I just don't think there's enough game here to justify the price point. Same with Moonrakers. Beautiful games, and I think the beauty is the main reason they hold their value. Design and component quality seem to be king these days :)
Yep, as I focus more and more on having the best of the best and not every game, I am totally fine in a world in which the quality of our games just goes up.
@@BoardGameCo I'd love to have the "best of the best" conversation sometime. I joined the hobby only a couple years ago and a small, high quality collection has been my goal...and I think I'm nearing the end of that journey.
I picked up Moonrakers in person and talked with Austin a while. Here is the big difference between Moonrakers vs other deckbuilders ... and is core to their design philosophy: "We want you to be interested during other players turns" DC Deckbuilder is one of the games we have played the most around here, so I totally get it. That element of short term negotiations in Moonrakers is a game changer. I am thrilled with the premium quality of the game ... though there is one thing that was lower: non-metal ships. I wish I had gotten the metal ships, and expect that I will now that they are available. That's why when I made my pledge, I went straight for the metal option. Unsure if I'll keep the pledge; but I do want the expansion for Moonrakers and the metal ships for it.
I got Moonrakers and I’ve played it 3 weekends in a row with the same people and we’re hooked. We love the constant interaction. We’ve also been playing the Moonrakers and Veiled Fate Tabletop Simulator mods as well (IV Studios officially endorsed the mods for play testing) and we can’t stop playing both, never had we played games with that good constant player interaction/observation.
UA-cam has been showing me Veiled Fate ads almost every single time. There's not a single day that I haven't seen an ad of this game thus I was always reminded of how many days left before they launch it on KS. I think it made me feel like counting days with them and hacked my brain into thinking that I'm excited for this. That worked! I'm now watching every single Veiled Fate related video.
BoardgameCo I very much appreciate you articulating your thought processes in making decisions. Very thoughtful and insightful for my own decision making :)
I actually think it plays even better at the high player counts, but cannot speak for the 2 player. Don't think it's ideal, but from what I've seen, even at 3 it plays really well.
Clearly you didn’t back Moonrakers otherwise you wouldn’t be so baffled by their success. Great game, fantastic campaign, amazing quality. I haven’t backed veiled fate yet because I don’t know it it really fits with my group and it obviously has no solo mode, but the folks at IV Studios have earned all the good will they’ve gotten.
How is VF so popular day 1? - Really great marketing push (high quality ads, high quality launch video, very high quality launch stream) - MR was a really great game (I'd play it over Dominion any day since its much more social, its super popular on TTS!!) - Art and craft of the game is really high quality (gets folks both in and out of the board game audience excited) - VF is genuinely fun (like you said check out the discord for some fun play throughs of the game) If you want game lore than I highly highly recommend checking out enterthetemple.com Its been an incredible puzzle to solve each week and you get some fun background to the game. All of these things take hard work and cost money to do well (particularly from a smaller company too). I think thats why the higher prices are there and why they got my pledge. And maybe the wood add on too ;D Theres a great video on the economics of Moonrakers that IV Games put out if you are interested where their money went. I'll be looking out for the next video like it for VF to compare. ua-cam.com/video/paUyKOhjhfI/v-deo.html
I just got my copy of Moonrakers (a little late since i'm in Canada), but Wow! what a beautifully produce game! This company is awesome. They build a great first game and kept great communication with there backers. I'm not sure I will be backing VF, I don't know if it's for me, but i'm still looking cuz I really like this company.
Also the wooden board, I saw that it's in separate pieces with magnets on the pieces that attach them to the center board, so the footprint for storage should be similar to the regular board
@@BoardGameCo indeed, they showed it off on the launch day live stream, but I don't recall that part I described being communicated well on the Kickstarter page
As far as strategic deduction goes I loved The Name of the Rose by Stefan Feld (very non-Feldian game) back when I played it. Haven't tried it in a long time, maybe it was just the novelty speaking back then, and also me not being too experienced with board games in general at the time.
I feel like their success is both in part of moonrakers, that they delivered before creating a new KS'er, and how heavily they have been advertising, and getting content creators copies to review and playthrough, its definitely a great example of how companies should run a successful KS'er. I'm currently backed, as I liked the idea of getting a sneaky $3 off but not 100% sure if I will be keeping my pledge, I don't know if its something I would want to play regularly enough for the price point
I think what IV is doing pretty ingenious, and seems to be working. They're kind of setting themselves up as the Rolex of the board game world. they're not necessarily better than the other boardgames, their components are not necessarily better than anyone else's. But they have a premium look and a premium feel and so this is a premium game. At the moment my FOMO is strong on this one, I know I probably shouldn't back it, but I also want to, I want the Rolex of the boardgame world.
I partially agree. Meaning there are plenty of companies that give you deluxified games, but most the time I get the feeling that what I'm paying for is worth it. Don't get me wrong, I may still back this one if the game is good.
Hm, have you heard of chip theory games, Mindclash, Lacerda/eagle gryphon games? If I think rolex of board games there are a lot of other companies that springs to mind.
@@johncorrigan268 I get you John. The difference I see between those and IV is what I'm getting. For the money Chip Theory is giving me a lot of stuff, all the other ones you listed they're giving me a lot of stuff. IV is not giving me that much, that's kind of how I think of a Rolex watch. I actually might get more features out of a $50 watch than I would out of $1,000 watch. That's where my comparison comes in. I understand the other companies also make super high quality components and nice games, but I think the value proposition (which is Alex's main thing right), is more there for a Chip Theory, Mindclash, or the others. I could be wrong and if you hate the comparison ignore it. I mean I'm just a guy commenting on UA-cam after all.
@@caseypeterson5827 why on earth would I hate your opinion? Dialogue should be engaging and fun! Even more so with different points of view. The point I was making is that this sample of companies apart from delivering overproduced beautiful games also have, similar to a rolex exquisite flawless, rich mechanisms that are deeply satisfying and where the true prestige value lies in board games. To me, perhaps unfairly, this campaign feels like the emperor's new clothes. Flashy, skilful promotion but I'm unsure of the depth of play delivered. Also as has been mentioned elsewhere strongly reminds me of A War Of Whispers, which I own, and is just a bit of fun. You may even be still able to late pledge /pre order on the 2nd kickstarter to compare its cost/value vs this. I think gameplay wise would be a close comparison.
@@johncorrigan268 sorry, can't help but sound passive aggressive sometimes. I didn't mean to. I think that's my big thing is gameplay if it's super solid, I don't mind the price Obviously the component quality and everything else is there.
I went for the retail pledge. I am thinking if I should upgrade to the KS version for the extra cards, because they are not available as optional add-ons on the Pledge Manager. I do like the metal version, though and that would possibly push me into upgrading into the whole metal set. I agree that the amount of components is not the same you would find in Mechs vs Minions (the usual de-facto comparisson for a 80 USD games), but the art is the concept that keeps being brought up when discussing its price point and I agree, art is valuable and artists should be paid a fair fee for their hard work and for this game the art is really beautiful. I ultimately pledged because after watching Becca Scott's playthrough I was convinced it was a light enough game to play with my group and the possibility to play up to 8 people was definetively a big reason, without being a game that's too easy or gets boring (mostly because I have a luxury problem, since I have a regular group of 6 adding occasionally +/- 2, and splitting to play "up-to-4" players games is often frowned upon by them, so I want to have options of large-count games that I can play with them and that is not a source of problems with splitting up and creating FOMO at the other side of the table). The game rules-wise is really light and the amount of components does not justify the production cost alone, except for the art. What seems to be the meat and potatoes of this game is the game experience and from the looks of it, it seems that it's refined enough for providing a game experience that allows to have fun consistently and in which the components do have a reason to be and interact with eachother in a streamlined way that makes the game easy to play but hard to figure out from the hidden information each player holds. It may seem I am gushing about it and I think I am up to a degree. I haven't decided to fully go in for the highest level pledge pprecisely for a reason, but I do feel like this will be a good game that has replayability and that I can show to new players and play without problems fiarly regularly, at least from the gameplay I have seen. I wish I could hear negative aspects of the game experience but so far,.. it seems to be really only the price point 🤔
We just filmed a two player game today and even though I lost (I can say that since you don't know which I am) haha, it was due to some obvious misplays. Honestly 2 is one of my fav player counts but come play on TTS and find out for yourself (thought I"d recommend your first play be 3-5 to get the feel first).
Backed this game before watching your review. This game is on the HYPE!!! Also took you a few seconds to put your mind together to explain "What is Quackalope's favorite?" LOL
I do kind of wish that games would list the "ideal" player count as well as the possible player count. It is usually listed on BGG after the fact, but it would be great if there was a different format for listing these types of counts on the box. I'm guessing every board game player has at one point or another picked up a game that fell flat based on the number of players in their gamer group.
I've been a playtester on this game for a while. Its "best" player counts vary from person to person. There's a pretty equal division between those who prefer 4, 5 (my favorite by a slim margin), 6, and 7. I've only played 2 once. It was fun, very chess-like, but it really shines at higher play counts. I don't recommend new players start with a 6-8 player game.
I think this game looks fun and I would like a copy of it. That being said, there are a lot of games I think look fun that I would like a copy of and I can't have them all. The price point on this style game, when compared to the price points of other games that look like they serve a similar role in my collection (in terms of weight/ability to get played/unique-ness, etc.) makes this a pretty easy internal-conflict-free pass for me. Definitely looks pretty good, though.
Does seem like a game that plays best at 5+ players. I think the gameplay looks good, but don't see the value, and feels like it would be a game that is fine for retail. I think they have done a good job with their marketing and getting the game into the hands of a lot of UA-camrs.
This is now available on the IV Studio website. I know it just got delivered two weeks ago. What do you rate it? There are only previews online, but not reviews. Is this a game you love, and why? Thanks!
Thank you for the opinion, it‘s interesting and it‘s been uploaded very fast into the beginning of the KS campaign. I have never played clans, but to be honest the mechanism of sending people to missions and voting on whether they succeed or fail, without fully knowing what the people in the mission want just reminds me of Resistance. Why do I want to spend 2 hours to get the experience that resistance gives me in 20 minutes? They call it strategic deduction, I just call it drawn-out deduction. I‘m not going to be moving pawns around a board for 2 hours when I can just go directly to the voting phase. At least in Nemesis you are moving pawns around a board with an actual game purpose. The Rahdo intern who did the review on behalf of the actual Rahdo stated that Veiled fate was different to Nemesis, but he failed to indicate that this is just worse than Nemesis. In my view it‘s also worse than Resistance because it takes longer to get to the fun. Why are there 300,000 $ pledged already? Beats me, I think it‘s just hype for the cool components of the game. @Alex I would really appreciate if you could describe what game mechanisms in clans make you compare it to this game.
@@BoardGameCo I also really like Clans - it essentially has the same deduction element (the number of teams is larger than two for more than two players and everyone can move all pieces) but is much quicker and probably even less luck-based. Heimlich & Co also has that deduction element but is more luck-based (and also much shorter than the current KS). I'm currently backing the KS, but just out of fear that I'm missing something essential (and the early bird discount). If I don't find out what that is, I will drop my pledge.
I've been curious about this one. It seemed to explode onto the scene yesterday & I watched several videos. It kind of reminds me of War of Whispers which I did back & it looks beautiful. I'm not backing because, 1) cost seems high, 2) I don't think it would play well with 2 or solo (how I play games 90% of the time), 3) the people I play with don't tend to like "mean" games, so I think it would sit on the shelf except in the rare occasion I can play with someone who doesn't mind take that. It looks amazing & interesting though. I just think it doesn't suit my gaming situation. These concerns may also be true for WoW, so I definitely can't afford 2 games that might suffer the same fate.
Hands down, the art looks insane! And with the metal minis + wooden board it looks fantastic. this is what i call premium. But so is the price. i most likely wont find enough ppl to play it, so the price for me is the big hurdle. gonna pass on this one, but wow, this artstyle is amazing!
@BoardGameCo Hey Alex; So yesterday, Veiled Fate released an update with a new pledge option for Veiled Fate "lite". They're using cheaper quality components with a decent reduction in price. It's also KS exclusive: they won't be producing it after the KS. What are your thoughts on it?!
I'm not a fan of negotiation in games (because I'm horrible at it) so I ignored their first game and I'm not a fan of social deduction games so I have ignored this game. I'll still be interested to look at their third game whenever it appears based on their record with the first two.
Huh, maybe it’s because I’m relatively new to board games and coming from miniature wargames which can be pretty pricey, but when I was looking at the campaign, I expected the price to be higher. Maybe I’m just easily swayed by pretty visuals.
Yes, board games are actually a very good value. You're often getting more than you would in miniatures, more than you would in Lego, or playmobile... But along with it you also get a full game and for cheaper.
@@BoardGameCo yeah, I think that’s probably where my difference of opinion with quite a few people here comes from. £68 will get you a relatively middling sized Warhammer model that is just a part of an army (www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/CTan-Shard-of-the-Void-Dragon-2020 this guy in particular, just a recent example that was roughly the same price); or £66 can get an exceptionally pretty full game, in this case. So from where I’m standing it doesn’t seem that bad!
Join the Discord to try it out on TTS. The mod hasn't been released to the public yet. And of course it isn't the same as playing in person (a given), but definitely worth checking out! I think it may have more depth than you realize. But it's also accessible to a broad range of gamer types.
Is anyone worried by the added randomness in this game? Watching a few rule walkthroughs, some of the actions involve flipping a coin...And then at the end of each round, there's a previously unknown effect which can (and sometimes will) change the order of the pawns on the victory point tracker (not quite true - clarification in the comment below). Seems like it could be very frustrating to play, along with the "That pawn is in front let's all make sure it doesn't win" effect? Will definitely wait to see non-paid reviews as well as full playthroughs before considering to back this one.
Hey sAKecOkE! One note on the card at the end of each round... those are actually read at the beginning of the round and voted upon at the end, normally with players choosing which demis will be affected. Players then have the choice of trying to keep cards for the end of that age/round for that important vote, or using them throughout the age to influence quests. Agree that if it were random cards coming out that would be frustrating. From the play through games that I have completed, it has not felt random. Come join the discord and play a game for yourself!! We are hosting a ton over the next couple weeks! discord.gg/kBnzPN
@@bobbyessler Thank you for the clarification! That definitely mitigates the effect somewhat. I was already wondering if watching the reactions of other players to bad coinflip and card results was supposed to be part of figuring out who is who x )
First comment. Hi. Keep doing these great videos. I’m glad you make one everyday, it brightens my day at work from home. Personally I created a spreadsheet or what I have backed what has been delivered and when I am anticipating delivery. I have 35 outstanding projects expecting delivery. I might have an addiction. Laugh out loud😃
I dont think im going in on this one. I dont think Ill find the group to play it and our backlog is getting big. I ended up passing on dino world as well. I did back project L though and Im still on the fence for fantastic factories and crash octopus. Crash Octopus is a crazy design and I cant imagine ever finding it after the KS.
oddly enough, I work for a vfx/film studio and I can say many of us are well-versed in boardgame nerdome and could likely throw together a bomb game if we ever got the time. moonrakers is the highest deck builder on my list to pick up, however this game looks like a rip
@@BoardGameCo I have several friends who enjoy them as well, I just dont care for them as much as I do other types ( likely because I stink at them lol)
I can totally see what strategy they are following and which niche they want to occupy with their games. To me though it feels like it's almost too clean, to calculated and I honestly think they have seen what games can sell for when the presentation is right and they are honing in on that. The Apple way of doing things. Heavy on presentation and marketing. I get it. I'm not even saying this isn't fun but I can't shake the feeling that it's extremely overproduced and does not have nearly enough meat for me to fork out 100 USD for a game with a couple of minis and a nice presentation. This is where you lose me. It looks like a mix of Resistance Avalon and War of Whispers almost (visually). The success of the KS surely confirms much for them but yeah....I'm often enough falling for spectacular production but with an all-in this comes out even more expensive than Frosthaven. This is too blunt. Big box, small game. Others might appreciate it for what it is...I don't. If this an indication for KS campaigns that would make me sad.
Personally, this is one I will be following. The price point in my opinion is way too much, as you pointed out similar to moonrakers a bit overpriced. The only aspect of the campaign that I really liked was the deluxe board, however, for the price point I don't think it's worth it. The campaign will do phenomenal, and this might draw some flak, but, I don't see a great value prop for backers and this confuses me as to why its doing so great. Plunderous, a much better game, with a rockstar team and in my opinion better marketing, floundered and failed, I am glad they pulled from KS. Although, these are two entirely different games I use the example to show price and what you get, in Plunderous $95.00 got you everything, if I recall (minis included). A massive sandbox game, and this in comparison is a peanut. Just my two cents. Would love to know your thoughts. I understand factors of production, economies of scale, marketing, printing etc. However, for what Veiled Fate is offering is it truly worth the investment? Will it truly hold its value?
85$ plus shipping plus taxes in EU is killing this one for me. I LOVE the art style an I guess this and marketing is the main reason it’s so popular. But all in all it looks like a small game for that price range. You can get a really big game for 100$. I might reconsider but I think I’ll pass.
I was so excited for this game and wanted to back this. So I scrolled down the campaign page and was really hyped with every sentence read. So I just wanted to see, what the shipping cost to the EU will be and bam instant turn off. Not only you have to pay for the shipping cost. The VAT will be your wallet destroyer, too. So because this thing will not be EU friendly, i'm out of it. Even the smallest Kickstarter can offer an EU-friendly project. It will cost just to much for what it is.
The way I read it - on the KS page ... it is due to a change in the EU laws ... I wonder if you will see this hit a ton of future KS projects, along with piratically anything else imported to the EU. Sound right?
@@JonathanNation Yeah i read it that way, too. But i was curious how long this law was out. Funny to mention, that the rule is out for some months and no Kickstarter I backed in this time wanted more money or canceled their EU friendly status. I mean you can charge more money to compensate the cost you have. But to let me pay the shipping cost, then i have to drive to a costums center far away to pay the VAT, drive back home and after sone hours and lot of money I have my package at home with double costs and driving hours. Nope not with me :D
@@TaberlI What? You read that a ton different from what I did. Basically I read it this way: 1. EU has changed what the VAT is based on (from wholesale to retail). 2. this increases the amount of VAT a ton 3. What IV is doing is instead of just counting the cost of the VAT into the price, splitting it between you and IV & you pay in the pledge manager. I live in a state that a few KS campaigns have charged the "sales tax" - similar to how this VAT is now calculated (I think) ... It's annoying, yet sounds NOTHING like what you described. Nothing about a ton of extra time and effort to get your rewards to you.
@@JonathanNation I know, but this project is still not EU friendly. Therefore i have to get my package from the costums center. Which will be time and money for me, too. In the shipping section you can see, that it will US-friendly etc, but not for the EU. There is even a point, where it says : Costums and duty free shipping, but for the EU/UK see the next section. There is nothing with duty and costum free shipping or even an EU friendly reminder. You are completely right with everything you said, but for me the point is not so much the price, but more the EU friendly part, that is missing
@@TaberlI Hey Taberl, we'll take another look at explaining this on the KS, but the game will deliver to your door. The only reason we have it separate from the others is the VAT law changes that are about it hit on Jan 1st.
I backed this the day it was put on Kickstarter. This game looks astounding. I do think the price is a bit much but I feel like these guys deserve the support due to their high amount of passion
Hard pass. I have been fast & loose with my money lately and it’s time to reign it in. Game seems fine, but I don’t see it on my “essentials” list. Currently trying to get rid of existing games. Price point is also hard to justify for the components.
I don't pledge. It s too extensive for EU consumers like me. Too bad because I am interested by the game. I have the impression that they want to be the "Apple" of boardgames.
Geez, I don’t see how to justify the price on this game. There is probable just one or two companies I’m willing to pay more for over produced games (CTG and maybe Stonemaier)
You're paying for overpriced art honestly. Game may be good, but doesn't justify paying for their artists. Easy pass for me. Also, the metal upgrade isn't $60, it's $80. Need to deduct the cost of the plastic minis since they're being replaced. That's an entire board game and a half for metal components. *This company is hardcore scalping IMO.* Not impressed, and quite frankly very offended by that. 👎👎👎👎👎
@@BoardGameCo Agreed. Whenever I flip something on eBay, if it sells--it wasn't priced high enough. 😉 That said, I will still call out a scalper when I see it and there are plenty of people that want to pay a premium for nonsense items (see Supreme brand).
@@JodouTR I agree that the game is not cheap, for sure. I will say that as an active member of their Discord community, the IV team has been very transparent in their practices regarding pricing and production decisions that they have made. I am going to steal a link that another commenter posted earlier in case you are interested. This is a segment on IV Games Weekly in which they discuss the cost of board games and go into detail on financials for their first game, Moonrakers: ua-cam.com/video/paUyKOhjhfI/v-deo.html
I don't know who this Quackalope character is but flavour text is the worst part of every game. Chess is the ultimate game. Flavour text isn't even a mechanic, how can it be good?
I just don't think there's enough game here to justify the price point. Same with Moonrakers. Beautiful games, and I think the beauty is the main reason they hold their value. Design and component quality seem to be king these days :)
Yep, as I focus more and more on having the best of the best and not every game, I am totally fine in a world in which the quality of our games just goes up.
@@BoardGameCo only as far as the gameplay quality goes up. I'm just not seeing that here haha
@@BoardGameCo I'd love to have the "best of the best" conversation sometime. I joined the hobby only a couple years ago and a small, high quality collection has been my goal...and I think I'm nearing the end of that journey.
@@cmchristensen so what would be your top 20 games?
@@johncorrigan268 would love to hear that as well
I picked up Moonrakers in person and talked with Austin a while.
Here is the big difference between Moonrakers vs other deckbuilders ... and is core to their design philosophy:
"We want you to be interested during other players turns"
DC Deckbuilder is one of the games we have played the most around here, so I totally get it. That element of short term negotiations in Moonrakers is a game changer.
I am thrilled with the premium quality of the game ... though there is one thing that was lower: non-metal ships.
I wish I had gotten the metal ships, and expect that I will now that they are available.
That's why when I made my pledge, I went straight for the metal option.
Unsure if I'll keep the pledge; but I do want the expansion for Moonrakers and the metal ships for it.
P.S. ... I'm sure Austin would be willing to do an interview sometime.
Thanks! And good to know.
@@JonathanNation Can confirm he would be
I got Moonrakers and I’ve played it 3 weekends in a row with the same people and we’re hooked. We love the constant interaction. We’ve also been playing the Moonrakers and Veiled Fate Tabletop Simulator mods as well (IV Studios officially endorsed the mods for play testing) and we can’t stop playing both, never had we played games with that good constant player interaction/observation.
I've heard a lot of good things :)
UA-cam has been showing me Veiled Fate ads almost every single time. There's not a single day that I haven't seen an ad of this game thus I was always reminded of how many days left before they launch it on KS. I think it made me feel like counting days with them and hacked my brain into thinking that I'm excited for this. That worked! I'm now watching every single Veiled Fate related video.
Lol good for them!
What a lol
BoardgameCo I very much appreciate you articulating your thought processes in making decisions. Very thoughtful and insightful for my own decision making :)
Anytime! Glad you enjoy it :)
I actually think it plays even better at the high player counts, but cannot speak for the 2 player. Don't think it's ideal, but from what I've seen, even at 3 it plays really well.
You're on it! glad you released this video so quickly
It's easy when they don't have SG's that change the conversation :)
Clearly you didn’t back Moonrakers otherwise you wouldn’t be so baffled by their success. Great game, fantastic campaign, amazing quality. I haven’t backed veiled fate yet because I don’t know it it really fits with my group and it obviously has no solo mode, but the folks at IV Studios have earned all the good will they’ve gotten.
Oh I respect that and have commented as such, nonetheless the success is pretty intense.
How is VF so popular day 1?
- Really great marketing push (high quality ads, high quality launch video, very high quality launch stream)
- MR was a really great game (I'd play it over Dominion any day since its much more social, its super popular on TTS!!)
- Art and craft of the game is really high quality (gets folks both in and out of the board game audience excited)
- VF is genuinely fun (like you said check out the discord for some fun play throughs of the game)
If you want game lore than I highly highly recommend checking out enterthetemple.com Its been an incredible puzzle to solve each week and you get some fun background to the game.
All of these things take hard work and cost money to do well (particularly from a smaller company too). I think thats why the higher prices are there and why they got my pledge. And maybe the wood add on too ;D
Theres a great video on the economics of Moonrakers that IV Games put out if you are interested where their money went. I'll be looking out for the next video like it for VF to compare.
ua-cam.com/video/paUyKOhjhfI/v-deo.html
That's awesome, thanks for the video that kind of thing is right up my alley.
@@BoardGameCo no problem! Thanks for making one of my favorite UA-cam channels!
I just got my copy of Moonrakers (a little late since i'm in Canada), but Wow! what a beautifully produce game! This company is awesome. They build a great first game and kept great communication with there backers. I'm not sure I will be backing VF, I don't know if it's for me, but i'm still looking cuz I really like this company.
It does look amazing :)
Also the wooden board, I saw that it's in separate pieces with magnets on the pieces that attach them to the center board, so the footprint for storage should be similar to the regular board
Oh nice!
@@BoardGameCo indeed, they showed it off on the launch day live stream, but I don't recall that part I described being communicated well on the Kickstarter page
As far as strategic deduction goes I loved The Name of the Rose by Stefan Feld (very non-Feldian game) back when I played it. Haven't tried it in a long time, maybe it was just the novelty speaking back then, and also me not being too experienced with board games in general at the time.
I haven't played that, but I know the feeling you're referring to. Games that are great until you play them again years later
I feel like their success is both in part of moonrakers, that they delivered before creating a new KS'er, and how heavily they have been advertising, and getting content creators copies to review and playthrough, its definitely a great example of how companies should run a successful KS'er. I'm currently backed, as I liked the idea of getting a sneaky $3 off but not 100% sure if I will be keeping my pledge, I don't know if its something I would want to play regularly enough for the price point
Yep, they're doing a solid job getting the game sold, and they're certainly not hiding the game so its likely a great game too.
I think what IV is doing pretty ingenious, and seems to be working. They're kind of setting themselves up as the Rolex of the board game world. they're not necessarily better than the other boardgames, their components are not necessarily better than anyone else's. But they have a premium look and a premium feel and so this is a premium game.
At the moment my FOMO is strong on this one, I know I probably shouldn't back it, but I also want to, I want the Rolex of the boardgame world.
I partially agree. Meaning there are plenty of companies that give you deluxified games, but most the time I get the feeling that what I'm paying for is worth it. Don't get me wrong, I may still back this one if the game is good.
Hm, have you heard of chip theory games, Mindclash, Lacerda/eagle gryphon games? If I think rolex of board games there are a lot of other companies that springs to mind.
@@johncorrigan268 I get you John. The difference I see between those and IV is what I'm getting. For the money Chip Theory is giving me a lot of stuff, all the other ones you listed they're giving me a lot of stuff. IV is not giving me that much, that's kind of how I think of a Rolex watch. I actually might get more features out of a $50 watch than I would out of $1,000 watch. That's where my comparison comes in. I understand the other companies also make super high quality components and nice games, but I think the value proposition (which is Alex's main thing right), is more there for a Chip Theory, Mindclash, or the others. I could be wrong and if you hate the comparison ignore it. I mean I'm just a guy commenting on UA-cam after all.
@@caseypeterson5827 why on earth would I hate your opinion? Dialogue should be engaging and fun! Even more so with different points of view.
The point I was making is that this sample of companies apart from delivering overproduced beautiful games also have, similar to a rolex exquisite flawless, rich mechanisms that are deeply satisfying and where the true prestige value lies in board games.
To me, perhaps unfairly, this campaign feels like the emperor's new clothes. Flashy, skilful promotion but I'm unsure of the depth of play delivered.
Also as has been mentioned elsewhere strongly reminds me of A War Of Whispers, which I own, and is just a bit of fun. You may even be still able to late pledge /pre order on the 2nd kickstarter to compare its cost/value vs this. I think gameplay wise would be a close comparison.
@@johncorrigan268 sorry, can't help but sound passive aggressive sometimes. I didn't mean to. I think that's my big thing is gameplay if it's super solid, I don't mind the price Obviously the component quality and everything else is there.
Just as an add on, they stated they are doing a 2 Player video soon in the KS Comments
Nice :)
I went for the retail pledge.
I am thinking if I should upgrade to the KS version for the extra cards, because they are not available as optional add-ons on the Pledge Manager.
I do like the metal version, though and that would possibly push me into upgrading into the whole metal set.
I agree that the amount of components is not the same you would find in Mechs vs Minions (the usual de-facto comparisson for a 80 USD games), but the art is the concept that keeps being brought up when discussing its price point and I agree, art is valuable and artists should be paid a fair fee for their hard work and for this game the art is really beautiful.
I ultimately pledged because after watching Becca Scott's playthrough I was convinced it was a light enough game to play with my group and the possibility to play up to 8 people was definetively a big reason, without being a game that's too easy or gets boring (mostly because I have a luxury problem, since I have a regular group of 6 adding occasionally +/- 2, and splitting to play "up-to-4" players games is often frowned upon by them, so I want to have options of large-count games that I can play with them and that is not a source of problems with splitting up and creating FOMO at the other side of the table).
The game rules-wise is really light and the amount of components does not justify the production cost alone, except for the art. What seems to be the meat and potatoes of this game is the game experience and from the looks of it, it seems that it's refined enough for providing a game experience that allows to have fun consistently and in which the components do have a reason to be and interact with eachother in a streamlined way that makes the game easy to play but hard to figure out from the hidden information each player holds.
It may seem I am gushing about it and I think I am up to a degree. I haven't decided to fully go in for the highest level pledge pprecisely for a reason, but I do feel like this will be a good game that has replayability and that I can show to new players and play without problems fiarly regularly, at least from the gameplay I have seen.
I wish I could hear negative aspects of the game experience but so far,.. it seems to be really only the price point 🤔
Ohhh I'm very interested in this, I'm curious if it actually plays well at 2. I was surprised to see that player count listed.
@Tadqwerty29 yeah same, I'd likely play it with two more often. I've seen it described as "chess like" at the two player count
They posted in their KS comments that they plan on doing a 2 player video this week
Yep, if it plays well at 2 I'd be even more intrigued.
We just filmed a two player game today and even though I lost (I can say that since you don't know which I am) haha, it was due to some obvious misplays. Honestly 2 is one of my fav player counts but come play on TTS and find out for yourself (thought I"d recommend your first play be 3-5 to get the feel first).
@@IVGamesStudio Nice, thanks for the heads up, looking forward to checking it out! 🙂
Backed this game before watching your review. This game is on the HYPE!!! Also took you a few seconds to put your mind together to explain "What is Quackalope's favorite?" LOL
Yep...cause who would have that :)
I do kind of wish that games would list the "ideal" player count as well as the possible player count. It is usually listed on BGG after the fact, but it would be great if there was a different format for listing these types of counts on the box. I'm guessing every board game player has at one point or another picked up a game that fell flat based on the number of players in their gamer group.
I've been a playtester on this game for a while. Its "best" player counts vary from person to person. There's a pretty equal division between those who prefer 4, 5 (my favorite by a slim margin), 6, and 7. I've only played 2 once. It was fun, very chess-like, but it really shines at higher play counts. I don't recommend new players start with a 6-8 player game.
I am backed for now but really not sure I can justify that high price for what it is.... Thanks for your insights!
Yup, I'm sort of there...but also if it's good I tend to ignore price.
I think this game looks fun and I would like a copy of it. That being said, there are a lot of games I think look fun that I would like a copy of and I can't have them all. The price point on this style game, when compared to the price points of other games that look like they serve a similar role in my collection (in terms of weight/ability to get played/unique-ness, etc.) makes this a pretty easy internal-conflict-free pass for me.
Definitely looks pretty good, though.
Totally hear and agree.
Does seem like a game that plays best at 5+ players.
I think the gameplay looks good, but don't see the value, and feels like it would be a game that is fine for retail.
I think they have done a good job with their marketing and getting the game into the hands of a lot of UA-camrs.
Yes... They've doing a solid job
This is now available on the IV Studio website. I know it just got delivered two weeks ago. What do you rate it? There are only previews online, but not reviews. Is this a game you love, and why? Thanks!
Thank you for the opinion, it‘s interesting and it‘s been uploaded very fast into the beginning of the KS campaign. I have never played clans, but to be honest the mechanism of sending people to missions and voting on whether they succeed or fail, without fully knowing what the people in the mission want just reminds me of Resistance. Why do I want to spend 2 hours to get the experience that resistance gives me in 20 minutes? They call it strategic deduction, I just call it drawn-out deduction. I‘m not going to be moving pawns around a board for 2 hours when I can just go directly to the voting phase. At least in Nemesis you are moving pawns around a board with an actual game purpose. The Rahdo intern who did the review on behalf of the actual Rahdo stated that Veiled fate was different to Nemesis, but he failed to indicate that this is just worse than Nemesis. In my view it‘s also worse than Resistance because it takes longer to get to the fun. Why are there 300,000 $ pledged already? Beats me, I think it‘s just hype for the cool components of the game. @Alex I would really appreciate if you could describe what game mechanisms in clans make you compare it to this game.
Clans has an aspect of grouping different teams together to score, without knowing who is benefitting from that score.
@@BoardGameCo I also really like Clans - it essentially has the same deduction element (the number of teams is larger than two for more than two players and everyone can move all pieces) but is much quicker and probably even less luck-based. Heimlich & Co also has that deduction element but is more luck-based (and also much shorter than the current KS). I'm currently backing the KS, but just out of fear that I'm missing something essential (and the early bird discount). If I don't find out what that is, I will drop my pledge.
@@BoardGameCo Thank you for the reply :)
I've been curious about this one. It seemed to explode onto the scene yesterday & I watched several videos. It kind of reminds me of War of Whispers which I did back & it looks beautiful. I'm not backing because, 1) cost seems high, 2) I don't think it would play well with 2 or solo (how I play games 90% of the time), 3) the people I play with don't tend to like "mean" games, so I think it would sit on the shelf except in the rare occasion I can play with someone who doesn't mind take that. It looks amazing & interesting though. I just think it doesn't suit my gaming situation. These concerns may also be true for WoW, so I definitely can't afford 2 games that might suffer the same fate.
Hands down, the art looks insane! And with the metal minis + wooden board it looks fantastic. this is what i call premium. But so is the price. i most likely wont find enough ppl to play it, so the price for me is the big hurdle. gonna pass on this one, but wow, this artstyle is amazing!
Yep totally agree, that's why as of now I'm only willing to back it if I play and like the game.
@BoardGameCo Hey Alex;
So yesterday, Veiled Fate released an update with a new pledge option for Veiled Fate "lite". They're using cheaper quality components with a decent reduction in price. It's also KS exclusive: they won't be producing it after the KS.
What are your thoughts on it?!
Will definitely be covering :)
I'm not a fan of negotiation in games (because I'm horrible at it) so I ignored their first game and I'm not a fan of social deduction games so I have ignored this game. I'll still be interested to look at their third game whenever it appears based on their record with the first two.
Fair enough :)
Huh, maybe it’s because I’m relatively new to board games and coming from miniature wargames which can be pretty pricey, but when I was looking at the campaign, I expected the price to be higher. Maybe I’m just easily swayed by pretty visuals.
Yes, board games are actually a very good value. You're often getting more than you would in miniatures, more than you would in Lego, or playmobile... But along with it you also get a full game and for cheaper.
@@BoardGameCo yeah, I think that’s probably where my difference of opinion with quite a few people here comes from. £68 will get you a relatively middling sized Warhammer model that is just a part of an army (www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/CTan-Shard-of-the-Void-Dragon-2020 this guy in particular, just a recent example that was roughly the same price); or £66 can get an exceptionally pretty full game, in this case. So from where I’m standing it doesn’t seem that bad!
pfff where did this game came from??? The art is amazing. This seems a too easy game for me, but yet i still consider to back it :O
Lol welcome to my life.
Join the Discord to try it out on TTS. The mod hasn't been released to the public yet. And of course it isn't the same as playing in person (a given), but definitely worth checking out! I think it may have more depth than you realize. But it's also accessible to a broad range of gamer types.
Is anyone worried by the added randomness in this game?
Watching a few rule walkthroughs, some of the actions involve flipping a coin...And then at the end of each round, there's a previously unknown effect which can (and sometimes will) change the order of the pawns on the victory point tracker (not quite true - clarification in the comment below). Seems like it could be very frustrating to play, along with the "That pawn is in front let's all make sure it doesn't win" effect? Will definitely wait to see non-paid reviews as well as full playthroughs before considering to back this one.
Hey sAKecOkE! One note on the card at the end of each round... those are actually read at the beginning of the round and voted upon at the end, normally with players choosing which demis will be affected. Players then have the choice of trying to keep cards for the end of that age/round for that important vote, or using them throughout the age to influence quests. Agree that if it were random cards coming out that would be frustrating. From the play through games that I have completed, it has not felt random.
Come join the discord and play a game for yourself!! We are hosting a ton over the next couple weeks!
discord.gg/kBnzPN
@@bobbyessler Thank you for the clarification!
That definitely mitigates the effect somewhat. I was already wondering if watching the reactions of other players to bad coinflip and card results was supposed to be part of figuring out who is who x )
First comment. Hi.
Keep doing these great videos. I’m glad you make one everyday, it brightens my day at work from home.
Personally I created a spreadsheet or what I have backed what has been delivered and when I am anticipating delivery.
I have 35 outstanding projects expecting delivery.
I might have an addiction. Laugh out loud😃
Oh hey, another spreadsheet, although I use a OneNote page for mine ;-)
I created a spreadsheet too!
We're all addicted :)
I dont think im going in on this one. I dont think Ill find the group to play it and our backlog is getting big.
I ended up passing on dino world as well. I did back project L though and Im still on the fence for fantastic factories and crash octopus. Crash Octopus is a crazy design and I cant imagine ever finding it after the KS.
Interesting, the time stamps for today and yesterday's video don't seem to be having the same effect as before...
Hmmm....working for me.
oddly enough, I work for a vfx/film studio and I can say many of us are well-versed in boardgame nerdome and could likely throw together a bomb game if we ever got the time. moonrakers is the highest deck builder on my list to pick up, however this game looks like a rip
Yeah, sadly it does look more expensive than I would like... But if I enjoy playing it I'll still get it.
Love the wooden board, but being a deduction game I know it wont hit the table. Thanks for the review
Anytime :) And I love deduction :)
@@BoardGameCo I have several friends who enjoy them as well, I just dont care for them as much as I do other types ( likely because I stink at them lol)
I can totally see what strategy they are following and which niche they want to occupy with their games. To me though it feels like it's almost too clean, to calculated and I honestly think they have seen what games can sell for when the presentation is right and they are honing in on that. The Apple way of doing things. Heavy on presentation and marketing. I get it. I'm not even saying this isn't fun but I can't shake the feeling that it's extremely overproduced and does not have nearly enough meat for me to fork out 100 USD for a game with a couple of minis and a nice presentation. This is where you lose me. It looks like a mix of Resistance Avalon and War of Whispers almost (visually). The success of the KS surely confirms much for them but yeah....I'm often enough falling for spectacular production but with an all-in this comes out even more expensive than Frosthaven. This is too blunt. Big box, small game. Others might appreciate it for what it is...I don't. If this an indication for KS campaigns that would make me sad.
Personally, this is one I will be following. The price point in my opinion is way too much, as you pointed out similar to moonrakers a bit overpriced. The only aspect of the campaign that I really liked was the deluxe board, however, for the price point I don't think it's worth it. The campaign will do phenomenal, and this might draw some flak, but, I don't see a great value prop for backers and this confuses me as to why its doing so great. Plunderous, a much better game, with a rockstar team and in my opinion better marketing, floundered and failed, I am glad they pulled from KS. Although, these are two entirely different games I use the example to show price and what you get, in Plunderous $95.00 got you everything, if I recall (minis included). A massive sandbox game, and this in comparison is a peanut. Just my two cents. Would love to know your thoughts.
I understand factors of production, economies of scale, marketing, printing etc. However, for what Veiled Fate is offering is it truly worth the investment? Will it truly hold its value?
It's pronounced IV Studios...
Oh you troll.
That was so helpful, thanks! :P
@@RaduStanculescu Well it can be confusing because others might pronounce it IV Studios
Totally.
Is this game comparable to war of whispers?
I haven't played that one so I can't comment.
@@BoardGameCo you should give it a try😊
This getting like a worker placement onto itself too many games and unable to pick them all
Yup
85$ plus shipping plus taxes in EU is killing this one for me. I LOVE the art style an I guess this and marketing is the main reason it’s so popular. But all in all it looks like a small game for that price range. You can get a really big game for 100$. I might reconsider but I think I’ll pass.
I was so excited for this game and wanted to back this. So I scrolled down the campaign page and was really hyped with every sentence read.
So I just wanted to see, what the shipping cost to the EU will be and bam instant turn off. Not only you have to pay for the shipping cost. The VAT will be your wallet destroyer, too. So because this thing will not be EU friendly, i'm out of it. Even the smallest Kickstarter can offer an EU-friendly project.
It will cost just to much for what it is.
The way I read it - on the KS page ... it is due to a change in the EU laws ... I wonder if you will see this hit a ton of future KS projects, along with piratically anything else imported to the EU. Sound right?
@@JonathanNation Yeah i read it that way, too. But i was curious how long this law was out. Funny to mention, that the rule is out for some months and no Kickstarter I backed in this time wanted more money or canceled their EU friendly status. I mean you can charge more money to compensate the cost you have. But to let me pay the shipping cost, then i have to drive to a costums center far away to pay the VAT, drive back home and after sone hours and lot of money I have my package at home with double costs and driving hours. Nope not with me :D
@@TaberlI What?
You read that a ton different from what I did.
Basically I read it this way:
1. EU has changed what the VAT is based on (from wholesale to retail).
2. this increases the amount of VAT a ton
3. What IV is doing is instead of just counting the cost of the VAT into the price, splitting it between you and IV & you pay in the pledge manager.
I live in a state that a few KS campaigns have charged the "sales tax" - similar to how this VAT is now calculated (I think) ... It's annoying, yet sounds NOTHING like what you described.
Nothing about a ton of extra time and effort to get your rewards to you.
@@JonathanNation I know, but this project is still not EU friendly. Therefore i have to get my package from the costums center. Which will be time and money for me, too. In the shipping section you can see, that it will US-friendly etc, but not for the EU. There is even a point, where it says : Costums and duty free shipping, but for the EU/UK see the next section. There is nothing with duty and costum free shipping or even an EU friendly reminder.
You are completely right with everything you said, but for me the point is not so much the price, but more the EU friendly part, that is missing
@@TaberlI Hey Taberl, we'll take another look at explaining this on the KS, but the game will deliver to your door. The only reason we have it separate from the others is the VAT law changes that are about it hit on Jan 1st.
I backed this the day it was put on Kickstarter. This game looks astounding. I do think the price is a bit much but I feel like these guys deserve the support due to their high amount of passion
Yep, not a fan of price but intrigued by the game.
Hard pass. I have been fast & loose with my money lately and it’s time to reign it in. Game seems fine, but I don’t see it on my “essentials” list. Currently trying to get rid of existing games. Price point is also hard to justify for the components.
Totally hear on all counts. I think this will be a good game, but also unlikely to be essential.
I backed Moonrakers and love it. I'm not sure this price point is worth it for me.
Thanks! Good to know
I'll pass. Expensive month and I don't need to throw more fuel on the fire :-)
It's always an expensive month around here :)
I don't pledge.
It s too extensive for EU consumers like me.
Too bad because I am interested by the game.
I have the impression that they want to be the "Apple" of boardgames.
Interesting comparison.
It's too expensive. I see 40 bucks, maaayyybeee 50 max.
Ya I hear.
Geez, I don’t see how to justify the price on this game. There is probable just one or two companies I’m willing to pay more for over produced games (CTG and maybe Stonemaier)
Yep, it's expensive to be sure
You're paying for overpriced art honestly. Game may be good, but doesn't justify paying for their artists. Easy pass for me.
Also, the metal upgrade isn't $60, it's $80. Need to deduct the cost of the plastic minis since they're being replaced. That's an entire board game and a half for metal components. *This company is hardcore scalping IMO.*
Not impressed, and quite frankly very offended by that. 👎👎👎👎👎
In general I'm a firm believer that a product is worth what the market is willing to pay.
@@BoardGameCo Agreed. Whenever I flip something on eBay, if it sells--it wasn't priced high enough. 😉
That said, I will still call out a scalper when I see it and there are plenty of people that want to pay a premium for nonsense items (see Supreme brand).
@@JodouTR I agree that the game is not cheap, for sure. I will say that as an active member of their Discord community, the IV team has been very transparent in their practices regarding pricing and production decisions that they have made. I am going to steal a link that another commenter posted earlier in case you are interested. This is a segment on IV Games Weekly in which they discuss the cost of board games and go into detail on financials for their first game, Moonrakers:
ua-cam.com/video/paUyKOhjhfI/v-deo.html
I don't know who this Quackalope character is but flavour text is the worst part of every game. Chess is the ultimate game. Flavour text isn't even a mechanic, how can it be good?
Right there with you :)