dave, I agree with you on everything you said. More HOS I don't think will help. It's raise the rates that make the difference in making or braking the driver, aka the truck...but some yahoo will set behind a desk like they have been doing thinking up more restrictions for the driver to follow, even tho they have him/ her now to where they barely can move with out breaking some rule, weather it's Federal, State, Local, or company. It's damn if you do or damn if you dont....
Dave, I agree some of these trucking companys will do anything to try and get a driver to drive longer. I worked for a company that had day cab drivers as well as OTR. One day, the compliance clerk told me that once a week a driver is allowed to drive 13 hours, but only one day a week. I immediately explained to him that that rule does exist for OTR drivers but it is designed for daycab drivers who return to the same domicile location every day. I pulled out my green book and told him what page to read. They grew to hate me because I wouldn't run International Paper loads that were over weight. I explained to them that there may not be a scale house between the supplier and customer, but that Alabama primarily uses portable scales. After 5 months I turned in my truck
Oh yeah, the mega carriers would abuse the system, they already do to a point. One of the former companies I worked for is already under investigation for forcing drivers to falsify there logs, just so they can get there freight moved.
There's a lot of dispatchers that learned, don't push me, I'm running the truck not you. It works both ways, you screw me, I'll go outta my way to screw you. But if you work with me, I'll try and help you out. Give a little, get a little.
Dave you are absolutly correct about EVERYTHING you said here. I strongly beleive that 13 hours is too long a day, and the American 11 hours of driving is more than enough for anyone who drives truck for a living. I only drive truck part time, on weekend runs from Montreal (your favorite place to go trucking to...LOL) to Brampton Ont. We have a drop yard up there, and then we B/T to Milton Ont. to hook up another trailer and head back to Montreal.I have never been able to do it in the 13 hours we leaglly have to drive. I always stopped once i'm out of Toronto in Odessa at the On Route to sleep my 8 hours. At that point of my run i have already logged close to10 hours of driving and im tired..There are guys that will do the whole run and arrive in the Montreal yard with seconds left on their clock, but me, i just can't stomache it. I am no SUPER TRUCKER, and i have nothing to prove.I just want to truck safely and get some deserved sleep and get up fresh and ready to roll again..the 13 hours are just too much.
Well said. It should return to 10 max driving time and 1 hour on the clock prep that an b split in to two 30 minute times with one hour extra for emergency time of driving only then off for 12 hours before driving again.
My last previous carrier, LCT, had paper logs. I could had broken the law by falsefying my logs, but I didn't. It wasn't worth time in prison and losing my license. Now these e-logs I have no problem with. what I don't like is this mandatory 30min break. I believe you should take your break anytime and more than 30 minutes.
At the end that sounds just like my dispatcher. No idea how he keeps track of what he does. Also is nice having a dispatcher who drove for 20 plus years and has been to most places he sends you instead of someone whos never been in a truck.
After 11 hours driving in the states I’m ready for a rest. Could always use a little extra to find parking though. That would take the pressure off for me. But that’s a mute point now as I’ve just left the industry after only 6 months OTR
I think the clock should revolve around and promote restfulness. Take more breaks, get more hours immediately. I've stopped for naps on 600 mile runs that had 2 loads and 1 unload. The drive time never exceeds (barring traffic and weather) 11 hours at 62mph average speed. Typically though, we would always spend the night at the first unload point in a line, and could be in line 4 to 6 hours once unloading begins @5 am. But most days we would be unloaded by 8 am, loaded again by 10 am then 240 miles to load and unload again. The wait time is what wrecks the system. So if the day felt long, we could stop for a few hours in the middle so we could be back in a good spot in line the next day. The drive time as consistent on the route as it was, would be nice to accumulate 10 hours of rest or pause the 14 hour clock to do 600 miles in under the 11 hour time. I've been able to successfully use splits at times, but you have to plan them properly to keep them legit. I think any off duty time and especially sleeper birth should pause and earn time.
Dave, I'm not sure what all it was like pre-1980 deregulation, but maybe it's time for some (not saying all) of that to come back. So am curious if you know much about what the deregulation was all about...? If so, could you please share that with us...? Some say good, others bad, but current folks wouldn't know... BTW, can't honestly say anymore if I'm ok with unions or not. And post-deregulation, the unions came down, and I believe the owner operators/new carriers flourished as there are many, many more afterwards. But I trust you can speak better about this than I can. Thanks...
my thinking is the H.O.S needs an overhaul as to dispatchers i've had was once a driver himself his name is Joe Ruby if i said need more time on the load he'd push to get a few extra days on the load
I'm 95% retired also. I think they the gov should lower the hours of drive time to 8 hours. That way we would fall into the work times of most American workers. If the mega company wanted you to drive 11 hours or work 14 hour days they should pay overtime like all other companies. JMHO
I want to quit trucking already, I work 12 or more hours every day, and I make the same money weekly than I used to do working at construction 8 to 9 hours a day. I just have had my license for a little more than 1 year and I understand what my stepfather told me once, “this job is not good anymore” risking your and other people’s lifes, pay big fines that sometimes can be more of what you make in 1 week and on top of that being under risk of going to jail if God forbid something really bad happens. all that to make literally cents per mile. :/
The extra 2 hours should be only for Owner Ops. and not the Mega carriers this would keep them in check from abusing employees. at the same time Owner Ops will be in higher demand and we could ask for higher rates. Think about it.
Treat me like a driver and a human being. Not a slave. I will not be forced to run or do something illegal so you can profit from it. Some trucking companies play with driver's lives and that's not right.
Any owner operators who aren't dispatching themselves right out of the truck are giving away money like milk and cookies to some careless dispatcher. All you need is a smartphone with internet connection. No fax, no printer necessary. All invoices are made digital in pdf. I'm making a LOT more money with better paid and better tailored loads since I switched to self dispatch. Every time a dispatcher tells you there are no loads or whatever they're full of BS. It never took me more than 10 minutes to find myself a load wherever I am in the USA
Hello Canadian Friend. Truck drivers in Europe are only allowed to drive 9 hours per day, with two days alotted10 hours. Authourities control HOS with the digital tachograph and any infractions produce very heavy fines. It all comes down to patronal abuse and main reason why flexability is not tolerated. Those 11 hours of driving make good sense, as opposed to European 9 hours. But we don't make the laws, just have to follow them or suffer financial setbacks. I agree with that flexability and additional driving time,but it won't be allowed because of the " abuse". The digital tachograph is to ensure driver rest and patronal restriction. It boils down to driver expertise and company management. Thanks for sharing your experience.
The 10 hr drive rule I felt better driving like that. I am working for a company now and I told them I wanted to be as part time as possible They are running me harder then anyone else there. To much stress in trucking nowadays. I am crossing 27 years in the industry and want to be retired from this by next year. Company I worked for before knew me on a first name basis and I was treated fairly just did not make consistent money and they always gave me issues for having a dog with me.
What are your max weekly hours in American HOS? I've worked a long distance gravel haul that required 13 hours per day of driving, but then we had 3 days off which kept us in our 70 hr/ week limit for the 7 day cycle.
Sorry but I don’t think small fleets regardless of the year of the truck should have to run an eld. There are days I want to run 16 hours and other days when 6-8 is enough. Also, who in the world wants to rest for 10 hours when away from your family? 5-6 hours and I’m ready to go. Small fleets and o/o should only have to use an eld if they have violations and can’t be the professional we are supposed to be.
I gotta correct you guys on one thing...there are no dispatchers anymore...well, very few anyway. They're Fleet Managers now, and the actual "dispatcher" job has been split into two jobs, you have the aforementioned Fleet Manager, and you also have the "Load Planner". The FM relays the load from the LP to the OTR driver, and the LP never has to deal with the driver at all. These days, it's not even done over the phone anymore, all done by CPU over the ELD. So the LP sets up the route on the CPU, sends it to the FM, the FM sends a message over the ELD to the OTRD to PU the ld. from the shpr. in OKC and del it to the rec. in NYC a.s.a.p.
I disagree with u here, id rather have those hours available to me in case i need them than not besides, who really sleeps 10 hours straight anyway, the 30 mins splits come in very handy for those mid day naps that we all love so much
Dave what do you think? 12 hours max (truck rolling) in a 24 hour period, (0000 to 2359) max ant the other 12 is for the driver's rest and personal time, any time spent over 1 hour at the dock woud be paid to the driver hourly...feedback please!
Started driving back in the early 60s 60 kw 220 cummins 4x4 max speed maybe 55 58 back then you didn't have all the BS you have now ran I -5 had a ATFS permit to bad wasn't like that now, course quit driving in 2010
I've been a CDL driver for 10 years and some of the veteran drivers are worse than a lot of the new drivers. The majority of them don't even do a pretrip in the mornings when they leave, you see it all the time at truck stops and at the rest areas.
All the cities in Canada are 10 to 13 hours apart, that's why the HOS is the way it is. In the old days we had no log books, and then 18 hours drive was a nominal suggestion. Companies didn't force drivers to max out. You could make some decent coin. There is no reason to split your sleeper time up here. And if you do it legal, chances are the cop that pulls you over doesn't know how it works anyways, and you'll get a ticket you'll have to fight. Judges don't know the splits well either. I just run 14/10 ( anybody that thinks that's real is dreaming in technicolor) and never have to worry about violations. So it's way simpler than the US goofy desk jockey brainchild system. If they mandate ELDs up here, that'll be the death of one day delivery.
I have been a truck driver for 39 years and in my opinion 10 hours is sufficient . Safety was not on the minds of FMCSA giving us an extra hour of drive time.
Aviation is the same way. If not for the regulations of 14 duty day and 10 hours rest before returning to work, the companies would abuse the pilots. They already try now.
Yes Dave I say you guys have an unfair advantage since you can drive longer hours in The Great White North and here in The States the limit on gross weight will be raised to the Canada standard
Make the HOS the same across the board - drivers, train crews, airline - 12 on, 12 off. Period. You get 12 hours on duty, regardless of activity. At the 12th hour, you turn into a pumpkin. Your 12 hours off includes 10 hours' uninterrupted rest. If the carrier disturbs you for anything beyond a reasonable call to work, the clock restarts. The employee shall be the sole judge of their own fitness for duty, without fear of retribution.
P Kranz I’d hate to be driving OTO now. !!!! Did did 3 log books 1990 to 1997 Worked 16-18 a day all 7 years. But when I stoped I can tell you I’d sleep 5-6 hours
Bill 777 Your comment is a little bit convoluted, but I'll reply this way:. Yes, I was a locomotive engineer, and also a trucker. I'm therefore intimately familiar with all the HOS laws. If you know anything at all about the HOS, you'd realize that what I propose would greatly simplify a driver's situation. Don't knock the railroads. That's where the big money really is. When all the long-haul business is all on the train, and it's getting closer and closer, you'd do very well to make that career change.
I really want to believe all this, but I'm seeing that truckers aren't just making a little more money than I am, but a lot more. I'm hourly, co-working with salaried office workers in the IT industries, and truckers have it good. After back breaking student loans, and several years of college, and over a decade of failed careers with shitty IT companies that abuse the hourly-salaried accounting tricks (hourly so they can send you home without pay, but salaried so you can't be paid overtime), I FINALLY have a full time IT job working for a major corp (a mega carrier equivalent) and I'm being paid a meager $48K/yr (up from the average of 28K to 36K). Meanwhile, I'm meeting truckers that AREN'T owner ops/lease ops that are making $50K/yr equivalent on a bad week. So which is it? Truckers being paid shit or making more than a college grad in Networking?
Just the fact that you can't stop the clock to take a nap if you are tired, should tell everyone we are dealing with criminals. Corporate America writes all the rules and then delivers them to K street in the cesspool. Talk to a politician about safety and they will see dollar signs. Unfortunately some how we have become the lowest form of life on the planet, show me someone that says they care about the truckers and if he is not a trucker I will show you a liar.
The whole HOS is a joke and needs to go. A stupid elog doesnt know when you're tired or can drive another 200-300 miles even though elog says you have to take a break and you might be 1-2hrs from your home.
I was leased to a power only Co. about 16 or 17 years ago was coming out TX. on 40 with a frac tank hit an ice storm wound parked in shamrock TX. called in the next morning dispatch the told to get moving or i going to be late told him thatthere was about 6 inches of ice wasn't going till it cleared up some he told me he better what safe. then I did offered him a choice he leave me alone or I could grab the plate and ifta sticker out of my glove box and could get somebody else to come and get the frac tank and hung up the owner called me 15 minutes later asked me what was wrong told him what dispatcher said he stay tilling felt safe and call let him when I left and what eta was last time I heard that dispatcher he no longer worked there was there about year went back to hauling cars grumpy old man with a bus
I was leased to a power only Co. about 16 or 17 years ago was coming out TX. on 40 with a frac tank hit an ice storm wound parked in shamrock TX. called in the next morning dispatch the told to get moving or i going to be late told him thatthere was about 6 inches of ice wasn't going till it cleared up some he told me he better what safe. then I did offered him a choice he leave me alone or I could grab the plate and ifta sticker out of my glove box and could get somebody else to come and get the frac tank and hung up the owner called me 15 minutes later asked me what was wrong told him what dispatcher said he stay tilling felt safe and call let him when I left and what eta was last time I heard that dispatcher he no longer worked there was there about year went back to hauling cars grumpy old man with a bus
It would be better to have these two extra hours only for one or two days every week. That would help you to return home or to the yard if you are very close but your driving time is not enough.
Speed up delivery and pick up times and there won't be a need for 13 hours. Time to start fining the crap out of warehouses for excessive delivery and pick up times. Costco would be a good role model for places like Wal-Mart.
Agreed! Dave
I may be new to the industry but it didn't take long at all to identify that this is one of the biggest problems my view is you agreed to the appt time so load/unload your stuff or pay me to sit there this 4 hrs before detention starts just invites abuse at the hands of shippers/recievers
More strategic truck parking would be great so I don't stop early, just to be able to legally park.
Hey man I live in my truck . I’m all for 13 hour days all day long . I am a young man 24 and can do those easily plus I can do 700+ miles on Canadian hours ! Love it
Why not allow all 50 states in the US to run under Alaskan rules? They are allowed to drive 13 hours within, I believe, a 15-hour tour of Duty and 80 hours in 8 days.
Just found your channel and really appreciate all the information. It's not always the info as it is the delivery method. Your presentation is every bit as good as the information. Thanks
Thank you sir! Dave
My pleasure...thank you!
I had a dispatcher exactly like that. Before Cell phones, my wife could call him and ask, "Where is Ben this morning?" He would look at his watch and say, "Well, it's 9:00 am, he just got out of bed and is loading at Cities Service in Blackwell, Oklahoma". He knew his driver's that well!
Benny Robinson I had a boss like that also . If he saw my name on a bl he knew it was delivered !
I think they can just keep the hours of service 11,14,70 limits the same and just remove or reduce the consecutivity requirements of the breaks so you can move when/if you need to and rest when you feel like it. It would also help drivers avoid some of the big city rush hour backups without preventing them from getting to their destination on time or to get to a preferable parking location as well as for situations where a customer doesn't allow overnight parking.
Also, Running against the hourglass of the current 14 hour window can cause drivers to do unsafe actions to try to get to where they need to before the arbitrary deadline of sand runs out, especially when they have plenty of time left on their driving and 70 hour clocks that currently goes to waste.
I worked for a small trucking company, and the owner of the company ran loads also. He had done that for years. I called in like I was told by the other owner every day. One day when I called in I was told by the owner that I didn't have to call in anymore ,because he could tell by my driving that I wasn't one of those drivers who had to be babysit. He told me where I was at that time. He told me that myself and 1 other driver was always early to our delivery. He knew when we would be at our delivery and when we would be at our shop every week.
Driving OTR is stressful enough, I damn sure don't want an extra 2hrs behind the wheel, behind an idiot 4-wheeler who has nothing better to do than to drive around texting his friends and putting on make-up while she pines away about how his parents just don't understand her lifestyle.
I feel the Canadian drive time allowed for drivers to get to a truck stop. We have further distances between cities and truck stops. North of Toronto it can get harder to find truck stops and safe parking.
I work 14 hours. I sit at docks and trailer swap a lot and that eats up my clock. I usually don't even use my full drive time in a day
best work schedule for me would be: 12/12: 1 hour breakfast, 1 hour lunch, 1 hour supper, 1 hour off (your own time) to relax or do what ever you want on your time, plus your 8 hours of sleep. Total 12 hours for you (spread out the way you want to take your breaks) vs 12 hours of work: 11 hours driving 1 hour on duty. That would be the best.
Yeah, that sounds good! Dave
I like Alaska HOS 15 driving hours and 20 work hours but i agree the mega carriers in the lower 48 would abuse their drivers. YES we need to improve our rates even here. $5.30 PM is not enough for running the Dalton
Dave, ever since I first heard the idea of adopting the Canadian HOS, my thoughts were exactly as yours are. Now I’m 24 and don’t even have a year in yet, but I know when I need to park my rig and when I can keep driving. I may not be a seasoned vet, but I know I could certainly benefit from the Canadian HOS, and that’s just because I know when I’m too tired and I don’t have a dispatcher that pushes me. You’re exactly right tho, If Joe Swift Driver is feeling tired they would probably tell him to keep driving until he can’t. Which isn’t safe and counteracts what the ELD is trying to accomplish. It’s typically not the driver that is unsafe, it’s the people around or the people pushing the driver.
I hope this doesn’t come off as cross, I’m by no means upset by anything. Love your content, and I honestly agree with at least 90% of your opinions and thoughts. Maybe even more!! Lol
Just fyi dave i work for a company called usa truck and so far they have been amazing. The trained me and i have been here 4 years and they preach safety and even pay you layover if you are shut down due to weather. The best part is we have owner ops and lease ops and they promote your channel to them as a way of learning the ropes. Keep up the great work dave.
Canada's big carriers treat the 13 hr maximum as a 13 hhr minimum. Don't see the US being any different.
They actually see the 16 hour duty window, as a 16 hour working window. Lots of the big Canadian companies, are making the turnpike and super B guys build their sets/trailers OFF DUTY! So that's 3 hours working off duty, 13 hours driving, and sometimes an hour of doing some BS on duty. I refuse to move truckload freight in Canada anymore, I do US LTL now.
yeah!!, DOT says a driver can work a maximum of 14 hours with 11 hours of driving.
companies say, drivers must work no less than 14 hours with a maximum of 11 hours of driving. I don’t care if you are tired, I don’t care if you didn’t sleep well.
funny the fact that drivers are not protected by the laws of 8 hours a day plus ot after 40 hours a week.
but we are forced to work 70 hours a week and be regulated by DOT and subject to a shit ton of control. all in benefit of the big companies and screw the drivers.
Dave. great video. Can you do one on different ELD's. My company is using "Just trucking" app. what a pain in the REAR!!
while it's nice having the phone app, the bluetooth keeps dropping the signal. then you have to unplug, log out and redo everything. plus a day or two later you get notified of unclaimed driving hours.
Sorry thats "keep trucking"
The only one I had any experience with was from Peoplenet, but I found it worked quite well. Dave
Much rather go back to pre logs in Canada. Drive until you are tired then sleep until you are not. So much better for those who ran that way.
I started on the 8 hours break and 10 hours drive rules. Some days I had 20+ hours before I used up my 10 with delivery and reload time included. I don't miss those days!
I use both weekly (go through the US back into southern Ontario then back through to Manitoba) and have to say, driving time is the only thing that should be limited during a 24 hour period. Those 14 and 16 hour windows can kill a day if you get screwed.
I understand the point about mega carriers abusing drivers, but that is not a trucking issue, that's a political issue. Mega carriers have the politicians in their pockets, that will have to be eliminated before trucking's woes are solved.
I definitely do prefer the US system but would like to see a bigger window to fit the driving time into in a day (I have a good dispatcher, but it's not uncommon from what I hear for drivers to get pushed into doing 8 hour turn arounds every night).
Sadly, those days and dispatchers are long gone!
If you can drive 11 hours a day, you should have a 77 hour week, not 70.
Apparently, FMCSA is looking into giving you an hour extra if a shipper/reciever won't let you sleep on the property.
Yes, it's become such an issue for overnight parking that they are looking for a special exemption for that rule.
Apparently they are conducting a test program to bring back 5/5 split.
My issue is the 14 hour clock. It takes them 5 hours to load/unload me, and since I cant stay on the property, I cant wait for my 8 split to come up. So I really have 9 hours to work for the day instead of 14. By the time I get to the truck stop, scale, slide the tandems, it might be eight hours to drive.
Of course, the mileage rate still sucks. My company gave us all a three cent raise because they were starting guys out at .30 with a 1 cent raise per year.
Well rookies are going to other companies that are paying more. Thus the raise.
But that was given out of neccessity to recruit more drivers. Not for us. :/
Hi Tom, do you have any links about the fact that FMCSA is looking into giving you an hour extra if a shipper/receiver won't let you sleep on the property?
Those delays at shipper/receiver are killing
With paper logs , no one knew what you where doing unless they looked at your logbook. The only way you could be tracked is by truck satellite . Now with EDL , you’re tracked like a prison inmate. Just saying.
What a nightmare this industry is becoming. DEF trucks that wont work in Canadian cold, e logs, autonomous research. Time is running our for the hard workers.
I'm loving your channel.very educational.and alot of truth.ty sir.be safe out there.
Thanks Joseph! You too! Dave
Dave, I agree with you on everything you said. More HOS I don't think will help. It's raise the rates that make the difference in making or braking the driver, aka the truck...but some yahoo will set behind a desk like they have been doing thinking up more restrictions for the driver to follow, even tho they have him/ her now to where they barely can move with out breaking some rule, weather it's Federal, State, Local, or company. It's damn if you do or damn if you dont....
Dave, I agree some of these trucking companys will do anything to try and get a driver to drive longer. I worked for a company that had day cab drivers as well as OTR. One day, the compliance clerk told me that once a week a driver is allowed to drive 13 hours, but only one day a week. I immediately explained to him that that rule does exist for OTR drivers but it is designed for daycab drivers who return to the same domicile location every day. I pulled out my green book and told him what page to read. They grew to hate me because I wouldn't run International Paper loads that were over weight. I explained to them that there may not be a scale house between the supplier and customer, but that Alabama primarily uses portable scales. After 5 months I turned in my truck
Oh yeah, the mega carriers would abuse the system, they already do to a point. One of the former companies I worked for is already under investigation for forcing drivers to falsify there logs, just so they can get there freight moved.
There's a lot of dispatchers that learned, don't push me, I'm running the truck not you. It works both ways, you screw me, I'll go outta my way to screw you. But if you work with me, I'll try and help you out. Give a little, get a little.
Dave you are absolutly correct about EVERYTHING you said here. I strongly beleive that 13 hours is too long a day, and the American 11 hours of driving is more than enough for anyone who drives truck for a living. I only drive truck part time, on weekend runs from Montreal (your favorite place to go trucking to...LOL) to Brampton Ont. We have a drop yard up there, and then we B/T to Milton Ont. to hook up another trailer and head back to Montreal.I have never been able to do it in the 13 hours we leaglly have to drive. I always stopped once i'm out of Toronto in Odessa at the On Route to sleep my 8 hours. At that point of my run i have already logged close to10 hours of driving and im tired..There are guys that will do the whole run and arrive in the Montreal yard with seconds left on their clock, but me, i just can't stomache it. I am no SUPER TRUCKER, and i have nothing to prove.I just want to truck safely and get some deserved sleep and get up fresh and ready to roll again..the 13 hours are just too much.
Good practice Ramman! Don't ever let them push you to run tired or illegal! Dave
Another insightful video.
Thanks Donald! Dave
Well said. It should return to 10 max driving time and 1 hour on the clock prep that an b split in to two 30 minute times with one hour extra for emergency time of driving only then off for 12 hours before driving again.
My last previous carrier, LCT, had paper logs. I could had broken the law by falsefying my logs, but I didn't. It wasn't worth time in prison and losing my license. Now these e-logs I have no problem with. what I don't like is this mandatory 30min break. I believe you should take your break anytime and more than 30 minutes.
At the end that sounds just like my dispatcher. No idea how he keeps track of what he does. Also is nice having a dispatcher who drove for 20 plus years and has been to most places he sends you instead of someone whos never been in a truck.
After 11 hours driving in the states I’m ready for a rest. Could always use a little extra to find parking though. That would take the pressure off for me. But that’s a mute point now as I’ve just left the industry after only 6 months OTR
I think the clock should revolve around and promote restfulness. Take more breaks, get more hours immediately. I've stopped for naps on 600 mile runs that had 2 loads and 1 unload. The drive time never exceeds (barring traffic and weather) 11 hours at 62mph average speed. Typically though, we would always spend the night at the first unload point in a line, and could be in line 4 to 6 hours once unloading begins @5 am. But most days we would be unloaded by 8 am, loaded again by 10 am then 240 miles to load and unload again. The wait time is what wrecks the system. So if the day felt long, we could stop for a few hours in the middle so we could be back in a good spot in line the next day. The drive time as consistent on the route as it was, would be nice to accumulate 10 hours of rest or pause the 14 hour clock to do 600 miles in under the 11 hour time. I've been able to successfully use splits at times, but you have to plan them properly to keep them legit. I think any off duty time and especially sleeper birth should pause and earn time.
The U.S. way is better for the drivers then it's for the company
screw 13 hours, dont take cheap freight and wages will go up.
I say go Pre-E.L.D, Pre-Emissions and escape the Matrix!
JessieJ pipe dream
Dave, I'm not sure what all it was like pre-1980 deregulation, but maybe it's time for some (not saying all) of that to come back. So am curious if you know much about what the deregulation was all about...? If so, could you please share that with us...? Some say good, others bad, but current folks wouldn't know...
BTW, can't honestly say anymore if I'm ok with unions or not. And post-deregulation, the unions came down, and I believe the owner operators/new carriers flourished as there are many, many more afterwards. But I trust you can speak better about this than I can. Thanks...
Will try, stay tuned! Dave
my thinking is the H.O.S needs an overhaul as to dispatchers i've had was once a driver himself his name is Joe Ruby if i said need more time on the load he'd push to get a few extra days on the load
Exactly! That would really be slave labor 🤤
I'm 95% retired also. I think they the gov should lower the hours of drive time to 8 hours. That way we would fall into the work times of most American workers. If the mega company wanted you to drive 11 hours or work 14 hour days they should pay overtime like all other companies. JMHO
Agreed! Dave
Haha what are you thoughts about the Alberta oilfield and and British Columbia log haulers and there 15 hour log in Canada
It's always about the profit, but "safety first".
I want to quit trucking already, I work 12 or more hours every day, and I make the same money weekly than I used to do working at construction 8 to 9 hours a day. I just have had my license for a little more than 1 year and I understand what my stepfather told me once, “this job is not good anymore” risking your and other people’s lifes, pay big fines that sometimes can be more of what you make in 1 week and on top of that being under risk of going to jail if God forbid something really bad happens.
all that to make literally cents per mile.
:/
The extra 2 hours should be only for Owner Ops. and not the Mega carriers this would keep them in check from abusing employees. at the same time Owner Ops will be in higher demand and we could ask for higher rates. Think about it.
I dont get the Canadian system, they governed the trucks to 65 miles but allow 13 hour day drive.
Treat me like a driver and a human being. Not a slave. I will not be forced to run or do something illegal so you can profit from it. Some trucking companies play with driver's lives and that's not right.
Any owner operators who aren't dispatching themselves right out of the truck are giving away money like milk and cookies to some careless dispatcher. All you need is a smartphone with internet connection. No fax, no printer necessary. All invoices are made digital in pdf. I'm making a LOT more money with better paid and better tailored loads since I switched to self dispatch.
Every time a dispatcher tells you there are no loads or whatever they're full of BS. It never took me more than 10 minutes to find myself a load wherever I am in the USA
thanks partner boy if you ever hear of a good dispatcher like that broadcast it please
Hello Canadian Friend. Truck drivers in Europe are only allowed to drive 9 hours per day, with two days alotted10 hours. Authourities control HOS with the digital tachograph and any infractions produce very heavy fines. It all comes down to patronal abuse and main reason why flexability is not tolerated. Those 11 hours of driving make good sense, as opposed to European 9 hours. But we don't make the laws, just have to follow them or suffer financial setbacks. I agree with that flexability and additional driving time,but it won't be allowed because of the " abuse". The digital tachograph is to ensure driver rest and patronal restriction. It boils down to driver expertise and company management. Thanks for sharing your experience.
Thank you Annibal! Dave
The 10 hr drive rule I felt better driving like that. I am working for a company now and I told them I wanted to be as part time as possible They are running me harder then anyone else there. To much stress in trucking nowadays. I am crossing 27 years in the industry and want to be retired from this by next year. Company I worked for before knew me on a first name basis and I was treated fairly just did not make consistent money and they always gave me issues for having a dog with me.
What are your max weekly hours in American HOS? I've worked a long distance gravel haul that required 13 hours per day of driving, but then we had 3 days off which kept us in our 70 hr/ week limit for the 7 day cycle.
70 hrs max, then reset 34 hrs. Dave
Sorry but I don’t think small fleets regardless of the year of the truck should have to run an eld. There are days I want to run 16 hours and other days when 6-8 is enough. Also, who in the world wants to rest for 10 hours when away from your family? 5-6 hours and I’m ready to go. Small fleets and o/o should only have to use an eld if they have violations and can’t be the professional we are supposed to be.
I gotta correct you guys on one thing...there are no dispatchers anymore...well, very few anyway. They're Fleet Managers now, and the actual "dispatcher" job has been split into two jobs, you have the aforementioned Fleet Manager, and you also have the "Load Planner". The FM relays the load from the LP to the OTR driver, and the LP never has to deal with the driver at all. These days, it's not even done over the phone anymore, all done by CPU over the ELD. So the LP sets up the route on the CPU, sends it to the FM, the FM sends a message over the ELD to the OTRD to PU the ld. from the shpr. in OKC and del it to the rec. in NYC a.s.a.p.
Good god, too many initials for me! Dave
I use my own hos,
I disagree with u here, id rather have those hours available to me in case i need them than not besides, who really sleeps 10 hours straight anyway, the 30 mins splits come in very handy for those mid day naps that we all love so much
Dave what do you think? 12 hours max (truck rolling) in a 24 hour period, (0000 to 2359) max ant the other 12 is for the driver's rest and personal time, any time spent over 1 hour at the dock woud be paid to the driver hourly...feedback please!
I like that, but I'd like to see the driver paid for every hour at the dock, no free hour. Dave
I vote for the old way back ---- 10 hr. driving - 8 hr. off
Started driving back in the early 60s 60 kw 220 cummins 4x4 max speed maybe 55 58 back then you didn't have all the BS you have now ran I -5 had a ATFS permit to bad wasn't like that now, course quit driving in 2010
I've been a CDL driver for 10 years and some of the veteran drivers are worse than a lot of the new drivers. The majority of them don't even do a pretrip in the mornings when they leave, you see it all the time at truck stops and at the rest areas.
Why does Canada have 3 axles on their trailers??? Thanks Anonymous!
Allows greater payload. Dave
Thankyou!!
All the cities in Canada are 10 to 13 hours apart, that's why the HOS is the way it is. In the old days we had no log books, and then 18 hours drive was a nominal suggestion. Companies didn't force drivers to max out. You could make some decent coin. There is no reason to split your sleeper time up here. And if you do it legal, chances are the cop that pulls you over doesn't know how it works anyways, and you'll get a ticket you'll have to fight. Judges don't know the splits well either. I just run 14/10 ( anybody that thinks that's real is dreaming in technicolor) and never have to worry about violations. So it's way simpler than the US goofy desk jockey brainchild system. If they mandate ELDs up here, that'll be the death of one day delivery.
I've read Canada will mandate ELD's in 2020. Dave
added drive hrs mean more fatigue related accidents
Thumbs up. God bless.
I have been a truck driver for 39 years and in my opinion 10 hours is sufficient . Safety was not on the minds of FMCSA giving us an extra hour of drive time.
Aviation is the same way. If not for the regulations of 14 duty day and 10 hours rest before returning to work, the companies would abuse the pilots. They already try now.
Sounds like this Jeff brown was a down to earth small town guy!
He was and sharp as a tack to boot! Dave
All we have to do is just log legal
ALL work logged as on duty
You are right buddy
Yes Dave I say you guys have an unfair advantage since you can drive longer hours in The Great White North and here in
The States the limit on gross weight will be raised to the Canada standard
You think you have infastructure issues now! Dave
10 hrs driving is too much. 8.5 is perfect as never a 34 hour restart
The new U.S. tax law will help driver's make less money they got rid of the all deductions for per diem and other personal expenses
Make the HOS the same across the board - drivers, train crews, airline - 12 on, 12 off. Period.
You get 12 hours on duty, regardless of activity. At the 12th hour, you turn into a pumpkin. Your 12 hours off includes 10 hours' uninterrupted rest. If the carrier disturbs you for anything beyond a reasonable call to work, the clock restarts. The employee shall be the sole judge of their own fitness for duty, without fear of retribution.
P Kranz is your day job train engineering or pilot? If not quit complaining about their rules
. Should a plane or train be limited to 80k pounds?
P Kranz Wow. That’s a great idea. Doctors too. ??
P Kranz I’d hate to be driving OTO now. !!!! Did did 3 log books 1990 to 1997 Worked 16-18 a day all 7 years. But when I stoped I can tell you I’d sleep 5-6 hours
Bill 777 Your comment is a little bit convoluted, but I'll reply this way:. Yes, I was a locomotive engineer, and also a trucker. I'm therefore intimately familiar with all the HOS laws. If you know anything at all about the HOS, you'd realize that what I propose would greatly simplify a driver's situation.
Don't knock the railroads. That's where the big money really is. When all the long-haul business is all on the train, and it's getting closer and closer, you'd do very well to make that career change.
P Kranz I am totally against that idea. We need MORE flexibility, NOT LESS!!!!
I really want to believe all this, but I'm seeing that truckers aren't just making a little more money than I am, but a lot more. I'm hourly, co-working with salaried office workers in the IT industries, and truckers have it good. After back breaking student loans, and several years of college, and over a decade of failed careers with shitty IT companies that abuse the hourly-salaried accounting tricks (hourly so they can send you home without pay, but salaried so you can't be paid overtime), I FINALLY have a full time IT job working for a major corp (a mega carrier equivalent) and I'm being paid a meager $48K/yr (up from the average of 28K to 36K). Meanwhile, I'm meeting truckers that AREN'T owner ops/lease ops that are making $50K/yr equivalent on a bad week. So which is it? Truckers being paid shit or making more than a college grad in Networking?
I think implementation of 16 hour work periods migh be more beneficial..
Just the fact that you can't stop the clock to take a nap if you are tired, should tell everyone we are dealing with criminals. Corporate America writes all the rules and then delivers them to K street in the cesspool. Talk to a politician about safety and they will see dollar signs. Unfortunately some how we have become the lowest form of life on the planet, show me someone that says they care about the truckers and if he is not a trucker I will show you a liar.
Sadly, I gotta agree! Dave
The whole HOS is a joke and needs to go. A stupid elog doesnt know when you're tired or can drive another 200-300 miles even though elog says you have to take a break and you might be 1-2hrs from your home.
I was leased to a power only Co. about 16 or 17 years ago was coming out TX. on 40 with
a frac tank hit an ice storm wound parked in shamrock TX. called in the next morning dispatch the told to get moving or i going to be late told him thatthere was about 6 inches
of ice wasn't going till it cleared up some he told me he better what safe. then I did offered him a choice he leave me alone or I could grab the plate and ifta sticker out of my glove box
and could get somebody else to come and get the frac tank and hung up the owner called
me 15 minutes later asked me what was wrong told him what dispatcher said he stay tilling felt safe and call let him when I left and what eta was last time I heard that dispatcher he no longer worked there was there about year went back to hauling cars
grumpy old man with a bus
Please write Trump and Bernie Sanders about safety and sleep deprivation.
I was leased to a power only Co. about 16 or 17 years ago was coming out TX. on 40 with
a frac tank hit an ice storm wound parked in shamrock TX. called in the next morning dispatch the told to get moving or i going to be late told him thatthere was about 6 inches
of ice wasn't going till it cleared up some he told me he better what safe. then I did offered him a choice he leave me alone or I could grab the plate and ifta sticker out of my glove box
and could get somebody else to come and get the frac tank and hung up the owner called
me 15 minutes later asked me what was wrong told him what dispatcher said he stay tilling felt safe and call let him when I left and what eta was last time I heard that dispatcher he no longer worked there was there about year went back to hauling cars
grumpy old man with a bus
I have no sympathy for idiots like that dispatcher. Dave
marshall baldwin in no part of that rambling could I make sense of what your saying. Learn how to spell and type