Im indigenous american. Thank you for quoting brading sweetgrass. In my life i was honored to have many aunties, uncles, grandparenfs, sisters, brothers who are not of my own blood but of the same traditions or spirit. The saying "it takes a village" is true when it comes to raising children. We rely on our family, friends and community resources for childcare and development. I myself work in the childcare industry as an accounts & state applications person. I have no children of my own nor can i have them due to health issues, but i have been an auntie to many of my communities children. Thats my legacy
Your message is SO important for so many reasons. I truly hate that so many modern societies have given up on the idea of community and the idea of "it takes a village". We need all the chosen aunties, uncles, grandparents and siblings we can get if we are to raise our children in healthy and conscientious environments and of course your role as auntie is just as important as any parent's.
Your words are of truth and love. I have a daughter, she is lucky to have aunts, uncles, cousins that are both blood relatives and others that may not share genes with her but which have been part of her life from the beginning and care deeply about her. We are lucky to have a village that supports her and us as parents 😊
"There are parts of the population that are growing without the consent of the people's bodies that are being used" is such a f*cking mic drop and such a concise way of explaining my ineloquent rage feelings.
My partner and I chose to never have children long before we met, and hearing people talk about population control i.e. aspects of eco-fascism is deeply disturbing. Last week I flew across the country to help my brother and sister-in-law with their newborn baby despite being flexitarian and trying to create as little waste as possible in my own life. And they are heartwarmingly excellent new parents (just exhausted and scared of course), and I am a part of their lives so I’m a part of this kid’s life too. We’re eager to save the planet for future humans, so if not them, if not for this kid as well, then who are we doing it for?
You are saving no one. White people who are the educated ones don't want to have children in 3rd world people having 10 or more children. Use your brain for once!. This is why you have a lot of Muslims in Great Britain. It's almost unrecognizable. Wake up
As someone living in a generation where most of us will never afford a house and probably will never get to actually retire, not to mention what we are and will go through due to the climate crisis, I've always found it really difficult to accept my friends' choice to have children even in the relatively safe country I live in. So thank you for having this discussion as it's not something I could bring up with them but did desperately want to hear another side. I do think their having kids is a huge act of optimism, but the people I know having them don't act like it. They're not making lifestyle changes, and they talk about the future in an "it's only going to get worse" kind of way and I have to bite my tongue to stop myself asking why they brought kids into this world if they thought that's what the future would be like.
Thank you for this comment, you took a lot of really important words out of my mouth that I don't think I would have articulated half as well. I loved hearing Leena's thoughts on this but I can't say I share her optimism; I worry enough about my own future already, and obtaining a political sciences degree has only made me more trepidatious. Colonialism is still live and well, huge areas around the world are rapidly becoming unliveable while we are already failing the refugees that exist, and billionaires are literally building bunkers. Even just knowing that hotter, dryer summers are making tics and fleas more widespread makes me worry about how I will keep my dog comfortable throughout his life. It absolutely infuriates me to know how many parents continue to eat meat and pretend that nothing is happening, and I fear so much for the kids even just ten years younger than I am :/
Thank you for this comment - I so agree. It is a huge act of optimism (and I don't believe it's in any form selfish not to share that optimism). I feel that once you have a children, it's almost becomes in your "interest" to deny reality, to some extent (to avoid daily painful thoughts). I'm the kind of person who would instead worry for the rest of their lives for their child, not "go with the flow" of our uncontrollable future. I think the amount of worry a child brings, even in "normal" times, cannot be underestimated.
Thank you for this, you said it far better than I ever could! I loved this video and found it so helpful to hear another perspective, but it's also comforting to see those with an opinion nearer to my own in the comments too! Lots to think about and reflect on, I'm grateful to know that I'm not alone.
As someone with a child (3 year old) I do totally understand your view. I worry about not being able to leave behind a house for him to sell or much in the way of savings as we rent and will probably do so until we die. I worry about what the world will look like in 30 years and how much it will have changed. However I do think this isn't a new worry, parents for generations have had these same concerns and people haven't stopped having children when there have been wars, terrorism and recessions. The biological urge to have children is so powerful for some people that the world would have to be on fire before they stopped. We also still need people to have children to keep the economy going and to care for the elderly and sick. My partner and I only have one and will likely only have one and we also try to live as sustainability as we can and try to pass that onto our son. The way I see it, people are going to keep having children regardless. So I may as I well have one as well and try and raise him to be a decent human being.
The answer is they didn't question, they did it because it's normal and because they wanted to. The world is not getting better soon. Your friends do not care about that though.
Climate change is one of my concerns with having children, but my main concerns are cost and lack of societal support. My boyfriend and I both say we want kids but we’re also both increasingly unsure about it because of this. We’re both neurodivergent and quickly realizing that we are not capable of meeting all the demands that society places on us. We don’t live near family so unless we are able to create a strong community, then I’m afraid we won’t have the support we need and won’t be able to cope with having children.
seconding your comment to a T. My boyfriend has PTSD/autism/Depression and I have ADHD/Autism/GAD. We often say “if the economy gets better, then we consider kids.” Because only then we know we’ll have our needs met, and subsequently have our kid’s needs met. My family is overseas, we only have his two moms nearby. I’m struggling to create a business, he’s struggling with his grueling hours. As much as I idealized the idea of being a mom growing up, the battle is so uphill. And then bringing children into a late stage capitalistic climate-affected United States or hurricane-riddled Caribbean island where I’m from… Too much
I cried during this video, I am a forest school teacher and deeply want a child and this has made me feel so emotional and also hopeful. I wish that everyone could separate the politicized stats from life
If you feel your life is so empty that you need to fill it with presence of kids you should adopt! There's nearly 500k in the foster care system in the US alone.
I do have a child and am pregnant with a second. I think that having a child is a RADICAL act of optimism as a person who is informed about the world right now. My care about the world is so deeply connected to my love for my children. I care about the world. I care about my children. And I will work even harder to try to make sure the world exists in a good way for them.
I don't see how it's radical when it's something the majority of the population does... Also seems more delusional than optimistic to believe your child's life will be better than your own.
@@dikhed1983 my grandmother only went to school until age nine before she was pulled out to WORK. my mother only had one year of college before she had to help her family with cash and labor. my experience was VASTLY different; and I was lucky enough to finish two degrees. hoping your child's life is Better is NOT delusional. people with children and grandchildren have an INVESTMENT in the future that I, as a childless person cannot fathom.
I recently read the Conceivable Future which is ALL about this topic and did similar to you in the sense of framing it about systemic issues rather than giving a clear-cut answer. We should be asking ourselves WHY we have to ask ourselves this question in the first place. I've had a lot of worries about becoming a parent in the future but really, I just come back to this each time: I will simply not allow Shell, BP, Exxon, Total etc to stop me from having a child. It's as simple as that. They do not deserve to strip away that right - and they also do not deserve to strip away that right through environmental racism and the harming of people's health.
I feel like that graph goes to show how many people just don't see children (who eventually become adults) as their own individuals, and are still beholden to their parents no matter how old they get
I have 3 kids, and we have made very conscious choices about how to raise them. For example, we have one car (as of May, bought from a local family) and prioritize busing and/or walking when possible. We cloth diaper, breastfeed, and don’t buy baby food or purées. 90% of the clothes, toys, and gear in our home are secondhand, and most, if not all, will be passed down to other kiddos when our kids are grown. I desperately wanted children, and felt conflicted, but the truth is that if people who care deeply about the planet stop having babies, we are also giving up the chance to raise a generation of children who will be ambassadors for this earth that we love so deeply. My 5 year old loves gardening and tending to “his” plants in his forest school. My 3 year old is the one who makes sure we always have a canvas bag when we go to the store and picks up trash when we go for walks. My youngest is a baby, and is wearing clothes that his brothers, cousins, and friends have worn before him, and playing with toys that were passed down or made lovingly by hand. I realize that I’m super biased, but I think that the world is a better place with them in it ❤
You know that having a kid is the worst things you can do for the environment right? It does not matter at all if you only have one car. People without kids can have 10 cars and they will do more for the environment than you by not having kids. The mental gymnastics people like you do to justify their own selfish decision to have kids is ridiculous.
Don't kid yourself with all these cutesy green eco gestures. You still added 3 resource-consuming 1st world human beings onto this massively overstressed and polluted planet.
This was a moving video Leena! As someone who works in the climate advocacy space but also is a person who has always known and very much wanted to be a mom, the tension is very real around this question but I think your point about how not wanting them to grow up in a climate ravaged world is inherently a bit of a selfish thought is so true! And I also think children are a hope for the future, and a promise to yourself that things may better in the future than they are now
Lol. The polution created and the resources taken by one person is far much greater than a cow. No vegetarianism/veganism can beat that. So having less human in this planet has a much better impact for the environment than reducing cows. 😂
"Would I want to bring a child, who I would dearly love, into this world knowing about the major collapse that would happen in their lifetime?" That was the question I asked myself 3 decades ago. I was lucky. Having worked for a professor about 45 years ago measuring CO2 I had an early heads up on the consequences of CO2 buildup. I said no, and got the vasectomy. Yes, as I age, it's hard to not have any children to help me from time to time, but I'm sure I made the right decision. It's a personal decision for everyone. No one should tell anyone else how many children to have I don't think. For what it's worth many my age who do have children, rarely see their children. My girl friend has been busy trying to protect her two children, something that is at best temporary, and uncertain, as there is actually no place on earth to hide from it. So like you Lenna, I'm child-free by choice! My hat goes off to you for addressing this important issue! 🙂
Thanks for sharing your perspective as someone older who made the choice to be child-free. I'm mid-30s and in the last few years made the choice to be child-free. I think I have always been leaning towards this decision for the same questions you asked. But for many years I didn't feel brave enough to commit to that decision. Being surrounded by the narrative of motherhood being the best experience has not helped. So it's refreshing and heartening to hear from someone who's lived through that decision.
As a person who never planned to have kids, and then became a parent (we got full custody of my husband's child), I would have to say the number one thing I would consider before having a child is what kind of community you are in and how they will be there for your child. Raising a child in an intentional way is very hard, and it's so important to have support from family, friends, the community around you. Building community and reducing individualism is an essential climate action, and I think also one of the best things you can do for your future child. Also realize the climate crisis' biggest impact on your future children, at first, will be the mental health toll upon them when they are told they have no future. We spend a lot of time with our tween talking about climate solutions, and how the future is going to be what they help create.
Early 30s, always wanted children and are trying to conceive currently. As an environmentalist this has always been top of mind. I do not think the answer to the climate crisis is a 'children of men' situation, and I am facing the climate crisis too and not for one second has it ever made me wish I wasn't born. I mourn and hurt deeply for what has been lost and what we will lose, but cannot wish that I never knew the wonders of the earth and the universe.
I have a daughter and I worry so much about her future re: the climate crisis. It’s really stressful. I love my daughter more than anything and would never take back my choice to have her but I 10000% support people who choose to stay child-free.
I have, from as young a six, insisted I will adopt. I didn't want the faff of having to have a partner to be able to have children. I've been challenged on this quite a bit by friends and it's a hot topic between me and my current partner (who is very much in favour of biological children). The climate crisis has only strengthened my resolve to not procreate when there are plenty of children who already need homes and love. I hate that it's considered a second, third, or lesser option.
I would look into the adoption system and talk to some adoptees before you adopt. There are definitely ethical ways to adopt! But there are a lot of unethical ways, too.
I've always had this strong feeling that instead of biological children, a child will find me when I'm a bit older and I will adopt them. I do not want to bear children myself, but I do hope that this child will come into my life when they need it the most. Maybe it will happen some day :)
I’ve struggled with this idea before not just because of the climate but because of living in America and all of our horrible backpedaling on women’s rights. However, my sibling had this nugget of wisdom that has stuck with me. They told me “if you allow a tyrannical government to stop you from freely living your life then you have given them exactly what they want.” Having children is radical optimism but this world won’t get any better if there’s nobody left to help it.
I assure you, the world isn't going to stop having babies to the point of the extinction of species any time soon. It's just not going to happen, people will always have sex and keep having children, whether they really want to or not, or whether they even have a choice. We're not going to run out of humans any time soon, I really, really don't think you can comprehend just how huge the number '8 billion' really is.
23:29 it’s probably out of scope for this video, but what’s not really being addressed is the non-human world that is being destroyed more and more with each generation. Just the act of living requires resources and the planet is not just here to support human life. Yes, we do need to use the resources we still have much more carefully than we do now, but there will be a point where everything will be used up and the human population just cannot grow anymore. The analogy with the ice sculpture does not take into account that the more people witnessing the ice melt, the faster it will disappear.
Amen, wildlife has reduced by 70% since 1970. Many fish species numbers are down 90% and our human impact is causing marine heatwaves which further kills the ocean. Microplastics in everything. It’s so beyond fixable, it’s not just “weird weather in the future”
@@clairbear1234 Exactly this. I find it a bit bizarre to only think of it in terms of 'less material goods' and 'weird weather', considering the actual tipping points we are reaching and how one might infer this will destabilise society.
This is such a great essay, I feel like I need to bookmark this to send to friends. I’ve tried to make many of these arguments before but could never collate them as elegantly as you did!
24:02: I think there's an important difference between the sadness of witnessing what's disappearing vs the absolute suffering humans will physically encounter with the planet's slow (to us) death. The latter is what weighs on me; having experienced a small taste of the power of the earth's wrath (wildfires, extreme temperatures), the idea of someone I've created being forced to try to survive that is very sobering. It's not the only thing I consider with the question of procreating, but it feels quite intense.
I feel like people really don’t grapple with this enough (a lot of people in the comments here do obviously, I mean in the general population). People say having kids is an act of hope but your child is not an act, they will have to face the consequences of your decision to create them. We have to really consider the suffering they will be forced to endure, even just being witness to suffering is a form of suffering.
Ooooh this was such a good video! I wish i could properly equate it in words but my melted brain cannot communicate how great this was. I love your approach, and fully agree - embracing that uncomfortableness is something we all need to get better at
Exactly! Also, why are we not more empathetic towards children who are not our own? We might see them less growing up, but they are whole wonderful beings
This was really fascinating and I learned so much. I recently (last 5 years) decided that I would like to have children after being a fence sitter for years. This video offers a lot of food for thought and I’ll definitely be checking out your book recs. My childhood was not great by any means, but it was much better than my parents who survived war, genocide, starvation, and so much more atrocity. Even though we have all gone through so SO much, life is better now. I hope the future is better for my kid(s) and for us all. And if it is not…we will find ways to enjoy what we have in this lifetime.
"I wouldn’t feel right bringing kids to a burning planet but y’all do y’all:" And even beyong the climate crisis, we are steadily destroying the Earth's ability to support life in multiple other ways (pollution, killing off biodiversity directly, etc.)
Such a hot topic! Here a 36-year-old - I'm personally really overwhelmed about this whole topic (having children was never a priority for me) because all of the sudden I have this social pressure to make a decision (of having a baby, of course) ASAP while also feeling worried about climate. Thank so much for bringing a new perspective, it feels refreshing. My two cents on this topic: I'm more on the negative side of the spectrum when guessing what the future holds for us. Based on what I see (the people who rule our countries and economies and the poor decisions they make), I feel very much discouraged about granting a future to a potential kid. To me, wealth and giving them material objects is not what makes me feel worried, but the lack of basic resources, such as drinkable water, proper food (not ultra-processed) affordable medicines, clean air, etc. that we might (or might not) face in the future. Again, I struggle a lot with looking at staying positive based and what I see in the present. Thanks for this great video!
You act as if climate conscious parents are guaranteed to have a child that follows their tenets, and that kids of climate-indifferent parents are destined to be just as wasteful and careless.
@Killjoy_Mel Certainly those are possibilities. But I think at least the children will have a head start on living sustainable like knowing how to eat plant based, or being used to drying clothes outside, composting etc. You cant control if your kids turn their back on your teaching but at least they had it and are more likely to take on board some things, even if by accident.
What about the non-human life? Should they have the option of at least maintaining their population numbers? The world doesn't exist just for humans. For me, it's really pitiful to think of children playing with stuffed toys of animals which seem likely to go extinct during their lifetimes. I think the world has adopted this notion that a few poor individuals of a species in a zoo are good enough (or that we might recreate extinct species from their DNA, so no stress), but I digress... Some really interesting points, though I feel the option to "go with the flow, the world is uncontrollable so have a child, it's all the same" line is a little bit unrealistic. Once you have a child, you are surely going to worry for that child immeasurably (or alternatively: deny the climate crisis, as some parents do instead). I find that an unusual way to look at the odds of either outcome. I could either worry until the end of my days in the event the world does not turn out better than I hoped, or I could gain some control over the degree of worrying I will do in my life.
I believe, if we lower human impact on earth, it will benefit all species, though it will need separate efforts. Sometimes climate change solutions and wildlife conservation solutions can go in opposite directions? Planting more trees or keeping the wild meadows intact for the insects? But I think, it would work out, if we could reduce the number of farm animals and therefore the surface needed for their feeding. Then, we could do both. For the ones, that get represented as toys: for less palm oil - less manufactured foods but mostly less fuel, where it’s an additive? For less soy - less farm animals. (At first, I wrote livestock instead of farm animals, but that sounds speciesistic, especially regarding the topic)
@@dottiewi661and the way to do this is not to increase human population and to not continue our hyper consumptive lifestyles, which are not mutually exclusive topics
@@clairbear1234 my comment only addressed OP‘s uneasiness regarding wildlife. Im all with you in the reduction of consumerist habits, but it’s difficult for a society to function without a significant number of young people. The phrase „ok, boomer“ exists, because the generation of people now around 60 comprises of so many people, who will leave their employers to draw on their pension in the next years. And their jobs need to be done and their pensions need to be earned by the working population. Nurses have to care for them in care homes etc. Sure, immigrants can fill that gap to a certain extent but it would be cynical to calculate, for the decades to come, with climate change refugees to be a significant number in the society’s workforce. So we need a number of young people for a state to function.and please let there be among them children of climate conscious people and not only children of climate change deniers or ignorant people… Here in Germany, when asked how they want to combat the current work force shortage (above I was talking about future shortages), if not with immigrants in the workforce, the right wing climate change denying party AfD answered, the Germans should procreate more… so that’s what we are up against…!
An with that I don’t mean that “we” should “rival them in birth rates” but that right wing parties want to bring back traditional role models and use procreation as an argument against immigrants in the workforce.
OMG Leena yes get it! I'm early 30s, don't have / want kinds. People who I did my science degree with decide to have kids and fully change! Like, head in sand "shush with inconvenient truths" change. It makes me so immeasurably sad to loose the environmentally conscious nature of my friends, and I have felt increasingly lonely on this and I'm getting "othered" because of it. I don't think that people should stop having kids, just if they choose to, you have a responsibility to give a crap about their future and not be naïve born of guilt. I wish they would keep fighting and fight for the planet that their kids will grow up on.
Is there a way that you could help them to make the more environmentally friendly choices? For example, could you offer to do laundry every 2-3 days so they could do cloth nappies/daipers instead of disposable? One of the hardest things I've found when I became a parent was the opinions on what I "should be" doing. I think there could be much help to the planet if we step in and help each other with the work, instead of telling people they should be doing even more work than they are. [Sorry if this is long winded/confusing. I think maybe their hearts are there, they just don't have the bandwidth to do more than they currently are] Edit: just got to the part of the video where Leena touches on this 😅
@@JessicasCreativeSpot they don't even want to talk about it, and any offer like this is seen as a criticism of their choice. It isn't and I'm not like that at all, it's just as if in order to have kids they have had to disassociate from their knowledge, which I understand, it's just hard to watch and be left on the side lines over.
I have ti say it, your friends are selfish. They know what theyre kids will suffer through the climate crisis. But not just because they decided to have kids but they decided to bring NEW kids into this world. There are soooo manu kids around the world in shelters that would be overjoyed to be adopted to a loving home. But i stead of helping the raising the kids that already exist they decided to bring new life into the world to suffer along side everyone else
@@CallMeRabbitzUSVIWe'll said. These smug "new age" parents believe their kids won't ever buy a car or fly somewhere on vacation or ever eat meat. Civilisation is a heat engine no matter how many eco gestures you arrive to do.
I loved this video. Really got me thinking. I'm a mom of 2. I went vegan shortly after my second was born. I tell people it's because I want the planet to still be habitable for my children, but also to put myself at ease that the future won't be that bad. Our current meat and dairy consumption isn't sustainable. I believe in the future my kids just won't have the same access to meat that I have now. By going vegan I reassured myself that a world without meat really wouldn't be that bad. Climate anxiety is different as a parent, but it also is motivating for me to try to do something, even if it's small
Thank you for this ❤ I have been seeing a therapist for 2 years after having panic attacks about having children in this world. I am now in a better place, she made me realise that the idea of a future without children is even worse to me, and that my anxiety is further rooted than that. I am climate-conscious, I don't fly anymore, I am vegetarian, and I do my best, and with my fiancé we will do our best to help our children be the best version of themselves. I am really eager to see them react to the beauty of the planet, going freediving with them, and experiencing life in all its beauty and horrors ❤️
This comment is as if I wrote it! This is exactly my story too, after 2 years of therapy and lots and lots of deliberation we took the leap. I hope you have a wonderful journey to parenthood 🤍
@@CallMeRabbitzUSVI I'm 100% for adoption, but it's an equally complex and hard decision. We considered it very seriously and it's still not off the table, but you really reaaally need to be fully conscious and prepared for this, since the origin story of every adoption is trauma and this is not something to underestimate. Which is why the process is also so long and complicated bureaucratically (sure some bureaucracy may be unnecessary, but the checks to the prospective parents are rightly super thorough and strict because it's not for everyone). You have to be prepared for heartbreak and for a child with complex psychological needs, on top of all the other challenges of parenthood. So in short: yes absolutely adoption is the more ethical option for parenthood, but not everyone is ready for it in terms of resources and psychological background.
Lovely video Leena!! As someone in their mid 20s, it starts feeling like such a urgent decision to make. I love how you brought up not having children as a quick way of making yourself believe that you are solving the climate issue - I think I'd rather have one and fight even harder to make real change in other aspects, political and economical.
Absolutely! It's a shame she's so apologist about mentioning veganism though; people SHOULD be vegan, not just for the planet but also for animal welfare issues. But unfortunately that doesn't seem to factor in her topics :/
I thought about these things, but was unfortunate to be raised in a religious household by depression/wwii era parents in small town USA. My underlying instinct to think critically was undermined by the years of brainwashing I endured that taught me that I had no choice but to breed and be subservient. I was also told by my doctor because of ovarian cancer in the family I would likely be barren. So when I was suddenly pregnant at 22, my thoughts and fears went out the window and I ended up having two kids by 25. I love them, but know that the guilt is real as well as the fears about the world they’ll be in. They don’t drive, they thrift clothes and have free/ thrifted furniture in their homes, travel mostly by eco/carbon-free trains (Germany), eat vegetarian/vegan whole and local foods…but, two more people are using resources. It’s true. Had I only understood my choices at that young age, I would have not had them, because it was really hard as a young single mom and starting in the consumerism ridden society in the States. I am with another partner, but decided not to have kids with this one. Also, my ovaries and tubes were removed four years ago.
You're so incredibly lucid and wise, every time I watch one of your videos I'm left with a sense of hope and purpose, a renewed commitment to this world and this life so thank you so much! ❤
The problem lies in that only white people are targeted to be climate conscious, etc. While India, Africa, Middle Eastern, and china keep increasing their population. Wake up!
About the graph being so big and assigning the carbon print of your children and all their children to you, I believe it does make sense because if you don't get children, you only use up resources until you die. If you have children, you create another person that will continue to use resources, so this is a finite use of resources vs. an infinite use of resources. Also, I was thinking about it being selfish to assume that life will not be worth living in for your potential children is in a way god-like yes, if you were to decide this for all future children and installing a population control system, which would I believe inevitably end in an elitist/racist/sexist/... system. But - and I'm playing the devil's advocate here - how can it be a selfish thought with regards to a person that does not yet exist? This is exactly the kind of argument (bear with me please, still the devil's advocate here) that - from my eperience - anti-abortian groups use, that it is selfish of you to refuse your unborn child a life. So as much as that does not make sense to me, because I am very much pro-abortion, so does the reasoning of you personally feeling like this world is not worth it for your non-existing children to live in. In general I just don't think it would be a very bad thing to have more people decide to not have children. There will always be people who will decide to have children, which should always be an option if that is what they want to do.
Exactly this! I cannot really digest any argument that not having kids for a fear for the future might be selfish. A person who doesn't exist cannot have any hold over any woman's life. And I'm not sure why there is sometimes the tone of solving a "depopulation crisis" in talks about the birth rate (not Leena's video) - the UN projects the population to reach >10 billion in 2100. We're definitely not going extinct, guys.
I think people are also unaware of what the future holds. Climate change and ecological overshoot WILL lead to mass starvation and conflict. It’s not like it’s just going to be that the weather is different, so I feel like it’s not that “godlike” to predict the future- the specifics? Yes. The general picture? No
The math in terms of the individuals whose impact’s we’re counting is correct, but projecting using past data is not accurate. I’m in the US, and although my country is definitely one of the worst in terms of per capita CO2 emissions, we have been steadily decreasing since the 70’s. My children will have a much smaller carbon footprint than me, and theirs them. I agree that I don’t think it’s selfish to predict what a currently non-existent human might feel, but I do think it’s presumptuous/playing god. From that angle it looks more like the pro choice position. A person who doesn’t exist doesn’t exist-we simply can’t know what their thoughts or feelings on being alive will be. But creating a cutoff, like, if there is a certain amount of suffering, no human would think life was worth living, seems incredibly dangerous to me. Overall I appreciate your measured opinion :)
I love all of your videos, but this one might just be my favorite, even after years of being a subscriber! You did such a lovely job with this sensitive topic. Thanks as always Leena.
China is currently going through a crisis of having an underwhelming amount of young people due to having the "one child policy" in the past. Japan has similar issues due to the lack of the work-life balance in their culture. Young people are necessary for continuing society, and to take care of the growing elder population (as healthcare workers, among other things- not necessarily children taking care of their kids). So even though it *might* be a little selfish to have kids in an environmental sense, know that if mass amounts of people stop having children has adverse affects as well. That is, if you want to have them of course. I wouldn't want to force something like having kids on someone if they didn't want to, as I'm child free by choice as well.
Yes.. I came here to say something similar. I majored in Geoscience and we learn about population demographics. Places like South Korea, China, Italy and Japan have inverted population pyramids and are at risk of population collapse in the near future. Which comes with a whole set of challenges not covered in this video.
Maybe I just don’t want children and I’m tired of people calling me selfish for not wanting children… so I lie and say I don’t want children due to the climate crisis. I’ve never met a childless woman who actually don’t want children due to climate change. We just don’t want children and wish people would stop bothering us
Having just hit my 2nd trimester, I've been really wrestling with this. But I know that this is the right choice for me; it's a deep calling and I know it's something I want to do while not shying from reality. Thank you for making this video
The thing I'm most concerned about with having kids is their safety and security. Carbon footprint feels like a way for corporations to make me feel guilty for their choices. There's definitely wallet voting I can do but I am not the problem
I’m a childfree antinatalist I’m glad I had no kids. I couldn’t have been comfortable with my offspring hurting , suffering, struggling, bleeding , sweating or crying. There is no moral reason to have a child and doing so is premeditated murder.
This is unrelated to anything but I was just thinking about your bathtub busking series a few days ago. I liked that so much back in the day, it brought me to this channel and the vibes were immaculate.
Lots of rich people built bunkers in NZ during COVID, which has become a bit of a jux-aposition to Kiwi culture which is very egalitarian in nature. I have a feeling that if an apocalypse comes all those rich people have done is guarantee that they'll be the first ones ON the menu 😅
Precisely. What exactly makes these rich people think that a society that is based on egalitarianism, community and sharing, is going to serve them, or tolerate their resource hoarding?
Loved how you explained how poorly the graph was created - great insight! Thank you as always for the thoughtful and kind video! Thanks gumption club too!
I've been through feeling deep despair about my son's future, not in a he-wont-have-lots-of-material-goods type of way, more in a what horrendous hellscape will he live in with food shortages, social unrest, collapse of society etc. I will say on the flip side, since having a child I do find Im much more able to put the crisis to the back of my mind just because they fill up your brain so much, and although I would say we have remained true to our green morality, realistically you do get pulled into the less green culture around child rearing and stuff and holidays etc to some degree, which I found much easier to shun when I didnt have a kid. Enjoyed your thoughtful exploration of this topic!
A lot of people just have kids because they found out they were pregnant after having unprotected sex and the person they’re with is “good enough.” It’s not that radical or optimistic to them. They’re just on autopilot and they don’t even think about going off.
This is one of the most important videos I've ever watched on this platform. I really needed to hear all of this. Thank you Leena for your fearless honesty, radical optimism, and endless pursuit of discovery. So grateful for your work 💌
The people who ask this question are the best to have kids (if they want them). Teach your kids how to look after the environment and to care. One good person wont drain resources, in fact they might give back and make a change. And show its possible to raise your kids in a sustainable way and show them how to live a sustainable life.
I think this is the first time I can understand why some people choose to have children, this video truly made me see a perspective I never thought about before, I'm kind of mind blown right now
Just to pick out one tiny throwaway line and fixate on it: Decent vegan lasagne: Chop vegetables you like into roughly 1cm2 pieces (I use a lot of root vegetables for this, onions, carrots, parsnips, ect) roast them in oil, preferred herbs and balsamic vinegar. Combine with tomato sauce Layer between pasta sheets, alternating with a bechamel sauce with added spinach and nutritional yeast. Finish with a layer of the bechamel without spinach. If there is a vegan cheese you like, top with this now Cook in oven until pasta sheets are cooked through. A meat eater friend of mine said this was the best lasagna she had ever had.
Really thoughtful points! I also very much appreciate you mentioning foster care, which isn't discussed positively very often in secular discourse in the US very often. I'd also like to note though that the options are not (a) reform foster and adoption systems, or (b) adopt. We also need people to become foster parents! No the system isn't perfect, but even if reforms are made, we will need foster families! There will always be kids who need a safe and loving place away from their own homes for a period of time, and there is a massive foster home shortage today.
It was really nice to hear the way you expressed that part of the decision to have a child is what their experience will be. This is something that I feel people misunderstand when I say I don't want kids.
Oof…making me think about my views. I think I have just been observing so much waste and excess and disconnect with the climate issues, that I feel like people are not actually making any of the changes, so I guess I have felt like if some people don’t have kids, it will possibly offset those who have kids and make no accommodations or changes with climate change in mind. I live in the Midwest in the US and in my area, there doesn’t seem to be much concern, so then I think about larger ways a person can help to offset. This video was very thoughtful and I appreciate the perspective.
I am child free by choice (for the simple reason that i have No desire for children) and the Idea of Not having children because they could "drain the planets resources" is deeply disturbing to me. It's basically eugenics. Im German, so when people try to Dress what they call Population Control in pretty Terms, my Alarm bells Go Off. If you as a Person decided that you dont want Kids because of their effect on the Planet... Thats your choice. But this Kind of rethoric rarely Sticks to individual choice and very quickly seeps into Public Policy, where it gets called Population Control, but it's really Just eugenics. And then people get to decide who is a drain and who isnt. We Had this Type of stuff before and it NEVER ends Well. So If you dont want Kids. By all means, dont have them. But PLEASE think about your motivations for Not having them and what their implications are. Also: it's fine to Just Not want Kids. Not everything has to be that deep.
I'd expect a German to actually know, what eugenics is. Eugenics is selective mating based on desirable traits, and weeding out undesirable traits. Eugenics is for "improving the genetic quality of a certain human population". Choosing to not have children at all to reduce the load on strained resources is NOT eugenics, it has nothing to do at all with breeding for or breeding out arbitrary traits. By your logic, animal populations that kill or eat their young due to lack of resources in their ecosystem is also eugenics, but it doesn't result in offspring bred for selected qualities, does it. It results in no offspring at all until resources available are optimal for rearing offspring in a way that doesn't drastically lower the quality of their own, as well as the already existing population's lives. Literally all living creatures practice population control based on available resources. The fact is: a child takes up a lot of resources, and is a massive source of pollution (because most people simply aren't going to opt for doing everything from scratch, including reusable cloth diapers you have to clean and boil every time). It's not eugenics to choose to forgo having that child in order to ensure less of a load on currently available resources. It's just not.
As a person who has decided not to produce children with the environmental impact being one of the considerations, this video has not convinced me to change my stance. -the resources consumed by my future children are dependent upon my decision to have them -as I am a privileged person in the US, my child's consumption would be similar to others in the US -I have the privilege to make this decision -other people are producing enough children that the population of the planet will continue to increase regardless of my individual decision -the impact of government and companies is greater than mine but that doesn't mean that it's worthless for me to do what I can (similar to eating less meat) -I don't tell others what choices to make I watched this video hoping to hear persuasive arguments, since I like to have my preconceived notions challenged, but maybe I'll have to wait for another video!
45, no kids by choice. Mostly for the world I think is coming /is already here. That will not stop me, in fact is WHY I WILL try to be a "good ancestor" I like quote "How do we love all children, of all species, of all time?" William McDonough "We borrow the present from the future" Or the book "the good ancestor"
11:23 appreciate you sharing this kind of historic context. From what I tend to hear from conservative / climate-crisis deniers in my family, this level of fear focus is largely why they dismiss climate concerns now (they think it's all overblown). It's so tricky to communicate the serious reality to folks without them going into shutdown mode because they're unwilling to accept the idea of personal changes for something they say they don't see the effects of. On the racist note: I wondered the other day how those folks in my life would feel if it was a country other than the U.S. accelerating environmental damage. Like, if it was China's consumer culture primarily ruining American's climate trajectory, would the climate crisis deniers still be so stubborn about there being no need to change? I suspect they'd change their tune because all of a sudden it's not all about their benefit and control.
Hey Leena. I would love to see a video on our political parties in the UK in relation to the climate crisis as our election approaches, not really a “who should I vote for” but rather the parties’ stances and goals on improving the situation and if their actions in the past have reflected that. It’s a very important factor for me when it comes to voting and I have tried to do my own research but to be honest I’m not sure where to look, I find I can digest and understand info better when you lay it out the way you do in your videos. Just an idea, thanks! 🖤
I'm happily childfree like you, but I appreciate your nuanced approach to this subject! And yes, even though undoubtedly one more person born into a wester, consumerist society will put an additional burden on our resources, there is no question that the REAL problem here is the wealth-hoarding that's being done by the ultra-wealthy. Their refusal to part with *some* of their money, which we could use to solve many of these problems, should enrage everyone, and we should be joining together to do something about it. Also, eat more plant-based meals, folks.
love this! i have a 20 month old and am having a second baby in october. we're raising them both vegan and trying to be as environmentally conscious as possible, which definitely makes me feel a bit better about my unstoppable desire to be a mother😅 always love these videos, they feel like they offer such nuance on these often difficult conversations!
I procrastinated watching this video due to the hyperbolic title, perhaps expecting it to advocate for being child-free because we're all doomed anyway - but of course your analysis was nuanced and focused on the positives! Thank you for this video, I'm glad I'm part of the Gumption Club :)
That said I totally agree that population control is often fascist and eugenicist. It’s more that my child didn’t ask to be born in this world and I can’t stand to imagine her future suffering.
Have only just started, but a huge part of my decision to start a family was drawing up a plan on how to do the best I possibly can for the planet every day. I have found that my hardest parenting struggle has been how disconnected from the planet most parents are, not to mention schools.
I will forever joke that I am the best parent I can be because my nonexistent child will never take part in the water wars. My fellow nulliparous folks seem to have a resounding 'I just don't want to' reasoning that we all then feel the need to further embellish upon to make it more palatable to others that won't understand it. Perhaps we have internalized this need for a "good" reason, a "good why,*" that has been ruminated to death to justify that decision. When the reality is, choosing to grow ones family in that particular way is probably where one should really be exploring and understanding the why behind that decision. ETA* like climate crisis
Good joke. My feeling too. That I care too much about my future children to have them. I think most people who are already parents hate to be reminded of the probable difficulties their children will face, so I guess "I just don't want to" is the more digestible version of what I'm thinking.
What a beautiful and nuanced video! I am so grateful. Thank you for this wonderful video. I've been waiting (and quietly dreading a little) for this video for a long time. I was close to not watching it. I'm SO grateful I watched it. THANK YOU! ❤
As a person with four kids (though all of them are older, almost adults), I might have a different perspective here. Granted, my kids are older and my thoughts on this may not be the same if I were making the decision in today's world. I really feel like there are a lot of parts of this that aren't being discussed. For example, one that was somewhat touched on here, how will you be raising your children? There are plenty of people in the world that raise their children to follow the majority expectation. However, I've worked hard to raise my children to be the change I want to see in the world. Once they reach the age of majority, I can only hope I've raised them well enough to make wise decisions for the future of the earth. Taking into consideration that a majority of my friends and coworkers do not have children and do not plan to have children, I am in the minority for my community. If most people in my community are not having children, I shouldn't feel guilty about having children and adding to overpopulation. Raising children doesn't have to come with a huge "carbon footprint." Buy children's items and clothing second hand, when possible. For safety reasons, that's not always an option, like car seats, but for many other items it can be. Also be realistic for what's necessary for a child. They need clothing, a place to sleep, and food, but my children's favorite toys were sticks and rocks in the back yard. Those items you do need or want are easily found second hand in most cases. Someone will inherit the earth when we are all gone, and that's something to consider too. If the only people having children are those who are uneducated or simply are unwilling to change, they're going to raise their children with the same bad practices they're practicing today. Those children can be educated, but it isn't going to hurt to balance the scales by adding a few children who are raised already aware of what we're doing to the planet, and making better choices. If someone actively wants children in their future, they can argue that they're doing a service for the world for balancing out all the children who are raised without that awareness and social responsibility. My last piece, outsiders don't always know what changes a person is making to be more aware of their relationship with the planet, or sometimes they don't understand. I keep thinking back to a friend who wanted me to convert me to her more eco-friendly lifestyle, but when we talked, she found out I was already doing a lot of the things she wanted to suggest, and I had a few suggestions she'd never heard of. In fairness, she had a couple ideas I hadn't come across either, so it was a good discussion, but she assumed I was living a standard, American consumer lifestyle, and had no way of knowing I'd made so many changes in my life, some of them long before I met her, because I live a very private life. I guess what I'm saying is there's nothing wrong with feeling like kids are an important part of your future, but there's also nothing wrong with knowing kids aren't right for you. And if you're on the fence, there's nothing wrong with taking a nice long time to figure it out.
Another good video but throwing adoptees under the bus. Leena, seriously, educate yourself about adoption trauma and forced historical adoptions. As well as, in the US, adoption agencies literally make money off of people "too poor" to keep their children. International adoption can be and is mostly human trafficking. The thing we need to change is not "making adoption easier". It is as you said, providing access to free birth control and adoption. And then supporting pregnant people in a crisis so that their only "choice" isn't to permanently be cut off from their child. Nobody is owed a child.
I was eight when my mother asked if she‘d been too strict towards my brother who had had one of his supermarket tantrums. I‘m supposed to have said: „I could never be as loving as you“. I date this incident as the cornerstone of my decision that I would not be suited to deal with children. I like them a lot, but 24/7? never! I have been doing everything else right. Voted for the greens since 1980, never had a car, and although I did fly without even thinking about it right into the early 2000s and am still doing it now very occasionally. 10 years ago I went full-arsed vegan. I would beg to disagree when it comes to letting the food industry make my food almost as unhealthy as non-vegan food. The food industry will always want to give us hyper-palatability (lots of fat and salt). We have to control what goes into our mouths if we want to be truly healthy. Does it show that I went vegan for my own health, because I did not want to eat lots of pills with side-effects that don‘t heal me, just keep me alive for longer? I‘m very happy that it is also good for the planet and stops horrible suffering of billions of sentient beings (if more people did it). I loved your arguments.
Well this has been a harrowing video to watch for my internal unconscious bias😅 thank you for making this leena! Gonna have to sit in silence and do some Thinking (I'm still a person that doesnt want kids but oh my god my pov has been shaken like a Polaroid picture)
Isn't it AMAZING when you are certain about something and then you get more info that triggers you to re-assess it all? every now and then I remind myself "there is something I believe RIGHT now which I am wrong about" such a strange and wonderful feeling
Thank you Leena! This video is sooo good and came at a really good point in time for me. And I‘m sure I will send it to friends in the future, when the question comes up. This is the first video since I joined the grumption club and it made it very clear for me that joining was long overdue.
A hundred years ago, my family went through a horrific hunger in the south of Russia. It was triggered by poor crops several years in a row, but what killed people was the government. Government took everything to the big cities, leaving villages to die. So yeah, scarcity of food may happen, but it doesn't kill you, your government does.
Uncomfortable details too many people prefer to ignore or even forget. A similar thing happened in Ireland, with the potato blight destroying crops, during the seven years from 1845 to 1852. An Gorta Mor, or "as an Drochshoal", a big contributor to the horror was policy faillure. Then we have the three years from 1959 to 1961 in a very big country, also driven by policy faillure. Then Ethiopia, an ongoing situation that is a combination of policy faillure and malice. Then the three years from 1967 to 1970 in long forgotten Biafra, which was deliberate, pure malice, using famine as a w__pon of mass d_str_ction and it worked.
I'm happy that I don't want kids and don't need to think about all that. But yeah if I wanted children I would definitely be worried about their future, and not only the climate crisis (that may bring floods, famines, unbearable heat waves, shortage of clean water and food etc) but also just with current political situation in the world, wars, rising divide between classes, lack of job security etc. I'm 30 an cannot afford currently to buy a house. So realistically having children now wouldn't improve my situation but make it worse.
Such an incredible video with really interesting points; I'll be sure to share it amongst my friends! I really appreciate that you looked at both sides of the question, since people are pretty manichean about this topic (I, for one, am).
Watching this weeks aftet it was posted, so not exactly part of that conversation. But - thank you. Your conclusion is tremendous, Leena, which should not surprise me. Your research and analysis is *always* better than I imagine at the beginning of any video essay or commentary. And this one is such a life affirming humane encouragement. Many appreciations😮
I got ill at 35 and now I will never have kids. Just have kids if you want them. I really regret not prioritising kids instead of a career I'm too ill for now anyway
Wow lordy this was an emotional one. I can’t remember where I heard this, but I heard a great thing from an Indigenous American writer about how for some groups in the world, the apocalypse has already been and come. I think for those groups of people in particular, having and raising children must be even more radical and optimistic, cos they’re defying the apocalypse and creating the Hopeful Future. Thanks for this vid
edit: I *REALLY* appreciate the non-hateful way you ate talking about this topic as a child-free-by-choice person. I'm often met with distain and disgust and people who believe I'm selfish just by having one (again, not by choice) or who act morally suporior and down-right antinatalist and anti-chidren. I can't tell you how many dirty looks I get from people just by taking up space as someone with a child, and as a *MOTHER* because for some reason people *REALLY* hate mothers kinda late for me; for a VERY long time, I was very child-free-by-choice and I became a parent *not by choice* . it was a huge adjustment and I made a *LOT* of sacrifices (bodily, lifestyle, sanity, I an a stay-at-home-mom due to chronic illness) but I've never known a deeper love and frankly I wouldn't have it any other way- but I think I'm a one and done. I do NOT want any more because it has been ROUGH in every sense of the word an in every single way. it's just not smart 🤷🏽♀ as for what we eat, personally I can't have dairy and gluten nor can I have red meat too often at all because my stomach is broken. my daughter needs the dairy tho, but also won't really eat beef, mainly just fruits, veggies, and chicken and salmon. we also don't consume too many processed foods other than snacks here and there and my gluten free stuff and we NEVER eat out. I cook all of our meals from scratch. I'm not perfect but I *PROMISE* I'm trying
Im indigenous american. Thank you for quoting brading sweetgrass. In my life i was honored to have many aunties, uncles, grandparenfs, sisters, brothers who are not of my own blood but of the same traditions or spirit. The saying "it takes a village" is true when it comes to raising children. We rely on our family, friends and community resources for childcare and development. I myself work in the childcare industry as an accounts & state applications person. I have no children of my own nor can i have them due to health issues, but i have been an auntie to many of my communities children. Thats my legacy
Your message is SO important for so many reasons. I truly hate that so many modern societies have given up on the idea of community and the idea of "it takes a village". We need all the chosen aunties, uncles, grandparents and siblings we can get if we are to raise our children in healthy and conscientious environments and of course your role as auntie is just as important as any parent's.
Your words are of truth and love. I have a daughter, she is lucky to have aunts, uncles, cousins that are both blood relatives and others that may not share genes with her but which have been part of her life from the beginning and care deeply about her. We are lucky to have a village that supports her and us as parents 😊
Takeaway: don’t have a cow, have a kid
"There are parts of the population that are growing without the consent of the people's bodies that are being used" is such a f*cking mic drop and such a concise way of explaining my ineloquent rage feelings.
My partner and I chose to never have children long before we met, and hearing people talk about population control i.e. aspects of eco-fascism is deeply disturbing. Last week I flew across the country to help my brother and sister-in-law with their newborn baby despite being flexitarian and trying to create as little waste as possible in my own life. And they are heartwarmingly excellent new parents (just exhausted and scared of course), and I am a part of their lives so I’m a part of this kid’s life too. We’re eager to save the planet for future humans, so if not them, if not for this kid as well, then who are we doing it for?
👏 👏 👏
All the other animals and other life forms. Humans aren't the be all and end all.
As someone who doesn't want/never wanted kids but who has a beloved baby nephew who just turned 1, this made me a little bit emotional 🥹❤️
Yes but what are we doing to make it a better world?
You are saving no one. White people who are the educated ones don't want to have children in 3rd world people having 10 or more children. Use your brain for once!. This is why you have a lot of Muslims in Great Britain. It's almost unrecognizable. Wake up
As someone living in a generation where most of us will never afford a house and probably will never get to actually retire, not to mention what we are and will go through due to the climate crisis, I've always found it really difficult to accept my friends' choice to have children even in the relatively safe country I live in. So thank you for having this discussion as it's not something I could bring up with them but did desperately want to hear another side.
I do think their having kids is a huge act of optimism, but the people I know having them don't act like it. They're not making lifestyle changes, and they talk about the future in an "it's only going to get worse" kind of way and I have to bite my tongue to stop myself asking why they brought kids into this world if they thought that's what the future would be like.
Thank you for this comment, you took a lot of really important words out of my mouth that I don't think I would have articulated half as well.
I loved hearing Leena's thoughts on this but I can't say I share her optimism; I worry enough about my own future already, and obtaining a political sciences degree has only made me more trepidatious. Colonialism is still live and well, huge areas around the world are rapidly becoming unliveable while we are already failing the refugees that exist, and billionaires are literally building bunkers. Even just knowing that hotter, dryer summers are making tics and fleas more widespread makes me worry about how I will keep my dog comfortable throughout his life.
It absolutely infuriates me to know how many parents continue to eat meat and pretend that nothing is happening, and I fear so much for the kids even just ten years younger than I am :/
Thank you for this comment - I so agree. It is a huge act of optimism (and I don't believe it's in any form selfish not to share that optimism). I feel that once you have a children, it's almost becomes in your "interest" to deny reality, to some extent (to avoid daily painful thoughts). I'm the kind of person who would instead worry for the rest of their lives for their child, not "go with the flow" of our uncontrollable future. I think the amount of worry a child brings, even in "normal" times, cannot be underestimated.
Thank you for this, you said it far better than I ever could! I loved this video and found it so helpful to hear another perspective, but it's also comforting to see those with an opinion nearer to my own in the comments too! Lots to think about and reflect on, I'm grateful to know that I'm not alone.
As someone with a child (3 year old) I do totally understand your view. I worry about not being able to leave behind a house for him to sell or much in the way of savings as we rent and will probably do so until we die. I worry about what the world will look like in 30 years and how much it will have changed. However I do think this isn't a new worry, parents for generations have had these same concerns and people haven't stopped having children when there have been wars, terrorism and recessions. The biological urge to have children is so powerful for some people that the world would have to be on fire before they stopped. We also still need people to have children to keep the economy going and to care for the elderly and sick. My partner and I only have one and will likely only have one and we also try to live as sustainability as we can and try to pass that onto our son. The way I see it, people are going to keep having children regardless. So I may as I well have one as well and try and raise him to be a decent human being.
The answer is they didn't question, they did it because it's normal and because they wanted to. The world is not getting better soon. Your friends do not care about that though.
Climate change is one of my concerns with having children, but my main concerns are cost and lack of societal support. My boyfriend and I both say we want kids but we’re also both increasingly unsure about it because of this. We’re both neurodivergent and quickly realizing that we are not capable of meeting all the demands that society places on us. We don’t live near family so unless we are able to create a strong community, then I’m afraid we won’t have the support we need and won’t be able to cope with having children.
I share almost this exact opinion/situation ❤️ it's nice to know I'm not alone in it
seconding your comment to a T. My boyfriend has PTSD/autism/Depression and I have ADHD/Autism/GAD. We often say “if the economy gets better, then we consider kids.” Because only then we know we’ll have our needs met, and subsequently have our kid’s needs met. My family is overseas, we only have his two moms nearby. I’m struggling to create a business, he’s struggling with his grueling hours. As much as I idealized the idea of being a mom growing up, the battle is so uphill. And then bringing children into a late stage capitalistic climate-affected United States or hurricane-riddled Caribbean island where I’m from… Too much
You still can do it. Your fam have done it. Have babies and educate them to practice zero waste.
I cried during this video, I am a forest school teacher and deeply want a child and this has made me feel so emotional and also hopeful. I wish that everyone could separate the politicized stats from life
Question: Why not adopt? There are plenty of kids that want a loving home
If you feel your life is so empty that you need to fill it with presence of kids you should adopt! There's nearly 500k in the foster care system in the US alone.
I do have a child and am pregnant with a second. I think that having a child is a RADICAL act of optimism as a person who is informed about the world right now. My care about the world is so deeply connected to my love for my children. I care about the world. I care about my children. And I will work even harder to try to make sure the world exists in a good way for them.
So beautifully said ❤🙌
beautiful, optimistically BRAVE❤
I don't see how it's radical when it's something the majority of the population does... Also seems more delusional than optimistic to believe your child's life will be better than your own.
@@dikhed1983 my grandmother only went to school until age nine before she was pulled out to WORK. my mother only had one year of college before she had to help her family with cash and labor. my experience was VASTLY different; and I was lucky enough to finish two degrees. hoping your child's life is Better is NOT delusional. people with children and grandchildren have an INVESTMENT in the future that I, as a childless person cannot fathom.
This is going to sound harsh but your feelings about the future don’t mean much. Being optimistic or not doesn’t change the trajectory we are on.
I recently read the Conceivable Future which is ALL about this topic and did similar to you in the sense of framing it about systemic issues rather than giving a clear-cut answer. We should be asking ourselves WHY we have to ask ourselves this question in the first place. I've had a lot of worries about becoming a parent in the future but really, I just come back to this each time: I will simply not allow Shell, BP, Exxon, Total etc to stop me from having a child. It's as simple as that. They do not deserve to strip away that right - and they also do not deserve to strip away that right through environmental racism and the harming of people's health.
That anvil drop sound effect had me looking around while driving for the source of the very frightening noise before I realised it was the video.
I feel like that graph goes to show how many people just don't see children (who eventually become adults) as their own individuals, and are still beholden to their parents no matter how old they get
I have 3 kids, and we have made very conscious choices about how to raise them. For example, we have one car (as of May, bought from a local family) and prioritize busing and/or walking when possible. We cloth diaper, breastfeed, and don’t buy baby food or purées. 90% of the clothes, toys, and gear in our home are secondhand, and most, if not all, will be passed down to other kiddos when our kids are grown.
I desperately wanted children, and felt conflicted, but the truth is that if people who care deeply about the planet stop having babies, we are also giving up the chance to raise a generation of children who will be ambassadors for this earth that we love so deeply. My 5 year old loves gardening and tending to “his” plants in his forest school. My 3 year old is the one who makes sure we always have a canvas bag when we go to the store and picks up trash when we go for walks. My youngest is a baby, and is wearing clothes that his brothers, cousins, and friends have worn before him, and playing with toys that were passed down or made lovingly by hand. I realize that I’m super biased, but I think that the world is a better place with them in it ❤
This sounds like a beautiful and empathy-inducing childhood! :)
You know that having a kid is the worst things you can do for the environment right? It does not matter at all if you only have one car. People without kids can have 10 cars and they will do more for the environment than you by not having kids. The mental gymnastics people like you do to justify their own selfish decision to have kids is ridiculous.
Don't kid yourself with all these cutesy green eco gestures. You still added 3 resource-consuming 1st world human beings onto this massively overstressed and polluted planet.
This was a moving video Leena! As someone who works in the climate advocacy space but also is a person who has always known and very much wanted to be a mom, the tension is very real around this question but I think your point about how not wanting them to grow up in a climate ravaged world is inherently a bit of a selfish thought is so true! And I also think children are a hope for the future, and a promise to yourself that things may better in the future than they are now
As a mom that cares very much about the environment and the future of our planet, your comment made me smile!
So if instead of people reducing babies, we reduce cows? What a thought.
I mean if the cows want to consensually reproduce out of pure lust I’m not going to stop them, but that is sadly the opposite of what is happening 😅
consuming less meat is the best thing you can do for the environment
Lol. The polution created and the resources taken by one person is far much greater than a cow. No vegetarianism/veganism can beat that. So having less human in this planet has a much better impact for the environment than reducing cows. 😂
@@thinkofteddy do both
Doesn't solve the problem with water shortage, sorry. There's too many people on this goddamn planet.
"Would I want to bring a child, who I would dearly love, into this world knowing about the major collapse that would happen in their lifetime?"
That was the question I asked myself 3 decades ago. I was lucky. Having worked for a professor about 45 years ago measuring CO2 I had an early heads up on the consequences of CO2 buildup. I said no, and got the vasectomy.
Yes, as I age, it's hard to not have any children to help me from time to time, but I'm sure I made the right decision. It's a personal decision for everyone. No one should tell anyone else how many children to have I don't think. For what it's worth many my age who do have children, rarely see their children. My girl friend has been busy trying to protect her two children, something that is at best temporary, and uncertain, as there is actually no place on earth to hide from it.
So like you Lenna, I'm child-free by choice! My hat goes off to you for addressing this important issue! 🙂
I’m happy to hear your story and I am in the same boat but a woman and a bit younger
Thanks for sharing your perspective as someone older who made the choice to be child-free.
I'm mid-30s and in the last few years made the choice to be child-free. I think I have always been leaning towards this decision for the same questions you asked. But for many years I didn't feel brave enough to commit to that decision. Being surrounded by the narrative of motherhood being the best experience has not helped.
So it's refreshing and heartening to hear from someone who's lived through that decision.
As a person who never planned to have kids, and then became a parent (we got full custody of my husband's child), I would have to say the number one thing I would consider before having a child is what kind of community you are in and how they will be there for your child. Raising a child in an intentional way is very hard, and it's so important to have support from family, friends, the community around you. Building community and reducing individualism is an essential climate action, and I think also one of the best things you can do for your future child. Also realize the climate crisis' biggest impact on your future children, at first, will be the mental health toll upon them when they are told they have no future. We spend a lot of time with our tween talking about climate solutions, and how the future is going to be what they help create.
Early 30s, always wanted children and are trying to conceive currently. As an environmentalist this has always been top of mind. I do not think the answer to the climate crisis is a 'children of men' situation, and I am facing the climate crisis too and not for one second has it ever made me wish I wasn't born. I mourn and hurt deeply for what has been lost and what we will lose, but cannot wish that I never knew the wonders of the earth and the universe.
I have a daughter and I worry so much about her future re: the climate crisis. It’s really stressful. I love my daughter more than anything and would never take back my choice to have her but I 10000% support people who choose to stay child-free.
I have, from as young a six, insisted I will adopt. I didn't want the faff of having to have a partner to be able to have children. I've been challenged on this quite a bit by friends and it's a hot topic between me and my current partner (who is very much in favour of biological children). The climate crisis has only strengthened my resolve to not procreate when there are plenty of children who already need homes and love. I hate that it's considered a second, third, or lesser option.
❤️
You’re not alone, I think the same. ❤❤
@@chelseashurmantine8153 solidarity!! 🙌
I would look into the adoption system and talk to some adoptees before you adopt. There are definitely ethical ways to adopt! But there are a lot of unethical ways, too.
I've always had this strong feeling that instead of biological children, a child will find me when I'm a bit older and I will adopt them. I do not want to bear children myself, but I do hope that this child will come into my life when they need it the most. Maybe it will happen some day :)
As a mother of two, I feel like you approached this topic in such a well thought out, nuanced, and caring way. Thank you!
I’ve struggled with this idea before not just because of the climate but because of living in America and all of our horrible backpedaling on women’s rights.
However, my sibling had this nugget of wisdom that has stuck with me. They told me “if you allow a tyrannical government to stop you from freely living your life then you have given them exactly what they want.” Having children is radical optimism but this world won’t get any better if there’s nobody left to help it.
I assure you, the world isn't going to stop having babies to the point of the extinction of species any time soon. It's just not going to happen, people will always have sex and keep having children, whether they really want to or not, or whether they even have a choice. We're not going to run out of humans any time soon, I really, really don't think you can comprehend just how huge the number '8 billion' really is.
What Backpedaling on women's right?. 🤔 the right to kill your offspring?. What exactly.
23:29 it’s probably out of scope for this video, but what’s not really being addressed is the non-human world that is being destroyed more and more with each generation. Just the act of living requires resources and the planet is not just here to support human life. Yes, we do need to use the resources we still have much more carefully than we do now, but there will be a point where everything will be used up and the human population just cannot grow anymore. The analogy with the ice sculpture does not take into account that the more people witnessing the ice melt, the faster it will disappear.
Amen, wildlife has reduced by 70% since 1970. Many fish species numbers are down 90% and our human impact is causing marine heatwaves which further kills the ocean. Microplastics in everything. It’s so beyond fixable, it’s not just “weird weather in the future”
@@clairbear1234 Exactly this. I find it a bit bizarre to only think of it in terms of 'less material goods' and 'weird weather', considering the actual tipping points we are reaching and how one might infer this will destabilise society.
This is such a great essay, I feel like I need to bookmark this to send to friends. I’ve tried to make many of these arguments before but could never collate them as elegantly as you did!
24:02: I think there's an important difference between the sadness of witnessing what's disappearing vs the absolute suffering humans will physically encounter with the planet's slow (to us) death. The latter is what weighs on me; having experienced a small taste of the power of the earth's wrath (wildfires, extreme temperatures), the idea of someone I've created being forced to try to survive that is very sobering. It's not the only thing I consider with the question of procreating, but it feels quite intense.
I feel like people really don’t grapple with this enough (a lot of people in the comments here do obviously, I mean in the general population). People say having kids is an act of hope but your child is not an act, they will have to face the consequences of your decision to create them. We have to really consider the suffering they will be forced to endure, even just being witness to suffering is a form of suffering.
@@CampingforCool41This! Habing kids thst you know will suffer is not a good reason to have kids. Quite the opposite
Ooooh this was such a good video! I wish i could properly equate it in words but my melted brain cannot communicate how great this was. I love your approach, and fully agree - embracing that uncomfortableness is something we all need to get better at
Exactly! Also, why are we not more empathetic towards children who are not our own? We might see them less growing up, but they are whole wonderful beings
This was really fascinating and I learned so much. I recently (last 5 years) decided that I would like to have children after being a fence sitter for years. This video offers a lot of food for thought and I’ll definitely be checking out your book recs. My childhood was not great by any means, but it was much better than my parents who survived war, genocide, starvation, and so much more atrocity. Even though we have all gone through so SO much, life is better now. I hope the future is better for my kid(s) and for us all. And if it is not…we will find ways to enjoy what we have in this lifetime.
I wouldn’t feel right bringing kids to a burning planet but y’all do y’all
"I wouldn’t feel right bringing kids to a burning planet but y’all do y’all:" And even beyong the climate crisis, we are steadily destroying the Earth's ability to support life in multiple other ways (pollution, killing off biodiversity directly, etc.)
Such a hot topic! Here a 36-year-old - I'm personally really overwhelmed about this whole topic (having children was never a priority for me) because all of the sudden I have this social pressure to make a decision (of having a baby, of course) ASAP while also feeling worried about climate. Thank so much for bringing a new perspective, it feels refreshing. My two cents on this topic: I'm more on the negative side of the spectrum when guessing what the future holds for us. Based on what I see (the people who rule our countries and economies and the poor decisions they make), I feel very much discouraged about granting a future to a potential kid. To me, wealth and giving them material objects is not what makes me feel worried, but the lack of basic resources, such as drinkable water, proper food (not ultra-processed) affordable medicines, clean air, etc. that we might (or might not) face in the future. Again, I struggle a lot with looking at staying positive based and what I see in the present.
Thanks for this great video!
My cat did NOT like the wheeeeee sound effect before the anvil 😂
I'm afraid of what the future might be like if only those who do not care about the climate crisis are having kids
You act as if climate conscious parents are guaranteed to have a child that follows their tenets, and that kids of climate-indifferent parents are destined to be just as wasteful and careless.
@Killjoy_Mel Certainly those are possibilities. But I think at least the children will have a head start on living sustainable like knowing how to eat plant based, or being used to drying clothes outside, composting etc. You cant control if your kids turn their back on your teaching but at least they had it and are more likely to take on board some things, even if by accident.
What about the non-human life? Should they have the option of at least maintaining their population numbers? The world doesn't exist just for humans. For me, it's really pitiful to think of children playing with stuffed toys of animals which seem likely to go extinct during their lifetimes. I think the world has adopted this notion that a few poor individuals of a species in a zoo are good enough (or that we might recreate extinct species from their DNA, so no stress), but I digress...
Some really interesting points, though I feel the option to "go with the flow, the world is uncontrollable so have a child, it's all the same" line is a little bit unrealistic. Once you have a child, you are surely going to worry for that child immeasurably (or alternatively: deny the climate crisis, as some parents do instead). I find that an unusual way to look at the odds of either outcome. I could either worry until the end of my days in the event the world does not turn out better than I hoped, or I could gain some control over the degree of worrying I will do in my life.
I believe, if we lower human impact on earth, it will benefit all species, though it will need separate efforts. Sometimes climate change solutions and wildlife conservation solutions can go in opposite directions? Planting more trees or keeping the wild meadows intact for the insects? But I think, it would work out, if we could reduce the number of farm animals and therefore the surface needed for their feeding. Then, we could do both. For the ones, that get represented as toys: for less palm oil - less manufactured foods but mostly less fuel, where it’s an additive? For less soy - less farm animals. (At first, I wrote livestock instead of farm animals, but that sounds speciesistic, especially regarding the topic)
@@dottiewi661and the way to do this is not to increase human population and to not continue our hyper consumptive lifestyles, which are not mutually exclusive topics
@@clairbear1234 my comment only addressed OP‘s uneasiness regarding wildlife.
Im all with you in the reduction of consumerist habits, but it’s difficult for a society to function without a significant number of young people. The phrase „ok, boomer“ exists, because the generation of people now around 60 comprises of so many people, who will leave their employers to draw on their pension in the next years. And their jobs need to be done and their pensions need to be earned by the working population. Nurses have to care for them in care homes etc. Sure, immigrants can fill that gap to a certain extent but it would be cynical to calculate, for the decades to come, with climate change refugees to be a significant number in the society’s workforce. So we need a number of young people for a state to function.and please let there be among them children of climate conscious people and not only children of climate change deniers or ignorant people…
Here in Germany, when asked how they want to combat the current work force shortage (above I was talking about future shortages), if not with immigrants in the workforce, the right wing climate change denying party AfD answered, the Germans should procreate more… so that’s what we are up against…!
An with that I don’t mean that “we” should “rival them in birth rates” but that right wing parties want to bring back traditional role models and use procreation as an argument against immigrants in the workforce.
OMG Leena yes get it! I'm early 30s, don't have / want kinds. People who I did my science degree with decide to have kids and fully change! Like, head in sand "shush with inconvenient truths" change. It makes me so immeasurably sad to loose the environmentally conscious nature of my friends, and I have felt increasingly lonely on this and I'm getting "othered" because of it. I don't think that people should stop having kids, just if they choose to, you have a responsibility to give a crap about their future and not be naïve born of guilt. I wish they would keep fighting and fight for the planet that their kids will grow up on.
Is there a way that you could help them to make the more environmentally friendly choices? For example, could you offer to do laundry every 2-3 days so they could do cloth nappies/daipers instead of disposable?
One of the hardest things I've found when I became a parent was the opinions on what I "should be" doing. I think there could be much help to the planet if we step in and help each other with the work, instead of telling people they should be doing even more work than they are.
[Sorry if this is long winded/confusing. I think maybe their hearts are there, they just don't have the bandwidth to do more than they currently are]
Edit: just got to the part of the video where Leena touches on this 😅
@@JessicasCreativeSpot they don't even want to talk about it, and any offer like this is seen as a criticism of their choice. It isn't and I'm not like that at all, it's just as if in order to have kids they have had to disassociate from their knowledge, which I understand, it's just hard to watch and be left on the side lines over.
@grappisrule That sounds really hard, I'm sorry to hear it. I hope things improve for you, and your friendships with them, as time goes forward.
I have ti say it, your friends are selfish. They know what theyre kids will suffer through the climate crisis. But not just because they decided to have kids but they decided to bring NEW kids into this world.
There are soooo manu kids around the world in shelters that would be overjoyed to be adopted to a loving home. But i stead of helping the raising the kids that already exist they decided to bring new life into the world to suffer along side everyone else
@@CallMeRabbitzUSVIWe'll said. These smug "new age" parents believe their kids won't ever buy a car or fly somewhere on vacation or ever eat meat. Civilisation is a heat engine no matter how many eco gestures you arrive to do.
I loved this video. Really got me thinking. I'm a mom of 2. I went vegan shortly after my second was born. I tell people it's because I want the planet to still be habitable for my children, but also to put myself at ease that the future won't be that bad. Our current meat and dairy consumption isn't sustainable. I believe in the future my kids just won't have the same access to meat that I have now. By going vegan I reassured myself that a world without meat really wouldn't be that bad. Climate anxiety is different as a parent, but it also is motivating for me to try to do something, even if it's small
As soon a someone becomes a. parent you can't help to be optimist. If not then it calls into question your initial decision to procreate.
Thank you for this ❤ I have been seeing a therapist for 2 years after having panic attacks about having children in this world. I am now in a better place, she made me realise that the idea of a future without children is even worse to me, and that my anxiety is further rooted than that.
I am climate-conscious, I don't fly anymore, I am vegetarian, and I do my best, and with my fiancé we will do our best to help our children be the best version of themselves. I am really eager to see them react to the beauty of the planet, going freediving with them, and experiencing life in all its beauty and horrors ❤️
Oh, u should be anxious. U r imposing anxiety and death on your kid so u can heal your own anxiety. Sick.
This comment is as if I wrote it! This is exactly my story too, after 2 years of therapy and lots and lots of deliberation we took the leap. I hope you have a wonderful journey to parenthood 🤍
i can't wait to have children! I probably only want one or two. My partner wants three, but I tell him "maybe with your vagina!" hahaha
Question: Why not adopt?
@@CallMeRabbitzUSVI I'm 100% for adoption, but it's an equally complex and hard decision. We considered it very seriously and it's still not off the table, but you really reaaally need to be fully conscious and prepared for this, since the origin story of every adoption is trauma and this is not something to underestimate. Which is why the process is also so long and complicated bureaucratically (sure some bureaucracy may be unnecessary, but the checks to the prospective parents are rightly super thorough and strict because it's not for everyone). You have to be prepared for heartbreak and for a child with complex psychological needs, on top of all the other challenges of parenthood.
So in short: yes absolutely adoption is the more ethical option for parenthood, but not everyone is ready for it in terms of resources and psychological background.
Lovely video Leena!! As someone in their mid 20s, it starts feeling like such a urgent decision to make. I love how you brought up not having children as a quick way of making yourself believe that you are solving the climate issue - I think I'd rather have one and fight even harder to make real change in other aspects, political and economical.
I'm so so happy that you addressed the animal ag issue. It's insane and governments are ignoring the problem.
Absolutely! It's a shame she's so apologist about mentioning veganism though; people SHOULD be vegan, not just for the planet but also for animal welfare issues. But unfortunately that doesn't seem to factor in her topics :/
I thought about these things, but was unfortunate to be raised in a religious household by depression/wwii era parents in small town USA. My underlying instinct to think critically was undermined by the years of brainwashing I endured that taught me that I had no choice but to breed and be subservient. I was also told by my doctor because of ovarian cancer in the family I would likely be barren. So when I was suddenly pregnant at 22, my thoughts and fears went out the window and I ended up having two kids by 25. I love them, but know that the guilt is real as well as the fears about the world they’ll be in. They don’t drive, they thrift clothes and have free/ thrifted furniture in their homes, travel mostly by eco/carbon-free trains (Germany), eat vegetarian/vegan whole and local foods…but, two more people are using resources. It’s true. Had I only understood my choices at that young age, I would have not had them, because it was really hard as a young single mom and starting in the consumerism ridden society in the States. I am with another partner, but decided not to have kids with this one. Also, my ovaries and tubes were removed four years ago.
You're so incredibly lucid and wise, every time I watch one of your videos I'm left with a sense of hope and purpose, a renewed commitment to this world and this life so thank you so much! ❤
The problem lies in that only white people are targeted to be climate conscious, etc. While India, Africa, Middle Eastern, and china keep increasing their population. Wake up!
Thanks
About the graph being so big and assigning the carbon print of your children and all their children to you, I believe it does make sense because if you don't get children, you only use up resources until you die. If you have children, you create another person that will continue to use resources, so this is a finite use of resources vs. an infinite use of resources.
Also, I was thinking about it being selfish to assume that life will not be worth living in for your potential children is in a way god-like yes, if you were to decide this for all future children and installing a population control system, which would I believe inevitably end in an elitist/racist/sexist/... system.
But - and I'm playing the devil's advocate here - how can it be a selfish thought with regards to a person that does not yet exist? This is exactly the kind of argument (bear with me please, still the devil's advocate here) that - from my eperience - anti-abortian groups use, that it is selfish of you to refuse your unborn child a life. So as much as that does not make sense to me, because I am very much pro-abortion, so does the reasoning of you personally feeling like this world is not worth it for your non-existing children to live in.
In general I just don't think it would be a very bad thing to have more people decide to not have children. There will always be people who will decide to have children, which should always be an option if that is what they want to do.
Exactly this! I cannot really digest any argument that not having kids for a fear for the future might be selfish. A person who doesn't exist cannot have any hold over any woman's life. And I'm not sure why there is sometimes the tone of solving a "depopulation crisis" in talks about the birth rate (not Leena's video) - the UN projects the population to reach >10 billion in 2100. We're definitely not going extinct, guys.
I think people are also unaware of what the future holds. Climate change and ecological overshoot WILL lead to mass starvation and conflict. It’s not like it’s just going to be that the weather is different, so I feel like it’s not that “godlike” to predict the future- the specifics? Yes. The general picture? No
The math in terms of the individuals whose impact’s we’re counting is correct, but projecting using past data is not accurate. I’m in the US, and although my country is definitely one of the worst in terms of per capita CO2 emissions, we have been steadily decreasing since the 70’s. My children will have a much smaller carbon footprint than me, and theirs them.
I agree that I don’t think it’s selfish to predict what a currently non-existent human might feel, but I do think it’s presumptuous/playing god. From that angle it looks more like the pro choice position. A person who doesn’t exist doesn’t exist-we simply can’t know what their thoughts or feelings on being alive will be. But creating a cutoff, like, if there is a certain amount of suffering, no human would think life was worth living, seems incredibly dangerous to me.
Overall I appreciate your measured opinion :)
I love all of your videos, but this one might just be my favorite, even after years of being a subscriber! You did such a lovely job with this sensitive topic. Thanks as always Leena.
China is currently going through a crisis of having an underwhelming amount of young people due to having the "one child policy" in the past. Japan has similar issues due to the lack of the work-life balance in their culture. Young people are necessary for continuing society, and to take care of the growing elder population (as healthcare workers, among other things- not necessarily children taking care of their kids).
So even though it *might* be a little selfish to have kids in an environmental sense, know that if mass amounts of people stop having children has adverse affects as well. That is, if you want to have them of course. I wouldn't want to force something like having kids on someone if they didn't want to, as I'm child free by choice as well.
Yes.. I came here to say something similar. I majored in Geoscience and we learn about population demographics. Places like South Korea, China, Italy and Japan have inverted population pyramids and are at risk of population collapse in the near future. Which comes with a whole set of challenges not covered in this video.
Maybe I just don’t want children and I’m tired of people calling me selfish for not wanting children… so I lie and say I don’t want children due to the climate crisis. I’ve never met a childless woman who actually don’t want children due to climate change. We just don’t want children and wish people would stop bothering us
Having just hit my 2nd trimester, I've been really wrestling with this. But I know that this is the right choice for me; it's a deep calling and I know it's something I want to do while not shying from reality. Thank you for making this video
Wishing you a smooth, healthy pregnancy & labor, and the loving support of a community afterward 🙏♥
It might be too late but i gotta ask, why did you not decide to adopt?
this is so well-researched and articulated. and i love the editing/ animation!
The thing I'm most concerned about with having kids is their safety and security. Carbon footprint feels like a way for corporations to make me feel guilty for their choices. There's definitely wallet voting I can do but I am not the problem
I’m a childfree antinatalist I’m glad I had no kids. I couldn’t have been comfortable with my offspring hurting , suffering, struggling, bleeding , sweating or crying. There is no moral reason to have a child and doing so is premeditated murder.
This is unrelated to anything but I was just thinking about your bathtub busking series a few days ago. I liked that so much back in the day, it brought me to this channel and the vibes were immaculate.
Great takes, thank you so much for this video. You have no idea of how good the timing of posting it was for me personally.
Xxx
Lots of rich people built bunkers in NZ during COVID, which has become a bit of a jux-aposition to Kiwi culture which is very egalitarian in nature. I have a feeling that if an apocalypse comes all those rich people have done is guarantee that they'll be the first ones ON the menu 😅
Precisely. What exactly makes these rich people think that a society that is based on egalitarianism, community and sharing, is going to serve them, or tolerate their resource hoarding?
How do they think they'll actually get to NZ when TSHTF?
Loved how you explained how poorly the graph was created - great insight! Thank you as always for the thoughtful and kind video! Thanks gumption club too!
I've been through feeling deep despair about my son's future, not in a he-wont-have-lots-of-material-goods type of way, more in a what horrendous hellscape will he live in with food shortages, social unrest, collapse of society etc. I will say on the flip side, since having a child I do find Im much more able to put the crisis to the back of my mind just because they fill up your brain so much, and although I would say we have remained true to our green morality, realistically you do get pulled into the less green culture around child rearing and stuff and holidays etc to some degree, which I found much easier to shun when I didnt have a kid. Enjoyed your thoughtful exploration of this topic!
i would recommend David Benatar's book "better never to have been".
also, antinatalism is a philosophy, you can read about it to know more.
A lot of people just have kids because they found out they were pregnant after having unprotected sex and the person they’re with is “good enough.” It’s not that radical or optimistic to them. They’re just on autopilot and they don’t even think about going off.
This is one of the most important videos I've ever watched on this platform. I really needed to hear all of this. Thank you Leena for your fearless honesty, radical optimism, and endless pursuit of discovery. So grateful for your work 💌
Quote of the decade: "My ovaries are as redundant as my wisdom teeth."
My husband and I plan to be the Auntie and Uncle that teachers our sibling's and friend's kids how to use public transport and adopting rescue dogs
It's a much more sensible idea than having children just so you can raise them to be eco conscious. It takes a village to raise a child after all.
The people who ask this question are the best to have kids (if they want them). Teach your kids how to look after the environment and to care. One good person wont drain resources, in fact they might give back and make a change. And show its possible to raise your kids in a sustainable way and show them how to live a sustainable life.
I think this is the first time I can understand why some people choose to have children, this video truly made me see a perspective I never thought about before, I'm kind of mind blown right now
Just to pick out one tiny throwaway line and fixate on it:
Decent vegan lasagne:
Chop vegetables you like into roughly 1cm2 pieces (I use a lot of root vegetables for this, onions, carrots, parsnips, ect) roast them in oil, preferred herbs and balsamic vinegar.
Combine with tomato sauce
Layer between pasta sheets, alternating with a bechamel sauce with added spinach and nutritional yeast.
Finish with a layer of the bechamel without spinach.
If there is a vegan cheese you like, top with this now
Cook in oven until pasta sheets are cooked through.
A meat eater friend of mine said this was the best lasagna she had ever had.
Really thoughtful points! I also very much appreciate you mentioning foster care, which isn't discussed positively very often in secular discourse in the US very often.
I'd also like to note though that the options are not (a) reform foster and adoption systems, or (b) adopt.
We also need people to become foster parents! No the system isn't perfect, but even if reforms are made, we will need foster families! There will always be kids who need a safe and loving place away from their own homes for a period of time, and there is a massive foster home shortage today.
I really appreciate your informed, balanced stance on something you obviously have a personal opinion about. This was very enlightening!
It was really nice to hear the way you expressed that part of the decision to have a child is what their experience will be. This is something that I feel people misunderstand when I say I don't want kids.
Oof…making me think about my views. I think I have just been observing so much waste and excess and disconnect with the climate issues, that I feel like people are not actually making any of the changes, so I guess I have felt like if some people don’t have kids, it will possibly offset those who have kids and make no accommodations or changes with climate change in mind. I live in the Midwest in the US and in my area, there doesn’t seem to be much concern, so then I think about larger ways a person can help to offset.
This video was very thoughtful and I appreciate the perspective.
I am child free by choice (for the simple reason that i have No desire for children) and the Idea of Not having children because they could "drain the planets resources" is deeply disturbing to me. It's basically eugenics. Im German, so when people try to Dress what they call Population Control in pretty Terms, my Alarm bells Go Off. If you as a Person decided that you dont want Kids because of their effect on the Planet... Thats your choice. But this Kind of rethoric rarely Sticks to individual choice and very quickly seeps into Public Policy, where it gets called Population Control, but it's really Just eugenics. And then people get to decide who is a drain and who isnt. We Had this Type of stuff before and it NEVER ends Well.
So If you dont want Kids. By all means, dont have them. But PLEASE think about your motivations for Not having them and what their implications are.
Also: it's fine to Just Not want Kids. Not everything has to be that deep.
Nah, population control is needed. I am glad many younger folks are deciding not to have kids because of their negative impact on the landscape.
I'd expect a German to actually know, what eugenics is. Eugenics is selective mating based on desirable traits, and weeding out undesirable traits. Eugenics is for "improving the genetic quality of a certain human population". Choosing to not have children at all to reduce the load on strained resources is NOT eugenics, it has nothing to do at all with breeding for or breeding out arbitrary traits. By your logic, animal populations that kill or eat their young due to lack of resources in their ecosystem is also eugenics, but it doesn't result in offspring bred for selected qualities, does it. It results in no offspring at all until resources available are optimal for rearing offspring in a way that doesn't drastically lower the quality of their own, as well as the already existing population's lives.
Literally all living creatures practice population control based on available resources. The fact is: a child takes up a lot of resources, and is a massive source of pollution (because most people simply aren't going to opt for doing everything from scratch, including reusable cloth diapers you have to clean and boil every time). It's not eugenics to choose to forgo having that child in order to ensure less of a load on currently available resources. It's just not.
I love your content, thank you. But I have to say I LOVE the wall couch combo. It's a very soothing backdrop. 😊
As a person who has decided not to produce children with the environmental impact being one of the considerations, this video has not convinced me to change my stance.
-the resources consumed by my future children are dependent upon my decision to have them
-as I am a privileged person in the US, my child's consumption would be similar to others in the US
-I have the privilege to make this decision
-other people are producing enough children that the population of the planet will continue to increase regardless of my individual decision
-the impact of government and companies is greater than mine but that doesn't mean that it's worthless for me to do what I can (similar to eating less meat)
-I don't tell others what choices to make
I watched this video hoping to hear persuasive arguments, since I like to have my preconceived notions challenged, but maybe I'll have to wait for another video!
45, no kids by choice. Mostly for the world I think is coming /is already here. That will not stop me, in fact is WHY I WILL try to be a "good ancestor"
I like quote
"How do we love all children, of all species, of all time?" William McDonough
"We borrow the present from the future"
Or the book "the good ancestor"
11:23 appreciate you sharing this kind of historic context. From what I tend to hear from conservative / climate-crisis deniers in my family, this level of fear focus is largely why they dismiss climate concerns now (they think it's all overblown). It's so tricky to communicate the serious reality to folks without them going into shutdown mode because they're unwilling to accept the idea of personal changes for something they say they don't see the effects of. On the racist note: I wondered the other day how those folks in my life would feel if it was a country other than the U.S. accelerating environmental damage. Like, if it was China's consumer culture primarily ruining American's climate trajectory, would the climate crisis deniers still be so stubborn about there being no need to change? I suspect they'd change their tune because all of a sudden it's not all about their benefit and control.
Hey Leena. I would love to see a video on our political parties in the UK in relation to the climate crisis as our election approaches, not really a “who should I vote for” but rather the parties’ stances and goals on improving the situation and if their actions in the past have reflected that. It’s a very important factor for me when it comes to voting and I have tried to do my own research but to be honest I’m not sure where to look, I find I can digest and understand info better when you lay it out the way you do in your videos. Just an idea, thanks! 🖤
I'm happily childfree like you, but I appreciate your nuanced approach to this subject! And yes, even though undoubtedly one more person born into a wester, consumerist society will put an additional burden on our resources, there is no question that the REAL problem here is the wealth-hoarding that's being done by the ultra-wealthy. Their refusal to part with *some* of their money, which we could use to solve many of these problems, should enrage everyone, and we should be joining together to do something about it. Also, eat more plant-based meals, folks.
Simply brilliant Leena. On my way to embark my kid in my positive panic journey !
This video was incredibly well done, thank you so much Leena 😊
0:08: "I wish to be unwise and barren" PUT IT ON MERCH
This was a brilliant video - thank you Leena. Very thoughtful and measured (and optimistic!), which I really appreciated
love this! i have a 20 month old and am having a second baby in october. we're raising them both vegan and trying to be as environmentally conscious as possible, which definitely makes me feel a bit better about my unstoppable desire to be a mother😅 always love these videos, they feel like they offer such nuance on these often difficult conversations!
I procrastinated watching this video due to the hyperbolic title, perhaps expecting it to advocate for being child-free because we're all doomed anyway - but of course your analysis was nuanced and focused on the positives! Thank you for this video, I'm glad I'm part of the Gumption Club :)
I can say that since having a kid my climate anxiety / awareness strongly increased and that is the main reason I did not have more.
That said I totally agree that population control is often fascist and eugenicist. It’s more that my child didn’t ask to be born in this world and I can’t stand to imagine her future suffering.
Have only just started, but a huge part of my decision to start a family was drawing up a plan on how to do the best I possibly can for the planet every day. I have found that my hardest parenting struggle has been how disconnected from the planet most parents are, not to mention schools.
This is the best video essay about this topic that I've ever heard in my life. You're an absolute gem.
I will forever joke that I am the best parent I can be because my nonexistent child will never take part in the water wars.
My fellow nulliparous folks seem to have a resounding 'I just don't want to' reasoning that we all then feel the need to further embellish upon to make it more palatable to others that won't understand it. Perhaps we have internalized this need for a "good" reason, a "good why,*" that has been ruminated to death to justify that decision. When the reality is, choosing to grow ones family in that particular way is probably where one should really be exploring and understanding the why behind that decision.
ETA* like climate crisis
Good joke. My feeling too. That I care too much about my future children to have them. I think most people who are already parents hate to be reminded of the probable difficulties their children will face, so I guess "I just don't want to" is the more digestible version of what I'm thinking.
What a beautiful and nuanced video! I am so grateful. Thank you for this wonderful video. I've been waiting (and quietly dreading a little) for this video for a long time. I was close to not watching it. I'm SO grateful I watched it. THANK YOU! ❤
In an ideal world, those who are born are born wanted, not needed and never by compulsion.
As a person with four kids (though all of them are older, almost adults), I might have a different perspective here. Granted, my kids are older and my thoughts on this may not be the same if I were making the decision in today's world. I really feel like there are a lot of parts of this that aren't being discussed.
For example, one that was somewhat touched on here, how will you be raising your children? There are plenty of people in the world that raise their children to follow the majority expectation. However, I've worked hard to raise my children to be the change I want to see in the world. Once they reach the age of majority, I can only hope I've raised them well enough to make wise decisions for the future of the earth.
Taking into consideration that a majority of my friends and coworkers do not have children and do not plan to have children, I am in the minority for my community. If most people in my community are not having children, I shouldn't feel guilty about having children and adding to overpopulation.
Raising children doesn't have to come with a huge "carbon footprint." Buy children's items and clothing second hand, when possible. For safety reasons, that's not always an option, like car seats, but for many other items it can be. Also be realistic for what's necessary for a child. They need clothing, a place to sleep, and food, but my children's favorite toys were sticks and rocks in the back yard. Those items you do need or want are easily found second hand in most cases.
Someone will inherit the earth when we are all gone, and that's something to consider too. If the only people having children are those who are uneducated or simply are unwilling to change, they're going to raise their children with the same bad practices they're practicing today. Those children can be educated, but it isn't going to hurt to balance the scales by adding a few children who are raised already aware of what we're doing to the planet, and making better choices. If someone actively wants children in their future, they can argue that they're doing a service for the world for balancing out all the children who are raised without that awareness and social responsibility.
My last piece, outsiders don't always know what changes a person is making to be more aware of their relationship with the planet, or sometimes they don't understand. I keep thinking back to a friend who wanted me to convert me to her more eco-friendly lifestyle, but when we talked, she found out I was already doing a lot of the things she wanted to suggest, and I had a few suggestions she'd never heard of. In fairness, she had a couple ideas I hadn't come across either, so it was a good discussion, but she assumed I was living a standard, American consumer lifestyle, and had no way of knowing I'd made so many changes in my life, some of them long before I met her, because I live a very private life.
I guess what I'm saying is there's nothing wrong with feeling like kids are an important part of your future, but there's also nothing wrong with knowing kids aren't right for you. And if you're on the fence, there's nothing wrong with taking a nice long time to figure it out.
Another good video but throwing adoptees under the bus. Leena, seriously, educate yourself about adoption trauma and forced historical adoptions. As well as, in the US, adoption agencies literally make money off of people "too poor" to keep their children. International adoption can be and is mostly human trafficking. The thing we need to change is not "making adoption easier". It is as you said, providing access to free birth control and adoption. And then supporting pregnant people in a crisis so that their only "choice" isn't to permanently be cut off from their child. Nobody is owed a child.
I was eight when my mother asked if she‘d been too strict towards my brother who had had one of his supermarket tantrums. I‘m supposed to have said: „I could never be as loving as you“. I date this incident as the cornerstone of my decision that I would not be suited to deal with children. I like them a lot, but 24/7? never! I have been doing everything else right. Voted for the greens since 1980, never had a car, and although I did fly without even thinking about it right into the early 2000s and am still doing it now very occasionally. 10 years ago I went full-arsed vegan. I would beg to disagree when it comes to letting the food industry make my food almost as unhealthy as non-vegan food. The food industry will always want to give us hyper-palatability (lots of fat and salt). We have to control what goes into our mouths if we want to be truly healthy. Does it show that I went vegan for my own health, because I did not want to eat lots of pills with side-effects that don‘t heal me, just keep me alive for longer? I‘m very happy that it is also good for the planet and stops horrible suffering of billions of sentient beings (if more people did it). I loved your arguments.
Well this has been a harrowing video to watch for my internal unconscious bias😅 thank you for making this leena! Gonna have to sit in silence and do some Thinking (I'm still a person that doesnt want kids but oh my god my pov has been shaken like a Polaroid picture)
Isn't it AMAZING when you are certain about something and then you get more info that triggers you to re-assess it all?
every now and then I remind myself "there is something I believe RIGHT now which I am wrong about"
such a strange and wonderful feeling
Thank you for pointing out that how crazy that graph is!
Thank you Leena! This video is sooo good and came at a really good point in time for me. And I‘m sure I will send it to friends in the future, when the question comes up. This is the first video since I joined the grumption club and it made it very clear for me that joining was long overdue.
A hundred years ago, my family went through a horrific hunger in the south of Russia. It was triggered by poor crops several years in a row, but what killed people was the government. Government took everything to the big cities, leaving villages to die. So yeah, scarcity of food may happen, but it doesn't kill you, your government does.
Uncomfortable details too many people prefer to ignore or even forget. A similar thing happened in Ireland, with the potato blight destroying crops, during the seven years from 1845 to 1852. An Gorta Mor, or "as an Drochshoal", a big contributor to the horror was policy faillure. Then we have the three years from 1959 to 1961 in a very big country, also driven by policy faillure. Then Ethiopia, an ongoing situation that is a combination of policy faillure and malice. Then the three years from 1967 to 1970 in long forgotten Biafra, which was deliberate, pure malice, using famine as a w__pon of mass d_str_ction and it worked.
I'm happy that I don't want kids and don't need to think about all that. But yeah if I wanted children I would definitely be worried about their future, and not only the climate crisis (that may bring floods, famines, unbearable heat waves, shortage of clean water and food etc) but also just with current political situation in the world, wars, rising divide between classes, lack of job security etc. I'm 30 an cannot afford currently to buy a house. So realistically having children now wouldn't improve my situation but make it worse.
This was sooo interesting! ❤ and uplifting. Thank you so much for your research and crystal clear thoughts on the subject. Will share!!
crying with relief at the nuance & tenderness of this. thank you, the new points you've raised have healed some real deep down pain for me
These jewel-toned colors look AMAZING on you!
Such an incredible video with really interesting points; I'll be sure to share it amongst my friends! I really appreciate that you looked at both sides of the question, since people are pretty manichean about this topic (I, for one, am).
Phenomenal video Leena - so rigorous, so nuanced, and (unlike so many other environmental commentators) so human 👏🏾🧡
Watching this weeks aftet it was posted, so not exactly part of that conversation. But - thank you. Your conclusion is tremendous, Leena, which should not surprise me. Your research and analysis is *always* better than I imagine at the beginning of any video essay or commentary. And this one is such a life affirming humane encouragement. Many appreciations😮
Xxx
I got ill at 35 and now I will never have kids. Just have kids if you want them. I really regret not prioritising kids instead of a career I'm too ill for now anyway
Wow lordy this was an emotional one. I can’t remember where I heard this, but I heard a great thing from an Indigenous American writer about how for some groups in the world, the apocalypse has already been and come. I think for those groups of people in particular, having and raising children must be even more radical and optimistic, cos they’re defying the apocalypse and creating the Hopeful Future. Thanks for this vid
edit: I *REALLY* appreciate the non-hateful way you ate talking about this topic as a child-free-by-choice person. I'm often met with distain and disgust and people who believe I'm selfish just by having one (again, not by choice) or who act morally suporior and down-right antinatalist and anti-chidren. I can't tell you how many dirty looks I get from people just by taking up space as someone with a child, and as a *MOTHER* because for some reason people *REALLY* hate mothers
kinda late for me; for a VERY long time, I was very child-free-by-choice and I became a parent *not by choice* . it was a huge adjustment and I made a *LOT* of sacrifices (bodily, lifestyle, sanity, I an a stay-at-home-mom due to chronic illness) but I've never known a deeper love and frankly I wouldn't have it any other way- but I think I'm a one and done. I do NOT want any more because it has been ROUGH in every sense of the word an in every single way. it's just not smart 🤷🏽♀ as for what we eat, personally I can't have dairy and gluten nor can I have red meat too often at all because my stomach is broken. my daughter needs the dairy tho, but also won't really eat beef, mainly just fruits, veggies, and chicken and salmon. we also don't consume too many processed foods other than snacks here and there and my gluten free stuff and we NEVER eat out. I cook all of our meals from scratch. I'm not perfect but I *PROMISE* I'm trying