If it was a classic car in poor condition that was refurbished, it would be worth more money. Why is it the opposite with vintage watches? Give me a refurbished vintage watch any day.
Hey, thanks for this interesting question. There is no universal rule that says an unrestored Classic Car will always cost more than a restored one. The price of a Classic Car and vintage watches depends on several factors, including the model, condition, rarity, and market demand. An unrestored Classic Car may be attractive to collectors and enthusiasts looking for originality and authenticity, the same goes for vintage watches. Such vehicles are often referred to as "barn finds" because they have been stored in barns or garages for years and have retained their original condition. There is nothing wrong with buying a refurbished watch. As mentioned in the video, the big problem is that this point is often concealed in order to make a bigger profit. And with this video, we want to give everyone who is interested in vintage watches a guide that they can use before buying their next watch :)
@@GoldammerVintageWatches Yes, but my question was, why is it different with watches? No one can explain this. I took my Omega 53 to my watchmaker and asked him to re-lume the hands. He said, if I do that, it would devalue the watch. I said, I've had that watch for 55 years and I will never sell it. I look after my watches.
When a watch is refurbished, parts may be replaced or restored to bring it to a better condition. However, this can compromise the originality of the watch and deter potential collectors or enthusiasts who are looking for examples that are as pristine as possible. Furthermore, a refurbished vintage watch may raise questions about authenticity. There are cases where watches have been restored with counterfeit parts or components. Such modifications can significantly reduce the value of a watch, as collectors and connoisseurs value originality and authenticity. But if you like to re-lume your Omega you should do so, no matter what your watchmaker or others say.
@@GoldammerVintageWatches So, you buy a completely original watch in working order, then two weeks later it stops because the hair-spring is broken and needs to be replaced. Do you have a new hairspring and keep it running, or do you put the watch away in a draw and never wear it, because it has to be original?
@@Rog5446 I imagine the difference is that a hairspring is a 'consumable' - just like the tyres or air filter on a car, so not really comparable to, for example, replacing the entire movement in a watch (akin to changing the engine in a classic car). If it's necessary to function, it's done, but obviously this would seriously hurt the value as a collectable item.
Very informative! I'm very much in the minority in that as long as the seller is honest about the condition and the quality of the restoration, and am perfectly fine buying a vintage piece in non-original condition. I'm coming from the background of playing rebuilt vintage pianos all the time, which is a very pleasurable experience, and in the case of most pre-war Steinways, for example, is a necessary process in order to have them in any sort of playable state.
Thank you very much! Please don't get me wrong, there is nothing wrong with buying a restored watch, but many watches are offered online as original although they are not. You can lose a lot of money and nerves :D
@@GoldammerVintageWatches Absolutely! Had a bad experience when first getting into vintage watches with a dealer who misrepresented the condition of a particular piece. You're doing everyone a very valuable service with this video--danke!
Much thanks buddy! Yes it's just like sports, one question but ten different opinions. But I still think it's important to listen carefully to each opinion, but then make up your own mind with all the information.
Thank you! Great stuff. Your videos are always really helpful. I wasn't sure about the Omega either, but I think there is one more clue there: In the macro shots, you can see that the applied indices don't always align well with the printed outer indices. Especially at the 10 o' clock position, the applied index is quite a bit "off" the straight line that should connect it with the printed one.
Does cleaning your dial count as refacing? It's hard to tell. Surely if you see black speckles or dirt you would take the opportunity to give it a quick wipe next time it's out of it's case.
Indeed difficult to tell, I personally wouldn’t call a quick wipe to remove dirt as refinished. That being said, if no one can see that the dial was cleaned, then it wasn't!
Much appreciated! so at least tenfold magnification (but then you still see the whole dial). To properly see details, the magnifier needs at least a twentyfold magnification:)
Having at least a basic understanding of the cliché printing process is very important in assessing the originality of a watch indeed. I have seen so many 60s Heuers declared as original where the dial has clearly either not been cliché printed or where letters have been touched up.
I had my grandpa's 1950s watch sent for a service a little while ago. tragically the dial was completely ruined everything was rubbed off and was a mess. so i chose to get it re-dialed. by a professional who has been doing this sort of stuff for years. I told them to get it back to a presentable level. it was not perfect as the font of the dial text was not correct however it was good to see it in not in such a sad state, it was a not rare but not well documented vintage brand that used like what seemed a million different fonts and logos in there time so they did what they could to the best of their ability. where i am not all for redials 100 percent there are reasons when you should.
Thanks for sharing this story with us. We definitely don't want you to misunderstand us with the video. There is absolutely nothing wrong with refinishing dials of your own watches or buying vintage watches with refinished dials. We just don't want watches to be sold as completely original and untouched when they are not. :-)
Hi. Ive just finish watching this video that you put together, and Ive notice that I have the same Omega watch with the Honey comb dial finish...How can I send a photo of it as the Honey Comb is different form the watch you are showing...? Steven
I guess my question is why do old watches get re-dialed in the first place ? there may be legitimate reasons like repairing damage, questionable reasons like changing the color for personal taste, and illegitimate reasons like imitating a different watch, are there other reasons ?, and I guess the problem here is that without knowing the history of the watch you probably can't know the why
I understand what you mean. Basically, you can say that the owner of a watch can and may do anything he wants to it - be it for aesthetic reasons or to become more similar to another watch. We made this video to prevent customers from being ripped off. Unfortunately, there are many black sheep in the watch world (as in any other industry) who buy watches with dials in poor or less than perfect condition and then tamper with them to resell them in "original condition" at a higher price. Greed for profit at the expense of ignorance.
@@GoldammerVintageWatches yes, have to appreciate what I learned from you, not having tried to buy any watch yet, I guess I wasn't aware there is such a problem.
I just cannot clearly understand the difference between radio and trizium because of the rapidly term it could be variable maybe? is there a more clear evidence in order to be sure?
Hey there, maybe it becomes a little too short in this context . We already uploaded a full video about this topic ( Radioactive Lume) a few month ago :)
@@GoldammerVintageWatches Ja, vielleicht einfach nur Glück. Wobei es bei der Rolex such etwas offensichtlich ist, wenn man schon nen paar mehr Uhren gesehen hat
I have to agree with you absolutely. There is nothing wrong with a professionally refurbished vintage watch. But the big problem is that this fact is often concealed in order to make an even higher profit. That's why we decided to make this video :)
I actually loved the video and learned a lot from it ! And your right sometimes people try to offer something that is refinished like new old stock and that’s a big issue , not ethical for sure
A meticulous redial may add value to watch whose dial is so deteriorated as to render it too unattractive to wear. Hand painted letters with high precision is a greater demonstration of skill than machine printed letters. Collectors may prefer an original worn dial. Those that actually wear their watches, prefer an attractive dial.
The point about the lume is not applicable always. I have watches which I'm 100% certain have tritium lume and they can be charged by uv light and get dark again slowly. On the other hand there are radium watches which don't react to uv light at all becaue the radium has destroyed the lumnious material over the years. The only way to be certain about radium is a geiger counter.
@@GoldammerVintageWatches ua-cam.com/video/S6qHBSmUNXM/v-deo.htmlsi=srR4k6ksDq1ccahb&t=129 At 2:09 The bottom of the A in the OMEGA logo appears to have ink smearing.
I totally understand how refinishing can affect the value of a vintage watch. However, for my own personal collection, I dont like patina. To each their own, but I'd prefer a restored piece. The same goes with cars and the whole rat rod trend. I don't understand people who keep the rust and dents and just put a protective coating over the rust.
Good video, with some accurate comments, however unless you are a dial artisan its near impossible recognising a previously restored dial, which is evident as the omega displayed on your website landing page is not original and has with absolutely certainty been restored.
A good thing to do is comparing them with other dials/watches you find online. It's really easy for the average person to tell if minute markers don't line up, but hard to tell if fonts are correct unless you have other images to compare it to. Not just dials... I just bought a Omega Constellation off of a friend that had two of them to sell. On the one I picked, the dial, hands, crystal with Omega logo, etc... all were right. The lacquer was starting to craze in places, but Internet photos showed me that could be common with these watches. The other had gold hands on a steel watch, and the hands didn't match, AND the seconds hand had a red arrow head. Like you said, one look and knew something was wrong.
No!! I only made the video because there are some sellers who pretend that the dial is original and therefore charge higher prices. If a seller says that the dial is no longer original, asks a corresponding price and you are fine with it, that's perfectly okay! :-)
@@GoldammerVintageWatches Just been looking at two my black black dialed watches from the 1960’s, one was a Verity, the others a Royce, both have had little use, think the dials were original on close inspection, although an expert would know for sure.
If it was a classic car in poor condition that was refurbished, it would be worth more money. Why is it the opposite with vintage watches? Give me a refurbished vintage watch any day.
Hey, thanks for this interesting question. There is no universal rule that says an unrestored Classic Car will always cost more than a restored one. The price of a Classic Car and vintage watches depends on several factors, including the model, condition, rarity, and market demand.
An unrestored Classic Car may be attractive to collectors and enthusiasts looking for originality and authenticity, the same goes for vintage watches. Such vehicles are often referred to as "barn finds" because they have been stored in barns or garages for years and have retained their original condition.
There is nothing wrong with buying a refurbished watch. As mentioned in the video, the big problem is that this point is often concealed in order to make a bigger profit. And with this video, we want to give everyone who is interested in vintage watches a guide that they can use before buying their next watch :)
@@GoldammerVintageWatches Yes, but my question was, why is it different with watches? No one can explain this. I took my Omega 53 to my watchmaker and asked him to re-lume the hands. He said, if I do that, it would devalue the watch. I said, I've had that watch for 55 years and I will never sell it. I look after my watches.
When a watch is refurbished, parts may be replaced or restored to bring it to a better condition. However, this can compromise the originality of the watch and deter potential collectors or enthusiasts who are looking for examples that are as pristine as possible.
Furthermore, a refurbished vintage watch may raise questions about authenticity. There are cases where watches have been restored with counterfeit parts or components. Such modifications can significantly reduce the value of a watch, as collectors and connoisseurs value originality and authenticity.
But if you like to re-lume your Omega you should do so, no matter what your watchmaker or others say.
@@GoldammerVintageWatches So, you buy a completely original watch in working order, then two weeks later it stops because the hair-spring is broken and needs to be replaced. Do you have a new hairspring and keep it running, or do you put the watch away in a draw and never wear it, because it has to be original?
@@Rog5446 I imagine the difference is that a hairspring is a 'consumable' - just like the tyres or air filter on a car, so not really comparable to, for example, replacing the entire movement in a watch (akin to changing the engine in a classic car). If it's necessary to function, it's done, but obviously this would seriously hurt the value as a collectable item.
Goldammer, the UA-cam watch channel we need but don't deserve...
Haha thanks a million!
Love the channel, I've been binge watching for days 😂!
You deserve waaaaay more subscribers
Haha 😂 much thanks man!!
Es steckt so unfassbar viel Liebe in Euren Videos! Mega gut und vielen Dank!😊
Schön das es dir gefallen hat :) stecken drei Wochen Arbeit drin 😅
Sieht man - und hab alles daran geliebt 😅
Das ist mein Lohn! :D hab nen tolles Wochenende
Very informative! I'm very much in the minority in that as long as the seller is honest about the condition and the quality of the restoration, and am perfectly fine buying a vintage piece in non-original condition. I'm coming from the background of playing rebuilt vintage pianos all the time, which is a very pleasurable experience, and in the case of most pre-war Steinways, for example, is a necessary process in order to have them in any sort of playable state.
Thank you very much! Please don't get me wrong, there is nothing wrong with buying a restored watch, but many watches are offered online as original although they are not. You can lose a lot of money and nerves :D
@@GoldammerVintageWatches Absolutely! Had a bad experience when first getting into vintage watches with a dealer who misrepresented the condition of a particular piece. You're doing everyone a very valuable service with this video--danke!
Im happy you’re enjoyed it!
Great video Felix! Such a big concern to so many and lots of uneducated opinions out there!
Much thanks buddy! Yes it's just like sports, one question but ten different opinions. But I still think it's important to listen carefully to each opinion, but then make up your own mind with all the information.
@@GoldammerVintageWatches 🙏
Thank you! Great stuff. Your videos are always really helpful.
I wasn't sure about the Omega either, but I think there is one more clue there: In the macro shots, you can see that the applied indices don't always align well with the printed outer indices. Especially at the 10 o' clock position, the applied index is quite a bit "off" the straight line that should connect it with the printed one.
Good one!! Yes it is indeed a little lower at 10, the devil is in the detail 😈
You really has a very good taste too.
Thanks kindly 🙌
Does cleaning your dial count as refacing? It's hard to tell. Surely if you see black speckles or dirt you would take the opportunity to give it a quick wipe next time it's out of it's case.
Indeed difficult to tell, I personally wouldn’t call a quick wipe to remove dirt as refinished. That being said, if no one can see that the dial was cleaned, then it wasn't!
Great video! Can you, please, tell the brand and model of that magnifying glass that you use in this video? Thank you!
Can you link the exact moment in the vid please
The same tool was used at 3:36, 8:41 and in other moments of this video
Can you send me a message on instagram (goldammer.me). I’m back in the office tomorrow and send you some pictures 💪
wow good to know amazing video! just a question. what kind of magnifying loupes do you guys use? what is "normal" X to have?
Much appreciated! so at least tenfold magnification (but then you still see the whole dial). To properly see details, the magnifier needs at least a twentyfold magnification:)
Very informative thank you so much!
Thanks for your kind feedback!!
This is a fantastic video. Thank you for sharing your knowledge.
Thanks for your feedback ✨
very helpful, thanks!
Thanks kindly ✊✊
Having at least a basic understanding of the cliché printing process is very important in assessing the originality of a watch indeed. I have seen so many 60s Heuers declared as original where the dial has clearly either not been cliché printed or where letters have been touched up.
I had my grandpa's 1950s watch sent for a service a little while ago. tragically the dial was completely ruined everything was rubbed off and was a mess. so i chose to get it re-dialed. by a professional who has been doing this sort of stuff for years. I told them to get it back to a presentable level. it was not perfect as the font of the dial text was not correct however it was good to see it in not in such a sad state, it was a not rare but not well documented vintage brand that used like what seemed a million different fonts and logos in there time so they did what they could to the best of their ability.
where i am not all for redials 100 percent there are reasons when you should.
Thanks for sharing this story with us. We definitely don't want you to misunderstand us with the video. There is absolutely nothing wrong with refinishing dials of your own watches or buying vintage watches with refinished dials. We just don't want watches to be sold as completely original and untouched when they are not. :-)
🙏
Amen.
Hi. Ive just finish watching this video that you put together, and Ive notice that I have the same Omega watch with the Honey comb dial finish...How can I send a photo of it as the Honey Comb is different form the watch you are showing...? Steven
Hi Steven, just contact us via Instagram ✊
@@GoldammerVintageWatches Bummer.. I dont use instagram... can I send you an email?
I guess my question is why do old watches get re-dialed in the first place ? there may be legitimate reasons like repairing damage, questionable reasons like changing the color for personal taste, and illegitimate reasons like imitating a different watch, are there other reasons ?, and I guess the problem here is that without knowing the history of the watch you probably can't know the why
I understand what you mean. Basically, you can say that the owner of a watch can and may do anything he wants to it - be it for aesthetic reasons or to become more similar to another watch. We made this video to prevent customers from being ripped off. Unfortunately, there are many black sheep in the watch world (as in any other industry) who buy watches with dials in poor or less than perfect condition and then tamper with them to resell them in "original condition" at a higher price. Greed for profit at the expense of ignorance.
@@GoldammerVintageWatches yes, have to appreciate what I learned from you, not having tried to buy any watch yet, I guess I wasn't aware there is such a problem.
I totally agree with you!
Amen.
I just cannot clearly understand the difference between radio and trizium because of the rapidly term it could be variable maybe? is there a more clear evidence in order to be sure?
Hey there, maybe it becomes a little too short in this context . We already uploaded a full video about this topic ( Radioactive Lume) a few month ago :)
Hatte es von Anfang an richtig😂💪🏻
Auch die Omega? 🧐 nicht schlecht!! Du bist eingestellt 🤣
@@GoldammerVintageWatches Ja, vielleicht einfach nur Glück. Wobei es bei der Rolex such etwas offensichtlich ist, wenn man schon nen paar mehr Uhren gesehen hat
Da hast du wohl recht, mit Erfahrung ist es ne sichere Kiste.
Awesome video! Thanks so much for sharing.
Im glad you enjoyed it! Thanks 🙏
I really enjoy your informative videos on these fine vintage pieces. Would you consider an overview on vintage Certina?
Thank you for your videos!
Thanks a bunch!! Definitely, let’s see if we buy a Certina in future:)
Are professionally refinished dials really that bad, if you know that's what you are buying?
No, if you’re know what you’re buying that’s absolutely fine 👍
If it’s done well, does it matter ? Obviously originality is king, but a well done redial is perfectly fine for a personal collection
I have to agree with you absolutely. There is nothing wrong with a professionally refurbished vintage watch. But the big problem is that this fact is often concealed in order to make an even higher profit. That's why we decided to make this video :)
I actually loved the video and learned a lot from it ! And your right sometimes people try to offer something that is refinished like new old stock and that’s a big issue , not ethical for sure
Much thanks! We’re glad you enjoyed it and learned something new!!
I thought the OMEGA is missing the (beveled) "6"
Nooo 😅
Don't miss. Be happy.
A meticulous redial may add value to watch whose dial is so deteriorated as to render it too unattractive to wear. Hand painted letters with high precision is a greater demonstration of skill than machine printed letters.
Collectors may prefer an original worn dial. Those that actually wear their watches, prefer an attractive dial.
Agreed! 👍
That was good. Thank you
You’re welcome 😇
Thanks for that, some very usesfull info !
Thanks for your kind feedback 🙏
The point about the lume is not applicable always. I have watches which I'm 100% certain have tritium lume and they can be charged by uv light and get dark again slowly. On the other hand there are radium watches which don't react to uv light at all becaue the radium has destroyed the lumnious material over the years.
The only way to be certain about radium is a geiger counter.
On the Omega, does my eye fool me in seeing the 12 hour mark where the 2 is slightly off a few degrees ? Your training in this video was excellent.
There looks to be paint dripping off the 'A' in the Omega dial. Is that the case?
Pls link the exact shot :)
@@GoldammerVintageWatches ua-cam.com/video/S6qHBSmUNXM/v-deo.htmlsi=srR4k6ksDq1ccahb&t=129
At 2:09
The bottom of the A in the OMEGA logo appears to have ink smearing.
Is it that bad if the watch is refinished? Is it a possibility that buyers can't accept tye watch Down the line?
No it’s definitely not bad! But many sellers hide the fact that the watch is refinished
I agree. I much prefer a professionally restored dial.
🙏
Excellent help, many thanks! I’ll check ou5 your other videos.
Id guess both dials have been refinished just on the basis they look suspiciously clean!
The “we have also eaten shit once or twice” made me crack up
You can't get better without making mistakes :D
Wonderful video and comment answers. The main thing this video does for me is to give me confidence in this dealer. Thank you.
Mich appreciated 🙏 we’re glad you enjoy our content!
I totally understand how refinishing can affect the value of a vintage watch. However, for my own personal collection, I dont like patina. To each their own, but I'd prefer a restored piece. The same goes with cars and the whole rat rod trend. I don't understand people who keep the rust and dents and just put a protective coating over the rust.
Absolutely agree in case with vintage cars. In contrast, I absolutely love patina on vintage watches. But as you say, to each their own 😄🙌🙏
Lovin the hat Hank, yeeehaw!
The Hank? 😅
@@GoldammerVintageWatches Seriously, the nonsense even a beginner observes in the vintage space boggles the mind.
James Bond? The 007?
@@joaoalbertodosanjosgomes1536 BlondE, licenced to thrill......005
Good video, with some accurate comments, however unless you are a dial artisan its near impossible recognising a previously restored dial, which is evident as the omega displayed on your website landing page is not original and has with absolutely certainty been restored.
Thanks for your comment, but you’re wrong. However, opinions differ and you have yours. 🙏
I'd want uv lighted pics
What’s the reference for that Rolex it’s very nice
Which one exactly?
@@GoldammerVintageWatches the gold oyster with the black strap
🎉🎉🎉🎉 🎉 awesome lesson and knowledge sharing. Thank you 😊👍🏻
You’re welcome ☺️
In watches like in cars don't buy a repaired watch.
You can buy a repaired watch, but it has to stated in the offer!
you're a genius ! thank you !
Hehe thanks 😊
A good thing to do is comparing them with other dials/watches you find online. It's really easy for the average person to tell if minute markers don't line up, but hard to tell if fonts are correct unless you have other images to compare it to. Not just dials... I just bought a Omega Constellation off of a friend that had two of them to sell. On the one I picked, the dial, hands, crystal with Omega logo, etc... all were right. The lacquer was starting to craze in places, but Internet photos showed me that could be common with these watches. The other had gold hands on a steel watch, and the hands didn't match, AND the seconds hand had a red arrow head. Like you said, one look and knew something was wrong.
Indeed! When the gut feeling enters the game 😊
Amen.
I'm new to your channel if a dial is refinished is it a deal breaker ?
No!! I only made the video because there are some sellers who pretend that the dial is original and therefore charge higher prices. If a seller says that the dial is no longer original, asks a corresponding price and you are fine with it, that's perfectly okay! :-)
Thank you 🙏@@GoldammerVintageWatches
Is the omega you show redial?
Which one exactly?
amazing content
Thanks!!
Просто загляденье ❤🎉
😊💪
Excellent 👌
Thanks so much!!
@@GoldammerVintageWatches Just been looking at two my black black dialed watches from the 1960’s, one was a Verity, the others a Royce, both have had little use, think the dials were original on close inspection, although an expert would know for sure.
I just recently discovered your channel and really enjoy watching your episodes
Much thanks for your kind feedback!!
thanks bro
You’re welcome!
I am not your brother.
@@joaoalbertodosanjosgomes1536 yeap