A Sudoku With 36 Given Digits
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- Опубліковано 7 вер 2024
- This puzzle has 36 given digits - 36!!! And yet it's still exceptionally interesting (and quite difficult) to solve. It's called Patto Patto and it's by the wonderful constructor shye. And, you're right, Simon doesn't seem to know what day it is! You can play the puzzle at the following link:
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Rules:
Normal sudoku rules apply.
Bonus puzzle:
Sam Cappleman-Lynes has made an extremely clever 6x6x6 set of puzzles. You can play them at these links (one to our software, one to penpa (which allows you to increase the size of the grids):
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PS If we manage to reach 400,000 subscribers then we'll be releasing a video where Mark and Simon answer community questions! Please email us at crackingthecryptic@gmail.com if you have a good question for them :)
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Hi! We're Simon Anthony and Mark Goodliffe, two of the UK's most enthusiastic puzzle solvers. We have both represented the UK at the World Sudoku Championships and the World Puzzle Championships.
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Simon and Mark
Simon: I'm sure you're all annoyed with how slow I am
Me: The hell's a swordfish
Is this your first Sudoku?
@@EmilWestrum I don't do Sudoku, I'm not big brain enough, but I've watched a couple of videos of Simon doing them. I think it's entertaining but I don't get the terminology or how they work at all 😅
@@waffleweirdo1252 Sorry, I didnt mean to sound condecending. I can appreciate you being new to Sudoku, I mean we all where at some point. Its just that swordfish is a very "famous" tactic. I suggest you read up on it, and x-wing (which is a simpler swordfish). It gives great insight into different sudoku solving techniques :)
It's a type of fish with a long and pointy bill resembling a sword.
@@THEPELADOMASTER Ah, I get it now! Thank you, oh wise one
"apologies of you've spotted it and are screaming at your screens" oh trust me, I haven't spotted it
Never have. 😂
There should be a 5 on the top right corner of cage 7 damnit.
Simon is always like, "I'm sorry I'm so slow... You have probably already spotted it", at the point where I'm still like: "Hmm, this looks like a sudoku..."
@@SmLoveBites Simon really underestimates himself. He actually thinks other people would spot things he doesnt or takes a while for, when in reality he is absolutly built different and much better than at least 99% of the viewers.
@@Jaddas In more recent videos it's usually been when he's using weird or different rules and he misses the basic sudoku that I'm yelling. What's hilarious is when he misses basic things and then uses some other logic to find the same answer he could have gotten earlier. :P
"Patto patto" is Japanese onomatopoeia for "suddenly; in a flash". If that's what's intended, it's maybe alluding to the fact that once the trick is found, the puzzle completes rapidly.
How is that onomatopoeia?
@@TheFreeBro Japanese is a bit more loose with their onomatopoeia, but the "tto" is like "with a" so my guess is something along the lines of "with a 'pa!' (disappearing in a puff of smoke)". And then there's the repetition for emphasis. Someone smarter than me will hopefully come along and correct me here!
@@MisterM2402 I can't say for absolutely certain but by my instincts you would either say "patto" or "ぱっと" just once or for the repetition side "papatto" or "ぱぱっと", though they are different in meaning. The first is "suddenly" and the latter is more "quickly" as in "filled the sudoku quickly", which I do think fits the essence of that sudoku. A dictionary definition of "ぱぱっと" might be "手早く簡単に" which translates to "quick and easy".
Addition: I think that, if the name really is "patto patto" and it references the idea of suddenly, it could be a reference to both the sudden realization of the hinging point of the solution and the suddenly finished sudoku after that.
@@mrwalter1049 I'm still a noob at Japanese so you could well be right. I was thinking of it in comparison to words like ドキドキ or もっともっと or わくわく but it's possibly not the same thing and I'm talking nonsense. It might just be a nice little coincidence and the setter meant something else entirely!
@@TheFreeBro japanese has more types of onomatopoeia than just things like "boom!" or "knock knock", it also has onomatopoeia for things like weather, food, emotions, physical feelings, textures, appearance, etc.
At this rate, we're going to have a brutally difficult sudoku with only one missing digit
You are thinking of a Sun sodoku
1 2 3
4 .. 6
7 8 9
Hint: count the fingers on one hand and subtract one if you are from Norfolk.
The puzzle is already solved and the video is still an hour somehow
The puzzle is solved, but he has to draw a Witness line through the grid
EDIT: This has been done now
@@columbus8myhw that's... Actually not a bad premise.
@@HonkeyKongLive Combining Sudoku and The Witness puzzles? That could be great!
Sudoku clickbait in 2020: "A sudoku with only 4 given digits?!"
Sudoku clickbait in 2021: "A sudoku with 36 given digits?!"
Oh, how far this community has progressed. What a strange world!
Sadly, 2022's contribution: "A sudoku with only 324 given digits?!" might struggle.
@@Xexxis
Does that one use D’ni numerals or something? Because 324 givens seems reasonable for a 25x25 grid.
@@ragnkja I'm afraid I'm not that clever, friend. I just multiplied 36 x 9 :D
That said, 324 givens on a 25x25 equates to about half the cells I think, which for a grid that size probably is reasonable. I wonder what the largest ever suduko grid is?
@@Xexxis
Oh, a 9x9x9 3D grid? Sounds fun for some and headache-inducing for others.
@nitro how about a sudo with 80 given digits - but an unknown number of them are incorrect? :)
should be called the shyfish, as it hides out of sight.
Or spell it Shyefish.
Or a Shy Swordfish
I love how large the "Normal sudoku rules apply." is.
Also amazing puzzle, bravo to shye and Simon!
Normal reading rules apply.
You are legally required to hear Simon say, 'Lets get cracking' before clicking on the link in the description to play.
Shye likes to telegraph which digits are significant with her labelling, and 147 is a set of options that she _knows_ Simon would comment on.
i was morphing the puzzle and got r1 to have the gaps in c147 and went "ooh 147 snooker max simon would like that" 😆
Congrats on 147 likes
16:10 I know Simon has to use time to explain his line of thinking but knowing I got a time faster than him made me happy today.
Haha same here xD
Yeah, he'd crush us all if he was getting on with it.
There was a far easier second digit that could have been gotten much earlier in the puzzle. @5:19 right after the 29 pair was found in box 4, the 5's in that box were forced into column 2 providing a 5 in r7c3. Of course, that 5 is about as useless as the 6 in box 8, but it's still there.
I saw that too. It is odd how fixated I become in that case.
@@randybartlett3042 I know what you mean. I loaded up the board to that point after posting this and neither the 5 or the 6 did squat. Without that 2 he got, I couldn’t find anything that did anything.
I found the 6, then the 5, then spent some hours on it... then watched the amazing solution.
Finally added in at 21:40 !
That's all I was able to do in this puzzle. Filled in every candidate and stared. Even after his explanation I don't get it.
How clever do you have to be to invent a sudoku technique? Phistomefel did it once or twice, but shye has now done it at least twice and on track for more
check out my puzzle takabisha for a third ;)
@@shye229 unfortunately it's almost certainly above my level, but thank you for the recommendation!
Btw, no one is talking about the bonus puzzle provided in the description, but it definitely deserves some love as well. I gave it a try thinking it would be an easy solve and it took me 39 minutes to get to the end. What an awesome combination of puzzles, I encourage everyone to also give it a go.
Yes it was "a" very fun puzzel(s)
I gave up after 2 hours
I have problem figuring out the rules)
I eventually cracked it after an embarrassing amount of time, because I missed an obvious starter. Because of that I was going round and round in circles and the puzzle looked unsolvable. A great puzzle!
_You_ were embarrassed. It took me over 3 hours. My problem is I have an aversion to filling in 3 or more potential digits in a single cell. While watching this video I realized that was a mistake. But at least I finally solved it despite myself.
Solved in 20:28, first time I've even gotten close to matching Simon's time, proud of that one!!
Same! Took me 6 minutes longer than Simon, but I've never come so close. Congrats!
I feel both proud and disappointed....... 11:29 for me to solve it.
Edit: Ok. Watching the video now. And I didn't do ANY of this 147 logic here. I'm now prouder for finding my own way, but am even more disappointed for missing that.
@@slavthesage5661 what was your way?
@@jackw7714 Honestly nothing fancy. Basic sudoku. Penciled in all options that appeared twice, entered singles, and kept repeating. If I did get held up, I don't remember what I did to get unstuck, but it had nothing to do with 147.
It took me 3 seconds! ok, I gotta remember to turn the timer back on after answering the door....
“Mythical Swordfish” is so intriguing. Tough puzzle considering 36 given digits. Neat break-in design, Shye.
Names:
- Catfish (because it cons you into thinking it's a fish)
- De-billed swordfish
- Chopped fish
- Grilled swordfish
👍🏻 for "catfish"
Catfish is the best suggestion, it's perfect. You know just what you're (not) getting.
Shyefish ;-) (because it hides and because the setter's name is Shye)
It basically blocks a swordfish. So, “shieldfish”? :-D
Ooo I like it!
A sword is like scissors, and rock beats scissors. Rockfish?
@@weisfelder a sword is half of a scissor so it'd be halfrockfish
pokemon vibes
Something I've always liked about genuinely smart people is that they make _you_ feel smart
I'm proud that I found the trick, though I needed some moral support and a lot of time. I had recognized the almost-swordfish pattern quite quickly but didn't immediately know what to do with it. I returned the next day and watched the video until I saw Simon focus on the same pattern. Then I paused the video again and found the trick.
I'm actually allergic to fish so I'm celebrating every anti-fish strategy in Sudoku!
Before watching Simon's solve: I don't know if it was the intended break in, but R6C4, sitting in the centre of a 147 cross, could be none of 1, 4, or 7, because of the impact of seeing R1C4 and R6C9, and their knock-on effect around the perimeter. Forcing it to be 2 blows open the puzzle.
After watching the video, I'm thinking that my spotting of the effect of the 147 in R6C4 was probably just another way of seeing the effect of the finned swordfish, without actually getting out any fishing tackle. I was aware of something close to a swordfish lurking, but was looking for y-wings when I spotted that if R6C4 contained any of 147, it behaved like the centre of a virtual 3-way y-wing with R1C4 and R6C9. On examination, whichever of 1, 4, or 7 was tried in R6C4 fixed either R1C4 or R6C9, which in turn fixed the cell at the opposite end of the row/column, and was therefore very powerful. Unlike a normal y-wing, which allows one to eliminate candidates, in this case, whichever of 147 is placed in the elbow breaks the puzzle. This meant that R6C4 had to be 2, and the rest fell apart.
I've never seen anything like this before, and I'm surprised to have spotted it, because I'm normally hopeless at spotting y-wings.
Very clever from Shye. I've no idea how she keeps coming up with these new twists, but it's a remarkable skill. I just hope she continues to use her powers for good.
I found the 2 this same way!
I'm not familiar with a lot of the terminology nor what a swordfish is (and I'll look it up shortly because it sounds fascinating) but this was my approach too. When I did my pencil markings I felt like R6C4 was crucial, and concluded it could only be 2. The way the numbers flowed out after that was beautiful - felt like I had solved a puzzle box and it opened up to show the inside. Very nice.
What does r6c4 mean I like watching theese videos just to feel dumb for some Reason I have no clue what anything means I only know basic sudoku rules not the special sudoku language
@@maiballs It's just shorthand notation for a specific cell. r1c1 is the cell in the top-left corner of the grid, and r9c9 is the bottom-right corner. In this case, it just means row 6, column 4. You might also see something like r6c7/8 meaning row 6, columns 7 & 8, or r6-8c7 meaning rows 6, 7, & 8 in column 7. You'll sometimes see something like "b7" meaning box 7 too. The boxes are numbered left to right, top to bottom (the same layout as the numbers on the keypad in the app).
@@Raven-Creations
I actually figured it out while watching the video I tried focusing on the little words so I could find out what the r and the c stands for and now I know r is the row number they are talking about and c is the column number
A very nice puzzle! Thanks for sharing. There's a simpler way to see the not-quite-swordfish, in case you're interested. If r6c4 is 1, 4 or 7 then there must be at least one duplicate digit in the four bottom left squares of the fish (r6c1, r6c4, r9c1 and r9c4) since there are four squares and only three digits to go in them. One of the duplicates goes column 1 and the other in column 4 which forces that digit into r1c7 to satisfy row 1. Similarly, one goes in row 6 and the other in row 9 which forces it into r3c9 to satisfy column 9. That breaks box 3. Therefore r6c4 is not 1, 4 or 7 so it must be 2.
Loved the puzzle. Would have guessed at it 2 years ago... But today, having wAtched Simon struggle all these years I figured it out in 21:35 such a great joy
Stunning puzzle, it’d be hard naming this technique. Since we’re trying to prove there isn’t a swordfish, I like the name Malevolent Revolving Swordfish. Idk, but still a well crafted puzzle that highlights the new technique and a great solve of it
It's like a swordfish hiding. One could call it a shy swordfish. Which also gives credit to it's creator.
@@chaosredefined3834 ooooh I love that
@@chaosredefined3834 That's definitely what it should be called!
15:51 ... I felt rather brilliant finding the key 'break-in' to solve this, but then felt rather foolish as my poor scanning took me far too long to finish the puzzle from there. Still, I'm happy I figured this one out.
Fun puzzle!
Thank you! I'm always happy to see classic Sudoku puzzles on this channel. Classics are what brought me here initially, and they are pretty much the only puzzles that bring me back here, because they don't require me to do math inside my head and can be completed fairly quickly.
There's a more elegant way to see the trick, once we've noticed the important squares:
What happens if the orange square is not a 2? A pattern emerges in the highlighted squares.
Consider the highlighted squares in c1 and c4. What digits populate those squares? Two sets of the digits 1, 4, and 7.
Now consider the highlighted squares in r6 and r9. What digits populate those squares? Two sets of the digits 1, 4, and 7.
Here's the step that Simon loves to explain, we now remove identical digits from the two equivalent sets (the bottom left four cells).
This tells us that the same two digits in r1c1,4 are also in r6,9c9, and standard row/column logic tells us that the highlighted squares in box 3 are also identical, which breaks the puzzle!
It's always so exciting when Simon goes quiet because you know the gears are whizzing in his head and something epic's about to go down
This puzzle reminds me of some of the lovely Japanese sudokus from the 90s, very nice Shye! Thank you for the solve, Simon.
I got another break in :
If you color the 2 cases of the almost swordfish in box 3, you instantly get 2 x-wings of these colors on the rest of the swordfish. Using this and the pairs in boxes 2, 4 and 6, and the 6 in box 8, we can restrict these two colors in colomn 4 and row 5. This allows us to get a 5 in box 4 and 8 in box 8.
He explains the "swordfish" and "finned swordfish" for a good few minutes, but that logic just went over my head... I just saw that if its a 4, the other box can't be a 4 because of sudoku logic (in the same 3x3 box)
Did it in 9:11. Probably my first sub ten-minute time from a puzzle played on this channel in...ever? lmao
Once I realized the suspicious pattern of 1s, 4s, and 7s around the outer ring of the grid and looking for contradictions, things fell into place very quickly. Awesome puzzle!
Rules: 02:22
Let's get cracking: 02:32
And how about this video's Simarkisms?!
Sorry: 4 (04:00, 08:17, 13:20, 16:38)
The Answer is: 3 (16:25, 16:59, 17:23)
Shouting: 2 (10:44, 20:07)
Bobbins: 1 (05:30)
Good Grief: 1 (22:28)
Apologies: 1 (10:42)
Naked Single: 1 (21:03)
Secret: 1 (22:45)
Clever: 1 (19:38)
Beautiful: 1 (20:13)
Brilliant: 1 (23:06)
Incredible: 1 (01:42)
Extraordinary: 1 (01:18)
Inarticulate: 1 (13:17)
Oh It Can!: 1 (03:53)
FAQ:
Q1: What is a Simarkism?
A1: A Simarkism is something that Simon and Mark typically or frequently say.
Q2: How do you do this so fast?
A2: I'm not made of flesh and blood, but of sand ...
Q3: Why don't you include 'XX' and 'YY'?
A3: Probably it's already on the list, but not mentioned in this video. But if you think it's not, tell me what you'd like me to include and there's a good chance I'll add it!
Q4: You missed 'XX' at 'YY:ZZ'!
A4: That could very well be the case! Human speech is hard to understand for computers like me, especially British sometimes! Point out the ones that I missed and maybe I'll learn!
You are a machiene
this was soo fast
Good bot.
I feel like you should add a lot of “fish” just for this
@@jacksonvance7219 correct
Shye and Simon, a genius setter and a genius solver. Another great video on CtC.
Great to find a classic sudoku break-in, thought this one was very neat and well explained by Simon as to how it actually works. As for a possible name, how about a ‘sword-myth’? Thanks Shye and Simon.
Either that, or a Shyefish
this was the first sudoku i've played and it took me 80 minutes using the link in your description. i am both amazed at how much harder it is than you make it look, as well as how much fun i had trying to solve it myself. now to enjoy your video. thank you for the content!
It should be called the “Shyefish”, because “trio of finned swordfish that you have to avoid in order to not break the puzzle” is a mouthful.
I love the narrative that arose here. Shye almost created a Lovecraftian story, where the solver must prevent the awakening of the Mythical Finned Swordfish that will destroy the world. But, ya know, as a sudoku.
Using three colors made this puzzle go fairly straightforward for me in helping break down the middle box and determine r6c4 couldn't be a 147
that's exactly how I did it too, seemed simpler
Given that Shye is one of the best constructors, another beautiful puzzle
26m28s for me. I did it with some colouring and very short logic chains that proved that 1s, 4s, or 7s had to go into certain squares regardless of what colour a given square was.
I think it's really interesting how quickly it breaks apart if you figure out that r6c4 cannot be a 1, 4 or 7. A fast way to get there (if you get the idea which I didn't) is to think about whether it is possible that there _isn't_ a 1, a 4, and a 7 looking at that square, i.e. if there are two identical pairs such as two 4s and two 7s at the outer edge seeing r6c4. Turns out that's easy to verify is impossible and then you write a 2 in r6c4 and the puzzle breaks apart immediately.
Who knew that Sudoku could be so exciting that you find yourself on a Saturday afternoon, fighting a mythical floating swordfish to save the puzzle. Absolutely brilliant!
I came to the same conclusion without using the impossible finned swordfish logic. I noticed that the 1-4 pair in r9c1 always had a partner in box 3 and in EITHER r1c4 or r6c9, and it created a pair of the other 2 digits in row 6 or column 4, so that in either configuration, all three digits were looking at r6c4, forcing it to be a 2.
This is what I noticed too
I loved Simon's solve of this puzzle so much I made a video on my channel where I
analyze each step of this solve. In addition to explaining the
strategies used, I add a couple of pause the video moments and some
alternate solving paths, similar to how someone analyzes a chess game.
When Simon said "Friday", I was like: Oh. Did I just miss a day of work?!?! LOL
13:00 with some downtime in it. This is one of those rare times where I immediately went to coloring and succeeded with the r6c4 break-in.
At minute 15 I paused the video and thought about that cental square. It took 5 minutes and 2 croissants to follow your instinct about weird pattern. And I figured it out thanks to your hint.
I spotted my view at cage 3 which contents 2 of 3 line numbers. Then theese numbers cannot repeat there, and that was the key to the pattern. If one is blue and second is red and central square is one of them then I can follow painting because I always get 2 of 3 numbers facing one square. And I got contradiction every time plus the case of central cage was third - yellow. I could never done this before I saw your videos. Thank you.
Patto in Italian is an agreement, usually very formal and binding to do something.
Patto in Japanese is suddenly.
Patto in Urdu is to mislead or betray.
Honestly I feel like the last two fit, the 1247 combo being suddenly broken and the puzzle giving up as soon as you break it feels like either or both translations are good choices.
55:33, the first CTC puzzle I've ever done and no idea actually how, but it worked! Now to find out what I was supposed to be thinking other than 'I don't know why, but that is definitely a 7' which just gave me the whole thing (I think it was a 7). I highlighted all the (these three digits)-only squares after half an hour of getting nowhere (I found two digits and some triples and pairs) and somehow staring at that for a while let me see what a number a cell was and the rest was just filling in...
So yes, first time solver! Love this channel even if logic is not my strong suit. I mean I'm not sure if it even counts as a solve but I didn't give up in despair so yay?
You made the logic so complicated. Just do this: In the small square, made of r6c1, r6c4, r9c1 and r9c4, one of the digits 147 has to repeat. that forces the repeated digit into r1c7 on row one and into r3c9 in column 9. We get the same digit in box3 twice, therefor r6c4 cannot be any of the 147.
I didn’t think that in so many words, but I was on that path.
@@rabidsamfan when you have to explain your logic in words it takes a lot more of them than you think. Simon and Mark would solve much faster if they didnt have to speak their thought processes out loud. I could have written:
small square crates same pair in peripheries and that puts the 3rd digit twice in box3, but that would not be as easy to understand for everyone.
Thank you. Nicely explained.
@LednacekZ I agree. Technically what Simon was using as a swordfish was not actually a swordfish. There were blank spaces in column 4 which could have been any of those candidates and therefore violated the swordfish. I'm not sure why no one else is pointing this out in the comments, but it was never an allowable swordfish. I believe that your logic has properly pinpointed r6c4 as the key to the puzzle, but not because it is part of a swordfish.
Your solve was definitely the "solve as intended" and far more elegant than mine! I hit the point with the highlighted squares that you did and started thinking about how constrained the colored squares are (i.e. given current info, how many possible arrangements are there). Noticed that if (4,9) is a 7 it fixes the values of the entire outer ring, but such that 1 is not placeable in box 5. So got (4,9) as a 1 from that. The only other technique that is then needed is some X-wing logic between (1,4), (1,1), (4,4) and (4,1) that then places (4,4) as a 2.
Your solve was more interesting though!
Ok, this one I did completely different than Simon. I do now about Swordfish, but I think it doesn't need it. I did all the sudoku I could, ended with 6 at box 8, 5 at box 7 and 1,4 pair, 2,8 pair in box 2 and 2,9 pair in box 4. Then i did the 1,4,6 around the edges. I colored them on the top row - red in the box 1 (1,4,7), yellow in box 2 (1,7) and green in box 3 (1,4,7) and red/yellow the first 1,4,7 down in the 9th column. Then went down with the first column - 1,4,7 in box 4 is now yellow/green and 1,4 in box 7 is also either yellow/green, since it sees the red. Now, because box 7 has 1,4 pair (7 is given), that means the other 1,4 is also now yellow/green, making the one in box 4 into 1,4 options as well and making red now 7. This makes yellow now 1, since we have 1,7 in box 2 and green is 4. After that it was just basic sudoku.
Wow that was difficult. Took me 67 minutes but I'm proud of myself!
I managed to solve this using set theory instead and was so excited I figured out the trick but it turns out there was a whole other lesson to learn.
How did you solve it using ser theory? I’m quite interested now haha
@@miguelescalantemilke7204 Highlight rows 1, 6 and 9 as one set and columns 1, 3 and 9 as the other set and see how you do.
It's been two weeks and I don't feel like rewatching the video, but there is definitely overlap with Simon's method though I distinctly remember not using whatever technique he had highlighted and being sad I didn't figure out the "trick" to the puzzle.
Took me a bit, but I found that crucial square and was off. Lots of fun!
10:50 for me. Though I after getting a few digits and getting over a dozen 147 or some subset thereof, I did do the whole "what if this was a 4, would that break anything?" and it turned out to be the right number and solve the whole thing.
I did the same thing with the 1/4 in the corner, but unfortunately chose 1 instead of 4 first and it took a while to break. I saw the 2, but my logic brain wasn't confident that the puzzle would break, so I went for the 50/50 shot instead.
Immediately saw the 147s around the perimeter... then stopped to ponder, and ponder, and ponder, and cuss, and ponder.
20 minutes later, after pencil marking the rest of the puzzle, I pondered more, and more.
Gave up.
Watched Simon.
Even after watching, I know I would never have figured it out.
Good job, Simon!
Great puzzle, Shye!
Another way to show that the orange square must be a two is that no matter what, the orange square always is seen by a 1, 4, and 7 since 1 4 and 7 must fit into the four squares above, below, left, and right of it on the perimeter. It turns out that you can’t have two pairs of the same number in those four boxes described above. That’s the way I saw it!
Well, I can't deny that I was extremely proud to have solved this in 8:47. The (almost) 1-4-7 swordfish that emerges if r6c4 is not a 2 is just beautiful.
Similarly, I noticed the 147 sets along the borders and how r6c4 appeared to be significant. Evaluating some of the logical chains (e.g. if r6c4=1 then box 3 is a problem, etc) started narrowing down the options beautifully.
Wow, it took me 15 minutes. I solved this thanks to 1457 combination in the middle (Im not that good with terms, but it was 6th horisontal line). After that it was pure joy )))
Ha HA, 15 minutes! I have never beat Simon nor Mark before. Noting they explain everything so well as they go; still, this is very good for me. (continued with spoilers)
I intuitively saw that broken swordfish on 14&7s and the 2 in box 5, first thing. I'm so stoked. Thank you Shye, and our teachers Mark and Simon. Thanks for helping make me smarter.
And I did not bifurcate. So better for me. 🙂
16:43 but not as logical as Simon. Well solved Simon, I enjoy your patient and focused approach to finding the true path. Thanks to Shye as well for another original puzzle.
Been watchning for 18 months and this is the first time I've finished before Simon, though I wasn't trying to explain aloud my logic - regardless, this is a huge personal milestone for me, I'm finally getting to grips with sudoku!!! - great video!
I got it before video-Simon this time! feels good :D
I resolved the bottom left 1-4 as a chain and found the 2 in the center box, which then resolved the whole thing.
I love it when Simon mentions the term "snooker maximum" in a sudoku. I've used that all the time in my own solving - 147 is a lovely number
It's obviously a Shye Swordfish, it doesn't want to be there!
I'm new to this channel and love Sudoku puzzles, but I'm clearly a novice because as soon as he said "...there are hundreds of cells in this puzzle...." I straight away realised that I must be doing it wrong.....great channel!
I analysed this sudoku and I found that if you include that 2 in the givens, you can remove eleven other givens and still obtain this sudoku:
023060009900004005500000000000300010080590002000286300000000006807020003096000800
It is a 26-given sudoku which is solvable using only hidden singles. But this 36-given sudoku in the video is requiring many advanced techniques. This means that the 2 in the central box is very important. And if it wasn't for that technique, that would be very difficult. This technique has a tremendous potential!
Brutally clever! I propose we call the structure in this puzzle a False Swordfish. As for me, I'm still learning advanced sudoku techniques and I can spot x-wings and regular swordfish, but not y-wings or the false swordfish in this puzzle. I tried solving this one myself and had to finally refer to the video to see what the trick was. My final time was around 75 minutes.
wow, that was a really fun one! a year ago would never have thought to look for this kind of trick, and now it almost comes naturally
I don't know what my time was as I paused the timer and like to have it hidden, but this is the first puzzle featured on the channel that I've managed to solve. It honestly doesn't feel like I took that long, and I did it without noticing the trick.
This was the first puzzle where I thought I recognized the trick before you and hit the "play myself" button. Well as the american kids would say; "I played myself". I don't know what a swordfish is so that 1247 " must be a 2" box, I said "can't be a 2 because it'd be the only thing that's 147 or something else" and the wholeeee thing was wrong. I had to come back and unpause and then you fixed that box so I wiped my puzzle and started over and enjoyed your site's sudoku player interface for the first time to a completed puzzle :D .
Wow, I'm stunned with myself. I normally take minimum twice as long as Simon, when I do get to the end without error. Today I managed to snap-finish it in half the length of Simon's video!!! Unheard of (for me). [PS: duration of the video all explained by the mystical analysis of the finned swordfish - which I did not go near in my solve]
Indeed a beautiful idea, not sure what to call it, maybe bent triple-grid?
SPOILER ALERT:
I immediately zoned in on the Bermuda triangle where it all happens: r6c4, piloted by r9c1 :-)
I solved this in 16.5mins basically just marking all of the candidates which were confined to 2 cells per unit as usual, and then using the Phistomefel Ring to disambiguate some of the pairs :)
First CTC puzzle I've ever attempted
I don't know if this has been mentioned but in the center left box the 5/7 could be noted as being in the 2 center pieces removing the 7 from the 1/4/7 in the bottom left of that box which gives us the 5 in the top right of the bottom left box and the 7 in the top left of the top right box. With that information we have enough to solve the puzzle normally without overthinking this and relying on the swordfish
I'm so confused how nobody else saw this
I have no idea how Simon figures out complex logic that I can't even understand after he explains it sometimes, but then just completely botch the basic sudoku scanning.
Never change Simon 😂😂
Wow that was awesome 15:21 and that included me seeing a mistake half way through. Grinning like a cheshire cat. Thankyou
8:12 and what a weird experience it was to "beat" Simon for the first time ever. I started by using SET: I noodled the Phistomefel ring and the related corner squares and looked at nines first. Bingo. I couldn't believe the first number I checked basically cracked the whole puzzle . I would have not had any change to figure out the intended swordfish technique, but still feels nice to have completed the puzzle extremely fast compared to my usual experience of trying for hours and quite often giving up :D
I also beat this in about 8 minutes without seeing this swordfish trick. In fact it felt like a totally normal sudoku to me - which makes me wonder if I made a faulty leap of logic at some point and just happened to get lucky.
At 16:02 the explanation of the "finned" swordfish could be a bit easier to understand if you do it the other way around - any digit X (out of 1-4-7) placed in R3C9 will force an x-wing in R6C1-R6C4-R9C1-R9C4 (the lower left 2x2 part of the "fish"), therefore that digit X cannot appear in first two cells of the fish (R1C1, R1C4) and then X is forced into R1C7 resulting in two cells in box 3 being X.
A slightly alternative break-in (and a fun coloring exercise), which in some way just proves the swordfish logic, is to use set theory on rows 1, 6, 9 vs. columns 1, 4, 9. After eliminating the overlaps and matching givens, you are left with 5 cells of each color. The cells R2C4 and R6C3 from each set will be the only place where 2 would go if it's in the sets. It's easy to show that if 2 is in those cells, the cells R1C7 and R3C9 (the fins of the fish) will have to be the same because they are the only cells left from each set after others cells will match. That immediately leads to R2C4 and R6C3 to be 8 and 9 respectively and 2 getting into R6C4 as in Simon's break-in.
Solved in 6:27 with only the most basic of techniques. I did all the basic pencil marking (including the 2/8 pair in box 2 Simon missed (it helps)) and then I filled in all possible places 1/4/7 could go. A little clean-up and you find a 5/7 pair in box 4 which then reduces the 1/4/7 in box 4 to a 1/4 pair. A little more basic elimination and you get a 4 in r6c9 which begins to unwind all the 1/4/7s in the rest of the puzzle.
I have not watched the video yet, but i am so impressed at how shye basically baited me to find the trick with that top row that was craving to be filled with 147 to complete the progression, and to fill the grid so much that the empty cells basically shout for the fakeout of the double swordfish!
Now I just wonder how Simon will name this trick in his solve!
Yay. First time I've ever beat Simon. Mind you, I did watch Simon to get the break in and then it was easy enough to do by myself.
A very cool study. Without the information about the nature of the puzzle i'd pencil mark and struggle, but i saw similar telegraphing before and instantly knew i needed to highlight the broken swordfish and almost immediately after recognized which square would be the key to this arrangement. I didn't rush, proved with coloring the interesting cell can't be the same as any of the 147 digits in row 1 (Simon's proof is much more elegant and memorable) my total time for the puzzle was 13 min. The name "broken swordfish" is my first impression, but it's too generic. "Shieldfish" suggested by Leick is amusing. The pattern when viewed along the positive diagonal is way wider than it is long - so i suggest a fish it kinda resembles - "manta ray".
Able to solve it without the trick in 40ish minutes. Had I been able to see the trick it would have been 10ish. This is truly amazing, always fun to do a shye puzzle. Now I have to keep this "floating fish" (AKA shye-fish) in mind.
I just got around to this puzzle - for the fun of it, I started out with pencilmarking everything. Then it pops right out at you! :)
i literally have no idea how to play sudoku and yet i love your videos
16:13 for me. I found some logic that felt a little bit like bifurcation but elegant bifurcation at least. I don’t think that was the intended break-in for the puzzle though, so I’ll have to watch the video to know what I missed.
Edit: So I was sure that r6c4 had to be the key to the puzzle, but I needed a little bit of ‘if.. then…’ to get to that logic Simon immediately saw. What a great puzzle that was, as it is always with shye.
If Simon had pencil marked the 2s in box five at the start I think he might have gotten there faster. But he was still pretty fast.
Trifurcation for me on ones, fours, and sevens.
Every time I see 147: perfect snooker
I somehow manged to figure a 2 into the top right of box 5 and that threw me straight into the impossible 1 4 7 dead end. I don't think i'm cut out for these super clever puzzles.
STINGRAY!
This is essentially an inverted finned swordfish. I vote it should be called a stingray due to 1 the violent end is inverted , 2 stingrays are kind of circular which this pattern creates and, 3 stingrays are pretty much all fin.
That was a very clever puzzle... I think I was "lucky" to guess the swordfish didnt work, but I didn't go into as much detail as Simon (in my head)... but solved in 35. Great new technique
I got the 147's as the only digits that appear once and was wondering if we would get the snooker reference. As usual Simon does not disappoint!
Once you figure out that r6c4 is a "2", the puzzle just breaks down completely. Obviously, I did look at those "147s" (I love the snooker reference, btw) but, ultimately, I couldn't spot the trick; instead, I had to rely on a string of chains to get to the same conclusion... in twice the time😅. I find chains a little bit unfair (too similar to bifurcation, imho) but, hey, I'm an amateur so I'm allowed. Oh, one last thing: I'm sure everybody watching noticed that the "5" in r7c3 was there since the beginning and Simon didn't spot it, so that's a win for me/us 😁
I love Cracking The Cryptic, and you guys have helped me get so much better at Sudoku, and you are so brilliant. Normally there are things you spot and I am just like ".-. how" but I am going to be honest, today I was shouting at my screen like "THATS A 2 8 PAIR, THAT IS A SIX, OH LORDY" hahaha, keep doing awesome though, no hate intended at all.
As someone who just casually does this, this puzzle made me realize i need to learn some of those techniques. I got to a spot where I couldn't make any more progress. Came back over here to watch how you did it, then once i saw you force that 2, i solved mine in 5 minutes.. after looking at mine for 2 hours prior.
I figured I might give this one a go.
But when I saw the only rule is "normal sudoku rules apply" I realised there was no chance of me figuring it out.
And watching the video has confirmed that.
Listening to you describe the beauty of a puzzle and all of the things that make it unique must be poetry spoken to the soul of its creator. Well done and well spoken
I straight cracked up when he said “bobbins”
Patto, as well as meaning suddenly in japanese, in italian means a pact so could be a pact by the 1,4,7, to bamboozle Simon
Good puzzle took me 45mins to solve.. The first obvious think was the perimeter needing 147 then it was just a matter of looking for bend triples
Idk if there was some clever swordfish trick or something with the 1-4-7 patterns but I just deduced that r5c couldn't be a 1 or a 7 because it broke to edge rows/columns, and it fell apart quickly from there. Took me half an hour.
You really made a meal of this Simon. If we assume r6c4 is NOT 2, then it follows that the 4 cells {r6c1, r6c4, r9c1 and r9c4} must include at least one repeated digit, because there would only be 3 candidates between them (the 1, 4 and 7). No matter which digits are repeated, the puzzle is broken because both pink cells in box 3 must take that same digit as they are the only remaining candidates for that digit in row 1 and column 9 respectively. Thus it follows that there can be no repeated digits in the four cells and r6c4 must take the 2. From there the puzzle collapses in short order.