So your telling me that both AMD and Intel built a new generation of CPUs for the 99 percent of folks who either buy OEM machines or who don't plan to buy a 5090. The tech involved helps both companies in the data center market. Amazing - logic was used The high end chips from both companies are great for heavily threaded loads. AMD is even producing the 9800X3D for gamers with a 5090. Its the low end and mid range chips that seem kind of meh - pricy and not any better for their use case. 90 percent of this market would be fine with a cheap 12th gen Intel or a 5000 AMD CPU
Maybe if this channel and several other channels realized that computers are useful for things other than gaming they'd have done a better job discussing computer tech.
@@ZiggyMercury It's really tiring, there's very few (larger sized) channels to find a good, plain discussion of computer hardware, or finding a perspective on new hardware that isn't just for gaming.
Well... it's looking more and more like the 9950X3D is going to be the way forward for me. I was interested in seeing how these new chips perform, but seeing the platform and connectivity that's supported on the new boards is... disappointing.
@@fachasaurus Yeah, I'm just biding my time until then. I've already started buy the non-platform dependent parts. All I need to see what the B850 board have to offer compared to the 870 boards. Should be a pretty decent upgrade from my 5950X/3080 Ti.
Next gen Intel could make more gains in gaming performance. While 9950x3d might only get 5% over 4000x3d. Wait till 5000rtx comes out, should see some good benchmarks of these new CPUs.
I heard a TON of people saying that big.LITTLE wasn't well suited for the desktop, but here we are on the fourth generation with it. Once we got past the hiccups it had it had at first it was great.
Rumours already saying that new motherboards cost more than last gen... So it's even worse even if the price is right... Motherboards alone holding back this new generation CPUs for the past 2 year... It's sad that they are not addressing price control for motherboards...
There is a large benefit to an NPU. You can offload AI processing while doing graphics processing at the same time. Think, AI in video games. It's also much easier to integrate because AI on the GPU requires the user to install a complex bulky CUDA runtime manually while intel NPUs are supported out of the box. It's pretty cool
maybe yeah. but that's really because we are told that x is going to do y better. in reality, there is no real 'why' are we using these things. before a cpu was a cpu. it did everything for anyone, but got faster. today we are told ai is better here, but what is ai?
@@albertcamus6611 what they mean is just acceleration of the specific linear algebra functions used in neural network algorithms. If you run the AI on the CPU, other things like physics and game logic are significantly impacted. If you run it on the GPU, you will only be able to draw half as many frames because the GPU is occupied doing AI. It also massively limits the available VRAM for graphics processing, while system RAM is typically abundant
SHHHH! The hivemind has already decided that AI = bad. We all know that "nobody" runs AI workloads now, which means that "nobody" will ever run them in the future, making the tech dead before it even existed.
I always thought that a high-end computer is useful also for things like huge excel sheets, demanding code, video and photo editing and so forth. But, judging by this video (and videos from many other channels), apparently they're only useful for gaming. I guess I'll run my huge Excel sheets on a PlayStation...
this series looks perfectly fitted for bigger laptop cpus that lunar lake doesn't cover, but lunar lake already covers the name 285 for laptops. this is stupid, they should put an arrow lake into big gaming laptops, that's where they can shine
if you wanted to buy a 14900K but didn't want to buy a time bomb CPU, this is the answer. same perf as 14900K (give or take a few %) but at lower power. I am want to see what 9800X3D has to offer.
This release is so shady. If they the thermals are that much lower ofc the first thing overclockers are going to do is take the termals the what their cooler's rated for. Why not just give us those numbers out of the box? I'm thinking it's because it won't stack up
It seems that these CPUs are the same as 13th and 14th gen but without multithreading. Doesn't concern me, i'll be upgrading my 7950X3D to 9950X3D when it comes out. In the meantime i'll put in a new ASRock X870E Nova WiFi mobo in my RiG while and see how it works with my 7950X3D while i wait for the 9950X3D.
Are we just forgetting that Intel completely ducked up 2 generations of CPUs? They’re dead, just done for I’m not hyped, I expected lower wattage but AMD already had it with the previous generation.
@@thetechrealist It's all 65W and up Raptor Lake-based SKUs on 13/14th gen that are affected (important emphasis on Raptor Lake based because there are some Alder Lake dies in some SKUs which are NOT affected).
@@HardwareCanucks *YIKES*, I hope this is sarcasm. Intel stated it affected any CPU with a TDP of 65 watts or greater. Maybe less time spent making tombstone thumbnails for products that haven't shipped and more time educating yourself on the 13/14th gen situation is in order.
It was designed "to put efficiency before overall performance" 🤣 Is that a slogan from Intel marketing slides? The only ground up thing here is related to using TSMC fabs now so obviously some redesign had to be made. And since now the cost of the silicon is out of their hands, they had to go the same route they were laughing about 7 years ago - gluing chips together to save some pennies. For Intel tho doing Tick (proces node change) and Tock (u arch change to fit that totally unknown node and tile splitting) was probably the most brave move in the history of their company, so well yeah, let them have the credit 😄 The efficiency came solely from using latest and greatest 3nm process node from TSMC for the core tiles and they fact that they had to exchange any measurable performance gains to achieve this is quite sad in my opinion. I don't doubt those CPU's will be good for some use cases, mostly productivity workloads while gaming had to be put down in priority, it's something like Zen1 day for Intel, which might be the best thing they did in decade. Let's see on the actual real world performance reviews, to find out if it's time to get some discounted Intel stocks.
you dont really need an ultra 9 285k/14900k to game if you are squeezing and fighting for 4-8 fps, maybe you should consider upgrading the gpu instead rather than a whole new plattform, the fact that the arrow lake does the same than a 14900k in games while consuming way less power its an excellent win, less power, less heat, less electricity bill, edit: (yes im aware we can no longer expect the techological jumps we used to have in the past, double-triple digit performance upgrade, we are barely scrapping by 3-8% upgrades each generation, for that the only answer i think that can be said is: time can only tell, and dont open your wallets so eagerly every time XYZ company announces a doodad for their doodads)
Yeah that's what Intel did before Ryzen now they are both doing it is not that they can't is that there is people who would say "is okay" and buy this sh*t
Intel's Arrow Lake S lineup is a fascinating pivot towards efficiency, and I find it refreshing! While some may dismiss it as underwhelming, the focus on power consumption and heat management is a bold move in today’s eco-conscious landscape. The absence of SMT might raise eyebrows, but it could lead to a more streamlined performance that prioritizes real-world applications over raw numbers. Sure, it may not outpace the 14900K in gaming, but the upgraded XE LPG graphics core and the introduction of an NPU signal Intel's commitment to innovation. This could be the start of a new era!
Well here's the thing...we don't actually know what the real story is. Yes, efficiency when gaming and in lightly threaded workloads seems to have increased by an order of magnitude. But what I want to know is if these chips still hit 250W in all core workload situations and close to that in games like Cyberpunk (14900K before came close to 200W in that one). If that's the case its a smaller victory than we hope. Likely thing is that Intel's going to use a sliding scale to determine all core workload power.
@@HardwareCanucks I get where you’re coming from, but the shift to efficiency doesn’t need to mean sacrificing performance across the board. Even if Arrow Lake’s power draw hits high levels under certain all-core workloads, Intel's approach seems less about dominating every single metric and more about optimizing for the tasks that most people care about day-to-day. As for gaming? The majority of titles won’t come close to pushing that kind of wattage. We need to appreciate that Intel is laying the groundwork for a smarter balance between power and performance, instead of just throwing more cores and heat at the problem.
AMD chose a wise step with leaving cores and threads and adding 3d cache, Intel fucked up with their semi-efficient Ecores - in before they are mobile cpus at best.
The E-Cores were an interesting addition and they still are but Windows is such a mess with scheduling it will probably still take a couple of generations until Microsoft gets it right.
intel going from 'intel 7' to tsmc 3nm could only squeeze out 5-10% single thread gain and 10-20% multi thread gain? amd ryzen going from tsmc 7 (zen2, say 3800x) to tsmc 4 (zen5, 9700x) single thread performance went up 70%, multi thread up 60%. where did all that process gain go for intel? oto, 6nm io chiplet/tile support 8000mhz memory is nice.
I am now currently thinking of trying to be a Linux user (OpenSUSE Tumbleweed) with full AMD hardware. If 9800x3d is great and RDNA 4 is great and power efficient (because electricity bills sucks in my country), I might just jump into Linux (to start learning it before W10 EOL).
I have an unstable 14900KS. I can get my money back and get another cpu but I have to buy a new mother board to do so. I have a Arctic Freezer 420 so cooling is decent and a 4090. I play mostly games but play with some LLMs and Stable Difussion and virtual machines. What do you guys think I should do? If I get a left over motherboard I think I will get a cheaper CPU and build a little server with my current Z790 board. I am thinking about getting a 9800X3D if it comes out this fall.
It depends. Are you relying on the CPU for those LLMs and Stable Diffusion or are you using TensorRT? Because if its through TensorRT, CPU speed doesn't matter as much as GPU horsepower anyways.
I highly doubt that Intel's market share in the consumer desktop market will grow with ARL and they were already at 8% at Mindfactory lately. No AVX 10.2/AVX-512 and no gaming performance improvements won't get them anywhere and the efficiency improvements alone won't get them much sales either. There is also no incentive to invest into LGA18XX as a platform, as the chances are high that there is no newer generation on that socket.
@@HardwareCanucks The word DOA and the tombstone thumbnail immediately drives a negative response, thus making more likely for people to click on the video. You know what you did.
@@ktwei It refers to the point that the chip is worse at gaming than its predecessor and the platform will only get one generation of processors. Thats why its a hypothetical question in the title.
It’s definitely clickbait - it’s hyperbolic and begging for attention with the tombstone and word choice. Whether or not it’s posed as an interrogative makes no difference - that’s an invalid defense. Combining a history of that with their immature replies on viewer comments is a good way to lose subscribers.
100000%, two whole generations. That's many, many more than Intel, which only supported 12/13/14th gen on LGA1700. Don't even get me STARTED on TR40 and sTR40. Those saw so many generations that it was ridiculous.
I'll stay on my AMD AM5 platform & Apple M chips for my laptop. intel is deat to me after 13 & 14th gen CPUs & all the issues both game me. No more Intel for me...
Pretty bad, the reason to upgrade now is really PCIE5, but and the hope that they realize nobody cares about power consumption and release something better for the same socket. A lot of ifs to jump in now, and wasted money as you would likely upgrade in a year. So the question is really can you wait another year before upgrading.
I think this processor is great for MS surface and still provide good graphics performance. But microsoft did choose the U series which is slow and less igpu performance maybe comparable with old generation. 🤦🏻♂️
13:15 let’s hope some games start using the NPU for something but then again it might be better to do all that on the GPU 🤷♂️. Yes little stupid on a desktop PC, would make sense to offload some tasks to this NPU for power saving on a laptop or smaller pc but yeah idk
For me this CPU is DOA. Being 21% slower in Cyberpunk 2077 than 14900k running in baseline is a f. joke. Imagine against my 345W custom cooled 5.7/4.6 DDR5 8200 14900k -> 30%+ difference. Folks, there is nothing here for gamers. If I disable HT on my CPU, it can run 6.2/4.6 and won't go over 200W. Arrow Lake is absolute trash in my opinion. According to Intel slide Arrow Lake vs Raptor Lake baseline uses only 80W less of total system power. 80W means f. squat, that is nothing. I bet you this junk will be so aggressive on switching tasks to E cores thus saving power, what a latency shit show. I bet you a lot of games will just run on E cores. If you are in a market get 9800X3D for gaming or 9950X3D for more processing power. Skip this Intel junk. If you already have Zen 4 or 14900k skip this generation and get Nvidia 5090.
Civilization as a benchmark game? Are you serious? Great, you got a better single core and have more FPS in a static top down view. How about the time to process a big map with lots of bots with half the threads?
I can run my 14900k on DDR5 9000, so what is exactly Intel's point? 10:49 -> there is no overclocking for this junk. Remember it uses the TSMC process which is horrible for overclocking just like an AMD chip. There is no performance to squeeze out of this junk.
You are not correct about NPU here. Its the same story as it was in the begging with RTX. Everyone was saying it was useless blablabla. Well, to this day 2080 RTX is a pretty solid card that can play a lot of games. Same story with NPU - yes you can use GPU for that, but any AI task requirers a lot of RAM and you simply cant combine gaming and running LLM at the same time. Even with RTX 4090 - today. Yes I have tried. Soon there will be progressive generated games which use local NPU for everything from NPU generation, to on-the-fly textures etc. This is also why performance upgrade at this stage is useless, as Intel knows that as soon as first AAA games which requires NPU hit the marked, Intel will be just as nvidia - the only option for high-end gamer.
I think you are thinking of it the wrong way. The original RTX cards were amazing raster cards in their own right and as additional RT titles came out their first gen RT cores proved themselves to be woefully underpowered. They needed other tech like DLSS to prop them up and even then fell flat on their faces. They were also the only game in town for RT acceleration whereas in a system with an Ultra 200S, there are AI accelerators in the GPU and to a lesser extent in the CPU cores as well. They added something here that won't be used for years, if ever simply because its so under-performant even today, very early in the AI acceleration age.
@@HardwareCanucks Apart from security bugs decrease due to not using HT and lower power draw due to the manufacturing process improved, what else is better? Pricing, platform longegivity or huge jump in performance? None.
I really feel for the engineers, having to work out a solution a year late and transitioning from failed Intel fabs. It's a patchwork quilt, a shame when TSMC 3 nm is so good. They're saving cost here, but priced higher than expected. We needed a 8P+8E package, under 200 W, at $300 US.
Personally, while these are billed as gaming first CPUs to enthusiasts (or at least they were in the past), the addition of things like a half-decent iGPU and NPU points towards Arrow Lake being an "everything" product. What Intel needs to offset this approach is a dedicated gaming CPU. Maybe something with a pure 10-16 P-Cores and tons of cache backing it up.
@HardwareCanucks They're in quite a predicament honestly, the next moves are crucial. Agreed, a future all P-core design, abandoning big.LITTLE might save this market segment. Also agreed, this successor to Lunar Lake is pointed towards the SoC mainstream. It may all be a bit too late. They are still in a position for more aggressive pricing for the time being, despite the financial woes.
@HardwareCanucks yeap its a good at everything but doesn't stand out on anything. To be fair to the mass market, that's a good thing. As long as they don't have issues, they will make money with oems no problem. As for gaming, I would like to see a "ks" version, but just P cores to take on the r7 x3d chips, 8 cores vs 8 cores. They kept trying to fight a purpose built 8 core x3d with their all-around halo product and don't think that's a good idea.
@@HardwareCanucks You don't think its game over? You're talking about an improvement in efficiency like its the 2nd coming of Christ! Customers have efficiency of CPU's at the very bottom of their list...You would advise someone looking to purchase one of these ultra intel CPU's over AMD why exactly? In this video you seem like you're trying you're best at damage limitation & clever semantics...
The question is though....if Arrow Lake is already hitting $600 and Bartlett comes out for LGA1700...it would retail for what? $700? Price inflation is a scary thing.
So the next gen of desktop CPUs to answer the problems issssssssss, ladies and gentlemen,,,,,,, No hyperthreading and better power consumption (cough 250w load while boosting cough) so your DESKTOP BATTERY will last longer now, and less frequency.
main question is how much Intel lies in their benches !! i hope not so much as AMD does on CES and further and then on bigger amount of games and tasks it was not even zen5%
This makes me very optimistic about getting high performance gaming laptops with good battery life. Really looking forward to the likes of Zephyrus G16 or even Blade 18 with 265K or 285K paired with an RTX 5080
My first couple of gaming rigs between 2000 to 2010 were AMD builds. After 2010 starting with Core 2 Duo, I've been with Intel. I would go back to AMD if 9800X3D blows Arrow Lake out of the water.
The Intel fan boys in their feelings about the doa part 😂 . Lets be realistic here: Intel has a lot of issues, and with the cancelation of certain product's and them being behind on their nodes, it wasn't looking good at all. Intel should do ok now that amd dropped the ball with ryzen 9000. Neither one of them made me want to upgrade from my 7950x or 12900k. Disappointing year for cpu launches.
You'd think with each passing year these fanboys would mature and gain wisdom, but no, just like these new Arrow Lake CPUs there's very little growth or advancement to found.
Negative clickbait trash..when it comes to these view-hungry youtubers its par for the course. If you want to invest in pc hardware, do your research and make a decision on your own, without the help of these youtubers. They only care about views.
A _somewhat_ informative video but the click-bait Title is really off-putting. It has been known for months that HT was gone. Intel has detailed the many reasons why. And you get the same performance at up to 165W less of system power. If your only metric is how many frames you can get in Cyberpunk @ 1440p then you really should just focus on your graphics card. However, if you need fast productivity workloads and just occasionally game, then this CPU could be a good upgrade.
You are correct, there aren't many surprises here but what WAS a surprise is that Intel is failing to beat previous generation CPUs in gaming. Like I said, YES the power savings can be a huge benefit but these are enthusiast CPUs that are being targeted towards power users and in that space, the jury is still out about what's more of a priority, performance or power consumption.
I am hoping Intel can come back, If it is all just AMD then you get what AMD has done with their 9000 series chips where they are not worth it and waiting for the x3d variant to fix the issue. without competition AMD will become no different than any other OEM who does not have to compete
@@HardwareCanucks I did and I wasn't triggered, just disappointed by such a huge youtube channel when they use such unnecessary and misleading titles to further stir up a company's dismay even if their new product is good. Don't forget to add "DOA Already? Maybe not" to the next AMD line 👍
Specs: The Arrow Lake-S lineup consists of three models: the Ultra 9, Ultra 7, and Ultra 5. The Ultra 9 has 24 cores and 24 threads, the Ultra 7 has 16 cores and 16 threads, and the Ultra 5 has 12 cores and 12 threads. All models have a maximum clock speed of 5.8 GHz. Performance: The Arrow Lake-S is slightly faster than the previous generation Raptor Lake-S in single-threaded performance but falls behind in multi-threaded performance. In gaming, the Arrow Lake-S is about on par with the Raptor Lake-S. Power consumption: The Arrow Lake-S is more power-efficient than the Raptor Lake-S. Price: The Arrow Lake-S is priced similarly to the Raptor Lake-S. Other features: The Arrow Lake-S supports DDR5-6400 memory, PCIe Gen 5, and Thunderbolt 4. It also has an integrated NPU. He concludes that the Arrow Lake-S is a good chip but not a revolutionary one. It is a solid upgrade from the Raptor Lake-S but not a must-have for most users.
AMD keep pushing high prices with zen5 crap cpus!! they will be slower in both gaming and productivity vs arrow lake and only x3d will have some advantage
Me: Maybe I'll wait another year.
My 7700K: I'm tired, boss.
Dude i still on 4790,i keep delaying upgrade bcs no game that i really want to play.
je Xoun
Any cheap Celeron is better, APU games !
I jumped ship to a 7700x and I am happy I did. There is no reason to limit yourself to one cpu maker...
Man, 7800X3D was so cheap not long ago 😅😅
9800x3d is coming out in 2024.
So your telling me that both AMD and Intel built a new generation of CPUs for the 99 percent of folks who either buy OEM machines or who don't plan to buy a 5090.
The tech involved helps both companies in the data center market.
Amazing - logic was used
The high end chips from both companies are great for heavily threaded loads.
AMD is even producing the 9800X3D for gamers with a 5090.
Its the low end and mid range chips that seem kind of meh - pricy and not any better for their use case.
90 percent of this market would be fine with a cheap 12th gen Intel or a 5000 AMD CPU
Maybe if this channel and several other channels realized that computers are useful for things other than gaming they'd have done a better job discussing computer tech.
@@ZiggyMercuryto be fair most of them are gaming focused
@@ZiggyMercury It's really tiring, there's very few (larger sized) channels to find a good, plain discussion of computer hardware, or finding a perspective on new hardware that isn't just for gaming.
@@ZiggyMercurywatch a different channel then.. 95% of people watching care about gaming only, polls have been done
I don't understand Intel's strategy here. But maybe this is just a stopgap generation until 18A is up and running..
Well... it's looking more and more like the 9950X3D is going to be the way forward for me. I was interested in seeing how these new chips perform, but seeing the platform and connectivity that's supported on the new boards is... disappointing.
Yep, same. Q1 is when it AMD ships that along with NVIDIA launching the 5XXX series. New year, new build!
@@fachasaurus Yeah, I'm just biding my time until then. I've already started buy the non-platform dependent parts. All I need to see what the B850 board have to offer compared to the 870 boards. Should be a pretty decent upgrade from my 5950X/3080 Ti.
A M D SUCKS
So what?
Next gen Intel could make more gains in gaming performance. While 9950x3d might only get 5% over 4000x3d. Wait till 5000rtx comes out, should see some good benchmarks of these new CPUs.
I heard a TON of people saying that big.LITTLE wasn't well suited for the desktop, but here we are on the fourth generation with it. Once we got past the hiccups it had it had at first it was great.
comment section is full of intel haters. should rename the channel to AMD lobby
Rumours already saying that new motherboards cost more than last gen... So it's even worse even if the price is right... Motherboards alone holding back this new generation CPUs for the past 2 year... It's sad that they are not addressing price control for motherboards...
Or its because Z790 boards have gradually fallen in price...
@@HardwareCanucks yea lol its the same pattern it has always been
More features = higher price but for AM5 you don't need to spend that much £200 gets you a deadly motherboard
With rising costs, most of us can't afford to buy into a new platform each time we upgrade
There is a large benefit to an NPU. You can offload AI processing while doing graphics processing at the same time. Think, AI in video games.
It's also much easier to integrate because AI on the GPU requires the user to install a complex bulky CUDA runtime manually while intel NPUs are supported out of the box. It's pretty cool
maybe yeah. but that's really because we are told that x is going to do y better. in reality, there is no real 'why' are we using these things. before a cpu was a cpu. it did everything for anyone, but got faster. today we are told ai is better here, but what is ai?
@@albertcamus6611 what they mean is just acceleration of the specific linear algebra functions used in neural network algorithms.
If you run the AI on the CPU, other things like physics and game logic are significantly impacted.
If you run it on the GPU, you will only be able to draw half as many frames because the GPU is occupied doing AI. It also massively limits the available VRAM for graphics processing, while system RAM is typically abundant
SHHHH! The hivemind has already decided that AI = bad.
We all know that "nobody" runs AI workloads now, which means that "nobody" will ever run them in the future, making the tech dead before it even existed.
Well I was always using intel but now I might actually want to go AMD as an enthusiast
@@TopPotato109 get an 9800x3d if you gaming
I always thought that a high-end computer is useful also for things like huge excel sheets, demanding code, video and photo editing and so forth. But, judging by this video (and videos from many other channels), apparently they're only useful for gaming. I guess I'll run my huge Excel sheets on a PlayStation...
I dedicated almost as much time to the power efficiency and real world usage scenarios as I did for gaming. So yeah... ;)
Too busy ready excel sheets to pay attention to that part of the video. @HardwareCanucks
My Ryzen 9 5950X is still amazing
My intel 9900k is still amazing 🙄
@@junior-OG not quite
@@ABYTE64 lol
@@junior-OG like 11900k would be fine but not your junk
@@ABYTE64Very harsh lol. I’m a 9900k’er too, but it’s 6 years old already. I think it’s time to upgrade to the Core Ultra 9.
Literally DoA... Just disable HyperThreading on 14900K and you get EXACT SAME values! One word: trash!
this series looks perfectly fitted for bigger laptop cpus that lunar lake doesn't cover, but lunar lake already covers the name 285 for laptops. this is stupid, they should put an arrow lake into big gaming laptops, that's where they can shine
285 is not taken by lunar lake and Arrow Lake laptops for high performance + gaming are coming very soon.
if you wanted to buy a 14900K but didn't want to buy a time bomb CPU, this is the answer. same perf as 14900K (give or take a few %) but at lower power. I am want to see what 9800X3D has to offer.
No Intel socket support for 2026😂 Underwhelming gaming benchmarks. 9800x3d is right around the corner. For gamers intel arrow lake is DOA.
idiot fanboy!!😂😂😂😂
This release is so shady. If they the thermals are that much lower ofc the first thing overclockers are going to do is take the termals the what their cooler's rated for. Why not just give us those numbers out of the box? I'm thinking it's because it won't stack up
It seems that these CPUs are the same as 13th and 14th gen but without multithreading. Doesn't concern me, i'll be upgrading my 7950X3D to 9950X3D when it comes out. In the meantime i'll put in a new ASRock X870E Nova WiFi mobo in my RiG while and see how it works with my 7950X3D while i wait for the 9950X3D.
Guess I'll keep my 7800X3D for a while longer then. 😃
Wait, replace the GPU first now !
is that old CPU bottlenecking that 50909 Ti ? Or do i need thAT intel Core UltrA Pro gamers Thing now ?????
Are we just forgetting that Intel completely ducked up 2 generations of CPUs?
They’re dead, just done for
I’m not hyped, I expected lower wattage but AMD already had it with the previous generation.
But they aren't. The lion's share of issues were concentrated on the flagship SKU's. The 13700K / 14700K and below weren't affected.
@@HardwareCanucks You need to clean your glasses, because I read that all skus were affected
@@thetechrealist It's all 65W and up Raptor Lake-based SKUs on 13/14th gen that are affected (important emphasis on Raptor Lake based because there are some Alder Lake dies in some SKUs which are NOT affected).
@@rayw8252 Tomato Tomato, it's all the same, nobody can trust Intel for at least 2 generations...
@@HardwareCanucks *YIKES*, I hope this is sarcasm. Intel stated it affected any CPU with a TDP of 65 watts or greater.
Maybe less time spent making tombstone thumbnails for products that haven't shipped and more time educating yourself on the 13/14th gen situation is in order.
It was designed "to put efficiency before overall performance" 🤣
Is that a slogan from Intel marketing slides? The only ground up thing here is related to using TSMC fabs now so obviously some redesign had to be made. And since now the cost of the silicon is out of their hands, they had to go the same route they were laughing about 7 years ago - gluing chips together to save some pennies.
For Intel tho doing Tick (proces node change) and Tock (u arch change to fit that totally unknown node and tile splitting) was probably the most brave move in the history of their company, so well yeah, let them have the credit 😄
The efficiency came solely from using latest and greatest 3nm process node from TSMC for the core tiles and they fact that they had to exchange any measurable performance gains to achieve this is quite sad in my opinion.
I don't doubt those CPU's will be good for some use cases, mostly productivity workloads while gaming had to be put down in priority, it's something like Zen1 day for Intel, which might be the best thing they did in decade.
Let's see on the actual real world performance reviews, to find out if it's time to get some discounted Intel stocks.
Wow! What a miss. MS requires 40+ TOPs NPU to be certified. Arrow Lake tops at 36 Tops.
Error Lake is here
you dont really need an ultra 9 285k/14900k to game if you are squeezing and fighting for 4-8 fps, maybe you should consider upgrading the gpu instead rather than a whole new plattform, the fact that the arrow lake does the same than a 14900k in games while consuming way less power its an excellent win, less power, less heat, less electricity bill, edit: (yes im aware we can no longer expect the techological jumps we used to have in the past, double-triple digit performance upgrade, we are barely scrapping by 3-8% upgrades each generation, for that the only answer i think that can be said is: time can only tell, and dont open your wallets so eagerly every time XYZ company announces a doodad for their doodads)
Yeah that's what Intel did before Ryzen now they are both doing it is not that they can't is that there is people who would say "is okay" and buy this sh*t
Intel's Arrow Lake S lineup is a fascinating pivot towards efficiency, and I find it refreshing! While some may dismiss it as underwhelming, the focus on power consumption and heat management is a bold move in today’s eco-conscious landscape. The absence of SMT might raise eyebrows, but it could lead to a more streamlined performance that prioritizes real-world applications over raw numbers. Sure, it may not outpace the 14900K in gaming, but the upgraded XE LPG graphics core and the introduction of an NPU signal Intel's commitment to innovation. This could be the start of a new era!
Well here's the thing...we don't actually know what the real story is. Yes, efficiency when gaming and in lightly threaded workloads seems to have increased by an order of magnitude. But what I want to know is if these chips still hit 250W in all core workload situations and close to that in games like Cyberpunk (14900K before came close to 200W in that one). If that's the case its a smaller victory than we hope. Likely thing is that Intel's going to use a sliding scale to determine all core workload power.
Zen 4 and 5 accomplish this.
@@HardwareCanucks I get where you’re coming from, but the shift to efficiency doesn’t need to mean sacrificing performance across the board. Even if Arrow Lake’s power draw hits high levels under certain all-core workloads, Intel's approach seems less about dominating every single metric and more about optimizing for the tasks that most people care about day-to-day. As for gaming? The majority of titles won’t come close to pushing that kind of wattage. We need to appreciate that Intel is laying the groundwork for a smarter balance between power and performance, instead of just throwing more cores and heat at the problem.
@@JoeL-xk6bowith ass encoders, APUs and features, AMD is and will always be only for gaming until they get their shit together
how much they payin you bro
AMD chose a wise step with leaving cores and threads and adding 3d cache, Intel fucked up with their semi-efficient Ecores - in before they are mobile cpus at best.
The E-Cores were an interesting addition and they still are but Windows is such a mess with scheduling it will probably still take a couple of generations until Microsoft gets it right.
@@HardwareCanucks Intel doesn`t have so much time with everything going around it right now 😒
intel going from 'intel 7' to tsmc 3nm could only squeeze out 5-10% single thread gain and 10-20% multi thread gain?
amd ryzen going from tsmc 7 (zen2, say 3800x) to tsmc 4 (zen5, 9700x) single thread performance went up 70%, multi thread up 60%.
where did all that process gain go for intel?
oto, 6nm io chiplet/tile support 8000mhz memory is nice.
I am now currently thinking of trying to be a Linux user (OpenSUSE Tumbleweed) with full AMD hardware.
If 9800x3d is great and RDNA 4 is great and power efficient (because electricity bills sucks in my country), I might just jump into Linux (to start learning it before W10 EOL).
I have an unstable 14900KS. I can get my money back and get another cpu but I have to buy a new mother board to do so. I have a Arctic Freezer 420 so cooling is decent and a 4090. I play mostly games but play with some LLMs and Stable Difussion and virtual machines. What do you guys think I should do? If I get a left over motherboard I think I will get a cheaper CPU and build a little server with my current Z790 board. I am thinking about getting a 9800X3D if it comes out this fall.
It depends. Are you relying on the CPU for those LLMs and Stable Diffusion or are you using TensorRT? Because if its through TensorRT, CPU speed doesn't matter as much as GPU horsepower anyways.
@@HardwareCanucks Yes it's GPU accelerated but usually takes some cpu too and all models over 24GB use cpu offload to hold the memory.
I highly doubt that Intel's market share in the consumer desktop market will grow with ARL and they were already at 8% at Mindfactory lately. No AVX 10.2/AVX-512 and no gaming performance improvements won't get them anywhere and the efficiency improvements alone won't get them much sales either. There is also no incentive to invest into LGA18XX as a platform, as the chances are high that there is no newer generation on that socket.
Why the need for clickbait negativity to drive more views?
Where's the clickbait? It is an open ended "maybe not?" It poses a question, it doesn't make a statement. Nice try though!
Because more dramatic titles make more views. Its not clickbait though, actually quite accurate representation of the situation.
@@HardwareCanucks The word DOA and the tombstone thumbnail immediately drives a negative response, thus making more likely for people to click on the video. You know what you did.
@@ktwei It refers to the point that the chip is worse at gaming than its predecessor and the platform will only get one generation of processors. Thats why its a hypothetical question in the title.
It’s definitely clickbait - it’s hyperbolic and begging for attention with the tombstone and word choice. Whether or not it’s posed as an interrogative makes no difference - that’s an invalid defense. Combining a history of that with their immature replies on viewer comments is a good way to lose subscribers.
Atleast AMD cpu works on the same socket.
100000%, two whole generations.
That's many, many more than Intel, which only supported 12/13/14th gen on LGA1700.
Don't even get me STARTED on TR40 and sTR40. Those saw so many generations that it was ridiculous.
15:36 true If I wnt efficiency I buy a MacBook not a huge PC with a radiator and 13 fans n shit
I'll stay on my AMD AM5 platform & Apple M chips for my laptop. intel is deat to me after 13 & 14th gen CPUs & all the issues both game me. No more Intel for me...
Pretty bad, the reason to upgrade now is really PCIE5, but and the hope that they realize nobody cares about power consumption and release something better for the same socket. A lot of ifs to jump in now, and wasted money as you would likely upgrade in a year. So the question is really can you wait another year before upgrading.
Lower power while gaming is a really good thing that you should care about. But yeah, Intel needs a balls-to-the-wall gaming CPU.
Lol its more efficient than prev gen, but what even far more efficient and fast in games - 7800x3d
I just want to see the i3 get an update from the 12100.
AMD gave us many small steps, intel will give us a big leap again now !
On the same levels as the Core Extreme launch back then.
TLDR: 9800X3D or 7800x3d. 9950x3d if AMD puts v cache on both CCDs.
I bet you that 14900K will be the best bang for buck in 6 months when it's so cheap on unwated due to crash gate.
AMD have now huge shoes to fill with the 9950X3D now
I think this processor is great for MS surface and still provide good graphics performance. But microsoft did choose the U series which is slow and less igpu performance maybe comparable with old generation. 🤦🏻♂️
IMO Microsoft should have used Lunar Lake in their Surface devices.
13:15 let’s hope some games start using the NPU for something but then again it might be better to do all that on the GPU 🤷♂️. Yes little stupid on a desktop PC, would make sense to offload some tasks to this NPU for power saving on a laptop or smaller pc but yeah idk
14900k + mobo + ram for $450 coming soon on microcenter
CRASHES COMING SOON ALSO ! LOL
Mike sounds REALLY disappointed in this video,especially in that intro.
DOA
If ryzen5x3D would happen Intel is cooked
Fucking hell.... TSMC dominance is getting bully levels
For me this CPU is DOA. Being 21% slower in Cyberpunk 2077 than 14900k running in baseline is a f. joke. Imagine against my 345W custom cooled 5.7/4.6 DDR5 8200 14900k -> 30%+ difference. Folks, there is nothing here for gamers. If I disable HT on my CPU, it can run 6.2/4.6 and won't go over 200W. Arrow Lake is absolute trash in my opinion. According to Intel slide Arrow Lake vs Raptor Lake baseline uses only 80W less of total system power. 80W means f. squat, that is nothing. I bet you this junk will be so aggressive on switching tasks to E cores thus saving power, what a latency shit show. I bet you a lot of games will just run on E cores. If you are in a market get 9800X3D for gaming or 9950X3D for more processing power. Skip this Intel junk. If you already have Zen 4 or 14900k skip this generation and get Nvidia 5090.
No Intel socket support for 2026😂 underwhelming gaming benchmarks. AMD 9800x3d release date 2024. For gamers intel arrow lake is DOA.
So basicly wait for the 9800X3D if you're a gamer, and if you already got the 7800X3D skip this gen :)
Civilization as a benchmark game? Are you serious?
Great, you got a better single core and have more FPS in a static top down view.
How about the time to process a big map with lots of bots with half the threads?
Half the threads? 24?
I can run my 14900k on DDR5 9000, so what is exactly Intel's point? 10:49 -> there is no overclocking for this junk. Remember it uses the TSMC process which is horrible for overclocking just like an AMD chip. There is no performance to squeeze out of this junk.
The 9800X3D it is…
Not exist
You guys aren't seeing something, i think we might see some laptop manufacturers cram the ultra 9 into laptops
There will be a whole Arrow Lake H / HX series coming at CES....
@@HardwareCanucks I'm talking about actual desktop parts being in laptops, we've seen it before but I think they'll be more common.
You are not correct about NPU here. Its the same story as it was in the begging with RTX. Everyone was saying it was useless blablabla. Well, to this day 2080 RTX is a pretty solid card that can play a lot of games. Same story with NPU - yes you can use GPU for that, but any AI task requirers a lot of RAM and you simply cant combine gaming and running LLM at the same time. Even with RTX 4090 - today. Yes I have tried. Soon there will be progressive generated games which use local NPU for everything from NPU generation, to on-the-fly textures etc. This is also why performance upgrade at this stage is useless, as Intel knows that as soon as first AAA games which requires NPU hit the marked, Intel will be just as nvidia - the only option for high-end gamer.
I think you are thinking of it the wrong way. The original RTX cards were amazing raster cards in their own right and as additional RT titles came out their first gen RT cores proved themselves to be woefully underpowered. They needed other tech like DLSS to prop them up and even then fell flat on their faces. They were also the only game in town for RT acceleration whereas in a system with an Ultra 200S, there are AI accelerators in the GPU and to a lesser extent in the CPU cores as well. They added something here that won't be used for years, if ever simply because its so under-performant even today, very early in the AI acceleration age.
@@HardwareCanucks I will come back to this video and comment in 2-3 years time - Im sure your opinion will change.
Intel's Bulldozer moment?
Not al all IMO. There's still a ton of great things going on here and Bulldozer was just a disaster all around.
@@HardwareCanucks Apart from security bugs decrease due to not using HT and lower power draw due to the manufacturing process improved, what else is better? Pricing, platform longegivity or huge jump in performance? None.
I really feel for the engineers, having to work out a solution a year late and transitioning from failed Intel fabs. It's a patchwork quilt, a shame when TSMC 3 nm is so good. They're saving cost here, but priced higher than expected. We needed a 8P+8E package, under 200 W, at $300 US.
Personally, while these are billed as gaming first CPUs to enthusiasts (or at least they were in the past), the addition of things like a half-decent iGPU and NPU points towards Arrow Lake being an "everything" product. What Intel needs to offset this approach is a dedicated gaming CPU. Maybe something with a pure 10-16 P-Cores and tons of cache backing it up.
@HardwareCanucks They're in quite a predicament honestly, the next moves are crucial. Agreed, a future all P-core design, abandoning big.LITTLE might save this market segment. Also agreed, this successor to Lunar Lake is pointed towards the SoC mainstream. It may all be a bit too late. They are still in a position for more aggressive pricing for the time being, despite the financial woes.
@HardwareCanucks yeap its a good at everything but doesn't stand out on anything. To be fair to the mass market, that's a good thing. As long as they don't have issues, they will make money with oems no problem.
As for gaming, I would like to see a "ks" version, but just P cores to take on the r7 x3d chips, 8 cores vs 8 cores.
They kept trying to fight a purpose built 8 core x3d with their all-around halo product and don't think that's a good idea.
AHAHAHAHAHA HA HA HHAH AHHA i just thinking the new artic freezer III just become obsolete because the lga 1700 frame is not ccompatible
Intel who? What!?
Don't think its Game Over at all. The focus in efficiency is excessively important as we said.
@@HardwareCanucks You don't think its game over? You're talking about an improvement in efficiency like its the 2nd coming of Christ! Customers have efficiency of CPU's at the very bottom of their list...You would advise someone looking to purchase one of these ultra intel CPU's over AMD why exactly? In this video you seem like you're trying you're best at damage limitation & clever semantics...
@@HardwareCanucks Efficiency is for future AI..
Hopefully Bartlett Lake isnt canned i can turn my spare rig into a slick Linux rig.
The question is though....if Arrow Lake is already hitting $600 and Bartlett comes out for LGA1700...it would retail for what? $700? Price inflation is a scary thing.
it's cancelled.
@@JoeL-xk6bo damn then I'll have stick with a 14900KF.
So the next gen of desktop CPUs to answer the problems issssssssss, ladies and gentlemen,,,,,,, No hyperthreading and better power consumption (cough 250w load while boosting cough) so your DESKTOP BATTERY will last longer now, and less frequency.
main question is how much Intel lies in their benches !! i hope not so much as AMD does on CES and further and then on bigger amount of games and tasks it was not even zen5%
where's the other laptop guy?
Working on laptop content. ;)
This makes me very optimistic about getting high performance gaming laptops with good battery life. Really looking forward to the likes of Zephyrus G16 or even Blade 18 with 265K or 285K paired with an RTX 5080
My first couple of gaming rigs between 2000 to 2010 were AMD builds. After 2010 starting with Core 2 Duo, I've been with Intel. I would go back to AMD if 9800X3D blows Arrow Lake out of the water.
npu is useless , it’s not like smartphones that doing some ai magic on photos, why rushing to make npu?
What RAM speed was intel using in these benchmarks? 6400MT/s ? Wonder how the 285K will perform with CUDIMM 9600MT/s and a little overclock.
The Intel fan boys in their feelings about the doa part 😂 . Lets be realistic here: Intel has a lot of issues, and with the cancelation of certain product's and them being behind on their nodes, it wasn't looking good at all.
Intel should do ok now that amd dropped the ball with ryzen 9000. Neither one of them made me want to upgrade from my 7950x or 12900k. Disappointing year for cpu launches.
They literally read the first four words of the title and rage posted. Its hilarious.
Who among us is daring enough to pick up a "barely used" 14700K for $200 and rock it long-term with full-updated microcode & BIOS?
X3D > ARL
You'd think with each passing year these fanboys would mature and gain wisdom, but no, just like these new Arrow Lake CPUs there's very little growth or advancement to found.
I want 7ghz stable. End of conversation. If my 12600k runs at 5.1 Ghz stable, I don't need to upgrade until I see real numbers.
AMD will do a price drop soon 😂😂
Negative clickbait trash..when it comes to these view-hungry youtubers its par for the course. If you want to invest in pc hardware, do your research and make a decision on your own, without the help of these youtubers. They only care about views.
A _somewhat_ informative video but the click-bait Title is really off-putting. It has been known for months that HT was gone. Intel has detailed the many reasons why. And you get the same performance at up to 165W less of system power. If your only metric is how many frames you can get in Cyberpunk @ 1440p then you really should just focus on your graphics card. However, if you need fast productivity workloads and just occasionally game, then this CPU could be a good upgrade.
You are correct, there aren't many surprises here but what WAS a surprise is that Intel is failing to beat previous generation CPUs in gaming. Like I said, YES the power savings can be a huge benefit but these are enthusiast CPUs that are being targeted towards power users and in that space, the jury is still out about what's more of a priority, performance or power consumption.
I am hoping Intel can come back, If it is all just AMD then you get what AMD has done with their 9000 series chips where they are not worth it and waiting for the x3d variant to fix the issue. without competition AMD will become no different than any other OEM who does not have to compete
AMD won the race.
Looks lackluster AF and if the rumors are true this is a 1 generation socket that’s ALOT of cash for mid to no improvements
Just unsubbed
DOA already? Why joke about that in the title, so misleading for millions of viewers..
Did you read the whole title or were you just triggered by the first four words?
@@HardwareCanucks I did and I wasn't triggered, just disappointed by such a huge youtube channel when they use such unnecessary and misleading titles to further stir up a company's dismay even if their new product is good. Don't forget to add "DOA Already? Maybe not" to the next AMD line 👍
@@HardwareCanucks Click bait, asshole, can you get it?!
@@Quantumfluxfield Fanboy alert.
@@AleraKira I've actually had 3 AMD cpus and 3 Intel, I must be an extreme fanboy of both 👍
People stll care about intel in 2024?
Lmfao dude wants AMD to have an x86 CPU monopoly
Why wouldn't they?
Yes, is the only cpu chip maker outside Asia so yes. Also prevents amd from ripping your wallet, just as nvdia
3
2nd here!
great
Great
1st here
Specs: The Arrow Lake-S lineup consists of three models: the Ultra 9, Ultra 7, and Ultra 5. The Ultra 9 has 24 cores and 24 threads, the Ultra 7 has 16 cores and 16 threads, and the Ultra 5 has 12 cores and 12 threads. All models have a maximum clock speed of 5.8 GHz.
Performance: The Arrow Lake-S is slightly faster than the previous generation Raptor Lake-S in single-threaded performance but falls behind in multi-threaded performance. In gaming, the Arrow Lake-S is about on par with the Raptor Lake-S.
Power consumption: The Arrow Lake-S is more power-efficient than the Raptor Lake-S.
Price: The Arrow Lake-S is priced similarly to the Raptor Lake-S.
Other features: The Arrow Lake-S supports DDR5-6400 memory, PCIe Gen 5, and Thunderbolt 4. It also has an integrated NPU.
He concludes that the Arrow Lake-S is a good chip but not a revolutionary one. It is a solid upgrade from the Raptor Lake-S but not a must-have for most users.
@@mathew699 wow amazing AI summary right? ffs
@xeon2k8 You can lead an AI to water, but you can't keep it from drowning itself trying to drink with its hooves.
AMD keep pushing high prices with zen5 crap cpus!! they will be slower in both gaming and productivity vs arrow lake and only x3d will have some advantage
from intel 7 to TSMC 3 and to lose to 2 years old X3D CPU in gaming and efficiency 🤡
also one gen MBs 🫠 ULTRA ... REGRESSION
DOA