Marxist Economist debates FOX's Stuart Varney about Socialism
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- Опубліковано 18 жов 2024
- Economist and d@w founder Richard Wolff joined Fox Business on July 31st, 2017 to debate with Stuart Varney about socialism, capitalism, and taxes.
For more from Professor Wolff and d@w please visit our website: www.democracyatwork.info
Well spoken Mr. Wolff
Love RICHARD!
Well spoken perhaps but not well supported. Visit a Socialist country.
I'm honored to say I've actually met professor wolff in person :)
@Josh M You have little idea how much you rely on socialism already otherwise you wouldn't have made that thoughtless illinformed comment. Talk about brain-dead.
@Josh M One would think the fact that we're have this conversation on youtube, a website that's become more and more shit, would give you a clue as to how shit capitalism is.
Same goes for the fact that we're even having a conversation about net neutrality
Ey you kinda cute doe
Professor Wolff knows what he was doing here. If you come at Blarneystone hard about his indefensible positions, he throws a tantrum and ends the interview.
This is something that mature debaters and advocates understand, and Le Reddit army and other armchair activists NEVER will.
It's never been about "winning" an argument a la getting the opponent to break down, cry and tell you that you're right. But for whatever reason, way too many people view the world exactly like that, and they only get their views ignored/downvoted/mocked.
You have to be graceful enough to stay on the stage, for your objective is to plant new ideas into the AUDIENCE's minds, not hack away at the ideas in your opponent's.
Darth Plagueis The Wise well said. The internet interactions with their up/down voting promote shortsightedness and bias confirmation.
@@darthplagueisthewise331 Brilliantly put. Thank you.
This Varney guy is heavily outmatched. That was no debate.
Varney volunteered so if he looks like a fool...
Gustavo: You are right but he legitimizes the smug denial of the point Dr. Wolff tries but fails to make. Jeff Bezoz didn't build Amazon by himself and that premise got quickly swept under the rug. He had a buttload of attorneys and high finance guys build it. And like Trump he gets to put his name on the title. ... There's more; but why disclose what isn't required?
Well, he did start out saying he is a child of the 60's. And he's nothing but a baby boomer dinosaur who's intellectual evolution clearly stopped somewhere back when the Cold War propaganda machine was in full swing.
Moreover a lot of Amazon products, especially in the high tech sector, are built on intellectual property developed in the public sector and paid for by the tax payer. If only the tax payer could derive a dividend somehow on technology and IP that was just handed over to the private sector hmmmm...
rudiger: That is a very important point. It applies to health care too, in that every patient contributes to the intellectual property of medical care. Where are those dividends?
When the interviewer thinks 'at what point do you take his property' is a gotcha question, Wolff already won.
It's so easy and just. You don't tax a person's labor. You tax the exploitation of his labor i.e. the ownership of stock = ownership of the means of production. And give heavy incentives to worker owned companies.
Dr. Wolff you nailed it
@@_AutoCoder i think the same!
David Turner Worker owned companies will never grow as much as corporations, incentives won’t change that.
What would you do if you don't have stocks? Let's say you own a factory, how would you tax that? Would you tax the price of the factory? I don't think so. It looks like you would need tax the money you earn. The same thing we have now. I think the original Marx's idea was not letting to have someone alone the factory in the first place. So this whole idea sounds pretty strange to me.
@@lucianraphael9527 seem that you never heard of the Mondragon Corporation.
Hats off to Dr. Wolf for being so patient with that man-child. Fr
socialism causes everyone to be equally poor
@@voluntarism335 And capitalism forces everyone to be equally stupid..
@@voluntarism335 no
@@ikeman9784 That made no sense.
@@voluntarism335 In what sense are you using the word "poor"? That is not a simple assertion. Human beings have a universal hierarchy of needs to survive and thrive:
Physical: Air, Shelter, Water, Food, Medicine and Safety.
Emotional: Companionship\Romantic Love, Belonging, Contribution and Security.
Intellectual: Education, Accomplishment and Self-actualization.
If an individual has these *needs* met, he or she is rich by any objective measure. Or is it that you are taking about poverty in terms of acquisition of arbitrary *wants* and *whims* via extrinsic rewards over intrinsic rewards?
Money has no objective root, it is no longer a tool of trade but has become a permission slip of survival. Capitalism promulgates this more so than properly organized socialism. Capitalism is built on might makes right "ethics" and structural violence. It is unsustainable at every level.
Holy sh*t they let him on MSM?! What next, Chomsky allowed back on pbs/npr?
icepick method lol
icepick method Where is the rest of it?
i was wondering the same thing.
icepick method He always uses the same tired ass tax arguments. The guy is a hack on the highest order.
So............ did you people here seriously not watch the debate between Cenk Uyrgur and Ben Shapiro last night? Ben Shapiro slaughtered Cenk on everything, from universal healthcare to why the great depression really happened, I'll give you all an example of what I'm talking about.
Just read Sowell's "Trickle Down Theory and Tax Cuts for the Rich". When the tax rate on those making more than $100K per year was cut from 73% at the beginning of the Harding administration to 24% at the end of the Coolidge administration, the tax revenue ballooned and the tax burden shifted onto the rich . People who made more than $100K per year paid 30% of $700M ($210M) in 1921 and 65% of over $1 billion in 1928 (> $650M). Equivalently, those who made less than $100K per year paid about $490M in 1921 and $350M in 1928. If you want the "have nots" to pay less in taxes, while the "haves" pay more, this seems like a clear illustration of what to do.
Overall, it was a water buffalo genocide; Cenk sounded like a WWE heel at the end; and this "debate" (it was obviously a slaughter fest) created a Thug Life gold mine. On top of that, now, I want a Sowell-Cenk debate on tax policy.
Credits to Fox here, it wasn't nearly as bad as I'd expect from them. Still bad, just not _as bad as possible._
Eh, it's Fox Business. Most of Fox Business is like one quarter step down from normal Fox insanity
Yeah, Varney's usually more rabid and disingenuous when criticizing socialism. Interesting that he didn't take such a hard stance. Although I think it's because he's interviewing someone roughly the same age instead of some 20-something this time.
It was actually pretty great. I see no reason why a Fox viewer wouldn't like Wolff. Varney certainly seemed to. This is extremely important for people to question what they have, having a person they like standing as a strong example.
because these ideas are still new to the mainstream. they don't think they need their big guns yet.
Darth Plagueis The Wise I disagree. But still, Varney doesn't need to take a hard stance, because someone like Wolff has no credibility with the viewership. No one will be convinced or question their conceptions. Fox, MSNBC, etc. are just preaching to their respective choirs.
how is it a "debate" when mr varney just performs a gish gallop from start to finish?
I also read the TIL on Reddit about gish gallop. But I see that Varney did not try to do so in this interview.
Parroting whatever phrases you just read about is no way to go about life.
deanna smith
Good call.
Agreed! In fact, I cannot find a single legitimate debate that this hack has been involved in...
One does not simply win a debate against Richard Wolff
PieInTheSky. No , one destroys him....
Can anyone please post an actual debate that this hack has been in? For the life of me I can't find it! He seems to just push his rubbish ideas with hardly any kickback...
I would pay mad bucks to see Wolff stand up to a real economist and try to defend his century old debunked theories, and not just casually ear-kiss journalists.
ohad157 why don’t you debate him?
PieInTheSky
He knows the facts, his points are honest and he speaks clearly.
When a well informed anti-capitalist/socialist goes up against a capitalist the capitlaist loses. Because capitlaism always eats itself, the people and the resources for "economic growth" for a small elite.
"Another means of silently lessening the inequality of property is to exempt all from taxation below a certain point, and to tax the higher portions of property in geometrical progression as they rise"
- Thomas Jefferson
"WTF I hate the founding fathers now!" - r/neoliberal and other Chicago Boys.
@Darth, neoliberal=libertarian!
Huh, where did Jefferson say this?
+The Cooperative Individualist We have the world of information at our hand, but to assist reference his letter Oct 28 1785 to Madison.
At that rate, if thinking in terms of real property as in real estate, it would allow for everyone to be able to own a very modest home more securely, and to prevent someone from buying up everything and interacting in the economy like a nobleman, or a king.
It would encourage those on the both ends of the financial spectrum to do what is better for society while they are simply doing what is best for themselves.
The middle would grow because most people like nice things and to advance, and those at the top would actually be more financially and physically secure too, in a more stable economy for everyone and the environment that would foster.
Mr. Wolff. Wonderful and truthful. Nice. Thank you
Prof. Wolff makes a lot of good points. Varney is so predictable, all he does is talk quickly in circles. He never stays in one place cause he has no answer for Wolff's answers.
This is a debate.
Great job! I'm surprised they gave you 5 mins.
Wolff carries himself so well
Such an amazing job Richard. Can't believe they let you on.
Shared to my right wing friends on Facebook, keep up the good works Dr. Wolff.
We love you Richard Wolff !
BRAVO PROFESSOR!! (applaud) stand your ground. no one man should have more than he can spend in 10 lifetimes. I too look forward to your dream of what America can be/should be.
Who the hell do you think you are?
notice the host guy doesn't want to have a real conversation. he wants to play ping pong
Love Dr. Wolff
Varney can't understand the concept of taxing income gained by not working. Wolff is just trying to equalize things a bit by taxing the rich, who mostly get their income from things like capital gains (dividends, stock, property value increases, interest...etc). I'm a little surprised by this, since Varney said he had to learn about Marxism.
That's because he should've learned that Capitalists earn their income from their capital - the ability to hire people to work for them, and sell the fruits of that worker's labor for a profit. So, the capitalist does not contribute to the actual production of goods and services, merely facilitates it (at a great cost). You can travel back in time and see how this was possible - because of the inequalities that have existed due to wars and social structures (threats of violence, theft, feudalism, slavery). The capital the Capitalists have came from these earlier inequalities, and allows them to perpetuate inequality into the future. This is unethical to say the least.
Marx realized this a long time ago, and thus the critique of Capitalism and the creation of Socialism. Back to the Varney debate though - taxing non-earned income, such as capital gains, interest and the like, would ease inequality caused by the fundamental mechanics of Capitalism. Again, not hard to understand really.
Workers are taxed at a higher rate than capitalist right now, and that's a problem, especially given the state of our economy and the levels of inequality.
The problem with highering taxes on companies and capital gains is that they will try to leave the country and move the production somewhere else. If we ever want the rich to pay their fair share(using an oxymoron here) we need to make it an international effort. Lately the european union tried to create a minimum tax on all companies of as little as 5% litteraly just 5% if one of the countries allowed them to pay lower than that they would pay a fine to the european union. Because company taxes are a race to the bottom. But sadly my country(the netherlands) vetoed that bill. (We are often called a tax haven) and i despise it. But atleast we got universal healthcare paid vacation maternity leave and other stuff some americans can only dream of as a right.
@@shavingryansprivates4332 they move production elsewhere anyway regardless because they can realize a huge profit from cheaper labor costs. Another problem that is built into capitalism itself.
Nice try, John. Taxing income IE having the monopoly power and force of government as your partner, able to invade your home and scrutinize your earnings whenever it so pleases, is IMHO reverting our Republic from the rule of law to the rule of government, against which we fought a revolution. I look forward to dumping the income tax and replacing it with a tax on SPENDING/CONSUMPTION, everyone pays an equal percentage across the board. Something like www.fairtax.org. Equal protection under the law does NOT provide for me being taxed UNEQUALLY on the fruits of my labor, as determined by politicians and bureaucrats.
well ... he said, that there was a marxist fashion. which, of course, goes - and comes - as fashion does, not being of any importance at all ... honestly, i really do admire r wolff for being able to talk to this kind of condescendence incarnate!
The capitalist does contribute to production! He is the one the organizes land, labor, and capital in such a way to satisfy the desires of consumers
For example: Income Bezos acquired from HUGE sales of Amazon stock (a capital gain). That is what Wolff is talking about Varney, if you would let him finish. Outmatched.
Well done professor, keeping a cool head and sticking to the topic is all anyone can do in that kind of context. Viewers saw a charismatic, friendly, reasonable Marxist on screen being taken seriously enough to even talk to, and that's all we need for right now.
Richard Wolf is awesome
This should be longer!
Deathculture - cant be or else their worldview will be killed live on air.
Despite Varney's infuriating condescension, Dr. Wolff handled himself very well, as I knew he would.
“All Property, indeed, except the Savage's temporary Cabin, his Bow, his Matchcoat, and other little Acquisitions, absolutely necessary for his Subsistence, seems to me to be the Creature of public Convention. Hence the Public has the Right of Regulating Descents, and all other Conveyances of Property, and even of limiting the Quantity and the Uses of it. All the Property that is necessary to a Man, for the Conservation of the Individual and the Propagation of the Species, is his natural Right, which none can justly deprive him of: But all Property superfluous to such purposes is the Property of the Publick, who, by their Laws, have created it, and who may therefore by other Laws dispose of it, whenever the Welfare of the Publick shall demand such Disposition. He that does not like civil Society on these Terms, let him retire and live among Savages. He can have no right to the benefits of Society, who will not pay his Club towards the Support of it.”
- Benjamin Franklin
Everyone knows Ben Franklin was a Marxist lefty.
Bravo Ben Franklin, bravo Karl Marx, bravo.
Wolff vs Fox we know who wins in nature...
@Andrea MENDENHALL In the age of Bitcoin his money only exists in electron form... Elon Musk is the mark you are looking for
Barney just has an interruption argument. Wolff is awesome and very clear with his explanation of socialism. Capitalism has created an extreme income and wealth inequality like prior to the Great Depression. Discussion is great.
Craig Holman There are less people living in poverty compared to 1990 due to capitalism. China pulled hundreds of millions of people out of impoverished conditions due to capitalism.
Professor Wolff, your GREAT!!!
Honestly both sides were respectable and raised interesting questions. This is what we need to see more often.
I'm glad Prof. Wolff is able to talk on mainstream medias. I don't know what the following parts cover, but I wish he could have actually talked about socialism, which is way more than economical theories. It's about social organization, extension of political life in economic life, and indeed "democracy at work".
I wish he could talk about the core of socialism on mainstream medias without the fear of people not taking him seriously. In the 19th and early 20th century, this idea was actually mainstream, and not only among workers. "The ones who work in the mills should own the mills": ironically, sth of this ilk would be the slogan of the Republican party back then, and indeed a very conservative idea -- note that conservatism, just as liberalism, met many distortions through the centuries.
Well, this was socialist and (!) liberal ideas back then. Why is it such a "taboo" to talk about them today? Especially when we desperately need change, and when looking back isn't that of a bad idea...
+Adri Fo, how was that a conservative idea? The only major historical division within conservatism is between classical/traditionalist and liberal conservatism.
We in America are watching and complaining about the failures of capitalism but many are just not ready to recognize that the failure is due to the fundamental flaws in the system Most just find something to blame like "taxation" "job exportation" "mexicans" and any other number of excuses.
Marx predicted all these ills we are experiencing more and more every year but no one wants to consider the Labor Theory of Value may be correct because it comes from a "socialist/communist".
Well speaking about socialism on Fox News is not an easy task. Good interview! Good job professor!
Great points Mr Wolff, nobody can argue with your rationality, period.
Varney actually did okay until the very end there (by that I mean not that he held his own but that he didn't even try to debate Dr. Wolff. Once he started trying to argue he got fucked.)
If I understood varney right, he is basically arguing that "you can't tax Beezos, haha, because the guy will just get loans from the bank." "So try all you want mr socialist to tax billionaires, but you can't because they'll cheat, haha." WOW!
Even Adam Smith said that one of several preconditions for capitalism was to eliminate economic rent/unearned income.
Varney, dude, there is no "freedom". You play the game of Monopoly or you don't play at all. You call that freedom because you have yours. Those who don't have shit have no freedom at all. There is no greater violence perpetrated on the human race than poverty. To guys like Varney, it's all some damned game. And of course he loves it, he is winning. I dream of guys like him having some bad luck, bad choices, and hard times to teach him a little humility. What a jerk.
Wolff nails it again!!👍👍👏👏
Excellent job, professor! Keep fighting the good fight!
You live in a Capitalist Society as a Socialist. Interesting.
when having a guest so willing and free to answer the questions why get interrupted so much, and with so many sarcastic interjections? Is the questioner afraid off debate?
Jeez Varney, let the man speak! Hardly a debate when continually bombard your guest with questions then don't let them answer. Fox has an agenda much?
It is refreshing to see that you folks saw this "debate" for what it was. I love Dr. Wolff. I hate the "news". Dumped Comcast and now watch no tv news. If you shop wisely, UA-cam will keep you informed.
Richard on Fox! Wow! Cool! :) Glad to see Professor Wolff getting some real major exposure here. Varney is no match at all of course...
Wow, he tried to bait you multiple times!
Well spoken, good job!!
Stuart Varney's rhetoric is a prime example of a career and education spent seeing data and information come in and constantly drawing the wrong conclusion.
"The richest hundreds or so people have more wealth combined than the bottom half of the population of the planet. That's the level of inequality that you have to go back to the ancient Pharaohs to see'. Richard Wolff.
And what was the system of the Pharaohs? Slavery.
I'm a capitalist myself, but It's obvious that Mr. Wolff knows his stuff.
No More War
wow prof, you're such a patient man. Respect
Take away his stock and make all his buissnises co-ops. Do that to al companies and the start to nationalize the necessary industries (health and so on).tax the rich at a high price and invest in education.that is how you start socialism (not state capitalism)
That is literally state capitalism though
Lunarwolff more like state sydeclism but you still need to remove the market and all that other stuff
Yep, that is what it takes to start socialism: steal what capitalism created, then live off the capital. Except, eventually, you run out of other people's money. Then you all starve equally.
κομμουνισμός και δημοκρατία And then starving.
Cuba’s caloric intake per capita isn20th in the world even with an inhuman american embargo. Many Eastern European countries have yet to reach the level of prosperity they enjoyed under the soviet union
Real interviews and debates like this are the good thing about Fox and sets them apart from CNN and MSNBC. Before and during the primaries I would regularly go to Fox for interviews and coverage of Bernie. So glad Professor Wolff is getting news coverage!
Let the man speak !
Jeff Bezos net-worth then (2017): $91 billion
Jeff Bezos net-worth now (Nov. 2020): $193.4 billion
I'm surprised Varney actually knew what Marxism was
He didn't, and still doesn't.
@@Camcolito They know how dangerous of an idea it is, so they never take it seriously. Its the same way feudal lords couldn't fathom capitalism
@@yungcoolie A good analogy.
Everyone does
It's the thing thats failed and created misery death destruction for over 100 yrs
Everyone knows that
Except Marxists lol
wow, you've got to give that chowder head varney some props for letting richard d wolff on their show, watching varney squirm and protest is quite entertaining.
Great interview.
Bezos accumulated social debt or dollars, currency from the social construct of accepted currency for trade. Like Richard states, he accumulated all his currency from using currency as a commodity, and not as a strict use of currency as a way of ensuring the trade of goods. Bezos taxes the labor of all involved and people are aghast when someone wants to do it to him. Amazing.
>Calling Single-payer Socialism
Like Dr. Wolff, nobody knows what the future will bring and nothing is inevitable. But I am hopeful that socialism will succeed. Young people are finding out that they can't expect anything from capitalism except crushing student debt and a future less bright than what their parents had.Why would abybody want to dedend a system like that?
"I went to the London School Of Economics in the 60's" = "I want to show you some ideas I did for our new logo in MS Paint"
Prof. Wolff lets assume you are selling your books to public. Should you be extra taxed from your sales because as you say "not to tax work but profit"? Or socialists want to heavily tax only people they do not like like in your example Jeff Bazos? What if he is so cleaver and hard working he deserves his profits? According to you it is not fair. Why? Because you are not that successful? I have no problem with huge profits of individuals or corporations unless they do not meddle with government. If worker is not satisfied with his employer he can find another one or he can start his own company.
Professor Wolf is cool as a cucumber & stays true through the flurry by Varney. Professor Wolf gives substance to the adage that an educated man cannot be insulted. Many thanks to Professor Wolf.
Wolff at the throat!
"Collectivist Europe" seriously...
Cheers Prof. Wolff!
Stuart Varney asked him all his questions and Wolff, hammered everyone.
This dude is so insufferable w his poor attempts to get prof Wolff to say redistribution
Professor Wolff held his own even though the interviewer was interrupting him... Good job... He should take issue with being interrupted... It's rude, and a sign that the interviewer is uncomfortable and does not want to give the guest time to do what he's there to do- have a discussion...
Revolution, yes, as it has become what we fought against England over not too many centuries ago.
Wolfie has a good speech, very good!
The minute you opposed Universal Basic Income that's when I lost interest in what you were proposing.
Communism died, Capitalism is dying....maybe next we can try the combination of both.
Maybe balance is key to everything in life, maybe? I don't know. Maybe it's a crazy idea.
Thank you prof. Wolff for dealing with these bourgeois hosts on FOX
“Capitalism hasn’t been doing a very good job” So let’s try a system that has been a total failure throughout history!
@Wubbu Dippys By spending money on the military you are spending money on education, technology, job training, and anti-poverty programs. So be careful about criticizing military expenditures
"...to hear ME out"... of course. That's why you have professors and other guests... so they can hear YOU out.
Wolfff IS A BEAST@!!@!!!
Well done proffessor is the second part of this Available?
Richard should have said, 'yeah, we'll examine your taxes and go after any offshore accounts you might have, Stewey.'
Kudos to Varney for allowing Prof. Wolff to explain his views before immediately jumping to the traditional Faux[NOT]News ploy of filibustering the guest's answers before he can explain them. True, toward the end, when Wolff begins to really tell him how it could be done, he can no longer restrain himself; nonetheless, he did give it a try. Something that neither O'Reilly nor Hannity would be capable of.
A good interviewer would let his guest talk for more than two seconds at a stretch.
Curious to hear the conversation they had about Venesuela
Varney = condescending / shallow / obstructive. Ethically compromised, posing as a realist. No real inquiry going on here, as one would expect from FOX. Credit to Wolff for getting his foot in that door. Hopefully sowing some intellectual seeds among discerning viewers.
"And how are you going to take that money off him?"
Ask the Kulaks.
Which planet would you rather live on, Planet A, where one man owned everything or Planet B, where everyone shared everything? It's easy, the planet where everything is shared by all and no one is starving and killing each other trying to survive.
When this guy was a student l was paying tax so he could study free, now he's against it, what a hypocrit.
where can i see the rest of this broadcast?
A discussion has begun! The interviewer is at least civil and allows the dialogue even though it was still on the surface of a real discussion!
The interviewer gave Prof Wolff a good counter argument which will appeal to Americans indoctrinated with toy-town capitalist economics jargon - even the ones who are poor. Getting through the indoctrination will be a struggle for D@W.
Towards the end he wouldn't let Wolff string a proper sentence together, because if he had the opportunity to simply explain the labour theory of value in simple terms, even Fox viewers would agree with it.
This IS something.
I only watched this for Richard D. Wolff... screw Fox! You rock Mr. Wolff
😂 that guy got so excited!!! He's not been engaged intellectually for a while the glow on his face!
I'll say it, I like socialism, I like having this idea of sharing risks and expenses and transparency.
In a total capitalized society, a person owning land could do whatever that person wants within the land, making rules, setting up security, taking rants. Then how is that different from Kingdom?
Nice job Rick
Yikes... You can see how flustered and confused the host was near the end of the clip. What a total embarrassment.
Professor Wolff's primary point is the necessity of a healthy debate and critique of capitalism. Varney then proceeds to interrupt Wolff after every sentence. Apparently Varney does not believe that capitalism can withstand that debate.
"Debate." - Capitalist side interrupts a lot