Okay that was much better explained than the last video on this I watched lol, very understandable and helpful. I imagine this is maybe why my front cooler master sickle fans are so loud... they're airflow fans with a lot of hard drive stuff in front of them to get through.. I'm not entirely sure why that's a bad thing.. but does anyone think that's why my fans are sooo dang loud? I saw the "BitFenix Spectre Pro 120mm Black Fan" and it's silent and really looks like a static fan.. but it's designed as an airflow fan.. odd..
Great! Fans typically are loud if they don't have ample space in front of them to get air, but regardless all fans do get louder as they're mounted against something.
Dans Tech - Would you say an airflow fan in that situation would be louder than a static fan? I have found a number of fans that are pretty dang silent.. but they're all airflow fans (from a shop in Australia I'm buying from).. would those silent airflow fans still be rather quiet with a bunch of hard drive stuff in front of them? or would you say that would make them too loud to be rather quiet? Any help would be super appreciated since I'm rather new to fan knowledge lol I'm looking mainly at the: Be Quiet! fans and the bitfenix specre pro (even though they aren't static fans)..
Hi, there are a lot of fans out there. As I said, static pressure fans are typically better in places where there is not much room or if you're pushing air through a radiator if you're into watercooling. I will say though, this is in general. Some companies make some remarkable fans and I could imagine some airflow fans from company A been better than static pressure fans from company B.
Dans Tech - That makes sense, I decided to go with Corsair Air Series fans quiet edition, 2 static pressure on the front and an airflow on the back, push the air through the drive cages better.. and they still have good airflow regardless so yea.
So i wonder, how would you go about measuring fan pressure at home? I imagine you'd need some kind of container and manometer? Could a manometer simply be a piece of tubing with some water in it? I can't help but think that airflow might simply never be relevant, neither in intake nor in exhaust fans. I mean, if you have anything in your PC at all, all the kinetic energy that the air has from your intake fan will be dissipated anyway, because the air will hit something sooner or later. But it must keep moving to exit the case again, and this will be driven by pressure difference. Similarly, if we're talking exhaust fan, there is usually no way there would be a direct path from intake to exhaust. You would think that the only case for airflow optimization would be a heatsink fan, because it only circulates the air around one component; however that can't be the case either, because a heatsink is generally a severe obstruction, it has closely spaced fins.
I'm not entirely sure i understand all that you are asking, but for the first question, it's way simpler than you think. You just need to place a strip of toilet paper after the fan and the object that obstructs it's airflow (like a dust filter, heatsink, etc) and see the angle at which the paper tilts. Of course, you can calculate the mass of the paper strip, or simply compare the angle with the one you get from an unobstructed fan, and knowing the CFM of the fan you should find out how much air pressure you have after getting the air trough a filter, etc.. (i'm not expecting the relation between the angle and CFM to be liniar) Second of all, airflow is quite relevant, as you have to direct it trough the components that need it the most. Also, the types of pressure in your case have a direct impact on dust(but filters are just as important). For example, having filters on your intake fans is great, but if your exhaust fans pull out more air than the intake filtered ones get in, some unfiltered dusty air will enter trough different openings that are unfiltered (mainly the small holes present on the back of the case close to the GPU slots-where applicable, the absence of an IO shield on the MOBO, and so on) So, ideally, we want more air pushed into the case, in order for all the small cracks present trough the case to become small exhaust point, so we have air moving and pushing around trough all the case, which will eliminate some "dead" spots where air is not moving and dust can gather up. On the other hand, having more air being pulled out should improve thermals in specific cases, considering the air is flowing around key components. So, bottom line: *POSITIVE* (more intake pressure) *PRESSURE: * -easy to obtain with great overall airflow to all components -less dust (helped a lot by filtered intake) -still great temperatures, if air is directed correctly *NEGATIVE* (more exhaust pressure) *PRESSURE: * -harder to get, considering optimal air directions -more dust -high risk for "dead" spots -better temperatures considering we have optimal air direction(s) - yes, you need to take into account from where every fan will suck out air If anyone has anything to add, of if i get something wrong, please let me know.
would you say Static Pressure would perform okay at exhausting air regardless? I'm doing a build for a friend and was just gonna grab a couple cheaper (not cheap) fans to exhaust air, but have trusted quality like Corsairs but not have any impingement on any top exhausts for his NZXT S340. I was possibly gonna take the 2 included ones and put them in the front however it is enclosed, so maybe the Static Pressure fans would be more suited to be in the front where there is zero to none air intake? I don't know as I type this if there is very good bottom air intake real estate (in lack of a better term), so I would just like to know if they are worth picking up for impinged front air flow (there is no opening but I can still install some where a rad would go for more airflow overall), or for better exhaust and a nice LED effect.
Bootskoot589 Hi, yes static pressure fans should do good in your case. If you are unsure on which to use in a given situation, using static pressure fans will ensure you at least get some airflow moved to the desired location. While airflow fans may struggle in some situations, but will excel when there is a clear source or air behind them. Dan.
Cool video. Question. I am building my first pc and i accidently bought a 120 ml static pressure fan for the exhaust in the back of my S340 case. Can it still be used there or will i see temperature changes?
which fan is suitable to achieve maximum suction pressure?. Another question i am simulating this fan in nozzle(plane engine). Which direction of rotation can i achieve maximum suction pressure ? Finally, where is the fan inlet and outlet if i am achieving suction pressure?
Thanks for the support Hashim, and i also enjoy making these tech videos. I like to know I'm educating you guys on these topics some people don't usually cover here on UA-cam :)
I want to install two fans for exhaust at the top. Unfortunately, the output is vaguely blocked by the dust filters and case handle. Should I get fans optimized for air flow or static pressure here?
If I list some specs for a PC I have thought about building, will u have a quick run through and tell me if it would work correctly please? If you have the time?
Hi, i really don't have the time to check through components, however i have a playlist here of the best gaming PC builds for June 2014 that should be of help. There is a build for every budget possible :) ua-cam.com/play/PLOen9_vSbQov5tKWptDzclieWVZam66RC.html
just post it here as a reply to me and I can take a quick look :D If you want you can tell me what price range you're thinking of, how you want it to perform, and answer some other questions then I can give you a suggested parts list ;D
If you want me to suggest a build then answer these questions... - What price range are you thinking of? - How good performance do you want? (use BF4 as a benchmark so it's easier to find the right parts... "I want a PC that can play BF4 at ultra, 1080p with 60fps or higher") - what form factor do you want? (ATX, m-ATX, m-ITX, full tower, midtower etc...) - How much do you care about looks, and are there any color combinations you really like? - How much do you care about upgradebility? do you want it to perform the best it can now for the price or do you want room to upgrade more later on?
When testing the static pressure of a fan it's pressed up against a plate that measures the pressure. A fan with poor static pressure when pushed up against that plate is basically just moving the air around in circles instead of through and against the plate. Same goes for when it's pressed up against a mesh, grate, grill, radiator, etc. If you have an inch between the fan and obstructions it should move air just fine. Static P is measured and meant for only when something is right up against the fan. Also neither one of those fans have good airflow or staticP at 1500RPMs. Respectively they're both 55CFM and 1.5mmH20 and 0.75mmH2O. StaticP fans NEED a gap in order for the air to go somewhere when pressed flat against something otherwise it will just swirl the air in circles. Cougar Vortex's CF-V12HP 1500RPM fan has 70CFM and 2.2 mmH20 at only $12 each. The Noctua NF-F12 1500RPM has 55CFM 2.6 mmH20 at $20 each. Both have a large gap, it's utter nonsense. And the ones that seem like they have a small gap really just have an angled lip kinda like the fan is within a cone that tapers to the exhaust side to make up for the lack of gap. Noctua fans are known for their pressure and all have large gaps or the outer edge of the fan blade is curved so the whole blade isn't pressed up against the edge of it's enclosure. i.ibb.co/jynvsP2/27858674-1788276124557516-3939125916088125000-n-1.jpg
Reason that one fan has shitty static is cause of the blade design. Like the EK Varder's blade design at 1850RPMs it has worse static than cheaper fans at 1500RPM. That spiral design is just awful...
Hi TrtleQ, MasterJkpatrick is right, the easiest way to have positive pressure is to have more fans intaking air than outtaking. In my case i have 2 120mm intakes in the top, 1 200mm in take at the front, and 1 120mm at the rear as an exhaust.
It depends on your case, but generally speaking you want positive air pressure in your case to keep dust out... however if you use unfiltered intakes it will do more harm than good... And it doesn't affect temps much, it's just to prevent some dust build-up... the way it works is that with positive air pressure you have more air coming into the case than what's being exhausted out by your other fans, this gives a positive air pressure and it will force air out all the little openings and holes in the case that are unfiltered and that is not a fan location, like the pci-e brackets... this means air will always be moving out through these spots and dust will in return not get in through them ;D Negative air pressure does the opposite, the case will passively suck in air wherever there's an opening and that air will bring in dust... the negative about positive air pressure is that if you use too many fans as intakes the pressure will start to fight the fans and cripple airflow ;D so try to get a slightly positive air pressure and try to use static pressure optimized fans as your intakes ;D
Okay that was much better explained than the last video on this I watched lol, very understandable and helpful. I imagine this is maybe why my front cooler master sickle fans are so loud... they're airflow fans with a lot of hard drive stuff in front of them to get through.. I'm not entirely sure why that's a bad thing.. but does anyone think that's why my fans are sooo dang loud?
I saw the "BitFenix Spectre Pro 120mm Black Fan" and it's silent and really looks like a static fan.. but it's designed as an airflow fan.. odd..
Great! Fans typically are loud if they don't have ample space in front of them to get air, but regardless all fans do get louder as they're mounted against something.
Dans Tech - Would you say an airflow fan in that situation would be louder than a static fan? I have found a number of fans that are pretty dang silent.. but they're all airflow fans (from a shop in Australia I'm buying from).. would those silent airflow fans still be rather quiet with a bunch of hard drive stuff in front of them? or would you say that would make them too loud to be rather quiet?
Any help would be super appreciated since I'm rather new to fan knowledge lol
I'm looking mainly at the: Be Quiet! fans and the bitfenix specre pro (even though they aren't static fans)..
Hi, there are a lot of fans out there. As I said, static pressure fans are typically better in places where there is not much room or if you're pushing air through a radiator if you're into watercooling. I will say though, this is in general. Some companies make some remarkable fans and I could imagine some airflow fans from company A been better than static pressure fans from company B.
Dans Tech - That makes sense, I decided to go with Corsair Air Series fans quiet edition, 2 static pressure on the front and an airflow on the back, push the air through the drive cages better.. and they still have good airflow regardless so yea.
Wow, simple video but great information. Thanks
So i wonder, how would you go about measuring fan pressure at home? I imagine you'd need some kind of container and manometer? Could a manometer simply be a piece of tubing with some water in it?
I can't help but think that airflow might simply never be relevant, neither in intake nor in exhaust fans. I mean, if you have anything in your PC at all, all the kinetic energy that the air has from your intake fan will be dissipated anyway, because the air will hit something sooner or later. But it must keep moving to exit the case again, and this will be driven by pressure difference. Similarly, if we're talking exhaust fan, there is usually no way there would be a direct path from intake to exhaust.
You would think that the only case for airflow optimization would be a heatsink fan, because it only circulates the air around one component; however that can't be the case either, because a heatsink is generally a severe obstruction, it has closely spaced fins.
I'm not entirely sure i understand all that you are asking, but for the first question, it's way simpler than you think. You just need to place a strip of toilet paper after the fan and the object that obstructs it's airflow (like a dust filter, heatsink, etc) and see the angle at which the paper tilts. Of course, you can calculate the mass of the paper strip, or simply compare the angle with the one you get from an unobstructed fan, and knowing the CFM of the fan you should find out how much air pressure you have after getting the air trough a filter, etc.. (i'm not expecting the relation between the angle and CFM to be liniar)
Second of all, airflow is quite relevant, as you have to direct it trough the components that need it the most. Also, the types of pressure in your case have a direct impact on dust(but filters are just as important). For example, having filters on your intake fans is great, but if your exhaust fans pull out more air than the intake filtered ones get in, some unfiltered dusty air will enter trough different openings that are unfiltered (mainly the small holes present on the back of the case close to the GPU slots-where applicable, the absence of an IO shield on the MOBO, and so on) So, ideally, we want more air pushed into the case, in order for all the small cracks present trough the case to become small exhaust point, so we have air moving and pushing around trough all the case, which will eliminate some "dead" spots where air is not moving and dust can gather up. On the other hand, having more air being pulled out should improve thermals in specific cases, considering the air is flowing around key components.
So, bottom line:
*POSITIVE* (more intake pressure) *PRESSURE: *
-easy to obtain with great overall airflow to all components
-less dust (helped a lot by filtered intake)
-still great temperatures, if air is directed correctly
*NEGATIVE* (more exhaust pressure) *PRESSURE: *
-harder to get, considering optimal air directions
-more dust
-high risk for "dead" spots
-better temperatures considering we have optimal air direction(s) - yes, you need to take into account from where every fan will suck out air
If anyone has anything to add, of if i get something wrong, please let me know.
would you say Static Pressure would perform okay at exhausting air regardless? I'm doing a build for a friend and was just gonna grab a couple cheaper (not cheap) fans to exhaust air, but have trusted quality like Corsairs but not have any impingement on any top exhausts for his NZXT S340. I was possibly gonna take the 2 included ones and put them in the front however it is enclosed, so maybe the Static Pressure fans would be more suited to be in the front where there is zero to none air intake? I don't know as I type this if there is very good bottom air intake real estate (in lack of a better term), so I would just like to know if they are worth picking up for impinged front air flow (there is no opening but I can still install some where a rad would go for more airflow overall), or for better exhaust and a nice LED effect.
Bootskoot589 Hi, yes static pressure fans should do good in your case. If you are unsure on which to use in a given situation, using static pressure fans will ensure you at least get some airflow moved to the desired location. While airflow fans may struggle in some situations, but will excel when there is a clear source or air behind them. Dan.
Dans Tech thanks for the response, good vid btw
Tnx.. help's a lot...
Fantastic video! Great job!
Cool video. Question. I am building my first pc and i accidently bought a 120 ml static pressure fan for the exhaust in the back of my S340 case. Can it still be used there or will i see temperature changes?
which fan is suitable to achieve maximum suction pressure?.
Another question i am simulating this fan in nozzle(plane engine). Which direction of rotation can i achieve maximum suction pressure ?
Finally, where is the fan inlet and outlet if i am achieving suction pressure?
The HDD drive Bay is located exactly behind my Front fan, so half of the air is going through the HDD bay: so is SP Recommended for This?
how about cooler master sickflow fan and jetflo?
which one is Static pressure and Air flow?
Even though there is no way I can get gaming pc cos of the price and the space to put it I still enjoy these type of videos
Thanks for the support Hashim, and i also enjoy making these tech videos. I like to know I'm educating you guys on these topics some people don't usually cover here on UA-cam :)
Today in IT I completely nerded out cos if ure gaming PC videos
Great video.. you just got yourself a new sub =)
I want to install two fans for exhaust at the top. Unfortunately, the output is vaguely blocked by the dust filters and case handle. Should I get fans optimized for air flow or static pressure here?
+Liangcheng He static pressure fans would do a better job. Dan.
tnx man
If I list some specs for a PC I have thought about building, will u have a quick run through and tell me if it would work correctly please? If you have the time?
Hi, i really don't have the time to check through components, however i have a playlist here of the best gaming PC builds for June 2014 that should be of help. There is a build for every budget possible :) ua-cam.com/play/PLOen9_vSbQov5tKWptDzclieWVZam66RC.html
just post it here as a reply to me and I can take a quick look :D If you want you can tell me what price range you're thinking of, how you want it to perform, and answer some other questions then I can give you a suggested parts list ;D
If you want me to suggest a build then answer these questions...
- What price range are you thinking of?
- How good performance do you want? (use BF4 as a benchmark so it's easier to find the right parts... "I want a PC that can play BF4 at ultra, 1080p with 60fps or higher")
- what form factor do you want? (ATX, m-ATX, m-ITX, full tower, midtower etc...)
- How much do you care about looks, and are there any color combinations you really like?
- How much do you care about upgradebility? do you want it to perform the best it can now for the price or do you want room to upgrade more later on?
When testing the static pressure of a fan it's pressed up against a plate that measures the pressure. A fan with poor static pressure when pushed up against that plate is basically just moving the air around in circles instead of through and against the plate.
Same goes for when it's pressed up against a mesh, grate, grill, radiator, etc. If you have an inch between the fan and obstructions it should move air just fine. Static P is measured and meant for only when something is right up against the fan.
Also neither one of those fans have good airflow or staticP at 1500RPMs. Respectively they're both 55CFM and 1.5mmH20 and 0.75mmH2O.
StaticP fans NEED a gap in order for the air to go somewhere when pressed flat against something otherwise it will just swirl the air in circles. Cougar Vortex's CF-V12HP 1500RPM fan has 70CFM and 2.2 mmH20 at only $12 each. The Noctua NF-F12 1500RPM has 55CFM 2.6 mmH20 at $20 each. Both have a large gap, it's utter nonsense. And the ones that seem like they have a small gap really just have an angled lip kinda like the fan is within a cone that tapers to the exhaust side to make up for the lack of gap. Noctua fans are known for their pressure and all have large gaps or the outer edge of the fan blade is curved so the whole blade isn't pressed up against the edge of it's enclosure.
i.ibb.co/jynvsP2/27858674-1788276124557516-3939125916088125000-n-1.jpg
Notice the gap between the fan and enclosure? Yeah.. big gaps=more pressure.
i.ibb.co/Yd496mn/65260452-10219550609894381-6240686720602341376-n-1.jpg
Video was well done but seems like you made up your own logic as to why one is a static and one is a cfm fan..
Reason that one fan has shitty static is cause of the blade design. Like the EK Varder's blade design at 1850RPMs it has worse static than cheaper fans at 1500RPM. That spiral design is just awful...
nice one
good vid dan i havnt even watched the vid yet
As always, appreciate the support Ben
MrDantheman2050 NP dan.
Someone once told me that I should have positive pressure, do you know how that works?
You have more air blowing in than out
Hi TrtleQ, MasterJkpatrick is right, the easiest way to have positive pressure is to have more fans intaking air than outtaking. In my case i have 2 120mm intakes in the top, 1 200mm in take at the front, and 1 120mm at the rear as an exhaust.
It depends on your case, but generally speaking you want positive air pressure in your case to keep dust out...
however if you use unfiltered intakes it will do more harm than good... And it doesn't affect temps much, it's just to prevent some dust build-up...
the way it works is that with positive air pressure you have more air coming into the case than what's being exhausted out by your other fans, this gives a positive air pressure and it will force air out all the little openings and holes in the case that are unfiltered and that is not a fan location, like the pci-e brackets... this means air will always be moving out through these spots and dust will in return not get in through them ;D
Negative air pressure does the opposite, the case will passively suck in air wherever there's an opening and that air will bring in dust...
the negative about positive air pressure is that if you use too many fans as intakes the pressure will start to fight the fans and cripple airflow ;D so try to get a slightly positive air pressure and try to use static pressure optimized fans as your intakes ;D